Frankel - best racehorse of all time?

I'd like to say we're joined by a brief Scot to do exactly that breath welcome to the show thanks for joining us it's great to be discussing this is it I guess really three two days away or it is from a possibility that the greatest thing that ever trod on the turf is going to be seen for the last time it's a possibility I actually don't believe you say it's the greatest but let's let's Steve childhood that's down to you isn't it to put that put the case for it is I mean there are many choices I'll explain my reasons and I think he's he's certainly up there with them I think there's a certain cup of areas where he's probably got more times than most and of course we've got the the big matchup at the weekend series does a cobra and also Nathaniel on Graham that might flavor both of their more than Frankel heavy ground now reported at Ascot yes I mean I think the most excited he is I mean I don't believe he's put up a performance yet to match dancing Bray's arc or the gents kiss King George quite a pop in the ales he wasn't up to run even mile or half as a three-year-old I mean he was not mentally doing that so forget about what he could he didn't so I did it done that but if uncertainty we have really heavy ground if serious Dave beats Nathaniel six links for second and he beats Nathaniel six links well then you know I'm not sure where to start the Green was to the ground I think if something did not it's not to do it slightly I don't underestimate that again we're going to talk about capitals it will be mentioned a number of times to the Great's of setting in my lifetime bridges are encountered heavy ground twice in his career you want by a shoot by the head big apartments and James's Palace states and a short head and the champion stay seat open it our Great Hall studs he was not at his best dancing brave was actively kept away they were gonna put him out at the arm I wondered guy hardwood recently had they had Ranger in the week so it's a big art it's an art you shouldn't underestimate it can bring horses together heavy ground can bring horses together so it might be that he's great on it but we don't know he's never control me actually always I've always thought he might even be better on softer ground because he doesn't give spare himself this horse he really hits the ground he really goes through and when you want pretty easily on the soft but you don't know until you get the heavy look what happen to the ark and endo knows they're going to be very tired the end we don't know he really seemed to get Marquart perfectly easily but it's a mallomar laughs you don't know and he may not do it it's got to do it but you may not do it yeah it could it probably is going to be given the conditions his biggest test yet on Saturday on British champion say let's get the rate under way though we want you to join the debate you can email us on Studio Tracy okay calm we've already got several excellent emails from you you can also tweet us at racing UK comm that so basically UK underscore you racing under school UK that's the way to tweet us to get in touch let's start the debate now though and Steve first of all you're going to make the Pro Frankel case yeah in a very stiff wire referring to notes I'm not naturally this but I'm just going to go back to me honey spirit I what got me into racing into flat racing was watching the jet ski win the 1970 Triple Crown it absolutely fired my imagination from then onwards I think there's been several great auction of it we'd all agree the gin scheme self British there are Miller garb dancing brave see the Sal's Francoeur don't think anyone would argue with any of them they were all outstanding we're here to try and you know put up the KFOR which is the greatest I think on the very best form the jet skis King George because a Gerard's guineas mill we've got a sure girls Derby dancing games art Frankel's Queen and I wouldn't want to put me in order I think they were all magnificent performances absolutely outstanding where I'd argue for Frankel for sheer consistent brilliant performances I don't think there's been any horse to compare with him one after another the guineas both the Sussex takes the qe2 the LA Kings the Queen and the jab month the jab Monte were all truly stunning outstanding performances the things have been propagating the stick he's beaten with all the main stage four to one people say he hasn't beaten anything I really can't agree with that he's been 20 individual group 1 winners in his career that matches up with any of the horses that we're talking about and the other one is and the main one is not as versatile as some big initiative I've won a mile and a half dancing brave one at mile 1/2 Nijinsky won a Triple Crown now that's true but I think in it relevant it's easy to wear rose tinted glasses I think when you look back at things you know in the old days I didn't tell never missed a chance at football and Muhammad Ali that was woods absolutely invincible might yar would was even a funny comedian you look back but I I think if you actually analyze a couple a before with brilliant at one go and my other half he won and we were here having Herbert you know talking about what a stunning memory was when he was a kid and it was a fantastic they've tried the Rose only one but he beat a horse called Parnell a length of the half and there was a stewards inquiry could be hampered him there is no way that was anything like up to brigadier Gerard's best before when no India he was an outstanding milah temper nobles just like Frankel that's what his greatness depends on Nijinsky he did with a triple crown I would argue the performance in the ledger in terms of pure form with nothing special what one or two of his wins were style over substance is a magnificent horse but again I think from a form perspective you can I'd had my doubts but what I would accept in terms of versatility is dancing brave who was truly outstanding a mile in the guineas he'd be thrashed tryptych in the Eclipse he won a magnificent art one of the great races of modern times in my lifetime he probably the most versatile but he can't compare with the sheer volume of great performances and Frankel's and and I said sobbing I'm even I am I'm not old enough to properly remember rebalance eBird they may have been I don't remember in forty years I follow this ball I can't think of another horse in matches Frankel for sheer consistent brilliance and for that reason I put him another rest so you're talking about the consistent manner and dominance of his performance and you feel that the number of times that he's put up a performance like that and the quality of horses that he's beaten make him for me it would I wouldn't argue that you know so many of these great these are all these are the horse to move made racing for me there every one of them I would argue to the end of the earth how great they were and on their best performances I couldn't say I think it's I know we can you know here one for ones and one for but the basically they are felt by are the creme de la creme of horse race lose reached an area which most horses never eat all of them and on their day they were brilliant what is just amazing about franco even if you don't think he's the best you really i think should acknowledge it's just the sheer number boring borrowing thus in James's Palace states where there were reasons for every run is heads into three right I'm ignoring his dear old career every single run for three-year old onwards has been brilliant every single one he's never remotely looks like getting beaten in any way I can't I love the other horses but I can't remember any of them you know they all had the areas of vulnerability at the moment he hasn't shown it and so whether he's better or whether he's not I don't know but I think the consistent brilliance I would argue is a virtue worth sticking up for and the mile-and-a-half factor I wish he tried I'm not doing it right that's it I don't think really the job with its best but he still did it I mean he definitely did it dancing breyer you see the stars they were magnificent there my laughs you know no doubt I wish he had I mean that would be that would be perfect but yeah he did he did do them on the quarter he put out the performance as good as he put up over any distance there it's a shame I agree it's a shame but so the versatility argument I say I would favor dancing brave I personally I think for for top level performances of different distances I think he's got the edge over all roles as I've mentioned but you know he has a vulnerable moment he had his less impressive performances and he didn't do it as often as Franco has done it and not racing beyond English borders naughty pretty Shiraz Nijinsky dick Lee came from Ireland I it doesn't bother me particularly it would be nice again the our keys have been one of the easier obviously but a key middle distance race in the world and certainly in Europe and it would have been nice maybe to have a go at that but you know sugar I'll never went over there and he's not he's not allowing that I it bothers me a little really II's you know he's a luckily he's taken on the top French ocean his own backyard this week okay so if you've heard Steve's arguments now how would you in the pantheon of greatness in horse-racing order the very best horses that we've ever seen in history well this I would accept I think this is the most consistently extravagantly brilliant horse I've ever seen because he doesn't just win the length and a half they're quite a good fresh style of a substance something when when Lester was involved he would be some sweeping by we never knew how much was in there's no question of how much this horse has got in the tank he just gives you everything and he wins but what many millions of thanks it isn't accumulation of alexinoz enormous but I think it is the thing is that of course this is George best versus Lyle messy discussion and actually the Thoroughbred is getting fitter and faster only we had some of the pictures were seeing here if only we had the Kip Co timing I mean it is very revealing that when they did the the Queen Anne he went at 10:58 six furlong 1058 it was a faster individual photon energy in the king stand yes that's technical proof which is really nice to have and I was it up basically going quicker I mean Mill wreath one there he broke the record in the arc and I think 226 or something in the arc record does 223 ice news they are getting quicker but versatility is part of the deal the test of the thoroughbred racehorse the racehorse the greatest flat horse the tests that has always been historically the measurement of a three-year-old and he he chosen 302 only measure himself oh he chose they chose and appointed the right thing because he was very they've done unbelievably well Henry says on his team the horse was really pretty close to the edge as it did we're as a two-year-old and you know they've settled him and brought him on you know after he ran in the 2000 guineas remember a lot of people were maybe should who shake he says he a lot of horse like that never ever last he doesn't spare himself on the gaps I was I they go goes for it but they didn't run him in ramallah quarter or even mile or half the two years a three year old mill refund that won the not won the Congress takes by six lengths the gym crap by 12 he got beat by bigger of a mile he broke he beat the best French horse car a record time in the in Eclipse he won the King George by mile and a half by six and the arc in record time I mean as a three-year-old there's no question this horse did not measure up to what they did but he's got his foyer owner and he's getting better and I what I hope is he'll be really tested on Saturday and because this horse is a looks seven powers better gloving he but the track record last year um and the court on the firm he looked seven pounds better the heavy ground here on nine links last week here on the ganea by about ten lengths rate links and last year you were twisted overland really heavy is a really really big machine and soft and you know say he runs that seven pounds better and he normally does and soft and this force gives only seven pounds less as you say British ever I saw I was there for the clips and he was really struggled to meet girl rod I mean the idea this one of the great knots assist horses good was going on ground nearly didn't go as well anyway it's a complete cobblers really hero did not go as well on the soft is he dealing with them but he was a mighty mighty horse and again beating Brigida Gerrard and my smaller who to really outstanding horses and well proven in the guineas categorically I think that's a better performance than an excited look at them Frankel did so to be the greatest which is why I'm opposing you you've got to say not that he was as good as but he was greater than mhm I submit you cannot say he was greater than I don't you can sale are Messi was greater than George best okay you can't do the other way around but I don't have to prove the others are better than him you have to prove he's better than so you're leveling a lack of versatility that he hasn't proven as much Vista Li si yeah meal reef or beginner share odd yeah as a lack of adventure and his campaign for reasons that you've just outlined yes I'm saying that the horses meant the test is is the test for a thoroughbred is about physical Constitution and because the therapy is a very very young athlete and about its mental strength and they took the decision and I'm sure quite rightly that to risk him Darby I mean it would have been the horse of was the horse at Jason Weaver Road 1 million miles clear mr. Bannister Bailey's and fella it might be mr. Bailey's plus I mean he would have been a lot further than mr. Bailey's I mean when he came out attorney be mean they be just coming up to at the mill but he might have fallen into her almighty hole the end and it would have been absolutely ruinous so I'm sure they did the right thing that you never up some camera I quite firm quite quickly and all that sort of thing and they probably and they'd show you the right thing they had to pull him out of the arc really I think you've probably a first-timer mile a half and bottom is ground you probably had to pull him out should be pouring anticlimax hmm you think they might be viewed differently I was talking to Jamie Lynch on the phone of time familiar today had they entered for the ark and then withdrawn in when he was heavy do you think that would almost have allowed me people violence things because people have said what they were going to try it and then then it though I think they buy I think I think then you've got because you just get you know basically you get a start it says the drunken punter syndrome you're going to have what your windy you're pulling out I mean again it's a I mean all fair ran you know he offed all the soft ground in him I was at the Japan Cup one year when I think of them got Harwood's ran and it it was officially soft ground they ran to twenty-eight mile laughs I mean that's a track record lobbyists do you want to I the versatile you are gonna say is the one which is thinking vulnerable what I all I think that when they talked about it should be analyzed what all she's actually did in terms of is easy I'm not saying profitably I've seen loads of articles and loads of things I'd like sitting in like yeah he was proven a mile and a half or he did here three differently well I would argue that see the Stars guineas form he's not outstanding he was a great horse but he's forms a 210 pounds of them I love being delegated whatever he's not outstanding for I will argue brilliant man and half form is not outstanding you know it's it's beating Parnell Linton half is not incompatible cartridges it's absolute fact that support don't really struggle to do it probably should have been disqualified so the only truly versatile horse of the one we mentioned it is he was but he's again the ledger special in the world is just dominated sick mother I mean no one else I mean then one suggest him poor old Frankel should have been running today I think dance effect was truly a great in debt in terms of versatility it's the number none of the horses we mentioned can match him in this will be backed up on the official handicapper timewise 135 140 141 for is that's unheard of in racing any of those horses they didn't do it you know it might be in the ground but breezes your did struggle in in softener mill we've did get B in again is and my swallow who was just behind him got bit next time out as well I think you know this all I'm say mister I'm not anti at all the other horses I think some of the sticks that are used to beat term Frankel with aren't entirely fair they don't use the same strictness of comparison you know when reflecting on other horses that's all I just thinking it there's a bit that blows me away is how how consistently great here's I mean Christopher Dominic Gardner Hill that's wonderful coincidence he very kind of gave me a lift back from a skirt the day of the Queen Anne and of course time forment got coming on I thought a little bit opportunistically you know nicely to the press that night this is the best performance we've ever rated and Dominique in his quiet way said to me well I still not sure I can actually say that that was a better performance and dancing brave dark and he didn't say and they built a great man say publicly maybe you can tempt it out of him well we're gonna hear from it from him later on but and fully enough he does mention dancing waves Ark as protection let's have a look at that dancing Braves Ark shall we and just enjoy it once more just because breath I mean that the point that is made about this race is that it is one of the greatest fields ever assembled yes it was their voyage it's completely competitive lots of horses commit and where he is apologies to this this is about the best we can do with with the footage that we have a dancing brave has to pass the entire field here these were good horses acatenango sheriff Donnie a trip cheek was there sharra stars coming on the outside here and this is Barry who they have thought was the best was ever prosper agent here he comes look and he he devours them all he wins absolutely going away but I mean you know he doesn't win ten links but these are all proper proper group one horses definitely know and it's a mala half so it is is would he wouldn't have done that in my view mile and a half I don't think any done that but then you know would dancing brave have won the guineas I don't know I mean my son was hard to be but certainly does he put himself up it says you know it's a bit hard to know funnily enough dancing it wasn't a particularly exciting looking the video parrot Martha knew it wasn't an amazing-looking horse this horse isn't this also some people who say the monster you know they're big you know sixteen one only not as big as those handsomer see the stars he's a fantastic mover fantatic sort of predatory walk it's when he it's also when he gets into motion with that bound when he finds his stride in a race which is extraordinary I don't know if you've done some measurements but I've seen four then where they get it from but they claimed his stride is 24 feet I know talking to him Shane fencin Hall he says that when you're riding at home you normally hook coming up the county you have a natural place you put a horse behind the one in front so it doesn't touch so you're just there behind but with him you have to get another half length further back because he reaches out so far if you're not to cave you're in the same body vision as you normally are and you're clipping a horse in front

Channel: Racing TV

Views: 73,099

Rating: 4.5028248 out of 5

Keywords: greatest horse of all time, greatest horse racer of all time, frankel, frankel horse, frankel documentary, best racehorses of the 21st century, best racehorse ever, best racehorse of all time, best racehorse, best racehorse in history, horse racing greats, racing uk, racing tv, steve mellish, steve mellish horse racing, steve mellish punter, brough scott, brough scott racing, frankel vs sea the stars, brigadier gerard, brigadir gerard horse, brigadier gerard racehorse

Id: -I1ODxwm3sc

Length: 18min 20sec (1100 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 19 2012