Ex Mormon Files - 330 - Cindy Allred

can a Christian asking a Mormon to read the Gospel of John make a difference next on the ex-mormon files [Music] hi and welcome to another episode of it's Mormon files I'm your host Bishop pearl and I appreciate you joining us again and today and for the next week or two we're going to be introduced to just a wonderful couple and to begin with we have Cindy Allred here to share her story and thank you for coming and sharing and you're quite new out of the church is that true yes very new less than they hear at this point my goodness but it's been quite the journey hasn't it yes well we are as we do would like to start with a little bit about your background where you're from and what's your what's your a little bit of history where were you born and I was born in Caldwell Idaho and I'm the youngest of my family quite significantly younger I had teenage siblings when I was born mm-hmm it can be challenging huh right but they were planning on me I wasn't as surprised and my parents made a big point of always saying this is our bonus so I always was very much loved and I felt the love from my parents and from my siblings to growing up and then I always looked up to them and watched how they lived their lives and they said a good example I suppose they set great examples or they LVS where they raise your family our our family is all LDS okay and in fact you have quite a background I believe on one side of the family right the parents grandparents great-grandparents and beyond so my through my mother's line we're descended from the brother of Joseph Smith senior his name was Silas oh my goodness how many brothers did Joseph senior have you know you know I don't remember exactly how many literally Silas was there right and you descend from him so you've done a lot of family who's well I haven't done a lot but there's been a lot done in my family and so it's always one of those things that I needed to work in to my schedule and I I had very little time to do it but I it was always there nagging at me you need to do more so you did the active things for young people and mutual primary mutual right and I attended primary in Caldwell and something interesting that has come to mind as I've been on this journey is that in primary we studied the New Testament that was our course of study right and we each received our own New Testament a little larger print than usual so it was easy for children to read and we went through the entire New Testament we had our little red pencils and we marked scriptures and we really did study about Jesus wow that's interesting and I think that I guess that foundation has been helpful that foundation was very meaningful for me yeah right yeah so then later you go to seminary yes yes I graduated from four years of seminary would have taken more if more years were offered and then after graduation from high school I attended Rick's college and I took probably more religion classes than I needed to take just because that's what that's what the program was and did you study the Bible even more at this point or did you start I mean I'm sure you read the book of Mormon as well mostly it was Doctrine and Covenants and Book of Mormon a little bit of Bible but it seemed like each time we would study the Bible it would be mostly the verses that supported things in the doctrine in it's and so it was cross-referenced wasn't really a study of the Bible as much as just supporting like you say the doctrine of Mormonism right yeah it was principles of Mormonism with supporting documentation you know that had been pulled from the Bible now do you I guess you had always planned on marrying in the temple absolutely sure no other place to marry Mary returned missionary and all that right and was encouraged never to date anyone who wasn't marriage material so I didn't you didn't talk no so what how old were you when you started when you met your husband well we met very young I was 12 and he was 13 my goodness in the same Lord yes and this was in Rexburg Idaho my dad passed away when I was 12 my mother wanted to move to her hometown and so we did we moved to rexburg and during the first month or so that I was there Dave was taking a shortcut through the backyards and most people in Rexburg at that time did not have fences so it was very common to capture through the yards yeah and I was either taking clothes off the clothesline or putting some on and he showed up in the backyard that's how we met and did you have any sense that this would be a lifelong companion or at that point no he was just eggs it was cute guy and we made friends and oh it's fun a group of kids would get together each evening we with our baseball mitts and bats and we'd play ball at a school that was close by an elementary school and all the kids in the neighborhood that were available would show up and we would just have a great time playing Wow well eventually it gets a little more serious with that during high school or after high school it was during high school yeah but we did hold hands in junior high sometimes you remember that right yeah he was my first formal date yeah and I wasn't yet quite 16 so when he asked me out I said she won't let me go I'm sure of it and he persuaded me it took quite a lot of persuading for him to persuade me that I could risk asking her because I didn't want to make her mad by asking something I knew the answer was no mom would be mad at that right well anyway so you end up going together for a while I guess he goes on a mission yeah we'll learn but we did it and then he served a mission in Brazil right so then and while he was gone on his mission I was studying at Rick's College okay so I graduated from two years of Rick's college it was a two-year college at that time yeah and then he came home from his mission okay and then well that was in 1975 wasn't it and he proposed it was just a couple of days after he got home he'd been thinking about you a lot I guess that's right what a love story that's just awesome yeah so that was in May he proposed yeah and we got married in August of 1975 Wow Idaho Falls temple in the temple right and that was a live session than you were telling me earlier right it's a live session what did you think of that when you went you know it was of course I had no idea what to expect but it was very different than what I could have imagined and it was puzzling but I looked around me and there's all my extended family my mom and my brother and his wife and my sisters and their husbands and my aunts and uncles and they're like all delighted and we've all this is this is just great and what we do so I thought well I I guess I'll figure out what's so great about it it didn't seem so great but yeah I put on that happy face and said yeah sure here we go I know the feeling yeah so you raise a family and you I guess have children and you're just active in the church right very active all of all of the callings that came our way we accepted them dare I read this list I just think it was so impressive that I mean this is what what Cindy's done of course married in the temple she was released society counselor secretary chorister reduce society teacher visiting teacher teaching coordinator young women's president secretary teacher primary president counselor secretary teacher chorister baptismal coordinator taught almost every class in primary award music chairmen choir director librarian stake Relief Society counselor and homemaking leader now you're a bishops delight you were a person that just didn't say no did you no cuz we we wanted to please God we wanted to do the right thing we had three children for a while we lived in Broken Arrow Oklahoma we were there for six years and of course that was the mission field and we were delighted to be there dave served as a counselor in the bishopric during that time there just isn't any question in our minds your mind that the church was wasn't true right it was just it was our whole culture it was our life yeah it wasn't everything we knew every decision we made was made because of our membership in the church it was the most important thing ever to us so you get back to Idaho do you or you where do you go from Oklahoma from Oklahoma we came to Utah and I kind of wondered about that at the time but initially Dave wanted to extend his schooling and he got it set up to go to BYU and we'd had our third baby at that time and so he was about two weeks old when we made the move nothing worked out well at all everything just tell me back to you tell you fell to pieces really everything that he had lined up for his schooling at BYU his work the place we were going to live everything just dissolved and we kept trying to make it work but it just was a mess and I was overwhelmed with three little children or and felt so much stress about it and that was the first time we'd ever been in a ward and we hadn't been welcomed to at the moment open arms and there was this in Orem Utah Cal it was actually Pleasant Grove okay and I've often said since it wasn't very pleasant Pleasant Grove no I think they were overwhelmed with too many married students and BYU students right and they just didn't okay get in line yeah you know and it didn't feel good yeah how long did you live there it was about six weeks I think I was it all right then where did you go I said to Dave one night when I was completely just distressed over it I'd been to the grocery store and and no one would even look at me no and I that just Justin hurt my feelings I think feeling them yeah I didn't feel right about it we weren't supposed to be there of course it didn't mean the church wasn't true of course no in the church was still true no but I just felt we weren't supposed to be there so I said to him we can't stay and the next day he flew back to Oklahoma to Tulsa and he met with the people he had worked with there he got his not his old job back because they had filled it but they made a position for him no they liked him so much that's so they made a position for him so he got a job and bought a house in one day oh my goodness how long did you live there then then we were back there let's see I think that was about four years mm-hmm yeah okay and after Oklahoma and again you're active in the church this whole time variations in your family yeah properly and alright stuff so then what happens you we had a business and the oil industry tanked out during that time our business wasn't oil related but all of our customers were yeah and so we had the feeling that we needed to move back to Utah well and it was good that we did because it gave our children the opportunity to have some time with their grandparents they were here in Utah right so we lived in Brigham City and our children went to school in Brigham City and are they all but the last one graduated that the two older ones graduated from boxelder okay well gosh so we're again still active in the church and what year would this be that you when did you leave Brigham City let's see we lived in Brigham City from 1985 until our daughter graduated high school in 1996 okay so you were there till then right anything particularly about the church come up that ever challenged your faith or thought process nothing nothing that was ever a concern to me from early on from childhood whenever I heard that there was such a thing as polygamy that didn't sit well in fact it just made me sick to my stomach any thoughts of it and of course both sides of my family had believed had been involved in polygamy because they were very active and diligent in their belief in the church and so they practiced polygamy beautifully and yeah yeah they did so my superhero was always Wilfred whatever because he was the Prophet that issued the manifesto that there was no more polygamy he was your hero yeah my superhero really I would always say that he's my favorite prophet what did you think about the idea that we would live it later or in heaven Wow the celestial kingdom I was always told it it won't it won't come about and if it does you'll feel good about it mmm and I was like no I will not feel good about it and I had told Dave if this ever comes down that that's what we have to do I'm out there's there's no way I'm gonna you're not even gonna wait for the explanation you're just out no I'm not sharing my husband well supposedly the wife has the first wife has the right of refusal but right that didn't work out well for him a Smith but right I've learned that yeah that's well so tell us about your journey here a little bit what what kind of got you thinking we started out telling you telling everyone that a Christian at a challenge due to read the Gospel of John is that right on and well I had been this young man's primary teacher and we had developed a friendship that we had kept going years after and one day he said to me read the Gospel of John just in a very serious tone and I said okay yeah I'll read the Gospel of John so I did and about a week later then the two of us discussed it and he told me things he loved about the Gospel of John and I said things that I loved about the Gospel of John and and you know then it just it was very natural and no one was this easy it was about three years ago oh that reasons it or okay somewhere around three years ago it wasn't something that I you know flagged and said hey this is a red-letter day or anything it was just the normal part of life you think God was maybe softening your heart a little bit or was there any of that going on now that I look back yeah I think he was softening my heart you know making me ready getting ready alright so what actually does kind of tip you a little bit well I read the Gospel of John several times because mark would say read the Gospel of John and I'd say well we did just read it well read it again okay we would read it again and and we kept discussing it and this went on for about a year or so before anything else showed up but one day in the fall of 2017 our youngest son Spencer who lives in Las Vegas he called and said mom I'm preparing this lesson on church history I'm I'm doing some reason so that I'm ready for it because if questions come up he's like us he's very thorough and he wanted to be ready to answer this was gospel doctrine class it was gospel doctrine right he was a Sunday school president but he felt like he shouldn't be asking people to teach if he himself wasn't willing to teach so I put himself on the rotation so he was teaching about once a month okay did he ask you to read along with him or what happen no he said as he was preparing this he he came across some conflicting information about history and he wondered what I thought about it and so he asked me some questions and so I gave him the answers that what I had been taught what I had taught my children what I had taught in primary four years and he said would it surprise you if that that's not really what the church is publishing about the history now and I said well yeah yeah yeah that would be very surprising and I said where have you found this it kind of made me worried then he had read something he shouldn't have been reading yeah and we don't do that no of course not no but he sent me a link for the church history essays and said you know this was where he'd found the information and he asked me to to look into it while I looked at it and saw that there were 13 of those essays I was really busy I was too busy to take time to read all of them so I said to him I'll read two of them I'll read the first vision and I'll read the translation of the Book of Mormon because really if there's problems with those two now those are kind of foundational right - well everything else is going to hinge on though sure so if there's not problems there then you know everything else can be worked out so I read the first vision one first and right away I realized why he was having distress things you'd never heard before considered yeah I had I'd not been aware of the various versions how is it that you go through seminary Rick's College Institute classes you teach and we're taught and sacrament meetings and general conferences and we don't know this stuff how is that don't home yeah so that that was the thing that perplexed me so I went all through that essay and I started comparing it back and forth because I had a whole bunch of church history books and and I I compared all each individual thing and I'm like this is this is not the same what why are they saying this who wrote this does the church do the leaders know that this is out there and it's on lds.org list yeah yeah that was my first thought oh my goodness someone has hacked their church website oh did you yeah I presented this is official doctrine but this is somebody attacked the web right yeah that's funny I was pretty sure that the leaders of the church the Twelve Apostles the First Presidency yeah I was sure they couldn't know about that amazing amazing so did you you continued studying thinking listening yeah right yes I dived in deep I read every essay I followed every footnote I was just Apollo was David wear this you know he noticed that Spencer and I were talking a lot on the phone about every day and we were conferring and he said what's up with you and Spencer and I said well there's these essays and perhaps you would like to join us reading and his attitude was no I'm not reading any essays because clearly I was upset you know so he didn't feel like he needed to get upset well Cindy gosh we've almost running out of time here and one thing I wanted to make sure you you had a little verse or some things that you wanted to read I did I did fall in there because when everything fell apart for me and I mean everything fell apart Earl yeah it was like an earthquake and there I was in the middle of a pile of rubble and dust everywhere from the devastation it's just shocking isn't that time I was sobbing my eyes out and I realized there's nothing left there's nothing left hmm and I've never felt so low and then there was just a very quiet thought that surfaced and I realized that those ancestors of mine who joined early on in Mormonism they had been Christians true before they got involved and they had Bibles and loved Christ and I said out loud I'm gonna hold on to Jesus for all I'm worth and that was that was what saved me right there on that spot I was sinking into the abyss and so here's here's my message that comes out of all of it give yourself some time to think about what is a value to you do you value truth do you want to know God and his truth don't take my explanation or anyone else's experience over your own thoughtful consideration of truth do think deeply pray for nothing but the truth and genuinely start trying to grow closer to God and his truth you'll be overwhelmed at the love mercy wisdom and truth you'll find and it's right here in the Bible it's so beautiful I appreciate you sharing that I guess I'm just wondering why it is that Mormons don't know their Bible better and why so many that do leave become atheist or just give up on everything if the only true church isn't true then they just give up on everything why were you why do you think you were able to transition with Jesus this way I think because I had read the Gospel of John I think because my parents read the Bible with me as a child and because I studied it in primary I think he did my deep down I knew there was something wonderful about the Bible yeah and I had my doubts about it because of the eighth article of faith as far as it's translated correctly but I think that's it and you know I've learned since reading the Bible exclusively with no cross references and no other agenda just reading it as a little child and really that's what we are we are little children I say we're baby Christians because we know just a little bit I wouldn't say that I'm a seasoned Christian by any stretch of the imagination we we just had to start over from the first step but it's a joyful journey isn't it it's so joyful there's such a freedom in knowing what Jesus did for us that we couldn't do for ourselves and right we I would have said we understand grace there's a Mormon as you say that we didn't know I didn't understand anything about grace until I started reading it in the Bible with no other no thanks without the Mormon filter right no just just straight and now I can't wait to start reading every morning is that right yes it's just so beautiful yeah and and just yesterday there was a verse that hit me from John it's chapter 6 verse 28 and 29 then they asked him what must we do to do the works God requires and you know that was always on my mind God's requiring a lot of work from me and I was working diligent so this would say stuff like going to the temple pay your tithing and all that what does Jesus say his answer is so simple jesus answered the work of God is this to believe in the one he has sent that's it they visit that's all yes so beautiful so simple right yeah that's the work yeah there's nothing in there about all these other duties that I I always felt exhausted worn out but I pushed pushed pushed to do more well Cindy thank you so much for sharing your story and we're going to get a chance I think to talk to Cindy a little bit later you know you know a few more posts or a few more interviews so but we really appreciate you sharing that and your delightful lady and I just I'm so grateful that you were able to bring Jesus along in this journey actually it was Jesus who brought me I knew you'd say that yeah but it's just so it just seems like it's such a difficult thing for so many LDS - to keep Jesus with them I'll tell you Earl I was the least likely candidate to walk out of Mormonism the least likely of anyone I've ever known I'm probably the least likely and weren't we proud that we were that way I was so arrogant Cindy thank you so much we'll see you next time on the ex-mormon files [Music] [Music]

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Length: 33min 9sec (1989 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 13 2019