History Buffs: The Patriot

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What I like about this guy is his willingness to accept small historical inaccuracies for the sake of a better story. He's interested in the history, but not obsessive over it.

👍︎︎ 14 👤︎︎ u/Smart_Ass_Dave 📅︎︎ Jul 12 2016 🗫︎ replies

Huge history buff here, and I enjoyed The Patriot. Oh yeah, the historical accuracy is way off, but I saw it more as a personal story about a father and his family in the face of war. Plus, Jason Isaacs looked like he was having a blast being so nasty :D

Also it gets points for having Heath.

👍︎︎ 11 👤︎︎ u/LostTheWayILikeIt 📅︎︎ Jul 12 2016 🗫︎ replies

Relatively unknown? He has more than 150k subs and had one of his videos on the front page of /r/ movies just a few days ago.

👍︎︎ 6 👤︎︎ u/Sordie 📅︎︎ Jul 13 2016 🗫︎ replies

Nah, the movie's fine. Pretty sure the American Revolution was about the forces of light versus the legions of evil. I mean, did you see Colonel Tavington salivating while he murdered those people? It's all documented in the constitution.

👍︎︎ 8 👤︎︎ u/woowoo293 📅︎︎ Jul 12 2016 🗫︎ replies

My man Nick Hodges.Used to be part of Spill.com on The Loading Bar. Good he's getting recognition

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/ryan1948 📅︎︎ Jul 13 2016 🗫︎ replies

I completely understand this guys points and agree with his views, but wasn't this film touted as historical fiction in the first place? It was never supposed to be factually accurate. It was a drama/epic film about patriotism and of course they took heavy liberties with what actually happened. The movie was made to be 2 and half hours of entertainment for American audiences, not a factual portrayal of American revolutionary history.

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/Flaccidd 📅︎︎ Jul 12 2016 🗫︎ replies

I watched the whole thing, and while it was high quality, there were no jokes in that entire 20 minute video. What did you even laugh at in this review? I'm seriously asking.

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/BLOW_UP_THE_OCEAN 📅︎︎ Jul 13 2016 🗫︎ replies

He really got his knickers in a bunch didn't he?

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/[deleted] 📅︎︎ Jul 13 2016 🗫︎ replies

The guy is good...But god is he annoying when he points something out with his sometimes seemingly snarky attitude that he assumes is fact but still in historical context is either debatable, more complicated, or a misconception. I mean watch his 300 review, his understanding on Spartan culture and society is rather limited as he makes broad assumption on what it was like even though many of his claims have been refuted as myths or exaggerations by historians.

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/Bad_Mood_Larry 📅︎︎ Jul 13 2016 🗫︎ replies
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hello and welcome history buffs my name is nick hodges and i'm finally ready to have a crack at the patriot when it comes to badly done historical films there are a few better examples it's here the hollywood's attempts to rewrite history are most obvious details are changed or flat out ignored anything that could possibly reflect badly in the united states has no appearance in this movie because that's not its objective it is however to present us a romanticized depiction of american history and to glorify american patriotism to such an extent that it patronizes the audiences intended for these are some of the things i truly hate in a film because it knowingly promotes ignorance and leaves viewers with a false impression of history this is the patriot so the film begins in 1776 right before the declaration of independence was signed it was an uneasy time and tensions were high something was happening that had never been done before the very idea of breaking away from the king and establishing a new nation was truly revolutionary but also controversial not all americans wanted independence from great britain and a line had been drawn between the rebels who believed in freedom and colonials loyal to the crown america was anything but united back then what started out as a small revolt in boston had quickly escalated into a civil war yes i said civil war from the loyalist point of view the british soldiers were legitimate government troops in fact many loyalists joined the army out of the same sense of patriotism that the rebels felt for their cause only one-third of americans actually supported independence back then but the patriot makes very little mention of this in fact i think we're only introduced to one loyalist in the whole movie and we're made to feel a certain way about him those neighbors of mine who stand against england deserve to die traitor's death just in case you didn't get it you're supposed to hate this guy he's the judas he's the traitor let's not explore his motivations his political beliefs or his reasons to fight his fellow countrymen you're supposed to dismiss him and label him as a backstabber so anyway how did this war start well if we left it to the patriot to explain if you mean by patriot am i angry about taxation without representation well yes i am should the american colonies govern themselves independently i believe they can and they should and that's generally about it for the rest of the movie they just drone on and on about freedom but freedom from what now of course taxation without representation was an important factor but this only begins to scratch the surface of a much bigger picture in 1763 the british had won a major victory at the end of the seven years war securing more land and wealth for their colonies although this left great britain in the position of being the world's first superpower it wasn't a war they wanted to fight and left them in huge debt now seeing how british subjects in america benefited the most out of this costly war with more land and more resources the government thought it was only fair that they'd be the ones to help with the bill however this would not be the case as many americans just refused to pay these new taxes surprisingly great britain didn't even collect on these new taxes they backed down time and time again until finally they had enough the famous tax on tea was the only tax they were going to enforce and that's when the colonists revolted they pressed the issue that they wanted no taxation without representation but to the british government they were already seen as british subjects and were therefore represented however i think that another factor was in play and that was the british government regulating colonial expansion in 1763 the royal proclamation line was issued that forbade settlement past the appalachian mountains this angered american settlers as coming to america and finding new land to call their own was the whole point of coming over there there's a scene in the movie that contradicts this where we see the british planning to seize new lands after the war when this war is over here in the colonies the new aristocracy will be landowners tell me about ohio but ohio wouldn't be on the agenda because the royal proclamation line reserved ohio and all lands west for native americans this was issued to reconcile with the indians for past fences and prevent future hostilities now i'm under no illusion that this would have been a permanent thing and western expansion was inevitable but having the brit scheme about it this early on is just premature at best so with no immediate opportunity for future expansion or for american representation in parliament revolution escalated quickly into war the character of benjamin martin is loosely based on several historic figures but in my opinion the most relevant one is francis marion francis marion was also known as the swamp fox and operated in south carolina during the revolutionary war his base of operations were snow's island which is located in the middle of the south carolina swamps not so like how benjamin martin operated from the old spanish mission he is generally considered to be one of the fathers of mon guerrilla warfare and his militia were brutally effective against the british but unlike martin marion was childless and did not even marry until after the war the decision made to give benjamin martin's character a family was not only to allow the audience to sympathize with him but also give him something to fight for when his son is shot by tavington it provides the catalyst for him to organize a militia and fight however these changes don't bother me it's this little scene that does bystanding order of his majesty king george all slaves of the american colonies who fight for the crown will be granted their freedom with our victory sir we're not slaves we work this land freed me well then your freed men who will have the opportunity and the privilege of fighting in the king's army aren't you that is by far the most disgusting thing i've ever heard in a historical movie no wonder benjamin martin's character is only loosely based on francis marion because francis marion was a slave owner in fact frances marion slaves ran away from his plantation to fight for the british which says a lot about the guy now just because by modern standards slavery disgusts us today doesn't mean that we should accept a retelling of history that is afraid to approach it i think i would give audiences the benefit of the doubt to accept the main protagonist if he was a slave owner never underestimate your audience they're generally sensitive intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment too right mate and what's worse is that this scene seems to be an attempt to villainize the british by having them kidnap these black workers just to oppress these poor plantation owners that the british are simply using slaves as tools of war but in another seed we see the americans do the exact same thing it says take notice by order general george washington and the continental congress all bound slaves who give minimum one year service in the continental army will be granted freedom and be paid a bounty of five shillings for each month of service did you hear that first they're gonna free them and then they're going to pay them only another six months what the hell are you gonna do with freedom can you see the difference here the gentle swelling of the music and the look of hope and determination in his eyes this has a totally different tone than the one before here the film is twisting the american proclamation of freedom to be noble and just whilst the british version is the exact opposite the truth of the matter is that when the british first declared their promise of freedom to slaves it scared the [ __ ] out of the americans so when they made their offer it was out of desperation not out of noble sentiment both sides were just as cruel in how they used and manipulated african-americans for their cause so why is the patriot bias between one side not the other especially if they're both doing the same thing i think there's one particular moment in the film that is worth looking at it's shortly after the scene when benjamin martin and his sons ambush the british convoy his son confides to his father his own personal feelings about killing the british soldiers i killed those men you did what i told you to do you did what you had to there was no wrong in it i'm glad i killed them i'm glad now i know it's not safe to jump to conclusions but i just can't shake this feeling that the patriot has a very anti-british sentiment every damn one of them redcoats deserves to die i'll kill me some redcoats where else do i get the opportunity to kill a few red coats perhaps a few wounded once when you're not looking for the love of god this is murder well in their red coats they burned it but that just could be my interpretation however the film's objective is clear and that is to villainize the brits as much as possible as antagonists they are comically portrayed to be bloodthirsty brutish thugs every conceivable negative stereotype that's attributed to the british is amplified pompous stuck up and arrogant are to name a few these rustics are so inept nearly takes the honor out of victory nearly now far be it from me to suggest that the british never committed any atrocities as in every war they were committed by both sides you only need to look at the historical figure tavington is based on banister tarleton who built up quite a reputation amongst patriot rebels as a butcher more specifically due to his involvement in the wax hall massacre in south carolina now what happened is the subject of much debate during the heat of battle continental army colonel buford raised a white flag calling for quarter at some point a musket was fired and hit halton's horse incapacitating him in a fit of rage his loyalist cavalry believing the call of surrender to be a trick charged into buford's men and cut them down including many who still tried to surrender of the 400 virginians over 100 were killed and this is where tarzan's reputation as a butcher was most prevalent the fighting and following battles grew in ferocity on both sides and tarleton's quarter became a common expression for his refusal to take prisoners he was dubbed the bloody ban for his belief in total war and was used by american propaganda to fuel british resentment in the patriot however tavington's cruelty and malice is turned up to 11. if killing prisoners of war doesn't make you hate him then surely killing children will stupid boy now i'm sure that the filmmakers will insist that these are the actions of a single man but that's not the impression left with audiences what tavington does reflects on how the characters and audience view the british see there's a difference between taking creative liberties in order to drive the plot of a historical film to simply making [ __ ] up which brings us to what is perhaps the most controversial part of the whole movie this town was given aid to benjamin martin and his rebels i wish to know his whereabouts so anyone who comes forward may be forgiven their treason very well you had your chance wait this man gives martin his men's supplies quiet he brings them to black swan by the old spanish mission this man here yes the black swamp you say by the old spanish mission thank you very much shut the doors but you said we'd be forgiven and indeed you may that's between you and god this is the moment when the patriot can no longer claim to be based on history because there is nothing in written records to suggest that the british ever burnt a church filled with civilians if anything like this would have happened it would have been burnt into the memory of every american today can you imagine the propaganda value that would have had for the patriot course back then take for example the impact of the infamous boston massacre and only five people died there probably making it the most unmasking massacre in the history of massacres so what's this movie's reason for this massacre not being common knowledge the honor is found in the end not the memes this will be forgotten no one forgets stuff like this to find anything even similar you can't even look at the american war for independence but at the second world war on june 10th 1944 a massacre took place eerily similar to the one presented in the patriot in the village of oregon segulan in france german troops came and ordered all the townsfolk to assemble the women and children were locked in the church with explosives whilst the ss took the mental nearby garages and barns to be shot in total 642 people died one of the most horrific war crimes in history and it somehow ends up inspiring a scene supposed to be set to the american war for independence it just seems like this film is so aggressive with its hateful stance against the british that it's not even trying to be subtle like this scene for example where in the final battle pedro and martin literally stabbed tavi to torture the american flag you don't have to be a symbologist to figure out what that's supposed to be about so it's no wonder that this movie stirred up so much controversy with allegations about being anti-british look if you want the brits to be the bad guys then have them do stuff we know they did he can't create the largest empire in history by being nice about it so i'm sure there's plenty of material to work with maybe have your historical epic be based on history instead of [ __ ] potential hate-mongering aside there is one final thing that needs to be addressed with the patriot now while it's not nearly as offensive as its depiction of slavery or fictional atrocities it's definitely worth at least thinking about it's pretty clear that the patriot was made to celebrate some of the best qualities america stands for today particularly its beliefs in equality if we win this war a lot of things will change the world will change they call this the new world it's not it's the same as the old but we'll have a chance to build a new world a world where all men are created equal under god equal sounds good the problem is though that this movie brings up american ideals today but not back then in 1776 the declaration of independence stated what many americans believed in and fought for we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness but unfortunately exceptions were made and the reality didn't apply to all americans most of the african-american rebels who fought for independence were never given the freedom they were promised native american indians were systematically slaughtered to the brink of extinction and one hundred thousand american loyalists were expelled from their country of birth never to see it again the true prospect of equality and civil rights would continue to be ignored well into the 20th century i have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created and only just recently have the promises of these great words been fully realized this time in regards to gay rights and i believed that discrimination because of somebody's sexual orientation or gender identity ran counter to who we are as a people and it's a violation of the basic tenets on which this nation was founded i believe that gay couples deserve the same legal rights as every other couple in this country the real truth history tells us is that independence did not automatically result in a great america it was rather the beginning of a work in progress one that is still continuing today my problem with the patriot is that it's not a true representation of american history and it's quite clear that it's not because they didn't do their research because the battle scenes the sets and the costumes are extremely well done what is wrong is when filmmakers distort and fabricate history when they find things they don't like shaping the truth to be what they believe it should be and by doing so promote misconceptions and ignorance to audiences everywhere well that about wraps it up my name is nick hodges and thanks for watching history buffs and remember if you like the show help the channel grow don't forget to hit that like and subscribe button and let me know in the comment section what you thought about the patriot and of course what historical movie should i review next in the meantime check out the history buffs twitter and facebook pages for new updates until then i'll see you next time you
Info
Channel: undefined
Views: 2,528,006
Rating: 4.5091825 out of 5
Keywords: History Buffs, The Patriot, Francis Marion (Military Commander), Banastre Tarleton (Military Person), American Independence, American Revolutionary War (Military Conflict), American Revolution (Event), The Royal Proclomation Line of 1763, History (TV Genre), Historical Accuracy, Historical Innacuracy
Id: gBuvmidN8Dc
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 20min 32sec (1232 seconds)
Published: Wed Sep 23 2015
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