Hamilton’s Christopher Jackson on Knowing Who You Are—On and Off Broadway

hey everybody jim hatmaker here your host of the for the love podcast welcome to the show you guys well right now we are in a series called for the love of broadway if it's not apparent by my face um this might be one of my favorite series that we have ever done in four years it is so electric so we've we've stepped back into the world of broadway and we are finally enjoying live theater again right thank you and it just felt right to have some of the best of the best on this show for you um broadway has always been important to me i my my first experience with broadway was in college and i saw a phantom of the opera and i just had never experienced anything like that before i i all of it the theater the the the drama the costuming the the score just all coming together in such a unique way i just i i got the bug immediately like from the first note and i've it's never left me and i've seen tons and tons of broadway shows and um i'm a fan of a patron i'm i follow it closely i'm i'm in awe of the specific unique talent um that musical theater brings together it's such a it's so special and so i don't know if you have ever heard about this one show it was you know smallish a few people talked about it it was called hamilton no big deal it only won like eight drama desk awards eleven tony awards the pulitzer prize for drama so if you've been around me a while you know that i came to hamilton super late in the game when it came out i was just in the middle of so much like life and career i was kind of in a wasteland of like cultural um experiences and so i missed the front edge of hamilton and came to it late and went to new york and saw it in the theater with the second cast and oh i mean i'm i couldn't sleep that night i could not say i laid away till four in the morning my brain was just like but how but like how how how how did i just see that um i now know every word i know every word i've got the books i've got the behind the scenes books i've read it all i've seen every interview the same as everybody hamilton was like a it's like a wonderful infectious disease that just took the whole world by storm and so today you guys we are so lucky to be spending time with the one and the only christopher jackson of course you know he was the original george washington in hamilton um incredible doesn't even there's not words there's no adjectives okay his first broadway role was also actually with the lion king so he started like right with an iconic show he actually started as an ensemble member and then moved his way into the role of adult simba who he was the understudy for too after several years and then he's started after midnight and bronx bombers and memphis um and on and on um of course not only is he well known obviously in the theater community but he's also moved into other mainstream platforms where he's collaborated with lynn manuel miranda on moana um big fame in our house um along with his acting on the cbs drama bull which i think he said he was in his fifth year now and then of course to top it all off in 2018 he received an honorary doctorate of fine arts from oglethorpe university so i um the first time that i ever saw hamilton in new york i was the late i was so my brain was buzzing so hard and i just took to twitter and i was like who will help me like who will help me i need somebody to process this with me i know that you guys all processed this you know four years ago but i need a right now partner to help me talk about this and boom right up on twitter i'm chris jackson concept how can i be of service and then everybody lost their minds they're like oh my gosh you conjured chris jackson um and we've kind of stayed in touch ever since and so um i'm so happy to tell you that you are not of course you are going to love this interview but he is just delightful as a human person like if you're watching this on youtube you know we always have this on audio wherever you listen to your podcast but we all these are always uploaded by video on my youtube channel which is so fun to watch because you get to see us both they're always recorded you get to see our faces and you get to see my guests like body language and how they're talking and you're going to want to watch this one on youtube he's so engaging and you'll see me like doing this the whole time okay audio listeners what i just did was put like a a mooney grin on my face and just knotted that's is so um great to talk to him like face to face and voiced a voice he has a lot of wisdom in here and probably gave one of my favorite answers i've ever heard to my very final question what's saving your life right now nothing i've ever heard before and i'm gonna be thinking about it um forever actually i think and so um he really came in vulnerable he talked about the highs and the lows of being on something as iconic as hamilton and what it's meant for him and where he's going next you're gonna love him so hard so i am entirely pleased to share with you my conversation with the absolutely wonderful christopher jackson all right well chris jackson welcome to the show thanks for having me um i first like kind of ran you down on twitter um a couple of years ago because i was the last living uh human person um to pull up a chair to the hamilton table and so when i saw it you know and it wasn't your casting we'd already graduated of the second cast you know i lost my mind of course anyway that's how i found you on twitter and then and i've kind of touched down on your like insane credentials but um just in case they are new to you on this very day would you mind just real quick before we get into it sort of giving us up like a little high level a little bit on who you are what you do who are your people where are you in the world we can talk about the doodles because they're right there they're coming in hot on the video oh my god yeah uh i am christopher jackson i am from a very small town in southern illinois the southern tip of illinois cairo illinois um i came to new york in 93 for college i went to the american musical and dramatic academy studied musical theater performance graduated in 95 jumped into a little off-broadway show called time in the wind which was sort of at a little theater that's no longer in existence um and i got my first shot at broadway in 97 with disney disney's the lion king where i was an ensemble member and i understood uh the adult simba unless anyone confused me with being young and um i moved up into the role in 99. that was my first leading role and eight broadway shows later here we are um in the world yeah yeah what in the world yeah where you was like little christopher jackson was this always your path like was this a clear shot for you did you always know theater did you always know musical theater um what is this were you born this way no oh okay no and yeah my my musical life uh i i started singing in public at three my grandparents owned funeral homes uh and you know kind of in the black tradition like it all hands on deck and so when the family didn't have someone in there in the church or in the family that they uh had to sing at a funeral i was i was it um and so i you know church and music and and in essence theater were always sort of linked um the only theater that i experienced were a couple you know a couple times a year our youth group would do some sort of a cantata or you know some sort of a performance so that was as formal as i got i never did a uh i would say like an official theater uh performance until i was a sophomore in high school okay okay it was yeah that was that was sort of the beginning of it a little uh community theater called shawnee community college um in in our community uh i was bitten by the experience i was but i grew up playing team sports i was a baseball player yeah it's all i really really cared about um being in the st louis cardinals was about my only ambition uh until i was you know in high school um but i had a speech teacher uh a teacher who who taught who basically ran the the theater speech and uh speech and drama uh club if you will and they had competitions um and so at the end of my sophomore year i was handed a play she handed me um arthur miller's the crucible and i never read a like a formal play yeah before um you hand that piece to an angsty 16 year old kid you're here and our 15 year old kid and wow you know um so my my my my love for theater was really just beginning uh i didn't really understand it musical theater wasn't really something it was it was something where i would get you know fake books and songs to sing for you know a voice competition or something through school um and then it just sort of grew and then i didn't know what broadway was i didn't know what the tonys were i didn't know what any of these things were music existed in records tv acting existed in film and tv theater was just not something that was accessible in that area there just wasn't there wasn't much to be exposed to though my mother did her very best um and so as i sort of grabbed a hold of this newfound opportunity um you know the end of high school was drawing near and i i didn't know what i wanted to do i knew what i didn't want to do and i didn't want to go in the funeral home business i didn't want to go to seminary i i wasn't being pulled in that particular direction though i had ample opportunities in both uh to pursue and i got my the same teacher miss steve lynn stevenson she handed me a flyer for amber and said hey they're having auditions in chicago you should go she saw she saw the thing that i now you know live every day but uh but to for you know you you talk about people that sort of passed through your life and into your life for a very small amount of time she was only there three or four years in our school wow but it was those it was what a pivotal moment um wow she saw it she knew yeah right she was but but the idea that you know for someone to come in and just introduce a completely new totally or possibility that i had never even heard of uh is pretty uh pretty miraculous i mean especially to like the beefy baseball kid who may run a funeral home or maybe a preacher like let's talk about dumpy baseball kid you know like those dreams those dreams are strong right like the idea of being a professional athlete is pervasive it will overcome everything sure um meanwhile i was the i was the kid who wanted to get up and sing you know and in school because also no one else did that and you know when you're a teenager you're looking for ways to not only express yourself but you're looking for ways to be exceptional and that was something that while i may not have been exceptional in my administering of that thing it was certainly something worthy of pursuit and that's what i i found really uh that was the first sort of hook and then after that i think she recognized and knew to sort of hook into also your natural competitive spirit because that served you well i mean no doubt if competition was your front door it was a good one it was inexorably linked so drama and the competition so that was maybe more of a prep for for the for the competitive uh act of participating in professional acting yeah how'd your family do um when you start trotting out this idea of going to school for the nebulous idea of music like what even is that is that a job do people ever make a living what's what's a music job what's i mean that had to feel if it was out of left field for you it might have been it must have been out of far left field right like for your family members who probably you know you've kind of got this family ecosystem it's this is the family business church ministry like this is where you live so i'm curious how they responded to these kind of wild dreams of yours i want to say that it was it was fast and furious because before before ms stevenson handed me that flyer i was going to go to college we'll figure it out in college yeah but the idea that this was so direct and it was essentially you know conservatory is essentially like a trade school yeah i mean in a lot of ways it's built in that construct it's very compressed it's very uh it's to a two-year program had i gone to a four-year school i would have wasted a lot of money i don't know that i would have completed it yeah um and so also for me performance was always a there was always a a deeper vein that ran through um anytime i sang um there was all it was clear that and i still don't even to this they understand necessarily the dynamic of it but there's a there's a connection that happens that happened when i opened my mouth there was an approach even though i hadn't it wasn't formalized and it wasn't it wasn't treated in in such a way that that uh i couldn't speak on it in such a way that where like i tap into this spiritual aspect of you know my myself connecting to a greater uh or higher higher calling but that's exactly what was happening yeah so you know i think the bigger adjustment was really for my mom and the idea that i was going to be in new york alone at 17. you know and whereas what what she didn't realize is that for the years prior my entire adolescent phase every year we went on a trip somewhere we saw a city our church took us to disney and myrtle beach and it was a group and we worked really hard every year but we always got out of town we always saw a different part of the world and therefore for me it was like where's these people everybody's just going where they're going i don't know where i'm gonna go from day to day and you know i don't know how to get over to the east side but i'll figure it out there's a map you know so it's one of those things where it's like well you've taught me how to be an upstanding person yeah you taught me how to be self-sufficient to a certain degree as as good as any 17 year old could be you've taught me how to follow a good advice and to keep my eyes open why wouldn't this work why wouldn't it you know what i mean and so once my mom was kind of uh she had to unfortunately adjust very quickly so it was one visit to new york after i had already been accepted i didn't even get the acceptance letter i didn't have that moment at home the letter never came to our house i got a call the day before the deadline was to to file for student housing and they were like are you coming what who is this yeah yeah and so you had to make that decision in 24 hours so thankfully i had a lot of uh a lot of allies uh my mom was a teacher in my high school so i had a lot of allies in you know mrs stevenson and julian was the executive they're like you let that boy go yeah what are you gonna do that's exactly what they said he can always come home but you gotta let him go do something i love thinking about young you in new york city really learning the ropes i mean can you talk a little bit about the the steps between their and and the in your broadway space so i know you started an off-broadway and just for people who may be listening who are not broadway people can you also explain what the difference is and kind of what that sort of internal ecosystem looks like inside the broadway world the off-broadway the on broadway um and how like that be that path began to like show itself in front of your feet well what okay so i'll start with this i when i'm doing a show and folks come to the show i'll in advert or inevitably i'll meet young performers and something you know in the autograph line after at the stage door well from time to time i'll bring some in it's really important for me to show young actors that when it comes to the actual act of making theater where you do it is really no different than than it is not as important as how you do it it's great excuse me and one of the things i always say is this broadway stage that you just saw a show at you saw a show performed on is no different than any stage that you'll ever step on any part of your life you're getting up in front of people and you're telling a story so if you can keep it manageable then you're already miles you know uh down the road off-broadway and broadway describe a commercial an individual commercial venture yes our our our off-broadway theater is 99 seats to 199 seats or anywhere smaller than that sometimes a little larger um a broadway theater is you know basically measured by the number of people that it can hold and the area that it's in those those sort of distinctions have been established long ago off-broadway allows for theater to actually happen it often happens much lower budget it often happens uh in a way that that the union has deemed this theater uh able to put on a show for a certain amount of time and to hire this many actors whatever um but off-broadway is generally like what i would call the proving grounds for a lot of theater a lot of our a lot of the things that have moved the broadway needle in terms of production in terms of style in terms of subject matter all happen off-broadway yeah and in theaters that are out in the in the country uh it gives you a little bit more latitude people who go to see an off-broadway show are going expecting to see something that may be a little less for general consumption more specific to a particular sort of idea uh whereas broadway is a commercial venture in every way it is a big scale it is millions of dollars the margins are far thinner um plenty of shows have closed with a 90 attendance rate wow yeah there's a lot of the projections and the margins and the things that you know or the theater owners have already contracted another show to come in at a certain point in calendar which limits yeah you know what what uh um what a production can do we and in in both times uh no the two shows that i've done with lynn heights and hamilton both actually heights i'm sorry heights we put our our broadway debut off by a certain number of weeks because there was a show that was already contracted for at that time period when we wanted to jump right in too yeah so we just had to wait you know you're about to be on broadway but you gotta wait so you better go back and do that part-time you know and so that's that's um that's i think that's sort of the gist of it yeah um you know but before for performers there's there's so any time that you're actively making theater you're you're doing you're living the dream you're doing a thing and the fact that someone gives you a paycheck to do it um whatever that paycheck happens to be that's what the dream looks like it's not hamilton hamilton's different it's that's the unicorn it's not wicked it's not lion king yeah it's um let's go to work let's do our best let's hope these audiences respond and tell their friends and then their friends come that's that's what even at broadway that's ultimately what it's about there's no guarantee what's inside of your contract even there i mean you're comparing you know it's hard to compare anything to hamilton you're right it's such an outlier you know a phenomenon but um even even there across the board from off-broadway all the way up to the tip top it's rare air i mean the the amount of young men and women who have broadway dreams versus the amount that make it there it's just it's just so tiny like it's a very small percentage absolutely if you're there you're living the dream like whatever it is at whatever capacity at whatever level you made it into like a very tiny space it's really really special what was your first experience lion king was your first broadway experience what what is your life who starts with the lion king and on my 22nd birthday was the day that we started out of town in minneapolis and we moved into the theater of the new amsterdam theater on my 22nd birthday september that's crazy i mean the lion king is also it's tip tip top right i mean it's you almost can't compare anything to it either did it feel like were you just were you dazzled were you dazzled because this is a i don't know i'm trying to i'm trying to imagine 22 year old you like dropped in the middle of this like storied production how did it feel were you overwhelmed were you thrilled both it was absolutely thrilling uh you know i i developed this this thing that i that i continue to do with every show that i do anytime my name is on a poster before every show i'm going to find my name on that poster i i need out front in the theater walking by there's something about um there's something about the doing of theater that focuses the mind in a different kind of way so by the time you're actually doing it it's very difficult to sort of step back in the in the process or in the wings and be like wow yeah i'm here yeah because you're like here well but also here is eight shows a week here is missing birthdays going to physical therapy voice lessons gym sleeping while you know being up while everybody else is asleep the you know i don't my head doesn't have to pillow before 2 am when i'm doing a broadway show um it's it is working during the holidays it is having only two weeks a year if you're lucky and have a show that's running only having two weeks a year to take any time off to take a week off that's it that's it's relentless and it there is no off season off season is actually unemployment which sucks that's right you know what i mean so right it's a bizarre sort of um existence and even then um at at 22 you have all the energy in the world and it doesn't take a lot of strategic planning to navigate your life it's very simple right uh as i've gotten older and and had other things to do yeah it's become a very different prospect so having children being married um you you you kind of have you know broadway sort of is a job and it becomes but it don't it i hate to put it so cruelly but it almost becomes a mistress because the the the hole that it creates and fills on a daily basis creates and fills right it but it but that's you have to work very hard for it not to be the thing that consumes you and that's i think the greatest lesson that i've learned as i've gotten older is that you can't you can't it can't be your everything you have to pick your moments of discipline you have to be very very disciplined in order in order to manage and still be an effective parent and an effective partner and be your best you know self and try to time your best self for 805 at night that's a tricky thing it's something that i'm learning a lot but but honestly um hamilton did it you know for me uh i i i it helped you just dial it in oh yeah because the show was too hard to to pull off every night but emotionally um i'm still processing the experience it's five years later like i'm still undoing some of the knots from that experience can you talk about that a little bit what do you mean by that um so you know i i mentioned it you know broadway's sort of relentless it happens it's happening every single day and um then life stuff happens people in the audience don't really care that's right and that's not the job too yeah but you know the second week of of of previews my father passed away that was a difficult relationship it was my whole life it was sort of like a tether and an anchor and a weight and you know um and so life is happening in the midst of you know i we performed for the president on a sunday yeah and then my father passes away the following tuesday wow you talking about like the height of of you know and the honor uh that that that experience brings to just the like a like a brick being dropped on your head repeatedly and then you know that particular role required a lot of times uh it required you know i did a lot of research and washington experienced a lot of loss early in his life and you talk about dangerous ideas like i i came across that information right as i was experiencing this this loss and so every day it was like the height of the of of of of excitement and everybody and literally everybody in the world for two and a half years all we were talking about was hamilton or it was you know every the zeitgeist just could not get enough totally um and so you're dealing with all of this life stuff you know uh and in some ways uh it keep making that a part of your performance which is also a very very slippery slope unless you get locked in there yeah well you get or or you just associate it in that in that space and it becomes the thing you know because we're we're regular people off the stage and then we lock back in so it's it's um i was very fortunate that you know lynne moran is one of my best friends in the world he's my brother tommy kale is like the chris jackson whisperer the man and i have a such a deep relationship and he helped keep helped me to keep from from being consumed by this thing but um that was not that was certainly easier said than done and oh i'm glad that it happened the way that it happened but it's taking it's taken it took a long time for me to to um i believe you recover i believe you it's um it's it's not a typical or natural human experience to be at the absolute center of that much attention that much emotional output at such a gauntlet of a pace that it doesn't ever end there's no end of it it doesn't have an ebb and flow to it um i i really can only imagine how much therapy and like emotional relational connections outside of it it takes to keep you sort of grounded and centered [Music] we've all heard the saying health is wealth and i'm sure we can all agree that this is true maybe now more than ever however the health and wellness sphere can feel overwhelming like this huge mountain to climb like where do we even begin right i've experienced this i'm sure you probably have too we've all felt this in our own ways but let me ask you what if there was a way to just start like right where you are so for me that first step was new noom's the pathway toward better health one step at a time their psychology-based approach 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pretty much do what you want to do at this point in your career and so i'm curious what you've learned and and how you now um sort of structure your work life differently if you do well you know what's been helpful is to understand that for for the rest of my life i'm going to be post counseling that's you know what i mean like and and you can't pick and choose what point of reference people uh have for you yeah because remember we're doing this as a as an act for the sake of uh recalling emotionals emotional play uh content and storytelling to help an audience connect something in that story to their own experience right yes they will right and well but we have you know as actors we're trained in accessing our emotional selves through a character right in the effort of and that's why i say you know acting and performing is a gift it's a generous act right it is it is to help someone facilitate an idea and so whatever idea that that you know audience member a b or c has had that's where you stay that's right that's where you live that's what we do when we see a will smith movie we gotta know especially early in his career like independence day that's will smith yep and then he takes the next 30 years trying to amend that or or express a different idea right yeah theater's a little bit more of an imprint because theater happens once and then it never happens again yeah the the hamilton film came out and that was the core over the course of three days and those are at the most three performances that will never that have not existed since we did it in 2016. um so in in essence you are inexorably linked to that emotional construct that that person totally that imprint that has been made yeah um i wish that i had uh i i wish that i could say i have control over what i choose to do in some some ways i do and most ways i don't um as a creator as someone who is writing and looking to create other projects that is where i can you know sort of express creative control over an idea that i want to promote i can paint a picture that i want to paint right um but the business is still the business and so it's it's a sort of a tricky thing between taking the thing that people that imprint that has been made already and trying to nudge the audience make something that nudges the audience to believe me in a different light or to see me in a different place my wife and i were picking out uh we just bought our first home uh last month we're moving next next saturday and we're in a blind store and a guy walks there he's like i love you on bull i didn't know you sang yeah it's just wherever people make it wherever they find you yes it's the point that they meet you um and so i i often say that like that's why especially in this day and age it isn't about walking around like hyper aware of your notoriety or your celebrity or whatever it's really about what it is that you're doing that will continue to help people connect with an idea or a thought um social media has turned our lives in some respects into performance art which is why things seem so crazy and why every once in a while you'll see someone who's decided to do a one-arm handstand on the top of the empire state building like they're expressing something but it has an effect on people you know what i mean um and and which is why i i do i'm very conscientious about what i put out in the world i try to be very purposeful i try to not react to everything but respond to things thoughtfully and um and i just try to like move through space with empathy and with uh as much understanding as i can muster after my time with hamilton as i was sort of processing all the things i spoke about earlier it was really important to try to establish boundaries because also when you lose your anonymity yeah it changes you it changes how you see the world it changes everything about the experience of living it changes going to how it going to the just going to get gas or going to buy orange juice and you know in the morning um it changes everything and that was the part that that's the part that no one can ever really prepare you for it's the part that no one really understands unless you've absolutely been there like so i i always say like am i proud of being you know a member of that cast there's no question all of the things that you would expect to hear from someone who was lucky enough to be in that position but it's a full meal it's not you know what i mean it's not just it's not just the lean meat you know it's that's right to eat all the bad parts too that's exactly right difficult parts to choose and it doesn't go away that's what it is like that's your that's that's what it's going to be it's a bit of a trade-off um to be a part of something so wildly successful magical and the trade-off is the entire world knows you it's real i know yeah i do know um i'd like i love that you are also you know you're a composer and you're a writer you're a creator um i'm i'm curious how it feels to you you know i'm a creator too i write um but my medium is different and i'm trying to imagine what it would be like to create something like you do and then watch it all come alive through other people's bodies and mouths and expression of it and interpretation of what it is you've written and then to watch even you know the stuff for the an audience respond to something you thought up out of your brain i it feels that just feels incredibly special to me what's what's that been like to you if you had to i don't know if this is possible to compare that might not even be a fair question but if you were sort of um be saying i've got this um experience as a performer um and then i've got this experience as a creator um how do they compare how do you feel in those different spaces what is that like for you i you know my favorite character from the bible is david because he was a musician right um there are certain ways in which um [Music] we've trained our eye our ear to hear see and then we trained our hands to do a certain thing um and then there's just that i don't i i i don't know what to call it i mean there's intuition or gut or you know oftentimes emotionally like the manifestation of something that i just know there's a truth to it yeah you know my skin starts i get chicken skin you know my goosebumps just start going um there's nothing better for me and i talk to lynn about this all the time there's nothing better than writing a song and hearing someone else sing it at that it's the most gratifying thing yeah in the world the only thing that gets better is like writing a song for a singer that you just know all the sweet spots that you want to hear and when you hear them there's not a better feeling okay there's nothing that comes close to it so singular um it is it is worthy of a lifetime pursuit i i quit piano lessons at 11 because i was missing a baseball practice and i was done stupid one of my one of my only regrets you know in life but i taught myself how to play and i taught myself how to play guitar and i taught myself how to play the harmonica and whatever other instrument that i could get in my house that and and the time that i had to do it because i had a gig that someone was paying me to write music for sure and i couldn't send that mute i just couldn't pay this musician or know that guy found a way got a job got a computer off we were going and then once i realized it is possible let's go you know my life is theater of the possible if you give me a little bit of time and you create and there's an opportunity that either i can create or that someone has has offered me i'm going to do my best to take advantage of it because i can find a new way of expressing myself i get an idea from hearing you know a couple of notes on a piano that may inspire something that i shoot on television next week yeah the idea of creation is the thing that is so um it's just intoxicating uh and it says so many things that i can't say with words um to to my wife to my friends to my mom to my godfather to my siblings like um i am in no way a a outstanding human being but i try i try to be and so we find the ways in which we can much like what happened in high school find a way to just get an idea out yeah i for whatever reason can't express um you know you say shakespeare wrote wrote sonnets because he wanted someone to know how he felt about them you know and i'm thinking that he probably wasn't as eloquent than when he went away and sat down with this pin and put things to paper you know and so that's the it's it that's the life's pursuit you know much in the same way a painter a painter feels you know has a a breakup van gogh painted he didn't always just cut his ear off but i'm thinking that he did that because he couldn't find the right vision of the right words or the right you know like artists are crazy but we find ourselves you know it's the pursuit of the thing that's right you know that's why i'm i'm i am vehemently against people's perception of thinking that i've made it you know that's been a real populist coming into my head a lot lately and i've heard it a lot but like you never as an artist you never make it totally never make it like that i'm compatible with the creative life yeah yes that i can pay my bills is a miracle that i could buy a house i'm 45 years old and i'm been doing tv for five years and now i'm just being able to like buy a house but thank god right my kids will have an experience that they that normally nobody would think was even possible but i'll never have made it because i'm still making of course there's no there's no finish line there i'm just trying to like i'm just trying to put two thoughts together and then try to make them make sense you know i love that so much so as we kind of start wrapping it up and speaking of i'm making i'm creating what's what are you what are you working on or what do you want to work on you've now dipped your toe into more than one medium and um and you seem to take to all of it with a lot of like comfortability and natural charisma is there a frontier you'd like to tackle that you haven't been in or do you have something new brewing in one of your other buckets that you're already filling i have enjoyed doing a lot of the music work that i'm doing in the in the the children's space i love neil children as it's hard to believe but comparatively speaking with all of the other facets of entertainment children the children's space is the least um it had the least amount of of content there's a huge opening and and there always has been for just creating more um more content uh so i'm working with nickelodeon which is super exciting yeah um on on we we started a product a project called rhymes through times it was a three song series that we did just in this last year anime series um we're gonna be doing more it looks like with them which is exciting i get to incorporate all of my friends my singers i bring them over to my studio and i have them sing backgrounds my wife does you know things with my daughter um so doing that uh i'm we're about to hang a shingle for um with my one of my best friends uh called honorific productions which is a media uh production you know uh company to to tell black stories uh yeah we have 450 years of it and we've just started scratching the surface so in that there's some film there's some television there's some books hopefully where you know like it's it's um we want to create a place where our friends can come create things and we can help put it out i love to hear that yeah and so doing more in that space uh starting uh season six of bowl yeah on tuesday very exciting tv and that's completely different pace than broadway easy nothing's harder than broadway so from a labor standpoint yeah absolutely nothing is harder if you can do that you can tell you can do any sort of tv program and i have the shortest attention span in the world so shooting an episodic it's it's pretty hard actually it can be anyway sitting still standing still watching paint dry in a courtroom so slow but um but i'm gonna be getting into directing television as well um nice hopefully are you and yeah yeah so it that because it's its own art form and and it's a new it's a new thing so i want to try a new thing um you know we're about to move kind of a big deal so yeah you know first time holding over home ownership is gonna be crazy um and then and then finally putting a record out like that's that's gonna start happening that'll happen give it to us what do we have to say to you what do you need to hear from we the people there is coming it's coming i just it's you know like with me it's got to be all of one thing or all of another thing so everyone talks about non-negotiables and dating but i want to talk about non-negotiables when it comes to traveling and here's mine i will not wear uncomfortable shoes i like won't even pretend i'm going to wear them by packing those pretty but painful pairs i've done it a million times and they never get worn so i just returned from a week in north carolina in new york city and you wanna know what was on my feet and in my suitcase rothy's check my pictures i've been wearing rothy's slip-on sneakers on travel days for a long time but what i also love is their new range of styles that includes ballet flats and adorable pointy flats and loafers all more and more more they're so versatile and they go with everything you've packed plus they feel like you're walking on clouds now if you're a rothy's shoe girl like me did you know they have bags too their overnighter bag is perfect for travel or really any day you can throw it all in there everything you got everything we tote around all the time rothy's also recently launched a shoe line for the men in our lives and these shoes are handsome because they are designed with an artisanal level of detail and of course created sustainably with nearly zero waste just like all brought these products so you can step up your wardrobe and your travel outfits with washable sustainable and stylish shoes and bags from rothys just head over to rothys.com for the love to find your new favorites today it's r-o-t-h-y-s dot com slash for the love so we're reading daring greatly by brene brown this month over in the gin hat maker book club um so so powerful even the subtitle of daring greatly packs a punch how the courage to be vulnerable transforms the way we live love parent and lead so naturally i've been thinking about vulnerability a lot lately and while it can be transformative of course there are many feelings including fear associated with being truly known so no matter what you're processing right now a very brave part of supporting yourself can be through therapy i just believe in this so much because it's been such a radically positive thing for me which is why i love sharing better help with my community it's professional therapy but it's all online which means it's convenient affordable accessible you just open that laptop or hop on the phone and you're there their licensed counselors have a super broad range of expertise categories specializing in everything from depression to anxiety to trauma family conflict you name it betterhelp is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches so they make it easy and free to change counselors if you need to you can start communicating with a therapist in under 24 hours and you'll get timely thoughtful responses there is no time like the present to embrace vulnerability and begin working through whatever small or big feelings are happening in your own world so as a listener you'll get 10 off your first month by visiting our sponsor at betterhelp.com for the love join more than a million people who have taken charge of their mental health at betterhelp.hep.com for the love okay we're wrapping it up here chris so these are that we have a whole broadway series on the show and it's incredible we have just you and just the best folks so we're asking everybody in this series these kind of like just off the top of your head wrap up questions here's the first okay all right obviously live theater is a vulnerable thing um can you just tell us about a moment in your theater career that is just highly memorable either because it was so incredible or so catastrophic we'll take either the catastrophic ones are kind of fun my yeah i don't i put those out of my head really really quickly look at you i do i do i've fallen upstairs going up staircases broken chairs but we're not going to get into that because i'm not going to get anything out of my head my insecurity is insane uh my favorite theater moment didn't happen in a theater to happen in the east room in the white house um it's on youtube the the symmetry of standing in front of barack obama with my best friend right under that stewart portrait of washington a black man in the white house playing uh that guy standing in front of the other guy who's from my home state i can't handle it i've seen such goosebumps yeah the legacy hairs raised and theater made that happen and theater was there when we were there that was theater that was moment theater describes the emotional experience of of perfor of witnessing and performing um that's what theater is to me uh and and so church was had there and and thank god it's on video oh mike i've probably watched it 20 times i've talked about 100 because there are moments where that i i swear if i don't continue to watch it it won't happen it wouldn't have happened it didn't this is too magic yeah that says i still have goosebumps they won't go away like oh that was so i'm so happy you talked about that second second question can you talk can you say who your um favorite broadway icon is and how that person has influenced you uh it's a tie between ben vereen and uh brian stokes mitchell nice uh i've had the opportunity to work with both since i you know became aware of their their presence brian uh embodies all that i dreamed of when i came to new york uh and he could not he it's only surpassed by his graciousness and his his gran his generosity uh brian looked like i did and as a young man coming into a theater community where there was only two shows that i could have been in and neither one of them would have casted me because i looked the way i did yeah uh and then of course you know mr vereen who and even in all of his uh all of his experience in his whole lifetime dedicated to this he he speaks to me as if uh we're doing we're on the same level that we're in the same place anytime we see one another um and that kind of generosity of spirit is unparalleled yeah mean a lot to me i love that last question um ask everybody this in every series final question it's from barbara brown taylor she's a episcopal priest that i love anyway her question is this and you can answer this literally in any possible way you want to big small important not important earnest silly doesn't matter what's saving your life right now kindness i discovered about a month ago that i was not kind to the people that i care about the most because i let myself be overwhelmed by all the things that i have to do all the things that are important my tired my fatigue my stress my anxiety which is very real um i was not being kind and wow it's amazing how light that load gets once you start making that your focus and i'm 45 years old and for the first time in my life this last month has been the best lightest time in my that i can ever remember in that um you turn a page and you say okay what can i do and when you start asking other people how can i serve you starting at home how can i what can i do how can i hear what would you like and and turning everything else just putting everything else down yeah you got to pick up the same bags that you said right you don't have to pick up a carry around the same burden that you [Music] woke up with or that you went to bed with and so i feel better i'm clearer of mine i'm clearer of purpose um i am in spite of a really crazy schedule as you've experienced trying to get this podcast recorded um it's it is uh i'm hearing i'm hearing i'm hearing god talk to me in ways that i haven't heard as an adult and i'm looking in the mirror less yeah whoa what a great answer helps that helps and there's a lot more happiness and there's a lot more peace and ain't nothing figured out nothing has come together i know i mean i do it's the but it is the um it's a different north star it is a different north star and everything's better when you feel better that's right you know what i mean everything's right you don't have anxiety when you're busy worrying about other people that's right and you've given yourself an act of choice and so so good i say much in the way that paul got his his sight taken away on the road i got i lost my voice alone in dc and stopped talking and started listening and since then um it's just a month ago it's still very new but it's it's i'm experiencing a very real uh awakening and i like it yeah fantastic i mean on that final sermon note thank you i'm so proud of you i'm so thrilled to watch you go i love your sweet little family i just can't wait to see what you continue to create and bring to the world but just kind of being who you are in the world is so special and so um thank you for um putting your hand to your work with such like care and love and dedication and doing it with such integrity and honor kindness that's a great i've never had anybody say that answer before and i loved it so um and thank you for being on this show today my community loves you it's too you can't do anything about it you can it's mutual bye bye wasn't he delightful i mean everything we would want him to be in more and you'll just be so glad to know that he's just such a good husband and such a great dad and a good friend and just a good human uh i'm always so thrilled when people like chris are wildly successful i'm so happy so happy for him for his family um and i'm i'll be watching him forever i mean it really honestly the album well sign us up you know what i'm saying give us the album chris jackson crying out loud chris has one of my favorite voices that i've maybe ever heard if you are new to him your next assignment after this podcast is to google him and listen to him sing that's that is you don't get to do anything before you do that he's wildly gifted and i don't even say anyways um if you go to jynhatmaker.com under the podcast tab we'll have all of this over there for you we will have the show notes we'll have links oh my gosh we will link to that video of him singing to the obamas in the white house that he mentioned as the highlight of his career i cried through the whole thing the first time i thought we'll link to everything all things chris jackson so and you can head over there for a one-stop shop you guys more to come in the incredible broadway series it's so fun to like peek behind the curtain and hear more and learn more and hear about these incredible experiences that it's just it's such a teeny little space it's so niche it's so special um and i'm telling you we've got some of the absolute best so you guys come back next week thanks for uh subscribing to the show and for reviewing and rating the show that is so helpful for us and thank you for your comments we read every single thing we're always looking for your feedback we always want to hear what you love who you'd like to hear from where you're at how this connected so thank you for always responding when i post these on socials because we comb through your responses anyway you guys be back next week for more of the broadway series you're going to love it see you then [Music] you

Channel: Jen Hatmaker

Views: 5,780

Keywords: jen hatmaker, jen hatmaker podcast, jen hatmaker channel, jen hatmaker christian, jen hatmaker for the love, jen hatmaker interview, jen hatmaker latest, jen hatmaker now, jen hatmaker videos, jen hatmaker youtube, christopher jackson, christopher jackson hamilton, christopher jackson interview, christopher jackson broadway, christopher jackson hamilton role, christopher jackson religion, christopher jackson singing, knowing who you are, knowing who you are in christ

Id: XQmV4CPW5Nk

Length: 60min 16sec (3616 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 21 2021