Erica Stefanko: I Wasn't Sad Ashley Biggs Was Dead

we are ready to proceed with your next witness thank you honor uh the defense calls Erica Steno and then Mrs Steno if you could just turn around and raise your right hand I'll swear you in do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you you may be seated good afternoon hi please State your full name for the record and spell your last name please Erica stefeno s f a n KO o how are you today okay you nervous yeah Erica where were you born uh Georgia where in Georgia Fort oglethorp okay how long did you live there about three years okay um who are your parents uh Joel hendrik and uh Jack Lion Okay um when did you move from Georgia I mean I was about three and where did you guys move to uh courland Ohio okay um how long did you live there another three years okay then where did you go Stow Ohio okay how long were you there six years okay so did you guys move around a bit Yeah okay where did you go after St Key West okay how long were you there 3 years okay is are you in high school yet at this point uh yes okay where did you go to high school um I started High School uh Key West High okay and where did you finish High School East travel Hill High in North Carolina yes okay um did you go to or did you go to college After High School eventually yes okay what' you do between high school and when you went to college tried to figure out what I was about to do with my life okay did you have jobs um yeah off and on okay like what kind of work um I did some administrative I waited tables a lot okay um when you entered College ultimately where did you end up uh University of akan okay and what did you study there psychology did you get a degree yes and um what did you do after you graduated from acano um at that point I started working for Chad's company okay so is it fair then to say that you you met Chad Cobb when you were in college yes okay what do you remember what what year you were um I was close to being done I would say I was what approximately a junior okay we'll get back to Chad um what did your parents do when you were growing up uh for work yeah um my dad worked for goody year um and my mom was in nutritionist and eventually became an RN okay um are did they stay together did they split up or they is your is your dad alive now yeah my dad's still alive um my uh my parents divorced when I was like 11 okay um and did you live with your mom at that point yes okay after um you met Chad um and you graduated from college you said you said that you worked for cob cable company correct yes um what did you do for that company um I wore a lot of hats so anything from like HR to marketing to um anything but field work okay the the the office stuff the administrative stuff yes paperwork licensing accounting things like that yes okay um did you uh go back to school at some point yes I did and where did you go uh Malone University and what were you studying at Malone uh business okay and did you get a degree or degrees as a result of that study uh yeah I got my MBA okay um what caused you to go that route um I was working in HR at the time and the company that I was working for had like a will pay your tuition type thing um and it seemed like for advancement and managerial positions that I would need to have a master's um so I went ahead and took advantage of that okay um before you met Chad um were you ever married yes um how many times once once and who were you married to uh his name is Gus Mueller okay um did you have any kids with Mr Mueller no okay about what year was that that you were married to him 2000 okay and how long were you married about three years okay um and did you guys get divorced yeah um and you were never married again until Chad and then Mike correct correct okay um did you have any children um of your own when you met Chad cop yes how many one okay and um who who's that Alexander Stango okay and is that the young man that we heard that that Mike has now adopted yes okay and he was your son that you had with whom Michael book Wald okay and you were never married to Michael correct okay um but you guys had a kid and what year was that uh Alexander was born in 2005 okay um it's to be assumed that that you split up with that man correct yeah and is it fair fair to say that you had custody of Alexander yes um is was and I guess is Alexander's father in the picture no okay where is he if you know I don't know okay was that ever an issue was there a battle there or um not really um our split was not amicable um and he just kind of drifted off and we just really didn't see him okay um after you met Chad you had how many kids with Chad two two kids and those that that those initials are uh FC and KC okay and we've heard that Chad had a child with Ashley bigs named Grace correct yes you knew Grace very well right yes okay um how did motherhood suit you uh Joy of my life okay um you you liked being a mother yeah Okay so we've heard that you've lived in a lot of places correct yes where do you live right now uh right now I live in akan at the sum County Jail okay um how long have you been living in a jail as we sit here today since November of 2019 Okay so is it fair to say you've been in jail now over four years yes okay how's that uh rough tell tell us about a day the typical day for you overruled go ahead you can answer um it really kind of depends on how they're staffed and how the Pod has behaved in terms of how the day goes um we might stay locked up in cells all day um we might come out at 8 there's not really a lot to do or places to go um try to play cards and keep your nose clean and stay out of trouble okay um can you tell us about what um a typical visitation with a family member would be like um so they don't have in-person visits they only have video visits and the technology is kind of wonky so um it can be really stressful to try to have one um they're like 20 minutes um and I think you're allowed to have one maybe two a week so you're you're able to have one to two 20 minute video visits per week is that correct I believe so okay um who are some of the people that you have those visits with um I really haven't had any in a quite in quite a while um just because it is so stressful and emotional just even trying to get up there um you know to to the video visit and hopefully they call you and um you're not locked up and they let you out and it's it's a lot um so uh prior to that my family um my kids my husband my mom um my best friend have visited okay um we heard from your husband Mike this morning correct yes are you surprised he's still with you no why not um because he's the best man I know would you agree that it's it would be unusual for someone in his situation to stick with you yes okay how do you feel about him um I don't deserve him he's uh he's my soulmate and uh he's a wonderful man he is's a wonderful father okay would it be fair to say it's been a tulous relationship how it started and what happened after that yes okay and we heard and it's fair game this started out of wedlock right yes were you married to Chad Cobb when you started getting with Michael stano yes okay how do you feel about that um I know it was very hurtful to Chad um and I would take that back if I could but I wouldn't change the outcome okay when you when you start getting with mikic you guys both worked at Chad or I always do that cob cable company correct yes okay when Chad gets arrested what happens to that company uh ultimately um it wasn't viable anymore okay so is it fair to say that you and now Mike are unemployed correct um we heard that Mike got a job did you get a job ultimately yes okay where uh man can stopping okay let's go back to Chad when did you two meet uh the last day of 2006 okay a New Year's Eve party or something uh no invited me to one but no he just happened to be on new EVE okay and that was in 2006 yes and tell us kind of where it went from there how long did you date before you had a child um couple years before we had Faith okay I mean FC sorry okay um did he have his business up and running when you met him so he was working um like as an independent contractor but he didn't have like equipment truck employees none of that okay and you said that FC was born in 2008 correct uh 2009 or excuse me 2009 um when you met Chad did he have any prior children from a prior relationship um he had Grace and maybe JW okay so we heard about a child that he might have correct yeah did you ever meet that child no okay um but was Grace in his life yes how so um he was Raising her by himself okay what did how did you feel about that um it was one of the things that attracted me to him okay um he seemed stable and responsible and very devoted to her um is it is it possible that you felt that way because you were raising your son by yourself I think I was looking for someone with a similar mindset yes okay um is would it be fair to say that maybe he wouldn't be scared off by the fact that you had a son right had you run into that previously um not necessarily more just people who really weren't up to the task you know of of being a parent sure they might not know what it entails right okay did did Chad have sole custody of Grace when you met him um when I met him he was trying to get custody I think he had that Ashley had sold custody at that point um after we'd been together for about three months was when she gave custody up to him when when you met Chad and he you said he was trying to go get custody did he have a lawyer I believe so okay um if you know was he going to court I think um he had filed but there really weren't any Court hearings to my knowledge okay did you find him to be a good dad to Grace yes okay as far as you know he loved her yes okay um so in 2009 you have FC correct correct um and when do you have your next child with Chad uh 2012 okay [Music] um so prior to prior to your youngest child with Chad being born is it fair to say that in your household would have been Grace Alexander and LC um like in 200 Grace Alexander and FC FC excuse me FC yes and LC was 2012 uh LS was okay so Casey was my last child my youngest child which CH he was born in 2012 okay all right so um you guys are all living together there's three kids do you get married at some point yes okay and we heard testimony you just tell me if this is correct that that you guys got married on the front porch and no family or friends were there correct correct okay how did how would you describe Chad as like running the family um he was in charge um kind of like a general with his troops I guess okay did you have a problem with that at the time I mean not necessarily except his methods were a problem for me okay what were the methods um he's just very he was very focused on discipline and he was violent okay I don't want to get too much into it but did did he was he abusive to the children yes okay was he abusive to you yes we heard a story about a a horrible story about a dog getting shot were you there for that um I was there in the very aftermath of it I was like in the house when it was going on okay how did that incident make you feel um horrible um our child was outside with the dog he could have hit him um the what why would you do that to an animal okay and he was he was not good with animals okay and is it your understanding that that dog got taken to where Cindy cob Works um I don't think he actually took doer to the vet I think he just took him straight to to Cindy okay and then did Dozer Live with Mike later until he died yes do you remember the first time you met Cindy Cobb uh yes I do okay what were your impressions of of Cindy cop um she was intimidating not very friendly did you feel good enough for Chad um I always felt like I needed to prove myself to his family and to him okay how about Jay how did he treat you um Jay's most of the time a pretty laid-back guy okay did you ever have arguments or disagreements with Cindy cob um no okay fair enough um when you met Grace the first first time Grace Cobb the first time how old would she have been a a year and a half okay um what was your relationship like with her um so all of a sudden it was like I had twins um uh she and Alexander are about the same age and um she's like a super cheerful sunshiny little kid she's just always like happy for people um so we bonded really fast okay [Music] um you you lived with her up until H until 2012 correct correct so how old would she have been in 2012 seven seven between when you met her and she's a year and a half and you know after you moved in did she call you mom yes okay did you consider her your daughter yes did you consider yourself as her mom yes Chad had three children correct three possibly four but he had three children correct correct if you had to name one as his favorite who would it be Grace okay um why do you say that um he singled her out for special activities um he was the least harsh with her UND discipline could it be because that was his first child acknowledged child yeah could it be that he it was just those two for quite a while right okay what was what was Grace's relationship with her great-grandmother um they were super close okay what about her Grace's relationship with Jay and Cindy um Sandy didn't really like kids so they didn't spend a a whole lot of time with her but I think they were really proud to have a grandchild okay we've heard testimony that you were abusive towards Grace you remember sitting here and listening to that yes um there's a story out there about dog poop can you explain to the jury what is happening there um so it wasn't dog poop it was Meatloaf um she was probably four I'm sorry I didn't hear you can you speak in the microphone it wasn't dog it was Meatloaf okay meatloaf um and uh she was just having a rough day it was probably she was probably four and it was dinner time and she was kind of throwing a tantrum I'm like I'm not eating this this is dog poop and I said yes it is dog poop and you're still going to eat it okay well what does that have to do with blueberry yogurt nothing okay um do you know how she believes that it was in blueberry yogurt the only thing I can think of is that she's sort of mixing that incident up with when we um she was on like an antibiotic of some kind and it was in a pill and she couldn't take it so we split it open and put it in yogurt and she absolutely was like traumatized by it turned it out that it um excuse me it turned out that it had um tasted really disgusting okay like she flipped out okay did you feed Grace cob dog feces no okay how did it how does it make you feel that she to this day believes that she did it breaks my heart okay did you ever meet Ashley bigs yes when did you meet her um early in uh she and Chad's not relationship but um when she was still around after uh Chad and I got together she would come get Grace occasionally so it was kind of like pickup drop off so prior to her not being in the picture for a couple years maybe more there would be some visitation handoffs yes and you'd see her then yes um how did how did it make you feel when um she left for that long period of time um um I don't think I really felt any way about it okay she was really inconsistent to begin with so what wasn't like Grace really noticed okay um what effect did you notice that it had on Chad when she stopped showing up um Chad kind of forced her to stop showing up okay how so um he got angry with her for something that she had said and um started ignoring her calls when she would ask to get Grace okay um do you remember the day that Chad went to go pick up Grace from the Catholic school and she wasn't there yes um so you remember that CPO action yes what did you think about that method for getting Grace um I thought it was pretty unfair to Grace um she just kind of got yanked out of school and you know here's this stranger that she doesn't recognize and all of a sudden she's supposed to go with them U I think that was pretty traumatic is it your understanding that the that CPO that she filed against Chad alleged some sort of abuse correct yes did it seem even possible that he could have abused her seen as she wasn't around um no okay okay what was what was Chad's reaction to that whole situation um he was shocked um I would say he was devastated if you know what effect did it have on Cindy and great grandma and Jay I mean about the same okay up to that point they were spending a lot of time with Grace right sure okay at this time the cob cable company and your family are that situation aside are doing well right yes um do you come from from money I mean no like middle class okay did did did Chad come from money money no okay and you guys were making money right yes Lincoln Navigator right yes you got the house and and four-wheelers and vacations and stuff like that right yes um would it be fair to say that maybe you f felt a sense of entitlement you could say that would it be fair to say that you and Chad felt a sense of entitlement towards Grace because you were raising her that's fair now there was a this custody battle got very contentious is that fair to say yes okay um were were there like did did Chad hire a lawyer yes um did he meet with lawyer or lawyers yes okay did um were there Court hearings yes were there um a lot of filings back and forth yes okay um did you meet with the lawyer yes okay um did you go to all the court hearings um they wouldn't usually let me in the courtroom um I know in one instance I just had to wait out in the car okay but I would you know be there to support okay cuz this was this was Chad and Ashley kid right right I know you considered yourself her mother but biologically that's who the that's who the battle is between at that point right yes okay um was that a stressful time yes um do you know anything about a GPS tracker yes what do you know about that um Chad had Cindy purchase it for him so he could put it on Ashley's car okay so Chad had you're saying Chad cob had Cindy cob purchase it yes and to put it on Ashley's car correct why wouldn't Chad purchase it uh he didn't want to it to come back on him how could it come back on him if she found it if Ashley found it correct do you think that then they could look to see who purchased it that was his thought yes okay was Chad careful with things like that usually okay what what role did you have in that GPS tracker um none other than I knew about it you knew about it um did you tell them don't do that no okay um was that tracker ultimately discovered yes okay did that then come out into the custody battle in court I don't think it had okay um why would why why was the GPS tracker purchased so that uh Chad could know where Ashley was working okay and why is that important um because he wants to get her in trouble so that she loses Grace okay we heard testimony about the police being called back and forth do you remember that yes do you remember that happening yes okay and what was that about um Beth judge had um is that your attorney that was the attorney attorney excuse me go ahead um had indicated that um that was a good good idea for well checks um especially in the beginning uh for one thing to make sure that Grace was okay um but also that would be legally that it was a strategy I guess okay and would that be in the hopes that that there'd be some problem there that the cops would see right um drugs out or something like that right okay did that ever happen nothing ever came of those okay on either side on either side okay but it was a it was a custody strategy is that what you're saying yes okay would it be fair to say that Chad and by extension you are learning about ways to try to get custody back yes okay um is that what led to the drug planting in the car yes you sat here for Testimony that that there there was marijuana planted in Britney dunen's vehicle correct yes um and that you made that call to call the cops to search that car correct yes did you make that call yes where did the it was a bag of marijuana correct yes where did the marijuana come from uh I know now that it came from Mike okay you didn't know that at the time um did Chad put it in the car I believe so yes okay did you put it in the car no okay but you didn't see him put it in the car correct you're just making an assumption right correct okay who's whose plan was that Chad's okay and did he tell you about it yes and did you tell him that's a bad idea um I suggested that it was a bad idea but ultimately I let it go okay you let it go to the point where you participated in this plan right yes do you realize that what you did there just your part is a crime yes you know that now I do know that did the GPS tracker have anything to do with that drug planting scheme um I don't think so I don't think they had the tracker at that point okay so the the drug planting would have predated the GPS is that correct correct okay um if you know had Chad made um prior attempts to get drugs into either Britney or Ashley's car before he ultimately got him in there uh prior to when I called at the school yeah not that I'm aware of okay did he know that Britney Dunson car didn't lock I don't know okay and so is it fair to say that your role in that plan was to call the was to call the police yes to make the call right yes and and lie to the cops right yes okay um what did you say to the cops um that I had seen um I can't remember who was driving but the driver of the vehicle um with a joint in her hand sticking out the window a you said a joint a joint okay and what happened after that um the police came down to the school um they searched Britney's car and they did not find the drugs okay what did you think about that I was surprised okay so then what' you do um at that time uh I think I just went home okay does that car get searched again um apparently yes I wasn't aware of it at the time okay and what happened um I guess they did find the drugs at that point okay and did did Brittney Dunson get charged with possession of marijuana no did Ashley bigs get charged with possession of marijuana no um did you and Chad get charged with anything related to this no so nobody gets charged right what was the purpose the end goal of that plan um the idea being that if um Ashley was putting Grace In Harm's Way um by doing illegal things um that it would give us some legal grounds to get it back so is it your testimony here today that the purpose of the drug planting scheme was to help get Grace back yes okay and did that plan work yeah okay and we heard about a there's actual police report in an investigation done into this drug planting um so did I mean did that make you nervous um I didn't really know that there had been a police report um but getting involved with the police with the excuse me getting involved with the police like that did make me nervous okay was Chad upset that it failed yes how do you know that um because he was angry I mean he expressed his anger okay did it make the custody battle even more contentious at that point uh I think so okay did you ever get an indication from Jay and Cindy cob about their thoughts on the custody battle yes and what were those thoughts um they were extremely upset um that things weren't being resolved um they didn't think that Ashley was fit to be a mother um and they really wanted Chad to take more action they didn't understand why this was is taking so long um you know questioned him a lot about it um was there talk of maybe getting a different lawyer Yeah we actually went and met with one um would that be in I guess in in your mind or Chad's mind like a more aggressive lawyer yeah somebody maybe with more experience in that particular um area were there things that that Chad wanted filed that weren't filed um I don't know about that he used to write like basically novels to Beth judge like this is going on and this is going on and do something about it and I think um yeah I guess it's fair to say that there were things that he wanted filed that were not lawyers love that and their clients okay so is it fair to say that Chad was invested in this case very um what kind of toll was it taking on Chad as it was not going the way you guys wanted it to go um he became progressively more frustrated progressively more Angry progressively more obsessed um we heard testimony and on on we heard heard your voice on that tape and just by the way is that your voice on that tape yes did you have that conversation with Cindy Cobb yes I did okay we'll get to that in a in a few minutes we heard we heard your voice on that tape talking about um it was in the context of the custody thing it was talking about a Tipping Point for Chad um what was that about um I think I'm referring to uh a little bit of back and forth with the guardian ad lium so um the guardian ad Liam had met with both of us both parties explain to the jury what the guardian ad Liam's role is in the custody case sorry sure so she's like an independent person um who uh the court brings on on to look out for the interest of the child who can be involved in you know hearing both sides and kind of in real time and seeing you know what's going on with the kid and sometimes that person's an attorney right yes was the was the guardian at lium in Grace's case an attorney do you know I believe so okay that's fine um so you're talking about a Tipping Point go ahead um and she said something like she didn't know who to believe I think she said that to be judge and um Chad's reaction was like cataclysmic he was um like what am I supposed to do here you know like I uh We've we've taken all the legal actions we've gone all the Avenues that we can and still here we are in this position where um you know we're no closer to getting Grace back do you think strike that was the drug planning scheme maybe a reaction to that frustration uh I would say so yes did you said cataclysmic correct did he ever have times where he just wanted to give up and to say to hell with it yeah so he would kind of go back and forth sometimes um he would be um you know really obsessed writing this big email to Beth judge about you know why don't you address this this and this and then you know he turned around and be really despondent and be like well um you know I guess I can't be Grace's Dad I'll just I'll terminate my parental rights which I guess you can't actually do um but he didn't know that at the time okay so is it fair to say it was taken quite a toll on him yes okay but did he give up no okay he kept going with it yes okay at some point was a a plan of a second drug planting discussed yes and what was that uh because the marijuana didn't work um Chad felt that something stronger and potentially some paraphernalia um would have a better success um that it would work so what was Chad's plan um he was going to get a hold of some meth from I guess somebody that he went to high school with sold it um you said meth yes methamphetamine yes okay um and that he was going to place that in Ashley's car and then that we would either call her the the police or somebody um in authority to to get the police there so they would find the drugs what would be the purpose of that plan um so that Ashley would be arrested and so that we could go to court and say look she's been arrested for drug trafficking um you know she's not fit to parent so it would help with the custody case yes okay and was part of the plan and a central part of the plan that nobody know it was Chad that had done it correct yes what was your reaction when you heard this plan um um wary why um was highly illegal it would put heat on us um and it already had not worked once so you had tried it once and failed right right so why would you want to do it again right um did you talk them out of It ultimately no okay um did you discuss I mean you you talked about the legal Court plans with the attorney right yes and now you've discussed an illegal second stronger drug planting plan correct yes which is illegal and we'll talk about that in a minute but that's not talking about it but what happened it's IL legal correct yes okay aside from those two Avenues did you ever talk about other plans involving Ashley or getting Grace back no okay did Chad ever offer Ashley money to go away and get Grace back uh that was early early on in the custody battle okay tell us about that um so he was trying to get um like they had a mediation at one point he was trying to get to where he could legally sit down with and um have a discussion and say hey what do you you know what's your what's your price to drop this did you learn that that could be a solution once you started to speak to the lawyer and get involved in that like pay paying her money to to come to some agreement um you mean was it did the attorney suggest it sure yes okay um we heard Chad testify that he asked Ashley to go to Luigi's you remember that I do if you know was that to go and discuss that payment it could have been okay but you so you don't know I don't fair enough um I think you do know this though did the did the payoff plan did that work no okay so did Ashley and and Britney did they did they go away no did they agree to Shared Parenting or anything like that uh ultimately no so is it your testimony here today that after that and other plans failed you and Chad started discussing this second stronger drug planting plan yes you said methamphetamine do do you know why he didn't just try weed again um I guess cuz it was Stronger it was more illegal okay um nobody got charged or anything in the first one right right um was it was it your hope that maybe somebody would get charged if it's a stronger kind of drug that was the idea okay um and you also said meth but do do you know what it was it like in specifically um the only discussion we ever had was that it would be meth that it would what what I'm asking is is is did you get the meth oh no did you see the drugs no um and and do you know the person that they were they were procured from no um do you know when he got them no okay did he ever tell you that he got them no okay and do you know when where he kept it um I don't know where he kept it when we were talking about it I told him that he couldn't keep keep it in the house um like you're not you're not putting that kind of heat on the house you're not having that around my kids um so it's going to need to be somewhere else so it sounds like you start to grow a conscience at that point right I guess you could say that I mean you're not stopping him from this highly illegal plan right right you're discussing it with him right right did you have a role in it besides the help talking to him about it yes what was your role um I needed to be the one to alert the authorities once the drugs were in her car okay and how what was the plan in terms of how to get the drugs in there Chad was going to do it um he was going to sneak them in there um there are a couple of different iterations of how that could happen um but the main point being that he would be unseen drop them off nobody would know that they were in there um you know and that she would you know then she would get caught with them and then well let's go back then was was part of the plan that you call and order a pizza out to an address and get her car available that's ultimately what ended up happening okay so is it fair to say that your part of the plan was to to make two calls right call the pizza place and then call the police yes and do you realize that by doing those things you're committing multiple felonies yes possession of drugs uh falsification of a police report um perjury all manner of crimes right yes are you committing aggravated murder or Murder by doing that no so in the first drug planting plan your job was to make a call right yes in the second drug planting plan your job is to to make a call yes you're the caller yes did you and Chad have a particular day or time set up to get this plan into motion no so I guess let's take let's take us back to or take the jury back to June 20th 2012 um what happened that day um where do you want me to start um I guess start with um when this nightmare of a plan and a murder in a day ended up happening start with start there uh Chad had gotten a hold of me um and told me to come pick him up at MCO about what time would this have been evening okay um did were you you were at home yes you had all the kids yes how old was your youngest child at that point uh KC was about two and a half months um were you breastfeeding KC yes okay um so we're talking car seats diapers breastfeeding I mean the whole thing right yes okay um had you already fed the kids yes um was it unusual to get a call like that from Chad for him to not be home for dinner and then get a call to says come meet me yeah that's pretty normal why is that normal um he's always running around doing stuff working on his truck um what have you do you know what he was doing at his dad's company that day I don't okay um did he call and want you to pick him up to go do this plan or did you know when you were driving there um I he told me once I actually had him in the car he said is about to get arrested okay before we go any further you've testified that if Ashley gets arrested for possess let's say possession of meth it helps that ultimate goal of getting Grace back correct yes would murdering Ashley bigs help the custody case I don't see how how could it I mean how would it hurt um Chad would be the immediate suspect um it would be worse was Chad the immediate suspect in this case yes was Chad caught almost right away in this case yes where did Grace go after Chad got caught in this case um immediately to foster care but then with Britney so killing Ashley bigs actually enabled Grace to stay with Britney correct right so you go into you pick Chad up at mitco correct yes and you learn about that the that Ashley's going to get arrested correct yes so then take the jury through what happens uh Chad drove through akan um passed the Domino's location um where she was working hold on Chad drove Chad drove okay keep going um and kind of identify that she was in fact at work um and then he drove down Turkeyfoot Lake Road um to a small commercial building okay when you picked Chad up at mitco what is he wearing he was wearing regular clothes at that point work clothes um he had his cob cable shirt on and jeans is it that yellow cob cable shirt that we've seen call it green but yes or like a a high visibility shirt yes okay and he had jeans yes was he carrying anything uh he had his backpack with him um what's the color or style of that backpack it's camo did he frequently carry that yeah he carried it kind of like a purse like a woman would carry a purse okay but it was a backpack yes okay um when you picked him up at mitco um he was not in full camouflage no okay um did he have a a knife or a taser on his belt no did he have duct tape and zip ties that you could see that were visible no okay flashlight face makeup all that stuff he didn't have any of that on him none of that is it possible that all of that stuff was in that book bag or that backpack yes so you guys drive by Domino's and see her car there correct yes what what is the risk that somebody else shows up and delivers that pizza I mean if that were to have happened he just would have abandoned the plan okay um what if um Matt Travis who we heard from the manager of dominoes what if they pulls up and you know Ashley gets out and Matt Travis is sitting in the front seat what happens then I would assume that the the plan would have been scratched okay so is it your testimony that Chad not being seen or having any confrontation with Ashley is the essential part of this plan it's crucial okay you made mention of some it sounds like pretty light attempts to talk him out of this is that fair to say that's fair okay um while you guys are in the car and you've got four kids including an infant does it ever occur to you to talk him out of this felony plan I mean yes why don't you I wish I had did um did you guys have burner phones for this plan yes why is that so that um if there was any kind of noise from Ashley about um you know they put the they put this these drugs in the car there would be no affiliation with her work and any phones that we were attached to so are you saying that that you were afraid that if they tracked the call to Domino to you or to Chad it could come up in court and blow the yeah we wanted no affiliation between us and and the situation so is it your testimony that it's not only essential that Chad not be seen but that you guys aren't involved in this scheme at all yes did you guys go to Walmart and get minutes for those phones yes and that's that picture we saw saw yes and you're holding the baby and he's got a little one up on his shoulders yeah that's FC okay so is that's your testimony is that it was for that plan to get those burn did you get phones there or just the cards um I think just the cards yeah who got the phones uh Chad okay how many phones I think just the two okay um did did you have one yes and did he have one yes I understand why you'd want to have the burner phone to make the call to Dominoes but why have another phone um in case we needed to get in touch with each other okay is that because you didn't want to use your your real cell phones that are attached to your names to be calling each other that night right we saw um we saw the actual zip ties and pictures of them and things like that had you ever seen those zip ties before um he had zip ties like those on his trucks okay but did you see those exact ones have you ever seen those I mean I don't know okay um you guys had a you guys had a detach you guys had an attached garage yes and was there a workshop in there yes whose Workshop was that Chad okay and is that for cob cable company kind of I mean a little bit of both you had some household stuff there too okay what involvement did you have yourself with zip ties either small ones or big ones like we saw here none okay did you have the small ones in the house like as a in a drunk drawer or something yeah okay kind of like you tie a cable up with it like behind the TV or something like that kind of like this over here okay did you ever deal with the three to four foot long ones I did not no okay um if you if you saw them stored how would they be stored when they weren't in use um do you mean like where were they stored no how were they stored um like when they're like wrapped up um and then held together with another zip tie like a small one okay so are you saying that they would be stored like spiraled up yes okay so when you saw them they were never stored kind of lengthwise laid out okay and would that be easier to transport then if they're smaller yes okay could those fit in a backpack sure so I interrupt edia and I apologize but you you go to Chad is driving and drives past dominoes okay right okay I just want to pick up where you left off I apologize um he you verify that she's there correct yes and then what happens uh he drives to a uh location on Turkey Foot Lake Road was that 647 West Turkeyfoot Lake Lake Road that we've heard about no where is it um I'm assuming it was very close by okay was it in a in a business next door or down the street or what yeah I'm I'm assuming it was right next door okay um could you from there could you see that building where Ashley was killed no okay um at that point you guys are in that parking lot nearby correct yes was it walking distance to to that parking lot where Ashley got killed yes okay um and I guess to Jump Ahead a little bit the plan was you would drop him off make the call and and then what was your part after that uh I needed to wait for him to call me okay and at that point then you've testified that that you would call the police and say she's swerving or some give some reason to get the car pulled over yes okay um where were you supposed to be when Chad's planting the drugs um I was supposed to be still at the location where I had dropped him off okay um were you ever supposed to take the navigator to 647 West Turkeyfoot Lake Road no and why not I mean the the whole idea was to be invisible um is it fair to assume that business could have camera or something sure and if that car is there that's not a good thing right right so would you ever want to be dropping off or picking him up there no okay so you guys are at this business next to the the the closed business and what happens um I'm waiting for a while um longer than I felt I should have been well let's let's go back there there was a lot of testimony about a tree oh a conversation under a tree what what's that mean to you tell us about that um so right before I made the phone call to Domino's um Chad seems to think that there was some kind of like big discussion and under this tree um that was in the parking lot um and he references it later in our relationship quite a bit he's obsessed obessed with it don't you remember the time at the tree and what I said and um I don't really know that aside from the fact that you know we were talking about committing felonies I don't remember any what he's referring to he's like this was you know you this is your fault because the time at the tree and I don't at the business next door to where Ashley was killed did you guys get out of the um Navigator and have a conversation yes were there around I mean yes okay okay um so did you did you in fact make the call the Fateful call to Domino's that night yes I did and did you give a fake name yes I did and did you order a pizza yes what was that pizza that you ordered I think I just ordered a pepperoni pizza okay and what what name did you give Jennifer did you give a last name I don't believe so so you made that call yes I did when you make that call what does Chad do um at that point that was when he went back into the woods what Woods um kind of behind the the commercial building where we were if you walk backwards um that whole area he walked off behind Okay um there's a lake back there but there's like some some wooded areas surrounding that is that what you're referring to yes okay and did you see him put the camo on and all that stuff no okay um when he left you what was he wearing um he was still wearing the the cob cable shirt the jeans okay um did he when he left your field of vision and it's it's dark at it's pretty dark at this point 11:30 or so right p.m. right um when he walked away from you did you see uh a taser no did you see a diving knife no did you see three to 4 foot long industrial zip ties no at that point your job is to wait for a call from Chad correct yes from your position there at that business next to it can is is it true can you see into that parking lot where she was murdered no after you make the call and he walks off what happens after that um so I waited for the call um it seemed like it was getting to be an awfully long time um but then ultimately I did get a call from him um we heard testimony for Matt Travis that he wants that pizza out the door in 12 minutes or something best man best pizza shop manager I've ever seen he wants to get that thing out there quickly right yes um when you say it felt like it was taking a long time he felt like it it it wasn't going to take that long to get that pizza out there and to be getting a call from Chad saying hey come pick me up correct yes where were where were you going to pick him up um he was just GNA return okay at that business next to it okay [Music] um about how long do you think elapsed before you get that call from Chad maybe half an hour okay what are the kids doing during all of this um I had a DVD on for him okay um you had some sort of flip down situation okay yes um was the baby sleeping he must have been or would have been noisy so they were either sleeping or watching movie are these the actions of a good mother at this point no are these the actions of a good person no so you get the call after about a half an hour and what happens um he tells me to meet him at his bridge and he tells me that he has Ashley's car what is your reaction when you hear that why do you have Ashley's car um and and he's like just just we'll talk about it meet me in my bridge and he disconnected do you know what he means when he says my bridge yeah so um it's a location near his parents house that he's always it's like his fort I guess um that he always went to from the time he was a little kid did he take you to that bridge ever when you guys were dating sure guys would go there make out whatever I don't to make out but yeah okay you heard testimony that that was he and Ashley's Bridge so when he says the bridge my bridge you know where he's talking about yes Erica when you get that call why don't you drive immediately to the police station I was scared I didn't know exactly what was going on do you you know she's dead no do you have a bad feeling about that though um I have a bad feeling why does he have her car is there any reason for him to be in her car no was the plan that he's never in her car and no one knows he's there correct yes you've got young children in your car yes for their sake you don't take yourself and them to the police station corre correct correct could that be because you're involved now I mean I'm sure that was part of it are you thinking to yourself I made the call I mean I wasn't quite freaking out about it yet um Mora was just like just the fact that he had her vehicle was okay did you see did you ever see her her car drive in no did you see her car drive out no um but I saw it on the way to the bridge okay did you so you didn't follow Chad necessarily I mean I ended up behind him it's kind of a series of on Lane we the jury and I did it it's it's kind of a series of on lane or two lane roads correct yes so there's kind of one way you'd go right okay so do you drive to the bridge yes you don't drive to the police station right okay what happens when you get to the bridge um at first uh Chad wasn't there um I waited for a while and then I started to really get panicky because he wasn't there um did you see any cars around would this have been about 1 in the morning at this point yeah is um so you don't see Chad you don't see any other cars what do you do uh after sitting for a while I loop back around um that whole road to see if he's in any other location nearby um and when I see him I park back near the bridge again did you see um headlights or tail lights out in a field anywhere no okay is it possible he had the lights off sure okay so you do a loop around and and you're looking for Chad right yes okay do you ultimately see him um not while I'm driving once I get back to the bridge why didn't you call and use the burner phones I had thrown it out the window so now you're tampering with evidence right I guess so yeah okay um that's another felony right yes okay um why would you throw that phone out the window um because I didn't want to be associated with it I was always the plan to discard it but at this point it seemed prudent to go ahead and do that now is it fair to say that you're in trouble at this point yes and you don't want to be in trouble true okay so when do you see Chad um maybe five minutes after I had pulled back into the area by the bridge so this is after you've done your Loop yes and instead of doing another loop you just stay there and say I'm just gonna wait for this guy yes okay and where do you see him um he came out of the Corn like he was crouched and then he stood up came toward me okay what was he wearing um at this point he had camo pants on and what was on his head uh at that point nothing was on his head okay what was in his hands um no well he had his backpack over his shoulder nothing was in hands okay um as he gets closer to the car um do you notice anything about him um there's a big patch of what looks like blood on his chest and is that that high visibility cob cable company t-shirt we saw Yes um what is Chad's demeanor when he gets up to the car um he's not himself um in what way he's like shaky um fidgety he's normally like a really fluid calm guy even when he's angry did you find out what the hell happened ultimately yes what happened um grounds it be she wasn't present inar response that's fine so you don't know what happened I don't know what happened you weren't there in that parking lot right true you don't know what Chad did right what have you learned in being charged with this well your hus ex-husband being charged you getting charged and you sitting through this trial what did Chad do um he uh deployed a taser and let's do a sidebar please Erica do you know what happened in that back parking lot at 647 West Turkey Foot Road do you know for a fact like you were there if a person was there what happened back there I know for a fact what happened back there okay were you back there no and you learned what happened back there from Chad cob correct yes but because of the objection we we can't get into that so we'll move on okay were you in the back there at 647 West Turkey Foot Lake Road no okay could you see from your Vantage Point Point what happened back there no was the plan then or at any point to kill Ashley bicks no why not aside from the fact that you don't kill people yes um it wouldn't have made any sense I mean the the goal was to to get Grace back and if Chad's being focused on as a murder suspect then it negates the whole purpose when a young woman dies in America who do the cops look at first um her spouse her partner baby dad her her ex yeah that is embroiled in a long custody battle yes would it make any sense to kill Ashley BS no Chad comes up to the car and he gets in the passenger seat is that correct yes and what happens he tells me to drive him home okay do you drive home yes what happens when you get home um I get the kids out of the car um and try to get them settled I assume that we're staying home um Chad goes in gets in the shower um and I follow him in there does he go into the house with his clothes that he had on and his bag definitely his clothes okay do you know where the bag is at this point I don't recall okay did you ever before he killed her or after handle this bag uh that day no I don't know if I've ever in my life touched it okay did you pack it for him no okay would you no okay you followed him into the the bathroom and did you learn that Ashley was dead yes okay and what was your reaction to that um I felt like I had been hit with a ton of bricks okay um I felt like I was going to be sick were you sick yes okay what happened um I just had to sit down and I just scooted over the toilet and threw up okay did you feel like you're going to get charged with murder um at that point I yes okay and it took a while but you did right yes okay after he showers then what happens um so he left the bathroom while I was being sick um and the next thing I did was get Kai and feed him cuz he was crying okay um did you did you guys leave the house at some point yes why Chad said that he needed to get Ashley's phone um that he could fix this did that make any sense to you whatsoever none why um because he's told me that she's dead his her car is in this field and you want to go and get a phone like they're and and where what do you it didn't make sense did you believe that maybe at that point the cops had been there for an hour it definitely didn't seem like a safe place to go okay did you order the pizza to 647 West Turkey Foot Lake Road yes if Ashley is missing where's the first place the cops are going to go to her last delivery location 647 West Turkey Foot Lake Road yes did you resist going back there yes um I tried to stay home with the kids he wasn't having it um he was angry he was ordering making orders um and it just seemed better to go along and not I didn't know what he would do if I tried to argue with him okay did you drive back to to 647 West Turkey Foot Lake Road or did he he did and you are in the passenger seat yes and all four of those kids are still now back into that car right yes do you drive to six or does he drive to 647 Westy fo Lake Road um he drove past it but when he drove past it he saw flashlights so he kept going who who was that obviously that must have been the police what was the demeanor in that car when you guys saw the cops in that parking lot um I mean I was probably as white as my shirt is right now um Chad was totally panicked um what was his demeanor he he is he beaten on the steering wheel um I'm I'm [ __ ] um we're [ __ ] I don't know I don't know what to do we're [ __ ] um excuse my language um uh and then he um drove to his grandma's house do you know why you guys ended up there I think it was a safe spot for him that was his grandmother's house yeah he wanted to like try to regroup and figure out what to do did you ever suggest going to going to the cops no okay why not um at this point I thought that we were both in massive amounts of trouble okay um and I didn't want to lose my kids you did lose your kids though right for a while yes I did you've lost your freedom right yes when you get to the Grandma's house do you ever get out of the car uh yes okay and what' you do um we were out of the car talking at one point okay um about how long were you there before officer harget shows up I I couldn't tell you do you think it was it was a while okay more than an hour probably okay um what what is Chad do doing during all of this um he kept getting in and out of the car going to use his phone okay um do you know if he made any calls yes do you well you weren't with him in the when he was driving Ashley's car correct correct so he could have made calls that you are unaware of sure including to your current husband sure okay um do you know who he called who he may have called when he was at his grandma's house um I know he called his mom for sure his parents for sure did he still have his burner phone I don't know what phone was he making these calls on um it was a flip phone but I'm not sure did was his normal phone a flip phone yes okay I think it was his phone that he was using to call his mom when you guys were at his grandma's house did he ever do anything out like on the back of the the car um he was back there for a minute um I don't know what he was doing you didn't see him messing with those stick figure things I I didn't notice him doing that at the time no you had other things on your mind yes okay what are the kids doing at this point it's almost morning right yeah um the two older ones are sleeping um FC is periodic up and crawling around um she seemed to think it was a good time what are we doing this is fun um Casey woke up and um at least once that needed to eat than that he was sleeping do you remember officer haret who we heard from do you remember him walking up to the car yes do you remember talking to him I don't remember talking to him so you don't remember remember lying to him I mean I don't have a specific memory of it but I'm sure that his recollection is correct okay um if I told you that in addition to saying I don't know what's going on well let's start there you knew what was going on right yes maybe not everything you don't know what happened back there exactly but you knew what was going on right yes you tell him I don't know where Chad is that's a lie right yes I mean you didn't know maybe exactly where he was but you knew he was out in those woods hiding right I knew he had gone that way yes okay how did he go how did he run back there or what yes okay and you stayed yes okay do you remember telling officer harget something about uh Chad came in and said get in the car and I don't know what we're doing here yeah yes okay you don't remember telling him I think my husband killed Ashley bigs you didn't tell him that did you I didn't tell him that you didn't tell him I made a call to get Ashley bigs out there and now she's dead you didn't tell him that right right you didn't tell him I I think that that her body's in the field by his parents house you didn't tell him that no why not uh once again because I didn't want to lose him or my kids is that something that a good person would do no they find Chad in the woods they take you to New Franklin police station right yes and you are you thinking I'm cut yes okay did um you ask for a lawyer uh yes did you get arrested that day no no I didn't were you surprised um I guess I was kind of surprised okay while you well it sounds like you didn't have the plan to kill her or even Chad did but she ended up dead right right when you were making this plan with Chad and executing the original plan was there ever a time in your mind that you thought that Ashley Biggs would die absolutely not when you had the first drug planting plan was there never a moment during that plan and the execution of it that you thought that Britney Dunson would die no or Ashley bigs would die in the first one no do you take seizure medication yes I do did you have it with you that night I don't remember probably okay if you had a plan to kill Ashley bicks would you bring your kids with you no would you participate in that plan in the first place no after Chad gets arrested did you stand by him yes okay did you tell the police what happened no would that have implicated you yes you're you've got an NBA but you're you're not a lawyer right correct um you were and maybe still are unaware of the theories of complicity correct a little I know a little bit about more about it than I used to sure but at that time you're thinking it's I'm I'm done a murder right I mean murder yeah okay shortly after well at least a few months after this um you get with his best friend right yes what how did you feel about that um I mean I felt guilty um I was a real hot mess at that point so how so drunk all the time um not making wise decisions about my drinking um I mean that was really my life at that point before I sobered up and uh started working I would just drink all day long and did go to jail so your up pretty good yeah did go into jail humble you yes did go into jail expose you to women that had real real problems in their lives yes at some point after you guys unsuccessfully tried to keep cob cable company going you decided to sell stuff off correct correct yes um did was did some of that equipment have like loans on it or was it all paid off um it was all paid off okay so that stuff had value then right yeah okay um and um what did you do with the proceeds of that those sales um I saved most of it it it got us through like probably about a year um we were heavily in debt on the mortgage um Chad bought the wrong things um we had a nice new truck but you know $3,000 behind in the mortgage um so I I try to pay all that stuff off um you know just try to get things back to an even ke um and then I just continue to use it like even as I after I had gotten a job just to um make ends meet did you take um any of that money and like give it directly to Mike toan God to Mike no okay but he benefited from it too right yes he was living there and got to enjoy all that that entails right sure okay so you said you were a mess and that you were drinking a lot um would it um would part of that mess be that you're having free flowing conversations with people that don't like you yes okay did Cindy Cobb like you no did you were you were you sure that Mary Brinkman liked you or didn't like you um at that point I thought she liked me okay turns out not so much not so much okay were you guilty or did you like feel guilty like today no back then yes okay what about um I had I wish I had made different decisions um to to talk Chad out of planting the drugs to um not participate myself okay um but you didn't take any action to kind of address that guilt did you no like you just kept going right I wanted to move on with my life yes divorce Chad he's in prison lwop he's never getting out right true just got to keep moving on right yes keep drinking for a long time yes okay did you end up picking up a misdemeanor 4 charge conviction in Wadsworth uh I think it was an M2 okay yes you're you're saying it's higher than what I said yes okay but it misdemeanor right yes what was that um I went through the self checkout at Walmart and didn't scan some of the things that I was walking towards the door with what was it I don't recall okay if I told you it was like dog food and stuff that sounds about right okay and you committed that crime yes and you PL guilty to it right I did and at some point prior to that you go and you have a cocktail with Cindy Cobb right yes and unbeknownst to you she tapes you right yes and this is a woman that you know does not like you whose son is serving life without parole and you just open up to her right basically was that a good idea no yeah did it was it instrumental in finding you on the witness stand fighting for your life yes now the state has played a lot of clips from that tape and they've asked a lot of questions about Clips on that tape to your recollection and and you've heard some of it and all that but just for your recollection did you ever admit to a plan to kill Ashley BS on that no but you did talk about a plan right yeah like for instance on page 15 you say the part he executed went totally arai he said I did my part his part went arai do you remember saying that yes what are you referring to in that um I made the phone call he was supposed to go put drugs in her car and obviously that didn't go as planned when you made that phone call to your knowledge was Chad Cobb armed no did he have the zip ties or the knife or anything on him did you were certain did did you know if he had those on him no I wasn't aware did you have any reason to believe that he would have in a confrontation with her no did you have any reasonable expectation that he would assault and kill her no had you and he ever discussed that no would it make sense to kill Ashley bicks no on the trans or or on the the tape on the transcript page 17 you discuss with Cindy Cobb and that is your voice on there right yes and in addition to saying all this stuff you also say some other terrible things right yes were you a good person back then I was working on it are you working on it still to this day I mean I think I'm a lot closer I let's just get right to it let's get right to it you said you're not sad that Ashley's dead I did say that explain to the jury how we can now listen to anything you're saying um I think at the time I really wasn't sad that she was dead but um since then I've heard from her family I've heard from people that I've been locked up with who have gone through loss and I've just had time to really think about to hold myself accountable um and she lost her life and if I had taken different actions um that night then at a minimum I wouldn't be responsible for it I wouldn't Mike suffered a lot of loss in his life unimaginable loss has he helped you become a better person yeah on page 17 the transcript related to the tape um you discussed Chad quote not turning this situation into something it's not what are you referring to there I mean he really wanted to exempt himself from any responsibility and I didn't think that was fair did he want to try to turn the plan for the drug planting into a plan for murder I don't think so okay did we hear him up on that witness stand ever say there was a plan for murder not that I heard did we hear that his plan was to go to Disney World right yes on page 28 through 29 of the tape you say quote this is what's happened and you're going to do as I say that's just his personality whose personality Chad's you continue on page 29 you say I had no control if I step out of line what's going to happen what's going what's going to happen he's going to punish me until until I comply we heard on that tape on pages 54 and 55 that his mom thinks that Chad snapped you said that you could see him snapping but that he was generally controlled you remember that yes you also say to her that he talked to you in a different way right after it happened did that make you think maybe he did snap um I was of two minds about it either he yeah he did snap or um he had another explanation as well and so it was kind of between the two um I have thought that perhaps he did snap it wasn't the plan though for him to ever be even be seen correct correct but at some point is it your belief that he ended up purposefully murdering Ashley bicks yes you talked to Cindy about well Cindy says I'm thinking it's an anger lash out thing because he doesn't he can't control he can't control and Chad needs to be in control do you remember that vaguely okay do you agree with that that Chad gets angry when he can't be in control yes on the transcript I'm sorry that was on page 63 on transcript page 50 64 of that tape you say you're not going to say that I'm responsible for you being in prison because I'm not you know could I prevented you from being in prison I agree with that but am I responsible did I am I the reason that you're in prison am I some piece of [ __ ] and I diabolically plan for you to be in prison no did did you make that statement yes what did you mean by that um that whatever led him to kill her has nothing to do with me that that wasn't something that we talked about that wasn't something I encouraged him to do um he needs to take responsibility for that when you talk about in that tape generally um I might have been able to stop him I could have told him not to do it or whatever are you referring to the drug planting plan or some plan that involved assaulting or killing her I was talking about the drug planting plan when you're talking about that last part on page 64 um are you saying that like the drug plan was not executed obviously right um I'm sorry can you repeat what you're referring to so let me just ask was the plan to plant drugs the first time or the second time a success it was not successful do you remember on in that and this is on transcript page 126 discussing with Cindy about taking out a a life insurance policy on yourself yes why what were you talking about there um that if it came down to it and I was going to have to spend a significant amount of time in prison that I'd rather die okay you talk about with Cindy um you there's a quote This is the only way this situation is going to go away what situation were you talking about there the custody battle okay and how was that situation going to go away if Ashley was no longer a fit parent okay and the court would award us custody if Ashley dies is murdered does that situation go away that situation gets worse in fact Britney Dunson still ends up with Grace right yes and chadson prison and you're charged with murder right right towards the end of the conversation with her page 159 you say if he had got what as what was supposed to happen that night yeah happened than it was he had a perfect plan but it didn't go the way it was supposed to at all and why that is I don't know because he told it to me two different ways if the plan was to murder her then that plan went perfectly right I mean that's what happened if the plan was to plant drugs that plan failed spectacularly didn't it yes we heard some talk in there about Chad saying things like you know kind of ranting and raving about Ashley I'm going to keep her skull as a trophy right what did that mean to you that he was going to have her literal skull up on a mantle no I mean I thought it was a euphemism thought he was being dramatic okay um as it relates to the C C case yes Chad didn't like to keep evidence around right I mean no okay of what crimes I mean no okay you talk in there with Cindy if the truth comes out we'd both be imprison right now you remember saying that yes can you go to prison for possessing drugs I believe so can you go to prison for planting drugs on a person to get an advantage in a custody case yes can you go to prison for making that call to set up to to to get the Catalyst to get Ashley out there to get the drugs planted yes can you go to prison for after you find out that I've got Ashley's car that you don't call the cops and you in fact go and pick him up I I think I would that would be you're helping him right can you go to prison for throwing that phone out the window that you made the call probably should a person do some time for that stuff yes you talk on that tape about every time I hear a siren looking over my shoulder I don't know when that Heat's coming down you remember that yes why why was I always looking over my shoulder yeah was that because you helped plan and commit a murder no is it because you helped plan a drug planting yes did Chad and Chad had power over you you right yes if he could convince detective Hitchins that you made that call that's power right yes if he can convince his mom to secretly tape you never talking about a murder but talking about the plan and can get that to detective Hitchin that's power right yes and if she and if he can get Mary Brinkman to say oh yeah she told me about it too that's power right yes did he use that power yes did it work in what way are you sitting on trial for aggravated murder yes for making that call yes just like you made that previous call when you guys planted the pot right yes you heard you talked to Chad after he went to prison you heard him testify is it your impression from him he thinks he's getting out he's not getting out does he think he's getting out oh yeah um yeah sustained don't answer that you've been sitting in jail for over four years now right yes in your time in jail when people provide information to the government and I'm not saying that the state here has made any agreement does it typically help that defendant or that incarcerated person get a little consideration I don't answer that don't answer that it's your own personal experience judge let's do a side bar please Okay so we've talked about and you've admitted here multiple crimes are you aware of that yes okay um and are you do you feel like you're being punished for those crimes right now I mean I've been locked up for four years okay it's been pretty awful so do you feel like you've got a lot of atonement to do for things you've done in your life yes do you think that by you're you're saying that you're guilty of a lot of stuff in your life but that you're not guilty of aggravated murder and murder is that correct yes um and that you'll accept responsibility for your part in this correct yes do you believe that Chad has accepted responsibility for his part objection basis why is what is relevance is why she relevance is your basis response I I guess I can ask her if Chad's pled guilty in this case that's fair has Chad plad guilty yes in this case yes and part of what he pled guilt he pleed guilty to a lot of things but two of the crimes were aggravated murder murder and murder correct yes have you plad not guilty to aggravated murder and murder yes is it your belief that you are not guilty yes of those offenses yes do you feel remorse as we sit here today yes for what for a lot of things for for um for my treatment of Grace for a hurting Chad for and primarily for all the actions I just had to testify about um I feel remorse for those things when you went to jail in 2019 that was obviously traumatic for you and your family correct yes in a way was that maybe what you needed I think that it was maybe fair that maybe God sat me down did it give you perspective on your life yes did it make you see people that actually were really suffering yes if you were able to get out of jail one day would it be your intention to try to rebuild your life with Mike objection judge what what's the relevance you can answer that over old I'm talking about your personal life this is this is your personal story is that what you would want to yes may have one moment judge mhm I have no further questions you honor thanks Erica

Channel: COURT TV

Views: 365,152

Keywords: erica stefanko, ashley biggs, erica stefanko trial, Ashley Biggs, stefanko retrial, erica stefanko takes the stand, oh v erica stefanko, court live, court tv, court tv full trials, court tv investigation, court tv live, court tv live stream, court tv live stream free today, court tv live stream today, court tv on the docket, court tv trials, how do i find court tv, live court tv full trials, true crime, stefanko testimony, Pizza Delivery Murder Retrial, Chad cobb

Id: fbMOWtmMKr8

Length: 114min 42sec (6882 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 30 2024