Good Game Design - Undertale: Real Morality

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I think the only big problem with this kind of design is that it relies on the player wanting to do a second playthrough, but a lot of people just beat a game once and move on. That's why so much of the fanbase obnoxiously shouts all the time DON'T KILL ANYONE, because they want people to experience that incredible true pacifist ending without being put off by having to replay 6 hours of largely the same content.

It's definitely a Catch-22 though. If you didn't have to replay the whole game without killing everyone or if the game made it even more glaringly obvious that you shouldn't kill then the whole intent and message of the game would be compromised. I think Toby Fox did the best he could under the circumstances.

👍︎︎ 123 👤︎︎ u/[deleted] 📅︎︎ Oct 25 2015 đź—«︎ replies

I had a very similar feeling too. My neutral run was fun and funny, but I felt pretty hollow (even though the last boss was so incredible and memorable). I instantly went back in for a pacifist run and just loved it so much. The game has a great metaphor for life - the people that want to challenge you the most can end up becoming your closest friends and even mentors. I love the fact that the bosses are "people" too, with friends, family, or troubles of their own...and they simply stand in your way to halt the progress of evil if thats your purpose in life.

👍︎︎ 24 👤︎︎ u/Neoncloudff 📅︎︎ Oct 25 2015 đź—«︎ replies

I have to disagree with his definition of 'real morality.' The fact that there is a 'correct' choice for every encounter, basically removes all aspects of realness, at least to me.

While Witcher 3 may not remember what players didn't actively saved, it provided actually interesting moral choices and many of those choices impact the game world permanently.

I really liked Undertale, but morality cliche (good or bad, no shades of grey and good, bad, and shit ending) was the weakest part of Undertale in my opinion.

👍︎︎ 58 👤︎︎ u/_MadHatter 📅︎︎ Oct 25 2015 đź—«︎ replies

A two-pronged morality system like Mass Effect's, where both choices are always (arguably) justified and both usually leave you feeling satisfied, is basically like a pair of amusement park rides. You just get on one and then get on the other, and you have fun both times.

I think a meaningful morality system needs to have a right and a wrong choice. One that makes you feel bad and one that makes you feel good. I reject the common criticism of devs who "force" you into a certain choice by painting that choice as the "correct" one. Especially if the "correct" path is correct because of basic principles of human morality.

A path where you do not kill anyone is, by default, the "correct" one. If you think otherwise, aren't you a person who thinks that killing is OK if refusing to kill would be mildly inconvenient?

I think it's fine, and even desirable, if a game forces you to think about real life morality while you mull over the consequences of your in-game decisions.

👍︎︎ 16 👤︎︎ u/notbob- 📅︎︎ Oct 25 2015 đź—«︎ replies

Am I the only one that most enjoyed the genocide playthrough? Felt the most unique...

👍︎︎ 6 👤︎︎ u/AngriestGamerNA 📅︎︎ Oct 26 2015 đź—«︎ replies

Hey thanks for linking this video. This guy is putting out great content, definitely worth subscribing.

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/nathan12343 📅︎︎ Oct 26 2015 đź—«︎ replies

This "Real Morality" would be interesting to see if it was melded with more "regular" kind of RPGs. I'm not sure if that is possible, but Undertale is a pretty niche kind of RPG...

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/The_Whole_World 📅︎︎ Oct 26 2015 đź—«︎ replies
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Hey guys, before we start today’s episode, I just wanted to give a quick spoiler warning for the game Undertale. We’re going to be talking about really heavy spoilers, and normally I’m not too concerned about this kind of thing, but Undertale is a game that’s best played without knowing anything beforehand, and is an experience I highly recommend. So if you haven’t played it yet and want to, I’d suggest beating it before watching this video. Or if you don’t care, continue. Thanks! Morality systems in games are fascinating to me. Most of the time this consists of either playing good or evil in order to get a specific ending, which increases replayability. The thing is, it’s often fluid morality. Meaning, you can change how good or bad you are by earning a certain amount of good or bad points. Don’t want to be evil anymore? Just donate money to charity. Want to become Satan himself? Well that’s pretty easy…But what happens when a game causes your moral actions to not only feel more genuine, but permanent? On today’s episode of Good Game Design, we’ll look at the “real morality” principle. Let’s talk about Undertale. This game seemed to come out of nowhere, but quickly jumped onto everyone’s radar – and for good reason. I’d describe it as an compelling narrative disguised as an RPG, and by that I mean it takes all the traditional RPG elements and flips them on their head. Instead of staying the night at an inn to refill your health, the innkeeper just gives you your money back because you only spent a couple minutes up there. Or the fact that you can’t sell things to shops because why would a shopkeeper want your useless junk? They’re trying to make a profit here! The gameplay itself isn’t that impressive, but that’s because Undertale is more focused on a charming story and breaking the fourth wall. The game will often address the player directly, or talk about functions within the game, such as saving, which the characters normally should have no idea about. This makes the player feel more connected to the story and characters, because it’s like you’re actually in the game. Undertale has a TON of humor, from skeletons named Sans and Papyrus, named after their dialogue fonts, to a robot singing Romeo and Juliet style about how he’s going to kill you. Even the combat system is completely different than anything I’ve seen. It’s still turn based, but instead of taking damage every enemy attack, you control your heart to avoid obstacles coming at you, almost like a bullet hell minigame. And the number of objects increases depending on how many enemies you’re fighting. It will even switch up the battles occasionally, so you can block projectiles with a shield or move around on a music staff like a rhythm game. Not to mention that actually attacking the enemies at all is optional. There’s a lot that’s unique about Undertale, but the most important part to me, was the morality system. Basically, there’s 3 main endings you can achieve in this game: Pacifist, where you don’t kill anyone at all; Genocide, where you kill everything; and Neutral, where you’re somewhere in between, though there’s several different endings under each of those categories. The first time I played, I got one of the neutral endings. I just killed everything I came across, but this is different from the genocide ending – we’ll get to that in a minute. I did this because that’s just how I’ve always played RPG’s – you have to kill the bosses and enemies you face, right? I mean sure, the game told me that you can talk to them, or do different actions, but I basically stuck to what I knew, because it was the comfortable solution. But what I noticed almost immediately is how much this game makes you feel bad for killing things. From Toriel’s heart shattering into a million to pieces, to Muffet’s little baby spider laying a flower on her grave, to Undyne melting away as she tries to cling to life. It made me rethink every action I was doing, and if it really was the right decision at all. This especially became apparent near the end when Sans explains to me that my experience points and levels I’ve gained from all this killing actually stands for Execution Points and Level of Violence. He says that I act like I knew what the outcome would be before it even happened, reinforcing the idea that Undertale makes you think outside the box as you can’t rely on other game experiences here. Maybe they were right all along and I don’t have to kill. In fact, the game’s tagline is “The RPG where no one has to die”. So, as I’m fighting the final boss, I decide to have a change of heart and spare him, only to find out it’s too late and Flowey, one of the creepiest characters in the game kills him for me. My ending was not very satisfying. Since I killed all major bosses, no one took the throne after King Asgore died, and everyone’s just wandering around in darkness. Even the journey itself felt lonely and unhappy. I wanted to replay and get a better ending. So the next time I played, I tried to stick to what the game challenges you to do, and not kill a single soul. Toriel is the first major boss of the game, and mainly a tutorial on how the main mechanics work. She can’t kill you, once you reach 2 health, her fire attack won’t touch you, so this gives you an opportunity to mess around with the different actions and see what works. To save Toriel’s life, you have to Spare her nearly 20 times! Most people wouldn’t think to experiment this far, but since I’ve already killed her once, I was filled with determination. This moment also teaches you that you might have to go to crazy extents to save some of these characters in this game. So I continued this path, finding creative ways to spare everyone, even the common enemies. Some of the solutions were really entertaining, like Aaron flexing too hard and just floating away, or petting this dog into submission so he won’t fight anymore. In addition to not killing anything, to get the true pacifist ending, you have to date 3 of the main characters. Yes, you can actually date them, even after they tried to kill you. These turned into hilarious events that just let the creativity of Undertale shine. During this playthrough I really started to appreciate this game – they put a lot of thought into how you can interact with every character, not just in dialogue but battles as well. I had a blast playing through this second time. It’s at this point that I realized the main menu isn’t supposed to be empty all the time, but instead shows the characters you saved, and plays a more upbeat tune as well once you’ve done so. This path also reveals a lot more about Undertale’s story. You discover more hidden secrets and experience one of the biggest plot twists of the game - Flowey is actually the king’s son all along, transformed and heartless after losing his best friend. He tries to kill you, but you can even save him as well, and it felt good doing so! The ending was very gratifying – everyone made it to the surface together and lives happily ever after. You even get a beautiful credit sequence where it shows you all the characters, like at the end of a play. I love when games do this, it reminds me of Donkey Kong Country or Super Mario World. Finally, I wanted to see everything this game had to offer – I wanted to experience the genocide ending. I didn’t think this would be much different from my first playthrough, since I killed almost everything, but boy was I wrong. To trigger the start of a genocide run, you need to murder every enemy in the Ruins – and I mean every enemy. You have to keep walking around killing until it says that no one else came. The music will get very ominous and creepy, and you’ll even kill Toriel in one hit. She exclaims that she wasn’t trying to protect you from the world, but protecting the world from you. You become a truly evil monster. Even Sans comments on how you aren’t human, but should pretend to be one to make Papyrus happy. In this path, you team up with Flowey, that evil flower who killed Asgore in the first playthrough. You try to decimate entire locations, making sure of it by checking how many monsters remain in each area at your save points. Flowey will help you progress faster by using his vines to hold down buttons, or make sure puzzles are already solved. This is the fastest route, but it is by far the darkest. You don’t have time for any of the fun and silliness of previous runs, you have a singular goal in mind. Instead of being shocked when you encounter an enemy, you smile. You will destroy anything standing in your way, even innocent children. I thought I felt bad in my first playthrough, but this was just another level of villainy. And you know what? It was depressing! All towns and villages are empty, there’s no one to help you, and you truly feel alone. You even turn on Flowey, and kill the only thing helping you on your journey. The worst part is that Sans warned me that I was only doing this because I COULD – just to see all the endings, not because I wanted to. And that’s exactly right, it’s like he was reading my mind. This route probably has the most profound final boss, but also the least satisfying ending. Your save file gets destroyed, leaving just an empty black screen in its wake, even if you reload the game. Eventually, you are given the option to reset, but only if you sell your soul. What’s even more compelling about these multiple playthroughs, is that your past actions stay with you in future experiences. Even if you reset the save file, the game remembers what you did previously. This leads to some interesting conversations, like Sans saying I turned around early, like I had been here before, or contemplating telling Toriel that I’ve already killed her once, but then deciding that would be creepy. But it also can have extreme ramifications, like once you sell your soul, you can’t have a true pacifist ending, because you’re not really good after all. This blew my mind, and really showed that your actions have permanence, even if you think you can just restart and no one will remember a thing - Just like your actions in real life would have a permanent effect. In fact, this game had more of a connection to real life than any other game I’ve played. Even in the feelings I had while carrying out my actions felt real and tangible. I felt terrible when I killed, and it led to a lonelier, depressing experience. The first time I played I didn’t enjoy the game very much. I didn’t get the appeal everyone was talking about, but I was feeling that way because of how I played. My perceived lack of fun was a reflection of my actions in the game. It’s not fun when you kill people, it’s dark and weighing. But then, when I played without killing anyone, I had the time of my life! It was really enjoyable, and my happiest moments were from the pacifist run. It’s like there’s a metagame above the actual gameplay. But even from a game design perspective, this is incredibly executed. Most people are going to have a neutral playthrough their first time, because even if they know they don’t have to kill anyone, they might not realize what you have to do with Toriel, and just resort to killing her, which will automatically lead to a neutral ending, no matter who you save. So then if you play again, really trying out every possibility now that you know what’s going to happen, you really can experience a pacifist ending, and the game will reveal a little more about the story to you as a result. Then, if you want to go for a genocide run, it takes a long time to trigger it. You have to grind out the Ruins for quite awhile, and most people wouldn’t do this by accident. You know what you’re trying to do, and the game reinforces these feelings, by telling you you’re evil from the very start. And this being your last run seems intended, because of all the dialogue telling you that you’re just trying to see every possible ending to the game, just because you can. It’s really interesting. I want to conclude by talking about Sans. Sans is most people’s favorite character in the game, with his slapstick humor and likeable character (handshake fart clip). The entire game Sans follows you on your journey, wisecracking and lending a helping hand. At least that’s what I heard, because the first time I played, I never saw Sans until the very end of the game. Since I killed his brother, Papyrus, Sans disappeared until the ending when he revealed that I’ve been a killer this whole time and makes me reflect on my actions. His eyes go black as he asks me why I killed his brother, and tells me to go to hell. My first experience with Sans was really dark and scary. But when I played Pacifist, he was my best friend, always telling jokes, and even taking me out to dinner a few times. But what happens when you do a Genocide run? Sans is the true final boss, trying to stop you. You see, Sans reacts to the actions that you take. Sans is your moral compass. Sans, is the embodiment of good. In this boss fight, he’s not just trying to stop evil, he’s trying to stop you from reaching the point of no return. If he can stop me from finishing the Genocide run, he can stop me from losing my soul. He’s the one that convinced me to spare the King in my first run, and encouraged me to do good. And honestly, this is the coolest part about Undertale. They created a character that you like and care about, and when you disappoint him or make him mad, you feel bad about it. You actually want to make him happy, and keep on his good side, otherwise you’re going to have a bad time. I was concerned about how permanent my actions were and how it would affect the people around me. And that’s true, real, honest morality. You see, Undertale didn’t just make me rethink RPG’s, it made me rethink gaming in general. In other games, I wouldn’t think twice about killing a certain character. In fact, sometimes I would just do it for fun, then reset my save file - no harm, no foul. But now it shed a new light onto that whole concept. What if every character remembered what I did before I restarted? Undertale made every action have weight and forces you to really think about what you’re doing before you carry it out, just like you would in real life. It’s real morality because Toby Fox crafted a system that holds you accountable for every action, making you actually care about the character’s lives and what they think of you. The feelings I had while executing some of these runs were real, even though these were just pixelated creations. When people disappear from certain spots, or have a “I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed” look when you kill them, it cuts deep man! And I’m sincerely impressed that a game made me feel these things. That’s why Undertale has Good Game Design. Thanks for watching. Hey guys I’m snomaN blah blah blah like my face.
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Channel: Snoman Gaming
Views: 965,862
Rating: 4.9051027 out of 5
Keywords: Undertale, Game Design, undertale design, undertale morality, undertale morals, undertale actions, undertale game design, level design, good game design, gaming design, undertale choice, undertale choices, undertale ending, undertale endings, undertale genocide, undertale pacifist, undertale neutral, undertale genocide ending, undertale sans, undertale pacifist ending, undertale neutral ending, undertale flowey, undertale story, morality systems, morality, game morality
Id: KkJ8C1MEKLs
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 12min 31sec (751 seconds)
Published: Sat Oct 24 2015
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