High Temp 3D Printing FOR NASA with Vision Miner

hey it's Joel nope not at home I'm in sunny Southern California I'm here at vision miner this is Rob next to me and these are some amazing industrial additive manufacturing machines right behind me we're gonna get into how they are awesome and how they are enabling the future of space flight right here on 3d printing nerd nailed it hey Rob Hey oh good to see man absolutely man it's crazy you know I told my audience before you and I attended the same high school it was just amazing and so we're we're we're brothers in that but we're brothers in additive manufacturing and vision minor happens to do a lot of it can you talk a little bit about vision minor what the goal here is so I mean honestly when I started learning I was watching your videos you know back in the day but we when we got in we were prototyping parts for gimble's and in the drone industry and all kinds of stuff where it needed to be strong rigid it needed to be really like it just needed to work right and so when we found high-temperature thermoplastics in the 3d printing space we were like Oh strong as steel but what is this okay it's plastic you can replace it metal with it okay let's get into this and then when we got into it nobody was doing it there was like one NASA white paper about them converting an Ulta maker into a high temperature and that was about it so we had yeah we got the first in Tampa spun matte machine prototype and then we got a second one and we just started getting into it we just started printing we're like we're gonna figure this stuff out and let's make a business around it because nobody's doing it everybody needs to learn and this stuff is freaking cool you know it's using space it sees in medical devices it's using all across these industries where I mean it's like I mean you most people have never even seen the parts that are actually made out of these materials but sure really interesting stuff but well and you know just talking about that a lot of people haven't actually seen the materials themselves and so okay just new consumer level we've got PLA ABS PT gasa variants of nylons you know stuff like black carbon it's a PC PC we're starting to get into more of the engineering grade but when we talk about industrial additive manufacturing or industrial grade polymers what are we talking about so we're talking everything from Pei the the stuff that we use as beds for PLA and everything else we print that out of the nozzle we use peak PBS you polyphenols sulfone PBS PSU and basically a bunch of different super high temperature filaments they're printing out about 400 Celsius or somewhere you know give or take 4700 okay so not only are they the material properties themselves are fit for these industrial professional applications what's the temperatures that you have to melt that are also industrial or a professional and then there's there's variance with like a different fiberfill like carbon fibers and glass fibers carbon fibers and that really reduces the warping and it increases the stiffness and strength to waist ratio and all these polymers as long as you're using chopped carbon then it just like really makes it easier to print and makes it generally a stronger part depending on the application yeah well then okay so chopped carbon fiber usually makes the material a black and a matte finish about what's going on in the machine behind you that is what's going on right now this is the Cincinnati Sam HT it's a newer high temp printer with look crazy specs we can actually crank the bed to 250 so you can you can practically melt stuff I can make breakfast on the bed yeah yeah literally so right now we got a part for a defense contractor I don't actually know what it's for oh it's a defense contractor I don't think anyone really knows what it's right a lot of the stuff we get is like heavily shrouded under NDA s and it's like it's like this is a part going in something and all we know is it needs to survive it you know 200 Celsius and sulfuric acid at 300 psi underground water sounds good man all right we'll figure out how to print it and actually make it work how hots the chamber like it's warm right right so this one I believe right now is about 110 to 120 we've been experimenting it cranking up past 140 up to 116 above but we're experimenting I mean it's nothin at this it's literally another and if I look on the inside it looks crazy NASA space like I mean there's there's there's Titus and there's tubes and what's going on inside here is that water cooling that's water cooling on all the stepper motors the extruder itself because you're in a chamber that's so high you can't just cool it right now I you know people preach that if you put an enclosure around your machine we're not talking about or we're talking about the parts themselves electronics being degraded because of the heat right and so this is the extreme version of that so there's active cooling on the electronic components that brilliant anything over 80 Celsius or so like the further up you get from that you start to see skipping you start to see errors you start to the electronic errors and whatnots is very important keep everything cool obviously it's working because I mean look at that part it is gorgeous do you know what material this is this is carbon fiber Ultem so this is a 3d X Tech and they're printing at about 380 Celsius on the nozzle right now and I believe about probably one think we're only at 145 in the bed right now we got our nano-polymer down there on glass so that's just sticks you know and then the vacuum table and all that yeah this is nuts so engineering materials like this though I mean we talked about PE TG we talked about glow-in-the-dark filaments or TP use TP es very hygroscopic our engineering materials hygroscopic as well on a whole nother level so ultimate n10 absorbs moisture up to point zero two percent right up it's mass will absorb moisture and that happens in about ten minutes in open air depending on how humid it is out right so you're like new filament and then first off it's probably not dry out of the bag you're gonna have to dry it but if you take it and say you take it out of your dryer set it on the table prep your machine cooled and put it in the machine it's already absorbed and all that moisture you're gonna start to get that up vo snap crackle pop and fizz out of the nozzle only parts gonna look like junk it doesn't stick to the bed it doesn't stick to itself it's really it's really crazy what that really does so then what's the solution to that how do you actively dry an engineering grade material so you have to prepare the palmer's for processing that's like a technical way of saying it right it is it's you know you have to dry it before you melt it right so if there's any moisture in there and you're melting at a high temperature that moisture is gonna turn into steam so you need to prepare it you need to dry it out like completely before you go in through a nozzle so how do you do that well let's go check it out I'll show you what we do great now Rob I've done an episode on a food dehydrator what this is it it looks familiar I understand this this looks dangerous what is it so this is a lab oven right so this sum allows us to program in different temperatures over different amounts of time and you can use that for annealing parts okay I understand that for right but it also just maintains high temperatures you know efficiently so we use it to dry our filaments that have been 150 Celsius general Celsius okay because this the food dehydrator we're talking 120 to 140 Fahrenheit yeah south 70 sales usually okay so this is a lot more yeah yeah you know so in doing that you know you have to bake ultimatte like 150 or and peak and all the high temperature stuff otherwise it just does not dry weather if their glass transition temperature is so high I guess right sense to bake like that that presents a problem though right yes it does okay if I put my spools of PLA in here sure the PLA would begin to get soggy if the spools themselves with suffer failure right and those are either made of ABS PC ABS or probably carbonate and which still melts at about 120 Celsius okay so how do you solve that problem well we started melting spools and you know it's very uh yeah you've made art we're gonna hang a bunch of these up from the ceiling as a chandelier right sure but what we ended up doing was we needed nail spools we had to dry everything at higher temperatures and what's not gonna melt wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute you said metal right may I absolutely okay this is metal this is a metal spoon no way woman I'm 6061 powder coated with the hard anand or not powder coated hard anodized okay powder coating will chip off that especially these temperatures yeah I just this is crazy I mean it feels cool it feels really cool this would survive in the oven oh yeah oh yeah we can wall - you know 180 180 if it needs right really fast or you know if we drop it on the ground you know whatever it's fine we made it really really functional one of the big things is we use a lot of the carbon fiber and glass composites and those love to be brittle and snap especially when they're super dry even I do that right so you get all you know most of the spools they come on there's like two holes here and two holes here and you're like I either don't have enough filament or this or the angles wrong so we pull cast around the whole thing no matter where you're at you're good to go this is super functional and it does have the vision binary it does that's pretty cool this is cool and I'm glad you told me about this so then your your customers can get their filament exactly you know if we're melting this stuff and to properly print it you know if we're melting spools running into all these problems like most of the the products we've made just come from solving problems that our customers are also seeing so you know from the glue this they can't stick anything okay now it sticks great you know that the spools are melting well let's make a spool and give that out - it's like we're just going along going along and as we fail we learn and then we make and we fix and we make it work so wait a minute though then these are this is a pressure pot this is the vacuum chamber yeah this is the next step so like they just come from solving a problem it's dead it's dead so one of the things about water is under vacuum or under pressure it boils at a lower temperature either boil at room temperature oh it's just like going higher in altitude means your water boils at a lower temperature is that so then if you remove all the pressure right then it just instantly boils and so if we stick the hot roll of filament it's a hundred and fifty C you know it's already past that we stick it in there lower the pressure it gets rid of all trace my stir and then we're good to go okay we're talking about trace moisture so this this is gonna solve the problem most of the way this is just that little extra step to make sure your end result is just it's literally that's point zero zero one percent that's maybe in there it's it's tiny amounts and if you take the filament out you've got about 10 minutes before it minutes this is cool dude yeah it's it's a ton of fun you know but we definitely didn't get here without a load of hay there's just a load of this doesn't work why not we don't know okay we'll figure it out I'll do this you know and then it fail fail fail fail fail fail fail win finally oh my god what did we do I don't know let's figure that out you know so it's just been a string of the last two and a half three years of figuring it out doing the R&D projects for the different companies you know all kinds of stuff and there's actually some really cool stuff we can show you in regards to that if you want to check it out let's go sweet alright before we get into all the the really cool stuff I want you to meet Patrick Patrick nice to have good to meet you super stoked bro what do you do here a vision miner uh-huh a little bit of everything wear many hats keep the business going come up with innovation that's what I got to figure out and do more beginnings I started with vision miner came out of a necessity because I had my drone business that had been going for about eight ten years and we were manufacturing drones I had all the Hoskins the routers and stuff and what I would find is I mean you're running this half-million dollar machine you're taking a block of aluminum you're willing it down and you're making like this beautiful part and it's done and you get it and you're like a millimeter off and it is the most saddening frustrating thing because you're burning $75 an hour in engineers you're burning machine time you're burning the cost of the metal and stuff and I was so fresh I say what can we do to stop making this mistakes and I learned about rapid prototyping in this whole 3d printing stuff and that's what got me looking into 3d printers okay great I'm gonna go buy a 3d printer first thing I started doing is printing in PLA nice man beautiful super smooth this looks like an injection molded part right and the moment I mounted my camera on it it broke it was too much weight and I'm like okay this isn't real world rapid prototype testing this is what's better okay ABS okay let's get an ABS machine so now I'm spending more money in the it's not working you know I'm spending more time trying to get this stuff to stick to the bed failing prints clogged nozzles and so I'm going backwards when I used to be able to finish a part it might take me a couple days and at least it was finished but now in this 3d printing it's taken me weeks just to solve the pros to get the machine to work and so I said that's it we have to get into this and figure it out ourselves and so I dove in and started research these high temp 3d printing since the printers and stuff like that what can do functional parts I want to make a part and be able to put it into use not just a trinket not just a toy I need to use this you know something that's strong and that's when I started learning about peak in Alta and that's what I learned about this high temp stuff Iceman that created all sorts of new problems like breaking printing bed glass now you're at temperatures of 400 C and what got us to where we are today Joel I can promise you and I can tell the audience that it's from failing and failing fast so anyone who's trying to start their business you want to fail as quickly as you can so that you can come up with the solutions to solve those problems when I'm learning from it right learning that's it and you learn from every fell you know that famous Thomas Edison you know I didn't fail hundred thousand times I found a hundred thousand ways not to make a light bulb sure you know that's what we did so we fail and when I talk about failing guys vision minor or me or Rob for over a year because we were just steady I'm working in the office printing printing failing failing pulling our hair out that's why my Grey's beard man it wasn't like this three years ago so that's what got us into the business I was it ever need a necessity and then through just trial and error and forcing ourselves to fail we were able to refine and tune this process to where now we have mastered it to where I feel like we're probably one of the only ones in the world have the knowledge base of what we got in this industry in contracts go that's it and it came from this right here guys so when you're failing don't keep going keep targeted now you're quite motivational Patrick oh wow thanks I recognize a lot of these parts down here and I find it interesting that even I mean obviously I printed a lot of consumer materials and you know I get my failures and I learned and now at this point with the knowledge that I've gained my mom I'm pretty good at it I would say but you're on a completely different level I mean we're talking higher cost industrial machines higher cost materials I mean Rob just showed me how to dry this stuff in metal spools it's insane and so to see this level I mean you've kept all your failures it looks like a big acrylic tower full of Olives you'll notice - jewel that a lot of this stuff is just simple it's 90% of the problem at the beginning was better asian like when you do a peak print like you try to print something like this I mean you try to print something like this you will have anywhere from like 20,000 to 40,000 pounds of pressure trying to peel this part up from your glass bed and we talk we're talking to the part curling yeah 1020 to 40,000 pounds if you do a sunless flat piece solid big is the worst thing to do that's what it looks like so again I would come in and I would see Rob you used to you used to prep the build plate with this glue and then you got to scrape it and then you bake it for 15 s and you take it out and you do it you got to do that three times so you're talking about a 30 45 minute print process and you start your first print you don't even get the first layer down and it start in the ear now you got to do another 30 45 minutes so I started come in and he'd be carding dust from scraping noodle and I said that's it I'm gonna solve this bit adhesion problem I'm gonna hire the baddest scientists in the world that we can possibly find and we're gonna make a product because this is what what's happening non-stop oh yeah this breaking what is that is that a broken build plate so yeah this is the part that we did and it literally it just pulls chunks of glass oh my gosh wait that's that's just that's missing glass oh my god the part after and you have to smash off with a hammer if you're gonna use the part so after about eight months of development we were taking all sorts of working with this world-renowned scientists we were able take these chemical compositions and we came up with the solution this nano-polymer pieces we only made this we're peeking it like that was it I needed this stuff to work and by accident it works on everything scientists we're gonna do Patrick a solid right there was a true solid because after that were like oh damn it works on everything you know so that's what we decided to share it with the rest of world don't you like this you know if the website vision mine we'll send you guys a free sample for Joe Joe if you can maybe give your followers a coupon code or something like that we'll be happy to reward that and we'll send a free sample to anyone who requests it and we'll even pay for the shipping that's a great deal in the coupon code for free shipping cool there we go that was already three if you guys like if you have anything out there even if you're using PLA abs it doesn't matter hi Tim stuff obviously works take the free sample I know there's hairspray and maple syrup and all that other good stuff all right Joe now there's something really cool we want to show ya we're really proud of this project you want to check it out I'd love to hey Patrick good to meet you like man I want to come around Oh any time you want let's go it's fantastic all right okay so we do it in here so this will really tell you everything you know if you want to just read that title this lake paper okay monolithic trace contaminants sorbents fabricated from 3d printed polymer precursors what I recognized 42% of the words in this statement but come on Rob right what's going on right so what this is check this out these are some parts that we helped develop they're literally filters for the environmental system on the spacewalk suit the so the suit that astronauts wear on the space station or or whatever space vehicles so when they're they're out in space yeah the space like space like the yes this part will be in it yeah yeah that's cool it's crazy when we find out they wouldn't tell us what it was for for the first you know first 90% of the project and when they finally did it was like what we've been doing this is freaking awesome well then describe this because this this is tiny right but the extrusions are tiny so what material is this so this is actually carbon fiber peak and that was the main challenge they went to five other companies who are doing the high temp stuff at the time it's about a year and a half ago and everybody tried to do it and they ended up picking us and they said we were the only ones they could actually do it so we were using a point two millimeter nozzle with carbon fiber fill I was just gonna teach oh yeah how do you how do you fit the chopped fibers 0.2 let's see you can only you can only do so many grams before the nozzle shot okay yeah you know just getting it to print that cleanly you know coming up with this log pattern or logged a log house yeah log out log cabin look at where it's like oh it's like this way and then this way right right so you know we came up with this process in simplify 3d to make it lay down each extrusion separately to eventually create the full part and then they take this and they put this into a whole nother process that changes it a little bit and they needed this they have the process to go from this to whatever but then but this but in order to transform this they need this you made yeah it's space dude it's like every everyday every project every customer is like so vastly different you know they're in space we're doing rocket nozzles and it's just it's just crazy like where these materials are used it's stuff that we don't hear about every day but it's the stuff do you see in science fiction films and like like oh that's a real project okay this is why I love learning about this because the industrial side of additive manufacturing with these crazy polymers is exciting and it's inspiring and it's in use today to make science fiction science fact yeah every day more people need to know about this dude these Palmers have been around for 30 40 years but they've only been in 3d printing space for the last few years so it's it's widely use and as people discover that oh my god you can 3d print Peak or ultimate or PPS you the possibilities are almost almost literally endless yeah you have a cool job Rob I do it's freakin sweet Rob I really want to thank you for letting us come by this was a lot of fun thank you man the industrial site about of manufacturing is so it's so crazy and it's it's good to know that this part of its in some good hands dude ha cheers man thanks for watching if you made it this far you're awesome don't forget to hug each other more cuz I love you all as always high-five nailed it you

Channel: 3D Printing Nerd

Views: 240,808

Rating: 4.8230143 out of 5

Keywords: 3d printing nerd, joel telling, joeltelling, 3d printing, 3dpn, 3d printing nasa, nasa 3d printing, vision miner, 3d printing high temp plastic, drying ultem, high temp 3d printing filament, nano polymer adhesive, 3d printing peek, 3d printing ultem, drying peek, 3d printing cfpeek, funmat ht enhanced, funmat ht 3d printer, funmat ht pro, funmat ht printer, cincinnati saam ht, cincinnati 3d printing, peek 3d printer, peek 3d printing, ultem filament, funmat ht

Id: A_KvD1yKs40

Length: 22min 56sec (1376 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 15 2020