Food Addiction Recovery Week-DAY 9 |Tips and Tricks for Beating Food Addiction w/ Joel Fuhrman, M.D.

hey everyone and welcome to day nine the final day of food addiction recovery week on chef aj live we save the best for last we have a heavy a heavy hitter in the field of beating food addiction dr joel fuhrman i'm sure he needs no introduction but in case this is the first video you've seen of him he is a multiple new york times best-selling author i believe seven times now but in the plant-based space he's really one of the few that really not only understands and acknowledges that food addiction is a disease but actually treats it and has written a wonderful book about it called fast food genocide which i really recommend you read and i will link to both in the show notes and in the chat one of my favorite people to interview a wealth of information please welcome dr joel fuhrman it's always great to talk to you thank you always have fun talking to you too well you know dr fuhrman you probably know this but not everybody believes in food addiction as a disease well food addiction is you know look food addiction is ubiquitous the whole population's addict is addicted i mean most the vast majority of people are thinking this something i mean i don't know whether it's semantical argument whether you call it a disease or not you know whether you call being overweight or disease eating junk food or disease food addiction disease i don't i don't really need to get into that a discussion what we call it but what we know is it's hurting people's lives and the drive to ovary calories occurs because we don't eat most people don't eat the amount of calories they need they recreate with food and they use food in a self-destructive manner so whether you call it they're self-destructing they're harming their own future health longevity and mental function with food and i call it food addiction and a person chooses not to you know it's fine with me do you think if it had a fancier name that it might be more well accepted and something that like doctors could monetize on with a drug or a procedure well they kind of do don't they that's what doctors do in other words they have something they can measure like they invented a machine called a dexa scan and now we can measure people's bone density so now we're going to have a drug which we could treat the numbers in the dexa scan and that's how bisphosphonates arose because with the dexa scan of the phosphonates the role simultaneously because now we can pick a number on the dexa scan which means you have to be treated with a drug the drug you know so and of course the drugs are um like any other drug they're poisonous they cause dangerous side effects and it's better not to use drugs it's better to use lifestyle medicine and change in your habits to fix the problems whether it's blood pressure blood glucose or cholesterol doctors treat what they can measure usually what they can measure in the blood and even a cholesterol level is only maybe one of 30 parameters that affects your risk of heart disease and that's the one they can treat that's the one they have a drug for it doesn't work that effectively because you have 29 other parameters they're not treating but it's much more important to treat the body weight and to treat the cholesterol level treat the blood pressure it's much more important to get to a favorable body weight because it's the food that led to that body weight and it's the biochemical effects of having excess fat on the body that causes all these biological pathologies that develop accelerates biological pathologies and yes i'm suggesting that the food climate in america is such that people are ubiquitously deficient in nutrients and it becomes almost impossible to control the caloric drive when you're nutritionally deficient especially in phytochemicals and antioxidants fiber also plays a role in modulating appetite but people are so confused about dieting and losing weight that they're in a vicious cycle a merry-go-round or you can say a rollercoaster of ups and downs and they've gotten so much poor information there a lot of them have checked out given up and just eat all day long because nothing works for them and they don't understand that and so that's where my i could say field of expertise this specialty is focused on in the last two decades enabling people to make sufficient lifestyle change to achieve a normal weight and maintain it and the key here is to maintain it so to develop a life that they can stay living with and get off the roller coaster of yo-yo dieting i i love you know i my first introduction to i believe was in about 2008 and it was with i don't know if it was a dvd or an audio cd i think it was called nutritional excellence and i used to listen to it in the car you remember when we used to be able to put things in our car and one of the things you said over and over that as long as you under eat on nutrients you're always going to overeat on calories and that really stuck with me because there are many people that are vegan but they're not on a health promoting diet and and hence overweight as well but i don't think everyone understands that concept yes the concept is very broad very confusing because that's right if you don't focus on the quality of what you're eating you can adequately control the quality the quantity right if you don't focus on quality you can't focus on quantity and your body instinctually will desire less calories when your biological needs for nutrients are met and i'm also suggesting here that not only do you need micronutrients like vitamins and minerals and phytochemicals and antioxidants sufficient amount of these micronutrients to control our appetite but i'm also suggesting that when you go on crash diets juice diets and fasting diets when your calories get too low it also can induce you emotionally to want to even though it'll slow your metabolic rate down for a few months too too low slow your metabolism too low so you'll gain weight easier but then emotionally they can trigger you into binge eating behaviors and trigger your emotional eating behaviors with because the deprivation then can lead to more emotional overeating and then people gain weight back again and so for for a lot of individuals dieting too extreme cutting back calories too low can lead to a yo-yo process which then they can they've slowed the metabolic rate excessively and then they're consuming too many calories for their new metabolic rate and they start gaining weight again and anytime you're gaining weight you're unless you're malnourished or too excessively thin but anytime you're gaining weight then you're in a process that's leading to the disease that's increasing inflammation making your body more saturated creating more um pro-inflammatory compounds and raising cholesterol so gaining weight is detrimental raising insulin resistance gaining weight is dangerous so i'm saying right now let's say your person came to my retreat lost 50 pounds right they're still 50 pounds overweight now right and they go home and they go to vegas or a cruise and they gain back 10 pounds so now they only lost 40 pounds in that rapid regain of 10 pounds at the cruise or on the at vegas they're in worse health now worst health than they were when they were 50 pounds heavier because they just rapidly put 10 pounds on their body and the recurrence of rapid regain of weight is biologically damaging to the body and it can precipitate a heart attack or a stroke or some other disease process but gaining weight that quickly and that's what we know most heart attacks occur around holidays around people come back on vacations and they binge eat and so binge eating and rapid regain is dangerous so anything you do that's going to precipitate you emotionally to fly off the handle and binge eat and regain weight is not good for your health we want to lose weight in a manner so people learn the method and the the you know the the psychologically the intellectual knowledge and the psychological knowledge change have to change emotionally so they can keep eating that way and continue it long term so i'm trying to teach people changes they can maintain for the rest of their life and that takes a lot of information and education not just about food and nutrition but also about philosophy and psychology as to what drives over eating behaviors because it's all intertwined you know we mentioned that maybe food addiction wasn't a good name for what might be a disease in some people's view because you really can't be addicted to food and eating you have to eat to live as one of the names of your best-selling books but do you think it's particular foods that people can be addicted to like processed foods for example or the chemicals that are added to these foods like sugar oil and salt maybe flour caffeine those kind of things alcohol of course absolutely of course but let's go to the basics one of the simplest concepts here and that is the caloric rush that enters the bloodstream so certain foods are digested very rapidly and they can put a huge amount of calories into the blood all at once particularly we're talking about sweets high glycemic carbohydrates particularly white products made from white flour like bread and bagels and pizza and italian bread and things like that um sugar honey maple syrup and also oils oils can go into your bloodstream within three to five minutes we say from the lips to the hips and three minutes flat you know but but i'm saying right now that the rush of calories into the bloodstream such a high level of calories in the bloodstream all at once that has the effect to turn on and overly stimulate dopamine centers in the brain the same areas of the brains that are stimulated by opiates and narcotics so if you're eating you know um fruits and vegetables it's hard to put in so many calories all at once because even when you're eating something calorically concentrated like a nut or a seed the calories are digested over a period of hours and beans are digested over hours not over minutes so the word glycemic load of the meal has to do with how fast the carbohydrates are broken down into the bloodstream and over time the over stimulation of the fat calories and the carbohydrate calories makes the brain dopamine insensitive and the level of calories the brain now desires becomes higher and higher and this is definitely a form of addiction because it says the same biochemical effects as drug addiction does or caffeine addiction or alcohol addiction where people are not feeling well if they don't over consume something or consume something unhealthy so i'm saying here that that in america most of the fat intake in america comes from oils or animal fats butter you know bacon or the fat on meats and those fats are rapidly digested and enter the bloodstream at a high concentration increasing a person's desire for excess calories and they do that in conjunction with high glycemic carbohydrates french fries pretzels bagels you know pizza burgers they eat a lot of foods that are high glycemic and that combination of calories into the bloodstream in such a rush turns people into food addicts that are not satisfied with lower amounts of calories so i'm saying right now that when you eat natural foods the calories don't come into the bloodstream so quickly so you're not going to be become dopamine um dopamine is not going to control your behavior but let's say you go the other way and you say okay well i'm just going to eat foods with a very low caloric density i'll just i won't even have nuts i'll just have like you know rice and and vegetables what and then you it's possible with a certain people and a lot of people too but to they can get their caloric density too low so they're overly dieting or cutting back calories so they they don't have enough caloric density in the bloodstream so two extremes both the low caloric density in the bloodstream can lead to overeating behavior and people now eat till they're stuffed and they eat so they stretch their stomach out till they're overly full because their caloric density of the meal is so low that in order to meet their need for calories they have to eat larger amounts of food and now they become addicted to larger amounts of food it's not good for your health long-term digestive capacity digestive ability organ function if you're going to eat till you're full all the time and stuff your stomach and make your stomach distend and you can see some of these people they like they're not like large muscles they're not like robust looking but they have still a big stomach sticking out you know they're like overeating even though they're not even out of breathing in calories so it's so we're trying to get this perfect balance so you're losing you're getting the right amount of calories you're not getting calories that are overly um you could say fast i call them fast food calories not referring to the foods coming from a fast food restaurant but just foods that are digested rapidly and so you're eating healthfully you're getting the right balance of calories in your bloodstream but you're undershooting by a little bit your biological needs so you're steadily losing weight but not undershooting your caloric needs excessively that's going to cause you to be then kind of rebound with over with binging or emotional deprivation if you go too far you get to emotional deprivation and then people can't maintain it and they come back and they binge eat and we use caloric density we're having a diet with a relatively favorable caloric density but we don't take that feature and make it excessive either because that doing that excessive can also lead to overeating meals that are too large so it's a little bit complicated and now we have to use those some of these basic information and intertwine it with white people emotionally overeat and why they psychologically fail on diets which is another different subject that um intertwines with a lot of the physical feelings and we even discuss the physical sensation of of detoxification where people get shaky and weak and headache and fatigue so fatigue drives tremendously overeating behavior because when people don't keep the digestive tract busy all the time their body goes into a repair or detoxification mode that leads to them feeling fatigued and eating stops the detox and makes them no longer feel fatigue and then people think that fatigue is a sign of hunger and the feeling that their fatigue means they need to eat more food and it drives so many people are driven to overeating because they're eating first they think they need to keep their energy up you know this i was gonna say you should write a book on this but you've written several uh and it's funny dr fuhrman i love all your books but fast food genocide is my favorite book of yours because you really go into the ramifications of how these foods are harmful not just people who are overweight but people of normal weight yes it affects and i try to discuss in that book how people admit or they agree that it's affecting your body and causing diabetes and heart disease but they don't see how it's affecting your brain and creating agitation tendency towards anger more loss of creativity loss of intelligence so we're saying that people's ability to be fooled and tricked their ability to weigh evidence um all these things are affected by what we eat so what a poor diet makes for a poorly functioning vein which which predisposes you to depression and makes you somewhat dysthymic so i'm saying when you're on a poor diet it affects the brain so you have a degree of dysthymia which means you're not excited and passionate about life you're not fully manifesting your creativity every day you don't get out of bed in the morning oh i got to do you know all excited about what you're going to accomplish today you're kind of just living to make some money so you can buy more food and imbibe in substances or go after your narcissistic bents you know we know some people just live because they're they're not that healthy and they're not that passionate about life or about people about emoting they don't feel and care for people in the natural world and they're not really driven by their passions they're just driven by how you can say trying to impress other people and in some way um stroke their narcissism and i'm saying the fast food has something to do with it because the more you become addicted the more you become narcissistically concerned with your own internal world and the external world becomes as gifts becomes gray so when you become a drug addict when you're a cocaine addict or a heroin addict or even an alcoholic you can hurt people even without even realizing it because you're not when you're when you're seeking drugs you're not thinking about your effect on other people and whether you're having a positive effect on them or good will your drug seeking behavior overtakes the purpose of your brain so you're no longer altruistic or motivated by by the by feeling good about yourself by having good will for the natural world what i'm saying is right now it's kind of complicated concept but i'm saying the world that begins when our fingertips end there's an external world that includes nature things people animals and our care for ourselves and our own emotional happiness is based on yes caring for ourselves but also based on how we see we care how we see ourselves caring for things that are not ourselves did you follow that so we have to be able to emote and have feelings of love and like and appreciation and gratitude for things outside our own immediate body and when you become physically addicted to substances your ability to be happy because if you care for things that are not you including the natural world and people and emotions and feelings becomes lessened and your own drive to consume addictive substances becomes a central um consumption essential activity of the brain of the human brain that becomes more important than other things making you more narcissistically involved and making you more selfishly involved with your life and you can't really realize the full humanity that you were meant for you're not the full the best version of you and i'm saying that with a food addict a lot of them fail because we've even monitored which people who lose weight and learn this information who who is more likely to fail and who was more likely to succeed and we find that the reason people fail often is from peer pressure from their social context their workers their family their friends they're feeling they're they're affected by other people think of them and when you're more centrally involved with your core of your narcissistic wanting people to approve of you when you're more involved with not how you care for others and how you feel for others and how accomplished and creative you are and having good will for the external world when that's not your biological when that's not your philosophy of life and you become more consumed with meeting your own addictive needs then you become you get more involved with how people are looking at you and thinking about you and you become more improved with requiring other people's approval and wanting to go after that kind of um societal norm and the societal norms in america contribute to that because you know how right through childhood we're all socialized as compared to bhutan or thailand we're here we're all socialized to think oh have the best job make the most money be the best in sports go to the best school give you know look the best wear the most expensive clothing you know look it's all about superficial things to try to make yourself feel that you're important or is good or better than other people and that impacts you that kind of philosophy you're raised with impacts the narcissistic tendencies exacerbated by food addiction addictions in general and then it makes people unable to tolerate not being approved up by the external world when they have to eat differently from them and they they can't be a leader they have to be a follower and in order to succeed to get rid of food addictions you have to become a leader not a follower and to become a leader not a follower you have to change the way you philosophically go after pleasure because you're not going to please people when you're when you're different from them and you have to take a leadership role in how you're caring for your health and go after pleasure in a different manner that's healthier for the long term anyway it doesn't lead to ultimate happiness to go after pleasure with narcissistic pursuits so it's all very complicated you know it is it's i think it's multifactorial and you talked about the brain and you know i've had conversations with people that suffer from actual drug addictions and alcoholism and they feel like that we're making too big of a deal about this because this isn't a real addiction but yesterday i don't know if you're familiar with tim kaufman from fat man rants he used to weigh over uh 400 pounds he's a plant-based athlete and he said that food has been a bigger battle for him and a bigger challenge than when he had to get off fentanyl oh yeah well you know number one it's a food addiction is not only real but the whole population is addicted so of course the population that's addicted and that can't do anything about it because they don't know how or want to resolve their addiction behavior they are in a place called cognitive dissonance which means it creates anxiety or some negative in the negative feelings if they try to uncover or get to the base of their issues as to why they overeat so they'd rather just keep it hidden so therefore an adult mother or father can bring donuts to the soccer games put a soda in their kid's mouth or feed their kids hot dogs we know that these things are class 1a carcinogens we know that they're outlawed even into school systems in europe we know that they you know that we're giving children obesogenic foods and that are carcinogenic but why do parents still do it and because they're still doing it because they're in a state of denial they're in a state of denial because it's causing them stress to think about these foods are harmful and so they really want to believe on some level that what they're doing is not harmful that disease is genetic it's not harmful to be overweight it's okay to be overweight they shouldn't be made to feel like it's wrong or bad and they shouldn't have to do anything about it this is just and we know so there's a movement you could say there's a movement in america um now to make being overweight the norm or the acceptable norm and uh and they don't want doctors to even bring it up and wait people when they come in for a medical visit did you see the little clip from bill maher that i sent you i i enjoyed that yes yes i mean i mean the part he said is like you go to the dentist but don't check my teeth like these people are getting they're buying these cards that say do not weigh me unless it's medically necessary and it's usually medically necessary maybe not like a dermatologist but for most doctors that's important information the one it's the most it's the most important medical parameter is how much body fat you have on your body is the most thing because it feeds the growth of every other disease you could develop but the problem with the doctor pursuing that avenue is that they don't they're the drugs don't really work that well to treat they don't have a drug that really effectively treats it so the and most people have given up on the and that they want to lose weight or can lose weight and the recurrent failure of attempting to lose weight makes them give up check out and they don't want to address this or have the doctor address it so i understand the need to not weigh them if they're not going to address this they're not going to do anything about it they don't want to do anything about it they're not going to listen to the doctor and the doctor is giving them ineffective advice on the other hand if they could get effective advice you know listen to all these lectures that you i mean some interviews you've done or read some of my books or study you know the if they could get effective advice then it would be better to weigh them and to encourage them to motivate them to make a change and to realize that getting out of that um narrow view where they can't possibly change they might as well accept themselves who them at who they are and they and they don't and they're not going to do anything to try to work to get out of this issue it's like a person you know it's different it's not like you're um there's something inherently in you that can't be changed you're not going to you don't want to reflect negative on a person with a handicap a person with a biological defect a person with a different skin tone a person with a different um look or a person with a you know we don't want to a person with a different um sexual preference we don't want to um negatively look on people negatively if on things that can't be changed but something that's the person it's self-destructive behavior that can be changed then good will would be to creatively in some way show the person that they're cared about they're loved and that they can be they can be have a better happier life not just healthier because a lot of people say i'll just die younger i'd rather be happy eat whatever i want and die younger but they're really affecting their brain negatively and causing themselves to be feel ill sickly and not be as happy as they could if they were healthier do you think though that there could be something in these foods that is affecting their brain that makes it affecting maybe the judgment center that makes it hard for them to stop yes so that's the you know that's where we have to get to people to change the what they're eating as a means so if they're not willing to change what they're eating you can't cut back on the amounts so of course you know and and we're also um there's a lot of we're saying this is multi-factorial including the fact that people are eating plastic you know and taking in endocrine disruptors from but so there's a lot of complicated factors and we say that some of these endocrine disruptors and fast foods contain obesogenic chemicals that make it harder for the body to release its fat and that's where we're trying to get rid of the obesogenic chemicals out of the body by healing the body and detoxifying it by eating cruciferous vegetables and onions and mushrooms and flax seeds and we're giving people foods and an arugula and you know we're giving people foods that aid in the body's natural detoxification channels flooding the body with nutrients and removing some of the obesogenic chemicals that are now impregnated in their tissues and their fat supply because the fat supply is the primary garbage dump of the body the body stores fat cycle toxins that are attracted to and stored in the fat supply and as you lose weight those things are released and sometimes the release of those chemicals from the fat supply can cause negative symptoms including an itchy skin rash and we said before fatigue even a feeling of flu-like syndrome and and sometimes people can feel um in a brain fog and you know a mental fog when they're trying to but they've got to go through that period of a week or two onto a healthy lifestyle to enable the body to plow through those negative withdrawal symptoms which now enhances the ability of the body to stick with a healthy diet and i'm suggesting that i'm not recommending people like go on a water fast or a juice fast to do the detox the extremeness of it slows metabolism back too much and leads to and plays with the brain and men has too high of a chance of leading to more emotional overeating behavior after the caloric deprivation is passed it's better to use food to lose weight you know and so and people can lose a lot of weight if the body is very heavy they can lose a lot of weight quickly but they're still eating a lot of pretty good amount of healthy food and flooding their body with good amount of nutrients and i think a lot of the experts in the food addiction space agree with you that it's different if somebody goes to true north to water fast because they have a disease they may be overweight or not but a lot of them say it's it's not a good idea to fast food addicts that it actually creates a rebound effect in some of them that's right i mean i might be i fast a person who's like not overweight who has asthma let's say i wanted to eat healthy and get to a normal weight and once they get to a normal weight i might fast a person who has asthma to make them break up their you know get them off the medications or a person with inflammatory bowel disease i have some people fasting um two to three days per month or two to three days every six weeks to keep their inflammatory bowel disease under check but we're not fasting them to solve their obesity or food addiction there's too many possibilities of things going wrong if you're doing that you do much more effective results if you eat if you feed them you know it's funny i just had a guy left here he was here for three months and he was you know he was three two fifty he must have been about must about 450 pounds i think when he got here and he lost 100 pounds into three months so he lost about 35 pounds a month so we left here losing 100 pounds now i would normally of thinking i would normally have thought that losing 300 pounds in three months is more than 10 pounds a week is too much weight loss that's too much too extreme but for him i was monitoring what he was eating and and his exercise in the pool and he wasn't eating too little amount of calories his just body was so healthy that he was eating so healthfully but he was dumping a large amount of um calories without him restricting going below 1500 calories a day so he wasn't extremely dumb but he still lost 100 pounds in three months and now of course we're monitoring him when he's home and he's following the program and still losing not as fast to that rate but he's still he's now i think about anyway so he still needs to lose another 100 pounds obviously but some of these people lose weight very rapidly but it's not too rapidly most people need to keep the weight loss within that two to three pounds a week window if maybe he's under he's an unusual circums um individual because he was so overweight but most people there they can control their diet and control the amount of food in their two to three pound window and i say to people you know you know excuse that word nutritarian meaning a super healthy eater following a diet that's um designed to maximize human longevity and slow aging so i say you're a nutritarian when you're at an ideal weight and if you're overweight and not losing weight then you're not on a nutritarian diet because the nutritarian diet has to do with what you're eating and how much you're eating both things have to come into play we eat the right foods so we can eat the right amount of foods but we so there are people who emotionally overeat even on good food right even unhealthier food and so and that you're you can be a nutritarian if you're overweight if you are steadily losing weight in the direction of your normal weight then you but if you're a nutritarian and not losing if you're not losing weight then you're doing something wrong you're either eating the wrong food or you're eating too much of it and you're not doing what's right for you because i'm saying right now is that every person is different this person lost 100 pounds in one in three months on 1500 calories a day and for another person they might even lose on 1500 calories a day that could be too many calories for them so we don't even know if that's the right amount of calories for this overweight woman let's say who now is about five foot one and weighs 180 pounds it was a very slow metabolic rate maybe she needs 1200 calories a day but i'm saying that's okay because we can tweak the food the amount of greens the amount of salad we can we can adjust the caloric concentration and density of our meals so she can get to the exact perfect diet for her so she loses weight steadily and makes it maintainable long term so i'm saying right now if you're not losing weight you have to make some adjustments and make those adjustments so you lose weight moderately and then so something that you can maintain then you can maintain it long term because then when they do it moderately they're doing it without um without excessively slowing down the metabolic rate we do want the metabolic rate to be slowed by the way this idea that we want to that people are trying to raise their metabolic rate that's just craziness there's no you can't but we want them because we slow the metabolic rate we slow the aging process but we only want to slow it a little bit we don't want to slow it excessively absolutely let me just read some of the nice comments and first i want to thank karen for the super chat donation you have so many friends like amy who says dr joel furman rocks you have i just uh so many people that say oh this kathy this man has so much wisdom i love listening to him colleen this has been the best week on chef aj live and on and on uh bethany agrees with you she says feeding obesity is selfish it's hard to admit she really appreciates your talk a doctor from the a lot of the doctors in the plant-based world are okay with sugar and salt and flour a little or a lot but what i really love about the doctors we had on this week like you and dr esser dr sabatino dr goldhamer you came from the nha you know the nat the natural hygiene movement where you really didn't think of those as food you thought of those as chemicals and i'm wondering what of course yeah drugs exactly so not i mean one could ostensibly boil a piece of meat without i mean people wouldn't but i'm saying one could if they wanted to boil a piece of chicken eat it without all the sugar fat and salt but processed food really couldn't exist without that that's correct and you know um so i always said that you know lots of people in the health food and natural food and even the health movement they want to appeal to the masses they want to come up with recommendations that everybody will like them and they won't offend anybody and those are the diets that get the highest rating by u.s news and world report like for example the ones that nobody is offended you can still have your cheese you can still have your salt you can still have your oil still right and the diet let's say style that i recommend isn't going to become rated that high because their criticism of it will be it's too strict people can't everybody people aren't going to do it and two it's too radical for most people right and i'll say well you know that's not the whole purpose isn't to please them isn't a popularity contest we're not running for president we're trying to give people explain to them what's the healthiest way to live and what's the most successful way they can keep the weight off for the rest of their life and what's going to maxilly keep them healthy in their later years and prevent cancer and heart disease so what so my my niche and of course some of the other people you mentioned we're trying to design what's ideal for people to do not appeal to the most people possible so they're right that the diets that i'm recommending would not be rated in the top five let's say because it's not going to appeal to a large number of people we could name other people other doctors which we know who are very popular who try to appeal to a larger audience they want to bring people in and not offend anybody and they'll and they call it and and they do it and they improve the diet towards what we're recommending but only a little bit but they do they use baby steps to get here so people don't feel that they they can be offended the only problem with those things is you're still feeding people's addictive tendencies and giving them the drug-like effect of these substances that makes it more likely for them to fail and also when you when you're trying that hard to diet need helpfully you don't see any benefit when your blood pressure isn't normalized when your cholesterol stays high when you still have headaches all the time when you're still bloated and you still have fatigue and you don't see your weight coming down then people give up they throw in the towel because they don't see results and when you do something that's more um you could say considered radical but more life span promoting a more healthier diet then you can see better results and people will stick with it because they like the results they're getting i say i make this very stupid statement because everybody tries to disagree with this a diet that is healthier it's less i know it go ahead it's funny okay how could i change it around but here it is a diet that's healthier is healthier than one that is less healthy i just you know i might change it around but you get the idea everybody wants to say that their diet it's not quite as healthy is just as healthy isn't it they want to have you believe it's just as healthy a little bit of salt just as healthy have a little bit of sugar just something to put oil on your food just as healthy not to eat nuts just as healthy to do you know it's whatever it is they're not doing it's just as good that way right because they're they're trying to make their it seem like it doesn't matter but these little nuances do matter when you if you really want to look at maximizing human health into your quality of your life between 90 and 105 years old and a lot of people aren't interested in that so that's fine they don't have to be this healthy you know and they can take they could take they could gamble with their health or gamble with their future life but when people get more solid information that's not based on an individual's let's say opinion so much as it is based on an overwhelming amount of evidence in conjunction with expert clinical experience and and um and logic so we're talking about an overwhelming amount of evidence so then we we modify and we learn and we grow and we eventually come to something that works better for people as a result of putting together a lot of evidence from various sources to give people as much possible help as they can yeah you know it's funny you're my 135th show today so i've interviewed a lot of doctors 1 000 yeah 1 135 today wow that's amazing i know and i haven't missed a day since i started and a lot of them have been doctors and mostly plant-based doctors and it's not that they necessarily disagree with you but they're treating patients and they say you know they can't make them do this they have to meet them where they are and i think that people sometimes can have success without doing it the way we advocate but i think for food addiction it pretty much has to be your way dr goldhamer's way doc you know the way that you guys are teaching it in order for it to be effective because i think that little bit of sugar that little bit of salt that little bit of caffeine and chocolate and flour and alcohol that they're including in an otherwise healthy plant-exclusive diet is the reason that they're always having compulsions for to eat more and cravings we know that's the case but let me be real clear here so people can put this into numbers those people who have their patients baby step their way and don't want to give them such a hard line that does work better with some people because some people will reject the hard line and just not do anything if you give them too much but we're saying that for most people with serious addiction trying to motivate that person to do this 100 percent and not dabble in in their addictive foods increases the probability of them staying within getting results so the percentage of people that you can help that come to see you with overweight conditions is enhanced by giving people a more clear guidelines and more clear boundaries when you make the boundaries a little softer you're still going to help some people so we're not saying that those peop those doctors or physicians or experts aren't helping anybody but my experience has been and i've been doing this for more than 40 years now and have used this as my um primary interest of research is that the percentage of people you can help is enhanced by having clear boundaries and it doesn't mean that they're helping people but i don't want to see any people fail so when a person invests the money let's say to come to my retreat they've invested a lot of money in a lot of time in their life so i don't want to gamble with the fact that they're going to leave and blow it and get their weight back and lose their whole so we want to make sure they have the skills the emotional skills and the clear exact clarity on what they should eat and how much they should eat so they can do this with a girl go home so what we've done is we didn't guarantee them that they're not going to succeed because there's a lot of other pressures and people don't every person doesn't quit smoking and every person doesn't go on to healthy eating once they've got all the information but we increase the probability of them being successful and now we have a vast majority of those people being successful now with what we're doing whereas when we gave them information at a week conference let's say then we had when whole foods let's say whole foods market gave us like 100 sickly overweight people and put them in a hotel with us for a week and we trained them for a week and we sent them out we trapped those of them that took what they learned and lost weight and got healthy and those that didn't and we found that those that didn't do well usually had we tracked the reasons was peer pressure mostly peer pressure and they didn't fit socially into their social environment when they went home and what i'm saying right now over the years we've radically enhanced the percentage of people that stay successful with the program because of what we're talking about now of the all these different issues put together including the fact that um unclear boundaries may reduce the probability you're going to help that you're going to be able this person to stick with it and you would think it would be the opposite it seems more it seems more like um you know this you know people would think more likely they're going to most likely think oh if i do what that strict i'm going to fall off and never be able to stay with it so i'm going to just do it less strict and i'll stay with it long term but in most cases that dabbling in the unhealthy food stimulates their brain centers to want them more and they're always stressed out deciding what to eat and how much to eat they're always getting signals that are biologically driving them to those foods and wanting to eat more so you kept this person in this addictive mentality and physically addicted it's like having the alcoholic you know drink alcohol on the weekends and some people could do that some people can who have trouble with alcohol can just drink a couple of glasses a week and that's okay with them they can do it but the majority of alcoholics do better if you take the alcohol out completely we do a highlight reel every week and i can tell you what you just said is going to make it the da i always tell people you can't dabble in addiction or weight loss you can't dabble i love that you use that word thank you for so much for saying that you know i i completely agree with you because if if somebody can have a little of this they're probably probably don't have a problem right but most people can't it's like dr goldhamer says if you could have done controlled it you would have controlled it but you can't so it's not you so stop it right people come to see me as a patient i say well don't decide what you should eat and what you like to eat what you think you should you learn you should eat what you because you that didn't work for you did it you making those decisions now just for now let me make the decisions on what you're going to eat and let's see how that goes you know and test me out so to see if i'm really right or wrong and you i'm saying to you your diabetes is going to go away your blood pressure's going to normalize you're going to drop 20 pounds this month and let's just see if it works and then we can talk about how we're going to make this process diet taste so incredibly delicious that you're not going to be doing and you're not going to think about any other way of eating and of course i wouldn't dabble in those foods myself because i don't enjoy them because i enjoy my the foods i'm used to and the recipes we've designed and i enjoy feeling so well that i wouldn't think of doing that you couldn't get 10 men to tie me down to a chair and push that stuff into my mouth i walk through the airports and smell the chocolate chip cookies and the pretzels and the pizza and just look at it as people like shooting up with drugs it's kind of disgusting to you why would you know and that's how we have to develop we have to get rid of a food addiction we have to get to a person to change the way they see everything how they see the world how they see the clouds how they see nature how they're looking at their own self-esteem and how they see food as being and how they really see caring for themselves they're mindfully now behaving in a matter that's in their own best interest all the time because why should a person logically not behave in their own best interest things that benefit their own happiness so we we we try to teach people in a manner to be mindful that everything they say is in their own best interest and that means when a person accosts you and say you know where to get your protein or if i had to eat like that i'd rather be dead just shoot me right now because if i'd be like i'd rather be dead enough to eat that way you wouldn't want to live their life eating that way or what it so when a person makes you feel uncomfortable the question is what comes out of your mouth are you now trying to protect your ego are you trying to insult them or feel better than them or superior to them or are you caring about them and think about how this is a unique opportunity to show them love and possibly have creative goodwill for their life and when it becomes when all that other stuff in your brain is gone and you're not concerned with how they're looking at you and how people are looking at you and you're totally free to have goodwill creative goodwill for them you really do feel better about yourself you're not you're you're left without the you're not conflicted and you're not guilty and you're not worried about what people are thinking or saying about you because you feel good that you are having good will and you've manifested your your full creativity of your brain to show them care and good will at the same time and they can appreciate and maybe get something from it and if this and the person you only have a one in a hundred chance of affecting this person positively but that doesn't matter then what matters is you made the attempt just because it failed doesn't mean you didn't make the attempt you're feeling good about yourself because you made an appropriate attempt at goodwill it didn't have to have worked but it had the possibility of working and this is the stepping stone it's why people you chew mindfully you speak mindfully right and you and you act mindfully in your own best interest and you realize that your own best interest also complements the best interest of other people around you because that's your own best interest too you're no longer putting yourself out you're not only getting agitated you're feeling you know so it leads it helps people think about this food addiction and dabbling in addictive substances when they realize everything they do matters it all counts and it all helps them to be more in control of their life and not be self-destructive you know and i agree with you people can learn to love the taste of whole natural food but if they keep dabbling in the sos and the processed food it's like they have a foot in both worlds and they don't really enjoy either so either you think that like me or at least you've copied that from what i said to you in a different interview probably but i think it was like just i think they always do the term foot in both worlds you know too well it's like doing the splits and it's like eventually you get pulled in both directions and you don't really enjoy either place very much and it's that's right and they're chronically under stress always having to make a decision should i have that should i not have that that's stress and you know dieting is stressful and going to doctors is stressful and worrying about diseases is stressful and you have to live in chronic fear and chronic fear shortens people's lifespan we want people to be at peace and you want to be at peace emotionally and but you can't be at peace when you're having mammograms and colonoscopies and blood tests and medical care and you can't be a conventional human being eating conventional food getting conventional diseases and getting conventional medical care and be at peace you're taught you're taught to be chronically afraid of being sick and not only you're taking drugs that are poisonous but but but collecting medical screening tests is to a degree poisonous because it exacerbates your fear of life and disease and keeps you chronically thinking about the fear of diseases and so the the eating cycle keeps the medical cycle going and it has a negative effect on people's health lifespan and happy and ultimate happiness a debbie who's watching live wants to know do you believe that you can overcome an addiction or is it something you just have to manage yes you can overcome it with with time but it takes us a lot of time longer than most people think and longer sometimes what i used to think you know so even they know with cigarette smokers they are you know they're not physically addicted to cigarettes anymore after the first six months but they're still emotionally attracted to cigarettes and can have a form of emotional addiction that can last a few years but once they're off their cigarettes for a few years most of them aren't thinking about smoking all the time and they don't really feel the desire to go back to smoking and that doesn't mean that would be good for them to try to smoke to see if they're still addicted but they don't need to do that and you know and that's really your addiction is cured so a person who let's say all these thousands of people that have lost more than like 50 or 100 pounds using my program let's say they've kept it off for years and years and years they're not going to go back to the former way of eating they're satisfied with the way they're living maybe they still have that tendency towards food addiction had they gone back on eating junk food again but they don't they don't feel the need to do that so i think that's the same as a um as a recovery or getting well from food addiction it's like doctors argue sometimes they'll say this person got well from diabetes their blood sugars are normal and they don't need medication they're non-diabetic and they say you're just controlling it with diet they still have diabetes i'm saying no they don't they don't have diabetes so they eat poorly they can get diabetes again yes just like my person's overweight they've lost weight they can become overweight again if they eat poorly again but if they eat rightly they're going to stay at their normal weight now for the rest of their life so certainly we want people to achieve a full recovery with no strong desire to go back into dangerous eating again and that's a cure right so apple wants to know what is your personal working definition of addiction i don't know um you can think about it and i'll ask you another question i guess it means that the the definition of addiction is the um continue to imbibe in substances that are destructive to your long-term health and emotional well-being continue to utilize things that are not good for you even when you know it even when you know it's not good for you correct yeah and even sometimes when you don't know it you don't even have to know it because if you're still doing things that are harmful and you don't believe it's bad for you it's still an addiction right it could be a behavior too well thank you so faith wrote in and said i would love to know if dr fuhrman has had patients come to his center and do well but return home to either an unsupportive environment or family and then they struggled again and if so what do you recommend for people in that situation we've been somewhat talking about that here but yes i mean that that is the key question here because almost every person whether it's their family or their friends or their workers or their relatives pushing on you have to not eat the birthday cake i made for you whatever it is almost every person that goes home almost every person that does this goes back and does not receive a crowd of supporters encouraging them clapping them and keeping cake away from their love their mouth they're trying to do the opposite they're trying because they're food addicted people around them that are made uncomfortable with this person who's no longer sharing these self-destructive behaviors they're going to try to sabotage you so you have to be prepared with the knowledge of how not to be sabotaged and we're talking somewhat about changing your purpose and your philosophy of life and also increasing the probability that your home environment is safe and if your home environment where you live you may have to have it's two separate refrigerators you may have to have separate cupboards you may have to um your spouse or your living partners may have to learn about this program with some type of videos or that in order for them to support you even if they don't want to do it we may have to ask those people for emotional support and approval even though they're not going to eat the way you are going to eat and it's best if you don't put pressure on them to do so but instead want this to to encourage their love for you to support you with what you want to do that's best for your life and whatever that means doing to not to sabotage you so yes and we as sometimes we have to work on the loving relationship between the partners because in a true loving relationship the partner at home who's not eating this way isn't trying to sabotage but trying to aid the person trying to lose weight and get back in health and if they want to eat something they shouldn't be eating then they then they shouldn't be um you know tempting the person to join them um so yes all these things are to be considered and to be discussed and a plan developed to anticipate the problems before they occur and we want people to have a definite business plan which they implement when they go home right and you i'm sure you teach them what the importance is of having a clean environment or as clean of an environment as possible yes and to have it all worked out they know they know how they're going to shop they know what recipes they're going to make you know what foods are going to store in their house and what foods aren't going to be in the house and they know how to how do they know how to deal with their family they know how to compromise and show their family they know how to express um in a loving way what they're requesting their family to do and a lot of times that of course those communications and those um that impact is done before they even get home they've already worked and worked it out so when they go home they're in a favorable environment and their family is supportive of them i agree with you i think that is sometimes the missing piece and sometimes the most important piece i have not worked with nearly as many people as you but i see that as the is the piece that is always the reason for the recidivism i i see very few people living in a clean in a clean environment that just go down that rabbit hole it's always either the social pressure and it's often usually the spouse yes or family or grandparent you know i remember when i first started dating my wife lisa her parents thought i was going to kill her with the way it was that she was eating and she started eating healthy from meeting me they said you're going to die he's going to kill you they were so against me what i want to show you this t-shirt the reason i didn't wear it as i wore it last week with a different doctor but i thought you would like it that's yeah it's very nice and the reason it doesn't just say stop eating crap but it specifically says eat veggies and i want to bring up the fact that you are not not the only doctor that recommends lots of vegetables especially green leafy and cruciferous vegetables but you're really one of the first that i became aware of and maybe you could talk a little bit about why that's so important i don't know if this is true this is just something i read in a couple of books but that green vegetables specifically the cruciferous ones have cruciferous ones have a compound called thylakoids that seem to be magical for helping people with food addictions they help fight cravings they turn off the hunger switch they block fat absorption and do you you've said before on when i've interviewed you for other summits you've said if you don't like vegetables you better live close to a hospital so why are vegetables especially greens so important to helping people with weight issues and food addiction issues there's there's a lot of reasons why you're touching on some of them yeah i always say that you know i like to ski you know i'm an avid snow skier and i look at these expensive condos and homes on the side of the slope because people like to ski they like to just shoot right off their house and go right onto the slope and i'm saying people want to eat conventionally and not eat vegetables you should be like live close to a hospital get it like a condo or a or a house with a um right near a hospital a little zip line or like a like a lift like a it's funny you say that when i lived in the desert eisenhower which was like the only hospital i mean there were everybody lived across the street from the hospital right it's crazy right live in a crazy world but anyway um getting back to this concept yes there's i'm also supporting that notion that there's actually ingredients in the food that help your body reverse atherosclerosis reduce the detox we help get rid of the body of poisons and mold that the but that in food that reduce angiogenesis the promotion and the promotion of fat growth of fat in the body accelerate fat loss that lower cholesterol there are compounds in food that have medicinal effects and the compounds and we talk about um anti-fat storage effects of green vegetables being very powerful but also of mushrooms and onions and of also flax seeds and chia seeds and of um kind of cruciferous greens and even beans so that's where that acronym g bombs comes from the g bombs greens beans onions mushrooms berries and seeds stands for the food categories with the most scientific support or anti-cancer benefits and lifespan enhancement and you know so they do have so certain foods all foods are not created equal and we do need to eat um colorful plants and i'm also adding that in it's a variety of these foods that intense that intensify the benefits and we want to go after more nutritional variety in our diet including greens so we're saying here that let's say an okinawan diet a blue zone diet eating mostly sweet potato a little bit of pork a little bit of fish some pickled vegetables is much better than the standard american diet but it's not an ideal diet because if you look at the foods they're eating they're not eating a wide enough variety of food and just because they lived eight years longer than average americans just means it's better than an american diet and we can do so much better than the blue zone diets because we have so much science today to show us these beneficial foods and how to make a dietary portfolio that clues that includes a much wider absorbent to these foods but in some way work synergistically so even if i'm growing agreeing with the concept of the green cruciferous vegetables being the probably king of all superfoods absolutely but having plain green lettuce in your salad too that's high in sofonovos also gives a protect it enhances the biofilm and slows the glycemic load of everything you eat and has beneficial effects and lettuce has almost no oxalic acids the calcium bioavailability is so high so in other words i'm saying there are so many other foods we have to include in a healthy diet and not and so to go after nutritional variety and one thing we've learned in recent years is that to have the best microbiome with the most beneficial microbes on the biofilm and the most thickened and protected biofilm has to do with a variety of different nutritional foods making sure you're having enough raw vegetables enough raw variety and some cooked and to have raw gives you better nutritional bio microbiome diet diversity and also the types of big huge diversity we used to think like taking a probiotic pill by with acidophilus made from dill computing sauerkraut that's fermented we're going to increase the microbiome those but we're really finding out that the healthiest microbiome with the most beneficial effects have meaning a different a lot of varieties of colors and fibers and different types of plants that chewed very well yeah great uh kathy wants to know what are your recommendations for eating out i just tell people don't go she says yes that's the basic answer just don't go out but it is social connection and i live alone it's difficult to avoid sugar oil salt and those those chemicals are a trigger for me as an addict um then all you need to do to go out is bring your own salad dressing in your pocketbook or in your pocket so all you need to do is bring your own salad dressing it's okay you can say just you there's either a salad bar restaurant or a restaurant that has big salads available and i'll often go into a restaurant and look what vegetables they have available inside and i'll say can you i notice you have asparagus a broccolini or could you make me that without salt or oil just plain steamed or blanched you just put it on top of the salad and they'll usually say sure the trick is also to go early about 4 30 or 5 o'clock before the restaurant gets too busy you don't go on a friday or saturday night when they're during you know seven o'clock at night when they're going crazy with being busy you're asking for something to make something special for you you go to the restaurant earlier and off night and you go to a restaurant that has big salads or a salad bar or you call ahead and you ask the chef if he can make you a vegetable platter without without any without salt and oil and then you very and then you um privately and nobody's really looking at you you can take your little dressing salad oil balsamic or whatever it is you have i mean walnut balsamic vinaigrette or something you brought with you to add a little more flavor to their more bland they don't know how to make vegetables taste great so if you want a little bit bring a sauce or thai curry sauce or something with you to add a little flavor you can do that but just sprinkle a little on your plate it's not that hard if you either go to the right restaurant go at the right time and even call ahead and speak to the chef and make sure they have no objection to making something something especially yeah and you know the thing is you can at least ask if you don't ask the answers no and i didn't eat at restaurants for 10 years but since moving to northern california i have found three vegan restaurants that if i call them either 24 hours in advance or even 12 hours in advance they make me like the most delicious food the weight you know no sugar i mean it's and it's actually better than what all the other people are eating and then people try to eat my food that's the problem yeah but you know one of the things problems is they give you a salad that's too small you know so i'll say to me i want to i want double the salad size and they say it's a pretty big salad already and i'm saying no but i want two of those and i want to be charged with two of them i want to make sure it's on the bill you're charging me for two cells i want to know i'm getting all that volume and a lot of times make it bigger than double you know then so i want to be you know it's a 1299 salary 14.99 charge me 30 bucks i want something big you know yeah they don't understand calorie density this last restaurant made the food perfect but i was still hungry and i ordered another plate and they looked at me but they don't understand when you're not getting oil you know and speaking of eating larger volumes which is i think one of the greatest things about the way we tell people to eat because we never have to feel hungry there's still a group of people even people that that love you and follow you that believe that the only way to be successful is to weigh and measure everything uh you know on a scale and what bothers me about those groups is that i understand limiting you know some of the higher caloric density foods but to weigh your green vegetables to a mere seven ounces because they claim well i can overeat on that really you can really overeat on you know plain steamed kale yeah i'm agreeing with you it makes people too neurotic about food too it's too neurotic it's too um you know we should be um the whole goal is to eat instinctually and naturally and eat what you feel like eating but we're trying to develop the ability so what we feel like eating is the same as what's best for us and that takes practice doing the right thing and so we're trying to i'm not giving into the you know oh i okay you know i don't i don't feel good with that we'll still get a little of it then let's see if we're gonna make you digest it better i'm gonna try to if i possibly can all right if i eat that i need too much of that you know we're trying to get people to eat a balanced healthy diet and if they do it long enough with the right amount they can get accustomed to it and and what's consistent with that behavior it's practice any let's say super professional expert like roger federer the tennis player with a perfect swing where his belly button points at the finishing spot where the ball bounces his elbow doesn't bend till it crosses his chin where his heel comes off the back foot where he's got the perfect stroke almost with his head is on the ball after the ball leaves his head is still on that spot where it hit the ball where the aiming spot the contact point the point i'm making right now is that he developed those skills with repetition and instruction to develop with paying attention with determination and repetition and practice until he got it right and after he got it right he can run around the tennis court he's not thinking where his head is and where his elbow is or when he's keeping his arms straight he's not worried about it he's just playing tennis right he's just it happens naturally we want this to have we want at the beginning you have to pay attention to things and practice it to do it the right way even if it doesn't feel so great but over time the expectation is that if you do this properly in the right balance it should feel natural for you it should eventually develop into the way you prefer to eat that you love eating the most and also works for you best and then you're not weighing you're not measuring you're just kind of eating the right amount and likewise we shouldn't eat to a full and um it's a continual process because for example um look at me i could sometimes overeat a dinner and you know they're serving a good dessert or it tastes so good i want a second portion i come home late at night and i feel my stomach that i ate a little too much i'm going to bed and i still haven't finished digesting the meal yet well i just overrated dinner so i learned from that i got to watch myself a little bit so i'm not saying it you instinctually but you're also being aware of um trying to eat the right amount and the right foods and even somebody like me who's been healthy for so many years i still could tendency to overeat occasionally and i'm trying to still gotta keep an eye on that you know what i mean right but are you really you know this you bring up an interesting point if your weight is staying stable mine's been stable for 10 years and sometimes i do feel too full but isn't it just because of the food like if your weight is the same are you really overeating yes okay it's not good for your health to overeat to distend your stomach or to um even if you're at a favorable weight because it stresses the body's repair mechanisms and ages you faster because your metabolism could adjust to the extra food calories unless you totally went way amount of calories the extra calories are still going to speed up your metabolic rate that you didn't need and the metabolic rate is your rate at which you're aging so even at a favorable weight you could be aging faster with excess food and eating to distention or fullness and particularly eating so you're what i what i don't want to do is eat so i'm full when i go to bed at night so i have food in my stomach when i'm sleeping i'm trying to eat light enough at dinner so i feel like i go to bed at night i finish digesting for the night and then i could not be perfect there but i'm striving to get it right so i don't eat more at dinner than i'm supposed to be eating so i can go to bed an empty stomach so yes i agree with you about eating late that's just not that doesn't feel good so so dina who's watching live says is it okay to eat bread if the flowers like for example she says the ingredients are rolled out state paste baking powder baking soda shredded zucchini plant-based milk and applesauce blend and bake so is is it okay to do something like that if the flour is not being finely ground or is bread still kind of a problem for a lot of people it has yeah it has to have even the whole wheat flour can be so finely ground i use that ezekiel bran bread food for like ezekiel bread because it's not really flour it's not like sprouted wheat fresh spouted grains that are not as finely ground but even that's a lot of calories and still this be somewhat um restricted people just can't be eating like two slices of bread with each meal or something they you know some people that are overweight don't need that many calories so those things should be eating eat more conservatively so yes i mean that with you wanting to be cooking something with applesauce and dates now you're talking about a dessert food that should be probably limited you know that's not bread it's a dessert because they make dates and applesauce in there you you really do call it like you see it don't you so one more question dr fuhrman not everybody will have the privilege of coming to your center and this is a a problem that's difficult for people and the recidivism rate is is very high so how can we give people hope to you know just to keep trying well i think that you um aj i applaud you for what you're doing here and helping people um get more knowledge to keep trying so it's great it's great you've done these things and so yeah that's why i've written 12 books too and that's why you produce videos and conferences and taking do interviews like i'm doing with you right now to give people more information more motivation and so they can listen to this again they can watch some of my videos they can read my they can read my books i wrote a book called the end of dieting which talks about people not yo-yoing and then keeping trying to be consistent on that focuses on food addiction and i you know and food and fast food genocide is one of my favorite books too but note that it did not become a new york times bestseller you know so some of my favorite books are the ones the public aren't going to see it as favorite because it's too thrown in their face they would rather make a book like um you know the end of diabetes would be a best seller because so many people are buying diet books got the word diabetes in the title you know what i mean but actually or the end of heart disease or best sellers but not fast food genocide which is probably even more how can you say philosophically and intellectually challenging you know what i mean there's still hope that you know as people get sicker and bigger that that book could become a bestseller maybe we just change the title a little to tell them what they think they want to hear in the title i'm kind of like semi-retired now yeah yeah you seem dr fuhrman you seem so much calmer not that you were hyper before but i feel like you're more zen now you know i'm getting more sleep and more exercise so i have a little more time on my hands i'm not writing books all the time into the night you know so i'm able to like stay in bed a little longer and also i can do like either a hike or go to the gym or swim or bike they can do something every day so i'm still working but i have more time to sleep and exercise so i do feel a little more balanced with my life you know what i mean yeah well it shows dr fuhrman really thank you so much you're always you just you're so kind you're always willing to talk to me and my audience and and i really appreciate your passion for this subject and your expertise because you were really one of the first in this field to get it and to get it right thank you thank you so much dr fuhrman and thank you thank you so much and thanks all of you for watching another episode of chef aj live please come back tomorrow when my guest is dr christy frunk and she's going to be talking about the 18 best foods for breast cancer and dr fuhrman i'm pretty sure all your g bombs are going to be in those 18 foods

Channel: CHEF AJ

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Id: i7iKA8ucVXQ

Length: 69min 0sec (4140 seconds)

Published: Sun Aug 21 2022