Frank Abagnale - FedTalks 2013

afternoon is my pleasure to be here but to be honest with you normally when I walk up to the podium to speak it's always about fraud and cybercrime and counterfeiting and identity theft and embezzlement but today they've asked me to do something totally different and that is to talk a little bit about my life so I'll kind of be like the entertainment for the noon break as many of you know I've had a famous writer write a book about my life a great film director make a movie about my life a great musical director make a musical on Broadway that won the Tony about my life and a popular television show on TV about my life interesting out that those very creative people most of them have never met me personally so I assume that they're telling my story from what would be their point of view so I thought today I would just actually tell you the story from my point of view I was raised just north of New York City in Westchester County in New York I was actually one of four children in the family the so called middle child of the four I was educated there by the Christian Brothers of Ireland in a private Catholic school called Iona where I went to school from kindergarten to high school by the time I had reached a tenth grade in the age of sixteen my parents after 22 years of marriage one day decided to get a divorce unlike most divorces where the children are usually the first to know my parents were very good about keeping that a secret I remember being in the tenth grade when the father walked in the classroom and asked her brother to excuse me from class when I came out in the hallway the father handed me my books and told me one of the brothers were driving me to the county seat why Plains New York or I would meet my parents and they would explain what was going on I remember the brother dropped me at the steps of a big stone building and told me to go on up the steps and that my parents would be waiting for me in the lobby I remember climbing the steps wondering where I was so our sign on the window the said family court but really didn't understand what that meant when I arrived in the lobby my parents were not there but I was ushered into the back of an immense courtroom where my parents were standing before a judge I couldn't hear what the judge was saying nor my parents response but eventually the judge saw me at the back of the room and he motioned me to approach the bench I walked up the stand in between my parents I remember distinctly that the judgment looked at me he never acknowledged I was standing there he just read from his papers and said that my parents were getting a divorce and because I was 16 years of age I would need to tell the court which parents I chose to live with I started to cry so I turned and ran out of the courtroom the judge called for a 10-minute recess but by the time my parents get out to the lobby I was gone my mother never saw me again for about seven years until I was a young adult contrary to the movie my father never saw me nor ever spoke to me again in the mid-1960s running away was very popular thing for young people a lot of them got caught up in haight-ashbury the hippie scene the drug scene instead I took a few belongings from my home packed them in a bag boarded what was then the New Haven and Hartford railroad for the short train ride down to Grand Central Terminal in New York my father did own a stationary store but actually in Manhattan located on the corner of 40th and Madison and like all of us in the family we had to work in the store so I made deliveries from my dad I knew the city very well so naturally I started looking for the same type of work there are a lot of signs in the windows stockboy delivery boy part-time I'd walk in and apply so tell me young man hole do you 16 how far to go in high school tenth grade I'll hire you and I went to work for a small amount of money a few hours a day but I soon realized I couldn't support myself on that amount of money I also realized that as long as people believed I was 16 years old they weren't going to pay me any more money at 16 I was six foot tall I've always had a little gray hair my friends in school said that once a week when we dressed from Mass I look more like a teacher than a student so I decided to lie about my age in New York we had a driver's license at 16 back then they didn't have a photo on them just an IBM card so I altered one digit of my date of birth I was actually born in April of 1948 but I dropped that four converted it two or three and that made me 10 years older or 26 years old I walked around applying for the same type of work people gave me a little more money few more jobs but even then it was difficult to make ends meet one of the few things I had taken when I left home was a checkbook my father had opened a checking account for me at a small community bank in Mong in New York had little money in the account so every so often I would write a check to supplement my income $10 $20 a funds were there the checks were good but it was my friends my peers who would say to me you know you're the only guy no walks into a bank in the middle of Manhattan you have no account there you don't know a soul you talk to somebody behind a desk and they okay your check oh well my checks are good if I walked in that Bank they wouldn't touch my check you walk in they don't bat an eye years later reporters would write and speculate that that was my upbringing mannerisms dress appearance speech whatever it was was very easy to do so consequently when the money ran out I kept writing those checks of course checks started to bounce please started looking for me as a runaway so I thought maybe it was a good time to start thinking about leaving New York City but I was quite apprehensive about going to Chicago or Miami when did if take cash in New York check on a New York driver's license in Miami as quickly as they did in Manhattan I was walking up 42nd Street when afternoon about 5 o'clock in the evening 16 years old pondering all of these things when I started to approach the front door of an old hotel that used to be there called the Concorde hotel now that Grand Hyatt as I was just about to pass the front door I'll stepped in Eastern airline flight crew onto the sidewalk couldn't help but notice a captain the copilot the flight engineer about three or four flight attendants dragging the bank's the curb to load them in a van to take them to the airport as they loaded the van I thought to myself that's it I could pose as a pilot I could travel all over the world for free and I probably could get just about anybody anywhere to cash a check for me so I walked up the street little further to 42nd and Park I went to cross over but I heard a huge helicopter so I looked up and there was New York Airways landing on the roof of the Pan Am building Pan Am the nation's flag carrier the airline that flew around the world I thought what a perfect airline to use so the next day I placed a phone call to the executive corporate offices of Pan Am when the switchboard was ringing I had absolutely no idea what I was going to say when they answered Pan American Airlines good morning can I help you yes ma'am I like to speak to somebody in the somebody in the purchasing department purchasing one moment the clerk came on I said yes said may be cannot me my name is John black I'm a co-pilot with the company based out of San Francisco been with the company about seven years never had anything like this come up before what's the problem well we flew a chip in here yesterday we're going out today yesterday I sent my uniform out through the hotel to have a dry clean now the hotel and the cleaner said they can't find it Here I am with the flight in about four hours no uniform no Java spare uniform certainly back home in San Francisco but I never get it here in time for my flight do you understand that this will cost you the price in uniform not the company I understand hold on I'll be right back came back and said my supervisor said you need to go down to the well-built uniformed company on Fifth Avenue there aren't supplier I'll call them and let them know you want to on your way well that's exactly what I wanted to know so I went down to the well-built uniformed company little fella mr. rose and fitted me out in the uniform there were black gabardine the three gold stripes on the arm the grey hair I certainly looked old enough to be the pilot when he was all done is that how much Turley er with uniforms two hundred eighty six dollars said no problem I write you a check I know we can't take any checks oh well then I'll um I'll just pay your cash oh no we can't accept cash need to fill out this computer card then in these boxes put your employee number and we build this back into uniform allowance comes out of your next Pan Am paycheck that's even better go ahead and do that New York had two airports LaGuardia in Kennedy LaGuardia was 20 minutes from Manhattan Kennedy was 50 so naturally LaGuardia being the closer the two that's where I went I spent most of the morning walking around LaGuardia trying to figure out now that I had the uniform how the hell do you get on these planes well I got a little hungry about lunchtime so I walked in the luncheonette sat down at the counter and ordered a sandwich moments later a TWA crew walked in flight attendants sat in the booth pilots up at the counter on either side of me captain right next to me now back before deregulation of the airlines airline people thought of themselves as just one big family so they didn't hesitate a moment to talk to each other the captain kind of leaned over a young man as Pan Am doing doing just fine captain tell me what's Pan Am doing out here at LaGuardia Pan Am doesn't fly into LaGuardia they only fly into Kennedy well I picked up on that right away yeah we came into Kennedy at a shore labor came over to visit some friends in my matter of fact I'm on my way back to Kennedy now so tell me young man what type of equipment are you on now airline people have a lot of jargon for things that one of them is they never call a plane a plane or an aircraft they call it equipment and what type of equipment you're on meant what type of plane do you fly back then a dc-8 a 707 of course I didn't know that and I thought what type of equipment equipment him on as this stool they must mean what type of equipment is on the planes I fly south or where they've got the wings and I got the engine they always had a sticker on the engine who manufactured the engine so I said yes General Electric all three pilots kind of just stopped eating and leaned over cabins said oh really what do you fly washing machine so I knew I say the wrong thing out the door I went everybody had an airline ID card plastic laminated card much like a driver's license today yet without the ID card the uniform was worthless I went back to Manhattan pretty discouraged thinking where would I come up with a Pan American airline corporate ID I was sitting in a hotel room I noticed a big thick New York Manhattan yellow pages so I flipped him open and looked under the word identification there were three or four pages of companies who made convention badges metal badges plastic badges police badges fire badges hard to call around and finally one company said listen most of those airline IDs manufactured by Polaroid 3m company need to call one of them finally got the 3m company on the phone in Manhattan yeah we manufacture Pan Am's identification system along with the number of other carriers how come that a I'm a purchasing officer for a major US carrier I'm in New York just for the day we're getting ready to expand our routes hire a lot of new employees go to a formal ID we're very impressed with this Pan Am format wondered if I came by your office this afternoon just briefly we could discuss quantity and price by all means come on by so I went by dressed in the suit and sales were up open the book we do United Delta National Eastern Pan Am Pan Am we like this Pan Am format when if you might have a sample I could bring back sure I'll be right back and he brought me back a 5x7 glossy piece of paper with a picture of an ID card blown up in the middle of it someone else's picture in the picture John Doe for a name and in bold red ink across the front this is a sample only I said no I'm afraid this one do you know I need to bring back an actual physical card and by the way what is all this equipment on the floor oh now we don't just sell this card we sell this system camera or laminate I see we'd have to buy all of this absolutely well tell you what since we have to buy it I wanted to just demonstrate how it works and use me fine ever see right here took my picture man at the card I was going down the elevator studying the card had a blue border across the top about a quarter of an inch and Pan Am's color blue but not a single thing on the card said Pan Am no logo no insignia no company name this was a plastic card like a credit card you couldn't type on it couldn't write on it couldn't print on it discouraged I put it in my pocket headed back to the hotel so it's walking back I noticed I had passed a hobby shop so I turned around and walked back excuse me sir I saw a lot of models who sell models of commercial jetliners sure over there and I bought a model of a Pan Am 707 cargo jet for about 2.40 sin took her back to my room open the box through all the parts out but there at the bottom of the box for the sheet of decals that went on the model and when soaked in a glass of water the little Pan Am globe that would went on the tail of the plastic plane went perfect up at the top of the plastic card and the word Pan Am and the special styling of graphics that would have went on the fuselage went perfect across the top of the cart the clear decal on the laminated plastic made a beautiful identification card Pan Am says they estimate that between the ages of 16 and 18 I flew more than a million miles for free board in more than 260 commercial aircraft in more than 26 countries around the world Pan Am says keep in mind that though Frank Abagnale did in fact pose as one of our pilots he never once stepped on board one of our aircraft that's true I never flew on Pan Am because I was afraid that someone might say to me you know I'm based in San Francisco I've been out there 19 years I don't recall ever meeting you before or someone might say you know your ID card is not exactly like my ID card so instead I flew on everyone else if wanted to go somewhere I literally just walked out to the airport and looked on the board United flight 800 to Chicago then it went downstairs to the door marked United operations and walked in the operations clerk a Pan Am we do for you I wonder if the jump seats open on 800 I need to did head to Chicago jump seat it's opened this evening like to get a pink slip pass and I'd give my I deed write me out of passed I'd walk out handed to the flight attendant she'd opened the door to the cockpit and I'd step in they had a captain a co-pilot a flight engineer and a seat behind the captain called a jump seat where pilots dead head on company time now because pilots loved to talk shop once you picked up that jargon it was the same conversation over and over and over so I just stepped on board him Jim Bob Davis be riding Chicago on the taxi out always the same question so Bob how long you been with Pan Am been flying about seven years what position you fly a right seat which is airline terminology for a co-pilot what type of equipment are you on had that one down perfect matter of fact whatever they flew I didn't fly so I no problems with that when arrived in Chicago I'd go by the Pan Am ticket counter just to get the intention of the passenger service reps go to help you excuse me where do we lay over here the dead it a trip for somebody got ill never laid over in Chicago so we as a perma house Hilton downtown catch the crew bus low level door three up I go down the Palmer House Hilton walk-in in on the corner of the registration desk was a little sign said airline cruise that was a three-ring binder you've signed in reference your flight number showed your ID that stayed two or three days and Pan Am would be direct billed from my room in my meal I also could cash a personal check at the front desk of the hotel because unemploy the airline airline at a contract at the hotel and as a courtesy that cash your check up to $100 but then I found out that every airline honors every other airline employees personal check or reciprocal agreement still practice today in 2013 so at at DCA a delta flight attendant can walk up to an American ticket counter show her Delta ID and cash a personal check up $200 and vice versa of course when I found that out I'd go out to JFK only I'd go to everybody Northeast National it would take me a good eight hours go to every building all the way around the whole airport by the time I got all the way around the other end in the airport at least eight hours have gone by what do you have in eight hours shift change new people so I go all the way back around the other way I made a great deal of money the only reason I quit at eighteen is the FBI issued a John Doe warrant for interstate transportation of fraudulent checks a federal offense the John Doe warrant meant the FBI didn't know my identity in the warrant the FBI said based on interviews with people I had contact with I was approximately thirty years old I was 18 had a great deal of money so hungry uniform up and moved to Atlanta Georgia and Atlanta I moved into a very Swank singles complex that had just been built there called the River Bend Apartments on the application for the lease there were a lot of questions for a teenage boy one of them was occupation I began to write down airline pilot but the next question said soup' employers name supervisor name telephone contact I thought to myself I'll need to come up with something that would be impossible to check out yet something that would justify why driving an expensive car were expensive clothes don't work much so I wrote down the word doctor first thing came to my mind nothing else but at a very apartment very inquisitive apartment manager also I see you you're a doctor yes ma'am what type of doctor are you well I'm a um I'm a medical doctor however I'm not practicing medicine right now I left my practice out in Los Angeles to come to Atlanta to invest in some real estate I have how interesting we'll tell me what type of medical doctor are you and I figured being a singles complex pediatrician would be pretty safe so I moved in dr. Frank Williams pediatrician everybody called me doc always the typical questions at the pool so doc why'd you go to medical school Columbia University in New York would you serve your internship Harvard Children's Hospital out in LA once in a while when the guys would come by hey Paul hey Doc look at my leg I don't know what I did to it look at this Paul I can examine your leg you need to go to your doctor and have a look at that when the girls came by us gave them a thorough examination since I was young but not stupid I was living there about two or three months everything was going great one afternoon there was a knock on the door very distinguished gentleman mid-50s standing there that's ahead of you you're dr. Williams yes my name is Gordon just moved in the apartment down below one to come up introduce myself a new neighbor come on in I'm not only a new neighbor understand your pediatrician yes I'm the chief resident pediatrician of the County Hospital up the street dr. Gordon was going through a divorce he just separated from his wife he was very upset very lonely every day on the way the car out to the pool he'd stop you and after a minute or two about the weather he'd start speaking medical terminology not being able to converse with him I in turn would cut him short but I knew eventually he'd get suspicious determined not to move every day I went to Emory University's medical library every day I read the daily journals from Johns Hopkins from the Mayo Clinic every day I took a certain part of the journal memorized it in detail and every night when dr. Gordon pulled in his parking slot and this is without exaggeration every night I was sitting on his doorstep it uh about this new theater using up it meant what is it tonight aggravated I follow him into his apartment he'd go into his bedroom I go in his bedroom sit on the bed be in the kitchen I'd follow him back and forth in the bathroom I talk to the door pretty soon he come on a dock I don't have time to talk to you right now I gotta go guy start to avoid two-one-one afternoon I received a phone call from the hospital administrator who is not a physician but the administrator of the hospital dr. Gordon suggested I give you a call said you'd be more than happy to help us out what's the problem on the midnight Tate shift to have a resident supervisor a number of interns nurses on his shift just been notified of a death and his family he's returning to the West Coast tomorrow for about 10 days at Georgia law requires a house doctor on duty be a full practitioner or a specialist dr. Gordon said you had a great deal of free time you'd be more than happy to cover the shift in an administrative capacity there's no way I could do that why not I'm not licensed to practice medicine in the state of Georgia just the state of California where I own my residency all the red tape for 10 days I know red tape we bring it before the vendor Cove you board tomorrow morning to issue a temporary certificate and you can start tomorrow night now being one who hates the pass of a challenge I couldn't help but give it a shot I went down to the hospital during my entire stay there no one ever doubted for a second I was not a doctor when the doctor returned I was relieved and left the hospital I did pass the bar on the state of Louisiana not in two weeks as a movie implies but in two months by taking the prep course and ended law student would take to prepare themselves for the bar at the time Louisiana did not require a law degree to take the bar I passed the bar I went to work for Attorney General PF grimian in the Civil Division of a state court where I spent about a year no one the wiser on my own I resigned and left you know like any criminal sooner or later you get caught and I was no exception to that rule I was arrested actually just once in my life by the French police at the age of 21 in a small town in southern France the friendship pleased arresting me actually on an Interpol warrant issued by the Swedish police who are looking for me for forgery and believed that I was living in southern France when taken into custody by the French police they soon realized I had forged checks all over France so they refused to honor the extradition and the warrant they later convicted me of forgery and sent me to French prison I served my time in a place called the Maison des array the house of arrest in a small town in southern friends called Pepin Yong Steven Speilberg told Barbara Walters it was extremely important for me to go back to that prison to the exact cell he was in and reconstructed according to the logbooks during his stay there he said that consisted of a blanket on the floor the hole in the floor to go to the bathroom no plumbing no electricity he said that I entered the prison at 198 pounds left the prison according to the logbooks at 109 pounds when my sentence was over in France I was extradited to Sweden where I was convicted of forgery and sent to a Swedish penitentiary in Malmo Sweden when my prison term was up in Sweden US federal authorities took custody of me returned me to the United States and eventually a United States federal judge sentenced me to 12 years in federal prison I served for of those 12 years at a federal prison in Petersburg Virginia when I was 26 years old the US government offered to take me out of prison on the condition as part of my parole I work with an agency of the federal government the remainder my sentence or until my prole have been satisfactorily completed I agree in February of this year I celebrated 37 years working with the FBI which I do today I make my home in Charleston South Carolina thank you I live in Charleston with my wife my one and only wife for 36 years and my three sons my youngest boy graduated from the University of Beijing in China went on to get his master's degree at the University of Beijing he reads writes and speaks Chinese fluently he works for an American company in Beijing he's 29 years old my middle son graduated from University of Nevada and Las Vegas his degree was in business my wife owns a company in South Carolina he manages that business and property for her my oldest son who's 33 now graduated from University of Kansas he went on to local I will loyola school of law in Chicago got his law degree passed the bar there went on to make his dad very very proud he's an FBI agent in the Baltimore field office in Baltimore as many of you know as many of you know I had very little to do with the movie I received no money from movies Broadway musical the television show white collar all of those things bring me no residuals because of my original agreement with the government some 37 years ago I am very blessed that I've had some incredible people bring my story to the screen and to Broadway and tell my story in their own way so my family and I feel very blessed by that but needless to say I get a lot of emails every day they come from all over the world to come from people as young as eight years old to people as old as 80 they're probably seeing movie the movie for the first time on television some of the emails people write and say you know you were brilliant you were absolute genius I was neither I was just a child had it been brilliant had it been a genius I don't know that I would have found it necessary to break the law in order to just simply survive and while I know that there are people fascinated by what I did almost 50 years ago as a teenage boy I've always looked upon what I did is something that was immoral illegal unethical and a burden live with every single day of my life there are many who write and say well you know you were certainly gifted that I was I was one of those few children who got to grow up in the world with the daddy the world is full of fathers but there are very few men worthy of being called daddy by their child I had a daddy loved his children more neill of life itself my father had three boys and a daughter he was six foot three every night at bedtime he'd walk into your room he dropped down on one knee kiss you on the cheek pulled the cover up he'd put his lip up on your hair lobe and he'd whisper in your ear I love you I love you very much he never missed a night as I grew older I sometimes fell asleep before I got home but always woke up the next morning new hip and by my bedside years later my older brother joined me in my room he was six four in the Marine Corps but when he came home on leave my father would walk around to his bed hug him kisum where in theory loved him when I was 16 years old I was just a child all 16 year olds are just children as much as we like them to be adults they're just children and like all children they need their mother and they need their father all children need their mother and their father all children are entitled to their mother and their father and though it is not popular to say so divorce is a very devastating thing for a child to deal with and then have to deal with the rest of their natural life for me a complete stranger said I had to choose one parent over the other there was no choice so I ran how could I tell you my life was glamorous I cried myself to sleep till I was 19 years old I spent every birthday Christmas Mother's Day Father's Day in a hotel room somewhere in the world by myself when I was sick I took care of myself the only people that associated with me were the people who believed me to be their peer 10 years older than I actually was I never got to go to a senior prom High School football game or even share a relationship with someone my own age I always knew I'd get caught only a fool would think otherwise the law sometimes sleeps but the law never dies I was caught I went to some very bad places my boys have grown up asking their mother why is it that dad gets up in the middle of night and goes down the TV room because he doesn't turn the TV on he just sits there all night because there are things you can't forget things you're not meant to forget while I was sitting in that pitch-black cell in France my father 57 was climbing the subway stairs in New York as he did every day only on this particular day he tripped he was in great physical shape he just slipped he reached his arm out to break his fall he slipped again hit his head on a railing land at the bottom of the step he was dead I didn't know he was dead I was sitting in that cell thinking about him how much I couldn't wait to see him hold him hug him kiss him tell him how sorry I was but I never got the opportunity to do that I was very fortunate because I was brought up in a great country where everyone gets a second chance I owe my country 800 times more than I could ever repay it for the opportunities it's given me these past 37 years that is why I'm at the FBI today 26 years beyond my legal obligation to do so I have turned down three pardons from three sitting presidents of the United States because I do not believe nor will I ever believe that a piece of paper will excuse my actions that only in the end my actions will 36 years ago on an undercover assignment in Houston Texas I met my wife when the assignment was over I broke protocol to tell her who I really was didn't have a dime to my name I eventually asked her to marry me in switches of her parents she did I could sit here and tell you I was born again I saw the light prison rehabilitated me but the truth is God gave me a wife she gave me three beautiful children she gave me a fam and she changed my life she and she alone everything I have everything I've achieved Who I am today is because the love of a woman and the respect three boys have for their father there comes a time in all of our lifetimes that we grow up and we have children and as every parent in this room knows whether your child is three months old or 33 years old when you lay a head on a pillow at night no matter where that pillow is and you're just about to close your eyes the last thing you think about the last thing you worry about are your children so if you still have your mother you still have your father you give him a hug you give him a kiss you tell them you love them into those men in the audience both young and old I would remind you what it truly is to actually be a man it has absolutely nothing to do with money achievements skills accomplishments degrees professions positions a real man loves his wife a real man is faithful to his wife and a real man next to God in his country put his wife and his children as the most important thing in his life Steven Spielberg made a wonderful film but I've done nothing greater nothing more rewarding nothing more worthwhile nothing that's brought me more peace more joy more happiness more content in my life than simply being a good husband a good father and when I strive to you every day of my life a great daddy god bless you and thanks for having me

Channel: FedScoop

Views: 1,020,049

Rating: 4.9471712 out of 5

Keywords: Catch Me If You Can, Frank Abagnale, FedTalks 2013, frank abagnale, frank abagnale (author), frank abagnale jr., frank w. abagnale, frank abagnale jr, frank abagnale 2012, frank abagnale true story, frank abagnale interview, frank w. abagnale big think, frank w. abagnale bigthink, frank w. abagnale interview, frank william abagnale

Id: iJIc16aqpO8

Length: 30min 44sec (1844 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 20 2013

Reddit Comments

[u/arbaard]

Hey, you should post this to /r/lectures.

[u/Ravensavage]

What an amazing life, and an amazing man.

[u/wat_is_csing]

What a great Daddy. Excuse me a sec while I dry off my face

[u/PelicansAreStoopid]

How do we know he's not bullshitting?

[u/TheDFR]

The movie doesn't do justice to his story, read the book.

[u/forestdragon04]

He came to my company and spoke a few years ago - such an interesting story

[u/matolandio]

Met his son once. Awesome dude. If you ever get the chance, ask him to tell the tiger story.

[u/jaredwatkins]

I love this movie.

[u/reeddombrowski]

Member ???? Oh yea I member !