Good vs Bad FANTASY Dialogue (Writing Advice)

bad dialogue will destroy your story that's right Peter I am you and you're me and this is a God so in this video I'll be analyzing good and bad fantasy dialogue from Lord of the Rings Aragon the rings of power and a bunch of other fantasy stories all to help you write better dialogue in your fantasy novel and I'll also be joined by some special guests to help with this analysis later in the video so make sure you stick around for that to begin with what defines bad fantasy dialogue I think there's six key markers of bad fantasy dialogue and the first one is that it is on the nose as Robin Rustin and William Downs say when a character states exactly what he wants it's called on the nose dialogue there is no hidden meaning behind the words no secret want because everything is spelled out but most interesting people and certainly most interesting characters don't do this number two bad dialogue has repeated beats you want to avoid repeating the same statements or emotions instead each line of dialogue should aim to move your story forward number three the as you know setup when two characters explain main things to each other that both of them already know it feels fake and artificial number four bad dialogue uses convoluted language sometimes in our efforts to produce memorable dialogue us writers can get carried away with complicated phrasing and extravagant word choice and this can again produce a fake feeling that Yanks readers out of your fantasy world number five bad dialogue uses contrived setups this occurs when you make one character say something purely to give another character an opportunity to respond with this Zinger or this one liner or some cool turn of phrase that you developed now this can be done well but oftentimes it creates a certain shattering of the reader's suspension of disbelief because it reminds them of the constructed and artificial nature of your story and then lastly number six bad fantasy dialogue uses info dumping particularly when writing fantasy novels dialogue is a very tempting tool that you might want to reach for when it comes to describing your world your magic your politics your setting your history and all these other unique elements that you have created for your story now of course this can work but when over relied upon and used for the benefit of your reader rather than as a natural expression of what your characters would actually say to one another in that situation it will again pull readers out of your story okay so those are some traits of bad fantasy dialogue let's take a look at some traits of good fantasy dialogue and then we'll get to analyzing a few different fantasy scenes to see this in action number one good fantasy dialogue progresses a lot dialogue is verbal action it is a tool characters use to get what they want so as a fantasy writer you should always be thinking about how each line of dialogue moves the story forward deepens your characters and enriches your themes number two great fantasy dialogue uses subtext as Robert McKee says great dialogue operates on three levels number one the said of those ideas and emotions a character chooses to express to others number two the unsaid of those thoughts and feelings a character expresses in an inner voice but only to himself and then lastly number three the unsayable of those subconscious urges and desires a character cannot express in words even to himself because they are mute and Beyond awareness so the said is text and then the unsaid and the unsayable are subtext number three good fantasy dialogue builds character personality and uniqueness your dialogue should be so personalized to each character that you could just take a random line of dialogue from anywhere in your book strip it of the dialogue tag show it to your reader and the reader should know which character is speaking when you can do that it means you have achieved a good level of uniqueness with your dialogues number four great fantasy dialogue conveys information and World building in a natural seeming way notice that I say natural seeming because good dialogue is not realistic realistic dialogue is filled with ums and R's and pauses and stutters and trailed off sentences and random Segways and a ton of messiness you don't actually want that in your story instead you want something that feels like it could come from reality while avoiding all the pitfalls of real dialogue and then lastly number five good dialogue writers recognize that dialogue is almost a last resort of course there's not a hard and fast rule but dialogue shouldn't always be the first tool you reach for when it comes to conveying emotion information and characterization if you can make readers understand that your character is afraid through description or through symbolism or through imagery or through sort of immersing us within their internal state with the tone that you're using to describe the world around them that is always going to be more impactful than just having a character say I am scared Pixar calls this the two plus two rule essentially the idea here is that you don't want to tell characters that two plus two equals four you want to just give them two plus two and have them work out for themselves that it equals four when you do that when you make them actually interpret the information you're giving them it produces a much deeper connection with your story so so those are a few signs of good versus bad fantasy dialogue in a moment we're going to start applying this framework by analyzing some fantasy scenes but first I thought it would be interesting if I asked a few of my story coaching clients what they consider to be good dialogue it needs to sound natural and it needs to move the story forward and it kind of organically I like to be 80 more active than passive and then also 80 more uh concrete than really abstract and what I really try to focus on is not saying things not having my characters say things that the reader already knows anything that draws you into the story uh we're a bad law bad dialogue is anything that takes you out of it now let's analyze the opening scene from the rings of power and as we go through the scene think about all the principles we've just discussed when it comes to what defines good versus bad dialogue do you know why floats and a stone cannot cause the stone sees only downward the darkness of the water is vast irresistible the ship feels the darkness as well striving Moment by moment to master her pull her under but the ship has a secret for unlike the stone her gaze is not downward but up fixed upon the light that guides her Whispering of grander things than Darkness ever knew I was there I think it was too long uh the brother uh pontificates a little too much and repeats himself quite frequently I agree I feel like if it was 80 shorter it could actually be good something else should be happening outside like them just sitting in a field is so boring that would be an instant way to improve this as if they were actually doing something a bit more Dynamic than just sitting in a field it is stretching for this like sort of grand Mythic feeling with all these allusions to like light and Shadow Of Darkness but at this point in the story we haven't really seen anything that justifies talking at that scale all that really happened before this scene is that this young girl like had her friends throw a stone at her little paper boat that was floating down the river and it sunk and she sat and that can definitely lead to an interesting character building moment between her and an older brother but it just doesn't feel like it justifies the grandiosity that they're going for here yeah I completely agree it feels like something that they're talking about just for the viewer to hear it doesn't feel like a conversation that would naturally occur our next scene is from The Chronicles of Narnia in this scene admin is a regular boy from our world who stumbles into the fairy tale world of Narnia and how Edmund did you come to enter my Dominion I'm not sure oh I was just following my sister your sister how many Are you full Lucy's the only one that's been here before Edmond how about something not to drink yes please your majesty did you do that I can make anything you like you made me taller anything you'd like to eat Edmond I would very much like to meet the rest of your family warm they're nothing special oh I'm sure they're not nearly as delightful As You Are [Music] but you see Edmond I have no children of my own and you are exactly the sort of boy who I could see one day becoming Prince of Narnia of course you'd have to bring a family uh do you mean [Laughter] Peter would be king too no no but a king needs servants they're short senses and they go back and forth right it's not just one character sitting there talking endlessly as hat we saw in the first scene which can be kind of boring it sounds organic it sounds natural and it also moved the story forward right it's the multifaceted nature of this thing right because it is seamlessly blending like World building it's establishing the white which is Magic and her power it's also establishing you know Edmund's character flaws and his resentment towards his siblings there's also all the manipulation that the White Queen is doing and you get a sense that she's kind of like this quite formidable adversary it's like blending three or four or even five different aspects of story and sort of seamlessly weaving them into one absolutely so yeah so we covered everything right World building magic introduction uh character building and then also we built up our our villain a little bit next let's look at the ending scene from Aragon you lost those who were dear to you paid a great price for your courage did you know the people of the garden already tell stories about you the legend of Aragon the great shadeslayer spreads throughout alligator you know how Legends go people believe just about anything these days when will I see you again time goes quickly only yesterday you were a farm boy today you are a hero tomorrow they see us together again what'd you think ah well uh it gives me a lot of confidence in myself as a writer you know if if that film got green lighted with that draft of the screenplay than you know anyone can make it it was uh just so on the nose let's say all these like subconscious things out loud because you know people do that all the emotion and the hidden meaning is all on the surface here as you say there's nothing to discover there's nothing to uncover or to work out as a reader and that's why it feels so wooden and just on the nose they're would be so much more strength to this if all of those phrases around like oh you're a hero or you've come a long way from being a farm boy there is an interesting way to get that across but if you're directly stating it on the surface of the dialogue it's probably not going to work like that's stuff that you need to have them talking about something else and then deep down beneath the surface they're actually talking about the fact that Aragon feels worried about what's next or that he can't believe everything that's happened to him on his journey so far or that you know she is trying to tell him that you are actually worthy of the stories people are telling about you but the fact that it's just all out on the surface and there's no headed meaning makes for a green scene I think most good dialogue is invisible where you just like don't notice that they're even talking you're just focusing on on the relationships between the characters or what's about to happen next because it's supposed to flow organically because you're just watching people interact it's a good approach to consider dialogue as the web of Last Resort where it's like the only time when you want to use dialogue to convey character emotion for example is when it's not clear within the description or within the internal feelings you're describing um or just within the subtext of the story itself and as soon as you are relying on dialogue to get key things across it does produce that quality you're talking about where yeah it feels like it's now drawing attention to itself and that's why it's so important as well to be reading your dialogue out loud and just to be thinking about is this how people would actually speak in this situation or does it feel convoluted does it sound like I'm trying to be too clever for our last scene we're going to analyze Aragon's speech before the battle of the black gate which is one of my all-time favorite fantasy moments as we lead into this I thought I'd first asked Michael and Lewis about the best dialogue lessons they've learned from working with me Michael what's been the most useful dialogue lesson you've learned from the story coaching program you help me see how the reader perceives my characters and you also help me see how my other characters perceive each other and once I got a better understanding of their goals and their ghosts I suppose the the dialogue just blowed from there every uh line of dialogue now I feel helps push the story forward in some way the biggest lesson it for me has been making my dialogue more concise I tend to repeat have my characters repeat themselves too much and I didn't notice and so you really helped point that out and it's something that I'm really conscious about now and then back to like we just discussed adding uh you know dialogue beats or action beats and with your sentences to actually create more dialogue without using uh character speaking inside my story coaching program we looked at all the different aspects of fantasy storytelling whether that's dialogue well building what characterization theme all the other aspects that go into crafting a successful story that's what we cover in the story crunching program in the story coaching program I draw from my experience all publishing three fantasy books and a best-selling video game and I'll be reading through your story giving you targeted tailored feedback to help you elevate your fantasy storytelling to the next level you can apply using the link in the description down below or they go into jedhern.com forward slash coaching I will warn you the last time I mentioned this program in one of my YouTube videos I think I've got about 20 or 30 applicants within the space of two days and I only have the capacity to take on three new clients with this program you're getting a lot of my personal time and attention so I only work with a very small number of people at once so really try to put a lot of effort into crafting the best application that you possibly can and hopefully we'll be working together at some point in the future our next scene is Aragon speech at the Battle of the black gate in Lord of the Rings my brother I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me a day may come when the courage of men fails when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of Fellowship but it is not this day an hour of wars and shut its Shields when the age of men comes crashing down but it is not this day this day we fight by all that you hold dear on this scooter I bet you stand Man of the West I just finished the speech awesome what'd you think let's just try and not cry man it's just it's so good oh man it's I got chills just watching it again it's it's too good I love the way he starts the speech talking about himself and how he he feels the fear and then he talks about his men and then he expands to the age of men it's something that the reader or The Watcher in this case can feel in themselves when they see or hear those words everybody feels some sort of fear so I think it's just it's it's perfect yeah I think he does a really good job of elevating this confrontation to this very Mythic and Grand level this is a battle for the fight for the very soul of Middle Earth and it's a fight to see whether us like weak kind of mortal men have the courage to face this ever-present darkness and despite that Darkness find a degree of hope it does a really great job of just infusing the story with this sense of Epic Grandeur which I think is something that is a very unique uh property and skill that Epic Fantasy can do because you're you are able to genuinely have the stakes be this high and when you ground that within a world that has you know these really flawed complicated characters that you can connect to it just creates like this amazing kind of symbiosis between it because you've got this character you can relate to and then the stakes they're facing could not be higher and that's almost like the perfect combination when you can make it work couldn't agree more for Frodo [Music]

Channel: Jed Herne

Views: 510,791

Keywords: writing, writing advice, writing craft, story, fantasy, author, jed herne, authortube, booktube, wizards warriors words, self-publish, indie, publishing

Id: n0L6JPQm0G0

Length: 17min 44sec (1064 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 21 2023