EFF Podcast Episode 34 | Adv Dali Mpofu speaks on “GNU”.

stand up South Africa make sure that South Africa you are counted with me South Africa stand and make sure that our people understand that they need to be revolution in South Africa is guaranteed that under the E this country will be the better e is what others describe as outlandish uh cabinet demand they're demanding the position of the Deputy president and 11 uh ministerial positions would you say the same Advocate no uh ironically I do not think that uh their demands are outlandish uh because the ANC has decided to go to bed with them in order to survive so they are in a position to ask for anything um they could have even asked for 20 cabinet posts I'm sure they would get them because the NC is trapped by its funders to accept the da deal and this could could this be some of the reasons why to this day we haven't heard of any cabinet um you know appointment or announcement of the new cabinet is it that the ANC is currently trapped and it is unable to um make a clear or you know sober decision yes well the NC is trapped has trapped itself basically into the deal the sellout deal with the da and um so now they have concerns because the population is reacting negatively to it and I think even the its own membership is uh reacting negatively so they have to try that's why they made this announcement that over the weekend they'll be going around to consult the structures because they can feel that there are ractions within the structures of the ANC manyc people that I've spoken for have even suggested that there should be an early conference um you know because they are so cross with this deal and uh if I was uh in the ANC I would support that because this leadership has clearly sold out I think the average voter who voted for the ANC mhm the last thing they had in mind was that they are voting for The Return of a parted of a deal uh with the da and freedom front M um and therefore the NC is really miscalculated politically I will explain how what a polit it's political suicide what they've uh entered into the eff is part of the progressive uh ccus and we have seen the parties like uh Pac udm and aljama jumping ship what do you make of that well you know it has to be expected because the anc's approach has been to try and use other parties to in order to uh fix its negotiations with the da M remember this is nothing else but a coalition between the ANC and the da what we call it's a wedding yeah or marage between them the others just bridesmaids they are guests in the at the wedding so they've invited other guests at their at their wedding of thec and the da and um you know some of the guests uh might come because they want uh to have a piece of the cake or some of the meat you know guests at a wedding come for different reasons but um I think in terms of the numerical strength of the parties in Parliament um it's clear I mean the parties that have one or two seats are not going to be any significant players they just brought there as I say for the for the Aesthetics you know so that you can say now we have 10 parties but if those 10 parties between them have um nine seats in in in the National Assembly MH that obviously is not that significant it it is um disappointing of course because um the solution to all this is a United block of serious opposition action and challenge against uh this sellout deal so it's obviously a Pity even if you lose one person with one seat uh to the other side but that's the nature of the struggle there'll always be people who are um with you and those who are not with you at particular times we don't need to condemn them I think and uh but it's our duty as revolutionaries to win them back and convince them about the correctness of our position because our position is 100% correct and history will vindicate it the position of the DAC Coalition is backward and uh history will show that too do you foresee the mkp joining the progressive um ccus yes uh the MK party has already declared I think uh through their parliamentary leader um uh judge I know he prefers to be called Dr I call him judge judge that they would align themselves with organiz he specifically mentioned the E ATM and other Dependable forces of the left all right let's get the ball rolling thank you very much ladies and gentlemen the people of South Africa Africa and the world for tuning in my name is Titus we're coming to you from Mandela house here in Johannesburg and today we are joined by Advocate thank you very much for coming through welcome good to be back Titus indeed and now you're back at the very critical time when as the nation politically there's so much political in and not instability but uncertainty right and uh the seventh Administration seems to have been met with so much delays when it comes to the configuration of um cabinet or new government if you like now just give us the Constitutional knowhow if you can just explain to us U what are some of the Constitutional requirements uh when we look at what happens post elections in terms of um you know Constitution or configuration of government yeah well I'll give you both the con itional analysis and also the political one yeah constitutionally uh as you know that the constitution prescribes that after an election 14 days after after the an election result has been pronounced um then the first seting of parliament must happen that is why the first seting of parliament set on the 14th of uh of June MH where the office Paras and the president were were elected um thereafter there is no constitutional deadline for the president to constitute a government but obviously he must do so within a reasonable time MH uh because we are in a situation which is uh unsavory at the moment because all the executive power is now resting with one person the the president mhm and um in Kang it's resting with the premier because the both have not um announced their their cabinets MH but um so that's the situation as far as the the uh Constitution requires MH but what we're in now is a is a a political crisis rather than a constitutional one in that the reason why for the first time uh the cabinet is normally announced within 48 hours or so I think in 2019 it was an exception it was after 2 or 3 days but um the reason why there's a crisis now is because the ANC lost the elections badly you know and that's a reality which I think they have not yet uh uh understood that they've actually lost the election in a bad way I mean in the the recalculation that has been done is now that they had 39% mhm but whether it's 39% or 40% that's a it's a massacre and that's really the reality now the NC wants us to believe through propaganda that they are still in charge but they're not the people who are in charge now is the da and that's to believe yes hard to believe yeah and and that is through the making of the ANC which has taken the power political power and the trust of the people back to uh forces that represent a parted such as the da and the freedom front mhm and um I can assure you more than half of the people who voted for thec never dreamed that that is what they were voting for that they were voting for The Return of the uh of power to to to to the DA and freedom front forces that still represent people who were captains of aparted I'm not talking about you know a generation I'm talking about people who were participants and who voted for apartate uh several times uh and um you know uh the national party that brutally murdered our people all those people were torturing people and killing detainees uh are now uh being given power back by by the NC so that's the crisis and the political crisis is that the NC knows that this is a sellout position and it it can not even be bought by its own constituency and voters MH and the most important thing is that this deal is not about thec you see that's the issue okay this deal is about Raposa the da made it clear two years before the election that it would it was prepared to work for uh or with the ANC Raposa ANC M they actually use that term Rosa's ANC people think that that term came from uh former president Jacob zom it actually came from Helen Zill MH cuz she was saying we can work with Rosa's ANC that's why before they even had a deal the first thing they did was to vote for Raposa as the president cuz they wanted to have a guarantee not have a deal and then the next thing you put somebody else there and um the the very basis of the deal will will have been undermined MH so if I was a member of the ANC I would be con about that because Raposa is in his last term both in thec and in the in the government and anything can happen U God forbid if he's hit by the proverbial bus tomorrow it means that um the deal the the basis the fundamental basis of the deal which is surrounded by a a single individual will fall apart I'm quite sure if something like that happened if R said tomorrow I'm resigning or whatever mhm then the da would pull out of the of the deal so you can't have a political solution that is centered around one person who is uh the ding of of the so-called markets or ding of big business and the funders and the daring of the forces that represent apartate so that deal is going to collapse it is fragile it is senseless it is politically bankrupt and it is actually it doesn't make sense for anyone who who really cares about the ANC yeah and da just prior the elections they've been against the effc Coalition yes and they've been pushing what they termed multi- party and the Moon the Moon packed but now one wonders why are they abandoning their very own and choosing thec which they said they wouldn't in fact advocate for the effc coalition but now they're forming this Coalition as if it's a you know it's a smokees screen as it comes as an a GNU but it actually a coalition between thec and the da why do you think the DA has abandoned its uh Moon moonshot pack now that's a very good question firstly the there's the the whole moonshot packed thing was just a gimmick it was a gimmick to scare the right wing about the so-call Doomsday um uh Coalition between the eff uh and thec MH and then once MK was announced the Doomsday Coalition now has expanded Toc e and MK in other words black people soar you must just be scared of any uh getting together of black people so that was used it worked for the da because the da remember had lost four seats in the previous election to the right wing to the ultra right racist AF Forum type of of of people your freedom front Freedom front plusia so that SC tactic worked because the the something that the media doesn't tell you that the da in this election regained those four seats from the the freedom front plus had 10 seats it now has six so the da by using thear tactics regained the those forets M having regained those faets it then changed tune and then say all of a sudden the ANC is no longer part of toesday now it's hugs and kisses yeah and uh so that was always part of of of the plan so if you unpack and analyze the situation all that has happened now is that the ANC has joined the moonshot packed in essence in essence which was the the the plan the the original plan um so all this they were Hood winking uh you know trying to consolidate their base so that then they take the right-wing base into into the rightwing of thec and then consolidate which is what has happened but let me tell you the the stupidity political stupidity of that decision on the part of the ANC MH now the ANC has since the formation of the eff the ANC has lost electorally has been in permanent decline right it it is because the eff was assaulting body blows literally onto the ANC over the past 10 years MH as we speak now the ANC in the last local government election I think only won two metros mhm so the eban base and the young voters base has been it eaten Away by the by the eff mhm and now what happened with the introduction of the MK party is that they also lost heavily even the rural base and uh also some of the urban base and therefore they're losing out to what is considered in ANC terms to be their left uh forces the radical forces representing economic freedom In Our Lifetime or radical economic transformation yeah now here the stupidity yeah now look think about yourself mhm if you are in a car accident or whatever and then you you've lost your left arm and it's broken it's bleeding MH but you go and put the plaster of Paris on the right hand side which is fine that's what they're doing yeah instead of trying to close the left where they have been bleeding for 10 years they are going to consolidate with the right wing but the DA has got nothing no influence whatsoever on thec constituency the DA has been hovering around the same 20% Mark uh which is the its saturation point so forget about the the the sellout issue just at a selfish political level why would you then go and close the flank that is unaffected but leave where you are most vulnerable open because what is going to happen is that some if there are still any any revolutionaries in the ANC they will obviously gravitate now towards uh the progressive uh side because they can no longer stand uh you know being associated with the forces of apartate and so will the electorate so I my prediction is that the NC in the 2026 local government elections is probably going to be in about a 20% party because it's going to lose even the 40% of the people that they deceived into voting for them now by shouting revolutionary slogans empti revolutionary slans and Advocate the most talked about now post elections it's something called the gnu the government of national unity and you have been there in 1994 you witnessed the gnu at the time yes when you analyze the current uh so-called gnu what are the legal Pro are there political and legal processes if any what are those processes and would you say these processes have been followed to the latter because now we almost at a crossroad there's gnu but now 7 days later there's no cabinet we don't know who raos is Consulting but now what is the process of for in a GNU and would you say that process has been followed no it has not been followed I think that's very important for to communicate to our constituency uh to all the fighters out there and to South Africans and the World At Large the first message is that there is no government of national unity in South Africa it's a a gimmick it's a trick there's no government of national Unity either politically legally or even logically there is no such thing the socalled gnu was a trick used by the ANC it's a term that came from the national executive committee meeting um which was held in boxb MH when they could not sell the DC deal then they just decided to call it uh gnu there is a technical definition of what a government of national Unity is and U some of the key features of a government of national Unity are that it's a a combination of political parties uh of which make up about 90% of the electorate um sometimes 85% but not less than that MH so that first part of that definition cannot be met because um the forces of change the progressive forces in South Africa now command more than 25% so this uh uh Coalition whatever it doesn't matter how many parties they put in will never be above 70 75% MH so it fails the first test of what a government of national Unity is the second test is that a government of national Unity is uh put into place when there's been a national crisis whether it's a war or in our case 1994 apartate the devastation of apartate or any other National Calamity in other words a Calamity that affects all of us whether you are a Christian or a Jew or whatever as a nation that's why it's called National Unity so the nation then unites in After Japan when they were bombed by the Americans they had to unite around um around this I think even the Israelis did that when they they they are um uh genocidal War started now they put they put together what they call the war cabinet because they saw it as a national crisis MH so that's what is required now you must ask so that's the second test that they fail what is the national crisis that has happened now elections results no how can but that's that's a crisis of the ANC the ANC has lost elections to 40% I accept that it's a crisis for them but how can a crisis of of one political party be called a national crisis it's not a national crisis actually we celebrating uh some of us yeah so if if they lost if they are at 40% it means 60% of the nation is celebrating so it's a crisis just for them not for not not for the nation MH the other crisis uh is the crisis of The Da the crisis of The Da is that it wants to return apartate and it wants uh to fight anybody who talks about the land and um and and equality again that's not a national crisis that's a crisis of of 7% of the population uh to to the extent that they feel threatened by by equality and justice MH so and then the the third problem is that these parties there's no common agenda so these ones have a crisis of losing an election these ones of a crisis of uh hating black people so what is it that they are uniting on so if you take the words government of national Unity as three parts yes it's a government that they're going to form we can grant them that but National there's no National crisis Unity there's no Unity so it's not a government of national Unity it's a a marriage of convenience between two dying forces now I was saying to somebody the other day you know what you have here we cannot be threatened and they think we're threatened by this thing M you can't be threatened by two dead bodies because the the DA's constituency and philosophy died in 1994 of apartate and the anc's uh neoliberal uh Outlook and selling out died now in 2024 MH so when you have two dead bodies you don't have a a crisis you have aary MH and ours Advocate is a generational uh mission that is why we we remain Resolute in our position that we're not going to join the gnu H we're remaining in the Progressive left and and thanks to the ATM as well that is remaining Resolute because these are the parties that represents the interest of uh the black majority the marginalized in South Africa now looking at the status quo these parties that have decided to jump ship from the progressive cocas and now join the gnu what's there for them what are they gunning for will the two because you're saying that um this is a marriage between thec and the da what is there for the other eight political parties that are signatory to the gnu well there's nothing in there for them except maybe position or well the political um answer that they give is that they want to influence uh uh government but you can't influence government and governance amidst a a sellout position I mean that was the same position that was taken by Homeland leaders in the uh 60s and 70s they said when we said we're not participating in structures that are meant for our own destruction they said well don't you I think it's it's it's easier or better that you must fight from inside yes we know apar it is wrong but let's fight it from inside maybe we can get a few gains and so on and we rejected that approach we must reject it again now any approach that says You must fight uh you know the subjugation of black people and and uh the perpetuation of their landlessness from inside quote unquote is uh politically shortsighted but as I said these are our people and we need to um engage them and maybe they will see uh the light and we are in Parliament with them so we can engage them but other forces outside of parliament as well but that position is incorrect that we must not make any bones about it uh are they entitled to make take those positions as independent parties of course they are but that does not make it correct our position is very clear any so-called solution to the South African crisis uh that in includes as part of the solution the da and the freedom front and the recognition of Oria and the abolition of um um uh transformation the transformational agenda and and even uh indirect support of the Zionist um um uh Israeli uh forces or you know that that's a complete sellout package which cannot be uh supported by us and therefore we cannot be part a party to an an arrangement like that um the only National Unity we can have is about the land if if you say bring all these parties and um let's talk about the real issues of inequality of Education the education crisis the Health crisis and uh landlessness of of of our people racism rampant racism that is per perpetrated in South Africa we will be the first ones to go to go there to say the here we will even Engage The Enemy forces those who are who are holding our land because that is u a a discussion we can have but we can't be sitting in a cabinet with people who whose mission is to Ure that uh the sins of the past 372 years are are are perpetrated what's the point of that yeah perpetuation of white supremacy that cannot be allowed in this Democratic dispensation yes and they Hing racists even in their ranks now uh and and justifying that kind of racism what they're doing is to what the ANC is doing uh with Raposa is to open the wounds of apartate in our people by you know cross feeding us with these um racists that we must now look at on television every day as our leaders yeah that's nonsense yeah is it too late for thec to come back to its census to try and heal the divisions of the past and now join forces with the progressive uh left kocas or rather the progressive leftist political parties is it too late Advocate no it's not too late it's just it's not it's untenable undera the anc's mission is to do what what what it is doing so if the ANC wants to um uh you know save itself as it were uh as opposed to being rescued you know the da slogan was to rescue South Africa but all they doing is to rescue Rosa so if if they must either be rescued by the masses the NC by appealing to to to to those issues that appeal to the masses or they must be rescued into Oblivion by the by the da and the freedom front so it's never too late but I think that certain individuals within the ANC and certain leaders must now uh wake up and smell the coffee the idea of fighting within the ANC has lost its its meaning now with this La last uh sellout position so anyone who sits in the ANC caucus in Parliament or sits in the national executive committee of the ANC or sits in any off it structures must know that they are part of the enemy forces they are part of um of of enemies of our people and uh that's it you know and how the people will deal with that is a is a business of the people but our job as revolutionary forces is to analyze and explain and educate our people as to what is actually happening not what the headlines or the media is trying to feed them the Constitution Advocate outlines that the president has got the prerogative to appoint uh Deputy president and uh ministers as well as Deputy ministers but now why is Raposa not exercising his prerogative to appoint what what makes it so difficult are there any limitations at all when it comes to the president exercising his prerogative no again we have to separate between the legal and constitutional and the political there are no legal or constitutional impediments to Raposa appointing his cabinet he can do it tomorrow or in the next 5 minutes and he can actually in terms of the Constitution he can appoint anyone he can appoint 100% andc cabinet or a 100% da cabinet if he wants so that's the legal side it's very clear but there are political impediments to what he's doing because he's not the president as envisaged in the Constitution when it talks about the president having a free hand to appoint cabinet it almost assumes a cabinet a president who's got proper political power now Rapa despite the the postulations and swearing in and pump and ceremony is a limping president because he's there with a 40% mandate and therefore he cannot do whatever he likes even if the Constitution says he he must do whatever he likes so his one hand is free but his other hand is Shackled to the DA and that's what what um Helen Zill has been reminding him off to say look you might have the so-call prerogative but remember that um you've also you've signed yeah a a an agreement that says you this is how you're going to um appoint a a cabinet and that's why it's it's debatable as to whether that agreement is legal or constitutional itself because that so-called so SOI is now shackling or taking away the Constitutional Powers of the of the president and that is the kind of deal well if you send balula to sign deals for you that's what you get yeah so so the the so uh people must not confuse the Constitutional fre hand that the president have has with the um Shackled political uh situation in which they have imprisoned themselves with the da so what is the way forward now uh will we when is the president going to appoint his cabinet because now with this uh statement of intent if you go through uh the statement of intent I think it's section 19 sub cluse 19 in fact subsection 3 it talks about the political parties that are signat to the G gnu representing 60% that they will have to uh agree on sufficient consensus now how do how do we go about this will we see a cabinet that emanates from the so SOI agreement or will see a cabinet that emanates from the so called the present Pro prerogative well no you're never going to see one that comes from the prerogative because as I say the prerogative has been compromised so the what's actually going to happen I think is the following he's going to announce his cabinet and um maybe with less cabinet ministers for the da than what they demanding but with more than what the ANC was offering so they're going to find some kind of of compromise but they have no choice the funders are there so the idea that the ANC can walk away from this deal is that's not going to happen because this deal is they're entering it at gunpoint basically it started in 2017 yeah it started in 2017 people don't invest a billion Rand in you and then you come and and say you have a free hand yeah so you must accept South Africans must accept emotionally that H we're back in apartate that our country has been bought back with 30 pieces of silver uh paid to S Raposa and that he has betrayed the revolution so the deal is going to happen now how the deal is going to happen is that the the the da will get some of what it wants so in other words they'll do maybe an addendum of some sort to the agreement and and try to relax some of the of the Clauses so that the deal can go through or delay and say that they'll they'll deal with difficult issues uh afterwards and so on some kind of delaying tactic that allows the president to to um to to appoint a cabinet then thereafter the da is going to then want their pound of Flesh that's why they say if they have a department they want the minister the deputy Minister and the DG the so-called cada deployment that they've been running around now they want to do it um that they've been opposing in courts now they want to implement it because they want to have a um a complete uh control so that even the tenders must go to their preferred um people when tenders go to white people it's not going to be called corruption will be called um good governance yeah yeah and and so they want to consolidate the their power while Rosa is still in in in in place because they know that thereafter the people the real uh Revolution is going to take place and um The Christmas is going to be over so it's like the last Feeding Frenzy of the corrupt ANC and the corrupt uh da forces to make sure that they enjoy however long this thing is going to last a year 6 months I think or uh two years if they're lucky so that's the that's the plan really yeah and the Constitution as it were Advocate is the supreme law of the country but now with what you have just alluded there are elements that seek to undermine the very same Constitution because now it begs the question what's the importance of the Constitution because someone can just act or could there could be forces that takes decision that may not necessarily uh resonate with uh the Constitution because now the president and well it seems like it's just cosmetic that has got the prerogative to appoint does so what does that say to the Constitution that was fought for or our own Constitution do you think at some point we may need to uh amend the the Constitution as it is yes no the Constitution has got serious flaws I mean you must remember that it was our first attempt under under certain circumstances so even for those of us who who believe in the Constitution or constitutionalism per se the the Constitution has got serious flaws I can tell you that um major flaws it it the checks and balances within the Constitution are not sufficient um and some of them uh you can even understand and sympathize with the drafters of the Constitution like what I've just told you now if you read the Constitution properly uh particularly on the executive the chapter on the executive and the chapter on the on the uh legislature it is you can almost tell and I know because I was there in the periphery that those people who draft in the Constitution never envisage for example a situation like this they always had in mind if they say the president they have in mind the president who's got a proper mandate and majority and so if if if even the 14 days thing they would say the first sitting must be in 14 days it assumes we've had elections now you you just tied up a few things and and meet it doesn't envisage that you might have to have very serious negotiations uh because that 14 days would not be enough here so there are many uh the list is endless the Constitution and also remember the Constitution is part of the system if you use proper revolutionary Theory the state the apparatus of the state includes the legislature the um uh Judiciary ex and the executive even in in Liberal theory for that matter but uh from a revolutionary point of view when you talk about the forces that must abolish the apparatus of the state you mean uh uh all those uh forces so the courts in in terms of the current uh uh dispensation are the custodians of the Constitution but I can put money now if you went to a court and said um the statement of intent of the gnu is anti is unconstitutional or or undermines the Constitution you're not going to succeed because that's just too too high level uh so I like the way you put it you said it's part of the system yes it's part of the system and the system the system is like your body it its first instinct is to protect itself uh and and to survive and then it looks at at at other things so a a system like that to think that you cannot fight a revolution in the courts the courts are there as a place where for tactical reasons you have to bring certain issues to the four to bring them to the attention not so much even of the court but the attention of the public and it's a Terrain if you look at it like that then it's a it's a Terrain of struggle in that sense because it's it's a a space that is open a peaceful space where you can articulate uh certain positions just like you you do with Parliament Parliament is also not a Terrain of of of Revolution it's a it's um a place where you are able to to speak and educate uh the the masses the revolution is not going to be one in the courts or in in Parliament the revolution is going to one to be one in the streets in action deliberate action challenging the state score by Our People by whatever means necessary and to the extent that there are legal ways to do that then it must be done within within uh those those legal ways but uh that's what uh we're involved with we're not involved is when you say it's a generational Mission we mean that it's not something about this election or the next election or the or the other it's a mission to reverse what has happened over centuries and it's the gains are already being made MH I made a I sent a message um which says that in 2013 when the eff was formed there was no voice in in that Parliament that represents um uh fundamental change real total economic Liberation 2014 we managed to get to 6% now you have this what you've called the progressive uh caucus which represent more than 25% more than 100 seats so it might not look like it to the naked eye but actually the forces of real change are gaining traction if within 10 years we've made uh so much strides here and ours is to intensify the fight and as you intensify the forces of of of Revolution the forces of reaction the reactionary forces are also consolidating that's why you have the da andc Coalition uh sponsored by by white Capital so that they can counter this and that's why this side is called the Doomsday uh uh uh Coalition and uh in time that's I mean doomsday Coalition compared to what they used to call us in the 60s and 70s of terrorists and all sorts of things yeah so those um appellations should not discourage in fact they should make us proud because because to be insulted by fools means that you're doing the right thing you're on track and I mean Advocate you're quite SP spot on I mean it took the ANC over 82 years to to take over power I mean thec was born in 1912 until 1994 so the eff is still fairly young and is a generational Mission indeed so you just never know maybe in 2026 2029 absolutely our time well I can tell you a secret when the eff was started our own assessment was that you know to break the strangle hold of the ANC might take us about 20 years or so that and it has taken less than 10 years the thing is half dead as we speak now so it's actually a cause to celebrate and the last thing any member of the eff must ever feel is to think that we have not achieved our objectives we have actually overachieved because we Open the Eyes of our people we have um agitated for our people to see the sellout deal as as which started in 2017 as you say for for for what it is and um it is those forces for us to succeed it doesn't mean everyone must necessarily vote for the eff as long as people know that we are being sold out here which route they use to to fight that is is up to them and um and that's the fundamental mistake that ANC has done by the way you see if you are uh if you want to to change society you should say is this what is in the best interest of the people that's the first thing then secondly what is in the best interest of your own organization or movement and and so on and that's the approach that uh we've always taken as the as the eff thec this Raposa one does the exact opposite yeah they start by saying what is in the best interest of thec and then they think okay and I can even sympathize with them maybe it's not in the best interest of the NC to collaborate with the E and other Progressive forces because they think they'll be who will outsign them and then only after that they think I I don't even know if they go to the second question of what's in the best interest of of the people and that struggle is is is always going to be uh shortlived because um you can't have a a a you can't be guided by your selfish interest as an organization at the expense of the of the people which is what they've done with the sellout deal yeah and mkp believes that the elections were a free and fairm and they would want a rerun of Elections what's your standpoint well I can't comment on that because I might be involved in the in some of the legal challeng what I can tell you generally is that the constitution um allows for a situation where if the elections are set aside for whatever reason there are many reasons why elections might be set aside if the elections are set aside the Constitution uh prescribes that fresh elections must be held within 90 days of that court order and so there are various um challenges to the elections now by the M by the MK Party by various some of the smaller parties so those challenges will either be successful or unsuccessful if they are unsuccessful well that's the end of it if they're successful then um Constitution prescribes that they should be U elections within 90 days and election challenges are not something new it's just that in this country sometimes again uh some of these um institutions you know take it personally when when you exercise your constitutional rights but um elections have been challenged I was involved in an election challenge in Zimbabwe the court there in Zimbabwe listened to us uh they uh did not uh anal the elections as we expected you could even tell it even when you were in the courtroom but they entertained it in Kenya there was the same um election um um challenges in the US it happens even with state election um that elections are challenged sometimes successfully sometimes unsuccessfully so there's nothing uh you know abhorent about uh challenging the outcome of Elections or anything of a football match or whatever if you're not happy about the way that it was it was conducted and uh now the president um has not appointed the cabinet is there any time frame at all as to which what time or when he is supposed to announce his uh cabinet and if not what is going to happen if he further delays the appointment of uh cabinet when it comes to the issues of budget approval in ministries and departments no as I said there's no time frame but it's something that must obviously be done as soon as possible my own prediction is that it's going to be done within the next week or so because as I say it's not as if they seriously reconsidering it's just a question of how to how to structure the sellout deal but the sellout deal is going to go through so it's it's and it's all about positions now it's about you take this you take that yeah and at the center of this m is the protection of the sellout regime of Raposa that is why the da was prepared because the one thing that the ANC was not prepared to do was to give away the presidency because that's what the whole deal is about and the speaker why because the speaker of parliament is the person who decides uh on the impeachment Pro processes of the president MH so I think that's what they decided that look we can lose everything we can even give away the whole cabinet but uh we must have the president and the speaker and that is why the da then gave in the da voted we saw it with your own eyes the the people voting in Parliament the da voted for Raposa and the da voted for tooa so that is the big protection of Raposa to make sure that if there's an impeachment or a vote of no confidence the speaker must not allow for a secret ballot for example because they don't trust even some of the UHC caders were there so that was the most important thing for the entire deal uh that's why that was done without any any problems and we must take our heads off to the eff because that deal was supposed to be done in a hashash way and um you know after two hours they vote for the president and the speaker but the efff made sure that we contest each and every position so that we the the masses must see that uh the speaker is being voted for by the da and freedom front and the president is being voted for by the da and freedom front and the da Deputy speaker was voted for by the ancc people so the sellout deal is Now official it's there the masses have seen for themselves if if we had allowed them those people to go into uh office un opposed then they would have said well they won we don't know it's a secret ballot and so on but now we know mhm what is what would happen if or rather let me rephrase this question now let's take Advocate the president decides to appoint uh ministers or two ministers who are not part of the gnu and they decide to take let's say deputy president of the eff um Floyd shambu to be the minister of uh Finance is that a possibility would the eff consider that uh although I believe that the EF will not join like it said that it won't join the gnu but if ramapa offers the eff the Finance Minister Position will the eff consider that what do you think will happen well I'm sure obviously I don't speak for the leadership of the eff but the E I know would do not accept that consider of course you have to consider and look at the pros and cons asking the questions that I've I've asked what is this in the interest of our people and is it in the interest of the revolution in general and uh and and the organization um personally my answer to all those would be would be no but um let me explain our position is is is is very simple MH again you have to separate the the legal from the political legally there is nothing stopping uh the president to from inviting anybody to be part of the cabinet they they it won be the first time by the way they invited us um even in 2019 and we rejected that they invited Patricia Dil when they had the majority and she accepted so you know there's nothing legally wrong with that MH or rather which is impossible or has any impediment M but politically this is not 2019 uh this is 2024 where they've lost an election so they have no choice but to have other people in the in the in the cabinet who those people are well they will depend on the hor trading that is happening now but there's no there's no longer a choice in 2019 they could have said we invite you if eff says no well tough luck or if even if good party had said no well then they would have put a cabinet of of their own MH now they have no choice so people must distinguish between that political reality U so now they have to give away something and that is why you know uh the da in a Twisted way is quite correct to insist on asking for the moon if they if they because they've got they're holding the power yeah so if I was them I would ask for to say I want the 100% cabinet you you've got the legislature and and so on so um the the the the the ANC as I say has put itself into that trap where they had an option of saying look and this would have been if if I was in the NC the what I would have advised is to say look you have the eff you have the MK party udm and other uh even Pac Breakaway parties from from the um ANC MH we are now in a situation where we're in a crisis we're dying we on our death bed isn't it better to have what I call family meeting and see if we can't uh revive and that doesn't mean collapsing the other organizations or anything but some kind of um United force that will take the struggle you know at another level if you have to compromise on issues of land or even on issues of of leadership who's the leader whatever these other organizations ask for then we you can negotiate that that's what they should have done but instead of taking that choice they've taken the choice of selling out and the choice of out always has one end they must ask M they must ask Matan and all those people the choice of selling out is only one one way it ends in in a real doomsday yeah so what do you make of the mkp members of parliament who have just been sown in and uh judge cler is amongst them um would you look forward to a able uh you know cordial relationship between the eff and the mkp uh of course in holding the executive to account oh yes the eff has always uh from the days when we only had 25 members in Parliament M believed that um you need collaboration with um Progressive forces in in in the in the house that's why the very first thing thing we ever put in Parliament in 2014 was to say the ANC with uh 62% I think at that time and the eff with 6% combined have 68% which is the required 2/3 to return our land and we made an offer to the NC openly in broad daylight in the in the house to say let's collaborate and return our people's land that offer was rejected M um so when where are there are likeminded uh parties who uh call for the return of the land then obviously that that that is music to to our ears yeah okay so as we wrap up uh Advocate what should South Africans expect from the eff in the next uh 5 years when stand we are back in Parliament and uh what will be the role of the EF uh going forward in this uh 5 years with the election outcome that is well you know if if the our quest for Liberation was the what we call the comrades Marathon I would say we are now on the on the last uh Rise um and uh so you know as you would say to a comrades Marathon R yeah if you give up when you are just on your last Summit then what's what was the point of the other 85 kilm yeah so we're almost there we really are it might not look like it but people once they've sobered up and analyze the situation they'll realize that we are so close to the Breakthrough of economic freedom it's not funny we are almost we can almost smell it m and uh and therefore forces like the eff and other forces inside and outside of parliament must now go for the last mile as it were and go as if there's no tomorrow it should be action action action unity in action we must challenge you know in the 80s there was a document that was released called from protest to challenge that's what we must do now we must challenge this Coalition this sellout deal with everything in our blood and uh go and and and expose it for what it is to our people and uh as I say I think Victory is is around the corner yeah and they always say doesn't matter how you begin the race what matters is how you finish finish yeah this is this is it now this is the we're in the gain the momentum now we're in the Sprint in the Sprint now we entered the stadium and U I'm I'm very excited about what's happening because I've always argued that the South African political scene might look confusing well there are 50 parties and so on but in reality there are three blocks there is the rightwing block represented by the so-called moonshot packed parties there's the center right which is thec and then there's the left so those are the contesting parties and the ANC had a choice now to align itself with the left or with the right they've chosen to align themselves with the right and therefore it's now the battle lines are clear it's a it's a two horse race and we have to demolish the forces of backwardness and darkness and reactionary forces in this country with everything we have absolutely and the national Prosecuting Authority has postponed the alleged firearm dis charge case against the cic Julius malma to November for closing arguments uh your thoughts on that well I think that uh the president performed extremely well in court for exposing the firstly the that the origin of this thing is is afri Forum so it's part of what I've called the right-wing assault on on Progressive forces it's not a coincidence that the Democratic Alliance identified the eff as Enemy Number One M it's not a coincidence that the entire media apparatus will attack the the uh efff and all state institutions without any exception uh and even the Mickey Mouse parties that have just mushroom now likei what what you know everyone you know is given millions and millions by the opener to attack the eff so for the eff to have performed as it has in these elections and more or less remained where it is against Relentless attack from all the quarters uh from all the forces both inside and outside of this country it shows the resilience particularly of young people uh who are not going to be Hoodwinked and that is the solution um so that court case symbolizes the the the fighting spirit I think of the of the of the EF because it is young people and young leaders who are going to get us out of this mess it was young people who fought against BTO education in 1976 it was not the parents it was the young people it was the young people in the 80s My Generation that fought in the streets uh against the South African Defense Force um and uh the old people were saying no don't you think this is a bit too too much can't we talk about this and uh if if young people had not done those things the leadership would have died in prison and those who were in Exile would have died in Exile so again we're going to be uh taken out of this mess by the young people and where are those young people found now in the economic freedom fighters and they must be armed um um figuratively they must be armed with all the tools that they need to get us out of the current political crisis and the sellout deal of Raposa Helen Zill and Stan yeah no indeed Advocate please uh allow me to welcome our guests who are joining us virtually now uh we have two guests via Zoom who are joining us we joined uh via Zoom by political analyst uh Dr F vas starting with the news further a uh Dr a very good morning to you and welcome to the efff podcast good morning to you Titus and to viewers of the economy fre Fighters thank you for inviting me Amanda and uh with news further doctor the Kenyan President William rut has declined to sign the most controversial uh finance bill 2024 into law what your take on that titas um if you look at the situation that is happening in Kenya right now around that law is that citizens in Kenya are basically saying you cannot put a law in in in in in in place that seeks to increase taxes when citizens conditions living material conditions of the people um you know have not been altered particularly the majority of young people in Kenya I think we have a similar situation in Kenya like we have here in South Africa and Elsewhere on the continent where young people continue to suffer unemployment you know um MRE incomes where they happen to work so now this legislation in Kenya seeks to introduce the increase in the tax is that obviously it is going to hit on the pocket of the consumer and who is the consumer is the person mostly that is a worker a consumer is is is really your working class whether you're middle class or just at the bottom of the ladder and and that is what the protest has been about and so for me I wanted to point it out that I think president Ruto is not delivering on his promise you remember when he was elected he actually promised the people of Kenya that he was going to bring in reforms that are going to necessitate yeah um you know taking care of the poorest of the poor in Kenya but he is now through this legislation being seen by by Kenyans to be taking a completely neoliberal approach that is deeply you know compromising his promises and perhaps deepening the the the depth of poverty in in Kenya so the second what I see happening there is that but people are protesting you know citizens have a right to protest and if you look at the acan charter on human and people's rights it actually makes provision that every citizen has got a right to express you know there are different articles in the African chapter um that that that speak about those things and I feel like Kenya like any other country many other countries on the African continent is party to the African Charter on human and people's rights so you cannot deny citizens the right to express through protest in this particular case I think it's something similar that we saw what happened to the economic fre fighters in our parliament in South Africa when there was protest around the question of palal and it's a trend that we are seeing on the African continent that there seems to be this culture ofing citizens expression freedom of of expression freedom of assembly whether people are gathered to express disection with the government so I see those Dynamics happening in Kenya as well and I think that is going to compromise the political positioning of President bro even further people are going to begin to doubt him you know especially the majority of young people that had supported him and and the worst thing was the heightened militarization you know the fact that you bringing the Army to actually really exercise M because people have died I don't know if you've seen that but people have died of a story of a mother that lost a child the in the protest in the killings you know so those that's problematic in a continent where we are saying let us reduce militarization and let us heighten at least delivery to the people and I think that's what the Dynamics are in that situation in Kenya right now and quite certainly uh doc uh we have seen people's lives being lost but there are people that are praising president Ruto to say he's a listening leader but when you look on the other side you know the there are people who protesting and had to pay the price with their lives uh what would you say about that do you think is he listened very late or in fact these death could have been prevented if this bill at all was not passed by col in the first place I think it could have been I really think it could have been I saw that he eventually conceded um you know especially after the shooting and ured from the Army first I think he should not have called the Army out I think they should not have ordered an army to come they should have found a different way of engaging the protesters um so I think he responded very late and unfortunately in this particular case this is going to go down in the history of Kenya as one of the massacres um under his leadership and that's not a good record you want to have as a president so I really think he delayed Justice in that particular instance uh for the people of Kenya and there's a lot of the procussions now that he's got to deal with reparations for the people that have lost their loved ones reparations of trust you know amongst the citizens who already you know beginning to to not trust in so it's going to have to do now a lot of work which is which is not necessary if he forance considered earlier things could have been different absolutely and now back home the University of kep Town Council has resolved that no UCT academic may enter into relations with Israel this obviously come in the awake of the Gaza conflict what do you make of this do you think this resolution by the University of cap town is uh is good in fact in the process of um and and and viewers I I think that is a step in the right direction especially when you look at our foreign policy as a country you know I think we have right just recently affirmed our support to the people of Palestine and the people of Gaza um and and to make sure that we do not want to associate ourselves with the zionists as a nation we've taken a stand on that various political parties in the country Civil Society organizations have demonstrated support for the people of Palestine um and I think then when you have an institution of of Higher Learning like UCT making a stance to say we don't want our researchers to work with the ists or the pro- israels it's something that I think we need to applaud and perhaps begin to say it's something that we want to encourage in fact to see happening in all our institutions of High Learning because that is the kind of stance that we need to be able to demonstrate even from that place to show our solidarity to the people of Palestine and to to to show our commitments so that we are not even compromising even at the level of that place where somebody sells you a contract to say you can do this work with me and then and then you succumb because of money and other things so it shows some kind of um some kind of ethical you know consideration in that regard I mean I don't know necessarily about the citizen institution whether whether it is an Institutional position but I think it's a step in the right direction given foreign policy um I think it's something we really must and appreciate yeah and all the political parties that are signat to the gnu are in L ahead now and that's affecting the president announcement of a new cabinet can you just give us a sense your sense of what you make of this so-called government of national unity and why until this day we don't have a [Music] cab titas you know that conversation is a very delicate one um the the whole notion I think of the government of national Unity from the onset was a fragile one in that it was never necessarily A government of national Unity I think we just saw the the emergence emergence of some kind of a broad Coalition and when you enter into a coalition of his nature or negotiation of his nature from a point of political Divergence you are like you are bound end case let's take an example of the NC you look at the manifesto Titus you look at their political I mean their policy commitments they are so Divergent right so if you want to really have a negotiation that is quicker and faster and that goes in the right direction you want to start negotiating political parties where you are likely from the point of policy you start from the face of convergence and there are many of those examples right you look at the NC look at the the EF you look at in controverses where you look at UTM maybe the phc you know the progressive left I would imagine most of them emerging risings those are the political parties I would imagine thec would probably start to talk to it is obvious I think the E you know economic comes from thec I think chances that your policies are similar in so many ways is a break away from thec so there there are clear points of convergence that I think the public can see there around for instance the question of the of of economic freedom you know around the question of radical economic transformation Why not start with those political parties why do you want to go and start with a DA which is completely opposed to things like your minimum wage um you know around PS of land where do you begin to negotiate with the da on the question of no compensation for instance so I think I think that is what is making the G to dindle a bit you know and and and and I don't know what the AC actually was really expecting you know the the da I did say from the onset when this came up 000 and viewers at home my take on it was the da is going to ask for anything the da is likely to ask for the deputy presidency here because they are handed this with with the platter uh so I think we started on the wrong foot um but we just have to see in the next couple of days what happens but we remain hopeful my reading of the situation is something that I wrote about I I I I I I I just read that we are going to stay in this buffer zone Titus there's a formula that I came up with to say this buffer zone is going to take some time and I see a lot of fluidity back and forth and I still in my reading of the situation I see the ANC bouncing back into the progressive left but I think it depends on the conversations that are happening in negotiations of course between political parties at this point yeah um but it is my suspicion I think I think the da is going to ask for ridiculous demands I suspect I'm not necessarily in the Roman coalitions but that's just my reading of the situation and I think those demands are going to push the NC back into the hands of the progressive left whether they are willing to Shi towards to shift towards the left or in the center is a decision they need to make but that's the direction our politics is going to but I think it depends then on on on the willness and the ability to humble and the ability and considering the president yeah considering the president's prerogative to appoint Deputy president and ministers would you then say that we are at a crossroad because now the prerogative somehow to some extent it life compromised by the s SOI the statement of intent that the thec and other political parties 10 of them that have sign I I think we are in a predic comment you know the the president by Constitution has got the prerogative to appoint but now this say statement of intent demands that he cannot do that without consulting members of the you know current GMU and you have seen in the last couple of days titas how Madame Zilla has vented on the public about making sure that the NC doesn't make any decision without consulting um you know the gnu members so so I think there will that is going to cause delays and I think it's going to cause certain compromises in terms of who the president elects I believe that they are demanding the deputy presidency or theyand you know the D in particular is demanding if not maybe an offic presidency those are delicate demands those are delicate demands I think that the ANC is really caught up between a hot a rock and a hot place um and I and I really think that it should require to to to to to discern the moment you know where do you want to going into do you want to see South Africa having a deputy presidency in the hand of the democratic Alliance a political party that is still struggling with questions of racism time yeah in of time do we're going to have to leave it here but thank you very much for coming through and making time here on the E podcast looking forward to engaging with you some other time thank you Titus you're welcome thank you for inviting me thank you and now we are off to Namibia where we are joined via Zoom by the eff Namibia General commiss on economic development me Michael he calls himself Sadam a very good morning and welcome to the E podcast Titus thank you very much for having me on the show uh it's unfortunate that I could not Mama's house I would have love to be there house but unfortunately due to circumstances I'm not able to be there no we're looking forward to hosting you here at the wi Mandela house in Johannesburg soonest now we are hearing the news that the eff in Namibia has been deregistered as a political party can you just bring us up to speed as to what might have led to this and uh what is your stance as the leadership of Mania on the so there's been calls for our party to be politically deregistered especially by the current ruling party and it seems to me the Liber a movements have started acting like FV when he was head of the national party and they are basically trying to castrate any movement that seems to liberate black people that seems to Aspire to free black people economically that seeks to nationalize the land that seeks to nationalize the mines Banks and key sectors of the economy so we have heard with sad news on the 17th of June that uh Namibia economic freedom fighters has been deregistered by the Electoral Commission of Namibia however what is funny is that uh on the 24th of April the Electoral commission had written a letter to us that we need to make some few submissions in terms of the Electoral Act of 2014 uh which we have done but all of a sudden uh they've given us a deadline of 30 uh 30th June uh as far as I'm concerned today is only the 27th of June yet on the 17th of June they had already D that our political party uh we have reasons to believe that this is politically motivated simply on the basis because Namibia economic freedom fighters is one of the most rising and fastest growing political parties in this country and they are obviously afraid of the youth vote because a lot of Youth young people are tired a lot of young people are are literally fed up with the current ruling party and obviously the working class is also fed up with the ruling party because we still have uh the oppression of workers workers are still being exploited our people are still in poverty so the only party that truly and genuinely represents the aspirations of our people is Namibia economic freedom fighters and that is why uh they've recalled our members of parliament uh that is why they deregistered our political party and that is why they've also on various occasions arrested many of our political kisas in order for them to silence our movement but unfortunately we're not going to allow this silencing by the Electoral commission board because it seems to me that already we must be very scared uh if they are already behaving like this I wonder what is going to happen on election date it's clear that they already have Picken a site it seems to me they've already chosen a winner in fact they are behaving almost similar to your independent electoral commission so it seems to me are not independent talking about elections uh we understand that Namibia is going for elections in November latest this year would you then attribute this D registration uh by the uh electoral Commission of Namibia to perhaps being some sort of uh infiltration by the ruling party fearing that the economic freedom fighters May contest and may win the hearts and the minds of the people [Music] ofia we have already won the hearts and minds of the people of Namibia and that is why they are fearful that is why they already shivering that is why they already scared and that is why obviously uh they've deregistered our political party so that we will not be able to contest in the coming elections which are less than three and a half months away from now so it's clear and it's evident that the in party knows for effect that it's going to suffer the same fate its sister party thec has suffered so now they are trying by all means necessary to use all the tricks that they have I mean we have seen the elections in Zimbabwe how zopf literally uh used corruption and fear mongering in order for them to steal that particular election so the problem with Liberation movements is that they've stayed too long in power and unfortunately we must do to them what they have done to the former aparted regimes and our former colonizers so song of the day Advocate a song that you would like to dedicate to the fighters well from our albums uh my favorite is e by Zahara the late Zahara yeah that's the song that we sang she saying when we were opening this building oh yes house wow thank you very much advocate for coming through always a pleasure to have you with us here we really appreciate your inputs and making sense of current affairs and obviously now the fighters would have a sense of what is happening in the country and what is going to to happen so we really appreciate your time thank you the message is Fighters attack yeah thank you very much ladies and gentlemen for tuning in this is the eff podcast please remember to subscribe to the eff YouTube channel for more content on the eff podcast we' have come to the end of the show H Zahara the L Zahara as you can hear in the background indeed throughout so we're done here and we're coming back very soon so my name is Titus until meet again [Music]

Channel: Economic Freedom Fighters

Views: 151,638

Keywords: Economic, Freedom, Fighters, LandAndJobsManje

Id: iRWvZyG-5Ag

Length: 83min 53sec (5033 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 28 2024