Gretchen Rubin, "Outer Order, Inner Calm"

thank you so much I'm so happy to be here I guess lots of happy and it's so cool I love being back in this beautiful place again at six and I and there's nothing like seeing Washington DC's cherry blossoms to put you in the mood for some spring cleaning so we are ready to jump in so I'm gonna talk for 30 to 40 minutes about you know spoiler alert outer order and then we're gonna have some time for your questions so be thinking of your questions because that's always my favorite part now sometimes people ask me what is my subject and my subject is human nature I'm interested in who we are why do we do what we do how can we change if we want to change and for that reason I've been thinking and talking to people for years about subjects like happiness good habits self-knowledge and I noticed something surprising over and over you know I'd be talking to people about things like how do we engage more deeply with the people we love or how do we make more time to read or how do we know ourselves better and people would be very interested in this I'm super interested in it we'd have a great conversation but then the subject would turn to outer order and people would get fired up there's something about this subject that just has a special emotional buzz to it I mean hate the question of make your bed how many people here regularly make their bed yes how many people here regularly make their bed in a hotel room on the morning they check out your hand went up right away yes we will talk later I think there's just something about this subject there's just a buzz to it there's an emotional charge to it that doesn't really make sense because we can all agree that in the context of a happy life something like a crowded coat closet or a messy desk it's trivial and yet over and over people tell me and I certainly feel this way myself that when we get more control over the stuff in our lives we feel more in control of our lives generally and if it's an illusion it's a helpful illusion how many people here have listened to the happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast okay yes great oh thank you thank you thank you okay well you've heard me talk about Elizabeth so the thing about our order is that some people or clutter blind some people don't feel it Elizabeth doesn't feel it it doesn't drain her it doesn't overwhelm her if she didn't live with other people she would not close a kitchen cabinet door as long as she lived but she does live with other people and for most people our order does contribute to inner calm and a sense of energy and a sense of focus and even a sense of possibility I was talking to a friend who said you know I finally cleaned out my fridge and now I know I could switch careers I know exactly how that feels so why why is there this deep disproportionate connection between outer order and inner calm for most people well there's many reasons one just on the most superficial level life is easier you can find things research suggests that the average American adult spends fifty five minutes a day looking for misplaced objects imagine what you could do with fifty five minutes in your day so it's easier to find things it's easier to put things away it's easier to clean you don't have to run out to the hardware store and buy a tape measure even though you know perfectly well you have a tape measure somewhere life is just easier and freer when we get rid of the old files the old storage containers we just feel lighter and that also clearing clutter creating outer order often rids us of things that make us feel bad sometimes our stuff makes us feel bad like maybe I have a pair of boots and I spent too much money on those and I don't wear those boots but I should wear those boots but I don't wear those boots but I could wear those boots but I don't feel like we're in those boots today and so I don't wear them and they just sit there accusingly then there's the unfinished project I started 1,000 piece puzzle on my dining room table I've about 30 pieces in and it just sits there what am I gonna do I can't stop I've already started I don't feel like doing it but so there it sits or there are possessions that we have that are related to the fantasy self you know I have a fantasy that I'm gonna learn to play guitar so I buy a guitar and I buy a music standard I buy music and yet I'm not teaching myself to play guitar and so the guitar just sits there I myself just recently got rid of a pair of leather pants I mean what was I thinking I had those things for years and I finally got them off my shelves and off my conscience so by creating outer order we eliminate these things that make us feel bad and here's something that's surprising is that when we get rid of the stuff that's kind of clogging our vision we often feel more engaged with what we have and my sister Elizabeth calls me a happiness bully because I can't be quite insistent if I think there's an opportunity for you to be happier and I want to get right in there and so one of the ways this comes out is I begged my friends to let me come over and help them clear their clutter because for me it's like the contact tie of all the clutter clearing but none of the emotional uneasiness that you get when it you have to make decisions about your own stuff so I love it so and I've had an experience over and over and I just felt this way myself so let's say I'm helping a friend go through clothes club clutter so we'll go through their closet and take out maybe two or three bags of stuff to donate and the person walks back to the closet gaze is inside and says wow I feel like I have so much more to where we just objectively not true because there are fewer items in the closet and yet when we get rid of all the things that are in our way then we feel more engaged with the things we have we want them we want to use them we know they fit we know they're there you know sometimes you get in there you one time I hope I was helping my husband clean out his closet I was holding up pairs of pants you know keeper or donate and he looked at one point he said I have never seen that pair of pants before in my life like somebody snuck in here one night and hung him so he wasn't wearing them he wasn't enjoying them so he could either wear them and enjoy them or give them away to somebody who could wear them and so when we do this we feel more engaged and that's a good feeling and then there's another reason why outer order contributes to inner calm and it's really a much more profound reason sometimes people feel uneasy about the idea of seeking out order they think it seems selfish or self-centered you know you think with everything that's going on in the world today this is really superficial this is a distraction and yet research shows and I think common experience reflects that when we do things to help ourselves to feel happier and calmer and to boost our own sense of self mastery that's when we're able to turn outward and to think about the problems of other people and the problems of the world and often by tackling what seemed like pretty minor challenges we actually prepare ourselves to go out and deal with much bigger challenges something that's important to remember though is that we're not all the same there's no magic one-size-fits-all solution for how to go about this because we all have different habits we have different challenges we want to arrive in different places and when we do this in a way to suit ourselves we're much better able to create and maintain order in a way that works for us so in the book I've got like a hundred and fifty things to think about and I would like to talk about all 150 but we don't have time so I'm gonna hit the big ones the questions that come up over and over and the tips that seem to resonate to most people and of course the first question that anybody asks is where do you start because we've all had that experience of just like oh my gosh this is so overwhelming I don't even know where to begin so where do you start well I will tell you where you should not start don't stare start by declaring that you're gonna get organized don't get organized people who are gonna get organized often have this impulse to run to the store and buy complicated sets of hangers inventive storage containers filing cabinets binders I do not know it is what it is about people in our binders like it because like people just want to buy binders no don't get organized if you get rid of everything you don't want to keep you may not need to organize something at all I have this jacket just talking to a guy last week and he was saying how he had a lot of paperwork and he had vowed that he was gonna get organized and he was gonna you know sort it and put it in chronological order and three-hole punch in the whole business then he realized that it was actually mostly related to pet insurance and he realized that he did not need to have this extensive files of his pet insurance and besides it was all online so he really said could this get rid of all of it so he had nothing left to organize and surprisingly this this happens we think I read everything that you don't need to keep a lot of times you don't need to get organized it on you just put it away you don't need a filing cabinet if you just have three pieces of paper that fit into a manila folder that go into your the top drawer of your desk so then the question is okay but how do you decide how do you decide what to hang on to what do you decide to keep what do you relinquish what do you toss what do you recycle what do you donate I think the most helpful question to me is do I love it do I use it do I need it sometimes we have stuff we just love and I think there's room in our hearts in our homes for some of that stuff within reason for example in my case one of the things that I just love it do you remember years and years ago there was this fad and it's these it's like a poster and it looks like this just like a pattern magicai it looks like a pattern but if you kind of blurry your eyes and go like move forward and backwards like a three-dimensional thing pops out so I have a book of postcards of magic I you know designs and every three to five years I pull it out I'm just like whew you know and I love it what do I get I'm not gonna send the post Kurtz because I want them I mean nobody else cares do I really need it do I use it that often I really I just love it so I'm gonna keep that another stuff that you using you need you know like I have a pair of scissors and I don't have a particularly strong emotional attachment to those scissors but they do their little job well so I'm gonna keep these scissors but if you don't use it need it or love it that is like the charging cord to nowhere you know like the weird things that just accumulate in the corner of the cabinets or you know in a basket somewhere and you have no idea what that thing is if you don't need it use it or love it probably it's something that you can get rid of you know the bread maker from five years ago okay you don't need that you don't use it you don't need it you don't love it just let it move on and here's a funny test that many people respond to that has to do with clothes clutter which is one of the most annoying kinds and that is to consider the X Factor so imagine with an item of clothing you are walking down the street and you run into your ex are you happy that you are wearing that item of clothing you're thinking yes then keep it if you're really really weighting that oversized sweatshirt maybe it's time to let that thing go and yet there is an easier faster cheaper way to create outer order and that's not to let the stuff in the front door in the first place keep it yeah just keep it out keep it out because once it gets in we have to figure out what to do with it so how do you do that one thing to do is recognize if you have a certain kind of clutter which I would call anticipatory clutter or preparatory clutter this is the person that's like this thing would make a great birthday present for someone I don't know anybody who's got a birthday coming up but I think I'll just go ahead and get this thing now and then is this like you got to deal with that thing what you can't do if you have a tendency to do that is you could just store it at the store they won't hang onto that for you they haven't put away very nicely and whenever you decide that you want it you go get it but for now you'll just leave it there that's one way to keep things out another thing another way stuff comes in is impulse purchases it's 11 o'clock at night you had a glass of wine quick quick quick and then you end up so something you don't need user love so if this is something that is a temptation for you an easy solution is to delete your accounts this means that every time you shop you have to shop as a guest which means you have to enter your billing information your credit card information and your shipping information it's not an insurmountable hurdle if there's something you really want or need but it's enough of a hassle that often people are like yeah you know what I just I'll deal with it some other time and then you never think of it again or if your temptation is when you're in a store don't take a basket or a cart because if you have to carry that stuff around with you as you go around the store a lot of times again it's just not worth the inconvenience it's not worth the effort so then you think oh come back and deal with it another time and then again it just never occurs to you and also be very wary of freebies conference swag hand-me-downs bargains things that feel free can end up costing us a lot of time and money because we have to deal with it it's like yes you went to a conference and they gave you this super cute cow shape pencil sharpener and you're like okay and then you bring it home and you're like what do you do with the cow shapes sharpener where do you put it you don't even own any pencils I mean it's like what do you now you got to figure out what to do with it it's too good to just throw it away but who nobody wants it my own temptation is tote bags I cannot resist a tote bag in fact just last night I was in Plano Texas and they handed me a tote bag and even though I had literally just said that I did not want to take tote bags it took every ounce of my strength and I don't think I would have been able to resist the topic except somebody else said oh I'll take the tote bag if you don't want it I was like yes please take it save me from myself I cannot resist a tote bag there's only so many tote bags one if you're you know one person can use one family can use I mean one apartment building can use I can cover everybody so be very careful about these things and here's the thing sometimes people say to me well I don't want to deal with outer order because I don't want to contribute to the landfill but here's the sad truth we contribute to the landfill the minute we reach out for that thing because whether the cow shaped pencil sharpener goes into the landfill tomorrow or whether it goes in there forty years from now when my children do a Swedish death cleaning on my apartment it's going there so if we want to keep things out of the landfill don't take them because that's where they're going once we have them something else to think about is how do we keep clutter maintained once we've created it because everybody's had the very discouraging experience of spending an entire day or after you know weekend cleaning up the kitchen or cleaning out an office and then a week later it's like nothing ever changed and so how do you maintain it once you've got it going so that you don't have to keep doing these sort of heroic efforts it's much easier to keep keep up than to catch up and so we want to have habits that will help us maintain it as we go along so one the things that has really worked for a lot of people is the one minute rule this is a rule that anything you can do without delay you just go ahead and do it if you can hang up your coat on a hook instead of throwing it on a chair if you can put rip open a letter scan it and realize you don't need it and toss it just do that without delay and what that does is it gets rid of the that this task that are sort of the scum on the surface of life where they're not they're not a big deal on their own but when you just look at a whole bunch of them it just makes you feel weight down so the one minute rule is a very manageable way to do it as you go the other one kind of related is power hour which is when you take an hour just an hour once a week and tackle this tasks that kind of mount up and clutter your brain and clutter your house because things that can be done at any time are often done at no time so I'm like you know I need to get new heels put on these shoes so I think I will put them on the kitchen counter right by the coffee machine where they do not belong but if I put in there I will remember to take them to the shoe place a week goes by a month goes by six months go by there's no sittin there coz why am I gonna go to the shoe place today but power hours of way to accumulate this little task and then just an hour at a time to do them we often overestimate what we can do in a short amount of time like an afternoon and we underestimate what we can do in a little amount of time if we do it consistently over the long term and here is a strategy that a friend of mine told me about and I have to confess I was very skeptical when she told me was like well I'll try anything so okay I'll give it a shot and this is the rule to take one thing with you so let's say I'm in my home office and I have a dirty coffee cup and I'm going to the bedroom so I will take it with me to the bedroom I'm not gonna take it to the kitchen because who could be bothered to go to the kitchen but I will take it with me to the bedroom which is sort of closer to the kitchen that's how it works and I said to my friend I don't think that you understand that you're just shuffling clutter around your house she said no no no try it and the fact is it really works it's much quicker things just get into their place much more quickly and again it's the kind of thing that you can do as you go you don't have to take a time out of your day if you don't want to these are things that are just very concrete and manageable for even people who are very overwhelmed it's also important to ask ourselves what kind of person are we why do we have the clutter that we have and how my other people be different because we all want to end up at different places one question to ask yourself is are you an over buyer or an under buyer some people are neither over buyers are the people who love to buy they love to go prepare for things you know they're going to get everything they possibly need for the summer they're gonna get everything they possibly need for a trip they tend to accumulate large stores of slow-moving items like toothpaste or canned soup and you can see how this could tributes to clutter because they all this stuff they have to store they have to manage it they have to deal with it it's like a pages builds up then there are under buyers and under buyers don't like to buy things they don't like to run errands they don't like to get stuff they often don't like specialized project products like I'm an under buyer and it's only recently that I have really made peace with facial tissue I said I was really like we this is who needs this level of specialty I mean we could just blow our nose a toilet paper you know like I don't use hair conditioner I'm like what is that you know want to products what is enough so you like they put what would under buy our sub clutter because they don't they don't want to bring anything in that's why they have clutter because the idea of having to go out and get something is so loathsome to them that they hang on to everything for fear that they might have to get it so you know somebody gives me some hideous electric blue sweater that I don't like and I've never worn but I hang on to it because I think well what if one day I did one an electric blue sweater like what I want to go get one no I would not so underwires often hang onto things too much and they need to remember as I've often reminded myself to let things go if they're not if I don't use them don't need them don't love them and then worry about it later if it turns out that I need something another good question to ask is are you a simplicity lover or an abundance lover and this is important because really people want to get to very different places when they are creating out order not everybody wants to end up in the same place so simplicity lovers are people like me we like bare counters and a lot of room on the shelves like I literally have empty shelves in my house I love that not that much on the wall not that much going on you know it's one little vase with one little rosebuds that's a simplicity lever but then there are abundance lovers and they love profusion and choice and collections and buzz they like piles of things with unexpected juxtapositions they want stuff on the coffee table and that's what they like not everyone wants a capsule wardrobe and this can create conflict and disagreement because sometimes people say I'm right you're wrong I'm a boss and I say a cluttered desk needs a cluttered mind maybe it does for me but that doesn't mean the same thing is true for you what to me feels like beautiful emptiness could feel stripped and sterile and like a timeshare to someone else because they're like where's the stuff people want to end up in very different places and I was reminded of this because related to this difference is people who are account er bearers and people who are account er fillers like some people just walk bare counters like me I work like crazy to get everything off my counters but then some people like stuff on the counters and I went over to a friend's house and I had a her counter next to things like the coffee machine she had a bagel slicer a jar of wooden spoons a spoon rest a big bottle of fancy olive oil a giant pepper mill a bottle of pain reliever I mean you know on and I was like do you maybe want me to help me help you find some places to put this stuff away oh no I like having it out you know I like having things at the ready I like to be able to see what I need right in front of me the see it's not clutter because she'd mindfully put those things there she liked having them there they were ranged just the way she wanted them so it wasn't clutter it wasn't my preference but it's just but it's not clutter and so we always need to remember that people want to arrive in different places and we have to create an environment where everyone can thrive but it's not that everyone will necessarily agree another important thing to be aware of is do you procrustean this is when the desire to procrastinate takes the form of vacuuming every floor in your house or something like that and the way there is helpful preparation you know we've all done that thing where you have to write the annual report so you you know you put the files away you put the trash on the trash it get a rid of the you put the pens in the pen cup you do all that stuff and that helps you focus that's helpful preparation but then [Music] procrastinate I have to write the annual report I'm looking around and I see that there's this bookshelf that I haven't really focused on in a while it's full of stuff I think that I need to take everything off that bookshelf scrub it down go through the books alphabetize them maybe color code them who can say and before I can possibly start work that's four across declaring another thing to watch out for is the accidental stockpile this is when you accidentally acquire too much of a of something because it seems useful you know like your family eats lots of pickles and you're like well you can always use a good glass star and then pretty soon you have like 45 pickle jars my daughter Eliza when she was in kindergarten she did a hundreds project you know how kids they have them do these projects so they grasped the number 100 so liza picked playing cards which i thought was a very clever choice but once our girl did a project that involved 100 ketchup packets and so i said to her mother how in the world did you get your hands on a hundred ketchup packets and she said are you kidding we got a thousand ketchup packets because we got three jillion drawers in our kitchen full of ketchup packets that's an accidental stockpile he's like what do you do with it now I'm like you're gonna have to like drive that to a food bank hi you know it's like you know you can say to them no condiments no utensils food only like don't let this ketchup into your house so you want to watch out for an accidental stockpile but the last question that I want to tackle and then we'll open it up to your question such as I say is my favorite part this is a question that comes up all the time and this is the question when someone asks I am the neat one this is the messy one how do I make the messy one become neater and the sad fact about everything related to happiness and all related subjects is the only person that we can change is ourselves it is very tempting to think I would be happier if this person would behave properly and have a long list of demands but unfortunately we don't get the handout homework like that the only person that we can change is ourselves but the fact is when I change a relationship changes and when I change the atmosphere of my surroundings change and so often we can bring about larger change by changing ourselves and so to set the stage for my answer to this question and to prepare your minds for white I think it's right I want to tell the story of Mike so Mike is a guy I have known for many many years I know his wife a little bit but I know Mike much better Mike and his wife both live in New York City they live in a big house on the suburbs they have two children aged six and three so they are in the season of stuff and Mike is the neat one and his wife is the messy one so because I am kind of a Happiness bull he I know I was asking Mike about this issue which I know has been sort of like a tension in their relationship for a long time and he was telling me about it saying things like you know it's like I'm home with the kids all day and the houses made us a pin and she's home with the kids all day in the house is a wreck that's like well you know I get it I get it and it's like and there's there are there other ways that this comes up for you he said I give you a perfect example often there are these household administrative tasks that she wants me to do and you know the other day I came home from work and she wanted me to do it so I sat down down on the kitchen table to to start and it was just so messy in there that I had to spend the next 45 minutes getting everything picked up before I could sit down again and then when I was done I didn't feel like doing it and then she was really annoyed with me because I didn't do this task that was important to her and I said okay well were you at the kitchen table because it's important to you to be in the thick of things you know some people just like to be in the middle of everything he said no it that's not really it for me so I said here's the thing Mike do you think that you could find a desk or some corner of a room where you could just arrange things the way you like them where you could create the outer order that you need to focus so you could sit down and do this task that everybody would agree to leave it alone so it's always there when you need to go to it and it'll be just the way you want it and it looked at me kind of puzzled and he said well I have an office that's like okay Mike why don't you use the office and he said because it's too messy so he saw where I was going with this pretty quick and but actually is quite neat and as we were starting to talk about it you could feel him getting excited and like he was getting really revved up to do it and indeed that this was a Friday morning when I saw him that weekend he sent me a before and after video of his office he spent five hours cleaning out his office he got up three huge bags of stuff he moved things all around his house he moved in a chair there so it was more like how he liked to sit and work on his laptop and it was great so I was talking to him about it the next week and I was like how's it going with the office and he said it's not exactly where I wanted to get stopped like another 10% to go but it's great I couldn't resist of course I was like what's the rest you know what's the rest that's the ten percent and he said well my winter coat is on the floor a lot you know I just it's just thrown on the floor and I said well why is your winter coat thrown on the Florence so why don't you just use the coat closet by the front door he said because it's full of all my wife's clothes and so I'm supposed to hang up my coat in the bedroom closet on the second floor because there's no room for my clothes down there okay you know it sounds like how big is the closet he said it was about that big not that big and I was like well his wife really does like clothes that's not a very big closet I could kind of see why it's crowded so I was talking about I said well the thing is Mike I really do think it's pretty unrealistic to think that someone is gonna hang up their daily coat but you probably putting it on and off several times a day putting it away in a second-floor bedroom closet that doesn't seem to me very realistic but I can also see why your wife is using the the main coat closet because it doesn't seem like that's very big so I said so here's the thing Mike do you think you could put a hook in the garage because I think a hook in the garage it's not ideal but it's so much more convenient if you're trying to go out to your car you're going to walk in the neighborhood it'll just be so much closer to where you need it I think you would have a better easier time of putting it away and then you wouldn't be throwing it on the floor of your office and he looked at me kind of puzzled and he said well we have a mudroom and I said well Mike why don't you hang up your coat in the mudroom and he said because it's too messy so what is the lesson of Mike clear your own clutter create your own outer order create your own outer order relentlessly and searchingly and honestly go through your own things the things that you have control over and get rid of everything that you don't need user love and many things happen when you do that first of all you may see new opportunities like you can use your office you can use your mudroom and so certain problems are just solved and sometimes not always but sometimes the messy ones get kind of swept up in this and they will kind of go along because a lot of people even if they are messy would like to have more outer order not all of them but some of them and also it's true that when we have more outer order in our own space with the things that belong to us we start to have more tolerance for other people's mess and also our myths also often seems different to us than other people's mess I mean this is like you know me saying yes you know I've been working on this scrapbook project in the dining room table for three months and my stuff is everywhere but you left crumbs on the kitchen counter and we can't live like that you know maybe my mess is adding to the overall visual clutter of an environment but I kind of take my I kind of give myself a pass I just think it about your mess if I get rid of my mess I think I'm gonna feel different about your mess because when we create outer order in what we can control ourselves we just feel differently now you could say that there are two kinds of mess that Mike was facing one was his office which was totally within his own control but one was family clutter that was that was shared but that's a shared environment and I think with the shared environment if you're the neat one you kind of have to admit that you're gonna be the one that's gonna be like hey team why don't we tackle the mudroom today because then eventually one's never gonna think about that but it is true that if you do what you can with what is within the ambit of your control you feel very differently about your environment and about your surroundings and you can have a lot more tolerance for people who maybe have a different point of view so the last thing I want to say and then we'll open it up for your questions is I really do think that for most people it is worth the time and the energy to think to think about how to create more outer order because I truly do believe that for many of us it really can help us lead the happier healthier more productive and more creative lives we yearn for so thank you so come up to the mics we can talk about the four tendencies we can talk about outer order of course children's literature whatever you want all right if you get a gold star for asking the first question because Kelly likes to ask the first question good evening thank you so I was wondering if you can come over to my house and it feels like he's gonna require age percent of the work I've done the 21 day challenge I've downsized a year ago it's really not that much left I also have a cleaning lady coming once a week so I give her things that she helps take things to write for donation and I was and I just kind of feel I don't have enough energy for the last 20% and I was wondering for the last how much percent 20 20% what sounds like you've done an amazing job so far so give yourself credit for having done the bulk of it and maybe think about what it is about the last thing is it emotions is it going through papers is it that there's a lot of decision-making and think also about what would make it easier first one thing that's interesting is that there are some people who say that when you do this you should really be by yourself so that you can concentrate and not be distracted and then also sometimes people will encourage you to hang on to things but for many people it's very helpful to have a companion just somebody who's there partly is like accountability partner like we're gonna do this because I'm here for three hours so what are we gonna do and then also they can help you sort of talk through if you get stuck on something and a lot of times it's more fun what there's a companion so maybe think about what could be or maybe you want to set yourself fun goals like I'm gonna do as much as I possibly can in a half an hour or I'm gonna try to beat my record time or listen to fun music you know try to make it more fun but just keep going cuz that last 20% is often the hardest but then it's the most ecstatic when you really get to that point so really think about that - how great you're gonna feel when it's done so good luck thank you thank you yeah so I have I have a different problem with the clothes I'm 69 years old I have all the clothes I've ever give or take yeah I have not changed sighs it's defended but it's basically the same I can fit the same clothes yes so and the problem is that I will not use something for 15 years and then suddenly there's a new use for it and it becomes the centerpiece of this year's collection and so I have a great deal of difficulty using that sort of it doesn't do anything for me right now because you have a 30 year horizon reincarnation yes and these things are really working they really are working because often I think people fantasize that it will work I actually you you actually do you know I'm not saying I use all of bright no no no I get it random yeah 20% we'll see this is the thing this is why clutter clearing is a little bit like casino gambling okay because if you hang on to everything there will be a day when somebody's like what we need is a cord to a fax machine manufactured in 1985 and you're like hang on and you go get it and you feel amazing and so everything in your house is for that hit you know you're like I cannot risk not getting my hip so I think I would say take a gamble take a gamble I mean it's just like how many times does that happen maybe ten times it's happened it's happened I should be wearing that pantsuit from 1970 to right now right right right it could be called bottom okay yeah I mean I guess that's all it's all it's every I would not say that you should or you shouldn't it's whatever works for you how much stuff is it if you're like violets it's a lot can you pick out your favorite things are thoroughly there are things and you're like even if this came back in fashion I wouldn't even want to wear it like I don't like it it was sprat see the zipper it's weird I don't know I've never really liked heel whatever it is and just try to get it down to the things you think are really worth keeping to me that feels very overwhelming to manage that but if you really find it satisfying way to go okay okay good all right good excellent interesting problem yes hi though I'm a questioner I'm actually described in the questioner section of the four tendencies like literally it's you yeah oh I am very messy and I really am not convinced that outer order matters and I've read the intro I hear you so what question Isaac westeners often say why should I make my bed every morning I just unmake it every night that is not an efficient use of anybody's time I'm like you got me yeah so I just you know I read your intro which is the part that looks like it has the most on what matters and so I'm just wondering if you can do anything else to convince me you know here's here's the interesting thing there is actually a lot of research but I don't really cite that research because I don't really believe the research because the research is often trying to tell you the best way this is the best way this is the most efficient way you're gonna cut down on your blah blah blah blah blah and I'm like it's just in my in my observation there just aren't generalizations like that like even if it's on balance it's like they did they did a study of Stanford undergraduates eating marshmallows it turns out they eat marshmallows faster in a messy environment it's like but what about you what would you do because people are really really wildly different and what what stimulates their creativity what makes them feel productive I mean it's sort of like is it better to work in the morning or in the night it doesn't really matter what's best because if you're a night person it doesn't mean it's like you got a you know you're just dead in the morning you've meant to do so so so I'm not going to throw a lot of statistics at you because I sort of feel like those aren't very helpful on an individual basis even if they're interesting kind of on a on a wide basis but I would say well what about for you like do you find that you can find things more easily you can put things away more easily you have less decision fatigue which is something that's very often a particular problem for questioners because they can have analysis paralysis so to really think about the reasons for you about your own efficiency and productivity and like mental noise but if you truly feel like there's no benefit to you I don't think there's any reason to do it there's if there's no purpose to it other than it's helpful to you yes but I appreciate your own skepticism I'm married to a questioner so I ever I'm very familiar with the strengths of that of that Tennessee hi miss Rubin I'm an overly sentimental hoarder yes probably not an uncommon thing every school assignment every art project from children especially from children of your own children know where I've run into the biggest problem is from handwritten notes I've got every single handwritten note I probably have ever received I've been using storage bins I've been doing things chronologically I've got a system but I'm starting to build a little fort for myself basically a system so is there a way to stop this or at least cut into it somehow yes absolutely this is a really this is one of the biggest challenges I think with in creating outer order which is the sentiment that we attach to things now sometimes when you read advice or suggestions they're kind of like you should get rid of all of this it represents the past you know you should move forward clean and free and these possessions if they aren't they don't matter this is not the common experience of mankind possessions do matter we use them to remind us of the people and places and activities we love we use them to protect our identity into our environment things something that's handwritten feels special it's like I deeply shocked many people when I said that I threw away holiday cards like the next day some people keep holiday cards forever because it's got someone's picture on it you know and like that feels powerful so you've got the problem which is actually not that hard because you're experiencing the downside if you keep everything it becomes meaningless it's its value becomes diluted because you can't enjoy box after box after box they're just there's too much it's overwhelming and therefore it loses all meaning and so the thing to do is to really go through and pick out the things that are very very very important that are truly significant not the not the handwritten notes that were just the perfect tree things but like things that are truly meaningful and and I think what's helpful when you're trying to release all these other things is to say if I have a few things that are truly precious then I will enjoy them I can go through them I can look at them I could frame them on the wall I could make a little book and you could take pictures of the other things if you wanted to have some kind of pimento I'm a huge fan of taking pictures of things that you want to remember but you will actually find that they will be actually much more valuable for the reason of holding your sentiment you can also use this with furniture so like with my grandfather I could have taken when my grandfather died I could have had his roll-top desk I could have had his big chair I could have had his grandfather clock he collected clocks or I could have had his pocket watch because he was an engineer on the Union Pacific Railroad and his pocket watch was very very important so what did I choose chose the pocket watch right because all I needed was a little thing to remind me of my grandfather I really don't need anything but I like to have something but I'll pick the little thing and then this is something that I can really treasure in value because it's little and it's easy and it's supersaturated because all the meaning is there whereas if I had all this stuff I would just feel like oh my gosh what am I gonna do with all this stuff so try to think of it that way like really pull out what's most meaningful because then it will whole it will serve you better in that in it kind of a carrier of emotion for you because I do think that's really important thank you okay so we have time for four more questions for okay I feel like I have to be very consistent in my answering okay all right so mine's a or Tennessee question and I'm a questioner who leans towards upholder okay and I also have a motto that one's an outlier choose a trend threes an issue threes a reason issue okay or problem so as my friends and colleagues have been taken the quiz we're finding that rebels they're people they are rebels but they're finding out when their quiz that they're coming out it's upholder so but then we do a deeper dive and say oh no no you really are a rebel so we're wondering why is our you're experiencing false positives from rebels who come out as our thoughts are they're answering the questions as an ideal self not the real self so just have you come across that this is fascinating and I have to say I have noticed this and it was very puzzling to me as an upholder and I will tell you this no upholder thinks they're a rebel this is a one-way confusion no upholder thinks the rebels in upholder we know they're not the reason that I believe that rebels test is a polder is because they are so authentic to themselves that they are like I am meeting outer and inner expectations because I'm doing exactly what I want to do so they have that kind of that sense of total sort of self-discipline in that kind of the most pure sense it was it's interesting because one very very perceptive rebel said to me because I had said that the motto of the via polder is discipline is my freedom and I cannot tell you how true I feel that that is for me as an upholder and the rebel said but you see for me as a rebel freedom is my discipline and I think there is that connection and I think that's why sometimes rebels do feel that they are upholder I will say that when I talk about the percentages I am not using the two million people who take the quiz online because of selection bias yes questioners if you've been thinking about selection bias I know about selection bias this is a limited group of people who took it in a like a you know took it like in a proper thing where it was balanced and and you know across regions and ethnicities and ages and all that sort of thing so I have noticed that too and I think it's a certain kind of rebel feels upholder II but usually with a little you see that there it's coming from a very different place but it's interesting it's a it's a it's a surprising phenomenon I've noticed it too yes hi I have a question about implementing the techniques in the new book with the strategy of the clean slate gel so I have I've been a stay-at-home mom for several years and I'm starting a new job in two weeks can I congratulations can i implement my plan i have a big list for my clean slate can i implement it before i start the job or do i have to wait oh no no don't wait if you don't want to change happening no no no no no don't wait if you don't want to and also a lot of hipsters that energy or preparation - so you may want to do it as preparation it was very interesting somebody was I spoke to 70 last night who had cancer and she was saying that before she went into treatment she went through a huge clutter clearing thing because she just she wanted to eliminate any kind of distractions or anything and I could see how you could do that as a weight like to prepare for something big and so maybe you said it was like nesting before having a baby that so she felt how the experience felt her her and so maybe you're experiencing something like this - like I want to get everything done ahead of time so if you feel that urge never fight it the right time is always now but I think you're smart to think about the clean slate with a new job because that is such a valuable opportunity it's great that you have a plan because I think the problem with the clean slate is sometimes we don't take advantage of it and then by the time it occurs to us we've kind of blown our chances so good luck with a new job and good luck with all the new habits excellent okay so we have two more okay yes I'm so happy I was wondering if you could help me reconcile or maybe others in the audience I'm a super clutter cleaner at home questioner tips to rebel I don't know if that has anything to do with it and then there's work and it's a disaster it's really usually almost always it's the other way well okay so in all fairness to me I run a pediatric therapy practice and I have 29 staff and thousands of children per day with lots of toys I see everywhere and I don't know if the outer chaos of working with children all day and the toys and the therapy equipment and everything just shut me down if it just becomes total announces where we're brave or have you found others who it sounds like you have but in wait so tell me your tendency again question or tips to write your question or who's have trouble and this clutter what is your role like what I'm in charge of all of it you're in charge of all of it so maybe it should be someone else's job to put away the toys you're the only one who cares then but it sounds like you have the authority to tell someone else to do it I do so can I tell them that Gretchen Rubin tell them Gretchen with the happiness bully says you have to pick up the toys I think I'm the happiness bully so now I can say my mentor happiness bully gave me permission to bully you is that gonna work you might want to frame it slightly there for a she encouraged me to bring us all together to have a better outcome see ya well and it's also like let's think about but yeah yeah yeah i but i yes i do think it sounds like it's not certainly that i'm different in the other places the parameters are different yeah yeah i think so okay good luck good luck last question gold star to you this is more of an inner order good I was wondering how do you mechanically implement your to-do list like do you have a specific app or is it like handwritten or do you have both uh and then also what is your approach to email staying on top of email hmm usually that Garron only comes up when people start talking about photos so what to-do lists I still do hand a hand I keep a like a pad of paper and then every couple days like I recopy everything that's not done I have a philosophy though that every to-do list should start with something that can be done in the next five minutes or that's already been done so I always start with something cross off so I do it that way I find I don't like to type on my phone that much so I don't like to keep them on my phone so I will always trance transfer it as soon as I can into my written pad and but I know that more and more it seems like people are using all these apps that are for to-do lists and they really like it as for email this is something that's really interesting because one thing that I've noticed is that people really do use their email very differently like one thing that a lot of people say to do is don't use your email as it to do lists but I find that's one of the most valuable uses of my email for me is I use it like a running thing or like to say well this person hasn't gotten back to me if I deleted it or did something else so that then I would just have to go retrieve it so I like leaving it there and I just stay on top of it all the time but here's a tip if you're a person like me who wants to send email all the time like I send emails in the middle of the night I send them on the weekends they send them on the holidays I just like want to get it off my plate some people it turns out don't like that so you can use the ladle ivi if you like to send the emails when they're on your mind and then the people only get them when you like at 8:30 on Monday morning because so that you can respect people's leisure time if that comes up I wish I had some fantastic answer for emails but mine is just like to just constantly try to whittle away at it I am NOT a big fan of like stepping away from it I don't feel like that makes me more relaxed or makes me feel it calms meaning in any way I die I get I feel better just like staying on top of it but again I think it's so specific to your work I mean like my phone doesn't ring and a lot of people are very shocked by that because they're like well what if there were an emergency I'm like I don't know they just have never had an emergency and I don't like I don't want to like constantly be like you know paranoid that might that I you know people are constantly jumping that's called first alarm the FAU ex-post alarm thinking that they heard their phone rings so so ever I think we're all so different but the thing to remember it may this is a good thing the end on is these this technology all these all these tools they are goo a great servant but they are a bad master and what we need to do is to really say what do I want my notifications to look like and how many apps do I want on my phone and how do I want to manage my email and so to take control of it rather than just defaulting and whatever the automatic settings are or whatever you just do without thinking because a lot of times we can set things up in a way that suits us better but we have to step back and think about it a little bit because it is it is very overwhelming and can really lead to a lot of mental clutter so thank you so much it's been so much fun to talk you you

Channel: Politics and Prose

Views: 16,776

Rating: 4.9050846 out of 5

Keywords: Gretchen Rubin, Gretchen Rubin Outer Order Inner Calm, Gretchen Ruben, Outer Order Inner Calm, Gretchin Rubin books, Gretchen Rubin book tour, happier Gretchen Rubin, Gretchen Rubin Four Tendencies, Gretchin Rubin, Gretchen Rubin clutter, Gretchen Rubin 4 tendencies, gretchin rubin happiness project, Politics and Prose, Gretchen Rubin better than before, clutter, clutter cleaning, spring cleaning, self-help, Gretchen Rubin habits, Gretchen Rubin obliger, Gretchen Rubin rebel

Id: L72d6oHcSAA

Length: 56min 53sec (3413 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 16 2019