Ex-Guardian Editor Alan Rusbridger on Julian Assange Extradition Case

this is democracy Now democracynow.org the Warren peace report I'm Amy Goodman on Monday April 5th 2010 Julian ass Sange released a shocking video at the national Press Club in Washington DC the now Infamous tape which Wikileaks titled collateral murder was shot in 2007 from a US military Apache helicopter flying over new Baghdad Iraq it shows US forces is killing 12 people including two Reuters employees s shama 40 years old and namir nor Elin uh he was an upand cominging Reuters videographer the video comes from the Apache helicopter come on fire keep shoot keep shoot keep shoot two things Bush Master two things we need to move time now all right we just engaged all eight individuals Raiders driver say sha survived the initial attack he seen trying to crawl away as the US Apache helicopter flies overhead US forces then open fire again again when they see a van pulling up to evacuate the wounded shma where's that van at right down there by that body okay yeah Bush Master Crazy Horse we have individuals going to the scene looks like possibly uh picking up bodies and weapons hey we need to stop that so we get down there Roger break Crazy Horse one8 request permission to engag picking up the wounded yeah we're trying to get permission to engage come on let us shoot a bush Master Crazy Horse 18 they're taking him Bushmaster Crazy Horse [Applause] 18 there Bush Master Seven go ahead Roger we have a black SUV or Bongo truck picking up the request permission to engage master Roger this is bsh Master 7 Roger engage 18age clear come on clear clear coming around clear try to clear I lost him in the I got him should have a van in the middle of the road with about 12 to 15 bodies oh yeah look at that right through the windshield that clip from the collateral murder video released by Wikileaks in April 2010 the van that had come to help the wounded uh was a father taking his two children to school they were critically wounded in the attack as well the video's release was followed by the publication of hundreds of thousands of digital records from the US military dub the Iraq War logs and the Afghan war diary in November 2022 five major newspapers that worked with the Wikileaks the New York Times the guardian lemand El payis and desigo released a joint letter calling for an end to Julian assange's prosecution they write quote obtaining and disclosing sensitive information when necessary in the public interest is a core part of the daily work of journalists if that work is criminalized our public discourse and our democracies are made significantly weaker unquote for more we stay in London with Alan rusbridger he was the editor-in-chief of the Guardian for 20 years he's now the editor of prospect magazine he recently wrote a piece that was headlined enough is enough it's time to set Julian Assange free Alan welcome back to democracy Now um that video that we just saw Reuters had attempted to get the video released because it showed the death of their two employees nir naline and SE shama and they couldn't get it released it was only when Wikileaks released it that they were able to see the evidence of what happened not to mention of the Iraqis on the ground can you talk about why you're getting involved with this case why you think it's so significant well that video and the battle to have it released is at the heart of what Wikileaks was doing uh you have to remember that initially the US government lied about what happened there in addition to refusing reuter's access to the video for three years they first of all claimed that the uh the helicopter had come under attack from insurgents and their second line of defense was that that all the people who were killed were in fact terrorists or insurgents neither of those was true and that is why you need National Security report Ing and the ability to uh sometimes delve into matters that are considered Secret by governments uh and that's why I'm so concerned about the the attempt to use this really heavy legislation the Espionage Act which has no defense uh to uh prosecute Julian um can you talk about the argument that we hear and the corporate media certainly in the United States repeated it over and over that he's not like newspapers like yours you were the editor of the guardian or the New York Times though he worked with all of you uh because he released names he endangered people can you respond to that uh I certainly can he he uh he wasn't the first person to do that there was another website that released material and it's now become apparent that he actually went to some attempts certainly to tip the US government off uh before he felt the necessity to release him now I mean we had disagreements about that at the time we weren't we weren't in touch uh and I don't think uh the five newspapers knew of his attempts to uh alert the authorities but I think it it's really a smoke screen for the way that certainly since the Edward Snowden Revelations which I was also involved in the US government the Australian government the UK government have all tried to tighten up uh the laws and their punitive Behavior towards journalists to try and um create a situation where no one will ever do that kind of reporting again and that that video that you kick this um interview off with is one illustration of why that shouldn't be allowed to happen you right Alan rusbridger why should we care there's no shortage of people who don't much um they don't like uh Julian Assange it has to be conceded he has a unique ability to lose friends and alienate people many in the media don't believe he's a proper journalist and therefore won't lift a finger to defend him it's not like you're a friend of his Alan no we we we've had well publicized fallings out but I think in the current situation you have to look Beyond uh the person um aange has famously fallen out with many people who have tried to work him uh but that's not the point the point is what is happening in in the legals here I mean the the way I I like to think about it is to reverse the situation imagine that you had an American journalist in London who had been working on say I don't know the the Indian nuclear program we know there is one but it's secret and suppose they publish something uh imagine the Indian government saying to the British government we need to extradite this American jist to put them in jail in India for breaking our official Secrets laws can you imagine the American government would allow that to happen can you imagine that extradition going ahead so uh as Jen Robinson was just saying it's all very well for people who think of themselves as proper journalists to uh sit this one out but the precedent that is going to be set by this case if he is extradited should worry everybody do you think it's valid to make a comparison for example with Evan gershkovich The Wall Street Journal reporter who's been imprisoned by Putin in Russia um they said he was trying to get military Secrets uh something a lot of journalists do try to do um what about the us trying to extradite and imprison Julian Assange found guilty for 175 years what did he do try to release military Secrets he actually did of the US government well Russia's an entire different kind of state um so I wouldn't want to make a direct comparison um but I think there is the problem about uh official secrecy uh and the nature of the ability that Edward Snowden revealed of now complete control and surveillance and monitoring of populations uh and uh somebody has to keep these people accountable they have the power of life and death over us have the power of captivity and freedom and anyone who's read George Orwell can see that that that that the state that has that power needs to be monitored and I'm afraid what the governments are now trying to do is to frighten journalists off uh in Britain uh you can now go to jail for 14 years as an Editor to do what I did with Edward Snowden uh and they've explicitly refused to allow any editor the right to a defense so you can't even explain why you thought this might have been in the public interest so the danger is that people like Assange like Chelsea Manning uh like the New York Times uh are going to be so discouraged from uh doing what they should be doing that that we will be that this this kind of activity will be completely blind to us in future very quickly Alan rer if you can explain what exactly you did related to Edward Snowden in that hard drive and let's remember that it was Wikileaks that helped Ed Snowden when uh the authorities were uh moving in on him in Hong Kong to get out of Hong Kong he ultimately ended up in Russia and couldn't leave the airport because the US pulled his passport but it was Wikileaks and Julian nange who helped him get out and talk about what you did in the basement of the Guardian government the British government eventually came to us and said if you don't uh agreed to stop publishing we will stop you and so was it was plain there they were either going to injunct us or they were going to send the police in uh so I told them that we would go oner reporting from New York because the first amendment is a very powerful instrument to defend the Press which is what we did and the the quid pro quow was that we would destroy the computers that we had been using in London I think that was just a piece of theater but it reminds us why the first amendment is so important and why why we mustn't allow people to chip away at these protections that journalists have I want to end uh with uh Meet the Press interview with Joe Biden then vice president in 2010 ABC host David Gregory questioned Biden about Assange should the United States do something to stop Mr Assange we're looking at that right now the justice department is taking look at that and uh um I'm not going to comment on uh on that process you think he's a criminal if he conspired to get these classified documents with a member of the US military that's fundamentally different than if somebody drops on your lap here David you're a press person here is uh classified material Mr mconnell says he's a high-tech terrorist others say this is akin to the Pentagon papers where do you come down I would argue that it's closer to being a high-tech terrorist he would argue that it is closer that Julian Assange is being a a high-tech terrorist Alan rer your final comment on what you're calling for now remember a time when Julian Lan was first working in Kenya releasing documents when even Hillary Clinton was making speeches about how this was the new form of savat publishing uh and was in favor of dissidents using the internet to release material uh that's all changed uh now um but I I think the world should wake up as to what the the nature of the threat is going to be to mainstream journalism if uh if this extradition is successful

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Length: 13min 49sec (829 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 23 2024