History of WWI Primer 031: Italian Carcano Carbines Documentary

last time we covered the Italian Carcano rifle which turned out to be pretty okay this time let's look at what happens when you take that light simple action and shorten it you hi I'm Matthias and this is the Italian mosquito Modelo 1891 sounds delicious but it's actually a carbine let's go take a look in the white box with a length of just 36 and a quarter inches and a weight of not even seven pounds this is a handy handy carbine perhaps the easiest of the war it still chambers the 6.5 by 52 millimeter cartridge still taking six still an N block last time we covered the mold ello 1891 Carcano in detail so if you're curious about the action or anything that has to do with this gun other than the carbines you need to go back and watch that episode now you can watch this one afterwards otherwise it's not going to be quite as filling for you and your life will be that much less lived anyway if you are caught up let's get into it now obviously that big long rifle wasn't suitable for cavalry but you may not be aware that the Italians were not nearly as obsessed with horses as the rest of Europe you see way back in 1836 they had as the kingdom of Sardinia a region within Italy at that time before the complete unification Sardinia they couldn't afford to run cavalry up and down in and out over and under it was really expensive to maintain the horses and the people and put them on the move so they came up with an interesting alternative a corps of highly trained highly mobile infantry these particular area were trained to run and even today they jog through their parades they were also excellent marksmen and carried more ammunition and lighter gear than your average infantry finally they were encouraged to fire independently and make command-level decisions in the field instead of waiting for orders they were fast attack dudes the bersaglieri were a big part of Italian unification and stayed on after the new nation was solidified and they could be issued either a rifle or carbine depending on the role they were supposed to meet in that particular period but around the 1880s you start to see a very very big popular fad catching on and that is the safety bicycle which basically looks like what we think of as a bicycle well these things were spreading like wildfire and there was a reasonable military application here you see the bursa clay area had finally found something that could increase their range increase their speed and still eat a heck of a lot less than a horse so when Italy decided to release their first Carcano carbine in July of 1893 they did not think of it as a strictly cavalry rifle instead they simply named it the mosquito 1891 because it was going to be given to cavalry cyclists and eventually it would find its way into the hands of paratroopers that's a bit after World War one basically it displaced the bed early carbines then in service most of which were still single shot so this was a huge improvement all right let's take a closer look at just what makes this different from the rifle with a closer look we're going to see this is the same overall car no action there's no differences back here except for some slight stock shape and slings that's a moment but we do have a turndown bolt handle that's one and shorter overall length and with that short barrel comes an updated rear sight this guy works the same way folded forward we have our 300 meter folded all the way back we'll have our 450 then we'll be adjustable this time only up to 1,500 meters same markings on the barrel same way to read them everything's coming up roses so let's get to the big difference which is right up here in that bayonet lug now this is an early version which has a pinch pull and flip I'm sorry guys it's kind of pokey there we go and now whew we've got basically a twelve and a half Spyke kind of a t-shaped flat up top bridge down below this is kinda light duty but it's still perfectly threatening and I wouldn't want to be poked by one now this pinch release would prove to be a problem in the field during World War one it simply came loose too easily freeing the bayonet to flop around on the battlefield the problem was so acute that some cavalry regiments would opt for a new lever lock sometime around 1916 they were likely fitted at the armor level and are somewhat rare because a general production solution was found in a solid and simpler to use push button system a button type I just happen to have here in the form of a later m38 so looking closer harab there's our pinch style and here's our later button style so we press and then pull the bayonet away it's sort of two-handed and hard to do on camera so give me a second press pull back there we go flip around push in and we're locked and ready to go this proved to be much firmer and what appear you know toward the later stages of World War one a lot of the earlier guns would be refitted with these when they were turned in for repairs so this pinch style can be kinda rare to see put this guy aside and get back to that original 91 all right so other things to note still a game twist rifling down there like we covered in the previous episode and if you'll notice we have bayonet up here so we have no cleaning rod that is now set as a multi piece kit down in the butt plate also the hand guard was not originally applied to this rifle this is actually a modification and this gun dated in 1910 did not have a handguard when it was first produced instead this was a repair retro actively made during the First World War after problems with people burning their hands these things heat up real well overall the mosquito 1891 would serve for 1893 until 1938 when like the other car no we talked about it was replaced by the m38 series of Carcano it was replaced by essentially the same gun in 735 with a fixed rear sight that's a whole or story that I'd like to tell in one good episode when we get out of World War one production would be carried out by brassia FN a tiny beretta and garden valve rompilla although only brassia would be producing through World War 1 just to give you a bit more data let's get through the numbers of production for each of these companies we've got two hundred eighty six thousand 67 thousand two hundred twenty-three thousand sixty thousand one hundred fifty three thousand obviously with a service history all the way through World War two this was a decent firearm or at least one the Italians weren't in a hurry to replace as a matter of fact it seems troops are really liked it I mean it is absolutely light one of the lightest guns of World War one and World War two it's handy its maneuverable it fits on your back nice and easy it's not beating you up and that ammo that six-point-five it's not a shoulder kicker even when put down in a package like this but it still got enough punch this is a handy handy gun anyway this would become a national icon because we're going to see it used by the fascist militia in the interwar period and on into World War two and because of that it's also going to be copied as a scaled-down youth model gun basically a glorified cap gun that was issued through the Opera national a body LA and I am terrible at Italian but that's the Italian youth organization these were meant to sow the seeds of fascist militarism in young boys across the nation they would range from near-perfect scaled copies to tin junk by the end of World War two but they were everywhere now on the last episode which you should have watched we did cover all the details on the action so there's nothing really to animate and therefore I'm going to have to kick this straight over to May and let her put a few rounds downrange with this little darling we loaded this gun last episode so it's got a little more umph this time let's check that target nice and tight but a little high and here is beardy haha Oh anyway as much as I enjoyed this guy in the range I should probably say that this is the Italian Moscatel Modelo 1891 through a speciality another carbine let's go kick it over the light box with a similar overall length and similar overall weight this is really just as handy same six rounds same end black clip same deal guys you see not everybody who didn't want a long rifle wanted a fixed folding bayonet carbine this is a solution for just a few people what you have are people like the artillery engineers certain Alpine units you've got the Royal Navy units like those they need to have a short carbine and a regular style bayonet those are what Italy means by special Troops they're not elite and they're not special needs they're just guys that don't want a long gun and don't want a folding bayonet now we can take a closer look at this guy real quick and see how it differs from the previous Moscatel we've got our same Carcano action we've got our same carbine rear sight up to 1,500 here's what's different is this guy and they didn't just borrow straight from that rifle instead they went with a unique sort of side mounted bayonet here so what would happen and I'm sorry to say I do not have a TS bayonet with me I do have a classic long rifle Banat so if I get this out where you can see it he ain't gonna fit instead that mortise was milled to the side of the bayonet so that you would flip over the muzzle ring and then twist it on I believe what they were trying to do is put the locking force perpendicular to the thrusting force although I honestly don't see how much benefit you're getting when you're hanging it on a little yoke like this I'm not really sure what the mentality was also we no longer have that a cleaning rod folded up in the butt because there's room to have one right here that's about it for this gun although uniquely to it in 1903 when the Italians changed their powder over from the ammo only this one really it seemed needed their sights modified they shaved about half a millimeter on the front sight and that's it I can't see references to this being done to the long rifle or the other musket though so I'm not sure what made this one special for that anyway with the war surplus these guys ramped up production in 1919 all the way until much later in 1928 and in that gap they were modified repeatedly in 1920 the side mount bayonet was dropped in 1921 men ETS had their underside slings removed and filled in they were replaced with side slings in 1924 conversions began on worn-out 1891 long rifles they were chopped down to the TS standard these are easily recognized by their long rear sights in 1928 exhausting the supply of those worn out 1891 s they would produce more TS from scratch these have post 1928 dates and short carbine rear sights plus they generally have the standardized handguard and bayonet lug layout in 1929 they began Manufacturing both side and underside slings this was not however Universal considering the original TS and model 28 as essentially the same gun let's break down that production brassia was the sole producer of world war one era TS carbines with some five hundred ninety thousand made by 1919 beginning in 28 we'll start to see other manufacturers such as tyranny up to ninety thousand beretta up to 108 thousand guard own valve rompilla up to 160,000 Pietro Lorenz Adi would produce some 10,000 or so MBT would crank out nearly four K and FN a brassia would produce 79 thousand or so alright let's make up for that lack of new animation with more may once more same as before this little troublemaker did have minor feeding issues slow it down slow it down let's check that paper still a little high but time I definitely recommend a six o'clock hole with these carvings all right back to beardy neat all right uh it's really redundant for me to run through the whole story of this thing service life because it's really the same as the rest of the Carcano we've got all the way up to 1938 a 735 version with fixed sights then 6.5 comes back but still fixed sights and then blahblah blah blah blah you've got the pattern now we owe you a World War 2 style episode after we get out of World War one but specific to our parent conflict now we should mention that these guys were favored as shock troop weapons during those trench raids because it could move lightly across no-man's land and it's short handy length and standard stabby style knife bayonet means that you could drop into a trench and 360noscope like nobody's business plus you got six rounds alright we'll turn these guys both over to May now and get her opinion on using the Carcano carbines by now you should be familiar with the fact that we had to take a break to make room from give me that where do you keep getting this stuff anyway let's get Mays opinion on the Carcano carbines first I guess we got two guns here we can kind of talk about them together and apart if we need to but overall with a shortened Carcano how are you feeling about the ergonomics ok first thing I want to point out this is adorable they're both adorable they're like Tonica car no 9t ones I mean come on it's a carbine version of it it's so cute I just want to name it but no I'm sorry I'm growing out too much anyway yes it is shorter thus lighter and I just feel like this is a sense of mobility right here like I can run and gum with this so easily I feel like now as far as comparing this to what I've shot before which was you guys hopefully saw the previous episode and if you haven't go watch it stop watching this one cheaters um if you haven't seen any one episode pretty much everything's the same same sites deep v-notch love them the action still gritty thanks guys no seriously still just gritty action but it still functioned just fine the safety is still the same still have that same complaint about not pushing it in too much we'll just turn that damn old handle um Monica actions still can get mud and grit in there if I'm not too careful but you know so can't complain too much still has that straight wrist which you're not a fan of but it's okay still functions now the one big difference though you obviously can tell it's got that turndown bolt handle which I did not like actually I don't like turndown both handles just because I feel like you can't get quite enough leverage under there I feel like maybe if they've made a notch in the wood or if they milled out even a little bit of the metal made it a little bit like lighter it would have actually been easier for me to grip so I feel like if the action were suck or something like that it'd be harder to get my hands around it but other than that this was adorable this is going to be like the Jaeger pistol again anyway well here let me take the TS for a moment between the two because obviously we are very close and we are very close in length there's not going to be huge difference between either of these two in terms of performance was there anything that you noticed ergonomically that was a benefit on either one or difference or just some one that stood out so first thing I wanna point actually is this one's got a folding out bayonet which I actually kind of like the folding out bayonet idea I think it just looks neat is convenient however this one it's kind of a pain in the ass sorry curse but it doesn't really feel like it locks in this position when I put it up there's no real I guess positive walk sensation and the Banat itself is not that thick so I feel like at any point it could break off it doesn't feel that durable to me but that's just a preference thing for me I guess maybe I don't know and see what I mean total pain in the ass you got to use two hands almost to really kind of fold that down but overall it's that's kind of just on this one it's just not that great now when I'm comparing it to the TS the TS has got more wood up front so I've got a little more purchase little more room just hold my hand further out front where is this one the solid hard line guys you got it you've got it right up here to where the bayonet starts and no one's gripping that but yeah just as far as comparison the TS that's pretty much the same difference I mean the TS is a little bit lighter which is a little more convenient this one just looks meaner with the bayonet you know it's not that great but it's okay but yes about it for the difference yeah I'd agreed that the 91 carbine original that thing is iconic you can't argue it's easily recognized it it just there's something compelling about its appearance especially with the exposed barrel and the underslung bayonet but reasonably you have a lot more utility with a TS it's much more normal shooting normal grip you can choke way out if you need to if you're a big guy like me overall this is a more comfortable rifle and also if you're shooting and moving this gives you a lot more room to pick up that hot barrel and not accidentally burn yourself or get caught up on things so I agree slight difference in handling slight favor to the TS but both of them in consideration would you take either both whatever combination into battle and still feel comfortable so I mentioned before the 91 in the previous episode get if you haven't watched it go watch it was a soft yes so if that's the soft yes these two are actually gonna be a hard yes because like I said before it's shorter yes there's like 30% more recoil but that's okay I can definitely handle that on range and you saw can handle it just fine but the accuracy was still great still the fantastic science the action it's okay but everything about this it just was definitely more mobile than the 91 was so yeah these are going to be hard yeses now as far as which one I would prefer to take into battle okay again I'm sorry this is again a preference one because I like that folding but yeah I'm going to take the carbine here I'm going to take this Calvary version it is just it just looks meaner with this fold-up bayonet aesthetically it's just more pleasing to me I understand the t s has that more wood up there so it's got more purchase available to me but you know what whatever I'm going to go with my preference guys they can just deal with it at this point but there is one thing I do want to point out this anything if you don't recognize it US m1 carbine and I want to point out there's not that much of a height difference like it's just got about the same length because you can't see it on the video and the weight it's like about half a pound of difference but you know I don't have this one available to me in the war at that time whereas this one I do so this is like the bolt-action version I'm definitely gonna go with this but I guess we put this back this isn't gonna be for another year or so down the road but um yeah definitely hard yes for both of these have had to choose I stick with this carbine alright well I guess it's hard to argue with that and frankly when I shot them I found it kind of thrilling to hear 6.5 by 52 coming out of such a short barrel because suddenly a car car knows were loud and deep and throaty and they didn't burn all their powder and they made a big fireball which is probably not the most tactical advantage but I thought it was great anyway I guess that's going to wrap us up for today I hope that we've made these a little bit more lovable since they are so unloved but thanks for watching yet again and we're glad to have you later guys alright guys this is going to be an audio update because I got to put the cameras away for a couple weeks while I worked through some animation issues on the Lewis gun anyway we are ahead on patreon yet again now at two three seven six we're up another fifty sixty bucks from last time this number keeps going up thank you thank you everyone it really does help we burn it as fast as we get it in order to keep going on the show we are caching things well ahead of time so that we are prepared down the road and don't get caught with our pants down alright other than that the indiegogo that has been going on at this point for the first round of t-shirts has been a complete success as of right now we are just when I'm recording this we were just thirty dollars short of triple funding I'm quite certain by the time this episode drops that we will have beaten that and you have seen the lovely video featuring Jay that means you have now seen myself Jay May and Susie all on film wearing various disguises I hope that was to everyone's delight because that is really our core crew who gets things done on the daily now that's not everybody so please do read the credits then check in because we get a lot of help from some other people but those are the four that are in the you know immediate vicinity with the cameras with the guns with the ammo all right guys love you all bye

Channel: C&Rsenal

Views: 221,985

Keywords: firearms, guns, WWI, History, battlefield1, bf1

Id: mG3-iqICPlk

Length: 25min 17sec (1517 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 02 2016