>> AND WE HAVE PETER BAKER AND JOY SPENT STILL WITH US. JOYCE, I WANTED TO START WITH YOU. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE DAY BEGAN BEFORE DAVID PECKER CUT BACK ON THE WITNESS STAND, WITH THE MANHATTAN D.A.S OFFICE SAYING THERE FOUR ALLEGED VIOLATIONS, BRAND-NEW ONES, OF THE EXPANDED GAG ORDER, JUDGE MERCHAN SETTING A HEARING FOR NEXT THURSDAY. WE DON'T HAVE A RULING FROM THE FIRST MOTION FOR CONTEMPT? SO WHAT IS THE DELAY, BECAUSE WE NOW HAVE FOUR NEW VIOLATIONS. >> WE DO. WE HAVE ONGOING VIOLATIONS, AND THE ISSUE THAT THE JUDGE BASIS IS EITHER THIS GAG ORDER HAS TEETH AND HE WILL ENFORCE IT, OR IT DOES NOT HAVE TEETH AND IN WHICH CASE DONALD TRUMP CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO DO WITH REGARD TO THIS JURY, WITNESSES, OR THE COURT FAMILIES FOR THAT MATTER. SO THIS HAS TO COME TO A HEAD. THE DELAY LIKELY GIVES THE JUDGE A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA ROOM TO GATHER ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE, BUT THE STATUTE GIVES THEM VERY LIMITED OPTIONS. HE CAN EITHER IMPOSE A PENALTY OF A $1000 FOR EACH VIOLATION, OR HE CAN IMPOSE UP TO 30 DAYS OF CUSTODY. THERE IS NO ROOM TO MANEUVER BETWEEN THOSE TWO OPTIONS. HE WILL HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. HE IS APPARENTLY MADE A DECISION THAT IT IS BEST TO PUT IT OFF, TO HOLD SOME OF HIS POWER OVER DONALD TRUMP'S HAD FOR A LITTLE BIT LONGER, TO SEE IF HE CAN GET HIM TO CONFORM HIS BEHAVIOR OR ALTERNATIVELY TO PROVE THAT THE ONLY OPTION IS FOR THE JUDGE TO BEGIN TO IMPOSE SANCTIONS. >> YOU KNOW, PETER, ONE THING THAT STUCK OUT TO ME TODAY WITH THE TESTIMONY FROM DAVID PECKER THAT AMI PAID THE $150,000 TO KAREN McDOUGAL AND HE NEVER GOT REIMBURSED. NEVER GOT PAID BACK BY DONALD TRUMP, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS FOR HIS BENEFIT AND THE BENEFIT OF THE CAMPAIGN. BUT THEN AT THE END, DAVID PECKER HAS TO SAY I HAVE NO HARD FEELINGS FOR MR. TRUMP. I THOUGHT HE WAS MY MENTOR. I FELT LIKE , PETER, DAVID PECKER ENCAPSULATES MAGA WORLD. HE KEEPS ON GRAFTING AND HE COMPLETELY DUPES HIS FOLLOWERS. BUT THEN THEY SIT THERE AND THEY STILL PAY HOMAGE TO HIM. TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT THIS TRIAL SO FAR HAS BEEN MOVING THE NEEDLE IN ANY WAY IN TERMS OF PUBLIC SENTIMENT WHEN IT COMES TO DONALD TRUMP. >> YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT REMINDS ME OF A STORY I WAS TOLD ONCE BY A NEW YORKER HIS PARENTS WORK FOR DONALD TRUMP AS CONTRACTORS. WE ALL KNOW THAT DONALD TRUMP IS NOT ALWAYS VERY GOOD ABOUT PAYING THE CONTRACTORS. I SAID THIS PERSON, DID HE PAY YOUR PARENTS? HE SAID NO, HE DIDN'T. DISCUSSED THAT I HAD TO SUE HIM TO GET THEIR MONEY. I SAID OKAY. HE SAID WELL, I GOT $.50 ON THE DOLLAR BACK. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? THEY VOTED FOR TRUMP. I SAID WHY WOULD THEY VOTE FOR TRUMP IF THEY BELIEVE HE CHEATED THEM ON THEIR MONEY? HE SAID WELL, IF HE CHEATS US, HE WILL CHEAT EVERYBODY ELSE ON BEHALF OF AMERICA. HE WILL CHEAT THE REST OF THE WORLD ON BEHALF OF AMERICA. SO THERE IS A SORT OF INTERESTING VIEW OF HIM AS SOMEBODY WHO WAS ABLE TO MANIPULATE THE SYSTEM, WORK THE SYSTEM, BYPASS THE SYSTEM, WHATEVER IT IS THAT SEEMS TO EARN RESPECT ON THE PART OF PEOPLE WHO ADMIRE HIM. AND IT IS KIND OF CURIOUS IN A LOT OF WAYS, IT WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU WOULD EXPECT. AND YET, SOMEHOW HE HAS MANAGED, DESPITE ALL OF THE EXAMPLES WHERE HE HAS, IN FACT, TRIED TO RUN AROUND THE SYSTEM AND CHEAT IN VARIOUS WAYS THAT HAS NOT ACTUALLY HEARD THE BASE COURT SUPPORT HE HAS. I DON'T THINK HIS BASE IS GOING TO BE ALL THAT TROUBLED BY WHAT THEY ARE HEARING. THEY KNOW MOST OF THESE FACTS. MOST OF THE STOCKS OF BEEN REPORTED BEFORE. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE, EVEN PEOPLE WHO LIKE HIM, ASSUME THEY ARE MORE OR LESS TRUE. THE ONLY QUESTION IS, ARE THEY LEGAL? DOES IT MATCH THE CRIMES AS OUTLINED BY ALVIN BRAGG LEXI DOES A GUILTY VERDICT CHANGE ANYBODY'S MIND? BUT THE FACTS OF THE CASE IS BEING PRESENTED BY THE PROSECUTION MAY OR MAY NOT BE ENOUGH TO CHANGE PUBLIC VIEWS. BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ASSUME THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE A LOT OF THESE THINGS, AND THEY EITHER CARE A LOT AND THEY THINK IT IS OUTRAGEOUS, OR THEY DON'T CARE AND THEY THINK THAT HE IS BEING PERSECUTED HERE. >> JOSH, TO PETER'S POINT, DOES THE EVIDENCE FIT THE CRIME? I MEAN, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE ON THE PROSECUTION IN A CRIMINAL CASE. DO YOU SHARE ANY CONCERNS LIKE SOME OTHERS HAVE EXPRESSED, THAT THE MISDEMEANOR CRIME EXISTS, THE FALSIFICATION OF THE BUSINESS RECORDS, BUT TO ELEVATE IT TO THE 1st DEGREE FELONY THAT IT IS, ARE YOU HEARING ENOUGH? BECAUSE I AM HEARING THE COMMON DENOMINATOR OF MESSAGING FROM DAVID PECKER, WHICH WAS EVERYTHING THAT WAS DONE, THE CATCH AND KILL, ET CETERA, WAS DONE TO BENEFIT THE CAMPAIGN AND NOT DONALD TRUMP PERSONALLY. >> RIGHT, I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH WHY WE ARE HEARING THESE NICE COMMENTS ABOUT PECKER FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT. IF HE CAN SOMEHOW GET JURORS TO HAVE THE FEELING THAT THESE PAYMENTS TOOK PLACE BECAUSE OF PERSONAL WARMTH BETWEEN PECKER AND TRUMP, OR THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE BEEN FRIENDS FOR A LONG TIME, THAT DOES START TO UNDERCUT THE CASE SOMEWHAT. SO WE WILL SEE, AS THE CROSS- EXAMINATION CONTINUES HERE, WHETHER TRUMP'S DEFENSE TRIES TO BRING OUT MORE OF THAT POSSIBLE MOTIVATION HERE. THEY HAVE BEEN FRIENDS FOR A LONG TIME, AND MAYBE AMI AND PECKER MIGHT'VE DONE THIS SORT OF THING TO HELP TRUMP EVEN IF HE WASN'T RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE BASED ON THE PRACTICES OF AMI AND PECKER THAT THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THEY DID FOR VARIOUS CELEBRITIES AT DIFFERENT TIMES. >> AND YOU KNOW, MARK, DAVID PECKER ALREADY ANNOUNCING THAT HE IS THERE PURSUANT TO A SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY, SO HE IS NOT THERE VOLUNTARILY. WE DO HERE TODAY, THOUGH, SOMETHING WITH IT WAS SURPRISING. WE HEARD THAT DAVID PECKER/AMI GETTING A NONPROSECUTION AGREEMENT WITH THE MANHATTAN D.A.S OFFICE AND THE NEW YORK COUNTY D.A.S OFFICE, SO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE IMPACT MIGHT'VE BEEN ON THE JURY HEARING THAT AMI GOT ONE OF THESE KINDS OF GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARDS KIND OF THING, BECAUSE HE IS GIVING THIS TESTIMONY AND THE COOPERATION HE GAVE A FEW YEARS AGO. >> YEAH, SO WE KNOW THAT PECKER HAS THIS NONPROSECUTION AGREEMENT WITH STATE AUTHORITIES. WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE S.E.C. HAD WARMED PECKER AND AMI THAT THIS KIND OF CATCH AND KILL PRACTICE DONE TO BENEFIT A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN COULD CONSTITUTE A CONTRIBUTION IN VIOLATION OF LAW. PECKER HAS CLEARLY BEEN SKIRTING THE LIMITS OF WHAT IS PERMITTED UNDER BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL LAW. NO SURPRISE THAT HE IS IN COURT UNDER A SUBPOENA. A LITTLE BIT OF A SURPRISE THAT HE HAS THIS HISTORY AND COURT THAT WE HAD TO LEARN ABOUT UNTIL TODAY. BUT I THINK THIS TIES IN WITH ANOTHER INTERESTING EXCHANGE THAT OCCURRED IN MANHATTAN TODAY, WHERE THE PROSECUTORS KEPT TALKING ABOUT A CONSPIRACY THAT PECKER WAS PART OF THIS CONSPIRACY, THAT ULTIMATELY ENGULFED COHEN AND TRUMP, PAYING OFF STORMY DANIELS. THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY OBJECTED AND SAID YOU HAVE TO STOP USING THIS WORD. THIS IS NOT A CONSPIRACY. AND PROSECUTORS SAY LOOK AT THE ELECTION STATUTES WE ARE CITING AND CLAIMING TRUMP ATTEMPTED TO VIOLATE. THEY USE THE PHRASE CONSPIRACY. SO IT IS PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE FOR US TO USE IT. AND JUDGE MERCHAN AGREED, I THINK RIGHTLY SO. I THINK WITH THIS TESTIMONY IS DOING IS SETTING UP FOR THE JURY THE SENSE OF HOW THIS WORKS IN THIS RATHER SORDID WORLD, SO THAT WHEN IT COMES TIME TO DRILL DOWN ON THE STORMY DANIELS PAYMENTS, THEY HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF ALL THE MOVING PIECES HERE. AND WHEN THE PROSECUTORS ARE LAYING OUT THE STEP-BY-STEP OF THE STORMY DANIELS PAYMENTS, THEY WILL SEE THAT THROUGH THE LENS OF A SIMILAR CONSPIRACY. BUT IT IS NOT JUST A KIND OF CD TABLOID SCHEME, BUT RATHER A CRIMINAL EFFORT TO SKIRT CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS AND STATE ELECTION LAWS TO INFLUENCE AN ELECTION ON BEHALF OF A CANDIDATE. THAT IS UNLAWFUL UNDER NEW YORK STATUTE, AND THAT IS WHAT ALVIN BRAGG SAYS
