Have We Reached Peak Stupidity? - Destiny (4K)

you just did Pi Morgan um well I it was like a live segment from this morning sure yeah okay yeah how was that is that the first time you spoken to him yeah all right what did you think uh it was okay it could have been way worse it could have been way better they brought me in it was a segment on like um the difference between like Trump and Biden and their senility basically is Biden cility going to be a huge problem and my opposite person is like Tommy Lauren and it's a very much like mainstream media opinion like or mainstream media appearance so it's like give me your like 30C splur give me your 30 second splur and then next question and I hate back and forth like drives me crazy so well I mean it says everything that we're having a discussion about who is the most scile among all of the different politicians that might influence the future yeah do a lot but at the end of the day the voters only have themselves to blame so that's true but then I guess you can only vote for the people that are there no there's a lot of people to vote for these are the two most popular ones I think that the system is delivering the people that have the widest support right now yeah right people they might not be um universally liked but you only have to have a plurality of the support to make it through like people are looking at you like ah I guess like sure but people might not like them like 80% of people might not like Biden or 80% of people might not like Trump but those 80% of people don't all agree on who should run instead so that's the issue right yeah interesting I wonder if people could coordinate better whether or not you would have uh better outcomes I don't know Vice media shutting down no longer publishing have you seen this are they shutting down or they just not going to publish articles on that website anymore that's technically what it is a memo to Vice employees Thursday CEO Bruce Dixon said that the company will be cutting several hundred jobs in the next week as part of its major restructuring Vice will discontinue publishing content to its own website and instead we'll put more emphasis on our social channels as we accelerate our discussions with Partners to take our content to where it will be viewed most broadly what do you think cool I guess Does anybody read like website stuff from Vice I feel like they were most known for the YouTube video content like the investigative Journal stuff I should know the lady's name I wish I did but she does really cool stuff remember she she went to China to investigate the weaker stuff yes um she like she does a lot of cool stuff uh there there are a couple cool things on Vice in terms of what I've seen for video content I don't read their website as much so I don't know I mean Vice is one of those things where when you do see articles shared it's usually like rage sharing you know white people can't suffer racism or like some some something that seems to be purposefully that almost like rage trigger people to click on it sure but I have definitely enjoyed me some Vice documentaries 20 minute 30 minute you know lunchtime viewing things on YouTube I've seen one there's a bunch that they do about party culture in the UK about like aging rag ravers like people still doing drugs in their 50s 60s 70s like classic Larry British people okay so that's good but I don't know I just wonder you know you just did Pi Morgan Tucky Carlson has left his sort of mainstream credentials behind and moved independent Pi is leaving talk TV and going to basically be a full-time YouTuber essentially although it'll probably be a little bit more advanced than that I don't know it just seems like there's some interesting movements maybe it's more so in the video side of things but you know that was vice's written content and that's being pivoted what do you think what's the state of modern media landscape and what do you thinks in the future I don't know it's different from different perspectives as an as a content creator my guess is going to be alternative media is probably a lot more money uh mainstream media is probably a lot more exposure that'd be my guess um in terms of are we moving towards a more alternative media landscape where everybody's consuming alternative media that's kind of already happening or has already happened in some ways mainstream media has kind of integrated itself into alternative media so people might get all of their for instance their news through Facebook or Twitter but that might be coming in the form of headlines from mainstream media Publications yes um I would definitely say it feels like we've moved past especially with Tucker Carlson leaving it feels like we've moved past the age of the pundit where you had these like huge like Larger than Life figures like the Anderson Coopers the um the Tucker Carlson's the Bill O'Reilly's the John Stewart I guess is back now he just pivoted back yeah um well he tried to go to Apple and there was some editorial differences I think that caused issues at Apple and then he'd wanted to bring up some stuff to do with China and that wasn't allowed and yeah he ended up basically going full circle back to somewhere that oddly had more freedom or at least editorial freedom I think as far as he was concerned yeah um yeah I don't I have no idea where the I think we have huge issues in our media landscape right now I don't think they're necessarily tied into mainstream versus alternative but I know that that's what everybody's fixated on um what is the what should people be more concerned about then with regards to Media landscape epistemic grounding uh we live in like completely different worlds more today than we ever have that's probably true every single day that our factual understanding of the world has diverged so much between the different like groups that it's becoming unworkable or maybe has already become unworkable such that I think I think it was finally when the Jewish space lasers were clearing out real estate for Oprah in Hawaii that I realized I was like oh my God nothing can happen anymore as it is there we're we're we're past anything ever happening that just happens there are going to be no more normal plane crashes there are going to be no more diseases there are going to be no more vaccines it's all going to be a conspiracy it's all going to be a secret missile attack it's all going to be a secret Jewish super weapon it's all going to be a secret Bill Gates microchip like nothing can happen in anymore without it being part of some Grand narrative or grand design which I think is really sad why why um like what's the undercurrent that's driving that is it just a multiplicity of different people being able to comment on it is it the fact that free access to information means that everyone has a different perspective on the same story is it the fact that there's no centralized uh flow of information which is giving someone like the narrative somebody sent me an email a while ago that I thought was really interesting I think it was just his idea I think he called it like the mag Magic Box idea or something and basically I think as humans we become further and further separated from the actual things that are happening with everything that we interact with so for instance um if I do the oldest example you're with like an abacus right right yeah like I can see the math happening there I know exactly what's happening you can't lie to me about an advocus okay um if I have a calculator it's a relatively simple device it only does math I can see exactly what's going on as the devices become more and more complicated and you become and less aware of what's Happening under the hood becomes easier for you to insert more random stuff that you're not aware of so like nobody thought that an abacus would track you nobody really thought a calculator would but is your phone tracking you is it listening to every single word you're saying even with no evidence presented for any of these ideas of which they're never has been that your phone is secretly listening to you and recording stuff and blah because a lot of people on Tech sites have like tried to investigate this people still think it and I think that that example with phones can be blown up to literally everything from carburated to F injected cars from bureaucratic organiz organizations that might just like manage a local level thing to the FDA that does you know vaccine approval on a nationwide level from from literally every single thing in our life things that we used to look at and kind of understand things have gotten so so so complicated that I think that people are kind of starting to fill in the blanks very easily and quickly with a lot of other stuff there's no real way to like argue against them you know ah and you will slot into it stuff that just fits your prior your biases some half remembered truth or some whim or hearsay and you just sort of throw this into the workings the Abacus example whoever gave you that's that's a really smart thought of that on the spot really Destiny original no that was me you got a destiny original analogy right on the spot okay this is some real [ __ ] right here but no yeah it's you can see the working you can see step by step what's laid out in front of you but people weren't given the workings of what was happening in government or in war or in news previously there was still a degree of opaqueness to what was happening so what is it that's different between 100 years ago and now I think that ironically enough the people that seem to have the biggest problems with liberalism with like freedom and everything so I'd say the anti-institutional people that are like well we need to bring back religion and kind of like conservative social values whatever I think that they've to some extent Fallen to be the biggest victims of I hate to say this it's weird because I'm a liberal like too much liberalism too much freedom and that there's probably some important guard rails that kind of keep us in track or in check about like how we need to live our life like in in a given like tribe it's probably good if there's like shame around like eating poop or having like sexual attraction towards children or trying to stab and kill somebody like there are some socially cohesive elements that are good that we all kind of like enforce these things to kind of keep everybody a little bit in line um whereas today because we have so much Freedom with the internet which is the thing that has changed our life more than anything else in the past 20 and 30 years nobody wants to talk about it they just talk about it's either feminism or it's red pill or it's space lasers or it's uh Biden in the Deep state but the internet has dramatically changed for in such a quick per time period such a quick time period right when I was in grade school cell phones didn't really exist not really not like they do today um things have changed so much and now people have the ability to select for their world way more than they ever did and that is incredibly damaging because there's some amount of friction that is incredibly healthy for the human mind it's good to be able to step into a room look look at like grade school or high school or college everybody manages to make friends but it's not because they all swipe right on each other to get the perfect match up qualities just because when humans spend time together they learn to ease the friction and they kind of get along with each other but now that we have the ability to hyper select for every single [ __ ] thing that we want it is I think it's incredibly damaging to the human mind because it lets us select for too many things that we no longer have to uh become comfortable with like an example I would use is that like uh you know if 30 years ago if I really wanted to [ __ ] my toaster I'm probably not going to [ __ ] it that much I'm probably not going to talk about it that much absolutely not um and I don't even know if I'd be able to find like a like a anybody or any camaraderie it would just be really rough but today I could probably type in like toaster [ __ ] recommendations and get like the top 10 models ranked from like quickest to slowest orgasm for like toaster that I want to [ __ ] and now I've got like a whole world of people that all support my toaster [ __ ] Ambitions and that's it's funny for the toaster [ __ ] thing but when we talk about like vaccines or covid or education or the FDA or the Deep state or Andrew T or any of these things well now it gets like really scary and that's the world we're in where you can select for your reality rather than having to deal with the reality that might not be as much fun to deal with right so it allows Echo Chambers to continue to propagate there was something you may have seen this someone explained where Emos went and they basically talked about the lack of development of subgroups that they kind of come together briefly and then sort of fracture off into other I mean you'll remember like Emos and Goths and like there was genuine C Ed subgroups maybe they only existed for five years or something but they were there right there was like an actual they had an identity and they had dress and they had all the rest of the stuff but I wonder whether the sort of universality of everybody trying to optimize for the same things which is really like clicks and attention online no matter who you are even if you're just like some Normy person that that wants to have like more fans and more friends on Instagram and be more popular in school or have a better Snapchat streak or whatever the hell it is I wonder whether there is something about this universal currency of status where everyone eventually has to play that game cuz there's only a few routes to be able to be successful within that one thing and the same thing is going to be true of your ability to sense make like there's only so many different paths that you can have to be able to reach that or to be able to be successful as a [ __ ] newscaster or to be able to be successful and catch attention online so I wonder I wonder how much of this is just people trying to trying to make sense of the world and instead what they do is find things that confirm their biases and then just sit and steep in those groups but for some reason it doesn't seem to cese in the same way that it used to that's it's really interesting to say that because I have another theory or idea on how Society is like kind of falling apart not falling apart splitting apart um and it plugs into that perfectly and that I think that people aren't fundamentally different today than they have been for the past 100 thousand years we're all humans we have more or less the same materials yeah the the biggest thing that I think has changed there's two things happening right now and that we're becoming more separated than we ever have been and more similar than we ever have been and the way that I feel like this is working is people are with drawing into two separate groups that are enforcing Within These groups an insane amount of homogeneity and I think the reason why this is happening is because it feels like our communities have gotten larger and larger and larger and larger and larger so for instance um it might be that maybe 30 or 40 years ago maybe I super identify with the kids in my neighborhood um you know because when I was growing up the people that you hung out with was whoever you could walk to or when you were old enough we have a good bike to this is your community these are the people that you hang out with um you develop ideas you develop intense at least for me like high school rivalries between football teams between like 20 yeah that like that's like your community um and then when you get a little bit older maybe you identify as an adult with your neighborhood maybe identify with a city that you're in or a political group in your city or sports team or whatever I think that these were maybe it might be like older it might have been like a churches or unions that you're in um these are the things that I think people identified with and they have they enforce a lot of homogeneity in these groups which is probably normal to some extent right you're going to want people around you to be very similar that's just normal hang around with people that with who you are yeah yeah um and that could mean appearance and race it could mean ideology it could me yeah it could be a billion different things people relate on a lot of lels of religion but today what's happened is the internet has made it so that the smaller groups are not really fun to be in they don't really feel important they don't feel impactful or meaningful so instead what happens is is the group that you're belonging to is larger and larger and larger forcing homogeneity on a neighborhood that you live in where I'm from Omaha Nebraska is a lot different than forcing hom gen it on you know 160 million people in the United States versus the other 160 million people so um to draw back to kind of what you were saying earlier is that as these groups become larger and larger it's harder I think it feels like it's harder to have these certain types of subcultures and everything because everybody's part of like this Global culture now which is all enforced by um and facilitated by the internet right and then but you also have it's interesting you say both becoming more similar and more different yeah and that we're getting further apart because he's different groups are flying away from each other at the speed of light yes um but Within These groups you have to have a cohesive opinion you have to have an OP if you're if you work in a warehouse in Alabama you still have to have an opinion on whether or not Leah Thomas can be an athlete in in college or whether you you know if you work in or live in Seattle you need to have an opinion on AOC or if you live in LA you need to have an opinion on whether we should be supporting Ukraine or Israel and like yeah these the huge Global culture has extended beyond the neighborhoods and the churches to include everybody yeah everybody has a phone or the internet the number of things that you need to have an opinion on or the number of things that you're exposed to has increased the level of Purity and agreement within the group that you need to adhere to in order to not be ostracized by the group has also increased a little bit I think that is a I would say that that's probably like an artifact so it feels like you have to be more pure but it's not really that you have to be more pure it's just that there are so many more issues that you probably have to more there's more ways to get wrong so like yeah yeah exactly like for instance like 20 years ago uh I don't know if there would have been a social group enforcement on like the type of beer that you're drinking but after the whatever the trans budlight stuff was or Budweiser stuff was that might be part of your group now it's not that they've gotten more peer and that they demand more rigidity to the ideas than they used to it's said now there are more ideas that you have to adhere to basically yeah so it appears like they're more pure but it's just more stuff that you have to keep in mind yeah I think Bud Light is a really fascinating little Canary in the coal mine of sort of modern culture and I've had a number of conversations about this where when budlight happened it was a huge big deal budlight was almost like a a simulacrum for America it's like see this is something that used to be pure and and and and and patriotic and it was it was trucks and Eagles and all of see what's happened these these wokies have come along and they've they've annihilated it and and and all the rest of it and then full circle only when was that 12 months ago 18 months ago it wasn't more than two years ago when that happened with Dylan milany right it was in the last two years and now you Kid Rock the guy that shot the [ __ ] cans with an AR-15 he's drinking it on I B $1,000 of stock I think like the day after all that broke and I yeah I beat the market it was obvious like so stupid right yeah I posted those games on Twitter I was like thanks conservatives yeah what did it go where did you go from and to how far is that I don't I don't remember what didone beat this but it's moved it's moved a good amount yeah uh but yeah and it just seems to me the speed with which people will f finger wave for or against something and then forget the position that they held so vehemently I really really have a huge problem with people that are like so adamant that a thing is true and then only shortly after that a so adamant that a thing is either no longer true or they don't recognize what they said before without at least going do you know what it is maybe budlight weren't the you know like libtard wokies that I thought that they were maybe that was just one malignant um marketing campaign that that went or or whatever like just show your working like show your thinking to take you from where you were to where you are because it just sounds an awful lot like wherever the tide sort of comes in and wherever the tide goes out that you kind of get ripped along with it and I don't know it's one of the reasons why I'm quite skeptical of people who don't caveat much about what they say if you speak in absolute like You' better be certain because my threshold to speak with that amount of certainty that I know that this company is one thing or I know that this company is another thing it's like it's pretty high so you either don't know what you're talking about or have done tons of work which should be evident in the way that you speak about it uh I have lots of ideas about this um the first thing so the first thing to be a criticism of people in general it feels like nobody's capable of having a moderate reaction to anything uh I'm going to be honest when I saw the Bud Light stuff and the I thought it was cringe but like that's not a reaction that people can have anymore it's either the worst [ __ ] thing in the world or it's like the most important foundational Bedrock part of LGBT I like nothing can just be like oh that was kind of dumb oh that was kind of cring I kind of like that it has to be zero to 100 that so that's really annoying um a second thing is uh let's see changing opinions or people that felt like they had strong opinions about one thing that have changed dramatically uh these are two things I talk to my stream a lot about these things watching the evolution of my parents' beliefs politically has been unreal to me um my dad my mom and my dad uh my mom is from Cuba uh so she's a Cuban immigrant very uh pro-american people in general very Pro Republican people we all cried when alien Gonzalez got shipped back to Cuba under Bill Clinton and hated him and blah blah blah um my mom and dad are very patriotic okay 20 years in the Air Force for both of them my dad when if you joined the military in the United States it's probably true in every country in the world when you join the military you get a ton of vaccines okay you just they up and down the line it's like 20 shots you don't even know what you're getting injected right that's what they do uh my dad actually had a vaccine injury and his deltoid such that um he can't really raise his arm very well like past this level and that he gets like paid disability from the Air Force from that it's a real injury from vaccines okay despite that when we grew up you had to get your vaccine it was a non-negotiable my mom would never even think for two seconds that like her children would not be vaccinated it would it wouldn't even be a second thought um today think we've had three family members so far die from Co my mom will not get any of the co shots and I don't think she trust any vaccines at all anymore um so the evolution of her belief on that has been crazy and I'm sure there's a lot of rep that have followed the same path the evolution of the treatment of Russia when I grew up I heard all about the chicoms the Chinese Communists I heard all about uh you know red China and the Soviets she would always refer to Russia as a Soviet Union um and today for her opinion on you know the Russia like ah I guess whatever Stevie but it's not our deal we don't have to be concerned with it whatever um that's insane to me the difference in treatment between the demeanor of the president I remember my mom came home one day uh and she was crying over the Monica Lewinsky stuff and I didn't understand it I was super young at the time um and she was trying to tell me that like you don't understand like the president is the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces the way that he treats women that rolls down to everybody and my commanding officer is going to treat me this way I already have to deal with all this sexism in the Air Force and then for her to listen to those Trump grabbing by the [ __ ] tapes so she's like come on Stevie boys will be boys it happens it's not a big deal blah blah blah that is yeah that that yeah that's wild pivot yeah it's insane to me um there's two there's two underlying things here two really important things to keep in mind that have taken me too long to figure out one is that people people don't genuinely uh generate beliefs from some consistent underlying system they inherit constellations of beliefs that all kind of rely on each other from social groups so if you join a social group that says um like Andrew Tate is innocent they probably also think that Donald Trump is a victim of the deep state that there's a swamp that needs to be drained they think that the election was stolen they think that the vaccines are fake they think that space lasers probably did have something to do with Hawaii um they don't trust the FDA um they think that um we shouldn't be wasting time with Russia and Ukraine and Putin is probably more on the right than we want to admit they they they have all these beliefs that are part of the conti and it's it's true for the left as well I'm not like I'm bullying people on the right but it's true for the left as well um that they have these these constellations as well but the the thing that bothers me the most and then I'm sorry I'm wrapping this up I had yeah the thing that bothers me the most is um I did this for a little bit and then I stopped because it was truly depressing I thought that people are just kind of dumb they don't do any research or homework you get these like constellations of beliefs you don't realize how wrong you are so what I started to do was for big content creators if you're going to make a big claim and your job is alternative media bet some [ __ ] money on it okay if you think that Trump is going to win and your 99% shirt 99% you should be able to give me 50 to1 odds then on 100 bucks you're 99% sure one to 99 okay sure when I started making Bets with people on stuff like that I expected people to tell me to [ __ ] off or I expected people to take the bet because they were overconfident but a third thing started happening that was incredibly surprising to me that actually aligns with you know Peter B goian yes yeah it aligns with a lot of the stuff I've seen him do somebody will say something like Trump is winning the next election 99% and I'll be like oh okay do you want to bet I'll I'll take $1,000 and if I'm right you pay me 100 Grand okay cuz you're that confident and instead of telling me to [ __ ] off instead of saying you know whatever what they actually do is they start to speak and all of a sudden I realize they have all the information in their brain they're like well hold on he could get sick and die he could have some cility issues he is old maybe for some of the indictments he might have done stuff other stuff could come out uh like it's it's not even that they are afraid of the bet or they just like immediately tell me to [ __ ] off it's they actually do have the information there they're capable of exercising the the critical thought process they just don't most of the time because of the social pressures for our belief systems that was the really and I stopped doing I was like this is insane wait so you know all this you know all of the reasons why what you said before was dumb it just took somebody to put a quantitative value on your conviction for you to appropriately scale back your belief that crazy and why was that so depressing to you because I was just told me they were dumb not that like not that they actually had all the information but they were choosing not to apply it I remember when I I debated Glenn Greenwald recently um who's a hack who the only reason you've ever heard his name before is because he happened to be the journalist that Edward Snowden want to to dump the uh Snowden papers okay um and we were debating and he was bringing up it was over the January 6 Trump stuff and he was bringing up I studied his videos I studied the arguments I read the papers I know all the [ __ ] arguments and he brings up like oh well there was an elector scheme in Hawaii and you know they and now they're doing another one and it's the same thing and I'm like hold on the elector scheme in Hawaii the state legislature approved both those slates of electors I won't go to the details but I didn't actually say that I was like well hold on wait the Hawaii thing what do you mean by bringing up the Hawaii thing and then he actually went into detail about the Hawaii thing I was like wait so you knew what was going on here but you still brought it up as a comparison because he because once you bring up all the facts it's completely different from the Trump thing so yeah my my VI on people as like an internet debater try to change people's minds things has shifted a lot over the years where at first thought like people are kind of dumb and they are they fall into a lot of these bad thought processes and thought patterns and cognitive biases and blah blah blah and we do have those but people are actually a lot smarter than I think people realize and if you treat a person as smart and you present them with the right information and you try to break them out of like an echo chamber or this epistemic circularity that they get caught in I think people can surprise you there just has to be that push to do it and a recognition that like you're not misunderstanding this because you're stupid it's because there's an immense amount of social pressure that's like boxing you into this thought PN in other news this episode is brought to you by element element is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't it's a healthy alternative to sugary electrolyte drinks and it will improve your hydration you don't need to have caffeine 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wielding [ __ ] like I'm going to come for you and I'm going to tear you down I'm going to make you look stupid it's going to be filled with sardonic comments and all the rest of it but I think that that activates whoever you're speaking to's defense system that's the antibodies just come up I don't want to be made to look like a complete idiot so I'm just going to Stand My Ground And I think that sure there's times where ridicule is useful tool and you can use that to kind of oh my God like that discomfort kind of kicks you out of stuff but for the most part because people just embed themselves into their beliefs especially if the fear is I'm going to look stupid or lose status if I get this wrong that actually going okay well tell me about that so just walk me through your thinking and being a little bit more gentle So Soft signal of Effectiveness being most of the guys that are the the real hardcore vement piss-taking people I don't I don't think that they change Behavior particularly well and the question is what is it that you're trying to achieve with this communication that you're having are you actually trying to get a good outcome of bringing people closer to something appropriating truth or are you trying to look cool and dunk on the other person during this discussion yeah yeah and then you have to be mindful of so much about like they're changing their mind too uh this is something that I kind of bring up but it feels kind of bad to do this but like if I'm debating somebody who let's say somebody like Ben Shapiro okay who I respect is an intelligent person he's clearly intelligent he's done really good with his company but Ben Shapiro is a pundit on The Daily wire and he's the part owner of the daily wire which is a conservative news Outlet his livelihood to some extent depends on him remaining in the good graces of a conservative audience so if if two studies were to come out tomorrow the largest studies of all of mankind prove that socialism and socialized Healthcare are the best things to you know increase the standards of living for everybody for somebody like me because I'm not like I don't have a necessarily a political alignment I can say like oh I changed my mind these are like cool I I follow this now but if you're a hardcore dug in on the conservative side it's going to be really hard to change your mind on that because that that's not what people are coming to you for is to just hear your unique take something they want a little bit of the reinforcement of the um I don't want to say the echo chamber therein but a little bit of the reinforcement of like the social constellation of ideas they've inherited and then I'm going to start use more leftly examples all your conservatives are feeling very bullied and your H right now same thing with on the left that like when uh when research and data was coming out that for a while we got way too hyped up on the trans kid stuff okay personally I still think that there is a strong argument for people under the age of 18 to have medications made available to them um and that's a whole other thing you get into but people got way too gung-ho about it and you need to be willing to critically accept research that might not reinforce that position and a lot of people on the lamp wrote totally unwilling to hear or see any data that might say that like oh you know um assistance rates might be like this or giving medication these people might not produce the best outcomes or some of these studies aren't the best that we're using for this particular thing um yeah people people have a really hard time accepting information sometimes that is contrary to their you know their belief system and well it's part of the acceptance within the group and then it's also a you can think of it kind of like a smooth ball right if you've just accepted this worldview wholesale that it's very easy I don't need to do a turn of sense making myself I'm going to be accepted by the group any hole that you pick in one of those things well what does this say about my opinion on immigration or on gun rights or on abortion or on how we should deal with the Ukraine or on the sense of agency or what we should do with socialized Healthcare all of these things sort of start to crack and crumble underneath the pressure of one of these threads becoming unpicked basically yeah and and more importantly because of the way that it works as a constellation and not they're that they're all uniquely generated they all are kind of self-reliant on each other yes um it can't be the case that um oh God my the past six months has been fighting with conservatives over Trump so that's all my example I'm so sorry okay listen progressives have big problems too but it just can't be the case that the FDA is trustworthy that can never be the case because if that's the cas the whole premise of the FDA being untrustworthy has to do with the concept of the deep state it has to do with the government being against us it has to do with Pharmaceuticals being corrupt it has on top top it's they're the they're all like it's like a Jenga Tower but there's no Foundation they all find a way to keep the blocks in the air yeah and you can't pull anything out because wait that does because everything would completely totally fall apart and the problem when you're in a social group is you can't have an in congruency of Applied ideas because that implies that you have an INR and fundamental values what you mean the applied ideas as in if I'm with a group of conservatives and I say I believe in affirmative action and a $15 an hour minimum wage and the conservatives go okay well you're you're an idiot you uh want to destroy the economy and you're uh you know bigotry of low expectations for B okay I don't care what like our values are fundamentally different so our applied positions are obviously going to be different I'm I'm for and this isn't my personal position like I'd say like oh well I'm for a minimum wage of from action you're not but that's of course our applied positions are way different we have a difference in values but if I'm next to somebody that is near me ideologically or or supposedly identical to me ideologically well if we start to um if we start to separate on applied positions so maybe I believe that um we need to build more housing to help homeless people and somebody else says well we need to uh enact strict rent control to keep rents down if we have a disagreement there that person isn't going to attack me on the applied position he's not going to say oh you want to build more housing rent control is obviously better that person is going to go to the core belief and he's going say oh well you hate homeless people now the core belief attack from somebody close to me hurts a lot more than from the conservative like wait hold on I don't hate homeless people right and I'm sure it's same for you in a manosphere well you're not I don't I know you've branched up from that but like if you think of like a manosphere or like a red pill person if they're on a show with a bunch of feminists and like you hate women and you're damaging to men and blah blah blah yeah you're a feminist obviously we disagree but if it's two red pillars disagreeing with each other like I think that your advice is horrible for young men you're not advocating for them or whatever it's like wait what the [ __ ] do you mean that's my whole plot what do you mean I'm not advocating for them now you've got a huge disagreement I think this is called I think it's called the it might be called the bigotry of small differences but basically that the the closer somebody is to you ideologically these little differences seem to yeah get super exag I've seen this there's a a really good little process that I went through a friend asked me how do you know if the content creator that you're consuming is someone that you can trust basically how do you know if they're trustworthy and the same thing is true I think for friends you can actually use this for friends just as easily as for Content creators the answer subcribe to my channel youtube.com/ yeah yeah that that would help uh but first one when was the last time that this person surprised you with an opinion uh second one when was the last time that they publicly admitted that they were wrong about something uh third one is does their in group bind together of the mutual love of their in group or the mutual hatred of an outg group and then the fourth one was do they speak to people with differing points of views and value sets for reasons other than mocking them and if you go through those four steps and there's probably like a million others that just like kind of obvious ones for me uh there's no one really that triggers at least a few of those that is also a shider like it's very rare unless they're doing it performatively and playing some 5D chess um it's very rare that someone goes through those things and I think that even using that for yourself whether you're someone that creates [ __ ] online or just wants to be able to make sense of the world thinking okay when was the last time that I admitted that I was wrong when was the last time that I had an opinion that people would have probably been surprised by when was the last time that I consumed a piece of content that I probably going to disagree with do the people that I hang around with do we mostly talk about things that are shared values or shared hatreds that's just a nice little process to go through and that's helped me you know we consume content too like the people that make it also consume it you know you're sat waiting for an Uber or doing whatever you're waiting for someone to arrive and you're like I'll see I'll watch Taylor Len versus the libs of Tik Tok lady uh and I'll see what goes on and you you start to form opinions about this sort of stuff so I think it's important like that's just a really nice self-correcting mechanism or at least like a process that you can go through that helps yeah I definitely I super agree yeah I would add on to that for um for for an individual that's listening to this or for Content creators or whatever too um something that I've helped a lot is don't try to free yourself from biases I think that this is a Fool's errand and I think it lurs you into a false sense of security I think it's better to just be aware of like cognitive pitfalls and then try to correct for them afterwards so for instance you mentioned that thing about getting obs people will dig in I absolutely dig my [ __ ] heels in I will and if I don't like you enough and if we're arguing passionately enough I'll argue that 2 plus 2 equals 5 if I disagree with you that much and I know that about myself and I know that that's the thing I'm not going to claim that that doesn't happen and I'm not going to spend my entire life trying to make it so that that doesn't Happ I'm not going to get mad I'm not goingon to mad but instead what it'll do is listen when I argue I get heated I know that but the next day if I get a big argument I'm going to review it because when I'm removed from the argument over 24 hours now I can go over and like okay did this person make a good point feel like I didn't have a good response to this like do I need need to strengthen my argument were they better on some things and I need to just like take parts of their argument like being able to um correct for biases rather than to try to eliminate them is a way healthier mindset when I was doing research as well on certain podcasts [ __ ] the conservative comes again but like for um Dr Malone the guy who said he was the father of the MRNA vaccine when he was on Joe Rogan um before I started doing research and I would do a lot of this on stream um I would write at the top of a notepad for claims I want to write the first thing I would write is I do not like Joe Rogan's opinion on vaccines I don't trust Dr Robert Malone at all the reason why I write these two things down is because I know that this is priming me to disagree with anything that they say so I have to be extra careful when one of them says something like oh well you know oranges actually make your dick bigger I might just think immediately this is so stupid and write that because I hate both of them but I need to keep mind okay hold on I know that I'm primed like crazy against both these guys I'm aware of that so I need to be careful when I am evaluating their claims because I might just say that they're not true because I just don't like them adjusting your sight on a basically yeah the zeroing on your brain yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah zeroing in in your brain that's a nice way put it yeah you have to just like try to correct for biases or be aware of them but don't pretend that you can get rid of them you absolutely cannot there's no way as a human being do you think that the debates that you do help to change Minds obviously you've spent you've got this big one coming up and you've done it a number over the last few months and it's like a high price although you're interested right you're engaged and stuff uh what do you think is the net outcome of you sitting down with Glenn Greenwald and and Alex Jones or you sitting down with with Norman frl Stein and and and Lex Reedman or whatever I think there's several things that happen one is that hopefully there's a broad broad broad narrative thing but hopefully it shapes the views a little bit of both sides so if you're a pro Palestinian and you hear me argue maybe you moderate a tad on some of the things that you're saying about how evil and bloodthirsty Israeli citizens are if you're a super big Zionist and you hear me argue hopefully you moderate a bit on your opinion it's like okay maybe Israel has made some mistakes historically and then if you're homeless in the middle those are the people that I try to like scoop up basically are people who email me and let's say like hey I was really big on this Pro Palestinian stuff but all the demonstrations and the pramas stuff made me feel really like crazy and not at home I'm glad I found somebody that's resonable or maybe it's like hey I'm like a super pro Zionist guy but you know I'm really uncomfortable with how much people support like the mass settlements and you know the demonization of Palestinians and pretending like we never have to make any concessions them ever and I'm glad that you're there so yeah I try to like kind of scoop up the people who are a little bit politically homeless right now and then hopefully I can kind of soften the positions on both sides depending on particular issue that I'm arguing with which is presumably why you've got a problem with the short sound bite thing because it doesn't allow the entirety of the conversation to be encapsulated yeah basically and people I'm I don't like short sound bites because people don't engage with them like short sound bites I don't make 30 second videos If you hear me say something in 30 seconds that's going to be an excerpt from a larger conversation if you hear me say something like um Destiny says that Palestinians have historically always been violent towards Israel okay I think that's a true statement that's a sound that you can cut and what if you have that sound bite what you would say is like in my opinion you can say like oh Destiny believes that Palestinians have historically always been violent towards the state of Israel that's fine but you can't take that and say Destiny thinks that Palestinians are solely to blame for the problems in between Israel and Palestine or destiny only thinks it's Palestinians who made mistakes historically with Israel Palestine like people will extrapolate so much from One Clip instead of just watching a larger conversation or getting more of a holistic view on what's going on you know it like the equivalent would be like you hear a friend like if we conducted ourselves in the real world like people treat content creators you'd be hanging with a friend and you be like hey what do you want to eat and your friend say like you know what I could really go for a pizza right now and you're like pizza do you hate all Indian food like what do you mean no I just want a pizza do you hate steak no I just wanted a pizza okay well you just said that you like pizza do you not like any other type of food or it's just like so bizarre that you think in 20 seconds you can get a clip and have a full summary of like what somebody has has thought about an issue or said about an issue did you watch how much have you got to watch that Taylor Loren versus Libs of Tik Tok debate did you watch much of it I watched there was part of it was posted on Twitter or I think like 3 minutes and I watched that was it how much how much like I get 15 minutes into it okay and it was a car crash it was so you say that books should be banned from schools which books have you read and B it was I've actually read this one and this one and this one you think that uh children's body parts should be cut off which parts exactly and it was just like this I don't know like an Unstoppable object in an immovable Force like just clashing up against each other until Len's got this mask on outside which just seems to be like it's like purposely yeah yeah like is it it's like the this is my joke that like every single like if somebody like so many Democrats got long Co so many Republicans got vaccine injuries it's just so crazy how that worked out you know every every conservative that got vaccinated know 10 people that have died from vaccines and every Democrat seems to know like five people with long Co it's crazy how the it sorted itself out that way you know yeah what's the cuz there woke fishing what's the other one like Trad fishing I guess but this is like Trad triggering right it's like purposefully doing the thing say what you want about Taylor Len like she knows the Optics of what she's doing have you seen her Instagram uh no I have not it's just I you don't need to spend too much time on it but it's a lot of like meta memes about what's going on kind of about the situations about all the rest of it so she's obviously playing this like huge oh do you think do you think that the mask was part of the meme then absolutely oh I have so much more respect for her if that's I thought she just like we oh that's really funny then [ __ ] I saw it and I was just like oh God why are people still wearing masks outside no it's 100% because she knew that by sitting down doing it that I think I I'm not calling Taylor Loren's a media genius like I I think that she's like pretty reliably an idiot but there are certain things that she's able to like certain games that she's able to play okay where she's doing that you and the reason that I think this I've got my biases based on her Instagram and her Instagram is very meta it's all about the narratives about her or about what she's been talking about or whatever and if you saw it you'd go yeah like it takes a degree of sort of stepping out okay from it and seeing it from where it is doesn't make her points or her any better of a person but um interesting yeah I think the mask I think the mask was a bit I'll check that out later then that's pretty funny it's pretty funny it is pretty funny um the only thing that would have made it better I guess is if she showed up with like a little Band-Aid on her arm for the I just got my yeah 50th booster shot yeah uh I had this conversation the other day about whether or not we passed Peak woke like whether or not we did about a year and a half ago that's my guess when would it have been um I feel like the I think that there have been a couple court cases one was near I think it was about two years ago it was with the Ober it was at a school called Overland something and I think a black person tried to steal something from a bakery across the school and the students and the bakery called the cops and they all the person there and the students protested saying the bakery was racist but the college joined in with the students basically and I think that uh College basically ended up owing like $30 million to the bakery over that lawsuit it was huge um there was that there was the whole watching the Harvard and the two other uh administrators get raked over the coals on the weird yeah yep that was really cringe and I think most people saw it as such I think a lot of the pro Palestinian stuff which is unfortunate because they do need good International representation but the marches and the all of that was not good was not good publicity for them um yeah and I just I feel like people are looking at all kind of the council culture stuff a little bit less like uh I feel like anecdotally like the word rard is coming back a bit more it is Shan has used the word gay in his SNL did you watch this I have not so oh he was gay and cracker didn't he he's great gay cracker and [ __ ] okay all my chat said that and they said I need to watch it because he said gay and cracker I haven't watched it and [ __ ] okay wow uh so yeah he he's doing this bit about uh how as a young boy you're basically your mom's gay best friend and he says you remember that you remember when you were young and you were just gay and then starts rolling into the G so kind of tempers it a little bit and plays it down the line but uh yeah I think you're right I think like those words coming back into Resurgence and there was a novelty around this like actually being woke being aware of all of the different social issues and this sort of performative empathy toxic compassion thing that was like novel and made you seem Progressive uh and aware yeah and now it seems like a meme yeah and it also it didn't really penetrate as much as people thought it would is very funny because um the perception in the United States [ __ ] I'm about to bully conservatives again the perception in the United States is that the farle was a huge problem and there might be some extremists on the right or whatever but the reality is the far left didn't make it anywhere legislatively of the of the Justice stems that got in they've moderated so much that now the wokies have abandoned them they're super angry about Bernie Sanders and his position on Israel Palestine they've not liked AOC for a long time because they thought she sold out to Pelosi and she's not attacking other Democrats as much so they have no power in the lawmaking bodies uh largely speaking like older Americans don't Vibe with the super woke stuff basically at all and the only place that these people kind of have power is in like School administration and even for like some of the school stuff people are kind of looking at this like this is getting kind of silly you're not seeing like the huge protests and demonstrations like you used to against like the Milo yannopoulos and everything uh but on the right uh their party is about to jump off a cliff following Donald Trump something like 80% of Republicans would literally follow Donald Trump to the end of the Earth which is a big problem for the Republican party but they seem to not think that they're kind of captured by anything so it's funny that for most part like the Democratic party and Democratic voters are basically like Center left and they kind of like got tugged along a little bit with all like the crazy woke stuff but now they're kind of like H this is like whatever but on the far right I think it's something like um I say far right but it's the majority of Republicans I think it's something like 70% of them don't believe in the results of the last election they think that it was actually rigged that like when you look at policies in terms of far right disbelieving the last election versus allowing trans [ __ ] like child porn bucks in schools whatever the the most recent accus I don't know whether people would find an equivalency between those two things the biggest problem that I think or the thing that people often times underrate is how pervasive the belief is so for instance like Nazism in the alt right in my opinion was a big concern because of the type of belief that it was but it never really picked up that much it was a fringe belief yeah it was a fringe right there and then that and I had a huge problem from 2016 onwards of like um you know like people on the left calling everybody a [ __ ] Nazi like bro do you just no stop they don't even neo-nazis it's not a good label to call all these people Nazis all these people all right it doesn't make any sense um and I agreed like I said for the especially for the trans stuff although I think we've moved past like the peak culture moment for that although a lot of that was also um it continued to be perpetuated because conservatives apparently had nothing else to talk about besides trans people so they fed into it a lot as well that's true man I mean we saw so much of the discourse was not necessarily about the first incident it was about the reaction to the incident and the subsequent reaction to the reaction and then the the discourse that came out about that and and also the overreact this goes back to the to the moderated reactions thing I feel this is a totally unsubstantiated belief I can't prove this at all just my feeling I feel like a lot of parents got mad about stuff in school libraries and about what their kids were in in class not because it's gotten worse than it ever has been but because with Co and with children staying home for the first time ever parents were actually looking at the curriculum of what their children were learning and for the first time ever they were like wait what the [ __ ] is this like well it's not not a problem just because you're not aware of it sure which I agree but I have an issue with people thinking that stuff has become uniquely bad something that I believe in very firmly is I think the downfall of Andrew Tate I also can't prove this I think the downfall of Andrew Tate started with those stories that came out of the UK about little boys in class bullying little girls using Andrew Tate stuff those stories got huge and then the talk of like our little boys in school learning things from Andrew T and blah blah blah and it was horrible and people you know had you know articles get very defensive about children in many ways yeah but the thing that I was thinking was like yeah I'm sure this is happening and it's definitely horrible but how much are we just now seeing you know little boys and girls bullying each other in school because we've got cell phones in front of everybody this isn't a new thing and I'm not saying it's okay but like we've always bullied the [ __ ] out of each other at school you know yes yeah so to to Circle back I'm not defending the whatever weird trans books or sex or gay sex guides or whatever exist in school libraries I'm sure they're out there and I'm sure a lot of them are inappropriate and dumb but like there's a switch thank God it hasn't happened to me yet but parents like flip a switch when they become parents where they forget every single thing about being a kid and they're like oh my God this is the worst thing ever I can't believe my kid is [ __ ] seeing this [ __ ] and blah blah blah and it's like when I was a kid I don't know if it was like this UK but I remember staying up at night where you would go to like it was Channel 14 and 15 and it was like the Cinemax like softcore yeah but it was like blurry but like every now and then it would like come through kind of see like the boob and it was like green that's what we did as kids but I feel like if parents saw their kids doing it today' be like oh my God it's the wokeness that's like getting my 12-year-old to think of porn or if like a movie like Mrs Doubtfire came out today they'd be like wow Robin Williams pushing the woke trans crossdressing agenda like interesting yeah yeah that is uh I don't know man the the the capturing of smart people's attention Douglas Murray good friend and he said he can't believe how many people have spent their time over the last few years debating about whether men are men and women are women or not and that's a a I think both of this shouldn't be a discussion that we're having I.E sex is something which is binary and real and also the overreaction from his own side of this capture when there are other things that we could be focusing on he went and did this documentary around the Streets of Philadelphia looking at this Tran epidemic yeah like that's a much that's a huge problem and fenol and opioid crisis all this [ __ ] like those are really really really big problems uhh but they don't play quite so well on as the culture War stuff yeah yes yeah and so you've got like Dan santis passing stuff in Florida of like Banning hormone therapy for Trans like how many people is this even impacting I remember when Matt Walsh went on Joe Rogan and I think Rogan asked him how many kids do you think are on hormones and this is right after you did a whole documentary on it and Matt Walsh was like it's probably in the millions and the answer was like 5,000 over like some like really dude yeah yeah I mean another thing that's played into this and there's always something new and dude I'm you know vehemently against almost all of the [ __ ] woke stuff but for not only for the reason I think that it's it in itself is dog [ __ ] but that it captures everyone's attention on all sides you get the reaction then you get the subsequent re- reaction and then there becomes this big debate and it gets blown out of nowhere it's like the especially for some reason especially the woke stuff for both sides seems like such a shelling point that everybody can get super passionate about yeah and this most recent thing with Gemini with Google I don't even know what is this Google's AI disaster have you not seen this no my mind has been all studying for this debate yeah what's this allow me to educate you go ahead uh Google oh wait wait is this the thing where when you ask for pictures it's always of like black people and Asian people that would be correct okay I've seen the memes I don't know anything else about it okay so I I don't know it in depth but I'll try and give you a good overview it tried to be so anti-racist that it ended up being racist okay and it annoyed people on the left because if you asked for an image of some Nazis it was black Nazis and then it annoyed people on the right because if you ask for an image of the founding fathers it was black founding fathers so everybody got pissed off and then it sort of hid it did a combination of hid and erased history in this regard but people were using it using its anti-racism to be really racist so they would say something like can you give me an image of 14th century philosophers drinking grape juice and eating watermelon and it would be for black people drinking grape juice and eating watermelon so just the whole retroactive changing of history after the Super Bowl thing where they collected corrected Alicia ke's voice I think at the start it's all part of some like a big constellation of different data points that are making people very concerned about what's happening to history and what's an acceptable it also has implications for whether or not Google itself is a reliable search is it going to deliver information in a way which is actually factual like given that so many people are going to use that to try and find something out the time what if all of the real stuff is hidden down on page [ __ ] five you don't know so yeah I mean from a branding position very bad very I could not have done it more poorly than this and it's probably according to Mike Baker it's probably gone through a million different this isn't the sort of thing it's not like a budite thing that perhaps was just one part of the marketing department that threw a case of sixpack at Dylan milany this is gone through an awful lot of layers before it's got here so it doesn't seem like it's happened by accident so you think there was like an intention ploy to make it like not racist or I think that they are Force feeding diversity in so much obviously they didn't mean for it to be so apparent that like anyone with the most basic prompt in history could create something which had a stand out like you can't make it to make a family of white or you couldn't get it to make a family of white people I think the only way you could get it to make white people is if you ask for ukrainians uh but it was like a Native American president and show me an image of the the king of Spain from the 18th century and it's like black guy so I think that it was force feeding Di and you can say ask it things like show me you're working or ask like explain to me why you did this and it's just the most rudimentary basic wokey talking points like the most cringe like it is important that we represent people from diverse backgrounds and like just it was that so there wasn't much complexity to it but this Force feeding of diversity plays into the Dei concern that a lot of people have at the moment and uh it's just more distraction I'm like God like if this hadn't happened if you just made it an accurate representation of what people needed but now we've got another and we're right now this very moment could be talking about something else that would be really useful but it's an important now it's another important cultural moment to try and dissect to work out what's going on and it just every single time it pushes us back pushes us back pushes us back I think there are two huge issues at play the first thing is I always tell people um if you're trying to engage in in real true political discourse you're trying to understand people don't ever start with the assumption that people are doing like evil crazy stuff I think that um when you're when you're when you start from that perspective you've already lost the ability to understand the other side so people on the left that want like trans kids legitimately feel like or a lot of them legitimately feel like there are children that are in need that have to get some medical stuff to make their lives workable basically they and I think that probably comes from a place of compassion generally speaking I think that when people on the right are fighting against stuff related to trans kids I think they genuinely believe that there are a lot of children that can get confused and then get swept up in online communities and then start taking medication or hormones and they don't know what's going on and it's going to be damaging to them and I think it gen genuinely comes from a place of compassion I think it's important to start from there because if you start from the place of like well my enemy is trying to destroy the country for XYZ reasons you're like you're totally lost right um the people that did the instruction on January 6th I imagine they genuinely thought that the election was stolen they really did think that that election was stolen and that there was some crazy stuff happening and that's why they had to go to the White House and try to stop the um you know the confirmation of the vote and everything genuinely believe that they thought that not that they were just like we're going to mess everything up right now because we're some real bad dudes um I think that I only say that because usually when when corporations make mistakes I think that they're usually trying their best because when when a lot of people are involved I think they're usually trying their best now if it's just like one or two people involved sometimes like personal agendas can really mess things up but if it's a lot of people involved the idea that there's this top down order of like okay guys [ __ ] white people we're going to do this we're going to we're going to edit them out we're going to make sure that we're blah blah blah blah blah as opposed to somebody like listen we got to make sure that these are you know diverse enough we don't want to have so every single thing is spitting out a million white people and then they probably overcorrect a lot of coward I think cowardice cowardice absolutely yes it's so this is Andrew Schultz taught me about this like his schulz's razor is uh it's not coordination it's cowardice sure yeah because somebody might be scaring like hey are we [ __ ] up right now guys because you don't want to be the one to for sure and that could absolutely be a thing to Absol I think it's a Hu I think that's a big part of it and especially with this Dynamic we're talking about now because if you're the guy it's like the being the [ __ ] first person that stops clapping after like some dictator stands up and gives a speech I'm not going to be the [ __ ] first person to stop clapping I'm not going to be the guy that says maybe this whole diversity thing maybe it's going too far maybe we don't need to do affirmative action maybe we should uh keep the SATs maybe they do actually have a maybe Men actually need a little bit of affirmative action at school or maybe we're going a little bit too far on having you know 20% of our advertisements trans so you think that women should you want to get women out of the boardroom and back into the kitchen is that right but remember it's because a slight difference in applied Position will be interpreted as a huge difference in fundamental moral belief you want to cut trans advertising because you hate trans people you want to get back on the diversity Stu because you think white people are better than black people right that's always where it goes so it's so hard for and in these environment is going to be a lot of like-minded people so hard for them to course correct which is why I talk about how when those two groups like Branch off into their own thing that is incredibly destructive I hate the fact that conservatives all talked about how we need to get out of the schools because they're corrupt and whatever the [ __ ] because well now the people in the schools are even more [ __ ] insane I need you there you need to be there you got to be participating or when left leaning people don't want to participate in certain aspects of like conservative culture when left-leaning people don't want to celebrate success or wealth or you know business is doing well or patriotism okay well cool well now if I have a if I'm a patriotic American I basically have to be a [ __ ] conservative because I'm not going to be patriotic on the side that's telling me to hate my country for [ __ ] slavery and colonialism and white supremacy recap that so it's the difference in applied position is indicative of a difference a change in value that's what people feel like yeah yes yes yeah okay so just because this is something that you want to have happen in the real world there is a an implication about your moral stance because for most people they didn't do the work to go from the initial uh the the the grounded ethical stance to the applied position and since they didn't do the work it's one and the same to them that's why if I talk about Israel Palestine it's so frustrating it still happens if I talk about isra palestin I don't think I would say anything happening right now is apar or genocide they don't hear okay you don't think it's a genocide they hear you think it's okay what's happening you think that Palestinians should live in territories where they never get a state you think it's okay to kill civilians that's what people here the same way that you might say um I don't know if I support affirmative action H you you just don't like black people you think that it's their fault everything in the United States or if you say maybe we've gone a bit too far on the diversity stuff they're like oh okay well the only reason you can think that is because you hate diversity and you're a white supremacist yeah because they yeah those things are so connected so it's a it's a it's not a slippery slope of it's like an interpretation of slippery sless it's this very small Iceberg above the water this happen it's not even a slippery slope it's a horizontal platform that's it these things are here when I that's why when you um there's a where who's the Alex o Conor worker whatever there's a ethical position I think it's called um it's you can be an ethical anti-realist who believes in non-cognitivism and when you believe in non-cognitivism what you're saying is when I express a moral proposition I say that murder is bad what I'm actually doing is I'm just expressing an emotional state murder boo I don't like murder murder bo uh emotive I think it's non-cognitivism right no no no is it emotive positivism [ __ ] godamn it random philosophy he's going he's going to scream at me he taught me about this two nights ago in Miami he came out for my birthday emotive [ __ ] epistemics or something like that maybe that but yeah it's basically I mean this is one of his best ideas that he taught me and I've now forgotten but yes it's basically whenever somebody says that they're in support of something or against something it's basically like Yay abortion or boo abortion and then they work back from that position than just try and they don't even work back they just sit there yes that's why so like for instance if a girl releases a story um I cover a lot of um we call them rape reviews on my stream it's a little crude R reviews yeah because people put out the me too stories and then we'll read through them it's like okay well what is the do we feel like it's a credible allegation or what's going on and for a lot of these things if you say woman raped you're saying what you're really saying is what happened here was really bad and if somebody else rap yeah or or boo whatever that was and if you come he's like well I looked at this I think the guy was definitely pushy um there might have been like some groping like not good sexual I don't think it was rape they hear you saying rape yay or if you push against the diversity measures you know white supremacy yay or if you push against the you know the trans youth stuff like oh discrimination yay oh Trans suicide yay because for a lot of people the applied position and the ethical position are one and the same these are inexorably linked and there is no difference that can happen which again if you're debating somebody different than you who the [ __ ] cares I don't care if we have different applied and ethical positions we're suppos to but if it's somebody similar to you we can't be disagreeing what do you mean you don't think there's a genocide you think it's okay to murder innocent civilians like those two things are linked and they're not it's total nonse yeah just how unified is the left compared with the right do you think at the moment this can be within the cultural commentary space this can be within the people who support the side this could be within the the politicians that are a part of it do you have a sense of how fractured each of these are comparatively um I feel like the right is more unified probably because they have a figure like Trump to unify around the left is a little feels a little bit more scattered but there's also going to be this also like very dependent on the communities that you're in like I said like if you're online on Twitter your impression of the American left in the United States is like a crazy woke mob of like cancel culture children running around the streets and then you forget that like if you go you know to like uh you know like North Carolina or Georgia and you're talking to like 30-year-old 35-year-old 50y old like black voters and stuff these people are not woke protr people running around on the street saying like my child needs HRT right this is not the demographic at all or even when you look at like older Democratic voters like generally these people are going to be kind of the the the cool old woke people the cool like the Cosmopolitan Elites who are like yeah I am a I am a woke person I believe in gay marriage that used to be like the the woke position what would be yuppies or something yeah but those people largely had like cool social beliefs like I think that we should have gay marriage I think freedom of speech is important I think that um yeah it was like we should probably have some kind of like worker protections and unions need to come back and like those kinds of work things not the like my four-year-old identifies as a it it's or whatever ATT helicopter yeah also on a real quick thing too um because you brought this up earlier with both sides on this one of the big issues the left has is a situation will come up somebody comes out and they say my four-year-old child is trans and I know that because you know they kicked right in the womb or whatever and then conservatives go you're [ __ ] insane okay the what should happen is is what I do when somebody comes to me and they bring me a crazy left leaning belief and they'll go what about when this guy uh said that this thing can can happen when they said that like all women are constantly being raped by Men by looking at them then what I say is oh that's really dumb and then you move on one of the big reasons why some of these small issues get blown up so much is because the people on the left will take the bait and they will start defending absurd [ __ ] there is not an epidemic of people with four-year-old trans people in the United States there is an epidemic of people willing to defend them though and that's the issue and that's why people on the right feel so justified in like their culture War stuff even if there's not a huge amount of people yeah it took me a long time to figure this out cuz I'm always thinking I'm like why is it such a huge issue but it's trans people are like 1% of the population if that depending on how many inter of the discourse yeah and but when you talk to conservatives you look at Yugo polls I think the the one that I saw was I think conservatives think 20% of people are trans in the US and I'm like well why is this the case but then when you look at the left well how many people over there willing to defend it and now I understand more okay yeah wow yeah that's very interesting so it's like a it's not about the volume of incidents that occur it's about the volume of the the volume of discussions that occur around that people willing to defend it yes correct where if everybody in the was like yeah this is really dumb then you've defanged the right because who the [ __ ] are they going to fight against right so when Tim p and all these people obsess over these weird books and and libraries about like guides to gay sex or whatever like this is brought up to me going okay um if that's in those libraries yeah that's pretty weird it probably shouldn't be there in schools and then you're done with it's not going to be a huge thing on like well LGBT people and gay people need to blah blah blah blah blah no it is weird and it's dumb and just don't defend it and then move on from it why would you why would you stake your position there and die on that Hill when there's so many more important things to fight over who do you think's doing the best work in the political space at the moment is there anyone that you're that you watch yourself or is there anyone that you think even if I don't watch them I can respect the way that they work with this stuff um I don't watch enough because I stream and I work like all the time so it's hard to like sit down and listen to like podcast or shows or whatever um yeah I don't want to venture any guesses I'm sure there are people out there but most of what I see is not good but it's also those are mostly the people that I debate and everything um yeah yeah it's an interesting an interesting world at the moment I think looking at wait I will shout out one guy his name is Josiah or pondering politics he's a cool guy his channel was like exploding recently he does a good job at uh trying to evaluate things like pretty fairly from the Democratic site yeah who not Crystal and Saga who's the other guy that's kind of like slightly left leaning being on a bunch recording that green he's got like a neon green behind him no idea [ __ ] the guy's name even if you think of it I'm not going to know him prob okay well he's he seems to be like kind of popular um and then you got a debate with second time actually we the last time one of the last times that we were together was at the Vulcan when you were on stage with Alex Jones and then you had another crack how did that go uh about as I expected it to yeah he's definitely very much like a showman which I can't tell that makes me hit him more or less I don't know how' you mean like I think that he is leg legitimately uh grifter and that like he knows he's putting on a show um like I remember when we were talking uh he did this thing where when we were having our conversation back and forth I think I started like I started like mocking him and he looked at me and I think he put his hand on my shoulder and I moved his hand I was like don't touch me um and I remember when were you genuinely irritated um no I just don't like it if somebody's trying to like show like physical Dum like no get your [ __ ] hand off me we're not going to do this right if you want to kill me you can kill me but you're not going to put your hand on me it's [ __ ] weird you're not my dad but I remember after we finished right and I'm because I feel very about all my political beliefs if you talk to anybody in my personal life they're going to tell you that like if we go out to eat and you bring up something I disagree with it's going to be just like a stream I'm going to be arguing with you I just feel very passionate about everything that I believe in uh but after the show with Alex Jones you know like I'm still like pretty like in the zone to debate like he got was like oh that was that was a great show it was real funny when you did that uh get your hand off me thing hilarious or whatever right and he just like walks I think for him I think it literally is just like a big show like he just has fun with it he WWE basically yeah which in one sense might make me dislike him less because I'm like okay well he doesn't actually believe in the crazy things he says but then in another sense kind of makes me hate him more cuz it's like well [ __ ] your listeners definitely believe this [ __ ] and now I don't know if you're propagating this for like fun and people are really taking it seriously even though you don't yeah I don't know oh yeah I understand what you mean that if someone is compelled because of the way that they believe that it legitimates their gregarious position is like oh well you kind of at the mercy of your emotions yeah as opposed to if yeah that's a difficult one this is why I don't usually spend much time figuring out like somebody's a grifter or not because it doesn't matter the harm is real regardless you well if you're on the internet everybody's a grifter and everybody is a shill and everybody is stupid and everyone is in it for the money and doesn't really agree with what they believe in and they're just doing it because they're a part of the whatever whatever yeah media apparatus but the PE the followers do so that's what you have to address even if Ben Shapiro and all these people are grifters the people that listen to them really believe it so that's you second order it's the second order thing again about it's not about the instant it's about how the incident is interpreted it's not about the the the event that happens it's about how many people then prepared to defend themselves in that event yeah yeah well I don't [ __ ] know man it's it seems it seems to me like a very messy time and I'm really really hoping that it's just going to be more sane out the other side of this everything seems to be ramping up ready for November but I don't know we'll we'll wait and see do you think the red pill's dying that's something that both of us have spent a little bit of time orbiting in one form or another either you debating it or me getting abused by it what do you think's happenening with the at the moment I think most of has like a probably like a two to four year shelf life for internet content and I think it kind of came and it kind of went Andrew Tate and the uh the pre-trial or pre- indictment imprisonment probably hurt a bit because it took away a lot of the publicity I think that the the nature of like the conversations for the red pill stuff I think was really bad um I think the like the content strategy from a lot of the red pillars I think was very subpar um how so uh like for me the way that I've stayed fresh relevant for 15 years of content creation is because I'm always finding like new stuff to talk about or a new angle to kind of like hit something from or like I'm kind of moving on with contemporary events I feel like for red pill stuff I feel like I could have written the script for those shows after being on two of them um to where it's like okay guys today we're going to talk about does body count matter do guys value you for the amount of money that you make do women [ __ ] over men and divorce are men lonely because they're simps it was like the same topics for like over a year such that it became like a meme where when I would show up on a show some my f would do like Bingo cards of like okay well when is the body count question coming up hypergamy or yeah hyper are women hypergamous or not and then it's like and then and then it and it's funny because like the questioning would always there's a fallacy called all roads lead to Rome I think if there's not there should be one we're basically literally no matter how somebody answers a question it always goes back to what you wanted to so I I might say to a girl have you ever dated a guy you say you don't care if guys at all have you ever dated a guy that's 5 five and the girl might be like no I haven't H cuz you hate short guys you know you won't and she's like oh no okay if you have a dat a GU that's 55 yes I have oh when uh when I was in a high school actually dat a GU that's 55 really are you together anymore with him well no oh you dumped him because he was a short King right like yeah or it's like are you dating a guy that's five like yeah I am now it's like oh really is he Rich uh no he's not that rich does he have a huge dick yeah his dick is pretty big oh hypergamous you just want the pool boy that you're probably gonna you know find a rich guy and still [ __ ] like there's always a Andrew Tate actually is the perfect uh example of the all roads lead to Rome okay when Andrew Tate had the pre-trial imprison there were never going to be charges because it was all a scam it was just a sham uh kangaroo court now that there are charges if if there wouldn't have been charges and he would have been released with no charges no indictment it was because obviously it was a scam right but now that there are charges well obviously because it's a scam of course they're going to make up charges so now they're going to go to court and if they go to court and they get uh if they go to court and they beat the charges it's because it was [ __ ] the whole time but if they go to CH uh go to court and they're convicted well it's because it's [ __ ] the whole time they're going to make it up all way so literally no matter what happens it's always because of your particular prediction of the world so you end up with these prediction models that will predict every single event which means they don't actually predict anything but it allows you to escape the cognitive dissonance of your predictive model not being correct so you don't have to worry if you've got a good view like a good blueprint of the world because literally no matter what happens you've always got a way to make sense of it in the future well this is why that four-step process of when was the last time someone publicly admitted that they were wrong when was the last time they surprised you if someone came out and had a discussion about this was like you know what it you know what it is I actually think that a lot of the time I do actually see girls in relationships with guys that hypogamous I wouldn't predict that they were in a relationship with that guy just seems to have game it's not really about the fact that he's tall or fit or rich or has status or or any of these things he just seems to be like a really nice guy and she wants to have a family and he ends up being you go I wasn't expecting that I wasn't expecting that that was something that would have surprised me you think okay well that shows an evolution of talking points but I don't know how many times and this is why you know I've still fascinated in evolutionary psychology and intersexual and Inter seexual Dynamics and all of that stuff it's still very interesting to me but the whole like lambasting women for having standards that are too high that that never was something that really crossed my world of content creation but even now it's okay so what like what else is happening how can here's an interesting angle here's a much more interesting angle for me for something that's contemporary in new this uh skew of young girls to the left and this SK of you guys young guys to the right given the fact that most people date within their political affiliation and because politics are becoming more important to each individual person now that's interesting that's like a new okay so what do we do where's this coming from and what does this mean 30% of democrat parents are afraid that their son or daughter would marry a republican that's interest what what about like parental pressure and how does that play into it that's interest you can keep talking about the same thing but do it with a different angle on it continuing to just hammer away in the same points I don't know it's just fair play if you have that degree of patience maybe to be able to just have the same conversation a thousand times but it's it I don't I don't have that in my toolbox the description is boring the descriptive part because yeah it's the same thing over and over again and then the prescriptive part is boring because for a lot of these movements um people don't actually give you good advice to kind of navigate it sometimes unless you can become a top one percenter instead what they try to prescribe is like a world that doesn't exist anymore like this is no good because women have birth control because women are you know earning money and blah blah blah blah blah it's like okay well that's not changing so you have to give advice for the world that exists now not tell guys you have to become a top one percenter you need to earn so much [ __ ] money that the traditional girls or whatever will go back to liking you it's it's never advice geared towards well how do you navigate the modern world where women don't need men as much where women are looking for different things in relationships how do you navigate that it's just like we need to go back to the the days of old and everything is messed up now because of feminism and complaining and blah blah blah blah blah yeah talk to me about the DHD diagnosis um it seems like a big change for you yeah it's a totally huge change um I think when my son was seven he had huge attention problems in school such that he would like he was like rolling around on the floor he couldn't sit he couldn't stay in his chair um between classes they were having him crawl through like resistance tunnels to like burn off energy it was a huge problem of focus um at home I it was really hard to get him to stay on ask for like chores if I wanted to go out and like pick up leaves with him like doing the yard or whatever really really really difficult to get him to stay on task or anything like that um and then at some point because we considered initially like maybe he has autism or something weird like that I don't know um and then the school psychologist School therapist or whatever floated the idea of ADHD um and then we took him to get an evaluation and he got like clearly marked for ADHD and I didn't buy that because I can play games with my son if we're playing like Minecraft or something he can sit there on the computer for [ __ ] 16 hours and I would like do these [ __ ] okay Nathan we're going to sit here we're going to look at each other for five [ __ ] minutes you're not going to move we're going to sit here and do this I know you can do this and we would and you could do these things like this is I don't this 8 is [ __ ] I I don't believe it I didn't even believe they like ad was really a real thing um so then now that's my personal feelings on it um and at the time like that's written at the top of the dock yeah I don't I don't believe that it's real I don't I would never take a brain pill medication because I don't want to change who I am blah blah blah but my responsibility as a father to him supersedes my own personal on it so I owe it if if for nothing else I owe it to him to at least do the research so when I started doing reading and research on ADHD I come across a whole bunch of things that I didn't understand relating to ADHD and the most shocking thing was for everything that I researched because I was trying to find does his behavior show up I found all of my old Behavior showing up um so huge discrepancies on like standardized testing where I might do like 98 or 99th percentile and everything versus like GPA or homework I didn't ever do homework my GPA was a 2.7 uh my that was curved up because of like honors classes and AP classes so my GBA was horrible um I had to have like a teacher sign my assignment notebook and then my parents sign it or else I would get a detention because I was so bad at doing homework uh I didn't like to read I would cry if I got assigned reading for more than like a few pages I could never do it I remember in high school I used to do like I would do like cliff notes and Spark Notes and extended readings so that I could avoid doing the actual reading there was just like a bunch of really really dumb Behavior but I always thought because I could play video games for 16 hours I must not have ADHD um and that that's like one of that's like three of like 15 other different behaviors I'm like Jesus Christ so after I read all that I was like okay [ __ ] it my son I guess if I'm to believe 0 she's real my son probably has it so he got medication it helped him a ton for school and he's continued to stay on it and it's helped him a ton for school seven years later think about like five or six months ago I've got a friend that's staying with me and she suggests she's like listen everybody knows you have ADHD it's like a joke on streaming blah blah blah like yeah but everybody has ADHD everybody's autism like whatever and she has Aderall and she's like you should just try this for like a week and I'm like okay [ __ ] it why not sure um and I enjoy recreational drugs uh I tried the Aderall and for the first like two or 3 days I was definitely like amphetamine High okay I don't know if you've like done amphetamines Recreation it's just like it's like a euphoric you feel so good you're like in a good mood you're super happy I'm like okay this is cool but like I'm [ __ ] high okay I know it is I know like an feels like um and then on day four the Euphoria the like amphetamine Euphoria of like doing a drug recreationally basically disappeared um and then when I went to stream and stuff I noticed that I could pay attention to what I was doing without having to have a game going on in the background which was a really huge departure because if you ever watch any old videos I always like playing Minecraft playing video games do something while watching a video but I could just sit and like read stuff and then I noticed over the next week that I was like holy [ __ ] I can read stuff for like four hours a day I can just sit and read and read and read and I'm retaining the information and I don't feel like I have to do a million other things and that's basically after that I was like [ __ ] it I went to a therapist very easily I could get an ADHD diagnosis because of my childhood stuff um and then I got a prescription for viance and yeah I don't think viance is um it's a it's an amphetamine similar to Aderall okay bit more powerful bit less powerful bit more something else um adol is a combination of four different amphetamine salts uh viance is one of those amphetamine salts but it's got an attachment of another molecule that makes you digest it slowly so that it like is an extended release amphetamine basically okay um it's a it's list dextroamphetamine or listex amphetamine it's a lysine attachment to a dexamphetamine thing and then when you eat it your body I think in the liver pulls off the lysing thing and then you get the slow Rel A Time release version yeah is this something that you presumably done your research to work out what it was that you would have preferred to have had um the other basically the other option is Aderall xire basically I think right um yeah but yeah for the past four or five months I've learned like the entire history of Israel Palestine I've read like 100 page papers on like legal Theory uh for my debate with Glenn Greenwald um I'm able to research and retain information and be interested and I haven't played like basically a single game in like almost half a year in like four or five months um it has dramatically changed my engagement with the world in like an unbelievable way so James my business partner in neonic had an adult diagnosis with ADHD as well and what does that do you know you're a person who thinks that you know who you are you've been you for like [ __ ] 35 years or some [ __ ] like you thought that you knew the landscape of your own mind and who you were and and this is me Steven out in the world and then someone comes along and kind of says this is a part of you that you haven't been able to fully understand does that change your sense of self I think that my whole life and I think this probably happens as everybody gets older I'm sure it's happened to you you're the smartest age that you ever are is 19 because you know everything you know what every F if I I've always joked that like if I go back maybe even with you I said this if I could go back in time and talk to myself I wouldn't believe anything I'd have to say even if I knew I was coming from the future yeah because 1920 you know everything um one of the things I've learned as I've gotten older is subjective experiences are very very hard to understand so I try to be really careful when I speak about other people's subjective experiences and your mind and how you relate to the world is another one of those subjective experiences so I guess in my mind and it's funny because I came across this a lot with ADHD stuff that ADHD can be simultaneously like overdiagnosed and underdiagnosed at the same time to where if somebody's just like either lazy or has an attention problem or whatever the [ __ ] because for a variety of reasons they might get an ADHD diagnosis but if somebody has ADHD um they might feel so like my feelings are like if I just focus I know I can do this I'm just a lazy [ __ ] a [ __ ] there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to [ __ ] just stay on task for 3 hours everybody can do this there's no reason I can't do this right um and my my feeling is that like I'm probably just more lazy than the average person and so that's why um but then after doing a lot of reading and then taking like a pill for a little bit and I'm like okay well [ __ ] I wonder if this is like the ordinary mind or if this is more closer to the subjective state of other people um yeah it just makes me has it changed your theory of mind about other people obviously you know if you're lambasting yourself basically basically saying you should be more disciplined than this you should be able to stay focused why can't you just do this thing without getting distracted every two minutes or without having to play a video game or without having to have three video screens open at once you know that's an internal monologue that you've habituated it's a very well-worn path MH I'm just fascinated by people that have like oh and now I have a very different story that I tell myself about why I am the way I am and what that means and why that could be the way and yeah it seems like a huge pivot yeah I mean I just try to I try to be open to everything um maybe there's something that'll you know dramatically shake my subjective interpretation of myself in the future but I'd rather be more open to it than more closed off to it because I want to feel like I'm making progress towards a better version of myself rather than like well I have figured it out when I'm 20 and now I'm not going to change my feelings at all and I know there's a lot of things that I skew off the norm for like I remember when I was like 20 2122 like if people would ever come to me no it would have been like from like 22 to 25 on stream people would ask me questions like oh oh like I've got a toxic relationship with my mom or dad like what should I do and my answer is always very simple you just cut them out of your life never talk to him again that's so easy why would you why would you maintain toxic relationships with your parents what a stupid thing to do like that's so dumb but then as I've gotten older I'm like okay well people have feelings about their family and it's pretty obvious that most people's feelings are way off of where mine are so it's pretty stupid of me to suggest something for other people and assume that you know it's the same thing for everybody so I just try to be really aware of the different subjective experiences that people can have and that mine might change in the future too cuz I don't want to get locked in on some dumb sh yeah yes I felt quite bad uh watching I didn't reach out because there was enough people doing that already but I felt quite bad watching the entire internet kind of scrutinize your relationship over the last few months all the divorce stuff yeah yeah man like I know that you appear as like this sort of emotional punching bag stoic [ __ ] brick where everything is super transparent and everyone knows kind of everything that's going on and you have a a capacity to be able to deal with discomfort that seems to be like I don't know beyond certainly outside of the norm uh but that made me it made me feel uncomfortable like watching everybody else dissect your [ __ ] like this intimate part of a downfall of a relationship online so I imagine that like rolled in with a [ __ ] ADHD diagnosis plus changing the chemical structure of your mind uh like that's what I mean like the last 12 months oh it was a lot for sure I remember that I scaled back on my last prescription request I scaled back a little bit of my just my viance cuz I noticed that my um cuz I I wear these stupid little things to track like through my gy stuff my heart rate my resing heart rate had risen like 17 beats per minute that's a lot in like 2 months that's a lot and in the research that I did I think that the average heart rate elevation for somebody on amphetamines I think was 4.9 beats per minute over a whole lifetime of like doing these amphetamines so for mine to have risen almost 20 in two months I'm like holy [ __ ] my something's going on something is exploding and I don't even know if this is possible with medication but then but now it's all settled and I realized it was probably just that period of like a lot of like stress that I'm dealing with from my own relationships from from like the public stuff and you've got to keep streaming through everything and then like the research from mybates everything yeah there's a lot to deal with but yeah yeah it was definitely physiologically it was definitely tough but I've always felt like I have the tools to deal with everything um and in some ways there are there are parts of my life that look incredibly difficult that actually make things so much easier for me uh I talked with um talked with Lex I've talked with a lot of people that are more behind the scenes about this cuz a lot of people look at my life and they're like it's got to be so [ __ ] hard to have your relationship and everything else like out front and center for all these people to dissect and my thought is it's got to be so [ __ ] hard to try to keep that secret oh my God because if you try to keep things secret you it's got to be so scary every day on the internet something might get leaked somebody might find something out and now you've got to like try to figure out like how do I defend this without revealing too much and what do I say and what else is going to leak and blah blah blah for me there is the added stress of when everything's public everybody can comment on it but it's also like this is it like there's nowhere to hide and also you see what you get like there's never been a time in my 15 years where something has leaked of me where like oh my God that's the real d he does this behind close scenes that's what's going this never happened like you basically you get what you see yeah which in some ways makes things easier for me a lot yeah will you do the same thing when next relationship rolls around or you have you got a like H maybe we don't need to go quite so public with stuff have you got have you got a a strategy for that I think um now I'm being really really really critical of who I would select next like I've got like a whole list of criteria that I'm like writing down and evaluating for people cuz I'm trying to figure out like what works what doesn't I've got like my ex's on this like list of criteria like what would have worked or what didn't work or blah blah blah um I don't know if I'll ever be dating again or if I'll get married or what that looks like just cuz my life is so crazy if I do do another relationship it would probably be another open one if I do do another relationship it's probably going to end because most relationships do and when it does everybody if the red pill was popular will say Well it ended because it's an open relationship despite the fact that I had four monogamous relationsships for this that all ended for variet of reasons but um yeah I mean we'll see if I dat or not again it just depends but my life is like really crazy really busy and it's hard to slot anything in there you yes yeah not dating again is a I don't know like I wonder I I wonder what will happen when you're further outside of the blast radius of your most recent like [ __ ] slow motion car Crush public car Crush thing it's just it's a lot for the other person to deal with that's the issue so you have to find somebody that is willing to deal with all the public stuff probably somebody that works in content creation um because otherwise it's hard to explain this world to like a normal human being allow me to step you into this world that you didn't choose that you don't understand and how do I make you understand why there's like a whole Forum of people that obsess over every time you turn your you know Discord on or off or people that try to figure out like what our addresses or why people say I'm a pedophile or why you know this guy you know why is it today that Muslims are trying to find your address to go and Jihad you and like it's that's a lot for an ordinary person to be brought into I think that is a lot for an ordinary person to be brought into yeah speaking of that assume that I know nothing about the V scenario because essentially I don't but I know that there's been stuff that you've been at least commenting on what's the 30,000 foot view of the last few weeks ah I hate being charitable to him at all the what's happened is is vosch has made a collection of Fairly edgy statements in his past that on their own are all I would say probably defensible um but taken collectively against people that don't like him can present a very compelling narrative that he's like a pedophile basically so like I think for instance there was like an argument before relating to why he didn't he was I wish I could remember I don't want to misquote this because it's so important to get the exact wording right so I could be misquoting you can go find the if you want but I think he was in an argument where he was like it was something like in a very edgy way he's like I don't know why people care so much about child porn because of the harm created to children but we're okay buying and having things every single day that are made by children in sweat shops where they kill themselves um but then people will hear something that like oh wait so you want to make child porn legal but his argument was really well no we should probably make sweat shops illegal but it's it's just like a bunch of stuff like that that's piled up over time and then so that's like the factual foundation and then the rhetorical Foundation or the um content Direction Foundation is Vos has very intentionally isolated himself from the rest of the world and he conducts himself in an incredibly aggressive bullying way so he doesn't really have anybody in his corner to defend him um or to lend him any credibility because he's made enemies of anybody that that would be friends with him and he's been incredibly uncharitable everybody else in in his part of the world so he's he's done it to himself so I'm not really I don't feel very much sympathy I might feel sympathy over the hyperbolic statements that get blown up because I've made like a lot of statements that are hyperbolically get blown up but I don't feel sympathetic that this is what he has to go through right now because he's yeah he's he says completely untrue factually untrue things about me all the [ __ ] time and now watching it come back to bite him in the ass and him to have nobody in his cone to defend it is really funny exactly yeah it doesn't surprise me or at least I certainly see looking at the world of streaming uh you guys put an awful lot of hours in like you know that in itself just practically gets you out of the way of being able to spend time socially just doing stuff and then because so much of it is on its own you do streams with other people sometimes right maybe even like a good bit of the time uh but so many streamers are just spending hours and hours and hours and hours just them and a camera and a and a screen and it seems like of all of the different content creation methods it's the one that is the most is isolationist like it's it's that and then only worse than that are those people that try and like rebuild ghost towns like on like in [ __ ] Greenland or something like that those are the two that are the worst so yeah I mean I have a I have a great degree of sympathy for streamers overall because it's a a rough job not as much as to say it's a harder job than uh like being a brick layer retail yeah was it retail I don't you're talking about Hassan right yeah not that hard that's another funny example where I actually and I've given the same in the past Hassan was 100% correct in his assessment and his statement he just said it in kind of a bad way but he doesn't have anybody to defend him either and it's funny because he blamed my community completely for that clip blowing up but um I'm willing to bet that you would agree with the entire con the statement and that what we do for work right now in ways it can be more so to Stronger could be more difficult than jobs at work prior to this um just because of all the added stresses and all the added things that are going on but you're compensated generously for it and you have a greater degree of autonomy operate exactly yeah and that's always the big difference like a McDonald's worker in a second would step into my life I would never step back into working at McDonald's ever so even if there are more challenges and and more Soul destroying aspects of this job which there are if I got divorce as a McDonald's worker I don't have to deal with you know 75-year-old [ __ ] Rolo tomasi you know making arguments about why this McDonald's worker broke up like I don't have to deal with that I don't have to worry about like [ __ ] nude pictures leaking or everybody having an opinion on some [ __ ] I said but I make 100 times the money that I did when I work to [ __ ] McDonald's and I get to choose every part of my life want engagement so yeah so Assan did have a point but man for him the the socialist guy that lives in a $4 million mansion and has a $250,000 Porsche and flies in private jets and wears thousand outfits it sounds horrible coming from him Optics are a big deal yeah uh and [ __ ] him I'm not defending him because yeah that was his fault I could have been a big defender of him on that art because I love defending takes like that because they're they're technically correct but they're optically horrible and those are my favorite things to defend you know yeah dude I you know I I did a video which is still up on the channel I think something like uh what no one tells you about working for yourself and oh [ __ ] yes that's the same it's all of the thing it's all of the points um if you are both the uh organ grinder and the monkey if you're both the Taskmaster and the worker there is always in the back of your mind is this the best thing that I could be doing with my time so not only do you need to design what you have to do you then need to discipline yourself to go and do it and then you need to go and do it and then you need to review and question whether or not that's the thing that you're supposed to do and even when you're away on holid holiday whatever that even means there's always this degree of I could be working a little bit more and then work begins to bleed into Leisure Time so there is this huge huge big long list and someone brought it up on a Q&A a couple of weeks ago where they said um lots of people in the personal development Finance space are disparaging about 9-to-5s but I actually really love my nto5 and uh I I feel a bit bad because I'm like a second class citizen for liking this like cucked job type thing um why do you think people have such bad opinions about it and I was like that's a first off great Point secondly it made me realize I've never disparaged 9 to5 I'm like look if you can find a way to be able to work for yourself I think it's a a reliable route toward like having a fun life that you're probably going to enjoy but it's not the only route I know tons of people that have nine to fives that lead perfectly happy lives and there are all of these other side effects that come along with it like having to be the person that what when are you going to get up today how long are you going to stream for well you choose and if you don't stream for long enough who says when enough is done like what's the rules around this how hard are you supposed to work how well have you supposed to do your job all of that gets externalized you a is liberating and it's just what's your personality what's your predisposition what do you want people have an inability sometimes to just like analyze like the pros and cons things have to be fully good or fully bad um I don't know if this would be a huge point of disagreement for us but you do like a lot of like health and fitness stuff right yeah like like a position that I have relating to like food is I don't think there's no such thing as like a good food or a bad food Foods just do different things if you've got like a sugary calorie bar or like like a candy bar that's just like empty carbs or whatever that's all it is it's energy for the day high in sugar like that's what it is it's not necessarily a bad thing if you've hit all your micros and macros for the day but you need 400 more calories if you want to eat a [ __ ] Kit Kat bar it works right there's no such like a wholly good food or a holy bad food something super high in vitamins or whatever it doesn't matter if uh you can't absorb it for whatever reason or if you're not deficient in it like there's no [ __ ] point it just it is what it is like understand the pros cons exactly yeah and I think when it comes to like nine to FS or entrepreneurship it's the same thing or with like renting or buying a house there are pros and cons to both of these things right I'm a millionaire and I don't well I own a house with my kid and my kids mom that's irrelevant I don't own a house personally I live in apartments I'm probably going to live in apartments for the next like 10 years I'm going to buy a house and settle down somewhere but it's but people would think that like once you got money the most important thing is to buy a house because you don't want to set your money on fire I'm not setting my money on fire when I'm in a in an apartment any more than I set my money on fire when I go to a restaurant and buy food like I'm literally paying for something that I'm going to [ __ ] out my toilet later but that's not wasting my money I'm getting a meal out of it same thing with I'm rening an apartment I'm not wasting my money I'm paying for a place to sleep and live every day um there are super big Pros to entrepreneurship if you've got the mind for an entrepreneur and I don't mean the mind like you're smart enough I just mean the mind that like you enjoy yeah you enjoy like the uncertainty the ups and downs and you can navigate yeah not everybody enjoys that and 9 to5 I've known people that have stepped into the entrepreneurship and then G back to the 95s and like listen I can fund all the hobbies and I want to do with my 95 and I don't have to worry about you know where's my paycheck going to come from is this going to be a slow month for me uh if yeah so yeah there there's pros and cons to both and the demonization of like N9 to5 and you're a [ __ ] loser because you're not a rapper or because you're not a small business owner or because you're not a [ __ ] you know Superstar streamer YouTuber it's like no [ __ ] you you can do whatever you want to just yeah figure your figure out what works at the person conert for you yeah I I think that's that's good and that's not something that I've heard a lot about like you know championing it's part of this disparagement I've I think that we're on the same page that you're relatively Pro College as well I'm super pro College yeah but if you think you've got a better path besides that then then Yeah by all means go for it but you for all these people [ __ ] all these people will complain about the Deep State the politicians the lobbyists and the Bill Gates and blah blah blah when you look at all these people that you think have rigged the world and they're corrupting everything blah blah blah where do they send their kids they're not Bill Gates doesn't tell his children like oh you're 19 you're not going to col they all send them to [ __ ] Ivy leak schools they all send them to the best schools they get the best degrees they all supposed to be the most woke ones they're the ones that will be the most brainwashed maybe I guess but like they're going to college they're not like telling you would think that like well if they' figured out well you look at the uh Steve Jobs didn't give his kids iPads type argument which is uh be aware of what the uh Lifestyles and Technologies are of the people who are in power and if the people who are in power sending their kids to universities like if you just want to model what they're doing they've got skin in the game with regards to that yeah for me I mean you know I don't disagree I learned basically zero when I went to University but I had great life experiences and it taught me an awful lot it was like like Navy SEAL hell week for five years of socialization sure of you know you need to learn what it's like to get drunk and lose your keys in Manchester and have an argument with your friend at 3: in the morning you need to learn what it's like to have an argument with a a housemate where you can just request from the University that you move Flats uh like that all of those things when are you going to learn that 25 yeah 30 part of the transitioning into adulthood yeah yes so it just I think It prepares people and but I understand that you know it's all a big scam no one learns anything that's important and in an Ideal World yes would higher education actually educate you effectively along with giving you the life skills probably but of the two they're like I would give it 50/50 for what you come and maybe even more on the life skills side of things to be able okay well what's it like to um have your attendance be so low that maybe you're going to get kicked out of University because that might happen with a job in a couple of years time when you're ill or some other like like administrative [ __ ] happen is that the first time that you're going to ever encounter something like this no like you can get to do it with lower stakes and move through that stuff so yeah I uh and people have this weird thing where they're like well it's just people shouldn't be wasting their time on humanities and English degrees and it's like the majority of degrees people get from from colleges are stem degrees I did business and marketing and I've got two degrees one of which is a masters can't remember anything from either of them like H I might as well have done women's studies sure yeah or or all the people I think it's like I want to say it's like 50% of people get stem degrees anyway like they probably need it if you want to I think it's a really high percentage Yeah somebody post go look it up you got the [ __ ] iPad it's not connected to the internet oh my God yeah but it's it's a really high percentage I think it might have been over a majority of the degrees are uh STEM related degrees anyway like that's the vast majority what people go to school for are that but I think people have this impression that like 85% of college students are humanties students Taylor Swift degrees or it is yeah and then also too and again a moderated position like there are ways to do it intelligently like people say oh I don't want to go to college get $100,000 in debt you don't have to get $100,000 that's not the average student loan debt is not $100,000 I think it's like like $28,000 or something um it's not $100,000 also if you want to go to Community College for two years or do this or whatever like there are ways to make it more manageable as well you know you can be smart about it you don't have to go all in and be an idiot um it's just the my the scary thing for me heavily anecdotal by the way the scariest thing for me is that when people say forget College don't do that and my mind the people that don't need to go to college know that there isn't a guy who's got this huge portfolio projects that he's worked on that's got like all this knowledge who's 18 and he's like God [ __ ] do I need to go and get a compi degree and blah blah blah he knows what he's going to do you know people point to Bill Gates as like oh well Bill Gates didn't go to college Bill Gates didn't fail remedial English okay Bill Gates did not go to college because he couldn't get his [ __ ] GED okay Bill Gates did not go to college because he thought he was going to make it big trading [ __ ] crypto okay that's not these are not the same comparisons uh so if you don't know what you're going to do and you got like a general idea yeah go to college get your degree do that but don't tell people like oh no don't go to college like the universe has something Grand planned for you because most of these people are going to you know [ __ ] around with Drop Shipping on the internet for a year and a half hook up with a chick and get her pregnant and then the rest of their life is going to be retail or service you know starting at 21 because they just didn't really have strong Direction not Liberation yeah what do you think's going to happen in November election time I my belief for a while has been that I think that I think Biden is going to win I think he's going to win pretty handily uh my feeling for that is because I think the biggest thing that was going to hurt him was going to be the economy but I think that the sentiment on that has already adjusted pretty heavily and I don't see it going down I think that we're on a huge upshoot right now economically um and the FED is even talking about considering dropping rates or whatever so if the economy is fine um foreign policy Wise It's just Ukraine and Israel it's funny people give Biden a lot of [ __ ] on foreign policy but if you compare our foreign policy aims right now compared to what they were under trump our involvement is way better I think that Israel and Palestine that's a worthy thing to be involved in if for no other reason than to restrain Israel and Ukraine Russia that's a worthy thing to be involved in we're not in Afghanistan anymore we're not in Iraq anymore Biden ended the uh participation in the Saudi Le coalition to go and [ __ ] drone strike Yemen all the time right the strikes that we are doing in Yemen are very specifically on missiles blowing Bo so that's good I think that the foreign policy stuff is is good even if people try to make it into a thing I think domestically I think our economy is good um the border is an issue it always is an issue but I don't think Republicans can yank the illegal immigrant chain for you know seven months or whatever I think that they probably pulled that one too early um so I just basically broadly speaking I think the road to the election and all of the special elections that have gone on over the past couple years have been really good for Democrats so I think as long I think the road for it for Biden is pretty safe as long as he doesn't his brain doesn't Le out of his ears it's pretty safe that's a big if that's a big if for Donald Trump though he's got all of these indictments he's got the New York case that is I think they're trying to start that one in March what's that um the New York casee is the where he was making he was getting Cohen to make payments to Stormy Daniels uh the hush payments basically which is kind of looks bad the porn star [ __ ] cheating on his wife and all that um so you've got like all the news of the indictment stuff you've got whatever crazy [ __ ] that Trump says abortion is still really fresh on people's minds and now you're getting more stories about like crazy law still fresh on people's minds I think so yeah um I'm basing this on opinion polling and I was with my community uh doing door knocking in Ohio for like get out the vot stuff stuff and as you go around and I I always try to do it at least one day so that I can like have the experience and talk to people I was really surprised at how many people when I knocked on doors there the two issues that everybody always brought up were protecting democracy which seems like [ __ ] I would hear on Twitter and the second one was abortion everybody what sort of people is this a a broad cross-section older people younger people it was yeah it's older people you're knocking on doors in in um Cincinnati Ohio of like likely registered voters basically making sure that they're still registered to vote and they know about the upcoming primaries and elections yeah um so I think abortion is going to be Big Driver I don't think like the Afghanistan pull out I don't think that's going to be a big negative driver I think it happened and then whatever um yeah that's my Broad View I think the road ahead for Biden is pretty easy as long as he maintains okay and I think the road ahead for Trump I don't see it getting better because he's not in office there's no way that he can do anything good and there's a lot of potential pitfalls coming up that could be really scary yeah how big of a deal do you think what's going on at the border is I've had a number of conversations about this it does seem like a really big catastrophe I mean it always does like Republicans a bigger catastrophe right now it's always a bigger have you had to look at the the stats around this like you tend to have some yeah I've seen numbers it's hard to know because like they always change uh like how they count some things like I think under the Obama Administration like they were changing how they um consider like a deportation ended up being like somebody that was met at the border and turned away there's like there's weird things that go on with the numbers all the time um I agree that the border is a problem but I don't believe that it's like a uniquely felt problem that's having a drastically negative impact on the average American's life I don't think that that's happening um so it's a problem because the media says it's a problem and because people want it to be a problem the Republicans do for a good reason because it probably is the strongest thing they have electorally um but I don't think the country is falling apart or like crazy [ __ ] is happening because of stuff going out the Border but Democrats do need to find a way to deal with it although right now the things that suck is that one Donald Trump had Co which helped a lot because he was able to do um was it title 42 title 49 um that basically said because we're in a state of emergency I can enact crazy measures at the border and people just weren't illegal immigrating as much because of Co so he had a huge benefit to his last uh time in office because of Co and then when Biden came in he was because he got Co no no because because of Co it dramtically because he got I was like it's like you being ill as the president unlocked some super SEC he got the co event basically right okay oh right yes Biden tried to use title 49 to control border stuff but he wasn't able to and then the amount of people coming to the border now is a lot higher as a percentage of like turnaways and everything the Biden Administration is doing better than the uh Trump Administration but there's such a greater number of people there to deal with it's just a difficult problem Apparently that is the rumors that I've heard because they know that Biden is going to be soft on them people say that and I'm curious where the truth is on that people say so it is true that more illegal immigrants come to the Border uh when a Democrat is in office but I'm curious is it because Democrats want to let them in or is it because Republicans say that Democrats will let them in because remember Harris's favorite thing of like do not come do not come one thing to the immigrants do not come that was a funny meme of hers yeah of her saying that and it's not like they don't let you in just because it's a democrat in office I don't think there's like a meaningful change in Border policy with a with a Dem and office over Republican but if you say it enough I don't know maybe that's why people do come in yeah right okay so this is like the Shadows on the wall but the Shadows have been created by the Republicans so the Republicans could be advertising the weakness of democratic immigration policy and that is what is being taken by people which for the most part is about the same under Biden as it was for Trump they ended like certain types of like family separation at Borders but nothing I don't think anything meaningful has changed between uh Trump and Biden but so I'm curious like I I haven't seen statements and I'll fully admit because I've been doing Israel Palestine stuff and then the Reel before that so I haven't followed this issue as closely but I haven't seen a bunch of statements from democratic lawmakers who are like we want the immigrants to come to the Border please come or like illegal we're going to be softer on them we're going to do something to let these immigrants in or blah blah blah I've never heard that I've heard a lot of Republicans saying that though so I'm curious like what the statements they are that's very interesting yeah the difference between being uh like effective in terms of rhetoric and effective in terms of the impact that it actually has on the world because it could be creating the second one whilst trying to achieve the first one yeah well I mean every election cycle there's been something that's been timed quite well you know emails for Hillary the bid Hunter Biden laptop story I'm kind of waiting oh for a thing oh dude there is going to be thing there has to be it's like I know do you remember when lost the TV show do you ever watch that I remember lost I never watch well just you know you always knew that the season finale was going to finish on a cliffhanger oh my God what's the Cliffhanger going to be and it feels like that now but this is the problem blurring the line between entertainment and politics I shouldn't be waiting for the next election cycle to come around and for whatever the revelatory story is like I'm about to see Prison Break season 3 finish it should be treated with a little bit more like seriousness I think the issue is both of these guys have been investigated quite a bit and by both of these guys I mean hunter Biden and uh Donald Trump uh so I don't know if anything new it doesn't seem like we're getting much new about Hunter might have dried the well on both sides well the but the problem is on the hunter Biden side I think that's probably true because especially now that this confidential informant was heavily compromised no I don't think that it would be just Hunter Biden I think that there will be something oh no no but what I'm saying in terms of what could leak I feel like for a lot of the hunter B stuff we've milked this cow but the problem is for Trump we potentially have new wells of information because of the ongoing court cases that gives you a novel ability to reach in through investigative power through Discovery through criminal indictment through trial to reveal stuff that's never been revealed before here's a statement of some kind here's a a court recording here's a whatever like for the j6 commission um a lot of the people near Trump pleaded pled executive privilege I don't have to say what I said because this is to the president of the United States which works in front of a congressional committee doesn't work in front of a uh criminal proceeding it's like pleading kind of like pleading the fifth but it's special yeah for the president yeah but that didn't work in a lot of the uh like the Jacks Smith federal investigation cases so it could be that there's more stuff that could come out or as this stuff is continually brought to the Forefront of American minds they have like a slightly less favorable view of Donald Trump because I do find for instance for a lot of the Donald Trump cases when a lot of Republicans all even Democrats just don't know any of the facts and when you present a lot of the facts they're indefensible it's not even close it's like unhinged insane [ __ ] um so I don't know how much that'll affect things but also Democrats have been yanking on the you know Donald Trump is doing illegal stuff and we're going to get him chain for four years and it didn't seem like much came out of that or for eight years I guess yeah so who knows I know I bet I bet $3,000 on Biden we'll see what happens okay I bet money on it I believe strongly in it what do you think about uh vivc ramas Swani let read the Trump clone guy that dropped out because he realized he has no political future because he just served there to yeah be a trump clone pick up some popularity write a book I don't have him yeah that's that's what you think about him I don't yeah okay yeah well it was an interesting one I think uh someone that's young just generally young at all that's involved in American politics just stands out yeah young is cool but he talks like a Salesman I feel like every time he was talking I was hearing a p for like a new dce and vacuum cleaner well there's a degree of that no matter what industry you're in whether it's in content creation or or or politics or or Media or anything uh there is a swing at the moment toward as much authenticity as much relatability as possible I guess that goes back into what you were saying about the openness and honesty around relationships and dating and [ __ ] an adult ADHD diagnosis all of these different things just being open and honest about them allow people to find areas of your story or anybody's story to like hook into and go oh well that that's kind of like me or that's like my sister or that's like my best friend or that's like my whatever and uh people had a problem with the Rocks uh appearance on Rogan because they said it was he kind of seemed very curated and it was super super smooth and all of this and what they wanted was you like who's the man behind all of that yeah precisely like I want to speak to Dwayne I don't want to speak to the Rock and I I think people felt like they didn't they didn't really necessarily get that uh and then I think that uh Tucker Carlson and Putin that interview was just like the same thing it was like we got a very well curated Orchestra like a curated performance uh by Putin and we didn't really get to see anything that was real there yeah one issue that I have with people is somebody being genuine is not necessarily a good character trait and people overrate that too much how people can be genuine and be a bad person a genuinely bad person but people will give a lot of people credit just because they're genuine it's like okay sure like this person might be genuine but that doesn't that's not necessarily a good thing or necessarily a bad thing like they could just be really bad like they could be a genuinely bad person it reminds me of um for a lot of debates that I do God I hate this I hate this it's going to happen under this [ __ ] video no not as much going disagree as much when I debate people that I disagree with I'm very rhetorically careful about how I present myself I don't want to come off as too argumentative or too distu to the conversation I want to be constructive I want to be somewhat agreeable so I'm finding common ground but ubiquitously under the every single one of these videos this is such a great conversation I love that two people are talking and they're not shouting to each other and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and it's like okay that is true but like comment on the conversation now okay just because we're talking and we're being agreeable doesn't mean it's necessarily a good conversation that's a good first hurtle to get over but now talk like evaluate the conversation itself yeah and I find like that happens that same thing happens with the genuine part of like oh I like this guy because he's genuine it's like yeah genuinely evil genuinely an [ __ ] like that's not a yeah it reminds me I'm sorry [ __ ] there's so many examples have you ever met a person in real life big red flag by the way if you have ever met a person in real life and you're like oh why don't people like you what's going on guy like I'm just too honest no it's not that you're too honest you're an [ __ ] yeah yes I remember when I was in school there was uh kids that would misbehave or whatever and there would be like extra dispensation given by the teachers to uh the kids that were naughty you know they were the ones that were always disrupting class or weren't handing homework in or weren't doing whatever and then me as one of the Nerds I would be held to a higher standard if I misbehaved in class I would feel like I got picked out by the teacher and told like that I shouldn't be doing whatever I'm like hang on a second he just like [ __ ] like kicked a bin over and you didn't you just sort of went over and like quietly told him to do that I always used to feel uh it always used to feel unfair that like the people that were able to behave were held to a higher standard than the people who weren't able to behave and I guess it's kind of like this it's like look you can be yourself but if yourself is being an [ __ ] then like it doesn't make you more virtuous that being said is it better for somebody to be a genuine [ __ ] than a a lying like virtuous individual yeah I guess it just depends on what the lying thing means and that's a really hard thing personally to sort through for an individual and it's a hard thing to sort through um and how you evaluate other people so like for instance if I let's say that I'm meeting a girlfriend's family okay I'm not going to that dinner as Destiny okay I'm not going to be making edgy jokes about how much money would you accept to [ __ ] a dog you know every single night if you were getting paid money that's not going to come up in that family conversation okay I'm going to be respectful I'm going to ask questions about the family's job I'm going to be like on my best behavior am I being a fake [ __ ] by doing that am I being disingenuous I wouldn't say so I think that you wear different hats depending on who you're talking to the issue comes from are you communicating things that don't comport with your values when you're talking to somebody else right so if I if my you know if I was meeting a girl's parents and they were racist and they asked me like you agree that like black people are lazy and I was like yeah I guess they are that's a problem right assuming that you don't actually think that because now you're violating core principles core values I find that a lot of the time when people are criticizing people for being not genuine it's just because they they're like wearing a different hat not necessarily because they're like lying or or misrepresenting themselves but yeah that's a hard one to S through anyway because some people might think that they're lying or misrepresenting themselves it's not like we and our nature and the way that we present ourselves are transparent to ourselves either a lot of the time we get skewed or manipulated just by the situation we just I I don't know I got caught up I was talking to such and such a person and I was tired or I wanted them to like me or whatever I didn't mean to say x y z but this is kind of going back to what you said at the very beginning which is like giving people a little bit more grace like hoping hoping for the best in people and believing like look I think that if I was you I would act the way that you are I don't think that most people are evil I think that they're trying to do good like just starting from a place of like more gentleness I suppose and a little bit more gentle Stephen uh a little bit more um room giving people a little bit more room and and and hoping that they can come along for the ride uh that seems like a much easier way a much nicer way to live life it can be yeah but it's not as much fun to watch and the eyes are so that's why I say it's people's fault sometimes because of the the type of content that they consume that's the direction that the content has in we're not in this media landscape because the Jews pushed us here or because there was an alt-right conspiracy or because the woke tards got us here we have the media landscape we do today because it's what we enjoy watching and we definitely reward yeah we got uh we put a clip up from the P Morgan interview and it was a uh clashing with P Morgan over alcohol and going sober he said that sometimes people that go sober can be boring I said that that assumes that people who drink are interesting and we went back and forth and there was a bunch of comments hey I'm sorry hold on he made the argument that alcoholics that get sober could be boring not necessarily alcoholics but that uh I was saying I went sober for a good chunk of my 20s and found it was good for not being hung over once every week or once every two weeks so I like got more productive and and made changes in my life and like Yay sobriety even though I didn't drink that much and he said well do you not find that if you do that you're just going to be around people that are boring and I was like that assumes that people who drink are interesting so we had a little bit of a back and forth on that and then he grown up in a pub and he said look I've seen that it helps people to come out of their skin and you know some people are a little bit socially anxious and so on and so forth and I was like well that also kind of shows that the people that you're around the friends that you're around you need to sedate yourself in order to be yourself with them so you need to find better friends the issue isn't that you need alcohol it's that you need friends that can help you to be yourself around them and I don't think that alcohol I think alcohol is actually masking a lot of those problems and many people haven't not had a drink especially in the UK like classic working-class culture haven't not had a drink since they were 15 or something the longest time they went from when they first ever had one to now was 2 weeks and they don't ever think but they'll be concerned about whether or not creatine or AK or artificial sweetness or something getting them meanwhile they're putting like a reliable poison into themselves and I love me some alcohol too like I was a club promote for 15 years I'm a part of it and just trying to thread that needle anyway like we titled the episode as clashing with pi Morgan over alol and going sober or something and like so many people in the comments like this wasn't a clash where's the clashing this isn't I'm like well okay [ __ ] debating Piers Morgan but like you [ __ ] like you clicked on it like you clicked on it so what is it what's the game that you want content creators to play like you is it clickbait if your interpretation well the threshold that I have for clashing is this and the threshold that you meant for debating is that it's like I and this is this would be the part to where I'm critical of audiences but I don't know how much the culture can change there this is the part where I would shift my critical this then to um content creator and I think the left has had a huge problem with this for a long time I think the left for a long time assumed that you just can't defend left leaning ideas because right leaning ideas are too easy like it's easier to just say like affirmative action bad because it's racist versus well how do you defend affirmative action but I think that something way different has happened I think that people on the right have spent a really good chunk of time figuring out how to make their ideas entertaining and fun and funny and people on the left just assumed that like well we're right and it's difficult so [ __ ] you you either get it or you don't and I'm not going to sit here and educate it's quite an elitist very very very elitist yeah so I think as a content creator you're you have a responsibility to two different things you do have a responsibility to be factually correct and to not spread misinformation I think you also do have a responsibility to be entertaining and funny you know for all the theories on Trump I have one [ __ ] theory that I genuinely believe that a huge chunk I'm going to say 45% of Trump's success goes back to all the way back to the red pill Stu and the game I think he's a really funny guy and I think that carries him really far more than being genuine more than whatever identify yeah the fact that when he goes on stage and he starts talking he's funny he can work a crowd really well a lot of people knew him from The Apprentice where he was like almost universally liked I'm pretty sure those were popular reality TV shows from The Apprentice and everything he's a funny dude his tweets were [ __ ] hilarious whether you were on the left or the right and I think that actually goes really really really really really far and it plugs into something that I thought funnny enough cuz people always bring up like you know like well what was it like for you in high school cuz you were short underweight you had bad acne and my going through high school I always just thought the fact that I'm funny makes everything work I can literally talk to I had huge groups of friends from different areas I had no problem talking to girls I didn't even know that 5'7 Or 58 was short for a guy I didn't even think about that because might make somebody laugh like I'm good to go um and I think this I think it is true for Donald Trump that a huge part of his success is just the fact that he's funny and people will watch him for that Riz and charm are massively underpriced by most yes because most of the time on the internet at least with the like perform formative autism hermetically sealed box that almost everybody exists in especially the terminally online people it's never actually humor they're not playing with wit and charm and and interpersonal flow what they're doing is trying to find some cutting sardonic like weird dunk take which isn't the same that doesn't come if you say that in person in an interview or to a friend or on a debate it sounds Petty and it sounds it's usually sounds quite demeaning and it doesn't sound whereas uh Doug Murray against Malcolm Gladwell when they were debating about is Independent Media more important or better than mainstream Media or whatever it might be and Douglas got like three laughs big relatively big laughs throughout the entirety of the conversation so guess what he won like he won in the hearts and minds of so many people and the same thing goes for this this is what Sam Harris said if you do a debate and you get between two and three absolute zingers where most of the room laughs it really hard to have lost that debate unless you've been absolutely sideswiped by all of the facts and everything else and you look like an idiot out outside of that like people like charm yeah and people will act like people will say things like oh like that's why debate is fake because people just go by who they' like more and blah blah blah um I'm sorry but that is every single facet of your life every single facet of your life is going to be influenced heavily by how other people view you and how social you are with other people whether it's for promotions at work or job performance whether it's relationships with professors in college whether it's um you know itics how well people like you whether it's as a content creator to the front of the the group of a table weit list at a restaurant yeah whether it's how you relate to a significant other how many autistic guys or girls have you heard say something like I don't know why they're so [ __ ] mad I was 100% correct that doesn't [ __ ] matter you think that matters yeah I know this better than anybody yeah yeah that doesn't [ __ ] matter how right you are in the conversation people like oh you don't care what I'm saying you just care about how I say it yeah no [ __ ] they care about how you say it there's a big difference between hey I'm really worried about you you're getting a little bit of late waight like let's do something like work out or eat better versus saying like you're a fat [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] and if you don't lose [ __ ] weight I'm going to divorce you right those are two you might be communicating factually a similar thing but the delivery is in is incredibly important and the dumbest thing about this is people [ __ ] know this people know this is important because you know that the way that somebody communicates with you is going to influence how you perceive the message and how you take it and you're going to get irritated when people are short or snarkier yes your uh desire for other people to ignore that doesn't extend to your enjoyment of other people being humor like full of humor and funny like you are more than happy to be Charmed by that guy or that girl that does that thing and you're like [ __ ] I can't I really don't agree with most of what that particular content creator says but there's something about the way that they communicate I just I really I really love the fact that U Matt Walsh is dry and sardonic I really love the fact that like Destiny makes like [ __ ] jokes or I really love the fact that like XY Z like those things just cut through an awful lot of the biases and the and the pr and and meanwhile you're saying to the world no no no you shouldn't give give privilege to people that are entertaining and a funny yeah you can't get to have it both ways and so many yeah I I think John Stewart wasn't the smartest person in media when he did The Daily Show you know however many 20 years ago or whatever he was really funny it was really entertaining that's back on TV now he's he's running it back he's I don't know how funny he is now I'm not sure I don't time I watch this much I saw I saw one little bit of a monologue it was him offering that black Justice lady is there like a black there like a black lady is it on is she on the Supreme Court or is it a oh my God you're talking about Clarence Thomas I think yes yeah was that The Daily Show I thought that was uh Steven Kar am I making that up oh it might be I can't remember who it was offering them oh no no no John Oliver I think was the thank you yes British guy yeah yes offering them an RV and a million dollars if they yeah to step down as a Supreme Court Justice which is funny what's next what you doing next what's the focus um in two days I go to New York City to do that finlin debate um my conversation I had a conversation with Jordan Peterson I think two weeks ago that'll probably get published sometime was that with him or virtual uh no it was with him I went to DC I think for that um and then next month I'm trying to find because I started this viance the past like four or five months on my stream have been very research driven I've taken like more notes and studied on this thing probably more than I have cumulatively for everything else in my entire life um so I'm trying to next month figure out like something a little bit more chill to do something more bite-sized something more uh like culturally relevant so maybe it'll be like research about like the Border immigration or something but so I'm going to keep my is a little bit more engaged than me literally reading the end of like books on stream and [ __ ] I hope that they weren't enjoying you playing Minecraft because that's gone out of the window fully put stay to all of your gaming content as a gaming streamer by taking a drug yeah but I think it's probably okay I think people like the political stuff more that I'm more focused on I just need to make sure it's like relevant and entertaining and not like hardcore deep Dives on the history of like entire conflex yeah how did you find uh Jordan interpersonally I don't know how much time you get to spend with him and and in terms of your debate and stuff yeah personally he was fine ideologically he was about where I thought he would be which is kind of disappointing I was hoping surprised um I have this theory that people get broken by events and then they're they never recover um a really good example of this do you know who uh Brett Weinstein yes I think is a perfect example of this have you read the stuff that he was writing or talking about during the Evergreen College Fiasco yeah yeah yeah I thought that all of it was unbelievably reasonable I thought he'd seemed like a reasonable guy everything was like cool but I think that event like broke his mind over the wheel and then now you know he's on Joe Rogan saying I think 13 million people have died probably from vaccines in the United States I'm like really um I think for Jordan Peterson I think it was the c16 stuff um that like the woke fighting or whatever like people will have this moment where they fight against another side and something a switch flips and because they get attacked by other side so much they become entrenched into the antithesis of that movement and that's unfortunately because I think Jordan pet has a lot of or had a lot of really insightful things to say about philosophy not philosophy I'm sorry a little bit about philosophy but mainly psychology that I really appreciate listening to but now it's just like all the I feel like I'm was talking to a random Trump voter like I think I was trying to bring up the frustrating I think I brought up this idea of the constellation of beliefs that people have and it was funny because I think in this interview that we do in like one minute when I bring up climate change he's brought up the WF I think like eating crickets like the everybody will be poor but own or you won't own anything and you'll be happy and um depopulation and 20% of Europe is dying because of the vaccine all the overhead deaths because of like to try to and it's just like H yeah the when when I see Minds that it feels like they get captured because they become entrenched in the opposite if we ever bullied them last that just like a great wasted potential for me and I feel like he suffers from that quite a bit I don't know whether those two guys have had that happen because of that situation but I certainly know the last time that we were together I told you about the peak hate rule which is that uh every content creator is best known for their most uh well-known transgression and their most recent one so Jordan would be like he doesn't he hates trans people and doesn't want to say their names and he calls Sports Illustrated models fat like Hassan would be um he said that America deserve 911 and he thinks that being a streamer is harder than working in McDonald's or whatever like everybody every Creator is captured by the biggest thing that they did and the most recent thing that they did and that's definitely the way that they're interpreted and I can totally see I even see this in myself man like you know the there's been a big change in scrutiny and and attention and stuff over the last year and there's no Media Kit there's no one throws a training manual at you to go oh and by the way when you reach half a billion people a year this is how you like how you think about yourself or how you deal with attention how you deal with criticism on the internet and if there you have a constitution like you maybe that's something that is a little bit easier to do but even for you it must be like [ __ ] hell like it feel this ambient [ __ ] vigilance of an awful lot of people and then if you have all of the way down the Spectrum to the person that's the most sensitive in the world they're going to really struggle with that even though that wasn't necessarily what they asked for but they did ask for it because they decided to just do this thing and they keep going and then you accumulate this audience all of that I can completely see how one of the responses from people would be all right you've made me feel the the world that I wanted to love me and validate me jilted me [ __ ] you I'm out I'm never going to listen to you again you're all shills are part the wef or you're all lib Todds or you're all like like w are you're all whatever like racist transphobic it's very easy to do that because you never have to deal with the unrequited love thing again yeah ever yeah yeah it's it's just frustrating because it's such a thought terminating view of the world and then you end up losing your you know reasonable faculty to evaluate positions and now you just bought into the opposite of whatever the other side said and it just feels it's it's disappointing and dumb I think yeah yeah hum humaning is inconvenient a lot of the time because there's other stuff that they could have done Destiny dude I appreciate you man uh good luck with all the debates and uh I'm not sure the next time that you come through Austin but we'll have to do barbecue and a training session or whatever it is that you've got on sounds great I look forward to it thank you very much for tuning in if you enjoyed that episode you will love my last chat with Destiny which you can watch right here go on

Channel: Chris Williamson

Views: 393,704

Keywords: modern wisdom, podcast, chris williamson, Chris Williamson modern wisdom, modern wisdom podcast, chriswillx, Chris Williamson Modern Wisdom Podcast, DESTINY, destiny debate, destiny milo reaction, destiny streamer, destiny vs Milo Yiannopoulos, Milo Yiannopoulos, destiny chris williamson, chris williamson destiny, destiny, destiny on, destiny reacts, destiny candace owens, destiny red pill, ds\estiny joe rogan, chris williamson on destiny, destiny on chris williamson, destini

Id: B1q3tGdbruQ

Length: 128min 13sec (7693 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 11 2024