His Excellency Vikram Doraiswami, Indian High Commissioner questioned by Oxford students

[Applause] thank you very much for your Excellency for those remarks they're very very interesting and very hopeful to the Future and whilst the United Kingdom may now be the sixth largest economy in the world at least the French is still seventh um going back to talk about some of the things you talked about in your address uh talking first about the points you made about media uh and whilst I I largely agree with a lot of what you said about how vibrant and unique the media culture is in India with different languages small town coverage Big Time coverage international coverage English language coverage um obviously in the last few weeks there was the incident of BBC offices in India being raided by the government um something that's been raised by the British government in the House of Commons elsewhere um can you offer an explanation for this on behalf of quite easily first and foremost contrary to what the media put out it wasn't a tax raid uh as they say if you are raided by tax authorities it looks very different uh this was a outstanding investigation that's been underway and in fact there was a statement issued by the by the central Board of direct taxes uh on transfer pricing you're aware of how transfer pricing Works transfer pricing particularly for Tech and information based companies is essentially a process by which essentially the company says here's here's the IP that we've created abroad say in Ireland or somewhere else and the profits that we make elsewhere say in India are 90 of it or 80 of it has to go back to where the IP was created now this tax authorities all over the world and including in the UK often dispute whether this is a viable point so there has been an ongoing correspondence and a somewhat uh lengthy dispute between the tax authorities and the BBC not just the BBC many other tech-based companies or information based companies that are operating in India that transfer pricing needs to be looked at in your transfer pricing uh data is questionable according to at least the tax authorities I'm no tax expert but essentially that inquiry process has happened the BBC was not stopped from functioning the BBC continues to broadcast an interview and carry out its its legitimate media businesses in India there was no regulatory intervention by the broadcast authorities and frankly it cannot be the case that any media entity only because it is either a foreign entity or it is it is a well-known entity should not be asked questions relating to tax I mean frankly if it's running as a business proposition not as a charitable Foundation then it is subject to the laws of the land regarding tax and that's all the point was so it's complete coincidence that it came just a couple of weeks after something that the Modi government censored I wouldn't say it's a I wouldn't say everything needs to be seen in in the light of uh actions taken by broadcast authorities or by by tax authorities uh there is a process by which inquiries take place and as you noticed nobody in the government came out and said uh anything about the tax uh the tax issue or the the specific discussion around the tax in context of the the broadcast by the way I should remind you the broadcast wasn't on BBC World the the broadcast that that you're referring to it was on BBC Two here in the UK and therefore it wasn't a broadcast that was widely made available to the public in any case in India so frankly it seems hard to see a correlation between something that was not made available in India and action that was taken in India perhaps because there were difficulties in making it available in India caused by the government no actually quite con to the contrary bbc2 is not available in India it was subsequently prevented on social social media from being being shared but BBC Two was not and has not been available in India before from before that it's not available on the bouquet there not because the government has stopped it but because it isn't available there that's all why were steps taken to prevent it from being shared on social media I think we have reasonable concerns that on on three counts one this is a documentary that actually went out and um how should I put it it it it talks about a process a series of incidents that the Supreme Court of India has already judged on that a special investigation team that by the way was set up by the previous government which is as you know not exactly a political Ally of the current ruling party to the quite to the contrary in fact all of these issues have been have been litigated and have been adjudicated by the Supreme Court which as I as I pointed out earlier is entirely independent and entirely capable of taking its own decisions beyond the legalistic point there is also the point that issues have consequence in India both social media and regular media whatever is put on it could and has in the past had social consequence in terms of violence between communities and the last thing we need is somebody else to come and help create problems that perpetrate or either provoke violence between communities I think our primary our primary obligation in such a case is to ensure the security of our citizens and the safety of our public order do not see how the combination of the government stopping the sharing of certain content created by the BBC followed by a raid of the BBC four perhaps genuinely unrelated reasons could at least be seen to be a rather threatening act that's a matter of perception I don't have to subscribe to your perception but let me put it this way do you not also see that an Indian TV channel last December this is December 2021 was prevented by your broadcasting authorities from broadcasting material in India on on India an Indian program which is otherwise that that channel was otherwise available here on your bouquet it was actually stopped by your broadcaster so it's not as if your broadcasters take the big Broad View when it comes to democracy and Freedom of Information but I'm just making the point that you know you can't have you can't have a circular argument that only that really stops at my end and doesn't go to your end um moving on I suppose something you're talking about about the overwhelming success of electronic voting and the franchise is in India um I suppose I'm asking to talk about a country other than India here but why do you think that the extension of online voting or sort of voting booths I suppose has been so successful in India in rural um language diverse remote areas and yet the Nigerian election Nigeria country similarly to India very diverse religiously um ethnically uh very large country with you know lots of um sort of rural population centers uh has had such difficulties in implementing successful online voting why do you think it's been so successful in India well I can talk to the second part um it would be most improper for me to drop the first part and I also genuinely don't know enough about Nigeria I've only been there once or twice but let me say that yes first and foremost the electronic voting machine it's not internet enabled all right so it's the most important point that people need to recognize it is in that sense a dumb machine it's purely electronic it captures your vote it locks it in electronically and it generates a paper printout that is put into a lock box straight away so anybody who wants to can compare and actually count and verify that the number of votes on the electronic machine are the same in terms of actual paper our goal is not to save paper we're not looking at it purely from an environmental view but to actually make elections uh as tidy and as error error-free as possible now why does it work now if you look at it in a country with dive shall we say diverse levels of literacy the hardest thing to do is to be able to ensure that people actually have exercised their franchise in a way that is Meaningful to them now we're all familiar with stories of how in other countries for instance um votes when they have to be recounted you have to figure out whether somebody had actually put a cross here or actually punched a hole there or whether this indentation constitutes of uh you know we we all remember in a certain country of uh pregnant Chads dimple Chads whatever they were called and we all learned the word Chad wasn't a country but I had something to do with the election as a result of that in India the way this works is these are simple machines with a clear screen and with an election symbol and the election symbol is like signage outside the universal sign for a restaurant or universal sign for a for a bathroom the simplest way in which you can identify the party that you wish to vote for and so people see this as a simple easy cost-effective way and people love the fact that results can come out really fast earlier in the old days the manual uh vote counting it had two problems one was of course the time taken which is a long time but it also had another problem which was it actually um allowed for misuse or or malpractices where it was very easy to go and stuff a booth you went there and you had a whole bunch of ballots and you intimidated the officials and you got them people to just go and stamp on on the sign that you wanted and stuff a Ballot Box you can't do it to the motion with the voting machine it allows you to press only once and on the basis of an individual fingerprint and that's it so so you know people like the fact that their franchise is their own and I think that works in India I like that phrase diversity of literacy I think I could apply to some of my classmates but um moving on then to uh uh British Indian relations something um I've always wondered is do you particularly because post-brexit especially uh people in the UK the whole Global Britain movement have had this sort of sense that uh Britain has a larger diplomatic potential Beyond Europe and needs to reconnect the rest of the world particularly the Commonwealth um do you think that the let's say rocky history of Britain India um but the historical connections between the two countries makes diplomatic relations between the two easier or more difficult interesting question look familiarity is always a good thing uh contrary to what the adage says it doesn't always mean contempt I think in this case it means that there is an easy start to it we have some understanding of each other it's not completely terranola you know each a bit about each other you certainly have things that are common I mean we have a shared religion in cricket and and certainly your Premier League football teams are hugely popular in India so there's a lot that that builds off it right so you have an easy context to start work and I think that's an important Point history of course plays a role but it's important particularly in a country that for us at least in India as we March facing forward it's important not to spend your time looking at the back you know looking behind you to see what what the past was like we need to be informed by the past of course so that you know whatever the problems of the past are you don't replicate them and I think that's an important piece of any relationship but management to the past I think has been work in progress and I think efforts are on to try and ensure that we do the best with it this includes you know the bridge that uh community of British people of Indian origin constitute their contributions to this country are significant and 1.7 million people it's not a small number their successes here in this country are also emblematic for Indians of the success that the modern Britain can be for all communities and I think that's a good piece the success of Indian companies here is a good piece again it helps anchor the relationship in a more modern sense and I believe our Commonwealth connection if we can actually leverage it well is an important means through which we can amplify uh the shared values that we have as I suggested of democracy of uh of subscription to a rules-based order based on International laws accepted International laws these are important means by which India and the UK can actually build that relationship speaking of the Commonwealth then following the death of himachali the queen what do you see the future of the Commonwealth being particularly now the UK is no longer the largest economy in the Commonwealth this whole idea of sort of Primus interparas first amongst equals that I suppose never formally stated but was always partly there because of the Queen's status head of the Commonwealth what do you think the future is for the Commonwealth and what would you like to see India's role in the Commonwealth as being well maybe put it this way every institution evolves to the age that it is relevant to the modern Commonwealth as it currently is is also a post Colonial creation if you will um we signed up to it with the understanding that it would be a sort of a a club of common values uh with a Majesty being being being the recognized head of it but not necessarily in the same format that it was prior to our independence in other words every country would be Sovereign and equal within it now looking ahead in the 21st century I believe the Commonwealth has an opportunity to focus on being a mechanism through which a diverse set of countries ranging from the Pacific Islands to Latin America and pretty much everything in between uh are able to focus on say for instance issues relating to sustainable development issues relating to the environment issues relating to empowerment to women and issues relating frankly to the complexity of uh of dealing with a modern global system in which there is increasingly stresses that are polarizing the world the Commonwealth could be a unifying factor in that provided we understand that it will have to play to its strengths um you know the Commonwealth can't replace say the United Nations but it can serve as uh a a framework through which countries that are part of the club so to speak can we can contribute to um debates of the Modern Age and con contribute through example for cooperation both in the south-south framework where technical capacities uh developmental projects can be can be can be funded and executed but also in a in a new lexicon of not-south Frameworks so we needn't necessarily get into the business of who actually runs the place because I suspect that is an unhealthy way of looking at it it's a much better way to look at it as a way of how can we all benefit more from the institution that we're part of was a bit into my my prior question about um British Indian relations generally and you talked about the 1.7 million British Indians and their successes um obviously where she soon Act is the first non-whites Prime Minister of the UK in the first British Indian to hold the Office of Prime Minister and he went to Oxford um so do what significance do you think uh Rishi sunax election the Office of Prime Minister has on British Indian relations well um let me say first and foremost I think we in India obviously recognize that Rishi sunak is prime minister sunak is first and foremost a British political leader and that he's born and brought up here he you know he's a product of this system and therefore he will do as he must what is best for his country you know the mere fact of his ethnic Origins isn't necessarily something that we should see as giving the India UK relationship a special place I think that would be doing him in unfairness it also does the relationship in unfairness frankly the interests that two countries have they can be supported by or even to some extent guided and informed by communities that are bridges between them but they cannot be defined by them and I think that's important but for the community of people of Indian origin worldwide I'm sure that that is a very big message and people of Indian origin would welcome it I'm sure in in the UK and elsewhere in the world where there are large Pio communities as we call them and that's also good because it's a good story for Britain also but in India apart from the the sort of thrilled that the Press seemed to feel about it in the sense of being on the front pages of every newspaper frankly we in government will deal with the UK as we have always dealt with the UK which is that it is an important partner for us an important strategic partner and that the prime minister of the the day is the prime minister of the United Kingdom never mind what his or her name might be talking of those dealings between the two governments um free trade agreements between uh India United Kingdom is looking like it's ever closer um can you tell us a bit about that and what you think it offers for future partnership and what India would like to see in it well look I think let me start with the second part first I think and I'm sorry to seem as if I'm beating up on the media but I do believe that the media reportage on the Free Trade Agreement is does does the entirety of it a disservice it focuses on two basic themes one that we missed the Diwali deadline frankly which was neither here nor there and two that somehow this is something to do with visas honestly speaking no free trade agreements are not about visas those are Visa arrangements are separate things and those are run usually by home Ministries on both sides absolutely not what we're looking for is a good balanced agreement between India and the UK that covers uh gives and gets on both sides both in goods and in services both of our economies are you know have a certain preponderance of services in the contribution to the economy and we believe that there is a reasonable deal that can be had which will enable British Services which in many many sectors are Best in Class to find opportunities for Partnerships in India and at the same time Indian companies both in manufacturing and in Services can find footholds here in the UK our goal would be something that opens up some of the sectors these should be reasonably obvious things that we we are pretty good at exporting including pharmaceutical products um some some chemicals garments textiles Etc but also some food products and also for the UK to be able to export some of its products of excellence and let me give you on a lighter note what one product alone could could do which is say whiskey as you probably know for a country that largely considers itself as a goal to look at uh how should we say being abstemious uh India still manages to consume a significant amount of whiskey to put it in perspective we are your today your largest buyers of Scotch whiskey and we buy about 10 of all Scotch whiskey exported maybe a little bit more than that this is approximately three million cases from what I've been told three million two million cases but India consumes obviously not just Scotch whiskey but whiskey alone something like 200 million cases of whiskey a year so frankly there isn't enough water in Scotland to satiate the demand for whiskey so so just to put that in perspective the opportunity that the trade deal offers is colossal and it isn't just about the scale of the market but it is also about you know the large sophisticated Market that the UK represents and for us to be able to tap into some of that also a two more questions for me for your adapted audience um first of all about india-china relations um you mentioned in your opening remarks about how China been the sort of great economic success story of the the late 20th century but how that's giving way to to India um uh there have already been tensions on the border between India and China China's new dam project in Tibet the mega Dam that will potentially give China control of um water flows to much of the subcontinent not just to India but to Bangladesh as well um what do you see as being the future of uh India Chinese sino-indian relations and do you think that China represents a threat to Indian interests in the long term well that's the last one is conclusion I wouldn't want to come to obviously to quote Yes Prime Minister when Bernard woolies asked by prime minister prime minister hacker Bernard when the chips are down are you on my side or on or on anybody else's side and he says my job prime minister is to ensure that the chips stay up so my job as a diplomat is to ensure that the chip stay up and we certainly don't we're certainly not looking for a relationship with China that is that allows either of us to become a threat to the other but there are of course concerns that we've had for a long time and for that you need to have the perspective as my as my boss our external affairs minister has so eloquently put in many cases that the basic premise of the the sort of uh restructuring of India China relations in the uh in the from the in the early 90s was based on one or two clear understandings the first was that while the boundary issues a significant issue and a complication for both countries we would not only set that aside and allow the rest of the relationship to grow we would continue to try and deal with it while managing it in a way that would it it would you know not contribute to instability but it we would create confidence building measures to deal with a boundary which is extremely complicated how complicated it isn't just that there's a dispute about where the boundary line should run there is even a dispute about where the lines of actual control are it because of the territory the terrain that it runs through uh that quite often these are areas of as we call them differing perception which means our claim of where the line of actual control is and their claim of where the line of actual controllers sometimes can be overlapping now this could be a recipe for trouble and so wisely both sides agreed that you would both sides would work to not allow that to escalate and that we created an elaborate series of mechanisms for this what has happened however of late both there and in some of our other areas is that there is no longer a sense that that particular Dynamic is being allowed to function and the worst example of that of course was in June 2020 when they were actually you know deaths on the border for the first time in over 40 years now you can't put that aside and say okay let's park that as an unfortunate for unfortunate incident to move on because it isn't the event alone that is a problem problematic as that is it is also what it represents and that along with other larger concerns about about the process of China's interaction with us and with the larger World remain of concern but you know concerns don't have to become a problem and a problem doesn't have to become a crisis and the purpose of diplomacy is to first of all try and reverse the process processes that have created pressures on the border and find ways in which we can uh come up with a new framework by which the relationship can be managed and the mega Dam the mega Dam of course look this is we've we started a process by which we were working on working with China to uh to Source data on the brahmaputra which is starts in central Tibet and comes comes down into the subcontinent now this is of course a crucial matter and this is one of the fundamental basis on which we work with the Chinese to try and ensure that there is clarity about what exactly is being done on the river and what its implications are for Downstream countries now we don't have a full answer on this one yet but it is critical not just for us but as you correctly said for Bangladesh and indeed similar activities on the upper reaches of the Mekong River now all of these do need to be managed because water is a shared resource across Asia in particular where you know most of these rivers are transpoundary rivers so you know there isn't a simple answer to that but the process of of of finding a reasonable modus event eye on on water sharing also is a work is something that we do expect to see and finally before I open up this audience questions uh for 10 minutes or so the growth India's experience the social changes that you outlined all seem to be leading towards and already I suppose the case um the state of India as a as a world leader as a global power um and I'm sure in the next few decades you'll see India seek to be a permanent member of the U.N security Council amongst other things um do you think that if India wishes to sort of I suppose assume its natural status on the world stage it ought to take a stance or at least more of a stance on for example the Russian invasion of Ukraine so first and foremost let me let me marginally correct you a bit on that we have already sought to be a purpose some time ago uh uh and we do believe that you know this is because we believe we can contribute to the larger purpose of International Peace and security um you only have to look at the way the internet this the the International System is configured to recognize that it certainly doesn't represent in the world of today but the world of 1945. um and I think that's an important Point irrespective of of how you come to the conclusion of how that process is to be carried forward um on the Russia Ukraine question as as we have repeatedly said that you know you look at what we've been saying at the United Nations what my what my boss our foreign minister has said at the UN last year also the last unga we stand with the charter we have repeatedly affirmed that particular point we are not in favor of conflict as a means of resolving problems between countries my prime minister has said that in at the Shanghai cooperation organization event in September our position is very clear merely because we don't vote in a particular direction doesn't mean we are taking the other direction either Our concern is that the focus of the world needs to be in preventing the conflict and stopping the conflict let me put it to you in another sense in any other conflict that you've seen in the last several decades the world's effort has been to call for a ceasefire and to prevent the conflict from being escalated that is not the case currently the conflict continues people continue to die on both sides and this is certainly not a situation that we wish to see nobody is saying that uh that you know a ceasefire will mean uh for for Ukraine for instance uh acceptance of the state of scope like Ukraine hasn't accepted the status quo Ukraine is a sovereign country it will have it will have the right to make its position and should have the right to make its position explicit but I believe our effort first and foremost as the International Community needs to be to try and stop the conflict and I think our position has been made amply clear here on number of occasions at the highest possible level now how that plays out on in terms of actual Dynamics is fairly simple we don't we can't insist on the dynamic being led by us but right now neither of the two parties to the conflict so to speak if I were to use the word Loosely seems to be interested in anything that that involves a cessation of conflict till their aims are met but it's not just about not wanted to play a role in escalating the conflict in this repeatedly refused to condemn uh the Russian invasion of Ukraine and has continued to buy or increased substantially it's um consumption of oil and gas from Russia as a resultant price of rational and gas declining um are these things not actually tacit support for The Invasion if you're refusing so let me first come to your point about buying more oil and gas um as you probably know the international sources for oil and gas aren't very many right um our purchases were primarily from the spot Market with some amount in long-term Contracting uh one of our sources are significant sources in the past has been Iran but you've got sanctions on Iran so we can't buy oil from Iran anymore another source used to be Venezuela you've got sanctions on Venezuela we can't buy from Venezuela one of our top five sources of oil was Iraq I don't need to remind you what happened to Iraq uh under these circumstances we weren't buying very much from Russia if you actually look at the numbers this is not uh but what we are doing is essentially purchasing what's available when the West stopped buying Russian oil or has been was reduced its purchase of Russian oil where are you getting your oil from you're buying it from the same people we were buying it from earlier and in using your long-term contracts to to procure larger amounts that squeezes us out now we buy we need 80 percent of our energy sourcing comes from abroad we are not in a position to turn off the Taps on our economy and say you know what let's wait till the conflict gets over and then we'll buy oil right so what's left the only oil that's available in the market now is Russian oil so we will buy where we need to and we will buy from whoever we need to keep our our economy running and I don't think that's unreasonable because frankly everybody else is doing the same and if and not voting to condemn the war look the voting to condemn the war you if you look at our explanation of what the last United Nations General Assembly resolution we have made our views extremely clear we are not in favor of conflict but we are in favor of resolutions that call for ending the conflict that is not the case now resolutions have to be seen in their totality all U.N resolutions are framed with a particular set of language right our effort has to be that the language has to also contribute to finding a solution or at least stopping a conflict merely merely voting to to condemn a conflict doesn't stop the conflict our interest isn't a solution rather than in in necessarily being part of part of um sort of a sign on to this now do we wish to see conflict absolutely not our prime minister has said so publicly including in in Shanghai at the Shanghai cooperation organization in Tashkent last year uh now is not the time for war he said exactly now so obviously we're not in favor of conflict when we are in favor of the U.N Charter all of these have been explicitly stated by our leadership but we're also in favor of a cessation of hostilities now nobody's talking about that we would like to see resolutions of the U.N that actually take on board these suggestions but nobody wants to take those suggestions on board but even if it's not formally supporting a a un bill because of the concerns he raised do you not think that India has a responsibility to affirm National sovereignty and state publicly that any breaches of national sovereignty are but we have but why would you do so publicly in foreign minister said it at the U.N but the refuse devoted and saying the same thing because it's not governing the rest of our interests so any bill that India wants to support must cover everything that that's how U.N votes happen have you seen how U.N votes uh don't tend to happen so look I mean that's hardly my fault of the U.N cannot bring together everybody's views in one piece of paper I suppose as a follow-up then that's that do you think the United Nations has a continued role to play in things like this if it can't bring together the interests of the West India China and interested thank you for saying that this is why we've been talking about you in reform so yeah you think the UN has a fundamental problem Oh yes that's the whole point about you and reform I mean you're in the U.N must take on board the views of uh the views of more countries by having more countries that are that may not have been relevant to the world of 1945 but our relevant to the world of 2023 uh in in the way the International System is structured and that by the way is not just India but it also includes other countries in Europe but also in Asia Brazil Brazil in Latin America anyway uh I have any audience questions for the next five ten minutes I will go to the member right here I have a question regarding the war itself so considering India's support for Russia and you know their individual opinion of the war I'd like to candidly ask you of the pressure of the experience the Indian commission or uh the office of the Indian uh you know contingent face to lean towards The Narrative of the West no look let me let me first slightly correct that we are not supporting any side on the war we are supporting ourselves the site that we're on is the India is India's side and our interests as any country should be are in India's our India's national interests uh India's development India's need for uh for it for uh for energy and India's uh interests in peace and Security in the world so our position we have explained it repeatedly and more eloquently than I could by my by my boss in stating candidly how we wish to see the world actually deal with this terrible crisis and actually find ways of de-escalating it and and at least bringing the fighting to to a pause if nothing else now that is to my limited knowledge the norm that has been followed elsewhere in the world on other conflicts and we see no reason why we shouldn't at least aim to to stop violence to stop conflict which is costing everybody in lives on both sides and find ways in which we can take the narrative forward for finding a solution to to the conflict now whether we Face pressure or not look we're here for that we are open to talk to our British friends we believe that as sister democracies it's possible for us to have an exchange of views to understand each other's concerns and we have our share of concerns and and absolutely the British have their share of concerns and among Partners it should be possible to at least find ways in which we can find that intersect between what both of us is looking for on on any issue of the day including this one um yeah for more insights I actually spoke a lot about democracy and I truly believe that India we have more questions but when we talk about uh the government in India now and I think the BJP is done a fantastic job and it's great to have a center with that something that's something I did right but how do we keep that power in check because this is these are the conversations you're trying to have with people that the BJP has 303 seats the news about the Congress has 52. how are we trying to keep that problem in general because I think what's concerning today is not that India's not a democracy I think those are questions of the past which are definitely is it democracy forward how do we have an effective opposition to keep the government in China it's hardly my job to tell you how to create an opposition but uh but um look there are two things that work in favor of checks and balances uh obviously a political party any political parties jobs to win elections and any political party no not just in India will seek to maximize its political gains that's perfectly legitimate but we have two things that work in India that are critical to this one is uh obviously as I said Court the court system and the court system there is no way in which you can cherry pick judges in India if they are done by the Collision which is a structure that creates uh you know through which judges are appointed Etc so the legal system is very much a separate pillar of our democracy and that's an important check on the larger system of governance but the second and equally important one is the fact that in a curious sense India is also um it's not a union of States as as in the in the in the U.S sense of the term but it is a federal structure because states have powers the Constitution gives them a significant amount of path and states have elections and the same party doesn't win all elections as we've seen repeatedly so never mind which party is in power there is always a diversity of uh of parties running our states and that in itself is a means by which the political system balances itself out public opinion is a third and frankly as I said of course there are voices that are strongly critical of the government as they should be in any any democracy but that they are critical of India India's government from within India what mode you need as a check I mean if they were critical of India from outside it's easy to dismiss them as irrelevant to our concerns but these are Indian people who have their own view of India's India's government they may be right they may be wrong I'm a civil servant it's not my job to take that view my job is to serve uh serve according to the Constitution of India and that to me is the fourth and most important check the constitution of India is clearly defined it is a written down Constitution and it sets out in clear terms what India's democracy should be all about and for those who have doubts about democracy in India I urge you to read the Constitution I'm afraid that's all we have time for as this access needs to head off another meeting um ladies and Gentlemen please join me in thanking his Excellency for the talking questions [Applause] thank you [Music]

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Published: Thu Apr 13 2023