ElkNut's Early Season Elk Hunting and Calling Tactics

the cell calling seminar has been brought to you by the Idaho Department fish-and-game elk net outdoors in the elk net mobile app got game technologies and alkie attics this event has been sponsored by XO Mountain Gear sneaky hunter elk shape trips fur trade nature's paint and felts game calls well how's everybody doing this evening well good me too looks like there's a quite a crowd here I actually wasn't expecting nowhere near this many people that's good yeah hey I appreciated what Chris had to say too I really did I enjoyed that so hopefully hopefully everybody else did as well you know with with elk season coming on real close it seems like everybody is kind of have has elk on the brain I know I do before we get into that but if there's a few of you out there don't know who I am my name is Paul Medel and I'm the owner of elk net outdoors I have studied and researched elk vocalizations their mannerisms their behaviors for over 35 years I my son and I we've killed 63 elk with bows in the last 29 years this Friday will be the thirtieth year that we've hunted together and we've been able to go out every opening the day it's that's kind of special to me to be able to do that with your own son you know for those many years and to have success with it on over the counter hunts as I said we've had elf net outdoors for probably 20 22 years now I used to write for elk hunter magazine for almost two years I've been talked about and had articles about elk net outdoors in 20 different magazines I've been in outdoor life three times giving probably 80 seminars all over the place just kind of giving you a little rundown of you know who I am if you guys would have never heard of me in step so that's kind of you know the way that we've been rolling and I've had a passion for all forever and ever since I was 11 years old I'm 64 now and and hasn't waned one little bit and I'm just as excited now to be able to go out there and hunt elk as I was when I first started bow hunting 29 years ago I've hunted off longer than that but I started bow hunting 20 years ago when my son turned 12 and he's killed a bull every year over-the-counter bull with a bow since then and so you know we've had a lot of fun we've been through a lot learning the different sounds that elk make and and and and the different behavior like I say the mannerisms and by studying those things we started carrying those into our hunting so what I'm talking about research and study this is outside of hunting times we're talking about you know June July August and and and and being with the elk when there's really no pressure on him even though there over-the-counter units and this is where we really started to delve in and I say we I mean in me it was me my son wasn't even hardly born then at that time I had had such interest knowing that they had a language and it was all by emotion or tone or cadence of the sound and once I started realizing that I could see that our hunting our efforts in hunting elk especially our tree during September it just started to escalate we we called in a lot of elk and we were we were calling in elk for other people and they're one how are you doing this I told him I said it's true they look localization understanding the different sounds that elk make and there's really not a whole ton of them but what I do want to talk about is three main sequences that I use in the month of September and there's actually five of us in the elk nut team my son and I then three others that are basically solo hunters we don't hunt together my son and I will hunt together or we hunt apart but it's not like we hunt as a group not at all these guys they're just happened to be part of the team when we started all hunting together and who knew it was going to stay together for almost thirty years I mean we didn't it's just one year was up for another another another and and that's kind of how things rolled in and I also want to mention that all this information that I'm going to share with you is on the app so you don't have to worry about trying to remember at all or take notes or memorizing anything because I'm going to share some stuff with you that I know you haven't tried I know you haven't most people have not and maybe you've done some of it or a little bit of it but I'm going to try to put it in perspective here why we do the things we do in and receive the success we do I would say that when we're working a bull when we target a bull on over-the-counter hunts 90% odds I'm gonna have that bow and bow range that one bull I'm not trying to get ten bulls to get one or two in I want every single bolt to come in so I have to tailor my calling what is going to actually fit that bull so on the three sequences that I try to fall on throughout the year and again you know you're tweaking things and messing around with things from time to time but here's the three main ones I am relying on advertising sequence I'm relying on what I call challenging or full-tilt sequences means Bulls are extremely aggressive and the main one without question is the slow play sequence it's the slow play breeding sequence and that's the one that I got targeted for on outdoor or a film extreme when they heard this and how many elk were fall into it that they wanted me to put it in a magazine so they kind of did the articles and did this and that but it got pretty popular but I've tweaked it now since then this was like ten years ago when the first one came out and so now I have a fine tune as far as I'm concerned it's fine too because it pulls in just about 99 percent of the Bulls and I'm talking quiet Bulls I'm talking Bulls you might know are there or you heard when bugle that's it first thing in the morning maybe still dark and you heard a bull view about half a mile away and he won't say another thing now we all know those are the hardest Bulls to kill they're the hardest Bulls to pull in anybody can hunt the Bulls that are screaming everywhere I mean there's just talking and going and there's multiple balls you got hot cows going those I have I have a tactic for them too and we're going to talk about it but first I'm going to go into advertising and I'm going to discuss real quick the sounds that we're going to be talking about this evening we're going to be talking about a social cow sound we're going to be talking about a regather n' where cows Bulls any of them will use a sound to bring other elk their way they're asking them to come over by changing the tone then you have one where they're talking to them or asking them or gently demanding ly quit get here now come on we need to regather we need to get out of here and that's how L will do it on certain tones just like if one were to bark we're not talking - nervous grunt we're talking to bark with is a mountainside clearing vent and you hear that alkie you know you hear kind of girl you hero it and help do that and it does it repetitiously you're going to notice that it's a mountainside clearing event and they're gone there is no if ands or buts that's a very urgent tone and and so when you start realizing what some of those sounds will mean and again it's repetitious when it's a bark when it's a nervous grunt it's not it's a single note fashion so we're going to talk about that contact buzz that urgent tone regather in' and a social mute those are the cow sounds that we're going to concentrate on for bull sounds on any of those three I'm usually going to be using a locator type sound to find elk I will end up using a challenge I will end up using some glunk s' I'm going to be doing a lot of panting a lot of voice sounds when I'm doing the slow play and I'm just going to go through these and the point is that every one of these sounds represent a message or a condition that this elk is feeling the emotion just like when you hear a dog barking if you had your dog in the house and it's sitting or not and you're not pay attention to it there's a ghost and it's just staring at you is he mad is he gonna tear your leg off no there's nothing like that maybe he wants to feed you to feed him or throw toy or whatever but what if that dogs outside and you hear screaming like crate I'm gonna get your attention and you're like whoa I mean he's barking alright but now there's some real emotion behind it and he's like whoa you know I better go find out what's going on there's something out there cat and dog intruder I need to I need to check this out so you see how they change their emotion whether it's a bark or a wine or you're tugging on a toy or growling plan but outside he's he's brought him like crazy and bark at the same time you see how he changed it and he changes the message nobody has to tell you there's something wrong out there I need to go out there and check this out I don't have to tell you that you can hear it he's not telling you that but you hear his tone this is exactly what elk are doing with their bugles this is what cows are doing with their cows out so I started breaking all this down on what each sound was and start using it in sequences and guys we take a lot of actually the the the five of us we've 204 over-the-counter bulls in 29 years and all of us are using these types of sequences and so I mean we're way over what a hundred percent would be because we actually take more up than that so you know most guys when you look at stats if you're doing 10 percent in and over-the-counter unit you're doing pretty good and if you're doing 40 50 60 I mean that's way over so imagine being in that situation where you're you're up there in that ninety five to a hundred consistently you know you're having a good time what that does is it builds your confidence and what builds my confidence is understanding the sounds I don't need to see an elk at all all I have to do is hear it and if I have don't hear one and I see one moving in the timber and he's not making any sounds that bull is toast she's done I know exactly the sequence I'm going to use on let's say I go out next Friday and I will I'm gonna be out there what sequence am I going to set on right here am I gonna go into a full-tilt challenging situation is that where my mind is going to be set is it going to be on a slow play it is it going to be more in the advertising what does advertising mean advertising when you talk about advertising sounds are calling elk we talked about those sounds I just did but if you add rattling to it and you add raking to it beating the brush thrash and doing anything I consider all those elk sounds why because you're trying to use an attractant to lure them your way whether it's through a tone or whether it's raking or whatever the case may be and so those I consider elk sounds itself behavior but you produce you're trying to accomplish the same thing let's say you're going up on Friday and you have a camera set out or two or three or ever how many and you have elk hitting these water sources whether they're water holes or walls it really doesn't matter but there there's nothing concrete he they're not coming in like clockwork at this particular time or even every day they're like wow they're around yeah but there's nothing set in stone how would I treat that how would I try to call that bull VIN well I'll tell you when you get a bowl and he's using that area or a couple of bowls these Bulls know each other and they start leaving their scent around in that area that they're living or staying didn't pay the power bill what here why not I did why don't we just do that am i I can everybody hear me all right without that yeah I do kind of talk kind of loud and sometimes and sometimes I even get excited so you have to bear with me on that because a lot of these times I'm talking about these stories or sequence I actually can see in my mind how it's unraveling and all these elk I'd called me and trying I mean these aren't things where I'm saying hey this is theory and just give them a shot no these are the things we use every year so when I'm walking in I'm and I'm checking out a water source and I'm not gonna sit I just I'm not a sitter I want to call elk that is my passion it's my adrenaline rush in life I have the spot in stock Delk I've sat ambush them I've spot and stock like I say ambush trees man I hate it all I don't care for it because it's not enough action for me I need to do something to bring these elk in even though all those things are productive but see I don't I don't care about saying I just want to kill an elk I want to kill it my way I want to kill it where I'm getting the excitement and a64 I don't have a lot of those years left or I get that kind of excitement and so I want to keep doing it and so when I'm going out there I am trying to bring these elk in or you engage them so when I have seen these Bulls coming around and they're using this water source I know they're in the area and especially I look at the time of day why is that important because I know that after nine o'clock 9:30 those elk are in their bedding area so where is how long is an elk in the bedding area probably 85% of the day they're in their bedding area from around 9:00 9:30 and they don't start leaving that bedding area until maybe an hour around hour and a half before before dark so 85% of the day where are the elk they're near their bedding area I'm going to go where I have the captive audience so when I see those photos or the time on the camera saying this once at noon and this one's at 10:30 and this one's at 3:00 I know that waddles near the bed in there they can hear me they're within earshot maybe I don't know exactly where they're at but I don't care I know they're going to hear me and so what am I gonna do I'm gonna go and display in that area for him I am going to attract them I'm not gonna use a cow sound I couldn't care less about a cow's down the bowl cut doesn't care about a cow's down right now if they would they be around the cows but they really don't have any interest in them does this mean all Bulls down the line one half percent no but it's the majority a large majority they're still in a bachelor groups and some of those Bulls will be separate some are not but I'm going to attract that bull and how am I going to do it I'm going to get over there and I'm gonna get near the water I don't have to be on it I'm just gonna get in that vicinity and I'm gonna start raking and I'm gonna start thrashing and I'm gonna rake and I'm gonna rake some more and so I'm gonna display in his area most of these bulls that are hanging in these areas right now they have been marking those areas believe it or not they'll stay there for one week to three or four weeks until hunting pressure wolves or something pushes them out of there but see they're kind of territorial temporarily because elk move around they do not they're not like white tails and they're there the whole year no they might be here week ten days two weeks and then they're over here then they're over here maybe they don't get that to stay in that air very long because of honey pressure or wolves or lions bears whatever but the point is when you find him in that area this is their area and when you go in there and you start being another bone they don't know who you are it draws on your curiosity so what I do is I like to get in and start raking and I start thrashing and I'll get a little bit louder and then I'll just make some little noises when I'm in there and I know they can hear me and so I just kind of and I'll just start raking and then once in a while I'll just kind of hit him with a little bit of a bugle nothing monstrous I'm not I'm not trying to call him to me I'm just feeling my oats in this area and I'm right in their spa cloud of that mmm and I just hit right there and that's it I'm not calling anymore I'm pretty much done with it at that point and I go back to raking and I go to thrash it and I'll move around and I'll make all he's still the same little gutter and this is just a bowl kind of feeling his oats kind of like what Chris mentioned Bulls will get like that they start getting a little frisky they feel the oncoming of the rut the stages of the rut coming on their testosterone levels are starting to rise these Bulls are getting ready to breathe and so all I'm doing is playing on their curiosity there's a pool over there in their area and you cannot believe how many times I've done that and they come sneaking in they're not they don't hardly ever call back not at that time it's possible but very rare do they do they just start sneaking and sneaking in now if I get a bull to engage I may go ahead and pick up the tone of my bugle and play with him I'll listen to his emotion but so many times when I get there and I hardly know they're there I'm not looking for out I already know they're there I've seen them on the camera or I see the fresh sign around all again go into those sign those areas and that's how I will display by breaking and you don't have to do a lot of call it and forget the cow calls they don't care they really don't it's not the time to do it but by playing on that bull sound they're getting their pecking order down they're not going to know who you are by your rakin or by the one little bugle you gave and this is very important to elk preseason prereq they need to know where they are in the pecking order who's gonna be a herd bull and who isn't so that's one of my things I like to do I get very creative when I'm out there sometimes that's one of my aspects and a lot of times once I start hitting that buell like that and the raking and I'll go maybe 15 20 minutes and play with it I start grabbing the antlers I make him think another bull came in and he came in where this bull is and they start sparring and they're just timing and I just kick I hit it and I'll make all these little noises and I'll just keep breaking and thrash and hit and just hit I'll hear the thrashing just crack and you can't believe how I've heard elk just come running I killed a nice six point one day and that's what I was doing he came running I must have heard him from 300 yards nobody know nothing just hitting those antlers making him think something was going on over there but Bulls will come - this kind of thing now here's a nice thing what if nothing shows up gab heard anything listen well still over there the Bulls are still over they have a but you haven't bothered anything they're still there for the taking but I can tell you in most cases when the elk are in that area they come sneaking in they just come poppin and I also notice that when I do this a lot that they rarely ever come in downwind they they could they come right at you they're coming the shortest route I hardly ever have to worry about him coming from my backside they're coming in from my left or my right or in front of me but when I'm doing a little setup like this I'm making sure that a bull cannot get to a spot and see where the calling is coming from I immediately take that out of the equation I do not let him have that and that's how we take so many of these elk is is off I'm so low doing that he must count going to search mode and he must come to my range before he can see the source if you give him that luxury of 80 yards ninety a hundred because you want to see him coming that's three hangs up he'll hang up and one they're silent like that and you don't know that they just sit there and they stand and they're looking through the tree they know they should be seeing them and the next thing you don't know they're and you're moving your desert boots gone and so you have to remove that a lot of times these bulls have come in and you don't even know they ever showed up and they did and so make sure you get real tight cover if you look on the app and you go into the breeding call sequence and the advertising one on the app and a video I show you exactly how I set up I show you what the cover is like what I get behind what I use for raking thrashing you know everything about the setup because it's extremely important that's probably the number one reason that people lose elk every year that don't get the shot all the guy does he does that he does all the great calling he's drawn the bull but his setup is horrible and it cost him a shot so many times he's behind things he's he's too open he's in front of when he shouldn't be there situations when that does work but a lot of times it doesn't but that is what I like to do early season I'll even go into boogly and if I feel like man it's getting to be like the second and third so now I'm gonna go into an advertising sequence where I'm using a lot more bugling and I'm using that lonesome Charlie type of sound and so what that means is I'm bugling like this you guys I probably called in over a hundred and fifty Bulls doing that just those stupid little sounds and don't move this is what a bull will do when he goes into an area especially a new area a new bowling area and he'll advertise he'll just squeal around and we're talking early season here we're not talking about writing times and they will go on and on and on I've called as many as seven bulls in all in one little group daddy Nino was there and they just come walking in doop doop doop do it come right in my son ended up taking the lead one at about 15 yards and I was probably 35 yards behind him in this one instance but the point is is we've called in so many elk doing that early season when they're just they don't have any TVs or VCR there and no iPhone there were none of that stuff so when they're out there and they hear it and you just keep it going most of the time I'm doing that for 20 or 25 minutes I'm not doing this two or three you know minute and I'm rake and I'm just pong I'm not getting aggressive I'm just feeling my oats on them I'm yearning I'm feeling the urge is the rut and you know it's like horses getting frisky on on on rainy foggy mornings you know and this is what these elk will do and so I start using these things as it starts escalating as the as the time gets closer tour I think cows can start coming in but I don't use any cow sounds at that time now has anybody ever tried like that and had any success with it I want to know you know I'll tell you something my number one pet peeve is hunters don't call enough but the guys that don't hear do very much calling they say people call too much but really I don't I don't think I'd call to magic that read right there I used I will go through six of those in the month of September I'll completely trash them where I mouth they're done that's how much we call when we huntin all over the counter just like you guys do the point is is it brings elk in we killed nine bulls last year the five of us this is what we do we call we call we co to locate on a normal day outside of this really slow time once it hits the 6im bugling and I how often do I bugle I'll bugle from right here right right at my rig and I have not I don't have like one spot I mean we're hunting the entire although all the zones we're hunting everywhere I have over 40 spots that I can go to over the years of 107 States I go over I do the same thing in every state I don't change anything I am finding elk and Kris hunts different country than we do I seek out the timber I do not like open country I stay away from it because everybody wants to hunt it and I seem glass in the side-by-sides going everywhere I go for the timber if I see elk in the in the opening I don't say anything nothing I just watch him watch him once they get in the timber I own them that's where I got him right there and if they're not talking and maybe I'll get one or two bugles at them they're not talking I go straight to the slow play and the slow pay once I hit around the fifth or sixth I will use the slow play on bulls that are not aggressive a not aggressive bull means he doesn't have any hot cows has none but he still has cows but he doesn't mind leaving them I would say the last probably 15 to 20 bulls that we've taken I probably called in 15 to 16 of them with the slow play and I can't even tell you right now I'm trying to think and using the slow play there might have been one in the Bulls I've used it on lately that did not I did not get in and kill killed every one of them the slow play just kicks them but and why does the slow play work because I play on their instinct to breed that's what I do that's the bottom line there's no secret to it I play on a Bulls instinct to breed once they hit around that fifth sixth seventh day they are so ready to breed no hot cows I show them I have the hot cow that's what I do I show them I've got one right here when a cow is coming into estrus she doesn't make any sound nothing I know there's people that will tell you they make an ester scream and they make these stress lines bla bla bla bla in all the research I've done all the up we call all the all these things that happen to us I can promise you that cows make no sound at all when they're coming into heat nothing they could carry nothing out of the normal when you start hearing people talk about the extra screen or the estrus buzz and they've done no research what happens is these guys are basically out there in September parts of October and they hear that sound and immediately it's something unusual and that's the sound everybody's heard probably that's what a cow will do and she'll do in all kinds of different volumes and they hear it like oh man that cows coming into heat yeah right they're not I have tons of video this sound I can show him doing it January February March April May every month of the year there's no difference if that was a breeding sound what you hear it outside of the right I mean how could you come on they don't make that sound at that time just the bottom line the point is it's just another elk zone it's another sound that they make that sound was I told you we would talk about it's especially especially going to be using the slow play that is a sound that is an urgent or demanding sound Thank You Tyler are you Tyler oh man I thought that for sure so I wait a minute grab a drink here I think I need it anyway the slow play God you look like him I got a picture you and we're gonna go over the slow plate how it works why it it just hammers these bulls and especially the hardest bulls there are to cut to kill and call it to call in and kill when you're using the ingredients for this recipe and that's how I look at it there's ingredient when you're making a dish you know a lot of times are going to make a dish and their ladies part more than anybody can appreciate this there are certain parts of the ingredients that you have to put in and stir up before you add the next one you don't just go everything put in an expected gonna come out great there's just times that doesn't happen so this is how the slow play is you want to use the ingredients at the right time here's what I do I've heard a bull bugle I'm gonna give you an example everybody's been through this everybody has you hear a bull bugle or you see him walk in the timber either one it doesn't matter I do my best to get about 200 yards from him I could care less about being on top of them I'm gonna bring him all the way to me if I can get 150 I will but I'm not I don't really want to make my position known to him at this time and when I know because I know he's there whether by hearing where I saw him I'm not going to talk to him it's going to be me and a cow and I'm only going to talk to her now when a cow starts coming into heat only a bull will make specific sounds to show anything else if it's here is it that she's coming into estrus he won't be he'll he will have emotional tones undertones the way he displays for her for her for the he's in the presence of a hot cow that's what you look for when you hunt elk long enough you're gonna come in these situations you're gonna hear these Bulls that are around how it cows and they're making all these sounds and a lot of them I'm doing with my voice I'm low-keyed because I'm talking to her I'm not talking to something 150 300 yards away she's only right there see I'm talking to you guys right here that's the volume of my voice I don't need to yell and scream like I'm given a challenge type bugle know you guys are right there so I'm talking to her and I'm going to eventually get him to engage here's the very first thing I do I get over there I get a good set up I know he could come in once I get him engaged if I'm so low I'm gonna get him to engage and I know it he's going to end up googling this the system and as soon as I he does I'm going to listen for his advancement by his bugles getting closer or I can hear him walk and running and I'm already picking a spot up ahead I need to pick a spot up ahead that does not put me out of bow range of where I'm at right there because I've had him come sneaking in not downwind but just get around me and I want to make sure I can still have a shot from where I set up secondly because on my final thing I'm gonna give sounds from here and go up here 15 20 25 yards and not make another sound once I'm at the end of this and I've got it so what I'm trying to show you is I'm picking out my setup spot very carefully he doesn't even know I'm there so I can get up there and look around see I want to be here and then I'm gonna end up going here here wherever I think he's coming in from so I have all this and it only takes a minute it's nothing it's not like you're out there half an hour it's just boom boom boom boom and you've got everything planned out how it's going to happen so now I walk in there I get set up that's it I sit there two minutes I don't make a move and do it is he gonna answer no he could care less about me he knows there's no cows in heat in the area or else I'd be competitive building out there I would know there's nothing but I'm gonna change that I'm gonna show him I've got one so now I sit there for about two minutes I do it again after a couple minutes go by that's a bit I do it again I sit there don't do anything I get pretty comfortable I've done this so many times lots cuz I know he ain't gonna say anything hey lethargic lazy bed bugle if I heard anything at all from him I know he's up there a couple hundred yards and incidentally before I go to the next move I called nearly every single ball like this from up hill down to me I rarely try to get on each level with them I like to give them the feeling that they have the momentum if they have to come down you know and so and the wind is usually coming down because I'm killing these guys right when they get to the bedding area and that's where I kill every bull I kill them in their bedding area so I'm getting on the perimeter of it I make the - Cal call to sets now I introduce a bull after those two set I now bring a bull in that has come on the scene and I start raking and I start thrashing and I start raking and I rake a little bit more I start out light and I just start thrashing and I'm watching the whole time and listening rake a little bit more for this count I'm do a bull has coming in now is displaying for this cow don't you think I got that bull's attention you better believe it I've got his attention he's not moving he's not doing anything but I have his attention so that means any little sound I make after this I have him he is hearing it if I started out with those little sounds to begin with he may not have heard him but I've got his attention and so once I do that I start escalating it I'm going into the raking and that's when I start giving some more parents kind of a and I go through just a little sounds like that I'm showing my emotion my yearning might my treasure I found right here and I start raking and I start thrashing again and then I take my little tube it's my clunker and I isn't that really good sound you ever heard bulls gone that's what they say you can do this it don't sound the same this one is amazing why does the bull gone there's a reason why I bought goings most Bulls are gonna gunk in the presence of a cow especially a hot cows as a cow comes in the heat she admits an airborne chemical called a pheromone soda dogs they emit this and it gets into the air and it this is what brings a lot of these satellites around where the hurt is that has a hot cow where here's a bowl right there and it can feel the air so much it gets pungent and thick so to speak and they start tasting it and they start slapping their tongue against the roof of their mouth and that's the best explanation I've even talked to biologists that felt that way you know because I don't talk and tell you this but that's the best excellent explanation they have with it that this is the only time you hear it you don't hear it outside of that when they're walking around is doing it for nothing but you'll hear them do it when they're close to the cows in heat given that sound and so as I let him this bull know now I'm tasting the air I'm not only smelling I'm tasting I'm showing the excitement I'm pen those are the sounds I go through I'm not even talking to him nothing I'm talking to my cow and I started raking some more and I'm thrashing and now here's when the boy answers right here I had set him up I see this I can't tell you how many time the third set of cow silence when I start going it's just a little bit more whiny with it cuz the Bulls hooking her he's messing with her and you're thrashing I mean you're painting this picture in his mind's eye what's going on usually in that I've never had them hardly ever answered the bugle not until he answers the cow call first and now I'm waiting for him because as soon as I hit him with that third one as I've gone through that display and I'm painting that picture that this bull has a hot cow because if he had a hot cow that's the sounds he would be making right there and I listen for that stuff other Bulls listen for so now I have him convinced that I have a hot cow and now he gives me a short round up to the cow he's trying to call her over there and a bull depending on his emotion it changes okay it's like if you're talking to somebody and if you raise your voice oh wait he raised it a little bit more now he's yelling you see us people that's what help do the first sound he might go he's telling he's calling the Calvary that's all he's wanting he does he wants her and when he does I usually just go and he let him know I don't want him I don't go does none of this challenge bugle this Bulls not in that frame of mind there's no way I'm going to hammer him with a big lip ball and scream my head off and go pedal to metal it's not time I'm going to get there but it's not time so as soon as I give him that I now have to caulk the cow call him over when a cow has separation from other elk she will call them back as they're moving through the timber you'll hear him and it's just social but if when they're moving through if one gets separated especially junior or any of them from a century leave cow to a mom but you know it's a maternity type thing is they don't hear him where'd they go they're in the temple she doesn't see him so now she tries to call them back she changes her tone can she use the same sound same cow so how would that make any sense does a Boyle use the same sound for Kannada and his cows challenging warning inviting no he changes the tone the emotion of it that's what the cow does and here's this sound she'll use you'll hear her do that as she's raising a volume why it's like if you had your kid out there and he got separated hey Joey died out now all of a sudden Joey's not there you go Joey Joey no answer Joey you mean you're getting concerned where is he's not answering this that's what the elk are do it when they get separating they're trying to call them back they will raise their voice and change the emotion of the sound they make a sound like this and they'll reach out trying to call them you can start a little lower the point I'm just trying to show you the tone they'll start and they can slowly raise it and even lengthen it until they get a satisfying response or a visual that the elk is coming back so it's the same thing as if you're talking to if we told our wife hey come on over here you told your kid come on over here you told a co-worker you're seeing the same thing that's what I do to the bull I now call him over for the cows oh so now I'm making the cow called the bull she's choosing the bull not the one she's with she is inviting this bowl over and though I usually hit her with three or four sounds and when I do the bull usually hits me right back I mean immediately to call this cow and when he does I'm waiting for him I'm still raking I'm still doing it she hits it out of nowhere and now I cut him off with a little bit more of emotion more of it letting him know I wouldn't appreciate that at all now you've heard people talk about lip balls you have to understand when an elk uses an elk sound he can elevate his game or his emotion a lip ball when a bull uses a lip ball that is the top limit of the emotion that he can go to he there's no other there's no other height he's at the top and so when you hear him give a tone like this then he raises the tone or he saw when she gets louder you can see his emotion change for the situation at hand so now I'm waiting it on lip ball will end up coming once I get this bolt to engage I usually will now hear at least 10 to 15 bugles as that bull starts coming in he starts coming in because now as he starts doing this I I throw him another curve I have the cow demand him to come over and so that's when I hit this is just telling that ball to get over there she wants him to come and when I do that the bull usually just he's done he's going absolutely bananas I'm gonna have to cut him off several times I take over the situation I no longer let him call and me answer him I now switch roles I make him answer me every time and once I make him answer me I put him on the defense so now we're going back and forth and usually the final sound he hears from me as he's coming because sometimes he'll stop at that 6070 yard and he's calling as I hit him with them that's the end of it right there that is the when a bull makes a sound like that that's like the lot the the lines run in the sand don't you dare come across that right there I mean this is how this is their game their threat to each other and more times than not he can answer what that but here he comes he's right there on top of me and guys we call bull after bull after Bowl after bowl even sidelights will come in like that but we get them to engage they do not sneak in they all engage so when you can get those quiet bulls like that I've done it with herd bulls that never made a sound I just saw him going to the timber I try to get within to 200 yards they'll leave their cows to come over to check out this hot one why they don't have a cow in estrus they don't care about leaving them it's not a problem nothing's gonna come bother them there's not even a bull bugle in them it's because there's no cows in heat and so when I plant that seed here's what I have here you're still showing some photos up there do you see all these elk that we've been putting down that's how we're getting on kill on a ton of them there with the slope lay there with the raking early-season or the or the or the advertising now when I come on a hot bowl where a bull is already aggressive and I can hear the cows and I can hear him screaming perfect example of that was the bowl I called in from my son last year I actually give you the exact account and pretty much the exact account I won't start in the beginning of it but what happened was we were got out of the rig and we could hear cows calling up the hill right off wrote over-the-counter just happen to be one of those morning was raining hardly anybody wanted to go out we get out of the truck and I can hear cows calling just they're out there you could hear him and they're way up the hill I don't know where they were when we finally started up after but I'm gonna say 250 300 and I could hear him going up I've hunted this area before sick sick sick stuff and as they went up I thought I told my son but we gotta get up there and it's there's no trail there's nowhere there's no nothing there it's just tons of downfall thick underbrush just really dark stuff and as we started going up there a bull bugles and he's people in those cows because I hadn't bugles and he's building the cows to come on up and for some reason they were all below him for whatever the reason really didn't matter to me but I could tell he was trying to pull him up we got up there to what I thought we were around 300 yards from him and I know I could call him him from 300 yards if I did the right thing I could call him in and so I got up there we set up real quick I'd already killed the bull so it was my son's turn and I immediately hit a bugle just to see where he was and I kind of hit him with no location bugle here's my location bugle just so you can see what the difference is that's what I do that's how I locate Bulls and I will move around until I finally find one well as you can see that was not how that other one was it was had a little more motion behind it and what I basically was doing it can it can it can redirect the cows is what I was doing which irritates the bull so no I didn't use a hurting type sound in libel I don't need to get to that yet right now I was just trying to make contact let the cows know there's another bull right there they might be interested in of course I knew they weren't gonna come but it was to light him up and when I did I realized oh that Bulls up a lot higher than I thought it was so we ran up a second one again this is an aggressive situation we run up because he was further away than I thought we get up to a couple more benches up and I mean it's like this we're going straight up as we get to the second bench we set up do it again I'll be staying that balls still farther than I thought he was so we get up there on a third setup like oh I heard the bull bugle he and I can still here the cows they're still between us so I get up on the 3rd set up and I now I call the cows so now I'm kind of giving it I'm not getting too aggressive but so I just give just a nice mild little lip ball which is directed to the cows more than anything I want them to come over here well of course I know they're not going to but the bull did not like that he immediately hammered me instantly and I cut him off well before you know it I started raking ice my son was sitting on a bench like this I was just on the lower side 15 yards under him breaking a tall willow I'm just thrashing freaking I'm just hitting this thing with the antlers he's just smashing smashing smashing and I've throw out another bugle he answers I go over the top of it hit him with a second one and here he comes all you can hear is a bull coming this bull came in so fast on that third setup he was at 50 45 40 35 30 25 20 15 10 5 yards right on my son run in full blast and I'm just over the edge and I see my son like this like this like this you know and I'm like what is going on and he told me well all of a sudden I hear course I heard the arrow and I start screaming 3 or 4 time unit is hammered trying to slow him down I start bugling bugle and bugle and he's just standing there looking the other way and so I go up there and he I start what I do is I look at him he turns around and I literally his eyeballs were as big as silver dollars and he's just staring at me like in disbelief and he's not a little kid my kid he's 41 right now and he's just staring at me and I start walking up like wow I mean you miss him what he says daddy says you ain't gonna believe it that bull was literally coming right at me to run me over he wasn't even running down the side he was coming to impale you there was no messing around and I don't know some of you you know that where's the Bulls that's him right there that's a really nice over-the-counter bull isn't it and that's the bull right there and anyway as he came out and he said I saw him at 30 he and my son shoots like me he has three pins we got 20 30 40 and he said my pins Ridge is dancing on him and it was just he's gonna stop when he second he's gonna stop and he says when he hit five yards it was just he said I let him have it right there which I think that's the eighth bull he's killed with the frontal he know what he's doing he's know you know he's not a little kid that was just twenty ninth mole and he hit the ball right there and so I wonder if I what happened was and he goes and he's looking and I mean from here to that lady that Bulls laying there dead right there didn't move I mean he went over there he quivered a little bit and down he went actually shooting with an iron will broad head you guys might have heard of those that came out with him company that's what he shot him with I was shooting the same head but anyway we want to try them out but he hit that bull right there that is a fast action you don't need a slow player you don't need a advertising sequence you see none of that's necessary for a bull that's fully aggressive and and and if I wanted to I knew he was aggressive when I got a bull at the hot cow a lot of times I I might change it up a little bit because they're not all screamers like that well they're just cutting you often going like crazy there sometimes I gotta get a bowl worked up because he has a cow coming into heat but she's not ready to be bred she's just showing signs and I so what I need to do is I need to get in there and I like giving that hundred hundred 25-yard mark maybe there's a couple sidelight tourism and I call the cow from him now here's what a sad light does when she tries to cut he tries to call the cow away again I've watched him do this I don't know how many times these satellites get in and they start Cal calling her and what they do is they Cal call her and hit her with the roundup instantly no hesitation there's no question that that sound is coming from that bull and you'll hear them kind of giveth and that's what he'll do all in one motion and when you do that don't you think you get that herd bulls attention right there because what is the herd bull thing who are you talking to he knows you're talking to that cow and no question is mine you've directed that emotion that responds to that cow and I know he's gonna call and as soon as he bugles over me I cut him off and now I try to call the GAO again I'm not interested in him I'm not looking for a fight I'm trying to get that cattle out of there and why is it because I know there's a hot cow I can tell why the satellites her being you know harassing him and what are they doing they're trying to call the cow out of there so when you have multiple Bulls harassing a herd bull are they trying to fight the herd bull no trying to fight the her bowl they walk in there and and challenging they stay back and tried to call the hot cow out and they do this because how do they know which cow's hot there could be six seven there could be 22 of them you think she's wearing a t-shirt that says I'm the hot cow he doesn't know so they try to call her out guys that's what they do they smell the pheromones in the air and they get so excited they have the same urges as the herd bull does and so they sit back advertising them you'll hear these Bulls going nuts and they're staying back and they're trying to call the cow out of there they're trying to to show that they're a possible breeder bull and they go on and on but what I do is I get inside of those satellites I try to get inside them as long as the wind and the cover is there and then I immediately take my call and call the cow and when I do it's absolutely magical if I walked in now there are Bulls where I can just scream like the one I call for my son he was that frame of mind but when I get those and I'm a little bit less cautious he's not quite there he's not giving me the emotion I'm looking for for a bull that's on full tilt or full sin I need to work him up to that and now I'm gonna hammer him I may give him that nervous grunt and that one sting that one hard hard challenge at the end right one at the time is right again it's those ingredients use the ingredients but use them proportionally at the right time so those are the little things that we're doing yeah and I'm raking and I'm thrashing as I'm trying to call that cow why because I'm displaying for her I'm not trying to challenge the bowl with the raking I am trying to draw the cow over there's been many a times as I change gears here really quick many of bulls that I killed I've killed several really nice six points will along though I've had the bull call me to him and what this means is I've got the bull going but I know he asked cows he must have something coming in and again it's pure speculation on my part because you just can't tell what every little situation is all you can go on is what they're tossing you what they're saying with their with their action is and when I have a bull when I give them a Cal call a lot of times you have a bull just light up then you have you then you can throw a bugle out there and what happened here and say it's nothing there's days like that there's days you're gonna give a bugle and he goes nuts you give Cal calls nothing you can't get him to do a thing remember that when he gives a Cal call when I'm giving the Cal call and he calls to me I know that every time a bull responds to a Cal call he's calling the cow to him that's what he's doing he's given a direction to get over there come on over and so in time if that cow doesn't come the bull will raise his aggression or raise his emotion trying to call the cow he will even get to a challenge bugle and a lot of guys are like no way Bulls don't challenge cows well what they don't understand is Bulls don't look at it like that it's an emotional tone it's an emotional sound to them just like a cow sound is to a cow they change the cadence to change the meaning or the message so a bull doesn't look at a lip ball as a lip ball he looks at as a tone or our sense of emotion for his frame of mind for the situation he's in and so will a bull challenge a hot cow or any cow well of course he does it's just a change of emotion to him he's pissed because that cows not coming as he's asked her to for the last 10 minutes if you sit there and keep hanging up the bull is not hanging up you the hunters hanging up he's told you to come over years don't know it if you don't go to him because he's not coming you got your chance it'll anchor so now when a cow accepts to invite this is a different sound I forgot I didn't know I was gonna get there but I'm going to am I talking too long huh but this is a sound that a cow will use when she accepts the invite and here's Howard those Bulls with long bow and I mean I'm getting close I've killed him at 14 17 just under 20 and they and they start raking and what I was getting that from the raking that I was doing for the herd bull as I was trying to call the cow is when a bull is calling a cow as he invites her and she accepts the invite he starts raking and displaying for her why he's showing off for it's like a guy going out to a bar semi splashing aftershave and shaving and make him clean himself up that's his way of trying to you know tract opposite-sex at times well I can't a bull doesn't do today he kind of little different he pees all over himself and he's screaming and he's breaking and he smells like crap out there and they really do you guys know you've killed L coming there and they're not the best fragrance out there but the point is is it's an attractant and so when he starts raking and as I'm coming in I make this sound right here and it's because I've called so many cows in with the bugle and here's the sound they make when they're coming into me some are silent but a lot of them are like this you ever heard cows do that so it is the strangest thing you're only going to hear it when they're accepting something and they're excited and they go right at it this is not a social thing that you're going to hear all the time but over the years I've bugle in a lot of cows and you're going to do that when you call for almost 40 years doing that you know between rifle and bow honey you're gonna hear a lot of stuff especially when you're out there constantly and when I first heard that it was probably 25 years ago and I've used that many times now I'm not saying if you give normal cow sound and you go at the bolt that'll never work that's not what I'm saying but what I am saying is I love using that same sound they're using on me when they're coming right at me the first time had ever happened I thought it was a hunter I honestly did I mean it was so off the wall and something I had never heard like that that I thought a hunter was coming in and then I kept hearing more and more and more well that first occasion I'll never forget it was six cows and they were all hammering away and they all ran probably within 15 to 20 yards from me so I had their tongues hanging out there running so far but I could hear them coming and I'm you know even though I thought it was a hundred because I never heard the sound I just as they closed the distance there was no question about it now I'm seeing them but I used that sound ever since on certain situations yeah there's years go by you never use it but when it's time for it oh yeah I'll use that thing I have actually used that for over 300 yards it took me over 20 minutes to get to the brush through it it was so thick it was just tearing at me and I'm just hitting that sound and I stopped for 15-20 seconds I'm trying to crawl get through it and the bull is just screaming and going and going and I'm making my way making my way I mean almost 20 minutes it took me and he never moved an inch not one inch he waited for that cow to come all the way to him and in most cases you're gonna find the ball once you get to that forty fifty I that's when I knock in there I'd never knock an arrow as I'm running I just don't do it I just don't think it's smart so I don't I would never recommend it I don't care if something pops up in between you and then let him go you know elk isn't worth your life out there and so right about that distance that's when I knock an arrow I make sure I'm am looking for other elk I've been busted so many times try it you know you get tunnel vision sometimes because you hear them here here I mean then I'll son there's a count of spike right there you didn't even see them I mean feet away from you and they're just standing there with you stare you think they had a run already but no they stay right there and until they bust out of there and then everything goes to heck there and you lose him but the point is is that you go ahead and listen to him rate but I've killed enough bulls or they'll let you come that you're doing what they're asking they're asking that cow to come and join him and so boom I've taken the invitation accepting it calling my way right to them and you cannot believe how they'll just stay right there I couldn't remember the last six point I killed I got up there and he was probably I I mean I could hear him bugle II and I caught up into a tree there's a fir tree where all the limbs are coming down and I get right in it and I don't wear any face paint I don't Pam I don't wear anything I'm just camo de and I got right in the limbs and I've got my long bow I've got an arrow and I've stared him like he's just right there I know he's I mean sound like he was 20 yards away and the hill went like this it's just like that and down there was this big log and I mean this log was this high about 35 yards and I am looking through the tree I mean I just know he's right there and I happened to look over the log and all I see is his eyes nose his ears and his rack Sixpoint and he's just staring just like that right at me and but I'm looking through all these limbs coming down I didn't expose myself and I'm like oh no way right and now I'm sitting here it was a standoff I'm sitting there I'm not making a sound I'm not making a move I'm doing nothing I'm just staring at him he's staring at me all of a sudden he jumps the log and he starts coming up the hill know what I mean how many times that happened seriously he jumps a log and he starts walking up and he's coming come he gets up and he's now he's up on my same level and I'm next to this tree really tight and I'm like I have no shot I have nothing these limbs are out like this and I was trying to stay covered because I didn't know where he was and I'm sitting there and I don't know if he could hear my heartbeat or not but I don't even know if I took a breath I'm not kidding you I am just sitting there locked on him I'm not trying to move in this bull twenty yards and I see a big downfall between us there's a lot of crap and to my right is a granite piece of stone and it's probably really close to this high and it kind of sloped and I was like just get to that rock I need to get up to that rock cuz I need to get it and look over some of this stuff there's crap everywhere he walks he stops at 17 yards and when he does he's looking the other way there's a limb coming right through here right by his side and I'm like I can't take that child I want to draw so cuz you know long ago you shoot fast I mean you're just it's gone there's no pens there's no nothing and it's like I can't take it I can't take it if I take that shot and I hit that limb you know yeah it's not a compound where I'm 2 inches left 2 inches right he's dead that's different with at least for me it is I couldn't take the shot so he stood there he's not even looking at me he's just looking away he turns and he walks to an aspen tree he's maybe 22 yards and he starts breaking it and he's rake and he's thrashing Rican he's digging it with his brow tines and I'm watching I'm like that's my chance to get on my rock so I get up on that rock man I'm sitting there I shoot three fingers under with the tab and I'm sitting just like this wait and wait and wait I've seen come on whatever you do you got to come back to the right if you go to the left I got nothing and I'm talking three feet to the left I got nothing he'll walk out of my life I'm like please come back to the right yeah I just you go through these things you just do you know you're nuts out there and you're just sitting there waiting and all of a sudden after about 30 seconds he stops he turns and he faces me and he's standing I'm gonna say maybe 20 22 yards roughly and he just screams a bugle he screams around up he wants that cow I mean just hammers it and I mean I'm just like I mean it's almost like a fan came in my face it really didn't but you envisioned it like that I mean he's so close and when he screams he thought he just settles down and he turns and he's walking at me and he decides he's gonna go back the way he came which was what I need him to do and as soon as he hit that one spot were the little opening all I did was just go with my mouth I didn't have her I guess we're just like that and I drew and he stopped and when I did the arrow went right through his heart and I watched him run over the edge I looked over the edge and he was laying there piled up it's about 60 yards away stone dead but what a deal and I he called me to him that particular bull but that is exactly what took place of everything worked out got a little lucky God behind the tree jumped on the rock didn't see me jump on the rock but you never know you know some of the situations that you're gonna be in but if I would have never took the initiative to go after that bull and calc all my way to him I'd I never got that bull he would have just left and he would have been out of there over the counter I probably killed him a mile off a road he's probably in call - who knows how many times that's how you kill a bull that has been harassed many times when you get on a bull and your bugle aneema and you're going through all your cow calls and your bugles and everything and he won't come because he's been he's suspicious he's hearing something out of the ordinary that he knows isn't one that's living in the area but many times when you go to the cow call any answers go to him that's about your only chance and he'll wait for you he has been busted by that but if you try to be able to set up he's gonna hang up hang up hang up and the next you know his vehicles are more distant more distant more distant but go at him I showed that to a buddy of mine he came into camp he was in an issue where he had built bulls like that I told him I said the next time you go - he went out in the morning he said I told my said the next time you get in that situation he was 40 yards from a bull that was so thick but he never thought oh he'll call and just walk in on him and I said dude he goes this guy sounds like a dinosaur out there and I said just go at him I said Cal call you wait and go right at him he had have shooting that ball ten yards he was three hundred and sixty inches over the counter I've never killed a three hundred sixty inch bull and he's in the same area as me I mean you just never know what can happen but you see it's just some of those little things that if you don't take the initiative and the aggressive action in most cases I'm calling these Bulls to me but there are times you know I'll share one more thing and then I'll stop one of the things that a lot of hunters ask me I get I get hundreds and hundreds of calls and emails pm's they said what do you do when you have a bull and he is screaming and he's you know he wants to die he he really does it mean this guy is ripe and but you got sad lights all around you there in the front you there may be hanging around each side you got cows right there between you and that's the way the winds coming what do you do with that bull well I have a little trick for that bull as a matter of fact I've used it before and we killed a really nice bull I've used it more than once but here's what I do when that happens and I'm slipping in and I'm sleeping in because he's so vocal I don't need to say anything yet I can just slip in and I'm getting in like a couple hundred yards and all of a sudden I see these other rail coming so what I do is I get back to I crawl back to about 400 yards it works slick as soon as I get there I start bugling my way to him about every 50 yards I just sit there 50-yard dude again how many times have we ever bugles our way to a bull and he stands right there and you can go put in our own like never if you Bureau your way to a bull nine times out of ten he just keeps that distance between you he keeps pushing pushing pushing he doesn't just stand right there I found this out quite a few years ago if I get back and bugle him the cows that the the side like to everything they don't run off they just kind of pushed to the side they get back because they don't want to tolerate it and it gives me that corridor that opening I can get into that bowl and now I can try to cause hot cow wake is so aggressive and that's usually what I'll do with that boy I will not go in there and just start screaming at him I usually will try to attempt to call the cow away with a couple of cow sounds they little roundup and I'm ready for him I know what he's going to do as soon as I do that and in just Bam Bam Bam but my point is it's clearing the path that's how it clear in the past I don't calcio my way in i bugle my way in about every 50 70 yards and you'll notice those Bulls just go in they want nothing to do with you and they part but just a herd bull ride no why doesn't he he's got three other bulls have been harassing two hours you think one more and make him run you know they'd stay here right there and they paced back and forth back and forth he's got the hot cow there and the other ones aren't hot they're just part of the herd but my point is it's just I tactic a little trick that you can use sometimes when you just can't do anything else you can't just bulrush him and hope they stay there and watch everything go blown out of there I got a bunch of tactics for that too but but anyway I will go ahead and end it right there do you want Question and Answer or no it's too late or I mean I don't know if anybody has any questions but what okay yeah if you guys have anybody hey thanks a lot coming I appreciate it man a lot guys thank you

Channel: Got Game Technologies

Views: 227,621

Keywords: elk, elk bugle, elk calling, elk sounds, cow calls, elk hunting, archery elk, hunting

Id: -DGE_sJ4dpE

Length: 63min 7sec (3787 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 28 2019