From the Archives - Richard Nixon and Lee Kuan Yew Discuss Contemporary Foreign Policy Issues (1985)

tough durable smart leanu of Singapore is not as his Rivals have discovered a man to mess around with but his track record is such that when he expresses his opinions which he does with a bluntness that is uncharacteristic in this part of the world everyone including Washington pays attention prime minister Lee Joins us now live from Singapore Richard ni's credentials as an anti-communist are longstanding and unquestioned but it was President Nixon who reestablished a more cordial relationship to China with his visit to Beijing in 1972 and Mr Nixon joins us live now from New York President Nixon when you express that rather pessimistic view a number of years back that America was in danger of becoming a pitiful helpless giant premature pessimism I believe that as we heard the first part of this program we would say yes it was does but I think it's important when we talk about the Domino system and that game of dominoes that we think of it in terms of what dominoes is on the international scene rather than just in the Parlor when we play it it's true that dominoes when we normally play the game one Falls and the others fall in order but when we speak of dominoes internationally when a domino Falls in one part of the world it affects through reverberation dominoes and other parts of the world as well let me put it more precisely uh in addition to Cambodia and Laos which have fallen uh we have a situation where as a result of what happened in Vietnam uh the American defeat there and withdrawal uh the victory by the Communists that the Soviet Union was emboldened and the United States in terms of its policies was discouraged and around the world in Angola mosambi Ethiopia Nicaragua the dominoes fell and I say that was a direct result of the failure in Vietnam now having said that having said that I do want to point out however that I'm delighted that in the first part of this program we saw how well those nations are doing in Southeast Asia and in Korea that shows that those who chose Freedom are doing very well they're richer those who had communism imposed upon them are much poorer I I want to go to Prime Minister lean you in Singapore for a moment to focus on the very positive nature of what's happened in this region of the world over the past 10 years in particular and ask you prime minister Lee whether if we're going to focus on the negative outfall of what happened in Vietnam you could draw our attention to the positive outfall was there any fallout brother well nobody could have predicted how it's actually turned out because nobody could have foreseen that the trends would would have been so abruptly discontinued up till Vietnam up till South Vietnam's capture the Communist block looked solid and the underlying thesis for the expansionism was that they would eat away at the edges after Vietnam they fell out not only had China and the sovet Union had a rift the South the Vietnamese decided to flout Chinese views and interests and attacked Cambodia and got themselves locked in a long struggle now with China so the whole picture altered the rules of the game so to speak their game of eating up little chunks of the world they themselves changed and we profited fortuitously they brought about a situation where they were snared in and whilst they are frittering away their resources in more conflict and War the rest of Southeast Asia zooming away more trade more Investments more growth Better Homes better life better jobs let me focus with you for a moment uh on if if if I may prime minister let me focus with you for a moment on the question of China it was after all as I mentioned at the at the top of the broadcast the fear of Chinese expansionism that Drew America into this region in the first place are we being prematurely optimistic about China's role in this region uh one cannot say what will happen after say 20 30 40 years when China has become a modern strong power but let me point out that that fear of China 15 20 years ago that led to the policy of containment was not altogether unfounded China under M and to and Li in the 1950s and 60s was an Evangelistic communist power and the Indonesian government firmly believes that it was China that helped instigate the Communist coup that failed in 1965 so the idea of of a strong communist Block in Asia with China as a motivating force to expand its borders was not all that ridiculous that they have beened sorry go ahead that they have been tarted President Nixon you spoke of the the far-reaching negative effects of the Vietnam War find for us if you can whatever far-reaching positive effects there may be from what's been happening here in Asia over the last 10 years is that having an effect in other parts of the world too I would say first the example of what has happened in Asia is one that uh creates very positive results in the other parts of the world because it proves that freedom in the broadest sent Works uh and as other nations try to find a way uh to more progress and the rest they look at what has happened in Asia and to a certain extent they will want to do likewise I would also point this out that when we look at the situation as far as the Southeast Asian countries are concerned and Korea we have to think of what would have happened had the United States not taken a stand in Vietnam we have to realize that for example when I was there in 1953 I first visited all those countries uh they were all just coming out of colonialism except for Thailand uh they were all poor uh and they were all looking for a quick way to have progress and many people uh not just those who might be Communists but many well-intentioned people uh looked at the Chinese example and said maybe this is the best way now as a result of the United States and South Vietnam holding the line in Vietnam all those years it bought time for the countries of Singapore Malaysia the Philippines Indonesia Thailand to move forward as they have and I think that is a very positive result of a very difficult War for the United States and for the people of South Vietnam all right gentlemen we're going to take a brief break we'll be back in just a moment with prime minister leanu of Singapore and former President Nixon joining us once again live from New York former president Richard Nixon and joining us from his residence in Singapore the prime minister of that country Mr Lee Kuan Yu prime minister Lee we've spent a great deal of the last 20 or 30 years analyzing this part of the world I wonder if you do us the favor of turning that around you've been an observer of events in the United States for many years and a keen one at that too much of a preoccupation with Vietnam over the past 10 years no no too much preoccupation with declining American uh will to assert herself uh to perform as she used to perform and fortunately for us a recovery in the last uh 4 and a quarter years since uh President Reagan of some of the uh confidence and Alan that used to character Iz American administrations before the debacle in Vietnam it may seem like uh a very decent I mean a rather distant series of events however when we talk about Central America but the analogy between Vietnam and Central America is constantly being made in the United States do you consider it a valid one uh yes and no yes in the sense that Foreign Wars small all if they are long drawn out and uh they're carried back to the United States on TV means the total involvement of the American people and therefore it's got to be sharp decisive and conclusive knowing that this is not uh southeast Asia the nicaraguans are not Vietnamese either in numbers or in uh the culture and being much nearer home I would have thought much more relevant to America uh immediate strategic interests and when critics of our policies in Central America these days warn against the kind of involvement in Central America that might lead to another Vietnam you would say what to them well I heard Mr George ball on radio last night in some uh program which you Mr the couple also took part and uh I felt that he was very wise but unduly wise I mean can we really predict history uh the way we extrapolate one event into another is history done the way it's written up uh nobody writing up the history of Vietnam of the last 30 40 years since 1945 could have predicted the outcome because it's not just what the Vietnamese do but it's what the Vietnamese do in the context of a changing world and how that world perceives its interest and either checkmates or facilitates Vietnamese Ambitions uh I do not know about Central America the people the culture the underlying thrusts of history there but I do not believe it is profitable for Americans to be so obsessed about failure in Vietnam as to become paralyzed from what must require American attention and initiative and if necessary uh I wouldn't say intervention but some action to prevent a gradual erosion of America's strength America's stability America's Assets in the region but I don't want uh I don't want to lose that train of thought I just want to take this momentary break to warn our Affiliates that we're going to be running a little bit over again tonight and turn immediately to President Nixon and ask you Mr President what it is in the context and with all the memory of Vietnam and with particular reference to the point that prime minister Lee made just a few moments ago namely that as we look back we could not possibly have predicted what came out after the Vietnam War what are your views on what we ought to be doing in Central America and if you will draw an analogy if you think it's appropriate to Vietnam well it's interesting to note that in the debate over El Salvador Aid to the government of Al Salvador when it was under attack and is under attack from uh communist guerillas and now in the debate over a whether we or not we Aid the contras the anti-communist against the communist government Nicaragua over and over again we hear the refra refrain uh no more vietnams we must not have El Salvador be another Vietnam we must not have Nicaragua be another Vietnam the way to avoid that is not to make the mistake we made in Vietnam that is to provide in El Salvador enough Aid arms and training and so forth uh to combat the aid being provided by Soviet block to the guerillas and then the people of El Salvador as they've presently demonstrated will be able to contain it and so so far as Nicaragua is concerned the way to avoid Americans having to be committed to Nicaragua is to provide Aid now to the anti-communist guerillas who are willing to risk their lives against a repressive communist government if we provide enough aid for them that government will be kept busy enough within its own borders that it won't make trouble with its neighbors and it will discourage also the Soviet Union from putting another base there putting it very it's it's far better to provide that Aid now to the conquerors uh than to have Americans have to go in later and remove a Soviet base Mr President with all due respect you remember history as well as I do you remember it better than I do because you lived it that is how we began in Vietnam we began first of all by underwriting the French effort we began then under President Eisenhower when you were Vice President in giving certain modest Aid to the South Vietnamese to help themselves it didn't work it didn't work because what happened was that due to the the fact that the United States was involved in the murder of DM a major Vietnam leader a strong one with faults but a strongman that from that time on the United States had to take over uh the responsibility of fighting the war itself and then as the war went on uh as we all recall uh once we had the peace agreement in 1973 that then instead of providing continu to provide as much Aid to the government of South Vietnam as the Soviet Union was providing to the North Vietnamese as a result of that failure two years thereafter the Soviet tanks rolled into Saigon what I am saying here is that we can avoid void having a commitment of American forces in Nicaragua for example if we provide adequate assistance to nicaraguans willing to fight the current communist government that's the way to keep Americans out do you really believe that if we had continued to give Aid to the South Vietnamese even if we had been able to resume bombing over the north do you really believe that the eventual outcome would have been any different I do uh I believe that we underestimate the ability and the will of the South Vietnamese to fight we have to remember uh that the last American uh left Vietnam American combat uh uh troops left Vietnam on in April of 1973 for 2 years thereafter the South Vietnamese did not lose provincial capital it was only after they lost the support uh that they needed in terms of arms and Fuel and so forth that they were overrun no I believe I know that many disagree with that but I believe that with proper support and with the threat that the United States would resume bombing if the North Vietnamese broke the peace agreement which we should have done I think under those circumstances they could have we could have uh sustained them I must tell you and we're coming rapidly I'm afraid to the end of our time but I must tell you that a couple of of the top Vietnamese leaders the foreign minister late octob both told me they did not take that threat seriously because they knew that the United States could never again uh and forget about Watergate and forget about the the Congressional edicts against getting involved again that the United States could never again and would never again become as involved in Vietnam as it had before and they said if you couldn't defeat us before what makes you think you could defeat us without that kind of Aid your reaction to that sir well I would think that that's exactly what they would say at the present time uh but I think we also have to understand when we talk about whether or not we want Nicaragua or El Salvador for that matter to become another Vietnam we have to understand the consequences uh I think we're all aware of what happened in Vietnam is a result of our failure uh 2 million people killed in Cambodia uh 600,000 at least people drowned in the South China Sea trying to escape from Vietnam in fact more people were killed in communist peace than in the anti-communist war in Vietnam now that's what we were trying to avoid and I think as [Music] both of you for joining us prime minister leanu of Singapore thank you sir President Nixon thank you

Channel: Richard Nixon Foundation

Views: 156,604

Keywords: Richard Nixon, Lee Kuan Yew (Politician), Politics (TV Genre), History, Foreign Policy (Literature Subject), International

Id: 7RDt9EghQFw

Length: 19min 34sec (1174 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 01 2015