PERSPECTIVE REPORTING LIVE FROM THE COURTHOUSE IN MANHATTAN WHERE HIS FATE WAS SEALED BY THE JURY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE WANT TO BRING IN THE FORMER ACTING U.S. SOLICITOR GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES NEIL KATCHEL HERE WITH RACHEL, NICOLE, CHRIS AND ANDREW. NEIL, MAY 30th, 2024, DONALD J. TRUMP CONVICTED ON 34 COUNTS. WHAT DOES THIS VERDICT MEAN? >> I THINK ABOUT IT IN THREE WORDS. 34 FOR 45. 34 COUNTS FOR THE 45th FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. IT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE IN OUR HISTORY, AND THESE ARE FELONY COUNTS. THESE AREN'T SLAPS ON THE WRIST. THEY'RE NOT MISDEMEANORS. THESE ARE NOT MINOR THINGS AS THE PROSECUTOR STEINGLASS SAID IN HIS CLOSING, DONALD TRUMP MAY HAVE BEEN ELECTED PRESIDENT BECAUSE OF THESE CRIMES. BECAUSE OF HIS HIDING OF HIS CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS AND THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. I'M NOT A LAWYER. BUT I CAN TELL YOU WHAT THIS MEANS ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW. I MEAN, MY PARENTS CAME TO THIS COUNTRY. BECAUSE OF THE IDEA THAT NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. IT CAN HOLD SOMEONE TO ACCOUNT NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE. AND THIS JURY HAS NOW DECIDED THAT. AND, ARI, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IS THEY DECIDED THAT AND TRUMP WAS GUILTY AGAINST THE MOST DIFFICULT STANDARD FOR THE PROSECUTION TO SHOW IN ALL OF AMERICAN LAW. THEY HAD TO SHOW BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. THEY HAD TO BRING IN ALL 12 JURORS. I KNOW HOW HARD THAT IS. I DID THAT IN THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER WITH MY TEAM. THAT'S A SCARY STANDARD TO DO. HERE IT WAS MET AS IT WAS IN THE FLOYD CASE. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A -- SUCH A TOUGH STANDARD, ARI. IT'S KIND OF LIKE FAILING KINDERGARTEN. IF YOU ARE FACING A JURY TRIAL, YOU'VE GOT TO KIND OF TRY TO FAIL A JURY TRIAL IF YOU ARE A DEFENDANT. YOU HAVE EVERYTHING GOING FOR YOU, AND YET TRUMP MANAGED TO DO THAT. >> YEAH. >> I THINK THE LAST THING I WOULD SAY, CHRIS'S POINT ABOUT -- CHRIS HAYES'S POINT ABOUT THE FAITH IN THE SYSTEM IS RIGHT. I THINK THIS SHOWS THAT THE SYSTEM WORKS, BUT I SUSPECT TRUMP'S NEXT MOVE WILL BE, AS IT ALWAYS IS, TO DENIGRATE THE SYSTEM, TO ATTACK THE INSTITUTIONS, TO ATTACK THE PROSECUTION, TO ATTACK THE JURY SYSTEM. DON'T POP OUR CHAMPAIGN CORKS YET BECAUSE TRUMP'S GOING TO RUN AGAINST THE SYSTEM AND OUR JOB AS LAWYERS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW THAT SYSTEM WORKS AND HOW IT WAS -- JUSTICE WAS DONE TODAY. >> NEIL KATCHAL WEIGHING IN HERE FOR THE FIRST TIME. WE APPRECIATE YOU DOING THAT. THANK YOU. WE'RE BACK WITH OUR FULL PANEL. NEIL MENTIONED WHAT CHRIS HAS SAID. AS WELL, NICOLE, YOU THINK ABOUT WE'RE MOMENTS AWAY FROM ALVIN BRAGG, THE D.A. WHO BROUGHT THIS CASE WHO WAS GOING TO BE CONTROVERSIAL EITHER WAY. I WOULD NOTE IF HIS NAME IS NOT SUPER FAMILIAR, IF YOU ARE WATCHING AND CAN'T EVEN CONJURE EXACTLY WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE, THAT IS BECAUSE HE HAS FOLLOWED THE JACK SMITH PLAYBOOK OR THE BOB MULLER PLAYBOOK BEFORE THAT. D.A. BRAGG SPOKE ONCE REGARDING THIS CASE WAS WHEN THEY ANNOUNCED THE PROSECUTION. IT WAS VERY SPARE. SO SPARE HE WAS CRITICIZED FOR NOT ELABORATING FURTHER WHERE HE LET HIS TEAM, THE IS SIS TANT D.A.'S DO THE TALKING. THEY RELEASED ONE TWEET WHICH THEY SAID GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS. VERY BUSINESS LIKE. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE WILL HEAR FROM THE D.A. >> HE'S BEEN UNDERESTIMATED. HE WANTS TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT OTHER THINGS. DONALD TRUMP RELIES ON AND PROJECTS ON TO EVERYONE ELSE WHAT IS INSIDE OF HIM AND WHAT'S INSIDE OF HIM IS A POSSESSED AND OBSESSED PARTISAN ACTOR. ALVIN BRAGG JUST DOESN'T FIT THE MOLD. HE DID THIS BECAUSE THE FACTS AND THE LAW SUPPORTED THIS. AGAIN, NOT IN THE TIME LINE THAT A LOT OF HIS SUPPORTERS AND DETRACTORS WOULD HAVE LIKED. SOME PEOPLE WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN THE CASE THAT POMERANZ INVESTIGATED GO TO TRIAL MUCH SOONER THAN ALVIN BRAGG BROUGHT IT. BUT HE WAS CONVINCED. I THINK THERE WAS REVERSE ENGINEERING AND METICULOUS CORROBORATION IF YOU LOOKED AT EVERY WITNESS AND EVERY TRANSCRIPT. IT'S A LITTLE MORE CLEAR AND WE'LL ASK HIM, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT HE WAS DOING. >> THE ALVIN BRAGG ACHIEVEMENT HERE, ANDREW, BEFORE WE GOT THE JURY'S VERDICT YOU WERE SAYING, IF THERE IS ONE GUILTY VERDICT AMONG THESE 34 COUNTS, THAT IS A VICTORY FOR THE PROSECUTION. THAT IS -- THAT COUNTS AS A CONVICTION AND THAT IS WHAT THE PROSECUTION IS AIMING FOR. WHEN IT CAME IN AS ALL 34, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING MORE THAN A VICTORY FOR THE PROSECUTION. IT'S A VINDICATION OF THEIR APPROACH. AND THEIR APPROACH HERE WAS METHODICAL. OBVIOUSLY WE SAW WHAT THE DEFENSE'S APPROACH WAS. WE SAW THE PROSECUTION'S HANDLING WHICH IS EVERYTHING MICHAEL COHEN IS GOING TO TELL YOU IS A NARRATOR OF THE EVIDENCE BUT WE'RE ALSO GOING TO SHOW YOU THE EVIDENCE. THEY HAD SMOKING GUN EVIDENCE OF THE CRIMES. >> IF YOU PUT HERE ALVIN BRAGG, GOOD BACKGROUND FROM MY FRIENDS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO HAVE KNOWN HIM FOR YEARS AS A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, AS A STATE PROSECUTOR. THE WORD ON ALVIN BRAGG IS HE IS THE REAL DEAL. >> YEAH. >> NOT MEANING THAT HE'S LIKE I'M GOING TO GO OUT HAMMER AND TONGS ON EVERYONE, MEANING HE IS A PROFESSIONAL WHO IS PRINCIPLED. WHEN HE SAID THE CASE WASN'T READY, IT WAS BECAUSE THE CASE WASN'T READY. WHEN HE DECIDED TO BRING THE CASE, IT WAS BECAUSE HE DECIDED THE CASE WAS READY. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S LIKE WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET. THERE'S NO BACK STORY. IT IS LIKE THIS WAS A GUY WHO'S KNOWN AS THE REAL DEAL. AND THEN HE HANDLED HIMSELF THAT WAY. WITHOUT CASTING ANY ASPERSIONS ON ANY OTHER WAY ANYONE ELSE ACTS, HE DID THE SORT OF CLASSIC MODEL OF I AM GOING TO SPEAK IN COURT AND THIS VERDICT IS WHAT HE'S SPEAKING OUT THROUGH. AND NOW IS THE TIME FOR HIM TO SAY SOMETHING, TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HIS TEAM AND THE ONE THING EVERYONE SAW WHEN YOU WERE IN COURT, THIS WAS THE A-TEAM. IT WAS A STUPENDOUS PRESENTATION. >> SO CAN WE NEWSIFY IT A BIT? DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO TAKE QUESTIONS? DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO SPEAK TO SENTENCING? >> I DON'T THINK HE'LL TALK ABOUT SENTENCING. I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT WHAT TO DO. I DO EXPECT THAT -- I MEAN, NOT TO TAP MYSELF ON THE BACK, BUT I DO THINK THE THINGS I SAID THAT ARE FACTORS ARE GOING TO BE BROUGHT UP TO THE COURT. IT IS -- BY THE WAY, IT'S AN E FELONY. IT'S NOT THE MOST SERIOUS FELONY UNDER STATE LAW, BUT IT IS HARD TO THINK OF AN E FELONY THAT IS MORE SERIOUS IN TERMS OF THE UNDERLYING FACTS, AND THAT IS SOMETHING WITH JUDGE MERCHAN, SO EXPERIENCED, BEEN A JUDGE FOR SO LONG THAT THAT CAN NOT ESCAPE HIM. >> CAN I JUMP IN HERE FOR A SECOND, ANYBODY JOINING US, YOU SKIPPED OVER AN IMPORTANT POINT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE RESURFACE THAT. THE NEXT THING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN COURT, BOTH SIDES ARE GOING TO SUBMIT THEIR ADVICE TO THE JUDGE, ESSENTIALLY THEIR ARGUMENTS TO THE JUDGE AS TO WHAT THE SENTENCING IS GOING TO BE. THE SENTENCING IS SCHEDULED FOR JULY 11th AT 10 A.M. YOU MENTIONED ONE OF THE THINGS JUDGE MERCHAN MIGHT CONSIDER IS THE FACT THAT TRUMP VIOLATED THE GAG ORDER IN THIS CASE. >> RIGHT. >> THAT IS ALLOWED TO INFLUENCE THE JUDGE'S PERCEPTION IN TERMS OF WHAT KIND OF SENTENCE IS WARRANTED HERE. MY QUESTION IS, IS THE GAG ORDER STILL IN EFFECT? DOES THE GAG ORDER STAY IN EFFECT UNTIL SENTENCING? OR IS IT NOW OVER BECAUSE THE TRIAL ITSELF IS OVER? >> SO IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IT FOCUSES ON IS WITNESSES AND JURORS. >> AND JURORS, RIGHT. >> SO I THINK WITH RESPECT TO JURORS, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER THE JUDGE SAYS SOMETHING AND CLARIFIES BECAUSE THAT IS GOING TO BE NEEDED GOINGS FORWARD. >> PROTECTING JURORS? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> TO BE FAIR, WITH WITNESSES, AS THE JUDGE SAID, HE IS CONCERNED NOT JUST ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL PERSON RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM BUT ABOUT THE NEXT PERSON. AND SO IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WITNESSES AND JURORS, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PROTECTED AND FEEL SECURE. BY THE WAY, IT IS STILL SURREAL THAT WE ARE HAVING THIS QUESTION ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO WAS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. >> YEAH. >> THIS IS THE KIND OF CONVERSATION -- >> MOB TALK. >> IT IS. >> HAVING DONE ORGANIZED CRIME CASES, YOU DO NOT -- THIS IS BEYOND MOB TALK. >> YEAH. >> THEY'RE RATIONAL ACTORS, RIGHT? >> EXACTLY. THIS -- THIS IS SOMETHING YOU WORRY ABOUT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, THAT IS WHY THERE IS THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM. YOU WOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT IT AT THIS POINT BUT YOU ARE. >> MORE THAN HAVING DONE, YOU WERE EASTERN DISTRICT. YOU GUYS DO MORE MAFIA CASES THAN ANYONE IN THE COUNTRY. >> TRUE. >> WE'RE 90 SECONDS OUT FROM WHEN D.A. BRAG MAY SPEAK. ANDREW WAS TALKING TO RACHEL ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN IN THIS JULY SENTENCING HEARING. WE HAVE FRESH REPORTING OUT OF THE COURTROOM TODAY, THE LAST THING THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE JURY WAS POLLED AND AFTER THE JUDGE MADE HIS CLOSING REMARKS, THAT'S REALLY COMPLETING, IT WAS, THE DEFENSE HAVING SEEN THEIR DEFENDANT CONVICTED ON ALL 34 COUNTS MADE ONE FINAL PUSH REQUESTING AN ACQUITTAL MOTION AND THEY BASE THAT ON ATTACKING MICHAEL COHEN WHO PROVED TO BE A GOOD ENOUGH WITNESS. NOT A PERFECT WITNESS, BUT CLEARLY GOOD ENOUGH. I MENTIONED WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM D.A. BRAGG. IT'S NEWS BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO HEAR FROM MICHAEL COHEN TONIGHT ON MSNBC, THE FIRST PLACE I BELIEVE HE'LL BE SPEAKING SINCE THE VERDICT. ANDREW, CAN YOU SPEAK ON THAT AND HOW THEY ARE STILL GOING TO LAUNCH THIS APPEAL STRATEGY GOING ON COHEN BUT THE SENTENCING COULD BE HARSHER IF THEY BASE THIS ON AGGRAVATING FACTORS. >> IT WILL BE INTERESTING. THE TIMING OF THE SENTENCING AND THE APPEAL IS GOING TO BE VERY MUCH WHAT I WOULD SAY, NICOLE, IN YOUR LANE. IT WILL BE THE POLITICS LANE IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY THINK MAY HAPPEN ON APPEAL AND WHETHER THEY THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL BENEFIT THEM. IF THEY THINK THAT IT WILL BE USEFUL TO HAVE AN APPELLATE BRIEF IN BEFORE THE ELECTION SO THAT THEY CAN GET SOME LACKEYS TO SAY, OH, YES, THIS IS A -- THERE'S TONS OF LEGAL ERROR HERE, THEY WILL DO THAT. BUT FOR THE MOMENT, YOU KNOW, THERE WILL BE A SENTENCING. THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT THE JUDGE IS GOING TO -- NO MATTER WHAT SENTENCE IT IS, I HAVE TO SAY, THIS IS -- THIS IS IN FRONT OF A JUDGE, AND I FELT THIS WAY WHEN I WAS -- WENT TO A SENTENCING THAT AMY BURMAN JACKSON WHO HAD THE MANAFORT CASE, GAETZ CASE. WHERE I HAD MY OWN VIEW. SOMETIMES YOU ARE IN FRONT OF A JUDGE YOU RESPECT SO MUCH AND THINK IS SO THOUGHT FULL THAT YOU REALLY THINK WHATEVER HE DOES IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE FAIR. >> YEAH. >> IT MAY NOT BE EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD DO, BUT THIS IS ONE WHERE WE HAVE SEEN A JUDGE WHO HAS JUST DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB GETTING THE CASE TO TRIAL, NOT
