FAA Proposed MOSAIC - A Game Changer for General Aviation?

the biggest Buzz heading into air Venture was the faa's notice of proposed rule-making that changes the world for light sport we're going to talk about Mosaic in the hangar hello welcome to this episode of in the hangar we're on location and I'm Dan Milliken I'm Christy Wong here at the Flying ice Booth where if you use our discount code at flyingeyesoptics.com you get 10 off taking off all caps one word use that code and also Clemens Insurance Jerry has saved me a lot of money on my own aircraft and my CFI Insurance absolutely but the big buzz around air Venture this year Mosaic Mosaic so guys I have with us we've got the EAA represented with Sean we've got the president of Vans uh Ryan Johnson thank you guys for coming Mosaic what is it well first and foremost thanks for having us here welcome to the radius Aviation event on the planet absolutely yeah Mosaic is big big news for all of general aviation uh it's been a a long rule in the making and we are so excited to see it finally come across that finish line and become a proposal that's now out for public comment uh in the very final stages of the rulemaking process and what is it it's the expansion of light sport aircraft you know EA was the champion of light sport aircraft all the way back in 2003 and 2004 when the very first iteration of light sport aircraft and Sport pilot hit the industry and now we have all these years later a lot of really solid data that's shown this works and is good for Aviation and over the past 10 years uh you know Ryan and vans and EAA and and several within the industry uh have been working on and working with the FAA expanding that and EAA is the lead from for Mosaic the expansion of white sport aircraft couldn't be happier that we have actually seen now the final rule the excuse me the proposed rule that will ultimately become Final in about 16 months to 24 months that's a long time I remember when I was a student pilot one of the questions I had was wow I assessment 150 wouldn't that be considered a light sport aircraft and I learned at the time it wasn't but under this new rule it would correct yeah it will I'm going to let Ryan walk through the specifics with your audience of you know exactly how this the parameters of LSA work because there's some fundamental changes in the definition of light sport aircraft that are very very good we have some work to do yet on a few of the specific parameters but that's what the comment period is for and we will be doing so but Ryan once you tell the audience exactly what LSA is looking forward sure I think we should start back with the 150 or the 152. it's a great example of an airplane that even if it was light sport doesn't have enough weight capacity currently as it would have fit in the 13 20 pounds that we had before in the 120 knots it didn't have that capacity to carry you know you know two modern individuals and there is it's the reality of it that you put two people in any of those airplanes from the 1950s and you can't even put in full fuel so we're in that was one thing that was looked at also the Light sport airplanes that we had uh they just didn't have the robustness and one of the major uh drivers of the modern Mosaic is to get more airplanes into flight schools that have modern technology that have more robustness even than a Cess to 150 they can take the the impact loads and they have more capability overall to bring that modern technology that's that's huge you know you go out on a flight line now and a student sees an old six-pack and in modern airplanes they're going to see an ephes they're going to see extra safety equipment that that we're looking to bring into Aviation at this level that we feel will progress throughout Aviation and make these airplanes even safer and what Ryan just described is not going to only impact private ownership and and lower some to some degree lower costs of ownership which is huge for EAA it's also going to affect the Flight Training industry absolutely we're going to see modern effective for Place training aircraft that fall under this new category and will hopefully revolutionize and modernize the Flight Training industry from a fleet acquisition and and Fleet type standpoint so let's talk about what is this going to do to the definition of the light Sport and how it's going to affect light sport Pilots sure well Sean can answer the pilot side but at least from the aircraft side there's no weight limit any longer on the roll and it's currently written you know we're in the nprm notice for proposed rulemaking there's a 90-day comment period we're going through now so this can all change but there's no weight restriction we have a v of H here the max level speed with full continuous power of 250 knots so they're looking to the future with future power plants you can put any power plant in this aircraft except for a rocket currently so it's it's very future forward-facing I mean we're talking like 182s we're talking bonanzas we're talking so that's that's one element of it that's very good no question and that is the now as the new definition comes out what are the Legacy aircraft that will meet those parameters and allow a sport pilot to fly it and you're absolutely right as defined with the proposal a 182 would fall into that category a 172 would fall into that category there's a few aircraft that are missed that we think again with the comment period and getting the right feedback with with a strong safety case behind that feedback that we will hopefully help the FAA make those adjustments and get the the widest possible uh parameters of of what makes sense to have in this category uh but no question there's some exciting aircraft that will be for a sport pilot eligible as soon as this rule becomes final uh eligible to fly including the aircraft like you just described and mentioned the 182 172 uh a 180 horse Piper Comanche because now you can do things that are or fly things as a sport pilot that have conscious speed propellers and retractable gear uh with proper training and an instructor endorsement Just Like A Private Pilot right right you now will be able to pursue those kinds of aircraft as well and that's that's from a sport pilot perspective nothing has changed changed from the sport pilot definitions and requirements and training uh other than the the fact that you can now get these additional endorsements to fly these additional aspects for those aircraft that have it but but the definition change and the new broader category of what is considered a light sport aircraft will greatly enhance the ability for sport Pilots to get into those types of aircraft what will be the limitations still imposed on light sport Pilots there'll still be again all of the current limitations still exist so with a future exceptions okay things like not over ten thousand feet MSL altitude okay over 2000 AGL in in mountainous terrain you can still only carry one passenger but with the definition change for light sport you could fly something that has four seats you can just only have two occupants in that aircraft so one passenger and the sport pilot so you have to look at it correctly and look at it carefully and realize that for the most part the the sport pilot privileges are still the same again with the exception of night now sport Pilots with that hold either a basic Med certificate or a third class medical we'll be able to fly at night now okay so you know with the proper endorsement and training all good things for general aviation all right so you mentioned a lot of good things but you guys you mentioned also that there were some things that you would like to see during the comment period put in what specifically are some of those things well looking at it from an aircraft designer standpoint there's a few things maybe I'll mentioned a couple of benefits and come back to that IFR is currently we're writing the standards for IFR so if you look at this from a standpoint of designing an airplane in its marketability having an airplane that just goes into a flight school that can't you know only is the first few hours is not that marketable but when we carry you all the way through the IFR certificate and you're flying the same airplane when you're taking that check ride that you started out with that's big we're also allowing aerobatics so we're writing this around for that now that was allowed worldwide under light sport but not in the United States before wow so everybody else could do it except for the US under the light Sports certain restrictions okay okay so um there's there's exciting things that give marketability but let's take a step back and you know what are those things that we're concerned about one is uh a noise restriction and we're not concerned from that standpoint because we all care about noise right we don't well except that air Venture but that's good noise yeah exactly but in general at your regular airport we are concerned about noise it's just how onerous how high of a bar does it take to get there if we have the same bar that's applied to the rest of aviation in the certified world the cost of these airplanes is not going to come down so what we've proposed is uh and I've been working with Sean we were both in DC together talking to the FAA we proposed something that's just easy to calculate basic parameters what makes the noise at our airport isn't it you know uh Cessna 206 that can for five minutes turn it 28.50 and that propeller tip speed is right below the Sonic barrier um you know that's okay in the far 23 world is that our our level we can calculate that we can calculate tip speed so let's say we set a tip speed there could be other calculated parameters so that's noise we're looking at that we definitely want it to be something simple and straightforward the other side of the house of course is the the elephant in the room is the stall speed and uh I you know I'm chairman of f37 we're writing all the standards for how to design these airplanes and we realize it's it's a challenge for the FAA to come up with where do we set this speed to create a safe product moving forward and what we'd like to do is have the speed but then also have built in there a future proof or is accepted by consensus standard we're already building these airplanes to consensus standards so if we could write do the heavy lifting in the consensus standard you know is it 54 with safety devices and conventional flaps that Define that in a consensus standard the consensus standard uh there's still a check and balance because when we come up with a standard it's written with industry with we have people there from the Flight Training industry users manufacturers and the FAA and other foreign caas sit there on the committee and we all come up to a common standard but at the end of the day FAA legal has to accept that standard so it's a safe means of coming up with the way to come out with a speed of course the lowest bark Sean and I'll be working together to come up with a recommended speed that everybody can submit to the docket you know the the same the same answer back to you Sean yeah and I think it's important to look at it from the 10 000 foot view pardon the pun with elimination I like it I like it you know as a sport pilot ten thousand you can yeah the reality is the FAA over the last decade or more has developed something they call the risk Continuum and it's it's essentially a curved Arc that places various elements of Aviation obviously part 25 and and 121 air carriers are at the highest point as far as how important it is to have the absolute lowest or minimum risk right passenger carrying operations very very important that you minimize risk and and have that done to the highest degree as you go down the risk Continuum to the uh to the the the lower operations that should be right sized as far as the application of rules and restrictions if you look at where part 23 is which is the long-standing set of rules that govern standard category certification for general aviation they're used for part 135 Etc and then as you go further down that's where you get to light sport amateur built and then ultimately the bottom is kind of ultralights right and they all have their place on this Continuum I think we can develop our comments back to this proposal in such a way that helps the FAA understand why they might have missed certain aspects and they didn't miss much this is a 90 percent well done thank you rule as proposed but these few items that we can we can help them understand maybe if you adjusted it just a certain amount X let's say we're still working on what that might be you'll better fit it to where it is on that risk Continuum and here's the safety case and the data that supports why it needs to be there so stall speed is a great example we can provide that feedback we can provide the the the safety case for that feedback and the data that supports it to show them if you make this adjustment you'll have it right on the mark and that's what we'll be doing over the next 90 days as this comment period comes to a close 90 days from the 23rd of July Monday when it first became commentable on on the fa doc or federal docket where did the term Mosaic come from well I'll give credit to the FAA for that we when we started this dialogue back in 2013 it began with a meeting 10 years ago wow that Jack Pelton and I had in 2013 at the small airplane directorate with the then manager of the small airplane directorate and we spent a half a day brainstorming how might we enhance general aviation and really leverage the benefits of what we know exists today in the light sport aircraft and Sport pilot World it that's where it started and there were also coincidentally having internal discussions along the same Lines within fa's aircraft certification and flight standards and we continue to move that that uh that that idea that concept what then became a strategy and every year at our fa winner Summit that EA holds in Oshkosh Wisconsin as well as here at the greatest Aviation event in the World Air Venture we continue to develop the thoughts in in the dialogue and so it became a true proposal for how do we draft this into an actual Rule and it almost died not once but twice wow and last year a great example it showed up on our doorstep of air Venture with us being told this rule is probably this proposed rule is probably not going to make it it's it's dead at this point and they're considering shelving it and we worked our tails off and I mean everybody Vance played a role yeah led the effort we worked throughout the week of air venture to show them through this wonderful Community that's here for a week in the breadth and depth of why this will be so impactful and by Thursday at the meet the administrator session the then acting fa administrator Billy Nolan announced we will have a proposed rule by next August wow and they actually actually it all came out beat it July 23rd amazing with the proposed rule I'm not sure I don't understand how the the red tape works is it pretty much now that we will get this rule at the at by the end of the the time period or is there a chance it could be killed still there's a a very minimal there there are a few examples throughout history of rules that either substantially changed or didn't make it to the final stage but few and far between and they have invested tremendous time tremendous resources and a dedicated fa team that crafted this it's gone through all the gauntlets already of the different lines of business including legal and over across the street to to Office of Management and budget and OST you know all the different federal agencies that have a hand in the federal rulemaking process have had a chance to look at this and provide input and and that's how it got to this stage so this is a major hurdle the nprm stage is amazing we've got cast a major we have we have now again there's not a hundred percent guarantee but it's it's very very likely it's just now getting the common that's right and getting the community fairly unified in what those comments need to be so that we don't flood the FAA with a bunch of scattered Concepts that ultimately either stall or or damage any significant part of this proposed role so if if the community wants to comment on this where should they go to do that and what can they say that's a great question we are going to as EAA we are going to put out a a specific email address in the next couple of weeks that will allow people that want to share their thoughts and share their comments with EAA so that we can one first and foremost learn from those and and consider how we can best incorporate those particular issues those particular ideas and then we as EAA will be putting out obviously a series of of Stories on our e-hotline and various EA Outlet social media Outlets that sort of thing to guide folks with the key points to be considering as they make their comments we encourage every everybody to comment to the docket that's that's part of you know being part of general aviation but we want to make sure they do so in an educated way and and hopefully get everybody as closely aligned as we can so that then the FAA is hearing really a unified concern and unified message of what the things need to be to make this final awesome if you share that with us we can put that in the description and if we post this before that we'll we'll find a news story or something to we'll help you get to work absolutely Ryan what else um what else is significant about mosaic there are things that had never been in the United States before so if we look at helicopters oh there's a lot of helicopters that you haven't been able to bring into the U.S before um this you know the standard that we're designing to isn't completely defined and that's the FAA holding out of hand and saying help us here okay comment period what should this really be but we will have rotocraft it sounds like and that's exciting and when you take a fixed Wing standard and rotocraft standard what do you get you get EV till right you get the basis of evil standards so there's a few companies that are out there working on EV tool helping us at the committee level already writing those standards so when you think of a two-place EV toll coming soon I could give many names out there but that's exciting that electric EV tools we have a pathway for those to get into the market going down further I think something that's exciting because we're here where a lot of home builds are where that's how EAA started of course they're much broader than that now but Elsa aircraft so you can build your aircraft as an Elsa and there's no 51 percent Rule now EAB will still be the same if you want to experiment but if you build it as specified by the manufacturer we can do a lot more for you as a manufacturer and you come out of that with a maintenance manual okay production acceptance procedure which tells you how to do the first flight along with the EAA manual for doing that and then the last manuals of the poh and the FTS so to have experimental airplanes that have that level of safety and defined systems like Sean was saying on the safety Continuum that's exciting and then there's the the fact that the airlines are taking a p mechanics you know mechanic big so under this rule at least for a lot of the maintenance you can go take a class and even for these airplanes in the expanded part of Mosaic they're built under that so 172 well not a 172 because it was certificated as a type certificated airplane so we're still talking experimental yeah or light sport or lights are new production light sport aircraft will all now you can do the condition inspection and that kind of right any airplane we release certified under this you'll be able to take a class and then do a significant amount of the maintenance yourself wow and that's transferable before you had a repairment certificate if you built an airplane and you still do under EAB but if somebody else buys your airplane now those manuals go with it as well as you can take a class and come up to speed on the safety level aspect and I want to give the FAA some serious credit here too as you read this proposal they really were Forward Thinking as Ryan mentioned earlier some of the things that they very purposely did not limit or or constrain with with overly prescriptive like weight and also number of power plants well you think well I'm not going to have a multi-engine life support aircraft and that's probably correct but yeah veto exactly now you got 16 rotors exactly you could have you know multi-propulsion systems set up that who knows what the future holds exactly they were very thoughtful as they drafted this proposed rule to make sure that we are not inhibiting or limiting those kinds of Innovations wow I mean we rack on the fa quite a bit in the ga world and so hats off to them yeah I know absolutely absolutely correct hats office dedicated team that works really hard all right well I love the idea that now Roeder gets expanded and everything else so does that mean Ryan we'll see a Vans RV helicopter it's rv-16 the RV 16. remember being here a couple years ago at Oshkosh and of course you attract all the best airplanes here at this show it's the world's biggest show and black fly was yep there in advance why don't we have one of those yet you know and well we only have so much time in the day and our focus is still on the the conventional airplane market right but we are working with those folks you know I have talked with a couple of those companies it's exciting to see yeah it is a different it's a different mission statement right and that's why as manufacturers we come here and we're all friends uh across the industry we work together as well as in the consensus standards we have a common goal and uh it's exciting to see it go forward well this is great news um this is going to revolutionize it's going to completely change the G8 it's going to fix a lot of the big problems from shortage of amps to the the way the expense of training and everything wow this is great have you had a delay on any of your flights lately you know through the country yes okay there's the answer and I've had I don't know how many delays in the last year at airports we need more pilots and I give one give a shout out to um lyrio Lou Who really she's the head of aircraft's third um she only came in a little over a year ago and she has really guided this rule to the Finish Line wow and her main objective is to get these into flight schools so we can have more pilots come into the industry and replace that problem so I'd add to to what Ryan just said about about lario she really did she she was the absolute spark plug within the agency but it started here it started with her visit to air Venture last year as well as the whole fa Senior Team and having the exposure to companies like Vans and others that really enabled them to go wow this is important we don't their shelve this we need to find a way to get this across the finish this is amazing all right closing thoughts uh Ryan we have a lot of work to do in the comment period but I think we were surprised how close we were when this NPR came out what we really need as a flying community I think a lot of people don't realize how this will impact them bringing the costs down of airplanes that you could buy after you have your Private Pilot or light sport certificate and uh you know increasing the ability for just a regular student uh you know there's only so many slots that the large flight schools right and it's the mom and pop flight schools that now can buy an airplane with excellent technology with a weight capacity and you know everything you need in a modern airplane and bring in students that that are you know at a disadvantage they we want to bring the rate per hour at a flight school down and I think we have a great opportunity to do that just Aviation wide we have a great opportunity here let's not miss it let's push this forward to the Finish I'll just I'll just add everything Ryan just said which I completely agree with all of those comments is that let's face it Flight Training and affordable Aviation is the lifeblood of general aviation in the United States it's what sets us apart from any other Aviation system in the world you know if you go and fly in Europe for example you see a very different yes atmosphere yep and and the ability to pursue a passion of Aviation this we are so fortunate in this country to have what we have it's ours not only to protect but find significant ways to evolve it and grow it and this is one of the most significant things to come into GA in decades awesome amazing well guys thanks for coming on and sharing um the uh the fine finer points of Mosaic with us thanks for having us you're welcome all right thank you guys for watching and don't forget uh you know we are supported we are able to bring this to you by our sponsors like MPS martial Protective Services we've got Z Vision the brightest Landing taxi lights 67 designs the best camera mounts and phone mounts that you can get for your cockpit and Colton mortgage Colton takingoff.com for your Residential Mortgage so guys Mosaic it's exciting can't wait to see the future if you guys want to see me jump out of an airplane subscribe to our Channel when I hit a hundred thousand subscribers 100 000 subscribers apparently Dan's pushing me out of an airplane so make sure you do that and comment below if you guys want to know more about Mosaic yeah and look for probably a follow-up video in which we'll give you the uh the links the EAA is uh extending that would would really help so spread the word uh ta is going to look even better we'll see you all next time in the hangar I am so distracted by the airplane and the helicopters [Music]

Channel: Taking Off

Views: 56,315

Keywords: aviation, aviation news, christy wong, dan millican, flying, flying news, general aviation, in the hangar, inthehagar, learn to fly, plane news, planes, taking off, takingoff, general aviation flying, faa mosaic 2023, faa mosaic update 2023, faa mosaic rules, faa mosaic changes, faa mosaic light sport, faa mosaic proposal

Id: 9zf4-zQcPfg

Length: 26min 27sec (1587 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 02 2023