Glory, Destruction, Tragedies and Defiant Resilience of Eternal Kashi | Dr. Meenakshi Jain on ACP 71

or was a great Sufi people have started arguing okay yes that he was a great Sufi okay you know was but you know the thing is I mean that's don't tell me this I don't want to remember that yeah but I never saw the movie mercifully okay there is one class of Indians that is like that and there's another class that is going on so now this Temple was destroyed I'm can't tell sorry about that mhamad g General kin abak who later becomes the first Sultan of Delhi yes so in the attack on Kashi the Persian historians who accompany him write that he destroyed 1,000 temples 1,000 temples so this philosophy that Atma and Brahma are one that God is within us this is something that now you know every Indian I think yes has become so imbued with this philosophy Dr minaki jeni welcome back to the podcast always a pleasure to have you such a delight to be here and before you proceed I have to thank you for such a powerful platform that you have created and it has given me access to so many viewers and readers and I also have to thank the awesome audience absolutely the the way they welcomed the podcast their suggestions even their criticisms had so much for me to think about so I have to be really thankful to them and to you I am uh I'm most you most welcome I think the audience watches because it is luminar is Like You Who Come on the podcast so I also very kind of you so we're going to discuss uh your book vishwanath Rises and Rises I still haven't had the pleasure of reading it so could you please explain what it is about we'll start with what the book is about and then we can delve into the deeper issues yeah uh so actually uh I wrote the book by accident to be very Frank M uh I had written two books on aodha yes followed by one book on MAA mhm then so many people you know they would come to me and say the vhp and the Hindus asked for only three temples you've written only two books so please don't be so unfair to Kashi okay so I thought that there's Merit in this argument and I started working on Kashi okay uh my book was ready uh by uh winter last year okay then suddenly something unexpected happened mhm the Varanasi High Court gave the archaological Survey of India permission to investigate at the site of Gan vapi rather unexpected totally unexpected consider the fact that you know in aoda it had been dragging on and on and on so long yeah and uh the excavations were done in 2007 on the orders of the alabad high court and the alad high court judgment came in 2010 the Supreme Court verdict in 2019 so it was such a long thing yes so uh then I thought oh this is totally I think maybe vishan is blessing me so I said I must wait uh for the report okay for the excavations the excavations okay and L behold the moment the excavations were over the court said release the report incredible never seen before never seen before so I said you know this is a sign that I did the right thing I took up Kashi did not abandon it and uh you know vishwanath has blessed the report has come it has been made public so the last chapter is on this ASI report okay so you Incorporated that yes naturally because the book was ready 3 four months before that yes so I said it makes no sense to so it's absolutely up to date M now you asked I mean I've told you why I wrote the book because of the historic circumstances but what is it that struck me most about uh Kashi when I wrote the book MH you know we have our mind and and our hearts if I can put it that way have been so overwhelmed MH by the tragic circumstances that started in the 10th 11th century yes so know that has occupied our minds and Consciousness and we have I think to a man and woman almost forgotten that there is a glorious Ki thousands of years before that yes which we also have to relate relate to and reclaim MH see the point is that the Hindu civilizational recovery I mean it has picked up pace MH in the recent years yes but there's still a long way to go indeed and I realized this because you know like many other Hindus uh I was only worried about the attacks that began in the 11th century and how they totally devastated Kashi come to that little later okay but I then recalled in the course of my research that Kashi what was the importance of Kashi in the Hindu spiritual philosophical Journey M and that is I mean this was there at the back of my mind but you know you don't really come to grips with it until you start writing it okay see uh the earliest uh texts uh whether you can call them spiritual or whatever MH they were the vas yes and the setting of The VES are commonly accepted by Scholars as Northwestern India and Punjab yes so the Wes don't show much uh awareness of the land beyond that yes eastwards and what was yes and what was the highlight of the VDS it was yagas yes you sacrifice so you create those elaborate yagas uh which are very meticulously documented you know how it has to be created yes and then you offer sacrifice and Agni carries your offering to the DTs above yes so it was very very meticulous uh but the problem with the Vic yagas was that you know it could be practiced only by a few because it was such elaborate rituals yes and uh a large ction of the populace uh was kept outside this mhm it was not deliberate but it just so happened yeah so this was the first step in the Hindu civilizational Journey yes now a Quantum Leap takes place when we shift the uh location to Eastern India and principally Kashi and vidha mhm vid ah we all know was the land famous for King janak mhm father of SAA yes Kashi and vidha occupied a very very important place because they were the harbingers of a new leap in the civilizational journey mhm so as the rig vades or the vas were concerned with yagya yeah in Kashi and vidha we have Kings Kings articulating a new philosophy and what is that philosophy that philosophy that the Kings enunciated has now over the millenia percolated to each and every inhabitant of this land MH and that is Atma and Brahma a one God is within us you know yes so this philosophy that yes this thead upnishad the chandad these were among the upnishads that articulated this now according to the material that we find in the upnishads the Kings janak and and the king of Kashi they are the ones who are initiating this dialogue and they call people to their courts and many people come and there you know they say to the kings that we did not know this knowledge and we want to learn this knowledge from you mhm so the Kings say that actually it is not the job of Kings to educate brahans the brahans are coming to the court and the kings are shatas but they say we will enunciate you in this new philosophy okay so this philosophy that Atma and Brahma are one that God is within us m this is something that now you know every Indian I think yes has become so imbued with this philosophy so this is such a you know now the Vic yagas they are uh you know a part of the home rituals that one does there are no elaborate Yas mostly anymore yes anymore so those Vic yagas have actually become small rituals that we PR practice at home but what was enunciated in Kashi and vidha is what has become the abiding landmark and feature of Indian philosophy spiritual journey and this is something that we have all forgotten because what happened afterwards was so traumatic yes now my argument is that when we talk about reclaiming Kashi yes our Reclamation should not stop at 1,000 ad okay that is when the Turkish invasions began yeah we have to go much much beyond that and capture and reclaim the Grandeur yes the 11th century was a period of dimin yes and destruction indeed and uh it it traumatized us but the Millennia before that was a tremendous period of Glory learning experimentation debates free Society yes and you know we have to uh try to get recapture That Glory rather than I'm not saying that we have not to reclaim what happened 1,000 years ago but I'm saying to confine ourselves to that is a partial Reclamation of a grand Heritage indeed yes so this is the first uh part of my book okay and uh then you know uh Kashi is so totally associated with shiv yes so you know uh how does shi come to Kashi okay so I've narrated those stories that you know uh his wife Parvati huh uh her mother says that you know I'm not very happy with the person you have married yes and nor am I happy with the place where he lives M so Parvati says you know let us find something uh more appropriate to my mother's tastes so if I can put it that way so then they come and they see Kashi and uh shiv says that I will never leave Kashi okay so you know uh and the important thing about Indian history uh which I begin to appreciate more and more is that you know myths or mythologies are actually representing or memory uh in membrance of a fact that actually happened yes so uh you know uh we all have this myth that ganga came down yes ganga came down because there was King bhagat he could not perform the last rituals of his ancestors because there was no water MH so appeals to ganga that please descend from they l m because she says if I descend there'll be destruction yes so uh please ask shiv to uh catch me in his locks locks and then the destructive impact will be reduced yes so bhagat requests shiv shiv catches ganga in her in his logs and she comes now uh actually uh you know uh scientists who uh studied the uh geological formations around Kashi they said that at around 7,000 BC okay some uh movement uh of the you know soil or what Earth took place okay and as a result water came okay ganga came ganga was not flowing near Kashi before that I see so you know that movement of Ganga into Kashi which is a fact that has been attested by scientists has been captured so beautifully in this myth in this myth in this it's not a myth but St to be a myth a legend so you know uh people say that Hindus were a historical people oh yeah yeah so I always Marvel at the way they remembered they didn't remember history the way we write it obviously but they remembered history in such a beautiful way that you know everyone could relate to that event it was accessible to the commonest of people to the commonest of people so uh that is uh the second part okay uh then you know when what is the earliest puranic references to what's happening in Kashi to the arrival of shiv in Kashi Etc so the scand puran okay and and you know there are two uh professors abroad they have managed to get the earliest palm leaf manuscript of the scan puran M dated 810 CE in Nepal in Nepal okay so now they have started working on that earliest uh um you know text that is available and they've published part of it so that is also very very fascinating so this is being this work is being being done abroad yes okay uh but uh part of it has already been published I've used uh part of it in my book okay it's a very very fascinating work which has taken into account such a vast array of sources but of course the most important is the palm leaf manuscript which they found in Nepal it's very surprising that many of these original texts M the earliest manuscripts are available in palm leaf in Nepal okay so it shows that there was such a close interaction MH uh between Nepal and India well Nepal is is kind of a new country historically about it was one but it you know it's very interesting to how we have divided we have we see things from today's perspective divided perspective yeah but uh Great India was great India yes so uh that is uh uh then shall I continue the story please do so uh what are the earliest archaological evidence that we have okay because what we have discussed so far is a textual evidence yes all right VES upanishads Etc scan puran Etc uh but as a historian uh one wants to look at the actual hard evidence hard evidence so the hard evidence uh actually it begins by accident okay uh in 1940 I think okay uh the Kashi Railway line had to be expanded okay so workers were employed to dig you know the new track and when they were digging they came across many artifacts okay uh which they found very you know they meant something but they were not sure what they meant M so it was taken to the ancient India history department at bhu Banaras Hindu University and the first preliminary uh study was done and that first preliminary study showed a pillared h wall I mean it is amazing that there was a I mean it was like a temple room you know okay so but uh because it was a preliminary thing further excavations were required and they were carried out in very great detail by uh the bhu department okay so the first uh initial investigation showed that there was a pillared hall over there how deep was this uh I don't know how deep it was okay but uh after that the second excavations showed that okay now what the excavation first of all the excavations took back the Antiquity of Kashi uh you know uh 8,000 BC or something 8,000 BC a pillared hole from 8,000 BC so uh no I don't know whether the pillared hole was there some artifacts but the ant the excavation showed okay the Antiquity of Kashi and uh it showed that you know Kashi was always having a religious Dimension okay always always okay so the first I mean there were three sections three parts of Kashi Sarat okay AKA and barasi okay and all three had a distinct religious orientation okay Sarat we know later on became identified with goam Budd yeah much later yeah much later and uh the other uh two places we find that they were on the rout and they were used by rishes okay going from the himala regions to the middle ganga area I see so you know it's a constant movement of Ries which is why some uh places it is called Rishi patam Rishi patam okay so you know because constant movement of Ries uh so that is uh what we find and uh we uh they they found around 400 seals okay uh you know from that rajput uh that uh rajat Plateau that was the oldest part of Varanasi so in the excavations they found around 400 seals I see uh the seals were from the earliest times till the Gupta period and Beyond okay and they were very fascinating uh because many of the seals had the emblem of Shiva okay you know the bull or the Trident yes and even maheshwar written on it I see so and then there were many which were devoted to Vishnu so they had the pad the chakra shank Etc okay so these uh two were very well represented in Kashi and what was even more interesting was many of the seals were seals of schools okay schools means they were specializing in bran of Vic knowledge I see so every school was specializing in a certain branch of Vic knowledge and that uh seal depicted which branch it stated which branch they were specializing in I see so you know what a glorious City it was yes that you know uh such early finds of rever DS of Hinduism till today and being a center of Vic learning education education yeah and you know the uh the seals depict you know that is so uh the more you explore this early history the more Enchanted you are uh that uh I mean I'm not an abashed admirer of Indian civilization but I don't think there's any harm in being an abashed admirer I'm just saying that as a scholar I feel you know so inspired yes at the continuity yes that uh from such Early Times cultural continuity civilizational continuity cultural and civilizational continu yes and uh then of course you know uh there are uh we have references to various dynasties which are ruling okay over there uhhuh a small small information that we have inscriptions some uh you know like bimar he goes to they devotees of uh Buddha so they are going to meet him you know those are depictions okay depictions of these events of a little later period okay and aad chutu going uh so you know there are because you know a lot of it was depicted on stupas later on uhuh so uh there is a lot of U inscript I mean depiction of these incidents uhhuh in stupas uh inscriptions I think the earliest is uh what is called the Varanasi inscription okay and that is talking about a place for Vishnu M then we have another inscription also of Vishnu uh and to show you the diversity we have an 8th Century long inscription which is talking about uh goddess worship goddess worship so you know I mean it's it's not that uh it was just uh closed to any other group everyone uh was there represented in Val and contributing okay so you have Shiva we have Vishnu we also have goddess worship yeah and much more I'm sure yeah and of course since it was attacked so many times yes a lot of the remains are now kept in the bhat kalab bav okay which is part of bhu okay so it has a fabulous collection of remnants of Kashi I see you know mhm so uh it is really uh absolutely amazing City it wash and apart from the fact that you know it uh attracted foreigners okay right from the beginning MH because uh you know it was recognized by people outside India that somehow it represents the heart of Hinduism okay so uh you know of course we have Yun sang coming yes and then after that uh we have a whole lot of Travelers whom I have discussed in my book and even after the devastations uh foreigners recognize that it is where Hinduism lives and we cannot understand India until we go to Varanasi so the early English men who came okay they go to Kashi MH and it continues right till you know uh Mark Twain came Mark Twain okay yeah mhm so you know and they talk about how it was such a grand civilization and uh Bishop Heber and Bishop sharing they write so movingly that you know when Europe was uh just struggling uh to gain its bearings yeah Kashi was already such a revered old place yes so these you know even uh all kinds of people who come they are cognizant of the uh the Antiquity the Grandeur mhm and the place of Kashi unparalleled with any other City MH so this is broadly uh my early introductions okay now uh shall I please do please do so the real history which concerns and interests all of us yes is what happens now one more thing i' would like to say before I come to the 11th century uh that you know in this period just before the 11th century the political center of North India was kaj kog and uh you know uh whoever controlled kaj was regarded as the master of North India okay so we have a series of battles between for example palas pratiharas rashtra kutas to get the Imperial City of kach MH so this is an important departure okay from where I will continue the story cor that the political center of North India and the most important Imperial City was kaj kaj and then what happens mhm then we have uh the invasions which begin uh so mmud Gabi does not attack his son attacks okay uh so his son attacks but you know uh the Persian historians they documented everything because for them it was a Act of great Glory yes so everything had to be meticulously recorded So they say that you know he came but he could stay in Kashi only for a few hours okay because of the fear that the people will rise okay so they come that sun comes for a few hours loots and then walks away so that was just uh plunder plunder okay but uh when we say plunder we we should not we should be careful to recognize that it was not just case of plunder the religious motivation was always Paramount indeed okay so next uh attack takes place the following year okay that also is minimal okay massive destruction yet but can you imagine M the response of the political leadership of India mhm we have the R of a dynasty the gahad walas okay they had their capital in kaj okay but then they relocate from kaj to Kashi okay because they say that religion is under threat M so they can you imagine the foresight of they did not know what was going to be lying ahead mhm the devastations which followed they had not seen yes but these two attacks made alerted them that things are changing and we have to respond okay so they it's something that is so difficult to you know Rel I mean to accept even now that somebody could be so farsighted uh so they come to Kashi and they issue Charters okay and they say that we are the Protectors of holy cities in Northern India okay mhm you know the worst has yet to come and they've already declared that we are the Protectors of aodha Kashi prag okay so many of those Charters have survived okay and the first king of the gadal dynasty Chandra he goes to aoda mhm and then he comes to Kashi okay and in Kashi he sets up an image of KF okay so this is the new political Elite that is coming into prominence in India in the 11th century okay and this uh Dynasty uh was a very remarkable Dynasty uh I'll take up one or two other kings of this dynasty okay Chandra uh goind Chandra goind Chandra yeah he led from the front M and he also revived you know he went to various temples all those records are there okay and he's also mentioned by the way in the inscription that fell off when babri mjid was demolished the Vishnu Hari inscription okay so that incription mentions that the person who was a feudatory of Goin Chandra okay so you know and uh then uh this Goin Chandra he is remembered it's very difficult to imagine such a ruler existed mhm he levies a tax on his people tush Dand tush Dand okay punishment that you have to pay because we have to defend you from Turks okay so we have heard of jazia being collected by the the yeah the the Invaders occup yeah on the subject population yes and here we have a Hindu king living at taxs on his subject because he says I have to defend you from the T and so we all have to do it together so this is been described as a tax without parallel in Indian history and maybe even in world history I see because you know I mean how many of us know that you know and there is a tendency I think it is a a result of what the British taught us and what the their success uh historians taught us that you know your kings the Hindu kings were you know the most UNF flattery flattering language has been used they were debauched they were uh exploiting their population but actually this whole downgrading of Hindu Kings has to be Revisited if you look at the kings of that period they have very few who were not most enlightened I see most educated most enlightened M and in this I'll just make a slight digression in the medieval period you know what is most surprising is the large number of DH nibs that were written I see now DH nibs means to do with Dharma yes now why and most of the DH nibs were written either by the Kings themselves okay or sponsored by them written by ministers at their Court can you imagine any other country which has a galaxy of rulers of this caliber and you know we uh just accept the colonial interpretation that our rulers were not worth any respect they were absolutely outstanding class so in any case now the question arises just to about those DH deons are they still available somewhere yes now to elaborate your question yeah first of all why was there a need to write DH niban in the medieval period yeah because we are facing so many problems because Dharma is under attack so Dharma is under attack so people have to be reminded of their Dharma so DH okay so you know uh one thing that uh reading history teaches me is to uh do away with all the blinkers indeed yes and and you know look at your past uh with admiration yes I'm not saying blind admiration but it deserves deserves admiration recognize the facts the fact that which country in any in the world sponsored dbands the Kings wrote many of them to say that you know you have to remember your Dharma incredible so it is incredible yes so Goin Chandra levies this tax yes now we were talking about dhbs yes so the first D nib is actually written by a minister in go Ra's qut okay lakmar okay so he writes a DH nib and you know Scholars of the stature of PV Kan and all they have said that it is a remarkable piece of work and it became the model for subsequent writers to follow okay so it became a standard so imagine uh the king is living a tax T his minister is writing a dhb what a glory period must have been indeed and uh of course uh you know his wife Goin chandra's wife she uh sponsored uh Buddhist vihara in Sarat which had uh you know uh suffered damage so that inscription of hers that I am restoring the so you know look at the wives are so enlightened and some people would say that Hinduism and Buddhism have been at odds well take a look at this look at this so the wife is and that inscription has survived now the other thing that is very interesting about the gadala inscriptions is that many of them refer to the Kings defeating hamir hamir hamir is the enemy from out okay so you know the foreign Invader okay so this uh Goin chandra's wife's inscription that has been found in sarna it also says that you know he defeated the Invaders so it is not just a question that you're uh aware of your political responsibilities of protecting your subjects you're aware of your dharmic responsibilities in sponsoring dhbs and you're also conscious that you to document it so so many inscriptions of that period have survived which talk about them defeating the Invaders MH so it's a very very glorious period unfortunately so for about uh for about 100 years uh uh The gales were able to stop the advance okay you know there were other people of course like the pratiharas but uh there was no attack for almost 100 years okay and then the attacks resume under Muhammad Gori Gori yes the the first ones were were the gavids gavits um led by mmud gnavi and the second devastating assaults were by Muhammad Gori okay and that is when the last gadala king is killed okay so that's the end of the dynasty that's the end of the dynasty okay uh by Muhammad Gori okay so that is the end of the Dynasty in the sense they survive in some places as feudal Lords but Grandeur of the Guard wals is over okay now uh you know uh after that M uh what do I say about Kashi uhhuh except that it is a tale of Devastation Devastation and Devastation yet again okay so uh uh the first round of absolutely lethal assaults is led by K abb's General uh sorry Mohammad gor's General kin abuk okay who later becomes the first Sultan of Delhi yes so in the attack on Kashi the Persian historians who accompany him write that he destroyed 1,000 temples 1,000 temples so imagine that that figure should make us visualize what Kashi was what would have looked like yes before this happened yeah so 1,000 temples means that every nook and Corner had temples so uh that happens uh he takes away uh the booty but again I'm emphasizing that uh money was not the motive because if money was the motive if we accept it for a moment then all the wealth had been taken away in the first round of why expend so much energy breaking stuff no apart from that that's another question very valid question but I'm saying if you've taken away all the wealth and as you say destroy the first round it was all taken out yeah yes and the people rebuild those temples again and again yeah so in the rebuil temples there was no wealth indeed because that takes generations to create the wealth and and the rebuilt temples were very modest structures okay they were not the grand structures that were and in many places uh you know the demolished temples their parts were used to rebuild temples reild okay so there was no wealth left in them uh so but it went on getting attacked and attacked and attacked so it's an attack on the culture the religion itself Dharma itself yeah it's an attack on Dharma that is the way you put it and that is exactly what it was okay so uh there is nothing left but uh what is uh absolutely surprising is that you know worship continues somehow the other okay and temples continue to be rebuilt okay I I'll just give examples of uh some temples uh the Bindu madav Temple it was a Vishnu Temple it had been destroyed many times and rebuilt many times again I said as modest structures okay uh but in the time of Akbar uh it was built or let me say rebuilt for the Last Time by a mansabdar of abbar that is Man Singh Man Singh so Man Singh built the Bindu madav Temple it was the grandest temple on the ganga front okay and you know uh uh foreign Travelers like Tavia Bera uh they had come and Tavia has a long long description of the Temple the you know the schools that were attached to it the the you know the sculpture and everything it was very very Grand Temple and he said you know it is at par with jaganath temple because T had gone to all parts of India so this is the temple that was rebuilt by mansingh okay last time it was rebuilt then it was destroyed by the great or Z yes uh but you know uh the image of Bindu mad was taken and hidden in the house of a devote okay so it remained in that house of the devote for a very long time okay and at some point because you know the Hindus had a tendency that they don't want to surrender the site yeah but if the site has been occupied yes by a mosque or idka then they will build as close as possible yes so today if you go to Kashi and you say that you want to see the Bindu madav Temple it's just behind the mosque of or it's a small Gul Lane okay you climb up a building go to the first floor and there is one room that is Bindu mad so a temple that was the grandest temple on the Ganga River Front is now reduced to a small room on the first floor of a building so I haven't been to Varanasi thus far you are you saying there's a mosque where the temple is yes it's still standing there okay so I'll give you some other examples omara okay it was among the largest temples in Kashi okay it occupied an entire hoc an entire hoc M and then it was demolished and that whole area M uh you know Graves it became a graveyard a graveyard a grave and those graves are still there and in the 18th century Rani bhani of Bengal M she built a small Omar Temple it is the size of a G I can say okay just one room mhm and uh the pujari does the worship over there but now you know uh most uh devotees are reluctant to go because it's a site where they Graves and it's a non-hindu population okay so they hardly go there I see so this is the way you know uh a very very important Krishna side Vishnu site uh araund okay and a lifesize image of Vishnu has been found there okay now it's in bhat kala Museum where Krishna is lifting Gohan I see life size so you can imagine what the temple was like and that entire place has again been converted into a graveyard and given the name bakarak so you know see there are religious wars which are there in other countries also I'm sure but this kind of mocking yes you know uh fighting is very different from mocking yes and tend to consciously humiliate yes yes and in the most uh you know in a way that the other person is rendered actually helpless you know if you uh have Graves at the site of a temple then the person who has been grieved is not going to approve those Graves now obviously yes because that doesn't come naturally to Hindus in any case so the graves are there that grand Temple is reduced to one small room and now even the devotees feel scared of going and the temp but uh the thing is that even if a temple is lost five 600 years later somebody will come and build so the memory endures people are aware that this is the the site this Temple was so now uh we should now go to uh Gan bapi all right okay so now uh the first uh uh vishwanath Temple uh was actually destroyed by kin abak okay uh after that uh Queen Ria mhm uh ruled for 4 years yes and you know what a turbulent time she had very much very much the nobles were all the time trying to uh Dethrone her or kill her yes but in those four years she found time M to construct a mosque at the site of the first vishwanath temple okay well great achievement so so that mosque still stands I mean you go to Kashi you will see that mosque so that site was closed okay so obviously the temple could not be rebuilt then because the MOS was not going to be demolished H to reclaim that site that's not a Hindu trait Yes except for one exception for one exception yeah and that also exceptional circumstances so uh this was destroyed by kin abber MH in 1196 or something Queen Razia builds the mosque in the early uh 13th century as a kid I watched a movie about Ria and she was such a nice lady yes now the point is I'm sure there going to be movies made showing that or was a great Sufi people have started arguing okay yes that he was a great Sufi okay so you know was but you know the thing is I mean that's don't tell me this I don't want to remember that yeah but I never saw the movie mercifully okay but I mean there is one class of Indians that is like that and there's another class that is going on so now this Temple was destroyed I can't help enough sorry about that but then the king the Raja of jaur in the 17th century MH he buils a vishwanath temple just behind Ram mosque is the r still there yeah very much it's it's in use okay namas is offered there I see but I'm saying that 5 600 years later okay a king from Rajasthan comes and says that you know that was the site of the first original vishwanath Temple M so I cannot destroy that Temple so I'll build as close as possible okay so and that uh Temple that jessing builds from outside you cannot make out it's a temple okay because that fear that you know uh the rulers get upset at any grander any Grand depiction of Hinduism no any mortis any mores mores is the thing okay yeah so it looks like a mosque from outside oh okay so what I'm just saying is that a site that we had lost we still remembered that we had lost that site and we have to build as close as possible mhm to that site okay so that is again I Marvel at the Hindu sense of History mhm though we were all taught as kids that you know Hindus had no sense of history but the way they remembered their history it is absolutely and they're doing this at a time when political power is not in their hands yes you know so who was ruling the Varanasi at the time when when this this Temple is built so now we no we will just come to this the mugal rule now okay it's mugal rule yeah okay so uh now we leave that Ria mosque okay and jessing has built the mosque okay now according uh so you know uh then what happens is that uh in uh uh no we have Jing has built that mosque now we come to what is happening to vishwanath Temple where is it built where does it go M after Razia has de built that thing yeah J sing has not come into the picture okay not yet so because so now when uh that uh Vish is shifted uh to a temple nearby our meshwar Temple and place is made for him over there okay and then at some point they say let's build a proper Temple okay that Temple is built that is also destroyed it's also destroyed yes so uh there are this you know it goes on and on now uh what happens is that when in the time of Akbar Man Singh builds the Bindu madav Temple yes at that time Naran bhat and toal mhm toal is the revenue Minister and Naran bhat is the now I have to take a stop over here okay uh because uh I'll come back to this you remind me we have to come back to toal andan bhat okay now uh we were discussing the turbulence of that period and how the Hindus still you know survived and they remain true to their tradition okay so what is one of the most remarkable events in the 16th century is that around six maharan Brahman families m they relocate from the dean and they come to Kashi okay now we have to remember that there was no King waiting to welcome them and they must have suffered a lot of hardship to relocate from the dean to come to Kashi yes but they come because they realize that we cannot surrender the spiritual center of Hinduism okay even if we don't have political power even if we have lost the temples but we have to keep Kashi as the center of as one of the important centers of Hindu spiritual Traditions okay so these six families migrate in the medieval period and the contribution of each one of them is absolutely remarkable okay I cannot go into all of them but I will discuss one family that is the BTA family B family and that buta family has a series of very enlightened learning educated members okay uh I will uh concern myself with Naran B whom I just mentioned yes because Naran bhat he wrote a text and uh in which you know first he says that there is no link when you come he telling the worshippers when you come if there's no link what will you do you imagine there's a ling and still do the circum ulation around that Etc yeah now uh Naran B he uh meets toal who was uh a revenue Minister MH and he says that you know we will rebuild the Vish Temple okay so they agree and abbar uh was in that sense uh very different from the or yes yes rest of them we can discuss because Shah and Jang I think we also need to discuss yeah okay so uh but in akbar's time uh in all fairness to him uh the Hindus did get a sense of respite mhm so uh uh Raja mansingh builds the Bindu madav Temple and these people they say we will build the rebuild the vishan Temple now where will they build it okay so uh there was a historian uh as alar M he was a historian of ancient Indian history at Banaras Hindu University okay so he wrote a book uh history of Banaras and he says that when toder and Naran B decided to rebuild the Temple they went to the site where a vishwanath temple stood which had been built in the 13th 14th century okay which was destroyed okay by sikander Loi by sikrai yeah okay so according to Ala a temple site is always a temple site and Naran BH and toor Mal said you know the sentiments of so many people who came and revered at those sites those empty shrines they're calling out for worshippers and we cannot abandon this so we will build our vishwanath Temple at the site of the temple which was destroyed by sikander Loi in the 14th century 15th century okay so like in aodha a 10th Century Temple was destroyed a 12th century Temple was built on that Temple which Baba destroyed yes so it's that same history over here M so uh they rebuil The vishwanath Temple at that site okay so that is another important uh aspect of uh Kashi in the time of Akbar that two important temples are rebuilt Bindu madav and yes uh now uh I want to continue the history of this BTA family of course now this B family first of all look at the contribution to visualize that we have to reconstruct what was that there was no urgency for them to do it there was no need they could have just lived out their life without getting into all this but to plan out the construction to decide the site to execute that plan and to have that Temple constructed was not a small achievement and the ra to raise the money as well yes yes uh then uh the other and contribution of this family is Naran B's great grandson the other members were also very very distinguished but I'm cutting the story short okay and coming to great grandson Gaga bat okay gaga bhut lived in the time of or Z like Naran B lived in the time of uh Akbar Akbar Naran B his grandson lived in the time of or and he was in Kashi okay at that time shivaji was has escaped from uh or's prison yes and was on route to the Deon on his way back so he met according to the story he met Gaga bat okay at Kashi and these people arranged for his safe passage to the dean okay now uh sometime after that gabad uh went to Paton to pray pray you know to offer homage at his uh ma bani Temple okay and then he went to RAR uhhuh and there he met shivaji M and uh you know shivaji had declared that hind swage yes was his objective yes uh so Gaga bat says that you know you have to be coronated as per Vic rights because no coronation of a Hindu king had been done as per Vic rights for God knows how long yes so he says I'll go back prepare consult the ancient text prepare the procedure then he goes back prepares the procedure that procedure for the coronation of a Hindu king as per Vic rituals is available to us it has survived and is available to us even today okay and gagat goes and presides over that coronation and shivaji is chhatrapati shivaji Maharaj Maharaj so that is look at this family and to just to bring you up to date 2024 okay a grandson great grandson I know what from the same lineage from the same lineage M was presiding over the pran pratia of the temple at aodha awesome so you know so you know uh the traditional intelligencia of India actually they just fought with nothing at their disposal they lived a life of frugality of poverty and I mean they kept this Traditions alive it is amazing how they did it and you know we we are so contemptuous you know pit whatever it is we use that they don't know anything they the ones who kept this tradition alive yes I mean what was the incentive for they were not getting paid anything they were risking their lives yes and uh still they they built rebuil temples in the he of Muslim mul power yes and they actually went and coronated shivaji yes what more can you expect what more can you ask for yeah what more can you ask for so it's amazing uh one more thing about this uh traditional intelligen at Kashi M you know the traditional intelligen is very different from those people who became mugal mansabdars M but we we have to remember also that those people who became mugal mansabdars let me say for example the rajputs who became mugal mansabdars it's not that the rajputs who became mugal mansabdars surrendered their traditional Heritage and just became lackes of the mughals no they were very conscious that they have to be true to their her Heritage in the altered circumstances in the altered circumstances where there is no choice actually so they have to run a living or they have to survive otherwise they can be killed by the yeah so you know uh what most of these rajput mansab did that in their courts in their home kingdoms they got histories written about their families okay and those histories were just diametrically opposite to what the mugul darbari were writing okay and so they write that you know uh we are still as powerful as we were in our own kingdom abbar may be powerful in his kingdom but we are and they you know I mean they're very conscious that history will judge us harshly they very conscious of that yes and so they get histor written like Man Singh he gets history written he does not mention that his grandfather gave a daughter in marriage to abbar they don't mention these alliances M so you know they are conscious that it's a difficult so that is for the rajput mansabdar uh we should not uh uh underestimate their uh difficult situation MH and how they tried to preserve what they could in the best of times as best they could as best they could and Jing built rebuilt that Kashi Temple MH the you know the vishan and According to some maps that have survived actually he was trying he got plans made to reconstruct the Gan bapi Temple and was purchasing land okay so you know I mean by and large I would say that Indians if I can use that word I don't know what else word to use uh the way they remained committed dedicated to their civilizational Heritage is something that really deserves to be acknowledged now because you know we have we we have been taught a history where this doesn't count yes now last example that I want to give of a traditional intelligence here at Kashi MH was a person kavind aara okay uh these people were all great Sanskrit Scholars okay so he was a very great Sanskrit scholar and uh he actually uh persuaded Shah Jahan M to stop leving the pilgrimage tax to Hindus who were going to prayag Etc okay now if Akbar had abolished the pilgrimage tax why was he why did this fellow have to ask so it's a question that has to be answered and studied maybe the uh mul officers were not following the Imperial orders okay the emperor is far away he doesn't know whatever I mean that question remains to be answered okay so he goes and he uh persuad Shah Jahan to abolish the pilgrimage tax but this fact that Shah Jan abolish the pilgrimage tax is not mentioned in any persan history okay because so how do we know it so because first of all shahan very conscious that his image as a good Muslim ruler should not be damaged should not be taged yes so now kavind aara when he comes back to Banaras he gets hundreds of felicitation letters from Hindus all over okay that you know what a great thing and we are indebted to and all those letters have been preserved okay so we have those those okay so I mean you know uh for the medieval period I think that we have to remember it was a very contested kind of situation it's not a oneway victory for anyone okay even though the mugul state was so powerful yes to imagine that it had written rough short over everyone is is not at all true and the example of the traditional intelligen yeah which had nothing no money no might yes no office no position yes and uh you know being true to their Heritage in those circumstances and actually emerging victorious in so many situations mhm that is something uh that has to be uh you know remembered with gratitude now to cut the long story short uh this Temple that was built by toal and Naran B we know it was uh destroyed on the orders of orang orang now some people lately have said that it was not destroyed it was not orang but the point is that the fan has been preserved in Mas aliri okay and which is a persan uh thing that was written in time of or Z and it also adds that on completion of the task it was reported to the emperor that it has been done okay so uh there is no dispute about it black and white black and white yeah now uh it seems that at some point uh some Kashi Temple was reconstructed okay because in 1755 that Kashi Temple which was reconstructed is destroyed and the Hindus they go on haral okay so it was destroyed on the orders of some rabid cleric a cleric you can understand uh okay mhmh and then there's a you know haral Etc okay and so that is on record that the Temple of vishwanath was destroyed in 1755 okay okay we don't know much about what happened after that but know that there was a strike and the shopkeepers went onal Etc okay now uh we have to now uh come to there is one incident that takes place in 1809 M it's a bloody conflict uh around Gan vapi okay uh between the Hindu side and the Muslim side let me put it that way okay and it lasts for 3 Days MH only but in those 3 days it was very very intense and uh the Gosai group or the Hindu group uh they almost burned down the Gan bapi the mosque the mosque okay and then what happens is that uh the magistrate the British magistrate uh Mr Watson he says that you know uh this area is a area of tension mhm and the Muslims are attached to this s side to this site the site only because it marks their ascendency over the Hindus over the natives over the natives okay it's not that they have any uh particular attraction to this site only because it marks their ascendency okay and he says that you know this there'll be constant uh trouble and tension so I suggest that you exclude one Community from this area let the Muslims only offer namas inside the mosque and nowhere else okay the rest it should be left open to the Hindus to come and go whatever so that was not uh implemented because the other officials said that you know uh the Muslim the British policies of neutrality so let it we're not going to take Sid from one side or the other okay in any case this is the story uh that stops there now with the uh decline of the mul Empire uh we have two important players coming into the scene can I continue please do okay so uh I will first talk about the maratas okay and then I will talk about the rajas of Banaras okay and then we will stop this over here okay so in the 18th century we find the maratas becoming an ascendant power yes and moving outside the dean and spreading and coming up till north India yes and uh the you see what happened was that uh shivaji's grandson shahu MH had been taken prisoner by or Z who when he was young I think seven or some such thing and or Z had decided that the best way to disarm him or the marata movement is to bring him up as in the mul Camp as a mul Prince mhm so he's deculturation okay and he says that now you know he's so wise for his age he says I will uh the ruling I mean the actual work of administration will be handed over to the pesas so with the pesas a new phase in the marata history commences yes so the marata the uh Balaji vishwanath he comes to Delhi with 16,000 forces force of 16,000 tells the mugul emperor uh release Shah's mother who has been in captivity for 18 years okay and you recognize us as the de facto power in the Deon mhm and you know we will look after you whatever we can do to protect you we will protect you so imagine this community of maratas what a community and what service they have done to this terrible phase of our history how they have stood yes you know and at what cost so in any case the pesas uh you know they ascend becomes uh very they become very powerful and we have uh many of these pesas coming to North India negotiating with the mugul emperor Etc now what is very surprising not surprising what is very remarkable is that the marata the pesas they want to recover Kashi okay Kashi prag all these are coming under the aad nawabs because it's in present day up yes so the aad nawabs are actually Shi okay and the dominant Trend in the mul Court was of sunnis indeed so they were all the time you know at odds at odds and they were many times seeking marata help against the Sunni group yeah uh but you know they not so many of these marata leaders hulkar they said that there's a letter of hulkar which has survived which I uh so he says that you know he has decided he's going to demolish Gan bapi and the brahans in that area are very scared because they they know the amount of power the Muslims still have okay and you know what they can do to them so these negotiations go on then the P then PESA writes to his commanders in Delhi you know if the Abad nabab is not going to give us three for Kashi we tell him we will pay 50 lakhs we'll make him the mul bazer so all these intense negotiations and they show the maratas in such positive light I see you know sitting in the decan M from there hoping to capture these holy cities MH then you know uh the two invasions take place which really them in a way the invasion of NAD sh sure and then the invasion of Ahmed Shah abdali and before the final battle of panipat the maratas actually threw out abdali son from Lor okay so you know when that news reaches the South that abdali son has been thrown out of La there is Diwali celebrity at to kak toak you know so the maratas and you know it's diali and it's such celebrations but unfortunately it ends with the absolute route of the maratas in the third battle of pip pip but again what a douy race yes within a decade of the route at panipat in which they lost an entire generation including the PESA son was also killed so the new breed of or a new generation of maratas comes to the four and they include people like ahila Hulker oh yes indeed and mahaj Sinda mahaj and mahaj Sinda he writes the PESA M that you know now the British are fighting tipu mhm we should not extend any help to them until they commit to us that they will help us to rebuild the Gan at its original site I see so imagine I mean this civilization awareness MH how marked it was across Generations yes so in any case uh that is and three marata Royal ladies visit Kashi in this turbulent period I see you know uh the pesa's mother the pesa's wife the Widow of a young uh member of the family they actually come on TI to Kashi m in these turbulent times so you know how much it meant to them they could have very well sat in their homes yes in Comfort but they undertook that Journey that in that troubled times and the third visit by a royal lady was almost at the time when EMA was had begun his attacks on India okay so you can imagine M so now the last phase that I would like to discuss is that you know uh when the moual empire was in Decline mhm uh then we have the rise of the maharajas of Banaras of Banaras okay the maharajas of Banaras are very different the maratas uhhuh they are a family uh you know they began as uh what you say Revenue collectors okay and then they become de facto rulers okay and this is an area which has a strong mizing influence you know so it was very possible that if it was not for the M maharajas or Banaras Banaras would have been a mizing city as so many other cities of North India M but the maharajas and they actually lose power effective power to the East India Company mhm but they remain uh def fact I mean they remain on their throne but the political part is taken yes but they preside over a tremendous cultural Renaissance okay so you know imagine so many parts of India are reconnecting they never lost touch in any case but in a major positive way they're reconnecting okay so the maharajas of Banaras the cultural Renaissance that Banaras sees as a result of their patronage you know they sponsor ramayan cavas Ram text Ram brge poetry music I see and they most important they start the Ram Leela enactment for 30 days in Banaras okay that tradition starts there they start this tradition okay so uh you know it is I mean I'll only End by saying that uh India has seen such turbulent times such difficult times which have destroyed so many civilizations outside India yes indeed uh India suffered tremendous amount of violence and Devastation yes but through all these dark times people of India they never wavered in their commitment to their civilizational Heritage yes whether you talk about the traditional intelligence here whether you talk about ordinary people who rebuilt those small temples whoever you talk about that is why we say India was always a living civilization yes it may have been crippled which it certainly was yes but it did not allow itself to die yes and crippling crippling crippling it regained its strength slowly but gradually M and today as a proud Hindu as a proud India Indian I bow my head to my ancestors and to the amazing fortitude courage they showed I cannot even imagine any one of us being in that situation yes and acting the way they did so I'd like to uh close this narrative on expressing gratitude for being born in this country inheritor of a great civilization and to my ancestors who never wavered indeed thank you so much so that was the conversation hope you liked it if you enjoyed this please share this on WhatsApp and other media thank you very much and I'll see you soon

Channel: Abhijit Chavda

Views: 124,308

Keywords: Abhijit Chavda, Abhijit Chavda Podcast, Abhijit Chavda Ranveer Allahbadia, Trs abhijit chavda Beerbiceps, abhijit chavda Geopolitics, #AskAbhijit, IRAN ATTACKS ISRAEL StudyIQ IAS, PM Modi’s big pre-poll ANI News, Iran Fail Badly StudyIQ IAS, Poonawalla & Tehseen Unheard story Sushant Sinha, India Needs Jobs Dhruv Rathee, The Real Story of Kashi, Kashi Vishwanath Mandir, Gyanvapi in Varanasi, GYANVAPI : Mandir or Masjid, Kashi Vishwanath temple, abhijit chavda dostcast

Id: Yi9QWEwdowo

Length: 77min 41sec (4661 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 21 2024