Frank Zappa on Crossfire 1986

Crossfire on the left Tom Bron on the right Robert Novak in the crossfire Washington Times colist John Lofton and rock musician Frank Zappa good evening welcome to Crossfire what you've got here is suggestive and I don't find it objectionable but when you actually listen to the words of the songs you get a shock personally I find some of them in such bad taste as to make me physically ill and some of them I wouldn't have in the house now on the other hand do we want the government to ban the sale of records with lyrics the government doesn't like do we want the government to say this is okay but this one will have to go and who should be the government sensor whose job should it be to listen all day to dirty records and decide whether you can do you want censorship of records as is now being proposed in Maryland and in Congressional hearings or do you want to make the decision on your own take it or leave it all by yourself Bob Mr Zappo let me see if I can get your position straight are you saying that there is no filth no pornography no obscenity that should not be permitted to be sold and distributed freely in this country in the form of music videos and rock music I don't think that music qualifies as pornography and especially since this whole business started with words we're talking about words there right all the complaints were about words all right take the pornography out there is there no filth no obscenity that you think would qualify to be suppressed we're talking about words and I don't believe that there is any word that needs to be suppressed there's no scientific or uh realistic reason why you should keep people from in certain let me follow that there certain words you use that that are are to describe an act of fornication which are are brutal so well how how about putting that on the radio that's not that's not permitted to be put on the radio do you think it should be yes you think it should be on the radio absolutely and on television absolutely and and and in politics I understand because it's already in politics I think that if you use the So-Cal strong word you get your point AC cross faster and you and you can save a lot of beating around the bush why are people afraid of words well look Mr Zappa we're not talking about just words when we talk about rock videos we're talking talking about rock the whole thing is words I beg your pardon but what they're trying to they're selling it with rock trying to restrict in Maryland is also obscene rot videos no they are not they're trying to apply the obscenity language to videos into record but why do you underestimate the power of words words have uh consequences they have imp on people now I agree with you that the first line of responsibility is the family to stop the kind of garbage that we're talking about here today but good grief can't we call on our government to help us in this fight Frank I mean you have kids are you an anarchist is it the government's role to do nothing about this no I'm a conservative and you may not like that but I am and the fact of the matter is this bill that they're talking about in Maryland is stupid how so what is the function of government Frank the civil government is it to in part promote general welfare and to help protect families do you think that you're protecting Somebody by taking away seven words it's not just words it is words it's about words words also connote ideas Mr Zappa are you you for songs that portray incest as just another kind of sex and perhaps even preferable sex are you for that would you ban the mention of any incestual activities would you well why don't we make a why don't you better take a look at the Bible and see what's in there what happens after Advocate incest we're talking about advocacy Mr no we're not we're talking about words talking about content of the words oh you don't think words canote ideas H yes they can be assembled in the sentences get ideas well how about answering my question about incest do you support records that promote incest as just another kind of sex or in some instances it might even be preferable do you agree with no I don't agree with it I have no interest in incest but I don't think that anybody his right mind would desire to have the government step in to make make sure that they install a sensor board that keeps certain things from being said let me ask you something Mr because sometimes the dumbest thing that gets said makes the point for you and if a person is doing a song about incest it gives you a chance to say maybe incest is really wrong I didn't realize that incests was such a terrible problem in the United States that we suddenly needed government intervention to cure incest in America by uh keeping words off of record in America didn't used to be such a terrible problem did it Mr Zappa that's coming out in the last 20 years or so my not really not as a problem not advocated in I understand your position on government censorship but just you're you're all you're a musician you're you're a producer big man in Show Business do you think it is a good idea let's not say that the government's going to get in this all just just as a matter of taste of artistic preference you think it's a good idea to write lyrics that says incest is good for you do that make any sense well it might make sense to Prince that's his business because that's mainly the song that they're talking about don't you have an opinion on my opinion is he's got a right to sing it he's got a right to say it I got right to not that right come from Mr where does the right to Advocate incest come from song does not Advocate incest no there are songs that Advocate incest tell me them I heard you to get out more and I don't I don't think you're being candid with this you know what those signs are songs are now you said there's a right to do this where does the right come from your group was called the mothers of the invention mothers of Mothers of Invention to get out more and you're a very inventive guy you make up a lot of stuff like what was in the mind of the founding fathers would you look at the camera and tell them camera any camera directing the show yeah that's right well you certainly need some direction Mr Zappa spank me here come on what are you you into that too huh no I'm not into spanking I love it when you fro like that sure now would you tell our viewers that what the founding father I thought he was going to be the one frothing today I'm glad that you're again Frank wrong again now would you tell us excellent thank you very much now would you look in the camera and tell them with straight face that you think the founding fathers had in mind the kind of garbage you sing and write when they drafted the first amendment do you really believe that Mr Zappa I don't think it applies the founding fathers for one thing kept slaves and take a look at what Benjamin Franklin used to do over at the hellfire club but you have repeated exactly a bunch of swell guys I think they had some good things in mind but we have a document the letter of the law let's use the letter of the law and Inter wait a minute wait AE wait a minute it is relevant because you have repeatedly in opposing even ratings for rock music you have repeatedly cited the Constitution and the First Amendment do you think the founding fathers really had the first amendment that they gave us the First Amendment to defend songs that glorify Satanism and incest and suicide you believe that absolutely you really believe that I believe it you're an idiot then idiot tell you what kiss my take your teeth out take your teeth out let's call it come on let's come on one thing you did I didn't think you do is you duck a question I thought you ask I understand your position in the government I understand you have an Absolut position on the First Amendment a lot of people have an Absolut position but I asked your question and you ducked it I want I want you to tell me if you think that the lyrics saying that incest is a good thing have any artistic value or or are in good taste or if you if you approve you must have some some standards of your own I'm not talking about the government you ask me for my opinion I don't enjoy that kind of material I'm not here to sell records for Prince or anybody else but you defend it being sold don't you yes I do you're part of the problem don't no John don't you think it would be a good thing to say to some of these people to cool it no it's not my it's not my job what is your job my job is to represent myself what is your job you once wrote a song called we're only in it for the money it's not a song it's the name of an album you got to get out more yeah how much money you made pedaling this stuff Mr Zappa millions of dollars yeah millions of dollars Mr L all right look it seems to me Mr zepper that you've got to ask these people both of them are on you what they he's accusing me of doing something that is similar to what uh that is being argued about my lyrics aren't in question here really they're not what would what would you propose Mr Lon as a the means of uh of censorship well I said I agree with Mr Zappa that the first line of defense and responsibility is the parents but what I do not agree with is that the parents have to stand alone and we are not entitled to call up on our government to help us in the fight against kind of I mean John what government censor what government censor is going to decide for you it's not Tom I've heard you say repeatedly on this show that we are our government that we're allowed to call on our government well you have to have a man who is the cator or a woman they have to decide this ofon can hear and this Lon cannot hear Tom it would work the way the uh implementation of any law works you pass a law it has words in it and then the elected representatives of the people try their best to apply it it's a way you do it with everything else will they apply it perfectly no but we're entitled to use the force of our civil government uh to help protect our families How Could You oppose that does the government have any purpose Frank yeah it has a number of I'm not going to give you a civics lesson here but I tell you one thing we must not see eye to eye on the idea of a government that must forbid things in order to what is the government's role you've told me several times what should how about National Defense consider this National Defense pal our families are under attack from people like you with these lyrics John you don't have to buy them Z could I make a statement about National Defense the biggest threat to America today is not communism it's moving America toward a fascist theocracy and everything that's happened during the Reagan Administration is steering us right down that pipe oh Mr Mr Zappa do you do you really think I mean all kidding aside in this country with the permissiveness that we are moving toward a fascist theocracy anything do do you think things like this would smile again when we when we were 20 when we were kids you're about my age maybe well I'm 55 do you think when when I was a kid that they would permit songs like that to be sold I mean permissiveness is the game I mean I mean you're not you're not really serious if if you're saying we're going toward a fascist the that's right we are wait a minute and what way give me give me wait wait wa wait one example one example of a fascist theop when you have a government that prefers a certain moral code derived from a certain religion and that moral code turns into legislation to suit one certain religious point of view and if that code happens to be very very right-wing almost toward the till of the hunt well then you are an anarchist every form of civil government is based on some kind of morality Frank Morality In terms of behavior you're not in terms of theology well of course but look I mean I couldn't believe in your okay wait a minute gentlemen we we uh we have to take a break now and we'll be back with John Lon and Frank Zappa talking about rock music I think after these messages is a producer and and musician who has testified before Congress that he does not think that rock music Dirty lyrics and all should be CED or rated John Lofton takes the other view Mr Lofton yes uh you don't have to buy this you know you don't have to buy these these this music with dirty words well I guess my concern extends beyond my own family beyond my own children I'm concerned about the whole society the whole country other people's children other people's families can you control what your children come on no not completely but I try I agree and I want to say for the third time I agree with Frank that that is the first line of responsibility but you can't even control what your children no as they get older it's very difficult but you can you can control what they listen to in the house and the tell me how you they're rarely in the house you hear it so you just go shut themselves up in the room and you can't hear it I hear it I turn it I go up and I throw the record away you can't even hear half the things I tell you you can't hear those those things all you're trying to get around is the fact that you have an individual responsibility and I think Mr zap is right that's as far as it can go but you know one of the things that interests me is is the seemingly totally different worlds that you and I live in Mr Z for example you told this hearing last September that in America quote there is a tendency to hide sex unquote that is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard sex is everywhere in America it's on TV radio videos advertising what do you mean we hide sex in America you do hide sex in America because given the choice between putting erotic sex into a television show or putting violence usually it is the violence that is opted for how about both putting both in or you mean in combination I mean both I mean that the the the the television is full of sex right now it's not really sex it's full of titilation how about advertising is that full of sex it's titilation m Mr Z but when when somebody mentioned the the the videos you you said hey no this is not why you why don't you want to talk about the videoos the reason I don't want to talk about the videos is the issue came up over the lyrics and what they've done in trying to promote the issue if if Rock videos did not exist they wouldn't have had those flashy little bumpers to put on before each of the local news shows when they would do a story on this you by Rock videos in that they should be censored no I don't I just think that you shouldn't even discuss them when the topic is words but but I mean we can discuss anything we want but this but you think anything goes on the Rock vide just like anything goes on the lyrics sure I I'm told that there is a rock video that it's about to come out that has a a a school teacher undressing in front of a student found already it's one of the ones they use for bumpers they showed at the Senate hearing it's called hot for teacher and the group is Van Halen what do you think of that I think it's amusing amusing that you think K should that why do you think K tell people a little bit he thinks it's amusing that you might have a grade school class that is hot for teacher in a sexual way why is that amusing why shouldn't it be amusing you're not smiling you don't look too happy about the why should I smile sitting here with you what's uh well you could fake it I like him better than rough idea of what's going on it sure does but of course I had that before I came here what's amusing about it that is amusing to the people who like the concept of Here Comes the teacher you expect the teacher to be sour the music starts the teacher takes off her clothes and she is wearing some kind of a bathing suit like in a beauty contest and does a dance on the desk and the kids look up and they are having a good time well that's that's real laugh rot Frank now look one of the things I don't understand to someone who writes why you have repeatedly denigrated words and said well something's just words you know Adolf Hitler used words very effectively it was called the lie and what it resulted in was 6 million Jews being put into ovens now why do you say that words aren't important and don't have consequences I didn't say the words weren't what do you mean when you say just words this argument basically is about the seven dirty words that the FCC complains about and that's what it is and I don't see any reason to keep people from hearing those syllables put together those are not magic words that's not Abracadabra you're going to turn into something they you think certainly they do and it depends on how they used and in what context in fact the the big one the one that starts with the F has maybe 15 different ways in which can be used in language Mr Z you you were talking about the the social background of the founding father so you're a student of American sociology but let let me ask you this do you think this country you get around this country a lot I'm sure do you think that the uh the the lyrics of these of these songs reflect the real spirit's country it reflects certain aspects of the spirit of this country it does you think it does and see if you don't like the um Spirit then change the things that make the spirit happen other words if you have kids that are rebellious and you have kids who are hopeless you have kids who go to drugs then give them something to hope for like what if what would you tell a kid you ought to hope for nowadays Frank well I tell kids and I've been telling kids for quite some time as first register to vote and second soon as you're old enough run for something and you really think that's going to give kids hope to tell them to go register for vote Mr Za when you well I don't know whether it makes them commit suicide but I think it gives them a little bit more hope Mr Z when you were testifying in Annapolis yesterday I or this week any rate they had some kids from New York picking outside who were from a school for the mentally Disturbed and they said that they all the rock music almost grew in their life rock music really Disturbed them didn't that give you some pause as to maybe you were making that you you might be in error on on this question well see your in error is to where those kids came from it's not a school for the mentally Disturbed it is's a place called Freedom Village run by a man named Pastor Fletcher a Brothers a Christian organization he collects money for it they have a farm in Upstate New York I've dated Pastor Brothers on the radio before I've also seen his literature basically what he has done is taken the children who have come to his uh place for rehabilitation I don't know where he gets them who sends them but he carts them around the country in the Freedom Village Bus and makes them go in and testify as to all the bad things that happened to them before he they came to his place and then he connects it to rock music you know wait a minute but let me tell you some of the things that are included in this man's literature he sends out this folder it's about this thick it has a list of different people in rock and roll their names their records and their crime against humanity so to speak some of the people who are included in this list are Stevie Wonder and his crime is that he has an album that mentions astrology in his folder there are two mentions of astrology and maybe three or four mentions of Hinduism he cites the who because they had a Hindu prayer on one of their albums let me ask you about something you said yeah I want to talk now you've talked for a little while okay I think your answer about where hope is supposed to lie shows the bankruptcy of what once used to be the radical message we have millions of kids in this country Frank who may be suicidal who see no meaning in life see no hope in life and you're going to tell them that the pop is in registering to vote Frank are you serious are you trying to dissuade them from registering to vote are you trying to dissuade those kids from running for office is that what I mean we're talking about kids who don't know the meaning of life Frank tell them toot are out of we want to thank Mr Zappa for being our guest on CrossFire and John Lofton for being our guest on CrossFire Bob and I'll be back in just a [Music] minute B I take it you don't like the records any more than I do but who's to be the censor should you be well I don't know about that either I'm a First Amendment man but I I'll tell you what I do know Tom and I think you'll agree with me the idea that parents are going to tell their kids what they what they can and what they can't hear in this day and age ridiculous I mean they they're no more able to censor their kids and the government is than you want the government to censor everybody else no some of them will get the records but I just don't think it's possible to draw the line for somebody to sit Stevie Wonder is all right and this guy I tell you where the censorship should come from it should come from the industry and they should have a little more self- placing and a little more self-control in my opinion I think that's a good idea from the left I'm Tom Braden good night for crossb right I'm Robert Novak join us again next time for another edition of Crossfire if you would like to comment on tonight's program write to CNN Crossfire 111 Massachusetts Avenue Northwest Washington DC 2000 1 [Music]

Channel: Chris Casady

Views: 368,665

Keywords: Frank, Zappa, robert, Novak, crossfile

Id: B9856_xv8gc

Length: 21min 18sec (1278 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 22 2006