Ex Mormon Files - 297 - John Bringhurst

I sang that song for more than 60 years a song of praise to Joseph Smith the founder of the church I served as a bishop I was a faithful latter-day saint jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth will make you free I realized that I was following the Gospel of Joseph Smith and not the gospel of Jesus Christ many others have made a similar journey into an authentic relationship with Jesus and that's what this show is all about people who want to share their story so if you're a latter-day Saint seeking a genuine encounter with the Savior we have a joyful message that we want to share with you hello and welcome to another episode of the ex-mormon files I'm your host Bishop Earl appreciate you joining with us and I'm really excited today to introduce to you John bring Hearst we have so many things in common with our stories and so I think you'll really enjoy John's journey it's good to be here yeah it's good to be here are you are you a native salt lake person or where are you from you know I was born in Salt Lake my family yeah actually and my family moved to Idaho when I was pretty young I was about eight nine yeah so had some early on roots here yeah brothers and sisters how many of you go I'm the youngest of six Oh okay so I've always had the youngest venality the spoiled one is that okay yeah youngest of six yeah all great people active in the church really your folks yes but my dad I would say would be inactive he served in the war World War two okay went on a mission actually prior to that and then was immediately after he came home was drafted anyway that's a long story but yeah he came out inactive and and was apparently inactive until I was about five and then we went through the temple oh and I do remember that actually you do it at age five I like going in and be sealed I have a memory of that being in the Salt Lake Temple oh yeah how about that and so you were raised LDS and full-on ring you know although when I was young we did a lot of camping on the weekends yeah which I'm very grateful for actually and yeah more so when we moved to Idaho we we were very active okay so I guess baptized and baptized at a deacon teacher priest it at all well served in the chorim's seminary and all I did seminary I graduated seminary you know and I think back of my testimony which may be a question you'll get to but one of the things I would always say is I my first day of seminary they it was the year Book of Mormon teaching the Book of Mormon and I recall going home after that very first day of seminary as a 9th grader and taking the Book of Mormon and going on my little motorbike and and hit out on the canal and and praying it really and and the answer I got was read it was to just read it yeah and but but of course I use that as my testimony sure church is true because yes I was given an answer yeah no I know what that answered me and really meant yeah interesting as we look back and see things you end up going on a mission I did went to up to Rick's college for a year prior yeah oh you did yep prior to my mission trees back then right BYU I can 82 83 yeah I met Diane actually two months before I left and she was sort of in my wife instrumental in helping me go really and and she waited for you I waited for her and one of the success stories they that very few of those I think yeah I don't know was she at school then - yep so you went to where did you go Arizona Tempe mission spend time in Mesa in Tucson oh yeah yeah great mission I really enjoyed it yeah had a lot of success you know baptized several people and yes made some relationships and just really really never doubted you know this is who I am this is what I know you know and and I guess is really the issue is what did we know yeah looking back I didn't know anything I really didn't you know we knew we knew this story I knew that I knew the narrative that we were taught and that's what I believe retell that story over and over the first page and all that stuff great story yeah how many times I loved around that big projector probably 50-pound projector yeah showing the first little slideshow was it or a specific movie it was the Stewart Peterson oh yeah first vision mm-hmm that was that was my testimony so you come home and come home Diane's waited for you five months later we got married really Wow Salt Lake Temple and she's got kind of stories she'll probably want to relate about yeah we get to meet her names but you know we we just we were we were full believing you know we just did it all yeah wasn't amazing and and children you had how many five children five yep five kids and just doing the Mormon thing huh and this was still in Idaho are you still at the hell we actually spent two years where we originally lived there and then spent two years in Kaysville actually working down here and then went back to the Twin Falls area yeah okay and so this goes on for many many years right yep yep good good Mormon boys and you had callings I guess all kinds of ghrelin tails off yeah you know I served in amends I served in in a bishopric as a counselor right in a high council you know diane Irama account I was on a high council and Diane was a really excited present we just you know we were just was there ever any question that came up during all any of this time or now that you look back anything on the high council or or anything that ever you know yes and she bring up the High Council that experiences on the High Council I mean I actually thoroughly enjoyed it did a lot of speaking and but oh yeah every month right every month you know there were there were some things there that made me think he knows is this really godly is this really christ-like what were doing here as a part of the Disciplinary Council for example yeah but going back maybe to to the temple and getting married and yeah when I when I first actually maybe a little bit back towards my mission I went through the Provo temple the night before my parents took me to the MTC okay and so you know I just remember that experience and looking over at my dad and my mom you know back then it was it was different than it is today yeah before 1990 before 1982 before the changes Maidan and and I just I just honestly couldn't believe this is what we were doing all this work up to go to the temple and this is what we're doing yeah and I knew prior to that but yeah yeah that was a little bit I open you at the time but you know you just you just carry on this is the way it is I guess and we'll figure it all out in the end I asked this every once in a while even about our missions but did you feel like you were preaching Church or preaching Jesus did you feel any of oh definitely preaching the restoration of the chair gospel that's what the message was and he was a Smith and and everything since then that was that was and get people baptized into the church and into the church you know yeah yeah I sensed that too later on I didn't think about it when I was not my vision but okay so busy callings and everything else so what happens in life well about 2013-2014 timeframe I I had a son that that left after serving a mission get married and and and it's possible that I honestly can't tell you why I ran into this this video online on YouTube called the five myths and truths why committed Mormons leave the church this is John de Lancie Owens video it's very great I mean it's a you know details of a survey that was yeah I ran into that and watched it a little and then the fear said and what am i doing what am i doing what is this I can't be doing this information that I have never heard of so so I back off you know a fear sets in and I'm and so that starts my mind thinking you know and what do I really believe you know and and it goes back to as a child you know we were we were asked to bear our testimonies and say I know the church is true and you know I didn't know anything about the church when I started saying I know and if there's one thing that I know now is it I don't know you know I know this so I know a lot more now than I ever did as a Mormon yeah and without a doubt yeah and so did you did you eventually research these five yes right I started little by little diving into what is this you know what is this polyandry what is what is the Book of Abraham problem you know Kinderhook plates what it what are the would have said yeah I I didn't know there was multiple visions of the first vision yeah I knew I knew over the first vision story I don't know of the ones not a great price right yeah and the one that Joseph Smith pinned isn't even close to what the Church teaches right so then I would have fear against ideon what am I doing here yeah you know I'm online looking trying to research oh I'm not supposed to do that I'm supposed to go off the manuals and here's the questions that you are to ask here's the answers that you are to get right and that's that's what they want do you think the church why do you think we don't know those things well obviously they're negative but what we do know is what's faith promoting and that's been the store that's been that's what the church wants us to know is what's faith promoting there's a lot more there's a lot more to it and it's very shallow knowledge like yours yeah I'm just yes yep so you know I some of the information that's kind of interesting that I started running into was on unfair Morman calm oh and I and when I first started seeing stuff there I thought I was on an anti Mormon cycle this was this wasn't the church society it's it's an apologetics for the church and I started learning more problems there then I along with you know other places but the essays came out you know and well I discovered the essays they came out in 2013 and really started studying the church essays right on the church website yeah yeah and it was then that I realized when discovering this new story about how the Book of Mormon was translated yeah with not not his fingers running over the plates which is it like flip charts that you use on a mission right but but with it with a seer stone in a hat and you know it's just a complete different story why didn't I know that yeah why wasn't I didn't know if that's the truth why wouldn't that have been the truth from the very beginning why wouldn't that have been the story from the very beginning very beginning yeah instead of well it may not be faith promoting so let's let's come up with this version which obviously is what happened the other I guess it is myth actually the first vision is the third revision of the first Buddhism that Joseph Smith pinned nothing nothing original no no no yeah you've oh you've got an interesting thing here did you want to share this a little bit about the book well part of the essays and the book of more in the Book of Abraham essay there's a quote and the quote is as John Whitmer observed Joseph Joseph the seer saw these records and by revelation of Jesus Christ could translate these records with a footnote next to that quote footnote 31 so what is footnote and this is a gospel essence run on the healthy as well okay so so if you look at the footnote the footnote then has another quote by Warren Parrish out of a letter to the editor which was to the Painesville Republican in 1838 February 15 so Warren Parrish writes this letter to these two this morning that's right and they pull this quote out of that this is the quote initials out and as a footnote as a footnote okay I have set by the side and pinned down the translation of the Egyptian hieroglyphics as he claimed to receive it by direct inspiration of heaven wrote Warren Parrish Joseph Smith scribe as a faith promoting quote yeah the problem is is you need to look at that document the tired document the entire document which the church references in footnote 31 in the Book of Abraham essay you know and if you and it's very easy to find that exact document and he goes on to qualify himself this is Warren Parrish as someone who knew Joseph Smith he knew he knew his character yeah and and a part of that qualification was that quote I have set by his side and pinned down the translation but you go on and he says you know I have been astonished to hear him declare that we had $60,000 in in our vault and $600,000 at our command when we had not to exceed 6,000 and could could not commit any more in relation to the bank that that was started up so there was some deceit back then but such has been the audacity of these boasting blasphemers that they have assumed the authority to curse or to bless to dam to save not only this church but this entire generation he goes on to say for the year past their lives have been won continued scene of lying deception fraud and that too in the name of God but this is a same document quote from the footnote 31 in a book of it they didn't include that in the footnote did they no they did not what avails the claim of such men to holiness of heart when there are examples to do violence to the system of morality to say nothing about religion it goes on and on but really this is the best part he finishes the document by saying but the most astonishing astonishing thing after all is that men of common sense and common abilities should be so completely blinded as to the ester dispensed entirely with the evidences of their senses and tamely submit to be led by such men and to countenance there such glaring inconsistencies and at the same time to be made to believe that they had God for their author he goes on to say you know their revelation is going to damn themselves so yeah I think that a covering up right a deception yeah this is where now okay now we've got a new problem trying to trying to deceive this is an obvious deception pulling out a faith promoting quote out of the document that's very damning to Joseph Smith I got a problem so if you start dealing with some of these inconsistencies and cover-up that's right you know an obvious one today you can watch Joseph Smith the prophet of the restoration this this very well done production that the church has out there and it finishes up with the scenic Carthage in Carthage Jail where in the movie you see all the brethren in the jail cell blocking the door as the men were trying to get in with their canes and then they start shooting through the door and then you know Jose Joseph and Hyrum are killed and yeah and and in the movie you see Joseph Smith going up to heaven essentially the problem is is here's John Taylor's real real story out of the history of the church vol 7 chapter 9 page 102 sometime after dinner we sent for some wine it has been reported by some that this was taken a sacrament it was not there was no such thing our spirits were generally dull and heavy and it was sent for sin to revive us so in Carthage oh they're having a little bit of wine you know and really why were they in jail why was Joseph in jail there was a lot of reasons yeah it wasn't because he was going like a lamb to the slaughter house it was because he running from the law right destroyed the Nava exposes another newspaper William law and Jane law his wife William was a counselor to Joseph that's a whole nother snow and now that was a good guy that William long anyway the Masons had just their the masonry well he would he'd been Mason and then he was getting having women he participated in the masonry stove yep yep they didn't like that there was polygamy going on which he never admitted to when he was alive so and so like you say you know more about more audience idea I mean we everyone you know and I guess the quote out of the history of the church that anybody can go to and read John Taylor talking about how after they tried to block the door Joan as a poultice ttle and shoots six times three bullets three three went off two people were hit and he says I was told were killed so you don't see that in the in the movie and probably a multi-million dollar movie production the church has put deal you don't see that just show them blocking the door yeah so so this is where you know when I started studying and realizing that only are there issues that are potential problems but they're trying to cover that up you know they're not telling the full story they're only saying what's faith promoting and and people are afraid to discover that so what kind of tips the scale for you at some point you have to say okay I guess yep this isn't true okay so in in May of 2015 I have a son gonna be getting married okay next year in the temple so I'm going for a temple recommend interview this is May of 2015 and when I go to the stake office I'm now being interviewed by the bishop that I served as a counselor to know who's now in the state president Nolan very well and I thought he would probably have an idea about the essays that are on the church's website that's why I asked him and at the time really I was seeking for answers I was seeking you know I didn't want this to happen okay I don't want the church not to be true I've got this true yeah exactly yeah and so I went there really seeking for help and I asked him tell me you you have to be bombarded with questions right now because of these essays that are on the church website and and and and I said that because I have had questions about these essays and he didn't know anything about what I was talking about tonight and I noticed that and just dropped it was that shocking that was very shocking and then I realize you know people don't know this stuff no they don't and they don't even know what the church itself is trying to put out there very subtly and in my opinion saying that they've been talking about it for a long time when they really haven't the essays are kind of hard to find you have to dig to get you know yeah you know they're under gospel topics by accessible topics yeah you can't even but you have to click several times to get to all of the information it's kind of tricky so these little subtle things you know and and in the in the essays about polygamy they you know I learned about Joseph's having many wives and and which you know you kind of always knew in the back of your head but I didn't know the details of it yeah you were teaching a primary class I was teaching of what happened with this guy and I were teaching a primary class this is January of last year and the lesson the the subject turned to in January of last year to church history gospel the Doctrine and Covenants in church history and in looking at the essay about the translation process and the first vision multiple first visions and yet looking at our manual it there's two different messages being presented and as you know in the manual itself you know you're supposed to hold up the picture to my ten-year-old primary class of Joseph running his finger across the gold plates and that's not how it happened and the church is even coming to admit that and so we actually went to the bishop and and and Diane will tell her story but and said bishop here's our lesson manual here's what your church assistant Ruth there's two different messages here and until we figure out what's going on here we may not be able to teach anymore and what did you say he said well that's okay why don't you just teach about Christ really well so we did yeah we did we just left the manual and taught about Christ did you start then that what did you think of Jesus as even even a year and a half or two years ago well just the typical Mormon Jesus right this your older brother or the Mormon Jesus is my older brother is the son of God who in my mind is is the messenger between us and God you know that's really how its kind of presented be our advocate yeah yeah so it's it's a it's a very different Jesus than the Christian Jesus yeah being God being God even though John 1:1 says that right which makes more sense to me because you know if if if I'm gonna if I'm gonna save the world I'm not gonna send my son I don't think and let him suffer I would do that myself yeah and you know just like if I want my kids to come home I don't think it's gonna be necessary for them to to pass a test to walk in my door differently more some handshakes and that's you know looking back it's just obvious wow you know our time is really speeding by as you can probably imagine but there's still several things the Bible I guess has taken on a little different perspective yeah you know where I am learning and if there's anything that I want its truth that has that's that's what I want his truth and that's where I'm going and if the Bible is truth yeah I'll get there but I'm learning it's not an easy journey and when you've been raised as a Mormon and have that background and that belief in a prophet and all this and we don't understand grace as Mormons we don't have an appreciation for the cross or the Bible and we come out we're kind of throwing out there and you've probably run into other people that have struggled to the whole rug has just been you know swept out from any in and but that's okay I want truth but you can't deny the what I keep calling the bad news but the things you've learned about polyandry on the masonry in temple and no and all that we we have we have a brain we have intelligence let's use it yeah let's not have the fear that honestly has been instilled in members of the church to not look outside of right of the box that they want you to think in yeah and and and start thinking start using your brain and researched the church is big on education will get educate yourselves yes there's there's a lot Gary the message of love in the Bible yeah is is my message now that's what I want guys well God is love yeah and so that's what I that's that's what I'm all about I just want to love people yeah and this is one of the most freeing things that I have experienced in my life but don't you feel less judgement you feel more freedom yeah do you feel that yeah I do yeah I noticed it pretty early on that I that I didn't have to worry about what people believed and knew I want them to know what I knew as a Mormon right but that wasn't important anymore it can't be afraid okay this one love people yeah you know and that's that's one thing that really helped me and kind of with the Bible things like the Dead Sea Scrolls and the archaeology for them for the Bible I mean those things are factual and true and you know Mormons have such a disregard for the Bible if it doesn't quite fit their thing it's just not translated correctly yeah you can't deny you know the fact that there's places in the Bible that actually exists yeah you can't you can't necessarily do that with a book or not at all so yeah without a doubt there's there's there's some credibility there yes well I can tell you're still learning as I am to trying to find our way in this crazy journey and just I wish you the best and I know it's a challenge but Earl it's been wonderful to get to know you and Carla you helped us tremendously you said you saw my 17 17 minutes was instrumental oh and Bray is gonna your courage well yours too former bishop yours to come out you know well we just were just so naive almost we almost feel childish now that we look back and think how we were so naive going through that process for and you did it for many years yeah it took it took time my wife is much smarter than I and she she was well we're gonna get to hear her next I'm excited to hear that and what she must have thought of you she probably thought you were off your rails right she did it we'll see you next time here on the ex-mormon files things [Music] you [Music]

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Id: PQ8TE6zM2i0

Length: 28min 30sec (1710 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 11 2018