Havilah Cunnington: Exposing The Lies Surrounding Submission (FULL EPISODE) | Better Together TV

and I said you know Mom Dad has two legs he can get up and get his own food you did not oh I did okay modern no woman and my mother and her you know Southern she's like a California farm girl weighs looks at me and she says have left I like doing this for your father and when she said it I knew she was saying I'm still powerful I actually have chosen to do this so don't don't look at my life as a powerlessness yeah there are some women that are watching today that look submissive because they they feel powerful does that make sense my husband first of all he's fine and he loves Jesus and he communicates and he's just and he has dimples you know I'm kind of partial to them yes and I mean me I'm pretty great yes um I'm just I'm pretty great and so I just knew because God loved me so much he I'm great I've been fasting and praying for marriage and here we are and he my husband's pretty good I just knew God would give me like at least a year before he started talking to me about the s word and I'm not talking about sex because I was ready for that that's right I was ready for that but just submission um that was just something I was not comfortable with and I didn't want to tell my husband that and somehow we missed it in marriage counseling so or pre-marital counseling so we get married and our lives are crazy he's the pastor of a church and I'm working as a nurse in the hospital and our schedules were like I said just super nuts I mean I was doing 12-hour shifts back to back and he's leading the church it was like ships passing at a distance when he was relaxed and happy I'm thinking I have to wake up five o'clock in the morning so uh no let's turn the TV down like no please stop talking to me I just want to sleep and when I'm ready to rumble I just excited he's just preached and he just wants to scratch watch NCIS LA yeah and so I'm sensing that life is not this is not why we got married like we're just not seeing each other and I'm sensing it but I didn't like conflicts I'm just leaving it alone and my husband he likes conflict and so he comes to me one day he's like zai and I'm like what's that he said um this isn't working and I'm like what do you mean and he said this is like I got married to you I want a wife I want to be with you I we're not seeing each other yeah and it's been several months now and it's a lot like I I don't like where this is going and I God had been talking to me about it before but I just didn't want to address it because I'm like what does it mean to address it and he said this he said zai I think it's probably time for you to transition to working at the church now pause here because I love the church right my life was transformed in the church I love our church I'd always dreamed of possibly working at the church but he was just asking me to quit my career yeah and being a nurse that's what I felt called to and that's like my identity was almost wrapped up and being a nurse and I was pretty good at it I mean my patients would give like they would write letters and I mean I was that person that would actually sit down and talk so of course my shifts were longer because I talked to all of us patience I loved being a nurse and here my husband who I prayed for and I fasted for it saying he wants to spend more time with me and it looks like me sacrificing and not being a nurse anymore to do something else and it just started I'm like if we're starting our marriage we'd be making a big sacrifice like this then what is what type of like yeah what am I getting into yeah like is this what submission is like giving up on dreams and all that stuff like now I'm gonna he's the Lord like he's the head of the house and he's also gonna be my boss if I go to work for the church like am I ready like I was so confused but I said I guess this is what it means and I kind of did it begrudgingly like I guess this is what submission means and I didn't quite understand it then nine years later it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made not just for our marriage but for me like when I gave my life to Christ I knew that I just wanted to forget work I just wanted to be in the church all the time so I wanted it but at the same time I was scared for it and then this is my husband like saying this is the next best thing for our marriage but submission I finally TAPS in on an insecurity right wow like it's like and it's it's triggering when that request came this is what I truly believe when the Two Become One flesh and if you're both running in alignment after the plan and the purpose of God there are times where you thought the dream the plan the purpose was going to be realized in one way and oftentimes God gets us off the path that we thought we were on to put us in alignment with his purpose and I think marriage is a whole lot of that it's there are times when I have to yield and I have to lay down in certain Seasons um different plans different purposes different desires that I might have and there are other times when Nick will lay his down so there's an ebb or a flow but I'm telling you after almost three decades you look back and go wow God you actually exceeded anything that I thought if I was submitting as unto you and for your greater plan and your greater purpose God has brought things back in my life that I laid down I thought I would never see them this side of Eternity and God blew my mind in the way that he did it and so I think if we work in the plan and the purpose of God we stay in alignment with the will of God there are times where our dreams our desire our purpose our plan right now maybe we have had to lay it down for a season it changed when I had kids lots of things change if I don't get too attached to the way it's going to happen I find that God actually makes it happen in a better way than I ever thought people hear that word submission uh immediately and put in the definition you know married Christian woman yes it's like okay that's just like so far from the reality of what submission I mean even yesterday we talked about that as Christ's followers were submitting to God in his plan for our life so yielding to God yielding is actually the Christian way right you'll think to God's plan it's not just the the married woman thing it irritates the snot out of me and that's what it how we take it it's just like oh and especially in the culture in which we live in so I feel like that it's been so misconstrued and misunderstood and and scriptures taken out of context submit yeah yeah so let me talk about that scripture just for a moment yes okay Ephesians 5 which is where right yeah that that comes from that portion that portion of scripture is actually I'll give you a little lesson it's actually called the house codes right so uh the house codes and starting in uh 5 20 5 21 it goes through the beginning of chapter six and it's the house codes and these were not Christian they were actually Hellenistic they were Roman and in to a certain degree Jewish this was how Society was set up this is the order for society and so when Paul is taking that and putting it in these letters he it's a it's a very different thing and what Paul does is remix the whole thing right and so how Paul talked about it in Ephesians 5 was uh very different than how it was because uh rather than for example the wife sacrificing herself for the husband which is what Paul's audience expected because that was the traditional way this was written um he remixed it and he admonished the husband to love her and sacrifice yourself for her and so that would have freaked them all out because wow that was not the culture but Paul went no we're doing it he puts the pressure on the man to actually who was like the they called it like the Potter familiar so the the head of the household in that culture he put the pressure on them no you die for her you love her and that would have shocked them because nowhere in that culture whereas a man expected to love his wife in fact she was just property yeah and he could get rid of her if she did if she was Barren he could divorce her like they were just chattel property and so Paul went nope you sacrifice yourself for her you love her in fact the way that Christ loved the church meeting he gave himself up for her so the pressure we always think oh you know it's about the submission no it the pressure and that whole portion is actually on him to be a servant and not the ruler I love that you said that because you know with Nick that's what um I remember even when we first because I you know I didn't marry till I was 30 because I was like what do you mean submit I'm like you know allow submit to God and um you know but I I remember it was like when it was to the degree that you will love me as Christ loves the church and I say that to Nick all the time man you got the bad end of this thing you Gotta Die For Me while you're doing that I'm happy fantastic and pretty much that he's like this deal and I I I I I you know Holly you and I all of us here have been in pastoral care and Ministry for so long and it breaks my heart I'm in my late 50s you know mid to late 50s now and so we've watched this evolve of you know um and I just think of how this has been so misused against women um some women especially in the 80s and 90s when we were all like it would be forced or and sort of guilt-tripped shamed into staying where there was domestic violence happening with people and you're like are you I'm hoping if any woman is watching this we are not talking about anything we're like get out and get somewhere safe that's the first thing that we would always say and um I'm grateful I certainly grew up in a church culture that that never it was always like you safety first and you never use a scripture like this to Lord it over someone to manipulate someone but I I have seen it in the Christian world how and which is why some people broke out in hives as soon as they hear the word wives and submit in that scripture because when I think in terms of How It's been used abusively for sex for violence you know under the guise of God and this has been weaponized um I understand why some people are freaking out and again I've got daughters so we have to talk about this really openly um because you're going okay that still it doesn't change that God had a plan but it's under the overarching plan of what you I think you're saying yielding and I think if we start even starting this conversation because we're we're all married here and I know there are people watching this that aren't married there are people watching this that have gone through horrific marriages yeah where their husband would have beat them over their head with this kind of scripture um and we want to set those people free I mean like with 100 but I think that and in my 26 years of marriage them the amount of times Nick and I have constantly I'm like you got this hard deal so you do this thing and I think it would be really helpful even in church life if we talked as much about that then why I've submit to your husband if you talked as much and husbands love your wives so every time she said love your wife and ask Christ you're all that meant on the cross which is what I'm saying I go God never told me to get on the cross for you so knock yourself out right yeah submit to one another so the whole thing starts with submit to one another and so as but that's the Christian way of doing things so even here we're having a conversation but we're yielding our ideas to one another because that's what it means to be a Christ follower it's I'm not demanding that you see something my way I'm submitting my ideas to you you're submitting yours to me we're submitting to one another this looks different in every marriage and every relationship is different but it seems that even from a woman's standpoint from a woman's perspective um Eve we look at Eve Adam and Eve in the Bible and um it says when after they fell and ate the fruit and disobeyed God one of the things was that God said over the woman was that you will um your desire will be for your husband and I think we want we want things to go a certain way we want our husband to look at us certainly we want us we want things to go a certain way and when they don't it's hard for us to to submit to that and I think there's just that tension in that struggle of desire and reality and the struggle and sin and um and relational just that there's it's just hard and so I think sometimes we just desire for our husbands to respond a certain way and the reality of it is the Bible says that the wife is meant to um respect her husband and the husband is meant to love his wife now I think if the if the Bible said wives love your husbands that would be easy because we naturally love we naturally want to um love and give but to respect is something that I think can be hard because we think oh well you have to earn respect but truly respecting is seeing the the god-given strength and the image of God in the person that is in front of you and I think we have to as women fight to respect and so and I think men have to sometimes fight to love and so to be able to submit in marriage in that way I think there can just be attention but it's beautiful when it's done and when you see marriages flourish in this because it's such a picture of Jesus and his church like it's not because I'm gonna do whatever my husband wants me to do because I want to be a great wife well I'ma Do what whatever my wife wants me to do because I want to be a great husband that's not a great enough motivator after a while but we do it out of love for God we submit one to another like we submit even to Elders we submit like this is a word that we do and this is hard to do but we do that out of love for God for God and it says submitting to one another in the fear of God yeah so it's the realization that God is the one that we're all under that we're all submitting to and even how in Ephesians 5 22 when it says wives submit to your own husbands as to the Lord so there is that there's that love relationship with the Lord where you're just like Lord I will you're my master and my Lord You're My Father you're my king um I will submit to you and with that same relationship that same love approaching your marriage that way and submitting to your husband I just think that that's so key it's the fear of the Lord the love I use the thing ask for the Lord I used to think that meant I have to love my husband the way I love God like I have to almost like background I'm sir leonian and so West African country and so and a lot of different people like watching like immigrant-based families when you there's such a dynamic you have to win a man and wife a lot of our thoughts on submission or whatever it's more cultural than it is biblical wow so how I when I came to marriage and stuff like we were on telling the story it was just part of what I know about scripture a little bit of it but it's part of what I learned from the culture and what it looks like and so that's I think a lot of folks think they have a hard time with submission just the word and they don't want to learn about it they don't want to hear about it right because it reminds them of some relationship that they saw with their parents or their uncles or this whatever and ask to the Lord Sarah called him Lord like all these different things and it's like so if my husband says jump I say how high yeah probably if he said cut your hair I said what like is that what it means because if that's that then I don't want to be married I don't want to submit yeah well it's not bad but a lot of people think that yeah yeah I think in Greek culture I think in lots of things it's like you you in in many of those cultures we're very sort of patriarchal very you bring that in right and so it's not just West Africa I could think Asia in some South America you know European Greek culture um and you have to discern what's biblical yeah what's cultural because it's it's a big deal and if God is the god of a heart yes right he's the he knows what's going on in the inside of us it's that kind of I'm standing up but I'm sitting down on the inside like submission is not a person like growing up in the church clearly I wasn't from an immigrant family but there was a culture in church which looked like she's a submitted woman because look how quiet she is and she smiles when her husband preaches and she she doesn't ask questions and that's a submitted woman I know that was how we were raised and so and then and for many of us as women we never saw women in leadership unless they were married to someone and they had to be a submitted wife to them even at being co-pastors is a very new kind of idea in our generation where a woman and a husband and wife can pass to a church together or a woman can Pastor independently of you know of of her husband those are very new Concepts I mean and I'm a California Christian like we've been we are we ride the line of this is that his denomination can I be happy I think when people hear the word submission they get like what are you talking about like I don't like that word it's such a dirty word it's not a dirty word it's a word used by a holy God it's a good word and I think because people have heard it misused then it just continues to perpetuate this lie that submission is bad submission means that I have to be weak submission means that I have to wear nunnery type clothing and I can't speak of when some when I see um something wrong that's not what it means at all submission it's a military word like it it speaks of order this is God's desire for us and when we read it in context we understand that it's actually a safe word and there's Freedom found in submission we can submit in marriage we can submit and um relationship with Elders because we live a submitted life to God that's the promise of our faith we're no longer Lord no peace Lord and we're submitted to him submitted to His Holy Spirit and that's where it speaks of safety it's not dirty it's not mean it's not condemning it's not archaic no it's a good word it's a really good word my mom was a minister's wife and she was a very she's a very passive personality so it she looked very submissive and she's very like her personality was submissive I know but she wasn't submissive in the home meaning she didn't submit her she was equal to my dad in the home I never felt that she couldn't share her thoughts she wasn't willing to be you know confrontational she needed to be there was an equality in the home but externally you wouldn't know that because of her personality and so when I got into Ministry and life I remember I was a bit like Chris where I would I was just in it for the ministry like you know it is God I'm gonna do what you want me to do and I had even at times thought I had a couple guys that asked me would you want to get married actually two different times in my younger 20s and I was like nope this is the one one was I did and one was like no and one was like my parents like no but by 26 I remember the Lord saying to me what do you want your in your life to look like and I said well I really could imagine myself sitting at a family table I'm Italian you know the Greeks here and thinking about the table being full and he said well if you want to get married if you want that to be your your life you're gonna have to slow down because there's no guy that's going to want to run he's not going to be able to run as fast as you at this moment and try to get your attention when you're like this and so I remember intentionally slowing down not not in a you know uh weird way but in a a fully powerful choice to take a minute to go is there anybody around that I would like to partner with and the picture that God gave me was that I was running a race and I would look over and somebody was running the same race we just see each other running the same race so that required me to slow down what I didn't know was that he probably gotta have me slow down because he's four years younger he was being born it's like God's like let's make this let's make this legal like we need this to be legal but that's why but I think also like that idea yeah right I wanted I needed to marry a human being because I think we have this idea we're wearing this prophetic preacher best friend athlete you know all this craziness we're just like yeah you try that you try to marry that and see how that happens if you think he's that amazing Soul everybody else and so that concept and then I think that idea when I got married I was very much submitted to God first which allowed it to be easier for me to submit to him which didn't mean that we I was powerless and he was powerful it meant that I was able to submit my thoughts because I was already submitting it to God my thoughts my will my desire so yesterday we talked about submission this is how we get a good we get a better marriage I should say again we only get 50 of the vote yeah you have crazy vote you only get 50 but that 50 that you have you get to be very powerful in and that starts in your walk with Christ and then I remember Ben and I we had some really tough years I mean the first five years were brutal we had four kids I was a very intense Italian he's a very even I don't know a lot it was there's a lot of yeah yeah I don't really remember [Laughter] that's how I got pregnant but anyway regardless um but also um he can be very quiet not talkative family and here I was like intense and and Italian and we went at it for many years where I would just feel like I'm losing my mind like what you got you gave me this man I'm supposed to submit to this like this is crazy like obviously the two shall become one I'm the best choice and there was a moment when and this sounds so like really have a little bit I remember this moment of of looking at him in the eyes and we had gone we did our work yeah we did our work like marriage is not a one hit like Wonder I feel like marriage is a daily choice for three months but um but marriage is a yes every day yes and it's a yes to not just sex and desire it's a yes to build a life together I'm not having a sexual moment I'm building a sex life which means it's not great today but it can be great tomorrow because I get tomorrow right it's safety right it's it's security and so I remember at one point I looked at Ben and I said you know babe it's just us against the world as long as you and I are good I really don't care what anybody else thinks yeah and once he knew I really do believe this even if I was his wife as well he probably would have the same experience if he was saying it to me once I knew we were cool together that's what submission looked like was like we are in this together and we were able to almost like link arms and face the world that allowed me to travel as a young mother that allowed me to go to places and he would be with the kids and it allowed us to not be the traditional experience yeah but because we knew exactly as long as you and I are together so people would say well Dad what does your husband think and I could tell they were fishing for it I'm going to see an unsubmitted woman in here and I I would just you're looking for the wrong thing it's not in here I'm not trying to make something happen I'm not trying to override is a powerful man yeah I'm a powerful woman that's able to happen because I'm a powerful man at home that has no problem with me being powerful the three things that are in our yard like our area of responsibility internal like within our relationships is our attitudes choices and feelings those are the three things that I am responsible for when I think about life what I feel about life and what I choose to do in life when I take full responsibility of those three things in my life I get powerful that means anywhere I go I get to own all my feelings all my choices and all my thoughts that's huge so in a relationship that's where you start to stay powerful so you say oh you feel that way that's your emotions and you get to own that and I feel this way guess what you can't make me happy and I can't make you angry when you start to get clear on that life gets so much simpler when we walk in that power of knowing what's ours and what's in our yard all of a sudden we're not overwhelmed with what someone feels or thinks or chooses to do we now get to stay powerful to Steward the three things that are within our control controller our art and that is the best way to keep our power in the midst of relationships I think the submission problem happens when it's like but this thing or this decision goes against my dream or my mission and so and it's like well of course but if you talk about it on the front end of things and I don't think before you get married you can be able to talk about everything right but I can't talk about the big things and it doesn't solve itself this lines up and so I can support that I can come underneath that like we're going somewhere together as opposed to I don't know he's cute 100 right and yeah I think that's really clear like I now again we were not similar people we definitely didn't have similar callings but we had the same surrender to God and I think I mean for those that are watching today like if you are not married and you are thinking you're missing something it is way I believe worse to be alone and than to be in a terrible marriage like I really I think being married would be very terrible marriage is very difficult and I've seasons of that where it feels you feel like I can't I can't get away from this yeah so I've had that feeling but I would say for the women that are watching today that are in that season of like well how do I pick I would say look for a man that's teachable that loves the Lord like a man that's willing to be hear somebody else's opinion yeah and then also willing to hear your opinion and and and they don't have to have it all together but then for those that are listening to this today that are like I'm in a marriage and we're totally opposite spaces yeah I would I would challenge them that um you can still live the Abundant Life without anyone else participating so it doesn't mean that your choices will be look exactly how you want it to be but there is an internal Abundant Life you have to live that doesn't line up with an external happening and that to me is really I've been challenged with that in my own life like I can be happily married not because I married a happy person or not because I'm the happy person I can be happily married because I I'm living yeah have an internal life that I'm I'm building and what I hear you saying though too is um there's room for two leaders in a marriage two leaders who are submitted to the Lord but also submitted to each other and I think I mean I think of well all of us but like for both of you being such strong people yourselves married to strong people like what does that look like for you guys I think I'm still I need to ask questions and we both thought at different temperaments but even like on the Enneagram Nick and I both hates yeah and so no you're not yeah we're both who cares but that's interesting because but we're both so yielded so of course we got married I I was an itinerary evangelist said Nick it's not that like oh I had no idea like it's so and he he when I say similar callings entirely different giftings but it's the same calling of like reaching the world for Christ whatever that might look like we never said this is exactly what it's going to look like and a commitment to one another's complete flourishing so but understanding and especially us because we're older than you all um there was almost nobody in my era like you could count them maybe on a hand women that were the the visible and the man now Nick can't and I always knew I used to laugh and I would say this 30 years ago I'd say oh one day I'll be known as Nick Cain's wife it's just right now um people just don't realize that and then anyone that's with Nick for three minutes and then notice he runs everything you know 19 offices in 19 countries it's all him um but I always knew that when I picked him whatever that that potential was there was a mutual picking um and so it was and I had to know so for me and this will help someone and it won't and your story is going to help others because people need to know oh my gosh I didn't start like Chris and yeah but with us I had to know that I would do more married for the kingdom than single because I'd already I walked out of a to submit to the call of God I left a relationship that was ungodly but I was totally satisfied and I would totally love that person and I thought that was going to be my life wow so I left love sex all of that to follow Jesus so it was not going to be enough yeah of just love and sex that was never going to be enough for me to get married because I'm like I left that I dropped my net of that of what I thought at the time was Optimum to follow Jesus and pursue the call of God for my life so then when and it was during my quiet time um on my 28th when I was 28 I was writing and I had no thought of it I was writing in my prayer Journal as was my practice every day didn't even think about it and literally it was like the Lord took and I wrote and wrote you're going to meet your husband this year I dropped the pen I remember going well it was like so it was as only God could do it because I was so not going down that path and um I was like I was horrified because I didn't even want it because I'm like so Mission and I remember saying to the Lord then I'm doing more single for the kingdom than most married people that I know so I'm not um looking for this anyway as it all happens then I was the director of a youth movement in Australia and Nick and I and I was like getting at that point going God we're either going to break up or get married because you know it was and I said Lord you've got to show me you've got to show me that this is and I went to speak at a youth alive rally and I was in a school hall it was a regional one and there were a thousand kids roughly you know in this rally I was standing at the back of the room and so just burdened by what I was going to do and as I'm standing at the back I felt the Holy Spirit speak to me and quickened me the scripture out of Ecclesiastes one will put a thousand to fight two we'll put ten thousand to play and I felt the Lord say Chris you can do I'll bless you either way if you stay single this will be your fruit and you'll always if you marry Nick you will have ten times the impact for the kingdom married then you will single I needed that because that was like the the thing and so that then because we would have then we had a whole lot of other things to overcome because of my past things that the Lord would deal with but big picture that's what I mean big alignment if we tried to work out in the 90s how does a woman with an Evangelistic preaching gift and a man that is more introverted and you know like it would never work nobody and most and I knew and I needed a secure man because I knew a lot of men sort of looked down their nose at Nick you must be a real weak man really she must be so dominant so the fact that he didn't give a rip yeah and he knew who he was in Christ and had his own identity in Christ I mean the world's progressed a lot in 30 years but back then to be a man you know people you know would say well she was good but it really should have been you up there preaching I mean you could just imagine what it would have been like in those days yeah and he just wasn't clinched truly when Nick and I came together the two did become one flesh now that's an evolving you know it happens over time and we get better at it over time but after 26 years when Nick and I look over the breadth of our life and Ministry and just see all that the Lord's done you know in 19821 officers in 16 countries and Propel in over a hundred countries and the opportunity to be able to proclaim the gospel all over the world and reach millions of people I don't believe that would have happened if we weren't married and there have been times in that uh where you know Nick has made some calls that maybe I thought whoa I hope you were hearing from God and that wasn't bad pizza and well I've had thought that as I've submitted though ultimately unto God and then to Nick it is amazing what God has done truly we are living Ephesians 3 20 as the fruit of that we are living exceedingly abundantly above and beyond anything we could have ever asked hope or thought what's happened is that he has seen what God has done in me and encouraged so when we first got married I was on a television show I was an actress so and just in the church and a part of it and helping make it happen and yeah all of that and then my desire changed so I kind of walked away from the acting thing and and started getting more in church and then the next thing I know I'm it's like like my and I get this word the platformer influence is growing more than my husband's at that point right so then it started and so he but he was never threatened by that he's like you go girl he was so ahead of his time even more you're older than me yeah wow that that was unheard of it was right yeah and he's never flinched in in all the time I've known he and we um had this marriage counselor who's awesome it's interesting she said to me she looked at me and she goes I'm not it's not you I'm committed to and Philip it's not you I'm committed to I'm committed to your marriage beautiful because your marriage is my client oh my gosh that's so powerful really helpful so then she would say things and so what she said knowing how different we were and how uh you know just like wrestling through the submitting to one another concept she said let me put it a different way for you then I went please she said I want you to see each other you are each other's discernment Partners wow so Holly when Philip says we need to slow down and think about something inside you're saying no wait don't and she was right she says yes you do and Philip when she says you need to make a decision now or there'll be consequences you're saying no we don't yes you do so this is where you're that's submitting to one another part to seeing each other as Discerning seeing each other as Holy Spirit discernment partners and that isn't always easy to work out I mean the theory of that is beautiful and I have to talk to Jesus about it but there's a part of me that you know that would go no yes I don't want what you just said but honestly that's how I am sometimes with the holy spirit it's like resisting no because I know what the cost of that's going to be or whatever so but that has been our kind of the dance beautiful that we've had to navigate yes balanced and marriage because I'm saying in mine or just in general let's let's say well I probably I don't think so um because I'm I'm not uh like you know when you gave that picture of the the Christian she's a good submitted woman well I've never been to me so but I think that's a wrong picture yeah like when I look at even Bible women it's like a wrong picture yeah yeah like she she's and honestly if we just go back to the beginning how we were created male and female Adam and Eve created together to take Dominion that's where it all should go back to yeah and so I feel like and what did anything about Jesus what did he do he he elevated yes the marginal he elevated what the enemy had tried to bring down he elevated the picture of what it meant to be partners and so I feel like sometimes people uh read the words and of Jesus Through you know Paul's eyes and I'm saying to do it differently read what Paul wrote Through The Eyes of Jesus marriage relationship is obviously an incredibly intimate one and the two becoming one the interesting thing about that is that two becoming one it's you don't lose your individuality it's too it's two chords you know being strung together that makes it stronger you know I didn't disappear when I married Philip and he didn't disappear were just stronger and sometimes my strengths can irritate him and his strengths can irritate me and so what we've made the decision to see is that we are each other's discernment partners because I can only see what I can see I can't see behind me I have blind spots we all have blind spots and so but Philip can see my buns once and I can see his and so we have we have slowly but surely and it wasn't always easy but got into a place where we we can can communicate this in an honoring way where we can be each other's discernment so what Philip can say to me holly um I'm not I'm wondering if this is the right decision for you to be making now before I used to just go I can't believe in China but now I go okay well I'm gonna pray about that and so I've done the same for him you know Philip I I said you know I just would like you to pray about that friendship because I'm just I'm just wondering about that and so it's not me trying to control him it's not him trying to control me it's just me seeing something that maybe he can't see and he's seeing something that I can't see and we bring it to each other and then I'm an end my own person so I get to make whatever decision I'm going to make but I would be doing it discounting his discernment and so that's where I don't really want to do that make any big decisions that there's not some sort of agreement on so that's where we've kind of have done this dance of being each other's discernment Partners it's not always easy but I think it makes us stronger I love what you said even that the marriage was the best when you remain powerful it kind of speaks to the whole picture like I think a lot of people that struggle with submission it's like you're trying to recreate a picture that you hate exactly yeah you don't like that marriage like you don't think that woman that's really docile and bless the Lord and all that because you don't think that she has personality you don't like that person you don't like that and so you're trying to recreate this thing and your body's like I don't want to and it's like what if that's the wrong picture exactly yeah like what if that's the and I I think for me I've there's been so much growth first it's that whole submissive like yes what do you want okay dinner okay cool I'm gonna have dinner I'll be tired but I am gonna have dinner ready for you every single night and I'm gonna clean up the house I mean I was that person wow that's what I thought that marriage was like okay and also my contacts my husband was the pastor yeah right so there's all these different times I was messed up thank you therapy sure yes and so then until my husband was like you seem stressed out and I was like well I'm trying to be a submitted wife [Laughter] he was like I'd rather the house be messy totally and you and I just connect yeah and you and I just relax rather you order doordash and I said first of all say less yeah [Laughter] and I just started relaxing and then I started also having an opinion sometimes I would feel like there's something that God would call me to say about this certain situation but being a submitted wife meant that I had to be silent I'm supposed to win them over but my side like all these different scriptures and pictures wrong pictures and it's like no speak up right you Stephen's not going to accomplish everything that God has for him without you yes and that Vice that's the truth and and and at the same time it's like speaking the language that someone hears so so if you were fluent in in Spanish English right so I'm gonna use the Spanish thing but it's just like so with Phil I'm going to speak man in the sense that I'm going to speak in a way that he hears and that's not just I don't know who I'm speaking the language that he hears and so I've learned my husband right so that's the part of Mutual submission I was like I speak the language that he hears so instead of me telling him what I think I often come in because this is him this is my husband I come in and I'll say can I tell you what I think about that yeah right and then he and he goes yeah because he understands that I'm going to see things he doesn't see so he goes yes and then he's learned to speak Holly right so he's learned to say things like if he would if he tries to control me yeah that's never going to work right so he's learned to go here's a suggestion here's two ideas which one do you think would be better he's learned to speak me and so I think that's that part of of mutual submission is understanding the person that you are married to yeah right instead of trying to say it how you would say it yeah how will they understand you yeah I'm really glad that you guys can hear that I know and I will say this I remember one time I had been going to counseling and getting stronger and learning my power is raised in a church that you know I was taught that I was I was in charge of everyone's happiness and how they liked me now they saw me and so that of course take me to postpartum depression but long story short remember one time I had been this Modern Woman I watched my mom make my dad dinner and bring him his food and I went to school my mother and I said you know Mom Dad has two legs he can get up and get his own food you did not oh I did okay modern you know woman and my husband and I are a team and I'm trying to explain my mom's team and my mother and her you know Southern she's like a California farm girl weighs looks at me and she says havilah I like doing this for your father and when she said it I knew she was saying I'm still powerful I actually have chosen to do this so don't don't look at my myself as a powerlessness yeah there are some women that are watching today that look submissive because they they feel powerful right does that make sense so it's different it's again the heart behind the everything that we're doing yeah and so the language of submission that's and she does it because he loves it he's Italian he loves the food he loves that's his language so again staying powerful I think is how we stay submitted you might be listening right now just I don't want to lose myself in marriage I don't want to lose myself in that archaic term cause submission and I dare say your picture perhaps of submission is off I dare say that submission is actually a place of strength and it's easy to submit when again you've picked a partner that that you believe in their mission and maybe you're already in a relationship you're already in a marriage and it's just it's hard it's rough you're finding it difficult to submit and I want to encourage you that you don't you shouldn't get louder and try to push your way now Bible actually says that when we submit our spouses that we can they can be won over by the way we respond by the way we act and it starts with just submission to the Lord and in the fact that he's fighting our battles we don't have to fight our battles ourselves we don't have to continue life but so much on us all the time we can actually relax and Trust our spouse and trust the Lord that he is fighting for us and so I challenge you watching right now to relax a little bit but if you think Jesus like he humbled himself yes he got down and washed stinky feet I mean he he he like he's the picture yeah right and so I think and he was still God and he was banned and so I think sometimes like I don't want to do this it's like but who's your example um You Know You're Not Gonna Lose Yourself by doing this right it's so fun earlier I would do things begrudgingly and then after I'm like okay God help me give me the heart to serve it started totally yeah so I Started Loving serving my husband not because I had to but God gave me this heart too and that Heart for Service like it just did wonders for our um for our marriage and even one thing I think that um pastoring the church now there's so many women so many single women and many of them just don't want to get married and um because of what they think being a wife totally would do like how it's gonna remove like their calling and all of this stuff like you you all past our church do you see like the um the the plight of the the woman now in church like do you all experience that definitely definitely and I think it's it's both guys and girls of just kind of not even sure of what that means and what that looks like and kind of being scared of of the respect love commitment submission thing and I think that we get the opportunity to to show to demonstrate and like a healthy yeah healthy the healthy way yeah we should pray for us yeah um Jesus yes Jesus she's got in this area so many of us um we're doing well and yet so many of us God we struggle when it comes to submission in our marriages yeah some of us have great pictures Lord God to to see and to replicate and some of us we just don't have anything I pray God that you would put the right images in our heads or they wouldn't even reread the Bible Lord gather the scriptures and the women come alive I pray father for anyone that's discouraged in marriage right now I send someone watching right now that just senses just there's hopelessness God no no no hoping you never disappoint yeah I pray father God that you will strengthen that you will give wisdom that you will give hope God that you will give energy God can Earthly if someone here that they feel as if that they're um that they're in a situation God that it's not submission this is abuse I pray God that you give them even the the courage Lord God to step out and to get helped yes God pray for the singles Lord God that are watching a bit discouraged they're going to talking about marriage again and it seems something that we want but something I can never attain I pray God that you mind them the no good thing you withhold oh God so them they'll walk uprightly I pray father that everyone underneath the sound of our voice watching on television on YouTube God just watching across the world that they would be filled with hope yes Lord we can submit Lord God and marriage is God because we're submitted underneath you yes God we love you we honor you we trust you we say help us oh God and we know that right now you're doing just that and it's in Jesus name we pray amen amen amen come on at TBN our mission is to use every available means to reach as many individuals and families as possible with the life-changing Gospel of Jesus Christ thank you for helping make the gospel of grace go around the world and it's because of you that partner with us that this ministry continues God bless you

Channel: Better Together on TBN

Views: 69,704

Keywords: havilah cunnington, havilah cunnington sermons, havilah cunnington boundaries, better together tv, better together tv full episodes, submission in marriage, submission in the bible, ephesians 5 explained, submission ephesians 5, wives submit to your husbands sermon, husbands love your wives, holly wagner, zai chandler, jennie lusko, christien caine, god, jesus, bible, christianity, submitting to god, christian living, living a life according to jesus, bible verse on submission

Id: NEMzWi5O8oo

Length: 50min 18sec (3018 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 03 2023