EWTN Bookmark - 2018-09-02 - Great Discovery (the): Our Journey To The Catholic Church

[Music] and welcome once again to EWTN bookmark our special guest authors internationally our Oldenburg geeta Aikman authors of the great discovery our journey to the catholic church published by our friends at Ignatius press welcome to EWTN and EWTN bookmark great to have you here and certainly with our launch of our EWTN Nordic websites recently it's great to have a couple from Sweden here visiting us and it's great as Catholics around the world let alone in the United States to be able to see the reach of the church and especially talking about a couple who were very much involved with the church but not the Catholic Church right off exactly my background is I became a believer when I was around 20 living in a very secular nation but with a rather strong state Church the Lutheran Church that church has been more and more secularized over the years I became a priest or a pastor with six priests in Swedish after and the chaplain at the University of Sola and then from there started a charismatic nondenominational church and got involved in the evangelization and missions and what about you big idiot so yeah I was a Methodist girl and brought up in India on a mission field right I read that oh so you only grew up in from ten years old right and then in my later tonight or early twenties I rededicated my life to the Lord and met a few years later now it's interesting because the four words written by a good friend of ours Cardinal Anders arboreus who did a series for EWTN a number of years ago we're very proud of him being named Cardinal in Sweden as I know you are as well and many people even non Catholics are proud of him being named now he wrote the forward to the book he mentioned that there was some pastor olegmon who was complaining about Pope John Paul the second when he visited Sweden that's what happened to be you was it yes it was definitely so what changed well it's this is a 15 year change but the background of course the the the Lutheran background was astonish the anti-catholic the charismatic free church movements Pentecostals all also were at least very critical of the Catholic Church so that was a part of our theological thinking and also our social and cultural thinking so the Catholic Church is not really on the map in Sweden it's always been a small Church and of course for many many hundred years was forbidden so that came that was something that we that we would lived win and with then of course john paul ii came to Sweden this was 1989 I think right exactly and so we had a prayer meeting where we wanted to be absolutely sure that he was if he came he should come and preach the Word of God and you know on adultery not historical position many years later I found a book here with all his sermons from Sweden so I flipped the one that I wanted to see you and I was shocked how evangelical not biblical and of course Catholic it was you know thanks but that's so but I would say I was not because we were not involved in any anti-catholic movements there are as you know but we were very critical riot point it's interesting to be in the forward as well the Cardinal mentioned about this book is a testimony to how two married people and it is utterly essentially emphasized that there are two unique people together but nevertheless with full respect for the integrity the other went through a demanding and deep personal process of testing and conversion so you did it as a couple but you had to come to it separately right yes yes we both of us we studied you know in different subjects I would say and withdrawn both of us were drawn strongly towards this that we longed for and we didn't know exactly what it was at first we thought it was maybe reconciliation with the old Swedish Lutheran Church but more and more we saw that no it's actually no steeper we have to go further and yeah but when it was parallel we went to parallel all the time I think yes we did and also the idea of for you to make a step like this not only stepping out into the Catholic Church you know in a country that like you said isn't very Catholic but you were walking away from your own church and ministry that you had built up how did that impact only your lives but also the people you left behind it was a thing that made me delay my decision because I was not I went from being very interested in the Catholic Church tried to use the knowledge I gained from the Catholic Church to understand that well this needs to be used in a context and I cannot just take it so we approached and came closer and then I started to wish that I could become a Catholic but really thought that I cannot because of the ministry we have until we finally came to the point where we understood that we had to be Catholic mm-hmm of course it's hard to secure a situation like that that everybody will understand that nobody will feel hurt so some felt hurt some felt some were very upset others were very understanding actually but people some people would say well it's your decision and it's a personal decision telling us a testimony but don't tell us it's the truth I see now also one of the points the Cardinal makes in the forward here he said one does not become Catholic for emotional reasons no absolutely not it has to be the truth that you're searching for we were searching for the original the the and it was hard for us to accept that Jesus found in the church on Peter many evangelicals say that what Jesus said on this rock I would be Richard then he's not meaning Peter he's talking about the word wrong so that was our position for many years but then more and more we so know he actually founded the church on Peter and his successors so there was a quite a revelation to us yes yes and also talking about we did earlier he makes the point that one who becomes Catholics should not do so because of discontent with his former denomination exactly and we can honestly say that the life that we have lived from 1983 when the Word of Life was founded and the missions program that expanded into Russia Eastern Europe and then on to other nations as well was something very fascinating for us we wanted to live for Jesus wanted to preach the gospel and to especially give the gospel to those that possibly never heard and we had those opportunities in Albania in Kazakhstan and in many other places so this was very fulfilling but in this fulfillment for me it became okay we saw these different congregations grow up some of them we were involved in others they grew up spontaneously came to us and wanted our help we started Bible schools and we tried to have leadership training especially for young pastors but the more I was working with this the more unfulfilled I felt that I don't have the answers to them and questions like what is authentic Authority what Magisterium I mean the even the word I didn't know that right but who would decide in matters of of of teaching and discipline and morals and and dogmatix well that wavers and that change for depending on what person so all these other people who of goodwill who feel directed by the Lord read the same Scripture hands have different whatever meaning so many different meanings so many different ways of doing it and so this came to I was saying existential problem for me are we really doing this the way the way we want to preach the gospel but are we doing it in a context that that the Lord is pleased with and is this what he wanted when the church was founded so those questions came to me more and more ammo now you expand it as you mentioned you did a lot of missionary working wind it up in Jerusalem now was that something that you were driven more towards having had that missionary background or was that something both of you felt called both because she has the background right horse and which is so good and so complementary so on and experienced but we were I think from the early when I became a Christian when I had a conversion as a young man missions were very strong immediately it's interesting too because we don't think about a lot of you know people in Sweden going out planting churches but the other thing was interesting about your time in Jerusalem is that you actually got to watch EWTN is that correct yes in Jerusalem at that time we'd come to a point where we had also the freedom we started a Study Center in Jerusalem but we also came in contact with Catholics everywhere in Jerusalem and in that situation we heard about EWTN and started to listen to it and it became like a catechesis for us well I don't know houses and websites and whatever you know you've got here Dennis Searby yes who says perhaps the story of Catholic converts in secularized Sweden will be seen as particularly attracted already believing Catholics but I'd rather hope that open Brigitta Eggman's Protestant brethren will also read it for shows a pastor's wife crafting the very real problems of ecclesiology and theology eccentric now your book was originally published in Sweden it's in 1 in 8 different languages now yes ok so have you found people like that Protestants reading the book okay many and it's gonna just more and more I would say so it many Catholics read it but I would say especially Protestants because this is a in Western Europe the question of how do we serve why how do we survive where do we go from here how do we get deeper it's very vital questions for so many pastors and it's almost like a frustration so we we have heard many many testimonies are of the book maybe that did not become Catholic but they became a better understanding of the causes maybe getting rid of some of the canards that are starting to search for themselves now you wrote this book together now you've written thirty books over the years now had you participated in those books as well or is this the first one you've worked on together no no I helped him with his books that proofreading and editing and so I've been engaged in but but he wrote them of course view I did some children's books right now in this book though you actually did you split chapters up or how did you work to get this together well we outlined the story and then we said well what is your point about this story what is your point about this so we compared will you surprised sometimes that you had different perspectives and stories there is a chapter where I read you're describing a situation and then it's not that you picked up from where he left off you actually went over the same perspective kind of interesting it is two independent stories in runway but they weave together because we're married and and it's one decision that comes out of it together right so what happened in April of 1992 in Albania that was a very fascinating time because after they are in curtain fell we had an amazing opportunity we had trained about 2,000 young people in our Bible School in Uppsala to be prepared to go out on evangelistic and Missionary teams then iron curtain fell and we had the opportunity go into Russia and into different parts of Soviet Union is in Europe and then we had which is a really unparalleled in one way opportunity to come into Albania while Albania still had a communist government there was one or two Democrats that it just came into the government so they were on their last stretch so to speak I mean you could sense that Albania was going to fall and we were we negotiated with the government to have to bring in a choir to rent a stadium and then we said that the man that helped me said well my pastor will wants to come down and have a little speech and so we did and they gave us opportunity to preach the gospel to ours there's only one channel in television only four hours of every day and we got two of those hours and to really fully preach the gospel to the whole nation and the president got quite upset tried to stop it but he couldn't do it they wouldn't let him now were you surprised in those situations how many people were either open to the message or in some ways still closeted Christians many close to Christians right now I know you talked about that one story and a one particular thing where the man come up dude said I'm a Catholic right exactly that was for me it should be because right in the middle of this we came down as evangelicals and charismatic sand I had no thought about the Catholic Church and here comes this manner is actually the Secretary to the coming president at that time and he was so happy an elderly man and said you know I've been to the meetings they were wonderful I'm also a Catholic right right and for me it was like but I think the Lord used this experience right it shook me okay I'm not a cat what am I so it went through my mind very quick quickly where I'm a Lutheran in in justification at least well but I'm also Methodist when it comes to sanctification baptism well I'm not a Baptist really but you know and this went like a race through my mind and I I thought all these different groups how am I going to explain this to him and that never left me right why do why are we so many different groups now you came to the States we both in the States for a period of time where you just were in the state you're on the States for a period of time I was okay and also chuck Colson how did he have an impact on me yes his book about his conversion came out early early 70s I think well in 6th is something like right after the whole Watergate mess exactly exactly and I was in the United States 68 69 when of course Nixon was reelected right so that was very familiar to me I read the story and I had just become an active believer but I had no idea about the impact on evangelical Christianity in America like this so that book that book meant a lot to me but also then he wrote a book about the wrote a book about the church as well and that book opened up for me that okay right we you have a you have tunnel vision in when you're in your ministry or in your organization and Colson helped me to see much broader right and I believe it's true the Coulson's wife is Catholic and the word always was that he probably would have converted at some point except he with his ministry and was going that they thought it was best for him not to necessarily make that final step now not to stay with you all but in Hawaii you had a very interesting experience yes about that that was very unusual we came there for some meetings and I woke up by jetlag I woke up very early so I took a walk down waikiki beach in Honolulu and there and and then I walked back and I saw this church and it was open and as I looked in because I want me I can just go in and sit for a little bit and as I went in it was full of people and they did something that I've never seen before but I later understood where Eucharistic Adoration right I've never seen that before but as a charismatic you know I mean we're very sensitive to how we feel in the presence of the whole disparity in the beatings and so on so I says this very strong presence of the Lord and I could not figure it out and it it stayed with me a long time and then I started to understand yes yeah I remember when you came back to the hotel room and said Howard jackass because you were sleeping in such a presence of God in this churches isn't that strange right yeah that's be seen that sometimes we would find as a Catholic give you but sometimes would go to another Church as beautiful as it was there was this sense that there was something missing this presence that wasn't there exactly exactly feel like yeah that difference like that so how was it did you finally decided to swim the Tiber as they say make that decision because again obviously you have your own ministry this is something you come come groups what about relatives friends parents I know your brother helped you was one of the ones who got you involved with the charismatic rule and stuff like that so how did you go about making that decision and then being able to tell not only people in church but maybe relatives and friends yeah we talked to a few when we knew now within a year we have to take this step so then we started to prepare our surrounding our sons for adult sons and they were not they didn't object they listened to us and one of them actually became a Catholic before us our youngest son he was really yes yes Benjamin it was mr. studying so he did that but and then we talk to our coworkers and prepare them and it was not easy but I think that it was not easy because they in their thinking and our thinking was well we have all this why should you leave that and some would say for something less I mean this was the idea with all this renewal me a renewal streams but for us it was the lack of the sacraments this was the really deciding and also the dividing factor either we have the sacrament so we don't have the sacraments if we have them than anybody can I can anybody administer the sacrament and what are they in essence and adding function and all these things we studied quite a bit so I had this discussion with a with a Catholic priest and I said you know if what you if what the Catholic Church is saying is true that you have the sacraments in the way that we do not have them then I want to be a Catholic and he was well maybe after you know he was well he didn't want to push it of course he wanted to mean bat-mite is right but for me it's the feeling that I'm outside of something that I definitely do not have and if it is if they are for my salvation right it actually hinders my salvation I need them right but you make the point and something that I think you said impressed you was none of your Catholic friends pushed you to convert they said you have to decide what's right for you yeah except Lee and that that was important to you that they reacted that way I think so we never felt we were proselyte never that the no forced conversion or just can't push us into something there was no triumphalism involved whatsoever and and they were very open and actually understanding of the work that we were in right but also of course seeing the the the problems with it and the lack of it and by letting us decide right now you were on a whole chapter dealing with Mary was a stumbling block for you yeah the biggest I would say for a Swedish cuz you know about even when you went to Rome did you kind of were interested in the architect things but there were all these Mary and it was disturbing to us then what so as the Swedish process you absolutely have to do research as he is is this so so vital with Mary and of course it is I know that now but it took a couple of years of studying st. Bridget's writings and her store life story and then more and more about Mary and to understand the great dogmas that differ between the Protestants and the Catholics with her Immaculate Conception perpetual virginity those things that normal Swedish Protestants don't believe and I couldn't become a Catholic until I understood and accepted this as a truth couple of years but it was an every cam moment when I saw it when I understood it Wow but for us it's because we have many friends there are no commerce for us I think Mary came up in the forefront immediately there was not like many parts I said well this is the hardest not and we will sell it the others we go exactly for us it was like we had to take care of this we had to understand this and if not we will not be able to walk so I remember you got very happy one day when I saw that it's not against the Bible you know as a charismatic we want everything to be in the Bible chapter and verse when I saw that this doesn't contradict the Bible at all but you can see so much about Mary in the Old Testament and the New Testament that I hadn't seen before but when the whole picture came together like a person no no pieces were missing it's all a great picture I was so happy right grateful also of course it changed our thinking of the scriptures that the scriptures that oh yes we believe the Bible is the Word of God but does that mean that we read it the right way right right I think that is an assumption that persons do we believe it therefore we read it the right way but we don't necessarily and and then of course the Sola scriptura understanding that everything has to be explicitly in the scripture doesn't have to John Henry Newman helped me a lot right yes right and you talk about the Via Media and how he started there and realized that wasn't enough for some degree even where you might have been at one point exactly yeah you know so when you're in Sweden okay so how are you received there I mean in a fairly secular country you may have some friends who are Catholic etc maybe there's a small group again but I mean how are you looked at as being well you're nice people but you're a little the fuddled or how do they view people there who maybe have your belief system at this point do you mean a secular people kind of view you who are dealing with you they think you're more been knighted than you were before or just just believing at all or are they interested in and wonder why someone like yourself would would make that decision I think this the last thing we've noticed that they're intrigued because for sure they know most people we came in contact understood that this was a big step for us and that it was another step that may we could have just east long got retired it kept on doing what we're doing and be opening commandingly open and so on but to take that step and to meet another challenge may possibly stronger than there were all the other challenges we've had that intrigues secular people who actually are searching for something exactly even if they're not sure what it is yeah yeah okay well we're sure that it was great that you wrote this book and we're sure that you've done wonderful work and continue to the people of God and certainly hopefully now in the Catholic Church and we look forward with our initiative in Sweden with our our website except to hopefully expand that Nordic Li and we're doing some other things in Germany and more things in Poland another place of the Lord is opening a lot of doors it's amazing all from buckle of the Bible Belt here in Irondale Alabama will be gone by that wonderful non Mother Angelica thank you much so much Brigitta an old Aikman the authors of the great discovery our journey to the catholic church published by Ignatius press available through the EWTN religious catalogue ewtn our c-calm is the place to find it you'll find us next time right here on bookmark [Music] you [Music]

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Length: 26min 45sec (1605 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 07 2018