Emma Webber Calls for Homicide Law Change Following Son's Killing in Nottingham Attack

well she couldn't have put it more simply yesterday could she and I quote murderers are getting away with murder that's the Stark warning from Emma Weber who son babby of course was killed in the Nottingham attacks Last Summer the killer valdo cakan pleaded guilty to manslaughter by diminished responsibility and he was sentenced to an indefinite Hospital order but after a review into how the crime prosecution service handled the case the victim's families are calling for an overhaul in the laws around homicide they want a three- tier system meaning people with mental illness you kill like valdo calican could still be convicted of second deegree murder which is not a crime currently that exists does it Emma thank you so much for being with us I this week has been another it's been another tough week hasn't it another one to add to the other tough weeks but yeah no it's thank you for having me um we're sharing the burden between the families but you know I do appreciate the opportunity to come in today good thank you you were told um that the uh what had happened when the CPS accepted this individual's plea of guilty to manslaughter because of diminished responsibility the whole point of this most recent review was to check if that was right or wrong and it was decided that was right yeah but instinctively everybody feels that was wrong yeah because what everybody feels and no one more than the families is that your children were murdered yeah that Ian coats was murdered but there is no currently system under which somebody with paranoid schizophrenia can be held responsible for murder if they if they have diminished responsibility I think our laws need the change and and I hope he doesn't mind me quoting but I'm going to do it anyway as Alex chalk Minister for justice said to to me said Emma just because it's the law it doesn't mean it's right and just because of the law it doesn't mean it doesn't need to change and this is evidence of that I think that the fact that you have murder or you have manslaughter it it it's too binary because the the laws were brought in when we still had capital punishment in this country if you look at not not sort of lording lording the the um justice system in America but at least there is the opportunity for second deegree murder and it states in the review that the CPS did and whilst we were disappointed with the outcome we weren't surprised um we still have some very grave concerns particularly with the with with the psychiatric reports but it states in black and white that if in 2006 the law commission's recommendations have been upheld in this country not thrown out by Parliament then the opportunity to uh charge cakan with second degree murder so there was a penal ele element to his punishment would would have been appropriate just just to cut right to it it's basically the use of the word murder isn't it you need to hear the word murder I guess so I I I think Pro initially yes and we were led to believe all summer all Autumn into the early winter that um it was murder irrefutable he's going down this this this is by the police so it came with a real shock when we heard the word manslaughter because it lessens it somewhat we never really had the tearing in how it works explained to us but I think what it's become more is the fact that this this individual he he it wasn't a sudden psychosis it wasn't an opportune moment he planned he had a Ru sack full of weapons he knew what he was doing um he knew that it was wrong and he did it anyway and he carried on doing it but he had the ability to make some rational decisions buying himself a sandwich getting some money out speaking to people and choosing not to kill them speaking to his brother on the telephone so so for us there there's he is not without culpability no so it's there he's gone to a hospital he's a patient he he he's not under any form of punishment for what he's done no and I think when he's when he we we agree that he's obviously clearly terribly mentally unwell but there are an awful lot of people like that out there and I think also on the back of the CQC initial urgent reports yesterday for not Ure Health Trust um I think it's a case of when it happens next not if unless things change rapidly because these people out in the community they're not getting their support they need but also the judicial system is not providing support the victims and their families need there is also the anomaly that he was found guilty of attempted murder yeah when it came to other people yeah because you can't be you can't be guilty of attempted manslaughter so how he managed to to do what he was desperately trying to do and and and and kill those that he he ran over then that would have again been manslaughter but that's just an example of just it's the law that's the way it works it's you know I feel I say it's box ticking but it's it's just having to put it I think the judge was put in a situation in the courtroom and I think the CPS well I I do have some other opinions about CPS but but but overall I I do think based on what they were presented with um particularly from the doctors they they didn't really have another Choice it's been suggested that the fact that the families uh were consulted possibly misled you that you felt that in being consulted and being allowing to express your opinion you would therefore in some way shape or form be influencing the due process did you feel that when you were being consulted that you would been giving a chance to influence the outcome of the trial no I think I foolishly um had faith in the judicial system we were told the first person we met when we got to Nottingham as a chief Constable she said it's okay Emma we've got him he's going down and I just thought they all of my world is destroyed I don't know what else to do but that's going to happen there were consult I I I did take exception to because we weren't consulted but the real problem with the CPS is is the is the the lack of of communication and explanation um up until the 24th of November which was the first time we met with them when they told us they were going to accept the plea of diminished responsibility so I think it was a it was presented to us um we don't expect to give them instruction the cpfs make the decision we understand that I think it was the process we we still are not happy that it it's the victims we're not it's not consulted but we're not informed we don't I I'm not a stupid person but I do not understand the intricacies of our our legal system in the UK but you understand the meaning of the word indefinite he's been sentenced to an indefinite period in the secure hospital but indefinite could mean anything I mean it could mean two years yeah he could be declared mentally Fit and Well in two or three years time in which case the Justice secretary could be looking at a petition to have him released yeah it's very difficult not to release him if he responds to medication so despite hearing words like you won't see the light of day again those words were those those words had the caveat of it's unlikely you'll be released you probably won't see and this is by the judge so we know for a fact from Julian hendy who's supporting us through his charity 100 families that n sorry 87% of people on indefinite Hospital orders are out within 10 years and 98% of them are out within 20 years which makes KHAK Kan 52 when he comes out if he came out in 20 years time and it's it's for us that I we still haven't heard from the court of appeal we are really hopeful that that sentence the unul lenient sentence will be listened to and will be addressed that is being reviewed yeah we're still waiting to hear but of course if he did come out um earlier uh there'd be nothing to stop him not taking his medication again yeah well that's what he's done he's he's he's known to not take his medication he's stock part his medication there we have lots of issues with the police and their investigation and the fact that they took absolutely no toxicology on him they didn't even breathalizer van J but they took full toxicolog on Barnaby um in and and Grace um so it's it's for us it's it's just it's abhorent that that could that could happen and that could be so missed um so there's there's there's clearly signs that this individual um doesn't comply and and doesn't tell the truth and and he is mentally unwell and he takes medication yeah it might help but he's likely to stop taking it again all the missed opportunities yep you are showing so much courage and strength and determination Emma I know it is draining for you but you are doing this for Barnaby and for grace and for Ian and it's just so impressive thank you everyone's overwhelmed with love for you I watched Kate's documentary last night um please tell her for me and and I bowled my eyes out because quite rightly so and there was a part in it when she was reading all of the wonderful letters and things that she's received and she's got I think she said she's got three baskets full so if we so I know and I wanted because we haven't had an opportunity to respond there are so many wonderful people out there who have such good hearts and compassion and I brought this in just to hold because a lady I can't remember where she's from I can't remember her name she made Charlie David and I little Pebble and it's a it's a word it's a phrase that that Dave used be more like Barney and and his dad used that at his funeral and just bit sweaty CU I've been hanging on wonderful how much does that mean to but the fact that she made that and she sent and and I think the letter said something like Barnaby's parents taunt and Somerset and it and it found its way to us our Postman must love us but you know it's but that kind of thing it gives you heart we are getting show that on camera I hope so because I you know one day I will get to write back to everybody but I saw she knows who she is I saw Kate last night going to all of hers and I thought I know how she feels cuz there hundreds well I hope to see you again soon yeah thank you with news of progress oh yes okay loads of love thank you thank you thanks

Channel: Good Morning Britain

Views: 5,261

Keywords: good morning britain, breakfast show, news, morning news, gmb, good morning britain interview, itv, susanna reid, Talk Shows - Topic, nottingham attacks families, nottingham attacks court, nottingham attacks 2023, nottingham attacks sentencing, nottingham attacks interview, nottingham attacks what happened, Emma Webber, emma webber interview

Id: SGwjUWXf7ak

Length: 10min 3sec (603 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 27 2024