Escaping North Korea, Woke College Students and Professors, and American Opportunity, w/ Yeonmi Park

hey everyone I'm Megan Kelly welcome to the Megan Kelly show today we have an incredible incredible interview for you this is one of those exchanges I finished recently and said this is a before and after moment for me meeting this woman hearing her story I've I've thought about it every single day since we did it and we did it a couple weeks ago uh and I think you're going to feel the same when you hear the story of yanmi Park she's here for the full show you may have heard her name possibly her story before but not not like this uh yomi Park became a household name for many in America thanks to her 2015 Memoir an extraordinary piece called in order to live a North Korean girl's journey to Freedom it was published when she was just 21 years old but her story of course starts much earlier she was born and raised in North Korea and escaped and that is the right word escaped to China when she was 13. her incredibly perilous danger Dangerous Journey did not end there though she was not fully free until 2011 just before she turned 18 when she finally made it to South Korea and eventually to America she's still so young I sat there listening to her story and as you hear it yourselves you're going to think what I thought this is unbelievable this is absolutely incredible and it got me wondering when the interview was over like is this incredible like could this stuff have actually happened we should we're journalists go ahead and do a fact check on it like we do for any of these in-depth pieces we do and we went back and started fact checking some of the things that yomi told us and they checked out as incredible as they were her descriptions of North Korea checked out other people who have escaped have told very similar stories around the same time um a couple details here or there that whatever but yes it checked out and I will tell you that there were a couple things she went on a reality show in South Korea where she talked about how she was I guess a little wealthier then she'll hear you will hear her portray in this interview whatever um and there was one sort of report on oh she said to her mother and father came across out of North Korea with her when in fact it was just her mom she says that was just a translation thing she didn't she didn't claim that but what's interesting to me is that people have been coming for her as they would right you you leave North Korea and you start speaking these kinds of facts about what it's like to live there and you make yourself a Target but you see yomi Park doesn't care about being a Target she's been one her entire life her entire life has been one of people taking advantage of her people hurting her people not caring whether she lives or dies uh people who have wanted to hurt her from the time she was a very young girl and did and now here in America a true survivor someone who did know victimhood firsthand her observations on our culture have been absolutely stunning and have opened up an entirely new area for her to discuss she has a new book out this week called while time remains a North Korean defectors search for freedom in America she joined me for an incredible incredible conversation enjoy for many parts of the country February weather is cold and unforgiving the days are short and sunlight can be hard to come by and those days relaxing by the pool seem all too far away but when you have a Michael Phelps swim spot by Master Spas you can enjoy the best of a pool with the therapy of a hot tub even in the middle of winter Michael Phelps swim Spas come in a variety of sizes to complement almost any yard even if it's a small one Michael Phelps swim Spas by Master Spas have a water current so you can swim do aquatic exercises and have fun with the kids this is going to reinvent family time the water buoyancy will relieve pressure on aching joints enjoy pure relaxation in the massage therapy seats of the swim spa and since it's heated you can use it year round in any climate Michael Phelps swim Spas are 100 made in the USA by Master Spas the world's largest swim spa manufacturer you are going to love your Michael Phelps Swim Spa by Master Spas go to masterspaws.com put in the promo code m K to save a thousand dollars on a Michael Phelps swim spa or five hundred dollars on a Master Spas hot tub that's masterspaws.com promo code MK [Music] join me great to have you thank you so much for having me oh the pleasure's all mine so correct me if I'm wrong are you're 29 years old now just about yeah I just turned 29. wow okay so it's been an extraordinary three decades on this Earth and I've listened to so many interviews that you've done and I've I continue to find your story absolutely riveting um let me just start with where you are now before we go back to where you were living in Chicago at the moment I actually moved back to New York uh last summer so I've been back to New York since my college okay and you have one son yeah I do how old is he he's about to turn five years old next month oh boy wow okay so how are you enjoying New York by the way it's it's birthday here from 2016 and uh moved to Chicago right before the pandemic and I came back to New York last August and to be honest I just couldn't recognize the city anymore uh every restaurant that there's Midtown in Manhattan there there's a cave town is that I like to go for lunch every corner that I turn around there are a lot of people selling drugs and what's so shocking is that I walk with my son to go to Korean restaurant and they serve drugs you know it's wrapping purple pink paper and my son thinks that's like a lollipop so you keep asking me to buy him the lollipop from these people and and of course I picked away like every new current every single time I take the subway I see really unbelievable things that you cannot discuss here and I feel like I'm risking my life every single time when I take a Subway so in some sense I don't feel safe in America anymore and that's what I was literally crossing the desert for for freedom and safety and I don't get that anymore living in New York City I completely understand we just moved from there um not even two years ago after having been to the city for almost 20 years and we have young children and it is a scary place these days it wasn't always I mean relatively recently it was a very safe place to raise a family and then two election cycles of a terrible Mayor de Blasio coupled with covid Mania and defunding the police only to refund the police and so on have changed the dynamic there dramatically for the worse yeah that's the thing like I only came to America really 2016 and since then I do not recognize the city anymore and so that's very shocking to me how fast things can really deteriorate and I mean University in New York City and I know what they were learning there so I'm not even surprised at this point well this is the point of your message how fast things can deteriorate and how quickly uh North Korea became what it is today and so if you know it's your whole message as I understand it since you've gotten here has been to try to wake up Americans to the dangers of not paying attention to a government that's growing too authoritarian a far left that's trying to word police and thought police at every level of society taking control of various cultural institutions it's not just a uh it's fine it'll work out no it's a five alarm fire that could result in the complete transformation of our country yeah I mean this is a thing where people do not recognize is that they somehow because Americans when they're born they were born in Freedom like people who were born with two arms we will never understand like what it feels like not hiding the arms and like that for them to not like not being able to imagine life without freedom is almost the impossible task it seems like and if my country from North Korea you just look at these two koreas North Korea and South Korea exact same people homogeneous people had thousands almost 5 000 years of same history ate the same food same genetics same culture under two different systems one became South Korea the land of K-pop and Samsung and Innovation and freedom and one country literally became the darkest place on Earth if the entire country became a concentrating Camp the people in North Korea in this 21st century they don't even know the existence of Internet and it's not because something North Koreans in their genetics they want to be oppressed it is because they they so much chose a different system and it can happen to America if we choose a different system that is other than empowering individual liberty and freedom and free market we can totally can become like North Korea and I think if they somehow I think America's exception to this law that we are immune to oppression somehow and obviously playing with the ideology that brought my country to North The Hermit Kingdom and they are playing the same ideology in America right now um you know you're it's funny to think about because I as I was reading up on your story I was thinking about my nephew my sister's oldest child who moved to he's in his young thirties now he moved to South Korea about 10 years ago to help teach English fell in love with the South Korean gal she's a lawyer that he married her they're living there I think she works for Nike and anyway they have this a lovely life they have a beautiful child they're living obviously a perfectly free absolutely wonderful existence there and it's not that far away from the existence you've detailed and it's hard to believe it's hard to believe what what a juxtaposition you know between the cultures that could be so closely related geographically yeah it's literally a few miles down that's uh that was same career back then there was no North Korea or South Korea it was just one career and now the people like North Korea can't even afford electricity nothing mentioned internet that the two different reality they became even two different planets I think whenever I have to talk about my nursing experience it's almost like describing Life on Mars or something the people that is how it felt problem and related anymore reading your story that's how it felt it was like I don't I don't understand so let's get into it so that people can hear the details that's what's extraordinary about you is you're young as you say you're 29 years old you're born in 1993. this isn't ancient history this isn't something that happened oh 70 years ago and people can't really relate it's it's happening right now your story remains entirely relevant in present day so it's a window into something we haven't been paying enough attention to uh and and also a warning as to where we could be going um so you're born in 1993 and let me just ask you about your earliest childhood memories like how was your you know you're talking to an American person the odds are they spent their childhood you know riding a bike going to school running around playing sports you know things like that how do you remember your childhood um I mean growing up in North Korea I just remember not seeing any colors because they there's no color we were just so poor nothing was even painted in color other than there's one place that we had electricity those were the uh where the king dictator's monuments were and that place is where children I remember had to get up at 5am and go to The Monuments I'm picking up little plants and dust out of the monument and that's how we showed our loyalty to the regime and the first thing I really remember from my mom was actually she was telling me don't even whisper because the birds and mice could hear me and when I came to America even my with my son I happened to express his feelings and his thoughts but the first thing my mom had to teach me was that the most dangerous thing that I had in my body was my tongue if I said the wrong wrong thing that was not gonna kill me but that was going to carry the three generations of my family that's how North Korea punished people and uh get rid of any kind of rebellion by punishing up to eight Generations families for one person's climb eight generations and so and it and that's true it was not an empty threat you actually could wind up getting family members killed three to eight Generations around you for misstepping in a way that was offensive enough and it could be a mild offense yeah it's a offense is like a watching Hollywood movie that was a bootlegged Hollywood movie that came from China by Smugglers or the most ridiculous uh the offenses are like every newspaper in North Korea the front page you have to have Kim's pictures and showing how they were so tirelessly for the people of North Korea and a man one day didn't see the front page and looked back and read the paper by mistake and that was his reason get punished to the concentration campaign along with all his family and in I remember in my room in my every household every room every class in North Korea have to have portraits of Kim dictators and if the fire get caught what do you do you don't run with your children or your mother you have to protect the portraits in your own body otherwise your entire three generation family was gonna get cured wow do you remember any is there any Joy is there any fun for the young ones um I mean we don't even have so that's this is the thing why I keep saying that knowledge is a different planet is that they don't teach us the concept A lot of times like we don't have the vocabulary actually they don't teach us the word stress for instance like how can you be stressed living a socialist Paradise it cannot be there's no word for PTSD or stress or uh I mean depression and at the same time they don't teach us What happiness is so if you ask North Korean child what is happiness they will not know what that is so it's not in our mind to think about what Joy is and when you are born in the country the first thing you know is even as a little baby you need to survive that's the everyday is a Survivor game nobody knows there's no guarantee that you're gonna make that day so I remember every single day when we live in North Korea if we made one day now going starting and dying we say well we made one more day and not sure what's more hurts for you I mean so is it you know I I don't think I'd be asking somebody who'd been a child in a World War II concentration camp if they ever if they have fond memories or were laughing a lot or had a lot of Joy but I my instincts would be to do that because my instincts tell me children are children and they're naturally joyful is that not true I mean do you what was your experience what was you were you able to tap into laughter and something that now you can see is Joy notwithstanding all of your surroundings so this is something that I mean to be honest um adhered by having when I actually had my own son in 2018 and I think that's also maybe the first reason why I chose to have a child when I was just 22 years old um after North Korea surviving that country what they do is when you're born in the oppression they kind of numb you they know all your senses and they know the ability to think critically you are just a empty chair as a robot whatever the government controls you you have this group thing in this totalitarian state and but I still if I really do try to remember what I was laughing about is you know we get electricity once or twice a year for a few hours when on the holidays of dictator's birthdays they have to make us to watch the propaganda films brainwashers then that was the biggest thing that could ever happen to me seeing that light bulbs light up but more like 99 time even as a child like you never get to have that you know Humanity with you that is completely being denied in the country even to the point where you're denied well you tell me you're either denied love but at a minimum it could be alternatively you're just denied the word and the concept of love yeah that's the thing that was crazy the only country do not have the concept of love like we don't know what romance is or the mother's love Kim Jong-un literally banned Mother's Days because he was afraid that if children love their mothers they are not gonna love the teacher as much so that's why even deny their love that child has for their own mother or the mother has for their own children or husband and wife have for each other I've never heard in my life my father passed away before he ever reached to Freedom he never told me he ever loved me I'm sure he did but in North Korea you do not even have that right to say or feel love for other people other than the dictator is there nurturing without that word without the concept I mean I can't imagine a mother holding a baby isn't loving isn't holding you isn't holding your hand isn't showing love but am I wrong it it's a so when I was escaping North Korea the lady who helped me to go to China was a trafficker but she sold her own daughters to Chinese uh to be great and you would think like what a horrible person she is how can she possibly selling her own daughter to be raped as a child in China as a sex slave but because that was the only her way to make her child not die from starvation and so of course we can judge North Koreans all day long how can that is a lot and in the 90s when I was growing up it was the worst family in our country that's when Soviet Union collapsed and they will stop helping National regime and socialism can never survive without subsidy from other countries they eventually run out of all the money that people have and people were dying millions of millions on top of each other and during that time I mean two families had to decide who to kill that they to feed on other children because if they don't kill on their child other children die and they forced nursing people to make this kind of impossible choices and of course no North Korean should ever buy from starvation because Kim Jong-un casted more than 40 minutes one missed our test he can feed the entire North Korean population entire year if he did less for me circus nobody ever had a dinosaur from starvation but he chose not to feed nursing people then because we are so weak that we cannot think about Freedom we cannot think about the meaning of life we don't have energy to fight back and start a revolution that's why the regime chose not to feed us and force us on into that kind of unimaginable situation and instead focused on their missile tests right yeah what I've heard you described this before that I mean of course you describe your own history as having been starving and that you've seen dead bodies in the streets due to starvation how did the food distribution system work so this is a funny thing right uh North Korea began as a communist country like Kimi song was admired of uh Mars and Lenin installing and he wanted to be in North Korea as this perfectly equal Society you know a global Society where nobody's poor nobody's richer we are all the same and once he with that promise and he said in order to be achieve that you need to give us all your properties there's we are going to abolish private property there's no private ownership on anything in Nursery you can own a house you can own a bike you don't even own yourself everything including your body is a state and from there the state gonna decide like how to contribute that but then as soon as he took all the rights from people from the lands and rights from people he decided to divide North Koreans into and by the way North Koreans are the homogeneous country in the same language there's no like even race difference into 51 different classes so after the promise of the equality and no no inequality we became 51 different classes and the regime decided to depending on that classes they're gonna decide who gets feed and who gets to start from dying from starvation so mostly only the few people in Pyongyang like top 10 of the North Korean population living in Pyongyang in capital that's where dictators lives and it's almost like The Hunger Games right they have 13 different different uh districts and there's capital and people in Pyongyang they have so much food and they have so much luxury but the 90 percent of population don't get any of that and by Design how do you how do you get your food I mean is it different it must be than here where you you go to the grocery store you have money in your pocket from a job you know how does how do you get the food so in North Korea right nobody can choose their own destiny when you are born the division tell you what to do what to wear what to think what to watch what to read and including your jobs they call something job uh replacement or allocation and doctor salary the medical doctor salary in North Korea is less than a dollar a year so you cannot buy a kilogram of rice so the only way that common nutrients can survive is by being corrupt and go on the nature to become almost like Hunter and gatherers and even that you get punished so the only way I could find food as a child in North Korea was uh you know in the fall I go catch the Grasshoppers and that's what I ate in the summer time I would eat dragonflies and plants tree boards and uh some children even in the months and if you eat that much you cannot go to bathroom and you're gonna die eventually and children are still so hungry they despite us to eat the months and that's how North Koreans are the same people in the South Koreans but on average we are five inch shorter than South Koreans because of malnutrition wow I I read that when you when you finally got out at age 13 you were around there you were between 50 and 60 pounds yeah and because of my child malnutrition I'm still only like 76 pounds because uh and it's the same thing the owner North Koreans that our system didn't develop fully our organs and brains never fully developed because that other childhood you need the nutrition to develop your physics and your system but we fail to do that so even after the Escape nobody can ever fully recover and all of us have that problem afterwards in gaining anyway because our systems are just not used to it mm-hmm so I I read that the average North Korean man is what under five feet tall centimeters got to be like four one four two feet you have to go drive to military North Korea for 13 years so every man in North Korea are obligated to serve in the military for 13 years if we are just above four four feet and for women it's incredible it's uh five years so and when you go to military they don't fish you so women stop having periods because you can't afford to have periods our body not gonna ovulate because of my nutrition and you as a woman you constantly get raped and not fat so North Korean regime all has its facts from the last and the international Society now what about friendship what about romantic love as a young person I realize you left before that was really realistic for you but does it happen do people marry for love does the regime choose your your spouse how is how is how are relationships developed so obaa friendship uh we don't have the word friends we only have the word comrades so comradship and friendship is a very different thing when you are being a comrade with each other you are serving the revolution you're a revolutionary you're not an individual so even when I was a child going to North Korean State School temporarily and every Saturday they do this thing called the self-criticism session and it reminds me of Americans now the corporations they are like re-education they are doing to people to show them their bigotry and you know biases yeah struggle session right Norse is a lot severe version but they begin with the very like tiny little kids that brainwashing begins early and the trick is that every every Saturday we have this red note and write down the verses that dictators talked about it's like in North Korea dictators are gods they literally copy the Bible give us 10 Amendments and have the book that we people need to live by from their own words they're all made up story and we have to say like dear leader I guess so merciful that he forgive my sin even though I was not being a good revolutionary this way and I'm internally grateful for his love and protection and afterwards that of that confession what you have to do is you have to pick your classmate to criticize this is not something you can skip so imagine if there are 60 kids in a classroom 60 kids during the entire week you need to look for the force in your classmate to criticize otherwise you're gonna get punished so even in children have to constantly looking over each other's shoulders and see who is committing the crime and who is not doing a good job so you know what happened is it like that yes three people everybody is spying on each other and that's why there's no trust between people or between children's friendship even so how does it work that you would find a mate how do you find a spouse in that environment so a lot of times it's a government assignment the dictator says okay this time this many militaries each year they graduate right they come out of the military after 13 years of service then he said okay this this uh 29 maybe a district gonna marry the maybe 17 districts of women who is getting out of military like that just random like he just matches the governments match them up or sometimes the family members too but the problem with the not being able to marry who you want in our squeeze that as I said about the class system right 51 different classes and the tricky thing about North Korea which means that they made this way to prevent people to mix around between classes is if you marry somebody who's lower status than you you that lower person don't marry up you go down with the woman so if a guy was a high position he married somebody lower his family entire two generation family gonna go to lower class so what's gonna happen the family gonna oppose a marriage with their life literally so the mixing between different classes doesn't really happen so you were talking about the punishment if you break any of these rules uh and again it could be something like you said I think maybe it was a neighbor who who watched an American movie or watched a western movie how how do they I mean they disappear people they go off to camps what would lead to a death sentence and are you forced to participate in that at all yeah so it there's no concept of minor in North Korea even though you're five years old literally I can't imagine my son had to go to see that uh even four years old three years old you have to go watch public execution and this is a very often event in North Korea that happens they have these executions like uh Stadium or the market or the School Stadium like where a lot of people go watch and you you get drafted to go watch it and teachers announce that which day what time there's a public execution and as a class we all have to marching together to go see the public execution and for the authority saying for anybody is the same and how do they commit the executions it's a I never seen that hanging uh I heard that people literally in the concentration camps uh they hang the person and they demand the if it was a mother then they demand the son and husband have to call them first person to have to throw the rocks to kill them the user family members to commit the murder that's how they do that to Really Care the love and trust between anybody and people have no place to go for right and the execution that I saw was advice shooting uh they before they kill somebody they literally break every bone in the person's body so they can't even walk and then before they take them out to the public they uh through a big rock in their mouth and break all their teeth the reason they put the Rock in their mouth is they don't even give this chance for the last time to repair to resist the Region's ideology nobody can ever have a saying towards the vision even in their death moment that's why these people come out the rocks in their mouths and just blood and their bones are just over smushed and they drag them into their bodies and when the timing Kim Zone executed his own Uncle he used the shooting down the airplane that kind of powerful weapon he used and made his body into you literally into little pieces and then made the dogs eat the flesh afterwards and little officials to see this execution and this is what's gonna happen if the people do not obey the dictator and do they do they make the children these daycare people do they make the children and the spouse participate in the execution every time or is that a reserved for the most egregious I mean I know you're saying there's nothing minor and there are no miners but is that reserved for the most egregious sin no every time uh one of my my executors or my sister friend her mother was accused somehow being a spy and then they made her to sit in the front seeing her own mom got cured and three months later the office and then she got all excited Countryside and officers say oh we made a mistake and she was not a spy but there's no apology there's not no like condemnation after killing of innocent life every single execution the family members have to be the witness and then they put the little children by height so if you're two years old you're gonna be the first raw five years or second row seven years like and the others standing in the last so since you grew up in North Korea the first thing you see is people getting executed as a child and as you get older and get taller You're Gonna Go sending it back road to watch it is there Mass depression you know now being able to identify what depression looks like I'm sure you can is there Mass depression there I think so I think it's whatever you fear living in North Korea is going to be Beyond depression it's gonna be a complete I don't know numbness it's a complete fear like I still work with North Koreans and try to rescue them and there are like Chinese Brokers that we use to rescue these people and send the information and get money out of North Korea and send money into North Korea and somebody tried to you know Lie To Us by being a North Korean and when I hear their voice I can tell who is calling me from North Korea and who's not because even their voice is oppressed to the point that anybody if you hear their voice that you're not even their soul is crushed by this Darkness my God it's just horrific just to think about how that's again not not ancient history this is recent and still ongoing yeah nothing's changed it's it's the same family it's the same leadership so so let's go let's go forward in time to where you see an opportunity to potentially leave how did that happen oh I was 13 years old and I we were like you are not able to find food and we luckily I was living on the Border Town of North Korea and as you can see from the satellite pictures that North Korea do not have electricity and from Bordertown I was looking across the river and that was China and they had a lights on the streets at night time and that's when my sister and I thought maybe if we go where the lights were we could find a bowl of rice and that's initially thought like why we were escaping really not thinking about Freedom not even knowing what freedom is or human rights is we were just looking for a bowl of rice so we would not die from starvation and first my sister escaped to China and I wanted to go with her but I couldn't go over there because one day I got very had the bad stomach ache so my mom took me to the North Korean Hospital and you know this is a free health care right the government provides everything free to the people but in the hospital they use one meter to inject every patient doctors operate on people without anesthesia or if there is the initiation that doesn't work and there's no medicine and people knows you don't die from cancer because before cancer kills them other things gonna kill them first and most of people die before they're 60 years old so they opened me up they cut my stomach off and my anesthesia don't work and I didn't have any so I was screaming and thinking and they turned out like they thought I had appendix like too removed but I just had a malnutrition so I couldn't go with my sister but she left me a little note to say go find this lady she's gonna help you to go go to China and buy me there you you must have been afraid if you think that they can read your thoughts and that you know that everyone's spying on you it must have been terrifying just to have those thoughts never mind have a note directing you where to go to get out yeah so that is that is also thing like in nursing you're so isolated we don't even know the word escaping and also when you're so desperate like you know if your apartment caught a fire you're not really gonna think what happens to me if I don't jump out of the window right now because I'm gonna die from this Burning so almost I think when I was escaping I wasn't thinking and there's no way you could think like if you do not go that hour you are literally dying from starvation and that's why only thing I just remember was crossing that Frozen River into China with my like limping stomach just out of the surgery like I should not get shot I cannot get shot because the guards they are with the machine guns it's a shoot to kill order they don't just like catch you they are gonna shoot you to death if they see you crossing the river so that's all I remember it was like I cannot get shot everyone as far as fast as I can how did you get past them so the lady who was helping me uh was turns out a human trafficker she was North Korean herself and she was also a lady who sold her own daughters to Chinese to be sold and she was telling my mother and myself too and she bribed the guard but the thing is in North Korean border this Yellow River there's every 10 meters their guards so you cannot possibly drive to all these cars right this doesn't cost so much money and a lot of them are not maybe as corrupt they're not gonna let us go so they brought this one guard the one one post but if other guys see us they can shoot us from 10 meters away and each direction will up and down they are under the ground they're above the bushes so that's why it was never like chance of making out of that river is now is impossible nobody can escape from North Korea under Kings Island right now because they put the facial recognition cameras they put the wire electrified the wire fences they bury the landmines literally entire nurse can became a concentrating Camp so nobody can stay by my time thankfully there is no electrified wire fences there were no land of mines I just if I were lucky to avoid the shots from the Cars I could come out foreign ERS today is donors trust the principled tax-friendly way to simplify your charitable giving cancel culture does not just affect Comedians and commentators anymore it also affects everyday hard-working Americans how well it can derail their charitable giving this is so outrageous listen to this story this is from Jeannie Genie did her charitable giving through one of the big National Donor advised fund providers that is until without a clear reason it refused to send her charitable dollars to a conservative non-profit Jeannie writes in I'm a conservative I believe America is great despite her imperfections and that capitalism brings great good to society rather than government earlier this year I requested another gift from my Donor advised fund and it was rejected Genie wanted a Donor advised fund that shares her conservative principles and she found it in donor's trust the oldest and largest Donor advised fund committed to limited government do you want a principal partner helping you support causes close to your heart if so consider opening a Donor advised fund with donors trust for more info on how donors trust can help visit www.donors trustdonors trust.org MK to receive a free copy of their donor prospectus that's donorstrust.org MK [Music] so you managed to make it so you cross this Frozen River in in the dark of night and what what happened next yeah it's it's like almost like a yes and it was 2007. uh March 31st it's causing that River with my mother and the one broker a young man who has happiness to cross and then as soon as we got there um the first thing I was seeing was my mother being raped just right for me and initially this walk around me but my mother offered herself she was saying she just done surgery she she can't she's gonna die if you do like so she offered herself did you even understand what was happening with that like did you get what what rape was and what your mother was doing for you I didn't have the vocabulary to know what rate was because North Korea knew she say everything is fantastic like in North Korean news there's not such a little thing it's like accent or bad it's all about how our Revolution is winning how our state is winning how we are creating the Socialist Paradise so we don't know what rape is or what crimes and I've never had a sex education at school I never even knew what kissing was so all I remember was I was saying possibly the worst thing that a person can say without even knowing the context of a way it looked just horrible and that was my introduction to sex so you could tell it was bad that you you you at least could see this as bad she doesn't want this this is a hurtful thing of course it is so and I remember was my mom was saying like don't want I cover your ears I close your eyes and just keep screaming at me like you turn around close your eyes and like how do you hear your son I was frozen I I couldn't understand what she was saying like what could this possibly be and eventually I turned her around and I covered my ears and he was saying oh next time still gonna go for her like that thing that uh broker still wants me and oh my God yeah just I think to me as I still like something happened yesterday and after that they took us to this apartment and there they in their light they checked the artists and checked out hide an hour even our elbows to see how many years we are like if we are like viable or not and then negotiating our price just simple our eyes like we just became an animal and less an animal for them and they were negotiating to selling us to another human human trafficker that's unbelievable I'm so sorry for what you've gone through and you had to watch your mom go through whose only goal in that moment seems to have been to have protected you and she did what there were there were limits to what she could spare you from these I I believe I've heard you say the number that you were sold for that your mom was sold for what what was the number and then and then how did they take you away they split you up after that yeah so in this place they stored us to another human trafficker and because this trafficker didn't rate me he could sell me more higher price because there are many sick sick perverts in China buying child virginity so they sold my mom for around 65 dollars 21st century they sword or human being for 65 dollars and my price was over 270 dollars because I was virgin and I was a lot of valuable than her and she I think he was very glad that he didn't name me because he could make more money out of me and and that as you remember I think now actually they were making sure that I was virgin and that chapter bought us and took us to be inner China and there I got separate from my mom they sold my mom first to another trafficker and I was kept there um and of course he kept me to rape me and I felt like I've somehow I feel like hell and I will search on other traffic afterwards and that's also when I couldn't resist anymore I got raped there by the third broker that's that's how you lost your virginity in in a rape to somebody who had purchased you yeah but too much stuff I couldn't take that shame I was there's no more meaning like I could not leave it lies anymore so I put a knife to my nails I'm gonna jump up this building I'm gonna kill myself like and he said if I be raped by him and become his mistress to 13 years old child he said he could buy my mom back because he was the one who sold my mom to a Chinese farmer supposedly husband of course say he was the owner of my mother and he said he could help me to buy my family and bring my sick father from North Korea to China and that's when I thought if I can't sacrifice for myself I can save my family so that's why I get I got raped I didn't kill myself there how long were you with this man um less than two years oh wow so it was a couple of years so you let's just spend a minute on the the sort of sick perverted Twisted men this collection not not all but this collection of men in China there's a reason for that there's a reason there's such a market for child brides and the sale of women what is it so there also it's I never knew I want to say this because back then I was fantasizing killing this guy every single day with the ax like I hate them so much but the thing is now as a adult looking back he was also a victim of the system the Chinese Communist Party somehow decided that less people is better for the regime so why don't we come up with one child policy we will make sure that about all the women who had a second child and each family keep the one child so what Chinese families did is they were aborting girls and they're keeping voice a lot of times and they were literally if they gave birth to a girl by secretly they would kill the child they flicked them up and they murder these little verse and they kept the boys because that one child was the only thing they could keep if they had second they would get punched and you cannot keep a second child so now there's more than 30 million Chinese men cannot find the wives but they're not just enough women to go around for them and here they demand North Korean sex slaves for their needs they just they just ended that policy in 16 in 2016. it's amazing to think that during our lifetime that policy was in place the late 70s 80s 90s it was in place I mean we we didn't do anything about it I don't know how much we could have done and there are real life consequences as a result and you're living proof of it yeah so that's something like how when the state decides what is why for the individuals they're always mess it up and and the worst part of being in China as a nurse Community Factor actually by the way right now when I'm talking to you there are 300 000 North Korean girls at China right now are slaves and of course we denounce slavery all day long in the West and when there's actual slavery happening at your Holocaust happening this is what now what I'm saying the U.S says what's happening to noticing people the only resemblance that we can find in the human history is not Germany it's a holocaust so Holocaust is repeating the slavery is repeating and people do nothing about it and trying to silence us and when North Korean women go to China actually being raped is not even the worst thing actually it's a fortunate thing the other places they get sold for is a organ harvesting they buy these girls by the swimming and put them in the basement and take the audience out and just discard their bodies foreign girl to an entire Village the entire Village Vapor until she dies or the families who cannot afford the one person they brothers and uncles and cousins collect the money and they buy longer and rotate them together so if you get started to one guy and you give it by one guy it is actually the best scenario it can ever happen to nursing women it's I mean as you're talking about this all I can think is how is this person sitting across from me brilliant with perspective on life the mother of a young child giving love presumably receiving it it's I mean that's this that's your story it's it's the story of resilience and perseverance and strength that you never knew you had how would you how right you just kept going I mean that's sort of how where we are in the story now you just kept going yeah I'd say I mean there's a one time um I was gonna kill myself I couldn't take it anymore there's no hope and the problem why there was no hope is that the saddest part of going through all of this is that you don't know there's the alternative life can exist you don't even know there is a free word that exists I've never seen the map of the world so all I knew was this darkness and oppression and despair and I thought like what is the point of keep living like this this is all we got in the world and and the moment when my father eventually was I brought him to China through the type of the trafficker and he said um no matter what happens in life is a gift and you have to fight for life and that's why he told me and he was fighting for life under his death with his cancer that he got from the prison camp and that's what that's when I realized no matter what you go through life is a gift I'm gonna apply for this thing so that hurt me to come all the way here where I had to always fight for my life wow it's amazing your dad had that Insight notwithstanding the life he had led you so you you you strike the deal with the trafficker and the next day you did get out of China you as I understand it was it from China to South Korea through the Christian Missionary group so yeah right before they don't understand this some other trafficker who bought me he was a criminal himself and he lost all his money by gambling and he could not even feed me anymore so I could not even buy uh food to my mother because he brought my mom back from the traffic and now I had my own mother and by then my father passed away already and then he could not provide food and at this point if he were really horrible guy I think he could have sorted me to another guy and got the money but he didn't he told me uh why don't you sell your mother and I was thinking how on Earth can I possibly send my own mother but the thing is if I don't serve my mother she doesn't die from starvation oh my soul I saw there when I was 14 years old to a farmer and that money of course the trafficker took every penny and he spent one night gambling with my mom's life and seven months later I found her back and I ran away with her to another Village from that that guy bought her and from there luckily I met a North Korean woman another defective woman who was like us fugitive and she said there's a way that we can find food in China it was oh thankfully it was not a brother it was not a actually man rapes me every day but it was a chat room I don't know if you know this there are another many perverted people pay money to women touch themselves and show their body in front of the camp like camera and they said Thursday there is a cam chat room if you go there if you show your body you're not gonna get raped but they're gonna give you food and they're gonna give you shelter so the police cannot find jeans and you back to North Korea so I thought I mean that was the best thing I could get as a North Korean in China yeah because we cannot get even job as a decision like washing dishes like nobody can give us any job without ID and in the chat room oh I met another lady and she said I know this mission is from South Korea and they told me that there's a way to go out of China and BC and she was too scared to go that journey by herself so she was asking us to join her and then we got connected to missionaries finally and they told us about the Bible and Jesus Christ and they said we can literally cross the desert to Mongolia and if God allows and if God guides us and we can become free so that was my path out of China through this me help the missionaries what does crossing the desert look like yeah it's the most uh surreal thing I think I've ever seen in my life is literally we have to cross China it's like the missionaries they don't have a lot of money so they had like budget of few cents like a five rent Chinese money two per person so they have to put us in a group and in our group you're like eight of us and we had one man and he had his own son who was like American age two or three like young little toddler but as I said in if you are born in North Korea three years old you're gonna know how to behave she knew that if he cries and give away we're gonna extend back North Korea so this baby will not even cry uh they took us to the Border Town of China and in the border of China there's Mongolia and in between this border there's a Gobi Desert and there are guards of course same with the machine guns standing there uh we chose this is by now this is 2009 um by the end of February in the site like Mongolia it gets to minus 40 degrees at night time so we chose the coldest time because the guards would not think somebody who's so crazy gonna cross the desert in this coldest time of the year and in the summer like most likely I get captured by the guards and we started walking from China to Mongolia we eventually crossed 16 wire fences and a lot of them were electrified so we had to dig the hole under it and luckily didn't die we didn't even have gloves or scarves somehow did not work on the floor like freezing cold Mongolia that seems impossible with minus 40 degree temperatures how how long was the journey it was just one day because we were in a Border Town and we went to as far as we could and a lot of them take days because they the problem when you stand in the literally middle of the Gobi desert they say it's like in the middle of the ocean you have no idea if you are going straight or going around the circle like if there's one tree like you can at least know we are now keep turning back around in circle and circle and a lot of them do that they lose the way they keep going circle around and eventually they go back to China side and get caught by the guards or keep circling around and circling around then the wild animals to the desert they're gonna eat them or just die from that just purely making malnutrition right but we somehow crossing crossing and then in the middle desert we could not use a flashlight to see the compass but the mission has told us that go find north and west uh Direction just go follow it if you cross the eight wire fences that's gonna be a Mongolia but because of six of them and still can't define the Mongolia we don't even know this is a China side or Mongolian side and locally by the after like two or something I don't remember time there's a really bright Northern Star was there and we couldn't use a compass anymore so I told everybody let's just follow that star and see what happens so we in the days are the most important thing is you should not stop moving when you're when you're freezing to death you stop like feeling things and you become very busy and sleepy and that's a sign you know you're dying so we had to constantly wake up each other and every second had to move not to die from the court by the time around 7 30 the next morning we the Mongolian guards were running with the guns and asking us for our hands up because they were gonna catch us and they were gonna send us to back to Chinese side because they wanted they did not deal with us oh no and what happened in this time we at that point like none of us have anything to lose anymore we know whenever those can detectors Escape it's like Jews during the holiday they were escaping if you get caught on standby it's like the worst thing right you better off you kill yourself right there so we were um ready to commit the suicide and the last minute they stopped the tragic thing is they they did that to the next team they were following us from the missionary team they've gone too far so one of my mom's friends she swore out of the poison and we later asked Mongolian guys why did you do this to us and they said because it was so fun to see the reactions and these are little kids they are like 18 year old little boys they thought just it was so fun for us begging and I cannot begging for life and so everybody's plays with North Korean people because they know that we don't have protection from any governments we are just stateless poor I don't know future tips right so they and instead of having any sort of a human compassion Instinct their Instinct was to abuse you more but but but they let you live I mean you made it yeah so two months of interrogation in Mongolia they are moving on different detention centers each time they make sure they verify that we are North Koreans and two months later uh we flew with a fake passport to South Korea the South African governments came up to fake passport and they uh almost smuggled up us after Mongolia around butter to Seoul into an airport and that's how I became free [Music] like many people I am eating healthier these days trying to and that's why I love good olive oil and by good I mean fresh olive oil packs the most flavor and the healthiest nutrients when it's fresh from the farm and that's the problem with Supermarket olive oils they're not fresh they can sit on the shelf for months growing stale and stale and still staler this is why I like my olive oil direct from small award-winning Farms thanks to a guy named TJ Robinson this really is a deal changer also known as the olive oil Hunter when I tasted TJ's Farm Fresh oils I fell in love with their vibrant grassy flavors they're delicious on salads veggies pasta fish meat you name it as an introduction to his fresh pressed olive oil Club TJ's willing to send you a full-size bottle worth 39 of one of the world's finest artisanal olive oils for just one dollar to 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they see North Koreans they're gonna rape and kill us and eat us their life and then South Korean government telling us oh Americans are not like their democracy they are like great people they are not like Monsters and then obviously they are telling us that you know dictators they are Victor Kims or dictators they are uh oppressing people and you're like thinking what's a dictator you know what's a democracy yeah what's oppression like it's not about learning a new language South Korea knows kind of the same language just we didn't have the vocabulary and somebody for the first time asking me to introduce myself and I did not know what introduction like introducing yourself man like what do you mean it's like okay just say my name is this I like this I like to beat this and I I was like I always keep saying we because in North Korea we don't have the word I we don't know what i is like whenever I say oh we like water we like red color because it's a revolutionary color we like this country there's never time you can say I North Korea and then the teacher was saying then why just don't you tell me your favorite color and I was thinking I don't know because in North Korea they told him my favorite color was red it was a revolutionary color and in South Korea they were asking me to think for myself for the first time in my life and that was exhausting to thinking for yourself and literally I was thinking for five minutes and I had to take a break because I was not used to thinking and I said they suddenly I had to think like what I'm gonna eat what I'm gonna wear you know where I'm gonna live where I'm gonna study and everything was just up to me now nobody gonna decide that for me and that was very very hard to adjust in the beginning what is your favorite color now it's spring green ah great yeah this is was what was the most amazing thing like when you got to South Korea what you know that you saw that you thought was incredible because it's all new as you point out North Korea isn't really even using electricity so do you remember like what's that what's this there's so many so many things to look at and discover yeah I mean looking at the toilet bowl at the airport for the first time and I never seen that kind of toilet like we had outdoor digging wood toilet and in North Korea even poop is collected by the regime we cannot afford the fertilizer the region demands that every person have to bring our own poop to the regime to the collective Farm goodness so even there are poop tips in North Carolina we cannot even waste our own faces and then I suddenly sing this ball with the clean water on it I was thinking like what do I wash my hands like what do I do with this why and I was squatting on that thing for because I did not know you had the supposedly sit on it yes and seeing the toilet paper in my life for the first time this soft thing it smells so good I I thought it was the only fancy thing I stole the toilet paper from the airport in my like you know sure and I mean seeing food like you know I've never seen a cookbook because in North Korea like you don't have you know 50 maybe half pounds of pork and garlic and different ingredients there's no such a thing called cooked recipe we just eat whatever grain whatever plants we can find whatever Jewel that we can make that day and certainly in north in South Korea what's your favorite food I'm like I don't know what's what's out there you know it's like I did not know they're like different types of food even what was it like seeing television for the first time or the movies or the internet it's oh I mean just even seeing the shower first time like if you don't have running water at home we don't you have to go to the river and stream to bring the water and in the morning like the high okay family father washes his face than my mom and my sister and I'm the last one to use that word to wash face then if that same order goes back to my father he washes his feet then my mother watches the feet my sister and me I understand what we're gonna wash our wax and clean the home and the last word we're gonna uh throw it in our like little Garden in front of us there's no such a thing called a trash can because there's nothing to throw away in North Korea like there's no such a thing called waste and in South Korea just she I mean if you hit the button the electricity comes like if you put the top the water colder or hot water comes the the my my mom's favorite thing when she always so happy makes her so happy is that when she hear the sound of refrigerator the refrigerator oh yeah I mean she heard that she was laughing and I was like why am I why are so relaxing to hear the sound of refrigerator like what a miracle that is everything we're seeing which is a pure miracle do you remember what what was the first like when you started eating and you you know food had always been an issue for you was there one thing you remember saying oh my God like I this has to be a major part of my new life and it was their favorite yeah so this is the thing if you are coming out of a concentrating camp like your stomach systems are not like normal so if you suddenly eat the very sweet oily like full nutrition food your stomach cannot digest even and throw it out so when I remember I was like no I can do whatever thing I want I'm just eating and I was nauseous I was throwing up and then I learned it's like you need to gradually introduce your system into the for solid food and a bit of oil a little bit of butter and includes a little bit of protein otherwise that our stomach is not used to eating fruit steak and eventually when my system fully adjusted and become a normal person mode uh I I tasted steak in America and literally North Korea uh cars cows have more rights Than People one of the executions my mom saw was a this young man in his early 20s were getting executed because he ate the collective Farms cow and he was dying from nutrition so the regime was killing him and cows are very precious it's owned by the regime they have to work in the farm and I was thinking now finally I have more rights than anyone in America even if I eat a cow I'm not gonna be executed so till this day I feel so grateful whenever I eat the steak how long were you in South Korea before you came to the United States uh I was in Southfield for five years um while my junior year of college I came to America to continue my studies and write my first book okay and that was that when you you came to New York to go to Columbia uh Columbia University so I came here uh uh before before that I was coming here to write the book first and my agent was in New York so while I was writing my book in New York City I was like I still want to continue my education and they told me there's such a great school called the Columbia University exists so it's like oh that's amazing I heard about this school and I was applied and by some miracle I got accepted after this point but I started school it was just full of Dreams so a couple questions on that um I don't know I have you've lived in New York before you live in New York now have you I assume have you had the experience yet of going by the Statue of Liberty and and taking that in yeah actually I've never gone inside but I've been right there with the boats that's the way to see it from the water I I feel even as a natural born American citizen there's nothing like it if you don't get chills as you go by Lady Liberty by boat there's something wrong because I find it's such a moving experience and I I don't know whether it was meaningful to you at all or whether it's just interesting yeah I think it what it stands for I think that's uh I mean the reason why I wrote this book is in in some sense for even my own son in some sense like I was very lucky when I was escaping from North Korea even though I did not know that country like America three nations existed I had at least some place to escape to and I'm eternally grateful for America the defending South Korea and kept the country free for me to go to and to be saved but I mean every day I think about what happens if America goes away where will my children escape to there's really no places left in this earth right now and I think yeah it's just uh this is such a special place like I cannot run away from this place you know this is all I've got and this is all we've got at this Humanity it's it's a unique idea it's worth fighting for and the fight changes as the country evolves and you're very much involved in the present day fight before we get to that one other uh small question just wonder what was your reaction the first time you saw Times Square oh that's so funny so there's a very always a launching Vision keep saying we're gonna make American pastors their length into sea of lights right by the bombing the mutinical weapon and the first place that I landed to after going to Mission schools in Texas I came back to write the book was they took me a bus from BC there's some Chinese bus and landed me to a Times Square and I was literally thinking I don't think America needs any of North Koreans have to make their sea of Lights this is literally the Sea of Lies it was brighter than the daytime I landed in the night and I've never seen anything like that it was like literally standing on a different planet I could not think of a place can be the polar opposite from North Korea than the New York City and especially the Times Square it's it's fun to think about because it's it's such a special place I mean it's overwhelming of course in many ways but I do think what I love about Times Square for everybody is if you can go there ideally in a time when it's not Peak peek busy and stand there and look around to me that's that's the place you feel Anything is Possible anything is possible here like this country came and from absolutely nothing all of this went up these enormous skyscrapers the beautiful lights the twinkling signs the enormous uh shows of financial success the Billboards the excitement the creativity of Broadway it's all right there the music it's and and fun you know Street artists on the street trying to lure you into giving them a couple bucks for fun acts and magic and whatever your heart desires it's there I love standing there and just taking it in as possibility possibility that's where I am right now I think it's funny enough I tell my mom to Las Vegas it became her favorite place in the whole world not because they do gamble or anything she just could not comprehend how can you build this city in the middle of deserts it is a miracle yeah it's like Mom is freedom when you're free you can do anything you can literally reach the moon right and like you can feel that these trees and waterfall and everything in the middle of gigantic deserts I think that's like same thing for me just seeing the New York City too it was a completely racist lens before and looking at the city today I mean I said all the besides a crime that is happening just what this city went through and survived and what it accomplished it's like the power of individual liberty and what we cannot achieve when we can fulfill our potential and when the when we can be in the last freelance and I think of course North Korea could have become a Manhattan if they were free but they they chose a different system um is there anything you're still doing now like old habits die hard you know like only one square of toilet paper or something that you don't you know is there anything that you are have you carried over with you it's a it's funny I guess even till this day I don't like to have a lot of stuff with me somehow uh it I don't know it's like somehow like with the food right like it's it feels like if I'm somehow committing or crime if I raise food and I mean speaking of Vegas you must have died when you saw those huge Buffet you know all you can eat it's everything's to excess that's my favorite the buffet is like my favorite I mean this is a thing um so my son is like five years old his dad is not tall at all he's like five to six very short I mean average like right but my son is like 99 tire child in the height and weight and everything oh and it got me from my side right because my grandfather was taller than my own father and my grandmother was from the my own mother like each generation Nordstroms became keep getting shorter so I never knew what my potential was right right and yet you're gonna see it so obsessed that like my soul will not get enough nutrition I think the obsession with nutrition is still stays with me and my son still says like you feed me too much because when he says like I'm full I'm not like okay chill about it you know you have to finish your plate okay everything you have there so I don't think they all have it's ever gonna go away may I ask you about um your marriage because I understand you you got married but then you got divorced you had you got married you had your child got divorced so before we get to the end of the marriage how did you fall in love right without any practice it's that was very hard um it's like after North Korea and I go to South Korea but this uh at the end the Intelligence Center when they're extracting all the spice out they once I'm confirmed they're not a spy they told me um everything your thoughts when you're in North Korea was a lie literally everything and because in North Korea they said that I was not even Asian they said that I was Kinder some race I would dictator race North Korean calendar begins when Kim your son was born now when the Jesus Christ was born and literally including my own race was a lie and I was thinking like so if everything that they told him was a lie that how do I know what you're telling me is not online yeah right how do I ever trust the game and of course have I ever trust men again it took time it took me trusting what that meant was reading George Orwell's Animal Farm that helped me to understand what happened to my country what happened to my my stuff you know why the country became that way and why is people saying what everything I taught was lie and how to trust men again in my door so it keeping that perspective that my father was a Man Too that I come from man part of me is man too and thankfully now I also have a son so with that perspective I think I was able to put my guards down and fall in love in New York City and with American bastards it's like in North Korea International marriage events when women in China like North Korean women get raped and if they get pregnant and send back North Korea the first thing they do is killing the child they put the salt water with the syringe and the guards come kick the woman's belly until baby dies or if babies still alive it come out they struggle the baby and kill the baby they do not believe in mixing blood even with the Chinese the region that happened then they do not accept that so imagine if I were in North Korea and had a child with a Caucasian man I mean my childhood nice is unless he was born in a free country so I feel like my child is so such a unique thing like I cannot believe we introduce her my mom keep laughs like I cannot believe we had started the American bastard [Music] and made another one all right so okay so let's talk about the what you've observed about our country because you came here I presume yes you want to write your book and you went to school here but you clearly fell in love with America and the idea behind it because you're now an American citizen but it was not all rainbows and unicorns uh once you got fully more you know more acquainted with America and I know you've spoken openly about in particular your academic experience and what you started to observe when it came to the messaging about America about who we are about our history about what's important so talk a little bit about that like what what was your first sort of exposure to wait what are they saying and why is this eerily reminiscent of where I came from yeah so it's I mean like where do I even begin the shop that I said and so I came to America and thinking I mean on the story of America is a miracle it's it's a it is literally the best country in human history it's not just the Contemporary world as the beginning of the humanity end this is the best country and I don't even know why I have to State this obvious fact to anybody and then the first thing a Colombia at the orientation they said who has the problem studying Western Civilization and uh my you know the instructor asking us okay okay who likes to read the Jane Austen and as you know like my best friend became athenosis of books it taught me so much about myself life and the world and I love Jane Austen because I mean somebody somehow talked about even romantic love in the 18th century and human emotions like the things that North Koreans were denied in the 21st century somebody was expressing that that many hundreds of years ago and she was saying okay that's how you get brainwashed and it's like excuse me about like what what do you mean and she said because she was living through the white colonial era and she was racist by reading the work of racists that I'm gonna become a racist and this is why I need to stay woke to notice the bigotry the systemic oppression that we have for the minority people and I was like thinking is this some joke right it's got to be a joke and there was a professor I know and they say every class they say why every problem that we have in the world exists because of white men why because I mean my son is white and half white but then he also has a blood of slave I guess right and they said because some of the white people were slave owners and in North Korea you get punished for your ancestor crimes like my mother's grandfather supposedly had a tiny length in front of his house so they classed him as a landowner that's why I was not in a top class I was punished for my great great grandfather's crying that I was not responsible for and in America the land of friend who moved the brave in the same comes in this amazing country they are punishing people for something they have not done is collective gift was happening here and then they were saying the only way we can fix all this Injustice is complete destruction complete dismantling of the system and repealing the Constitution and I was thinking they say they stay average stay angry I'm like if you cannot be grateful living in this country where can you be possibly grateful for the every miracle that we live through and as I as soon as I expressed these thoughts to my professors they say you're me you're brainwashed and then of course we they say if you make somebody feel unsafe emotion not physically not feeling them down if I can cause some you know like somebody in unsafe and classroom I can get kicked out of the University and that fear made me stay silent until the graduation like I was just too scared too and it was the most bizarre I could I could not distinct it's so amazing the the white supremacy and the colonialization and corrupt capitalism is the older evil of all it's the same message the North Korean teachers had to teach me wow because because they had to survive that's our regime demands them to teach the Young Minds the same message was being taught in the Ivy League school by these professors so North Korean students and American students are getting the exact same education oh that is shocking that is deeply disturbing yeah we are getting the exact same curriculum and what are these students saying are the students going along with it were there did you find other quiet dissenters like you so not when I was on campus and when I actually spoke about this um maybe last year on uh one of my interviews with uh Dr Peterson and people saw the interview and they emailed me from LinkedIn and emails and they were Columbia graduates and Colombia attendees right now and said they feel exactly the same way but they cannot express their thoughts because they are also fearful because they want to get a corporate job Colombia has a very expensive tuition if you go to Colombia afterwards if you cannot go to Corporation job you cannot pay for this instead right it's almost like slavery like they make sure it's very expensive and afterwards you have to get a job that can pay for your debt and if you have a history of denouncing this mainstream almost a sermon like Kimi song sermon that they cannot get a job so your livelihood your family's livelihood is depending on it of course the canal Lords create the three generation you're gonna get punished but you're at your livelihood and dignity and reputation on the line if you do not agree with the political correctness of faith were were the students you know we hear a lot of the students especially at places like Colombia talking about their own oppression because they fall into whatever racial group or whatever you know you could go down the list did you hear any of that from the student body when you were there yeah there's a one class that I was taking and before every class as you can see my English is not perfect I learned American English by watching friends American TV show when I was 21 years old it's amazing yeah we're learning a foreign language as an authority it's a hard task and when the time of friends there were no gender fluid people there was only he and she I barely learned these pronouns and then I come to America to practice in real life and then going to my first class they say okay so before even say who you are what you like where you're from what your Ambitions are they say tell us your pronouns and they were the words like there are more than at the time of the 58 pronouns now they're adding thousands oh my goodness and then in every class people say your pronoun and then like they Justin they uh they was a gender fluid I don't want to mess this up and they was biological male and I don't know I've never met this day so I coordinate him hey like Justin told me I'm sorry but they is not a thing they is taken it's too confusing right so at the end of class in cheers this child like maybe it's freshman or sophomore and says his feelings are hurt and by this point I'm from North Korea like okay like I'm so sorry that my English is not good I sometimes call she he like because like it's confusing you know in Korean so this person was crying because instead of referring to him as a they you use the you used he and this was obviously a biological male yeah my goodness and he feels not safe with me and like I I was I was speechless like there are children when the organs are extracted when their people are sold for 65 There's an actual Injustice that is happening that needs our attention that means our Collective help there is such a thing that is called morality there is associated thing called Duty as a free person but these kids are brainwashed I mean they're not even odor they're Outdoors but they're like childhood none of them have any capacity to handle any reality and professors send you this email before the class say these readings gonna can trigger uh like rape memory of Oppression all kinds of difficulties so if this class is untrivial based if it bothers you don't come to the class and you don't even need to tell me the reason why it bothers you because it can also trigger you to think about your own impressions and then like we have we are the one of the most expensive schools in the world and if you cannot handle the material that is copying the classroom why would you even go to college at this point it defeats the purpose of a higher education so that's amazing you're the opposite protect somehow our Maid of Oppression and feelings you're the opposite of everything they think you are right like they you if you had responded to this they person by saying please I literally was sold in dyslexia sex slavery for several years of my life I was forced to attend executions for the formative years of my childhood I really don't need a lecture from you in oppression or hurt feelings it would have been amazing but these folks who have no oppression want you to apologize for not understanding how hard their lives ostensibly are yeah it's a I mean there's a thing they say captain is so evil that's what's wrong with it our world the free market is so horrible and these kids are in there like 200 yoga pants and they're like juice detox do you know this like bottle of juice that costs ten dollars this green color thing they or against rich kids like and we're just dancing laptops and I was thinking do you know without free market like you not have any of the what you are having right now how would you have an internet without free market how would you like have food without flea market this is the only thing that we have that makes us who we are like without food they say this is the end of Civility you cannot have civilization without food and that lack of understanding of human history because they are brainwashed in American school education system and I mean if after Colombia I was not even blaming these children because I mean the teachers who taught them this right like how would you blame North Korea to believe that Americans are monsters and called like bloody black tires because somebody bravely watched them even before while they were in their mother's stomach [Music] why did yonmi Park not need the trigger warning why you actually were somebody who had been raped over and over and I'm sure they did bring that up in class and it was in the reading so why did you not need the trigger warning and actually object to the trigger warnings as as an idea and yet they're I'm sure were people in that class who have never been the victim of a sexual assault or a rape who said I'm out I'm not going to read it I can't participate in it right so what what is the difference between what the people in our country right now who are leaning into that victimhood mentality even if they're not one and you who actually have experienced things that have made you a victim who refuse to stay in that mindset okay say that's a thing nothing about me is special any North Korean gonna not be the trigger warning it's a it's not because I'm exceptionally resilient or special about me just say life is tough and I have seen real life and if you understand real life hearing about it talking about it is not even close the worst thing that can ever happen to you and also keeping that perspective you know it's a that what made me I wrote my first book saying that there are two things that I'm grateful for one was that I was born in North Korea and the second was that I escaped from North Korea it's like you know if you can if you never seen the darkness you can never see the light if you're just all your life was in the light you're never gonna know what Darkness looks like ever and in some sense like that like I came to America and writing first book and my agent was saying yummy you're traumatized you need to go to therapy and talk about mental health and like what's therapy it's like about talking how hard it was to survive and your feelings to somebody and I asked like is it free like is it does it cost money it's like oh she's gonna give you a special rate like 200 per hour I was thinking like no thank you I'm good and I have nothing to against the people going therapy if you can get help that's great for you but the thing is what is the point of view surviving all of that and now I'm gonna spend the rest of my life to presenting it and complaining about it it's extraordinary it's like there's no point and I think that is the perspective is lost in America and that perspective is what the professors and teachers have to teach these kids using the history as a perspective and show them and why understanding history that we are not going to repeat it but they are not teaching that they are literally brainwashing them to think that somehow though climate change is do something gonna happen tomorrow you're gonna all die and then if you ask a North Korean like what's the climate change I mean they cannot afford to fight for climate change they don't understand there are billions of people all billions of people in the world are still oppressed being a free person is being the minority they don't understand people have no luxury to talk about your feelings and oppression and you know the social justice they are talking about it's a luxury they can afford and other people cannot for them they don't have that perspective it's so clueless that's a good that's exactly right I mean here we're worried about banning the world the word field because it might upset somebody who descended from slaves and we can't say field work anymore I mean it's just we've lost the thread um in my in our last bit together I want a couple cup I want to cover a couple things um there's a reason why we haven't seen the glossy CBS Morning profile of you or the Today Show giving you a double segment to highlight your story of perseverance uh or 60 Minutes I mean I could go down the list as you point out there there's only a handful of people who have escaped North Korea and your story as a minority woman and all you've been through would normally be very appealing to those groups I just mentioned those Outlets what do you believe the reason is that you have not been more highlighted on those news outlets so this is a long story I came to America and I met somebody in a conference and then he asked me one day oh so what do you think about like Second Amendment and I was thinking that's amazing thing like if you can self-defense imagine if North Korean people had guns in their hands right the dictator can never take them if your family mother gets scared if your mother get raped and your child get executed they're gonna die and even then I shoot these officials and fight back like him if Hong kongers had guns and the Chinese could never have this because never have taken them like that it's a very important thing for the humans to defend themselves for the Corp government and you were saying I agree with you but can you never talk about that and then we do Tango Random House there are many as you know there's many imprints right there's a great imprints within them and some a very unbelievable imprints and they gave me a media training and the training is not about me how I can talk about my story or how can I make sure that people know that what Chinese Communist Party does that 30 millions of people are oppressed and how we can end the slavery slavery never ended it's continuing and it's happening right now it's worse than like ever before more people in sleep than in human history before not about that it was about what not to talk to talk about so I had to list the page the page that I can never express my thoughts on and back then I was still like thinking okay maybe these people know better than me writing my second book my agent was asking me yummy let's write the next book let's talk about how hard it is to be a woman in the modern world and I was like what do you mean to have a great life and they said okay if you don't like the topic let's talk about let's write this book about how horrible America treats a black man in their prison system and how a lot of black men are imprisoned and their conditions are like nursing concentration camps you can be the mirror to reflect American society that how horrible America is to the minority groups and I was like it's simply not true I would take compared being in American prison North Korea free Society I mean North Korean Society I can choose American prison anytime any day right there's no comparison between these two systems and and then when I was pretending not pretending really I was closeted classical liberal they I was invited to events it's in my book by Jeff Bezos to something called a campfire he brings Tom Cruise all these celebrities and writers and Come Share their stories and in this story I shared my story everybody was in tears and they say what can we do and I told them these billionaires that movers and shakers of this world can you talk to China when you have business relation with China can you talk them so they can they do not enslave these women and they said I can't and first of all I really support what you do but do not ever talk about that I know you or we know each other that I heard you so whenever I go and there was a time the Hollywood somebody was trying to make a movie about my story and I got a movie script and he said when I arrived in China was the Promised Land they protect me they gave me freedom and they gave me what and I call this producer I was like like this is not even remotely close to a truth like how can you do that and he said this is the only way I can make a movie in Hollywood right now and this is America we are not colonized by China and I said I don't need a movie to be made about my story and I canceled that movie to you and because I talk about China they come after me and they do not want to talk about my story because I represent whatever they want to fight for that is Injustice the oppression of women and minority and slavery but even though I have all of that but still because I condemned China and they want to make money from this corrupt regime they do not want to do anything to do with my activism oh my God this is this is horrifying but we've heard we've heard similar stories not the same as yours before that they you know this is why Lebron James won't criticize China this is why um you've had Ennis Cantor basically kicked out of the NBA um this is why John Cena came out and apologized for the comments he made like we've seen time and time again how these people of note celebrities or athletes won't criticize China because they're afraid of losing the Chinese money it's outrageous yeah even politicians even even yeah it's that's the thing like they have no problem hanging up the signs like black lives matter they have no problem condemning the slavery that happened by the white people according to them they do not hundreds of years ago that's happening by CCP the hypocrisy right now yeah that's exactly right it must be infuriating to you uh and and it's obviously one of the things playing against you you're not saying the right things your pro-second Amendment you're not woke you're calling out fake victimhood and you have the standing to do it because of that life struggles you've had and you're openly critical of China and this is the reason that's the reason why we probably won't see a movie on the big screen of your life although I have some ideas so we'll talk later um but why you're not being properly platformed with the incredible story you have may I ask you is there any fear because given how vindictive the North Korean regime is and what they do to people down the generations and kill the entire family I mean are you worried I know that they've said they're targeting you I mean are you worried that they actually will you have a son you have some family back in North Korea still so can you update us on that and on your thoughts about it yeah so uh when Kim Jong-un even goes killing his half brother in Malaysia this guy does not care about International reputation or anything right he really does whatever he wants he I mean Biden calls North Korea and he does not pick up the bunker for like two months even like literally that's how weak America is now and North Korea how they are that strong with the help of China oh I was informed by the South Korea intelligence years ago that I was on his killing list and I cannot go to many countries like for instance in Malaysia in many countries where the North Korean operatives operate especially China and in America I have friends for Iranian activists machine the content shows up in her door in Brooklyn a few months ago and America just would not protect these activists that get threats from dictators so I don't get any protection from the U.S governments and South Korean intelligence is the only country that would keep informing me until fears ago that I became American citizen and now I'm not their responsibility anymore so now I don't get any more updates from this intelligence and I actually get canceled I was invited to speak at FBI Dallas last year and then literally a day or two days before the head of diversity occurs me from FBI and says because my political opinions that my values do not align with theirs they cannot invite me to talk about how they can help nursing people and we agree I'm not going to talk about Columbia experience I'm not going to talk about anything about American life on a purely talk them help them so they can help these North Korean people and they don't want to do that they were just answering me and of course I got cancer the Samsung they have been to China and many corporations similar okay it's like countless but American intelligence they actively try not to help me and silence me at this point and so not only that like the reason I wrote my second book is one day I was walking down the street of Chicago during the BLM protest info my son I was attacked by uh black women they store my wallet and they punched me it was a Byron attack and I was trying to call the cops and it was middle of the Mission Avenue in Chicago to 2PM people were started calling me racist because I was trying to call on these criminals and they were saying the color of the skin does not mean they are dips even though they were seeing these women taking my wallet and punching me down so I don't know like am I gonna be attacked by the work people or the the crowd that gone so mad in America that they can never see that everybody can become a criminal and every can be somebody can be your innocent my audience knows I we pulled my husband and I pulled our children from these woke New York City Schools private schools um a year plus ago that City's gone it's too far left and you know Chicago's on the same track it's already gone so you really got to get out of there there are more reasonable places to live where I think you'd be more protected and more loved and supported and you'd feel all the feelings that you thought you would when you got to America that's that's my feeling on it right now how are you going to support yourself you're writing obviously we are all buying your book we're going to support you that way um but how what's your future plan I mean I I want you to run for office I want you to do something where your voice is elevated and even more powerful oh no I don't want to be I it's a thing like when you go through something like this um every North Korean the same story in their dreams they are never in free country they are always back in North Korea in the prison so and as you saw like how on Earth what love would that explain among I became one of 210 North Hindi factors made it to America for the last 80 years and learned English and got have this chance to talk to you like I I don't think it's me like who I did it I don't think somebody really wanted me to save North Koreans and I have that obligation with me and in some sense I can't awake the public if slavery was wrong back then it is wrong right now and it shouldn't be some important partisan issue what I'm fighting for is not a politicism issue and they are trying to say I'm a right-wing I'm like oh so what I'm arriving that words lost meaning long time ago it doesn't mean anything and anybody who doesn't agree with the mention they say I'm a racist they call me a racist and they say I'm a white passing person therefore I can never understand what oppression is that's how they shut me down by denying who I am and also I have obligation protecting the sanity of Liberty in this country for my own son because unlike me he has no place to escape for imagine the world without America that place is unimaginable like word I don't want to imagine it so I don't have plans for office I'm not even like oh I never chose to want to do this I never want to have any ambition I just wanna stop the madness that is happening China North Korea in America I guess around the globe right now you are an extraordinary human being what an honor to get to know you I I hope you'll come back I want to talk about your thoughts on politics and Daily News and not just your backstory because you have such a smart and unique perspective and what a what an example of strength you are for our young girls for our young boys for all of us join me thank you for being here all the best to you and please let me know if I can do anything to help you thank you so much what a journey oh my goodness let me know what you thought of the interview you can email me at Megan m-e-g-y-n Megan kelly.com you can also post on Apple reviews I do still read them every day happy Friday we're off on Monday because of President's Day but back on Tuesday with Glenn Beck and more have a great weekend [Music]

Channel: Megyn Kelly

Views: 160,152

Keywords: Megyn Kelly, Megyn, Megyn Kelly Show, The Megyn Kelly Show, megyn kelly, megyn kelly show, megyn kelly on, megyn kelly vs, megyn kelly reacts, megyn kelly interviews, megyn kelly full show, megyn kelly full podcast, megyn kelly full episode, the megyn kelly show, megyn kelly news, full megyn kelly

Id: 1h17v2aX0qk

Length: 114min 57sec (6897 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 17 2023