Gary Oldman on his career: Nil By Mouth, Tinker, Tailor... and Slow Horses | BFI In conversation

as we know from nil by mouth you actually grew up in southeast London um and then you sort of eventually got a scholarship to the Rose bruford College of drama but when did you first start acting and did you act at school did you no there was never any I never did any any of that at school um I love Cinema I love movies first film I saw on the big screen was A Hard Day's Night and my sister Jackie took me and I would have been five six um always loved the cinema and then one night I was uh living still in south of London with my with my mum and uh a preview came on the TV and it was the Raging Moon starring Malcolm McDowell and it was like the uh the lights got brighter in in the room it I it it was something about Malcolm um and I remember I sit in my mum um oh this this film coming on and uh it looks really interesting and we should watch this after after the news um but that that it was it was that that put the sort of I you know there's a there's a story that John Lennon tells where he says uh he went to the cinema to see um Elvis and there were all these young girls lining up you know around the block and every time Elvis came up on the screen you know that they would scream and what have you and Glennon sat there and he thought that's a good job yeah I'd like I'd like that job I'd like to do that and it was it was sort of much the same looking at Malcolm in that film and it was a bride Forbes but I don't know if it holds up today but um I remember thinking that I want to do I want to do that and it was as as crazy as that it was it was like it it was instantaneous and and what I mean apart from the fact that we might have girls sort of uh being interested in you what was what was the appeal was it the sort of Make-Believe aspect or the idea of just pretending to be somebody else other than other than yourself what was it I think I responded to I I I mean now now I could now I guess I could articulate it now you know Malcolm um and not just Malcolm but uh there's a myth there's a mixture of vulnerability and Menace it's a sort of really delicious combination where an actor has that and I now I can articulate it now but I think that it was a it was that's why I was kind of I was just responding just it was a metaphysical reaction to it yeah it was like a visceral thing and then I used to practice his sort of crooked smile in the in in the in the mirror you know um yeah we do stuff like that don't we we kind of you know and it is I mean I was every week uh I I mean I I was in the first a fancy dress competition um I went as Batman ironically enough who I who I later I might have got to know quite um but Batman uh yeah and it was a crate crate paper uh cape and I had a utility belt and I made it my mother had the 60s plastic six very wide plastic sixes belt and I stuck cigarette packets to it and painted it yellow and that was my utility bill and I was you remember series here years ago called Adam adamant yeah yeah I was at a Madam one week the next week I was Doctor Who I was Batman I was so I was always it doesn't surprise me that I I I dress up for a living yeah you know um but yeah and then it was I went to Rod I I auditioned for Radha and they said you you know you're not very think about something else to do for a living um which is all my heroes had been there so it was you know I grew up with you know Tom Courtney Alan Bates Albert Finney you know all those Alec Guinness and all those people that had been to Radha and I I somehow thought I'd love to sort of follow in the tradition of that but um they did they I didn't get in and um I ended up at bruford's and yeah and how did how did your your mum and the family think about you wanting to be an actor I mean you were coming from very working class Origins and uh a few friends of mine they made fun of me and um but my mother was the my family were the type but I was like very lucky you know they were the support it was if that that's what you wanted if that's what you want to do then you you know you go for it kind of thing you know it was quite a good time in some respects anyway because it was a time of social mobility and things you know a lot of people wouldn't being encouraged to sort of do things that wouldn't have been allowed them maybe a few decades before so yeah a crazy idea I remember I remember before that um meeting the um I always like uh photography and um I remember before that speaking to the careers officer I don't know whether they still have them but we used to meet the careers officer and I said that I wanted to be BB I I quite fancied being a BBC cameraman and they looked at me like I've landed from Mars it's like you know I don't think so well we're going to go into the first clip now which uh gives some idea perhaps of uh how families do respond to the Ambitions of their their younger members uh could we have the first clip please I got some Cloud on walking round log Sabu look John John whoa don't leave the door forget good afternoon I'm a council official I've come about your lad why what's it done what have you done Shakespeare is what he's done he's taken a very good part as favorably impressed a prominent member of the education committee yes did I have a bed spread ah good afternoon who's this this is my husband ignore him your son is a born actor an actor but he went to Clark's College he has done short and yet imagine his Blazer this boy will never make a typist we can do 40 words a minute no he must take up a dramatic career but I've sacrificed all down the line in order for him to land a job in enough your son must go in for a scholarship to Rada rather the Royal Academy of dramatic art Rod huh Radha the Royal Academy of dramatic art do you know I'm looking for Smee now tell me again Captain I'm looking for a voice me oh what kind of boy captain a wicked boy a heartless boy a boy who never ate his rice pudding oh hello can there be such boys I they can it was a boy like that that cut off my arm and fed it to the crocodiles his name was Peter time tick tock tick tock tick tock you've had some amateur experience I gather Mr Orton tell us about it I I started off in Richard III as what a messenger well that was most original you've done very well you know what I didn't get into round that was in case you didn't know it uh Rick up your ears Direct by Stephen Frierson written by Alan Bennett um in 1987 with Gary playing the young Joe autumn and like uh Orton you studied drama then went into the theater and you did very well the Royal Court the Royal Shakespeare company you made a name for yourself uh when the type I might as well mention this you won the time out Fringe Theater award I had nothing to do with that because I'm not a theater fan um but um and numerous other prizes and things do you miss the stage because you you did it for a few years and then really that was it yeah yeah overall I think I did it for about eight or ten years something like that there was never there was never a time when I wasn't on stage I was either rehearsing and you know you know we we had the the rep system at um back then you know you would be you'd be performing in the evening and rehearsing the next play during the day um uh so it was a very it was a yeah it was a busy time um and then like yeah I just got it initially I would do I would do a film and a play a film and a play and that's how initially you know I started like that and then it just I I I I just sort of the the movie thing kind of took out I mean it was never any there wasn't a plan it wasn't um engineered it just kind of happened like yeah um do I miss it yeah do I flirt with it all the time about coming back and doing doing the play yeah um you missed the camaraderie this uh that that a sense of a company that you don't you don't quite have with with the with film although um I'm currently doing slow horses and that's the CL that is the closest I've felt to um a theater company um we did the first season you know you then you know it's the same people and you're all and then you're looking forward to coming back and working with the same so you've got the same makeup same here as Saint producers same actors you know and we we we're all we we get on so it's so it's that that's the that's the closest so far really because you know you work with people that you you you you meet someone and you work with them and you you make promises that you might well we should hang out or we should keep in touch and then and then you just go you just kind of go your separate ways um that that's that's the big thing I miss being in I think being in a company yeah yeah and did you find that I mean obviously it requires very different sort of acting in some respects you need to project the theater in a way that you don't in film and also you need to know your lines all the way through and things um but do you find the technique substantially different or is it all the same sort of thing it's all the same thing really to me I I I mean I was always um I was always told in rehearsal that the director couldn't hear me um and I I would say I'm work I'm finding it I'm working through it you know you you will hear me on on the day you will you will hear me um so I was always I was told that it was my my theater acting was was quiet and subtle um uh a review once said that Oldman acts for himself then the people around him and then for us um and I thought yes no it's it's I got I got um yeah I'd had like 10 years of it and it just got to a point where I got a little tired of it um it's uh look I'm very fortunate I'm very lucky to earn to earn a living the the way I own a living but um it was just the thing of night after night after night eight shows a week it it it was it was time to sort of just take a take a sort of take a rest from it and and my career in the in the film Arena just sort of blossomed and certain things yeah you started winning Awards in film as well so uh uh but could you just talk about how do you I mean you're not some somebody who's gone down the method route at all but how do you prefer prepare a role I mean do you think a lot about backstory or is there some sort of key to a character I remember Isabel Hooper once said well costume is very important and you know if she finds the right shoes to wear it helps her understand the character a bit you you for instance have amazing uh ability with with voice you know an accent I mean I think well with mentioning the theater you know you get rehearsal and then you can discover and fight you can find it during rehearsal with film um it's very rare to have rehearsal so it's what I call it's what I call bedroom doing it in your bedroom it's bedroom acting or kitchen acting you know you've got to do that you have to sort of do that work on your own I mean for an example uh prick up your ears um Joe Orton had a lisp and Stephen freyas who directed the movie didn't particularly want me to lisp my way through a film for 90 minutes so that was a decision that we made early on is you know because I'd researched it and found an audio recording and I said you know that he had this you know and he's said no I don't I kind of don't want that um I spoke to [Music] um I don't know whether it's method but I spoke to um the brother the sister um I spoke to kennish Williams um Ken cranum people that had worked with him um and built you know and also we had the book prick up your ears um and so you build a picture of of the person and then really it's it it let your imagination fly I I think I think that the the the quote for me which sums up what we do is from a acting teacher and there are many who are great and particularly you know Stella Adler and there's Strasbourg and Utah Hagen and all these various uh teachers of acting but Meisner said that acting was um living truthfully under imaginary circumstances and that is to me it in a nutshell you know and that a great and a great deal of it is Imagination so you do with with pick up your ears for instance you do a certain amount of work you get a ground zero you get a a base and then and then from that you you kind of fly and use your imagination and each role is is a different thing it sets up its own challenge um you know I remember saying a culpillar you know we went to what we called we affectionately called it Camp Coppola we went to Napa for four weeks rehearsal and um and uh they were you know Keanu Reeves was going horse riding and ballooning and doing all of these sort of exercises all this different sort of stuff and he was taking them off and and I said well I'm four or 500 years older and I'm dead what do I do um uh but he did get me coffee but I slept in one sometimes well is that method I don't know well let's just say that uh there are some people who had taken it a lot further so I'm glad you did they probably would have taken it yeah I could yes yeah we won't name names no I didn't drink blood I didn't do it yeah um and I think actually what we should do now is is go on to the next uh the next clip uh which is from the firm uh made for television but still very much a film uh by Alan Clark so if we could have the second clip please we ain't been in Europe for three years right in two weeks Simon is going to be after Europe waiting in Germany for us so oh no reason I value Larry Pratt is there anyone in look I know they don't cover it in The Beano so I tell you what's been happening I've seen it there's over 4 000 Dutch booked in for Germany for a start four thousand oboeu micro Maura this is not a bunch of Chula Growers on a day trip to the muni beer festival these guys are coming salled up and 12 car workers from Birmingham with a brains in everything foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] a friend from the Buccaneers here thinks they're driving a car across a football but it's a 50 mile an hour means he's out of his own Show's imagination now didn't he yeah well I suppose he would to you yeah I mean when you've got the intellectual capacity of a lumber jelly I should think enemy shows the imagination are you two slag's gonna [ __ ] all night because we've got a train to catch okay no you're going to tell us about this Mega plan of yours or what it's simple Lobo even you and Snow White might get the drift if we don't stick together they're going to trample all over us told you he's Running Scared oh am I wasting my time here or what look I'm Rick National firm do you want in or what don't tell me you want to be top girl there you are omo I told you it was simple enough for you the grasp who's a clever little girl in look at me sick you cockneys I always think you've got the right to run things I don't know you couldn't run a piss up in a brewery you're a joke oh what's the matter I love getting too late here is it here monkey ring room service and get eyeballs will milk it's well pasties I ain't following a bunch of thumb suckers you want to run a national firm friend you put your ass in gear behind us right oh we all night is it to find one thing I I like about your performance there it shows that you know okay bexie is the leader of that particular firm but every time he says something he looks around to make sure that he's having the right effect on the other members of The Firm it's it's a it's a performance he's putting on a performance for them as much as for himself yeah yeah it's yeah very much so and the Little Smiles that he gives to himself you know it's immensely detailed performance you give there well that's very good yeah I mean you've got it if it might be looking at it now that might be a tad over written yes but it was a good script and it was uh it and it was with the lovely Adam Clarke who God bless him yeah and uh that was Alan's last last uh last film yeah so we we we sadly we lost our one to cancer um but he made some wonderful stuff you know and it was just a joy and a great it was I learned a great deal from um I know that there might be I heard that there might be Charlie Creed miles is he around here tonight there's Charlie how are you and there's Stephen Sweeney yeah Steve and um I you know I used to go in and I I think I did where I'd say are you I I'd come into the makeup track sometimes and say hello and you know just you know have you got a cup of tea you know are they sort of looking after you and that was this thing that Alan did I you know you work with some directors who are I have to say or pigs and you work with and you get on a set it all it comes from the top you walk on a set and you can go I can work on in this atmosphere and I can be creative in this atmosphere or you can't but it all it always comes from the top and they're asked um I I don't know why it's it's a profession that attracts bullies particularly directing and um and when you work with the Gooden and you work with someone who is Humane it really it makes it makes a difference and I work with Alan and Alan was such he would always say how you doing are you all right you know you want a cup of tea um and you could go to Alan I remember saying it I you could go to Alan with ideas and you could say things like I remember once I said to him listen I've got this idea about the scene and and he and he said I'll never forget it and he's living in his you know when he's Liber probably and when he's hot like that and um I said I've got this idea and you go idea idea I haven't heard it yet but I [ __ ] love it say and I said look what if we did this to that and he went you know what yeah and he went boys turn the cameras around [ __ ] get rid of all that we're doing it this way um and then there were times when you would have an idea and he would say it's a great idea but I need this this and this and this and I can't do it you know what I mean he would be you you know but you could go with him freely go and that and I thought when I worked with Allen I thought if I ever direct I would take a leaf from Allen's book because um I'd worked with some people and I thought my God if I ever directed I could never ever talk to a creative person the way you speak to them I mean monsters monsters I think once a long time ago I said I I was quoted as saying like directors are like jailers of my talent you know what I mean and there's those you can work with and you can be creative with and there's those that can't and I'd like to think maybe that we we had a but we had a good time yeah it was they're not saying anything sorry give the thumbs up anyway so Alan was that that was that was the great uh thing more more it was the experience of working with Alan um I you know you you I think you're under you are under pressure we're always looking for that in result it's always got to be you know you work on something and you I don't know you're a painter and you have an exhibition and you go I hope it's successful you know you make a movie and there's a lot of writing on it people want to make money from it they you want a good opening weekend you know there's always that there's that end result and as I've got older I'm less concerned with the end result I I want to enjoy the journey more yeah and um and I'm in some I'm I'm as I say I'm in some I'm in some very good movies that have been made by pigs and I I and I don't I and I you know and I had no you go yeah it's great but oh my God I wouldn't go through that again yeah and and now I'm more concerned with I want to come in and and work with some really good night I want to work with some nice people too there's only one one director you work with quite recently Stephen Soderberg told me some years ago that he regards the main part of his job is to make people especially the cast feel comfortable on set so they can do good work that that's the main thing about the director yes you know yeah the great the great one was um Oliver Stone is a task master surprise me yeah I do surprise you there don't know he can uh oh my God he can be God he can be tough he can be tough but he's vain so I got my own back I just say to him you're right Oliver you're feeling okay and you go yeah yeah man I'm good why I go you look a little pale and I'd walk away and then 10 minutes later I'd walk through the set and he was there with the doctor with the with the blood pressure so you can always find a way to get your own back can't you without it you give me a hard time I'll give you a hard time you know made a great movie though um the firm is about football gang violence um and a kind of masculinity which seems to me I don't know you well but we've known each other for quite a while and masculinity I don't have a kind of masculinity which is completely alien uh to to to your version of masculinity and I mean how do you get into that mindset had you been as a kid were you for instance attempted to go into gangs or something somebody used to support millwall I think so you know you you were you were sort of I know sometimes you know you were very interested in the football scene at that time so yeah no I now it's the same with really it's what Neil it's Neil how Neil by mouth came about it's I I watch I would be fascinated by those characters I'm fascinated by those those I've said it with you know those those men in the certain type of man in the pub you know I've said it before you know you go to a you you're in a pub no one ever says um you always hear no one ever says oh I didn't I didn't know that or oh really I don't know that or they it's always that yeah I used to fly those yeah it's SEC it's it it's that kind of there's a certain type of guy that I would you know it really in nil by mouth I'm the girl I'm the little the girl who doesn't speak that's the character I play because I was watching it all happening and watching it all go go on so I I've start I studying people I it's like taking snapshots yeah of of and I used to watch it all as a kid so I'm fascinated and hope I can emulate them and portray it but it's not my I was never a pub guy and a gangs and things you know I did I've done a little bit of no I didn't did I was a you know it could be a bit light fingered when I was a kid but I grew up you know I'd say anything incriminated no I knew it was a statute of limitations make do we have that here no I I think we've all you know it wasn't it wasn't I never got into like serious stuff you know but but you're egged on by your peers you know it was like come on you've got to be part of this and you've got to be there and I dare you you know you know so you you'd end up going and Nick in a bag of maltesers even though you didn't want to you know yeah peer peer grip pressure one thing that the firm uh deals with uh and and you know you've it's and cars you've got a very Working Class cast in that film and you were very much a working class actor and traditionally of course the British acting tradition has often come from the middle classes or upper middle classes still does to some extent um did did that class thing ever present any sort of difficulties for you a in terms of your career progressing but also in terms of relationships with other creatives well I think I think I had a little ins I had insecurity about it um you're made to feel that you you know you you know you didn't go to the right school or you don't you know you don't have the right tie kind of that there was very much that class thing I that I put on myself you know to me now I can't say I was experiencing it but but it's an insecurity or a vulnerability that you have that you kind of it's just all that baggage that you put on yourself um I always said that had I not really been I'd gone to America if we had if they had made Dracula here I'd have played Renfield I wouldn't have been cast as um I always I I thought why can't a career be International why do I just have to be this one thing um and uh you know you look at early you look at someone like Albert Finney early on you know in his career you know he's one of the great Saturday night Sunday morning Minister to me working class lad from Manchester but went on to do other things out outside of that that um so uh yeah there was a bit I think initially a bit of that um but I always wanted to just sort of um you know push the envelope with it yeah with it all and I like to think maybe um I've helped sort of push the boat out for people like Tim Ross and Daniel Day-Lewis and I I was there I was there slightly before them doing that and working in America and all of that just you know I did a film called state of grace and Phil Schwann director for Joanna and and Sean Penn had seen me in something and said oh let's get this at uh this British actor you know can you do it America can you can you do a sort of a New York accent and I went yeah of course I can you know because that's the first thing you say and then you go how'd you do it but you know can you ride a horse ride a horse of course you know you do you do all that so you do all that sort of stuff and I went and made the sloth this this film with them and all of the stones saw it and was casting and so I want someone with a certain intensity for Oswald and cold and cast me as I was it's all it's so very much right place right time um some Talent some luck it's a whole bag a whole cocktail of stuff and it just sort of and it just sort of snowballs from there but um so it wasn't I am going to uh you know some some people seem as a bit traitor you know going going across the pond but you must remember also at the time they the the British film industry now is blooming and you've got with streaming and you've got these companies you know now there's now now you're different you can't hire people you know they're not they're not available a lot of the people that you'd want to work with back then we were making very few films and you know if Tim Roth was M1 and Dan Day Lewis was in the other you know what I mean it wasn't like it wasn't like I got um sent all the scripts um and so I enjoyed making movies I enjoyed being on a movie set and I wanted to practice and the place where they were doing it was America yeah yeah well you I've got off the subject yet but okay no no not at all and in fact you've taken us uh exactly to the right place because you have mentioned Tim Roth a couple of times so could we have the next clip please is there what's he doing sleeping it's all right for him what is he can sleep it's all right for him he's got us now he can sleep it's all done for him he's got us we've got nothing we've got nothing why don't you say something original you don't take me up on anything he just repeat everything I say in a different order I can't think of anything original I'm only good in support I'm sick of making the running it's right I'll see well all right but we've got nothing to go on we're out on our own we're on our way to England we're taking Hamlet to the English king what for what for where have you been and we've got a letter you remember the letter everything is explained in the letter is that it then what can we take Hamlet to the English king we hand over the matter what then that's it we finished who is the English king that depends on when we get there so we've got a letter which explains everything you've got it I thought you had it I do have it you have it you've got it I don't get it you haven't got it I just said that I've got it oh I've got it shut up what a shambles we're just not getting anywhere not even England and I don't believe in it anyway England just a conspiracy of cartographers you make I mean I don't believe it but if it is true the king of England won't know what we're talking about what are we going to say we say Your Majesty we have arrived and who are you and we are rosenkates never heard of you well nobody what's your game we have our instructor first I've heard of it let me finish we've come from Denmark what do you want nothing we're delivering Hamlet who's he you've heard of him oh I've heard of him all right and I want nothing to do with it you marching here without so much as a boy or leave and expect me to take in everything to take you try to pass off with a lot of unsubstantiated we've got a letter I sue well this seems to support your story such as it is it is an exact command from the king of Denmark for several different reasons importing Denmark's health and England's too that on the reading of this letter without delay I should have Hamlet's head cut off Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead uh directed by Tom stoppard from his own play um and uh like prick up your ears it's a rare foray into comedy I mean prick up here is not just comedy yeah but uh you haven't actually done that much comedy uh that you've often been cast as villains for a while in your career but you haven't actually done comedy you're very good at it um do you regret not having done more comedy no I've tried no um no one wants you for comedy maybe maybe it's just it's always amazing when people say you know so you say I don't know Gary can he do comedy and you go you only look at Dracula I would say so go and look at Dracula I mean it's it's the campus thing out you know um there's it's peppering of comeding in in the uh oddly enough it's what I'm doing now is has a lot of Comedy yeah it would um yeah yeah but uh yeah it just never happened it's it's always that thing and when you you if you sing and then they go wow we can sing I didn't know it God he could the kid can sing or he can dance and it starts saying I didn't know you could dance and it's that thing I didn't know you could be funny so it was just I just got into this um I mean the villain thing was just turning I had to consciously turn the ship around you know there was a point where you could you I had to say I can't do that anymore I'm not doing that anymore um I said what I one thing I like about this I mean Rosencrantz or or indeed Gildan show whichever one you were playing um uh but he's he is so different to bexie or indeed a lot of the villains you were playing and he's got a really touching innocence sometimes when I I in that that clip I'm almost reminded of Stan Laurel um you know this sort of rather the close to tears moment and and also the the real genuine innocence and kindness of the character do you ever think when you're I mean this is probably an idiotic question which just shows that I've never been trying to be an actor but do you ever think how would somebody else play this part another act to me yeah oh yeah you do yeah no well often I mean I get cast at things sometimes and I'd say it what they if I was directing this I wouldn't cast me and I'd always see you know when I was on stage sometimes when you were in I was in a long run and I got a little you get you want to liven it up you know and then I would think how would Dustin Hoffman play tonight you know and it doesn't mean that you go out there and you're you suddenly play the part you know you're not going to kind of do it like that but you you you would give yourself little challenges you know if you were feeling a little a little sluggish or tired you know how would how would Gene Hackman do it or you know but yeah I often I've a lot of my career I've cast other yeah I've got roles and then the first thing I was saying like my producing um partner here died a bad ski and he who actually who was produced some of these you and and you'll buy Mouse but as a manager you would say so and so it's called and I go do they really really do they really do they really want me do they like me you know you still get um I've been doing it I've been doing it for 42 years and you still get you know you have those insecurity yeah I can't I cast a lot of cast a lot of my roles with other people and they were in my head they were really good at it I mean you you say you know you'd sometimes do the why they've cast you but what about your choice of projects what do you look for in a project do you think about the character you're being asked to play or the script overall or is it the director or you know I mean well if all of those things come together you know and actors here certainly and two I know there you you know you don't get offered every script and it's how you make your money and how you earn a living it is really really really difficult to ultimately keep your dignity as an actor I don't know and that may apply with many to many other things but at some point you got to put food on the table and you've got to pay the mortgage are you getting the kids through school and a job comes in that you don't particularly want to do but you go I I I I I I need to do this and I've had and I've had those periods where um I've had to work out of necessity and not not not everything has been let me let's say in the the Premier League um when it comes along and it all marries together then those are a few I think I I've had a few of them and I have been luckier than I've been really lucky at the most I've had more than a few come my way but when they do come your way you know when Doug says to me you know David Fincher who I've known for 25 years says to me it you know it's about her magowitz and it's still you know the script and it's directed by David you know you that's yeah that's nice you know that doesn't always you know and even with in fact in fact we we in fact we had darkest hour before Joe right but when we got Joe right the the thing coming together you know that and they come and they do come and they have and they have come along but um you also I you can't be a sensation you know every every time out sure it's it's sometimes you just have to sort of do jobbing you have to you have to work and um and that's something I I later got to meet Malcolm and got I became friends with Malcolm which was one of the great one of the great Thrills of my life and and Malcolm's that he's sort of you know I'm not sure I think he's from he's he's up north he's from you know but is that sort of like just get out there and [ __ ] work mate you know what I mean it's just like that's what people can do you know you're an actor you [ __ ] work just do the just do the uh do the I've got a wonderful story about Malcolm can I tell it yeah it's not lifeless or anything no it was do you know that um do you know that Star Trek movie that that it now comes the villain yeah and he kills captain again he kills Captain Kirk you know and they're on the set and will Shatner came comes up and sits next to me he says so Malcolm how is it he says how does it feel he says what and what the hell does it feel what he says he says that you're going to uh you're gonna kill an American icon what he goes Captain Kirk how do you think how do you think the public how do you think America is going to handle it you're going to kill off Captain Co and Malcolm said well he said I think probably one half of America would be really sad and the other half would be really you know really glad but he said what half of be glad that Malcolm said the half that's had you at to here for 30 [ __ ] years foreign [Applause] episode was enough for me I'm afraid um I think we should actually move on uh to the next clip which is from nil by mouth foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] foreign where were you he was playing snooker you're all right I didn't call the old bill well it might form don't be [ __ ] stupid it's all I need the old Bill snooping about on the plot and it might be so [ __ ] busy it was Billy Jane this big Keys had gone I mean what am I going to say they broke in with a key I look a right [ __ ] when I okay you won't keep him up there are you no why no I was just wondering you know because you know he's due or deep didn't you he's A thieving little slag and when I get older him I want to kick his [ __ ] head in that's why you had a beer what if I had a [ __ ] beer did you get [ __ ] Lipsy I don't see why not you knock her about enough you might as well do a job I'm not starting coming round here he showed up at work we had words and that was it [ __ ] ID in him get indoors mother your nosy [ __ ] care it's got nothing to do with you okay I want to get her around all right she has got a name now you know she was Kristen not you [ __ ] remember that's his mum's pitching don't slam the [ __ ] door mate who's always moaning about you close the door you have to just close the door if you pulled it like that I remember my friend would always say um don't slam the door don't slam the door and that came to me yeah yeah it's uh I could speak with Gary about this film for probably days and we have actually spoken about a great length for the extra on the on the Blu-ray DVD release of nil by mouth so if you want to find out more about this particular film do get hold of that when it's out um because we're not going to have 50 minutes to talk about it now but I I do think I mean much as I love all your uh not all of your films that you've acted in but and we won't discuss the ones that unless but great performances numerous uh but I think to me this is perhaps your greatest achievement and I I well you know I was completely knocked out when I first saw it and it still stands up incredibly well when we were watching the the uh clip from The Firm you did mention quite rightly that it was a tad over written and one of the great things apart from Ron 40 Naruto's photography and all the performances in the film is this has I know there's a lot of bad language in it yeah but it is the most brilliantly uh evocative uh script when it comes to how people actually speak um it's it's absolutely superb now I know a lot of it came from stuff you'd observed some stuff you'd lived through uh um I don't want to go into too much about how autobiographical it was and and certainly we must emphasize that Ray the character played by Ray Winston was not your father no it's not my father and your father was not violent we must we must correct that because some people said that at the time when they reviewed it and they got things wrong but it was a very film that was very close to your heart in many ways uh was it important that when you when you finally got around to directing that you dealt with something that was not only something you knew about firsthand but also that could allow you to sort of possibly get some stuff out of your system it may have been a bit Yeah there may have been something cathartic about it I'm not sure I just I always a big fan of casabaris you know it's influenced by um neo-realism and uh I I'd have to say Ken Loach obviously but um casabet is very much so and I remember a quote saying um that you said you don't see a helicopter just crashing in my movies because I've never seen one crash um it was that thing of that old thing of stick to what you stick to what you know um extended family we had someone who was initially all it was gonna it was going to be about the character that Charlie Creed miles played Billy um Mike standard family had someone who was a heroin addict and um I wouldn't uh it was she you know I wouldn't wish it on anyone and obviously needed money to buy drugs and with and he stole from me broken in my flat broke into my sister's flat and it was really going to be um a a story primarily about that and that's how it was all written but basically longhand and I always say you know it took me three weeks to write and it was 30 years in development you know it just sort of poured out but that that was initially who it was going to be about and then of course it became its its own thing um but a lot of it is made up but they're sick you know I'd like like the thing where he goes don't slam the [ __ ] door I just remember my mate always saying I'd always close the door or anyone getting in the car it was always this thing about this bloody car and you can't close the you know so things are like like like what I was saying earlier the thing of um as using things as an actor like you take snapshots one example I was in a film uh that Ridley Scott the Hannibal yeah and Mason Mason Verger and I'm lying there and I know you know and you think what am I going to do I'm in a bed I'm in a wheelchair and I've got this terribly scarred face so all movement and all of that is taken away from you and I met Thomas Harris the Rider and the creator of Hannibal for like one minute in passing and he smelt like he had to hang out and he had this voice and just for one minute as he put and I just went got it and that's you know and now I I put some uh English on it you might say I put a little bit of something on it um but you know that's amazing world of you and that's that's where that voice came from and it was just meeting him for like you know whatever 30 seconds so I think as an actor you you know you you I meet someone and I see I know that walk or that gesture or and I'll file it I I'll put it in the hard drive you know I'll kind of file it away and I think that's basically that that's what I did with with with Neil by mail something I made up it's a ray is a sort of an amalgamation of different sort of of people um but when you when you come from a particular type of I think neighborhood you know in terms of its authentic you know it's authenticity is uh is um it it I had a facility it was I had a facility for it you know it was it came to me relatively easy um I think it I've been the reason I loved it so much I hadn't really seen that sort of life that sort of experience reflected so honestly and with a an unflinching and unsentimental honesty which was also at the same time compassionate and also allowed for humor so it's interesting you keep cutting to the little girl here because she's you she's that she's seeing all this Dreadful Behavior going on but at the same time there are moments that will genuinely funny yeah I mean there is a there's there's a moment in the film where um she uh Val leaves uh Ray Ray the character and goes back to her mother's and he turns up in the middle of the night and he's kicking at the door you know it's just like give me my [ __ ] kicking you know and I think that Janet who is Val's mum is standing there with a carving knife in her hand I took that from life my ex brother-in-law came around one night three o'clock in the morning kicking out the door um they data Chef she had gone with the kid you know it was you know I remember being very young hearing you know give me more [ __ ] kid give me my you know and and my sister panicking and just grabbing a knife and going if you God if he comes in I mean I doubt whether she would have done anything but it was I I'm and it and then you just get out of pneumonia go to school and it was good you didn't read it was like oh that's what everybody does yeah I'm sure everyone lives like this I'm like done but um so there there were certain things that I that I drew specifically from from experience and um it's not as it's it's not a sort of it's not I thought I'd get away with you know saying it was semi-autobiographical and then at the time when it came out it was like oh your dad must have been violent and a lot of it is made up a lot of it is just uh my imagination but but the but the springboard for some of these people comes from comes from a real comes from a real person I know that there's um Billy has a whole conversation in the laundry um which uh Billy Charlie plays um um you remember Charlie about the Dipper and the dog Judy getting put down and that whole thing that was that that again was someone in my extended family um we I left her my dog we my mum had left the dog with him for and we went on holiday and when we came back he'd put the dog down for no other reason that he just couldn't be fat to feed the dog you know and gave some excuse about it bitten someone or something like that so that that is directly that's directly from my own personal experience that then I just put into the mouth of a yeah of a character I mean the you you ended up having to finance the film more or less large very large part of it yourself uh and I'm still paying for it and I mean by then the British film industry had changed a bit but wasn't exactly very supportive of this project but no one wanted it yeah was that because it was so dark in I have no idea it's it's very funny I always get and and you may before we can obviously wrap this up and you you know people say why haven't you directed again and and it hasn't been for one or trying as if we've discussed um but his funny thing is always the people that's most that say to me the most that you know why don't you direct are you direct again you should make another film I nearly always the people who either run companies who wants money or have the facility to get money and finance and um that it's always them and you go yeah well I've got a script if you but but they they don't want another one of these that's the problem they want Four Weddings and a funeral they want me to direct again but not this and so it's uh I think the film shows talent and promise and I would have thought that someone might have come along and said what you got next Gary and I did I had a film and uh I could have said um it's a it's a it actually it's a film about dysfunctional people who in who are in inappropriate relationships but let's say it's about sex addict if you want to just you know yeah yeah I've got a film about sex adding this I wrote In 96. what do you need I don't know about five maybe five mil all right no no one so it was it was the it was the funny does that sound a little bit like sour grapes maybe it does and I don't care you know we we had not one penny from anyone here I had I had looked that song gave me a bit of money and I knew it wasn't enough I was the bond I shook his hand I said I want our Penny over I had made a little bit of money making movies I didn't have Ferraris and you know I didn't spend money and like that and I thought you know what I'll buy myself a moving picture um it was made for five friends it was an experiment I didn't care if it got American distribution it wasn't made for America I'm not going to put subtitles on it I'm not going to water down the accents it's it's a colloquial thing about this world and if five people watch it every 10 years and we get it out and I'd book a place like this and we run it you know what I mean then that that was the attitude going in and uh but yeah I ended up I I ended up I I ended up paying for it and then at one point um I need you to pay the crew and uh and I saw I'm gonna have to close this movie down and I called her Mark Friedman um who is on it as an executive producer and he said how much do you need I said I need a meal and he went you got it and he wrote me a check um everyone I knew that everyone I actually read I didn't know Mark that well but everyone I knew who had money didn't want anything well let me read the script and uh let me run it by my lawyer my attorney and you go no I need it like I need the money Monday you know I need it soon um yeah it was kind of the little it was a little sad and every way everywhere I turned my own representation warning Douglas not to make it it's suicide it's career suicide what have you read the script [ __ ] [ __ ] you know it doesn't know what he's doing and then the first two weeks of shooting a thing got leaked in the newspaper saying um it's a mess it's a disaster he doesn't know what he's doing it won't cut together I mean it was horrendous and then afterwards it came out and calm and all the rest of it and seeing and the for the most part it got good reviews yeah you know and um I bought a bad one though can I yes no they they were I mean my honestly some of the reviews for this film my my mother couldn't have written them I mean they were so they were so great but it's not everyone's cup of tea and this is uh Tucson the Tucson Weekly Gary Oldman directs the story about an unpleasant Englishman English Men Who attack each other beat their wives take drugs and Shout at each other for no reason the film is the Cinematic equivalent of the two-hour drum solo by a one-armed drummer the tone is relentlessly loud and becomes mind-numbingly dull after the third or fourth beating beat in imagine having your head stuck in a vise while a drunken Cockney screams in your ear and you've pretty much summed up this unfortunate attempt at a career shift for the rapidly fighting Oldman I'm going to suggest that the BFI uses that on the quote I I think so and then I read actually read that in the dressing room back there and my son Alfie is here he said who wrote that Dad Mike Lee thank you I'm not sure if Mike is here I think it's probably time to move on um what I would say is that I actually had have read a subsequent script by you which is nothing like uh nearby math flying horse which is by Edward my bridge and you know that should be financed as well I mean they should be giving you money people should be giving you money yeah I've had that one I wrote that I started writing that 10 years ago yeah maybe someone might yeah people here know Edward mybridge the one the the pioneering photographer yeah I can't yeah I can't make that either oh well and then I spent four I spent four years adapting a wonderful book by Darren Strauss which was a fictionalized account of changanang the Siamese twin yes the original same as twins and very proud of that too and then I couldn't get that made but you you know I've got I'm lucky I've got a day job though yeah and now with with um with with the the series you know I I I'm I'm happy there good um yeah um you don't it's funny enough you don't often get a chance to repeat um to come to revisit people you know I I'd like to have I I love playing smiley and I would have loved to have maybe come back and done Smiley's people and that was on the cards for a while and it didn't happen but it is nice it's nice to sort of with different scenarios play the same character in different sort of situations and I think uh I I I I'm I'm hoping that we have longevity with the series because I do re I've seen the first series and I do recommend it but we should go back to the day job now so if we could have the next two clips together please two clips together he said there's a mole right at the top of the circus that he's been there for years it does mean your other well placed to look into this matter for us now doesn't it outside the family I'm retired Oliver you fired me the thing is some time ago before control died he came to me with a similar suggestion that there is a mole he he never mentioned his suspicions to you no oh I just thought it was just your his man so to speak what did you say to him well I'm afraid I thought he's paranoid rather got the better of him he's going to put his whole house down that bloody mess and Budapest Mr President the Franklin how are you fine fine how are you prime minister well I I mean fine Federal I'm Federal listen I'm a telephone about your Navy ships if you could learn this just uh 50 older destroyers or even 40 would do I uh I did ask around but just not possible I'm afraid the Neutrality Act we signed last year has tied my hands just can't swing it I tried well can I uh um do I have your permission to send an aircraft carrier to pick up the P40 fighter planes we purchased from you Mr President you've got me there again new law preventing transshipment of military equipment yeah but we paid for them we we paid for them with the money that we that we borrowed from you I'm so so sorry Winston I need not interest upon you trouble faced by the Western Hemisphere without your supporting some professionals I know I know know you are on my mind day and night look we shouldn't possibly I mean to say we are facing the gravey starts we can't take your place and then if you send across a team of horses from Canada nothing motorized then you could pull them over the Border yourself how does that sound horses um you you did say a a team of horses we could do that prime minister prime minister anything you could do at this time uh Francine would be most welcome good night to you Winston it must be late there in more ways than you could possibly know foreign in selecting the clips for this evening I've tried to show your range and versatility which everybody has commented on in the past anyway uh and I am particularly dealing with your more recent career but I've chosen public because they were very highly praised obviously and award-winning uh but also because they show that you still even long after you know having been very successful with the Dark Knight films and the Harry Potter films you still like challenges it seems to me and uh for instance there's a challenge of doing Tinker Taylor so despite after Alec Guinness I mean that in itself I mean how did you feel about that because it you know he had made that character his own he's laughing no chair no I was absolutely I was um uh it's the first time ever that I had like what you would call staged right but to the point where I I wanted to get out of the movie I said I can't do this I can't I built up this I was in the shadow of our Guinness um um and cursed I'd ever said yes to it but I mean I was I I said yes wonderful great I'll do it and then you know three minutes later I started to sweat I thought well my god what have I said yes to and what have I done but of course that's the part of me that I suppose is you know damn it I'm gonna do it and you know uh if I fail I fail you know at least I sort of went through it um yeah so that was yeah a bit cheeky um and it was in a way I mean it's because you've been sort of praised for sometimes quite larger than live performances or very sort of expressive people and here you're going to the absolute opposite extreme and it's all about external externalizing something but yeah it's it's the secret was it's making a right I mean a brilliant man but a rather sort of dull boring man interesting it that was the challenge to make boring interesting because it's all so internal that it's still sort of going on underneath um most of the stuff I've done the first reaction to it is no so I've I've turned down virtually everything that came my way and then it would come back and then it was I mean Beethoven I mean look at me come on you know and uh it came back and it came back and it came back and they wouldn't take it wouldn't take no for an answer and in the end you know what I mean it was it it and and is so um yeah my initial reaction was Alec Guinness wouldn't go near it I'm not going to go near and touch it it's sacred and he is to me you know just one of my um and then um and then of course Churchill was just it was like you know they want you to you know what about Churchill and I think I just laughed and I just said said look at me I said look at me come on I said Chamberlain maybe if I lose a bit away you know I could maybe do Chamberlain at a pinch but um absolutely not no way and then that went away and then it came back and it went away and it came back as these things do and and then and then you again you go all right yeah and then you think oh my Heavens what have I now what have I sort of set up go and do but this is that was one of the other challenges because you've but you know you've done quite a lot of roles which basically real people with Sid Vicious um now I'm the bio kid they used to always come to me and and that in itself you're you're you're taking on something quite difficult there because people are always going to say oh but is he like that person or not and actually there's the other thing how do you get Beyond mere impersonation or memory crew and create transcend that so that you give a a proper performance well you only use that as you you start with mimicry and then and then it becomes its own it if you do enough work on it it'll just become it you you you can't become him I can't be coming so uh the the thing the secret was is it's always finding a key in it's finding that to open the door I think a lot of maybe a lot of actors work working maybe working the same way church has always played as a a curmudgeon he's always played as this sort of lumbering old man who's always in a bad mood and that's how I'd always sort of seen him portrayed I looked at hours of footage of him and there were two things that struck me him walking ahead of he had to do a sort of military inspection it was in Africa I think it was and he was walking ahead and skipping up these steps ahead of the the the the generals and the captains and what have you and he was there and and he had this fixity of purpose like he was on this Mission he wasn't a lumbering uh six 60 a six-year-old or whatever and also um there was a a piece a little bit of footage of him in a tent again in Africa with with with the with the men and he was drinking beer which was unusual for him and he had this twinkle in his eye he had this cheeky sort of cherubic grin and the twinkle in his eye and those were the two things I saw he has energy and he's got obviously he's got wit someone that Bloody miserable couldn't have been that witting so it would have to be funny and have a spark to him and and and that I ran with so you look at the research and you read the thing and you read the books and you look at the footage and you listen to the voice and and all of that and you you you get you you that's where you start but then you've got to make him your own thing and and those are the two things that I thought I'd never seen before I thinning was was Sensational um and so was Robert Hardy and uh but but often he's this miserable old guy and and I and I thought no no he wasn't he wasn't there he was he had a spark and um so that's the you know you you you begin I began with impersonation yeah because you've got you know yeah well you know all that sort of usual stuff that you sort of start with and um the way he held the cigar and you watch you know you kind of you you kind of watch it all you know as always on the left side of his mouth [Music] your Thief you're like you are really actively like in bagpipes you just we're absolute thieves we're all here still but there's also that yet another challenge which is and you'd encountered this I suppose a bit with Dracula and also Mason Verger in Hannibal the challenge of having to work with a lot of makeup uh which often takes a long time to put on uh a does that make uh a project at perhaps a little less appealing if you're gonna have to spend hours each day doing that but also is it is it more difficult to act when you've got quite a lot of makeup because what one reason I chose that thing which is a single take and it's just you really talking into a phone and you're going into big close-ups but with with all that makeup you're so dependent upon the eyes and and the mouth and just just having makeup make make it more difficult to act it's really it's well it all comes back also that comes back to really comes all the way around of what we were saying about what kind of directory you're working with when I did Hannibal it was six and a half hours makeup and when I got to the set Ridley was very aware of that and I had underneath the makeup um because he had no eyelids the character had no eyelids and couldn't blink so we came up with this thing where they stuck uh um uh fishing wire onto my eyelids and it ran up underneath the wig and here they stuck the fishing wire underneath the makeup and it ran down here and it anchored to a sort of third nipple and when we'd go for a take they would come in and they would tug at the back of my head and they were tied down here and my eyes would open and then there was like a doctor who was they had a guy who had a guy that was giving me like eye drops you know but Ridley was aware of it and he would and if people were faffing around he would say come on guys I've got an actor here in makeup that not everyone is that not not everyone is that respectful really um but well you do see it come alive in the mirror that as you as it as you apply it you have to have you have to be very patient you have to be very still and um and my average day on darkest hour we did I've worked I think 47 50 days straight I had the makeup on uh 64 times that make up um and my average day was um 16 to 18 hours because I'd come in I'd have four and a half four hours of makeup for it we got it down to about four and a half and then I'd work a 12-hour day um and then it was 45 minutes to take off and then by the time you drove back back and had a dinner you know and put your head on the pillow it would have been and then you're up again coming in and I've got I must have skit I must have a face like old boots because I just never once got a rash or any you know that would have been if I had reacted to it I mean that that would have been a disaster because it was I mean we really robbed the dice on that to have that glue on your face consecutively for 47 50 days it's um kid is pretty pretty but I kind of I'm I'm one of those you know there's there's people who can't they can't bear even just the general kind of makeup they can't stand it um I I'm not gonna that was I'm kind of and maybe I'm getting to the point where I'm I'm not looking for you know um I might do the remake of the Elephant Man mmm tomorrow [Music] I mean you're telling us that for days on end you had to undergo this sort of stuff during these very long days is this actually the career that you wanted to do when you were a kid do you still feel the same about acting as you see when you want well here's the thing when you first you you gotta you know you go to drama school um my first rep job was I got 30 what was I got I got so my first wage packet as an actor was 13 pounds I think I was 13 pounds um before tax right so it was yeah um and I thought my God I would do this for nothing I'm I can't believe they're paying me to do this that's changed hasn't it fellas I have some producers here from my slow horses no uh it yeah and then you're up there going my good I just love you and you know they've been here this Peaks and valleys right that's uh and uh [Music] um are you doing I'm enjoying you don't have any regrets about having followed your dream oh I'm I will forever be grateful it's it's remarkable to think of um you know if I think of seeing Malcolm on that TV or those years ago from a sort of yeah work A working class kit from new cross to um to stand there and uh you know to be at the Oscars and stuff I mean I just I mean in true satellimes of spirit you just have to go you know okay no you can't you have to pinch yourself I'm I'm I've had I've been blessed more than more than as a and there's so many many many many good people that have never quite made you or you know an actors actress that I've worked with and uh you you just go you know I've had a I've had a great I've been really blessed really really really and and that's not yeah there's talent and an application and hard work and all of that there's there's a work ethic that that as that has helped that certainly but um I have a bit lucky at the most um so I'm very great I'm very grateful who would have who would have thought you know yeah and and I used to come here here's the here's the thing I was 13 12 13 14. I used to come here and watch what they do you used to have all-nighters they used to have yet and they'd have an all-night Hitchcock and you would come and I'd have my sandwiches and my flask of tea and I would come and I'd watch like three or four Hitchcock movies one after the other all through the night um and there and so I used to yeah it's amazing I used to sit here and watch these movies um when I was you know 13 and here I am sitting here [Music] um we could have talked for hours I haven't even I mean I should tell you Gary is a great cinephile just getting him to talk about other people's movies is really interesting he's also a very fine photographer and I would love to have had time to speak to you about your passion photography for photography uh that there's a lot of films and directors and things we've never even touched on but uh we have sadly uh run out of time um and uh we do have something for you to have a look at but before uh you do that would you please thank Gary Oldman [Applause] the slow horses not typical MI5 ex-service agent founderton concert Jeff heart failure it was in his 60s smoke drank oh Jaws hey look at me yeah I'm in my Prime he left a note on his phone cicada Russia's sleeper agents embedded in British Society they've been reactivated more people are gonna die if you uncovered the trail that quickly it couldn't have been that well hidden thanks ma'am I do not need the slow horses digging around the past suspicious there's more to it that has been an alert eggs are Triton right at the top me as I've finished business there is a plane packed with explosives thousands of people they're gonna die sometimes the only way to work out why a trap has been set is to walk into it

Channel: BFI

Views: 159,942

Keywords: British Film Institute (Publisher), British, film, institute, films, movie, movies, cinema, BFI, Gary Oldman, Batman, The Dark Knight, Harry Potter, culture, interview, The Fifth Element, Nil By Mouth, The Firm, Slow Horses, Apple TV+, Television, TV, drama, spies

Id: pq0NCHfrI9c

Length: 94min 36sec (5676 seconds)

Published: Wed Nov 02 2022