Escaping the Build Trap - Melissa Perri

Oh how's everybody doing this morning good excited to be here I'm excited to be here so I'm originally from New York City this is my third time in Lisbon I love this city so I keep coming back to it it's pretty amazing and I'm really excited to talk to you this morning about what I'm really passionate about which is how do we set up organizations to be thriving at product management so I'm going to tell you a little bit about the scary trap that we get into called the build trap and how do we get out of it by building organizations that really thrive off product management so let's go back a little bit so when I first started as a product manager I really had no idea what it was I was told that my job was to go work with sales in the business figure out what the requirements for the product should be spec them all up in these beautiful documents and then hand them off to the engineers and the more detailed the better right because then I didn't actually have to talk to them so the thing was I was really really good at this I was really good at specifying documents actually this was one of the first ones I ever wrote and it was 21 pages long for a change password page so and I was told by my boss at the time that I was awesome right I was the best product manager I made the most detailed specs I made the best designs for it and nobody ever had to talk to me or clarify anything because it was all down on the page so I thought I got this right I'm a great product manager this is what I'm gonna do with my life I I'm really thriving here so eventually I left that company and I went to another one and when I got there I was told do the same thing right go out make the specifications figure out what we should build hand them off to the developers so I started working in that way again and I made these beautiful documents they shipped him off to her development team I was in New York they were in Nashville and I waited and three weeks later I got back the designs in the sari the fully developed product fright from them to test and I looked at it and I said mmm this is not what I specified at all like guys didn't you read the documents like I put everything here it's right here and all these 30 pages and they want that thing oh yeah I didn't read that are you kidding me like it was 30 pages long you'd think I was gonna actually read that no I liked skimmed it and then I just built stuff and now I'm starting to have a crisis because I'm going all right if if this is not working right if my developers are not building what I'm asking them to do what am i right what's my purpose in life what does product management really mean how do I do this and at that time too we were trying to figure out how to work better together as a company like obviously my developers were not happy with me they were like I'm not gonna read anything you say I don't trust you and we were really frustrated as well so now our company is trying to figure out what do we do how do we get people to work better together so I was told that let's burn all your specs because we're going add gel and we're gonna do this new thing and it's gonna help you work better together and you're gonna be faster and it will help collaboration and at the time though I didn't know what agile was right I wasn't sure what the difference between this and waterfall was and because we were so frustrated between me and my developers and our whole team right I said you know what anything will work let's just make this better let's let's all work better together and I'll be happy so we started implementing scrum right and we had very basic scrum fundamentals that we were using and it was very lightweight we had an agile coach on our team who was also a developer and he just introduced it piece by piece you know managed the backlog talked about what you're gonna do break it up into work and it actually worked really really well for us we started collaborating better I started talking to my developers instead of specifying everything in documents and we ended up being a really really great team we were the most productive team in the company we were really shipping things out and everybody was like look at that team that's the model of success right there so I thought we were doing really really well until we got on to one project there was a project that we started working on and we were trying to make dashboards for these sellers that we had so we were an e-commerce company that had two sides we had celebrity sellers who would pick out all their favorite products and things like home and healthy living and design and they would sell it through our platform so we would source it we would get all those things for them they would advertise it and then people could come on our platform and buy it so I was in charge of making this whole portal so that the sellers could come on and see how their businesses were doing what were they selling what was the most popular products what were people saying sounds reasonable right and I got to work and I did all the standard product management things you do so I went out I talked to 12 of our sellers I figured out all the requirements that they wanted to see everything that they think possibly wants and I designed this like multi page portal where they could get all of their business information and all of their comments and everything so we spent three months building this thing and we put it out there and I feel pretty good about it I was like look this is everything you wanted I put in all of the things that you asked for look at how beautiful this is isn't this a wonderful portal for you and at that time we started to use analytics tools for the first time ever we had never done that before so I had Google Analytics installed on the page now it's really sites watch those numbers go up so every day I would log in and I would watch for the numbers there was no numbers log in the next day I was like no no they'll come back tomorrow there's no numbers he'll hug in the next day and this keeps going on right four weeks after weeks and I find that nobody's coming nobody's using this product so I asked them I'm like I built you everything you wanted right you told me these are all the things you want to see why aren't you logging in and they went what is all this it's so complicated I know like I told you I wanted to see revenue but I really need to see his profit like I don't care about 90% of the stuff you shoved into this platform and again now I'm starting to have a crisis going okay if I built them everything they asked for right what is my job as a product manager and I realized at this time that I was stuck in something that I call the build trap right and the build trap is a pretty common place for a lot of companies where we keep building and building and we keep collecting all these requirements and we keep trying to figure out how we can build the world right but we never actually focus on what that does for our customers what kind of value do we actually provide for them and are we building the right thing so many companies are stuck in the build trap today but how did we actually get there right how do we all get stuck in this bill trap and end up in a place where we cared more about the things we produce rather than the value it creates well fundamentally I think there's a big misconception in companies about what value actually means right we value is a hard thing to measure and if you were in my workshop yesterday this is what we all talked about value is a really really hard thing to measure so instead of measuring actual value what we do is we place proxies there we do we measure things that are easy which are outputs right so companies think that the more specifications we do or the more stories we write the faster we code right like let's just make people's fingers go faster the more money we make but this is not a linear equation whatsoever right this is not a real equation so what happens though is because we think this way we keep adding and adding to these backlogs and we produce massive lists of requirements and stories and then our products become a hodgepodge of complexity right when was the last time anybody knew how to use one of these printers like I can't get this thing to work for my life right somebody was like great printers work fine but let's put a stapler in it right like let's put a fax machine let's make it do everything and now no one knows how to use it so this is still relevant from 1999 so we're making these really complex really really overblown products right and a lot of people think agile is to blame right because we go-oh agile is all about velocity and story points what do we do there and I thought it was really interesting I was at the mind the product conference a couple years ago anybody attend that conference before great it's and I was sitting next to Jeff Patton and we had one of the speakers who was a CEO of drift a company in Boston get there and he was talking and he says I'm not even gonna get into agile and like the whole room just like starts snickering there he goes oh okay I will get in Tasha I hate agile it's all points in velocity nobody talks about the customer and 2000 product managers stood up and applauded and we were like oh something's wrong here right fundamentally something's wrong with agile if all these product managers heat it right and for me I didn't quite get that because when like I said when I started using scrum and those techniques it helped me work better as a product manager help me work better with my team but what I think happens with companies is that they think that a job is gonna save the world right they're looking for silver bullets to fix everything and what they don't realize is that scrum doesn't have a brain right when you do agile or you do scrum it's not about what are the best products we could possibly build it's about how do we work better together to build that so we still need great product management foundations in order to be successful there so whether you are and one of the biggest debates right coming out of scrum is what's the difference between a product owner and a product manager and this one drives me nuts because if you take scrum away right if you take the motions of scrum away where you're managing the backlog doing all those meetings you should still be a product manager at the end of the day right product owner is a role that you play on a scrum team it is only one piece of the job product management product managers that's your job right that's your career and that's what you set out to be so managing the backlog doing those meetings that's just one piece of what you do but you still have to figure out what are we building right what is the best thing I could possibly build that creates value for both my business and my customers and that's what we have to get back to so I try to explain to everybody that as a system as a company right our job is to maximize value and the way that I explain how the system works is that we have customers on one side and we have businesses on the other and summers have problems wants needs that we can fulfill with products and services right but it's not until we actually take away those problems and fulfill those wants and needs that the customer realizes value there is no inherent value in a future that you ship until it solves a problem until it fulfills a want or a need and that is when the customers realize value and in return they give us value in exchange in the form of money or data or whatever it is that your company runs on and that's how we get business value so as product managers right our job is to figure out what products and services really maximize those two things the customer value and the business value that's our job is to optimize this system and figure out how we can produce the most value on these things and what we have to remember is that solving big problems right creates big value for our businesses that's what we really have to focus on so at the end of the day if we want to make a value for our businesses we solve the problems for our users so to get out of the build traps right we have to create a product management organization that really thrives on this that really helps maximize these two things and to do that you need a lot of pieces you have to first start with strategy right we have to align ourselves with a strategy that really optimizes for value that helps communicate up and down what we're actually building we have to look at our processes and optimize that to figure out what is the best product we can build and we have to create an organization that really supports that through its culture and through its structure so let's first start with strategy how do we create great strategies that really enable product management well I want to tell you a little bit of a story of a company that I worked with several years ago it was a meal kit delivery service so what they did is that they shipped boxes to people's homes and those boxes had all the ingredients and the recipes for the food that they wanted to deliver so you would get the box you pull out all the ingredients everything was there you cook a very nice dinner it was great so I came in to help this team and they had a very clear goal it was to double acquisition it was like we need a double acquisition by the end of the year and I said great and I started coaching them around how do we actually figure out how to get to those acquisition goals and we were in a meeting with our team and trying to plan our next experiment and the CTO walks in and he sits down and he's just kind of chillin there for a little bit and I'm going why are you in here and he chimes in in the middle of my sentence and goes no no no no like oh this is great but like what is your product strategy what are you building and I try to explain to him I said we don't know what problem we're solving yet like we don't know why people aren't signing up we've done an analysis we're trying to figure out how to get in touch with them and he goes no no no no no no this is fine but I want a document with every field you intend to put on the homepage everything you're gonna build so that I can go build a content management system and I need that by Friday so like go spec out everything you're gonna build and I'm going that's not a strategy right this is a wish list and I can't tell you what we should build yet because we haven't figured it out but most companies believe this right they think most product strategies are wish lists of features it's like okay let's just build all these things and that's our strategy and then what we do so we take all those features and then we put them in a Gantt chart which is just a lie right because nobody's gonna deliver these things on time so that becomes our road map and then we just lie to ourselves and try to actually complete these things so the thing that we fail to recognize with this right is that creating products is absolutely full of uncertainty right but when we start out building something when we start out really exploring something we don't know what's the right direction to go in very often and we have to take the time to do that research to do that analysis to talk to our customers to experiment to really understand that so product strategy needs to enable it and you can't do that if it's a plan so product strategy is not a plan it has to be more of a framework and I think the best definition I've ever seen of what strategy is is by a guy named Steven Bungay so Steven Bungay wrote the book called art of action and if you haven't read it totally suggested it's really good and when he says is that strategy is a deployable decision-making framework enabling action to achieve desired outcomes constrained by current capabilities and coherent lis aligned to the existing context so what he's saying here is that strategy is a framework right strategies a framework that allows you to figure out where am I now and where do I want to go and how do I connect those things and how do I give people the room to actually explore how we actually get there so in product management we use with our clients this kind of template to really set them up through product strategy so what we do is we start with the vision so what's the vision of the company right what's the vision of where you want to go and then we break it down and say okay how do you need to get there what's the most important thing you need to do to get there so we call these challenges what business challenges are standing in our way and then we break them into the product goals and initiatives right what things can we build with product or what problems can we tackle with product to actually solve that so when that CTO asked us what is your product strategy right we needed to reply with something that actually allowed us to explore so if we think about this meal kit delivery company right their vision was that they wanted to be the most convenient meal kit delivery on the market so something where people could get it anywhere they needed to as fast as possible with highest ingredients as well like the highest quality ingredients so taking that right we needed to line around this vision in this challenge in order to get there right in order to be our option of being the tuesday/thursday standard option with more convenience and with more high quality ingredients we needed to double acquisition that was the business goal because we needed to stay in business obviously so now my team is set up to go figure out how do we do that so product leaders right the job of a product leader is to provide the vision the goals and the guardrails right leaders of companies provide the vision of the company and where they want to go then we break it down into what are the goals that we want to hit right and then we provide the guardrails so that we say you know it we need to explore this area but we don't want to be this right and we don't want to be that so let's explore this box and figure out how do we actually get there so in larger companies we deploy this through a strategy deployment framework that kind of looks like this we've got this vision right same thing where do we want to be in five to ten years what's the value for our customers what's our position in the market with her business look like we have her strategic intent which was doubling that acquisition at this company that's about what business challenges we have to achieve in order to get to our vision and then we break them down into Prodigal right product initiatives what problems can we address to tackle the challenge from a product perspective right only with product and software there's a lot of ways to solve business challenges but what can we do as a product team and then options what are the different ways that we can actually address this how do we evaluate them so what we do is we deploy this up and down the organization and it's not something that gets set in a day right this is something that takes months to come up with right it's something that's continuous it's something that we're always evolving and we're trying to figure out how to get there and what happens is if we do this well if we set up a strategy really really well and create a good strategy that promotes alignment and the biggest issue I have seen and all the companies I've come in to help is alignment right we have a lot of people on product teams who are saying this is the most important thing I'm working on or we look across the teams and we're saying okay they're working on you know initiative a this team is working on initiative B this team is working on initiative C and what they do is a peanut butter everything right the peanut butter their strategy where one person's working on one thing and then nothing gets produced right because we're not making a big concerted effort towards things that are gonna move the needle so by getting alignment around what's our most important things right and making sure everybody's working on it you'll see more progress and you'll see better things delivered out to your customer so without that though if we do peanut butter strategy right what we see is teams going in motion right but we're not going anywhere and you hear executives say oh our teams can't deliver right they need to go faster they need to go faster and it's usually not about velocity it's usually about alignment so to escape the bill trap we have to drive high alignment through a good strategy framework that allows teams to make decisions and the thing about this too is that if you create a good strategy framework you're now giving teams autonomy on how to hit goals right you can now drive autonomy throughout all of your teams and allow people to experiment because they're all going in the right direction so the one thing though about strategy right is that you can't set it like I said in a one-hour or one day meeting our product strategy has to emerge from experimentation and research and data right you have to figure out what's the right direction to go in so the next step really is refining our process to support that strategy and figure out where we should go so when I came into this meal kit delivery company they had tons of ideas tons and tons of ideas nobody lacks for ideas and I said okay what do you think is causing this issue and they said well our photos are not enticing right we've got a picture of a steak on the website maybe vegetarians are getting scared like that's why people are not sending up we should be offering signup gifts the head of marketing really really wanted to put chef's knives in the boxes as a free welcome gift and I was really nervous about doing that because I thought people would stab themselves which they probably would have but he was convinced he was like no no no if we offer them a knife they're gonna sign up right we need to rebrand the signup funnel they had a new creative director who did a massive rebrand of the site and she's like the sign-up funnel hasn't been rebranded it doesn't look beautiful that's it that's why people are not signing up and then also some really good valid ones like maybe it's because they can't try it for free right if we gave free trials they try it they see if they like it it's great or our price is too high we were a very high price compared to competitors in the market and it's because we had organic food and higher quality food but the price was higher so these are all good reasons right these are all good solutions but we have absolutely no idea what the problem is we don't know why people aren't signing up so we're just guessing in the air so when we're guessing right we're not really being strategic about where we want to go so when we revisit this right and try to align around it my team is looking at this and saying okay if we're gonna double acquisition what is standing in our way of doubling acquisition why are people not signing up so we started breaking it down to our sign up funnel right and on our sign up funnel we went through and we realized that people were getting in there but they were falling off on one specific step and coming from e-commerce I'd expect it to be where you pay right because people will balk when you pay but it wasn't it was when they started to enter their address so they knew what the price was they knew what the product was they selected it now they're falling off when they enter their address and I'm going that's really really weird but we did the analysis and we found that if we really target increasing conversion rate when people land in the funnel we can get really close to our goal we had tons of people coming to the website they just weren't making it through so our marketing efforts were perfect right there we're doing really really well but people are falling off so if you've ever so we took this and we revisited it and we put it into our strategy framework and we said that in order to reach our goal of doubling acquisition we're first going to increase the conversion rate across all the platforms by a certain percentage by the end of q2 so that became the goal that our team went after right so the team I was coaching they said that's it this is what we concentrate on let's figure out how to actually hit it so we went back to the beginning and we started trying to figure out how do we learn more about our customers so our first obstacle is we don't understand why people are leaving right no idea why people are leaving and because they were coming to our site and not giving us any information before they left right we didn't capture any of their emails or their phone numbers we couldn't follow up with them so how do we get this information we're starting to rack our brains we don't really know what's going on and one day our lead developer Scott he came up to me and he said Melissa I found this really cool tool it's called koala Roo and what we could do is put a little bit of JavaScript on our site where people are falling off and when they go to leave it'll pop up and he'll say what's stopping you from signing up today and I said that's cool like I'm like won this is awesome I'm really excited about it maybe we don't put like an open text box maybe we do like a multiple-choice whatever just put it up there so within one week we had like 300 responses and then within one month we had thousands of responses like everybody was writing in this tool box and telling us why they weren't signing up and it had absolutely nothing to do with not getting a chef knife right yeah everything to do with I cannot find any information that I need on your website so the biggest thing 33 percent rate other responses where I can't find your food menu what food do you serve right like do I even like it and that was on the page but it was buried right what's in the box how does this work do you give me salt do you give me milk do I have to buy eggs right like how does this thing work I've never done a meal kit before some people said the price is too high right but it wasn't worded that way in the open text box right it said I don't understand why you cost more than your competitors so now it's a value question right how why why are you paying more for us if we're the same as everybody else and then there was other reasons but 33 percent right said I can't find that food menu which is basic right just things that we should do so we looked back and we said okay now our obstacle is that people can't find the menu right how do we dig into why or how do we fix that and if we went to her site right it was because the menu was hiding under this hamburger icon that was like up in this corner right and that was the only place that you can actually access the menu and only 2% of people clicked on it so nobody's finding the menu because we did a huge site redesign the year before and that site redesign was all about simplicity right and they made it so simplistic that they took away all the information so so this little culprit is what's causing 33% of people not to sign up so we did a test right we said we don't have a lot of pages on the site it's just a long scroll what can we do in just a week right like one week what can we do to expand that menu and see if that helps and we believe this is a navigate problem right let's figure out how to tackle it so we did this we put menus up there because it was a separate page we put FA Q's and Hulk because they were on Zendesk we said let's put it up there had tons of arguments right the creative directors going no no no we got to make all the pages I'm like no just test this let's a be test it and figure out what happens well the two weeks we tested this in conversion rate skyrocketed right it went out of the park because people could find the food it was good food it was a good offering we were just not telling people what we actually had so then we went back to the drawing board and figured out how do we take all that feedback from customers and put it into a site with better navigation so we broke it out we answered all of their questions and they were able to double acquisition by doing that by iterating through these versions of the website that actually solved the problems for users so to escape the build trap right we need to use the right processes and the tools at the right time specking out that product plan right of all the content on the website was not gonna get us anywhere because we would have put the wrong information there we didn't know that they couldn't find that menu by actually taking the time and understanding our users right and really focusing on experimentation we were able to do the best things for our users so we were able to really solve their problem and hit our goals now there's so many tools out there right there's so many tools there's so many new fads and everybody gets really excited about them so we're all like prototype all the things right I had a product owner at a company come in to me when I was coaching there he said I'm gonna go build 22 prototypes I was like why why are you gonna build 22 prototypes and he's like well I'm gonna show them to our users and they're gonna pick out each piece of the product they like and then I'll make that one product and I was like no no this is not what prototypes are for I like your ambition but let's calm down for a second right first what problem are you solving no idea go do user research right so we have to figure out how do we stop there another one design sprint right design Sprint's are great but a lot of times people use them to solve super complex really really really large problems right instead of trying to get them into a space that you can iterate around quickly does nine Sprint's are awesome for specific types of problems that you want to solve so the thing that's about tools right they're useless unless you use them correctly so being a product manager right is all about sensing like where am i what do I have to learn what am I trying to do here right and then responding to it so that you know what tools to actually use so to do that we use something called the product kata right and the product kata is about really stepping through experimentation to learn and with that we first understand the direction right where's the company vision from our strategy then we analyze the current state where are we right now so where are we compared to that vision then we break down what's the next goal to actually achieve it so we set our strategy framework and then we choose the right step of our process right our right tool to use to experiment around actually getting to that goal once we hit it we set the next goal and we keep doing that until we reach everything so the thing about the product kata them is it asked certain questions like we did at that and you'll get delivery company what's the obstacle standing in the way of reaching our goal what did we learn from that right what experiment can we drive to actually learn then what do we learn and then what's our next obstacle and we keep doing that until we learn so learning at the end of the day is what reduces uncertainty around what products we build so that's really what we have to concentrate on as companies right how do we improve the rapid rate of learning about what our customers want and what's the right direction to go and we have to actually notice that we don't know all the answers right like we don't know all the answers when we first start out so that's why it's absolutely critical to have a cadence of discovery and delivery right it's not all about delivery it's also about discovery and how do we blend these two things together so that they can inform what direction we want to go into and that right really gets down into how do we set up our organizations to succeed so product organizations right product organizations need to be set up in a certain way that really enables that strategy and really enables that process so that they can work together and you have to build a culture around that so when companies are focused more on velocity and adopting agile and they they say they're agile but they only really care about velocity and story points and that everybody has their little job right they're not fundamentally agile because all they're worried about is how do we produce things faster right how do we shove out more feature it's how do we do all this and agile right if you've ever read the agile manifesto and you go to the second page there is a second page if you didn't know that the first principle on it right says our highest priority is to satisfy the customer if through early and continuous delivery of valuable software that is the first principle on the agile manifesto so if you are in a company that claims that they're agile or that they want to be agile and you are not worried about the customer and you're not worried about satisfying them you're doing it wrong that is not agile right that is just scrum right that is just like going through the motions and not satisfying the customer so the principles of the agile manifesto on that page really tell us what they meant right this is really what we mean by those things so satisfying the customer is huge so we have to create an organization right surrounding that to escape the build trap we have to create a product led organization that has the policies and practices needed to navigate uncertainty right that's what we have to build so I talked about these companies being product lead right what does that mean what does it really mean to be product lead well there's let's talk about what not product load is this is pretty common right so some are sales led sales led organizations are when the sales team kind of runs the show right and they're selling ahead of the roadmap and they're signing agreements for whatever they can sell without you really figuring out the strategy so the product team becomes reactive right it's been like oh how to be satisfied this contract oh let's go do this really fast so sales led organizations are dangerous way too dangerous place to be in because you're not really being strategic you're being more reactive and you're not really figuring out if the things that are in that contract are gonna work for everybody another one is being visionary led right which is kind of what Apple did right it's all based on somebody's idea of the vision right and what happens that person if they go away how do you replace them right like how do you harness innovation throughout the company so that you can keep sustainably doing this instead of having it come from one person another one technology LED technology look at LED organizations are all about the cool tech right it's like this tech is really really cool so we're gonna build all these things and then we'll figure out how to sell it later technology led organizations don't work either because it's hard to monetize them or market it so we've got a lot of people working on building super cool tech but it's not really doing anything for our users so being product LED what does that actually mean being a product LED organization is about ruthlessly focusing on solving customers or users problems to drive business value right it's about optimizing those two pieces how do I maximize business value how do I maximize customer value and how do I figure out what products and services are the right things to do that strategically they're oriented around outcomes instead of outputs right it's not about how many features we can ship it's about what goals do we actually hit at the end of the day it's experimental by nature right and we're driven by continuous improvement so we experiment we figure out what we should be building we know that we're not really sure at the start of it right where we know that we might be building the wrong thing or that we might need to revisit what we're building we might have to kill some things because they're just not working in the market right but we're experimental we try things we try to figure out which way to go and then it's also a place where leadership enables empowered decision making by throughout the levels right and they do that through a strategy framework so leaders empower the teams to go out and figure out what's the right thing to build and they set them on the right path they put that direction and then they let them go so one key to being product lead and a thing that's missing in a lot of organizations is this role called the chief product officer how many people have a chief product officer yes I like that not not as many answers I want to see but I like that a couple of people do so the chief product officer role is pretty new and it's something that I'm pretty passionate about we've changed course products labs and we've been working with insight venture partners to develop a training ground for chief product officers so we go in and we play interim product teams and grow stage companies we consult on strategy and helping teams get up and going and we train chief product officer is to go in to grow ch companies eventually after they leave us from a two-year program so the chief product officer role though I found is absolutely key because you need somebody at that executive level who knows how to interface with the executives to set that strategy to build these organizations and then let that product org just go right just find the right things so this is a key moment it's a key position that we all need in product organizations to really become product lead and I think we're gonna be seeing it a lot more and I hope a bunch of you end up being achieved product officers one day at these organizations so if we look at escaping the build trap right how do we really figure out what we need we need a process right that really helps us figure out how do we experiment how do we get to the right answer what is the right thing to build for our users we need also an organization right that actually supports that we need an organization that really thrives with the leadership gives us a space to do it and a strategy that they set up to do that right and then thus with the strategy we can do the process to become experimental and figure out what we need but at the end of the day right organization strategy process it comes down to people and it comes down to the product managers we have at our company and it's important for us to really embrace what our role is as a product manager and fundamentally understand that it's about optimizing that value about really finding out what's gonna be valuable for our business and customers so I encourage you to really look at what you do and think about it from that perspective because the build trap right is a really comfortable place to stay in but it's only up to us to really figure out how do we get out of it so thank you very much if you're interested in this this talk I wrote a book took me two and a half years I'm never doing it again so please go buy it it's on Amazon now for pre-order it Kindle version will be out in a week in two weeks the book will be out on print version very excited I send it to the printer yesterday I teach if you want these slides Melissa at send your slides calm put in the subject productize they'll all come to your email inbox and I teach an online course at product Institute on product management and you take 15% off with productize so thank you so much for listening to this and I hope you have an excellent rest of the day [Applause]

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Keywords: product management, product manager, product thinking, innovation, product, productized, productized talks, technology, user experience, experimentation, ux design, strategy, business

Id: DmJXpI7OJuY

Length: 38min 18sec (2298 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 11 2018