Economic Challenges For Muslims In America - Jamal Badawi

alhamdulillah Hopalong I mean why should I learn in Lamar Valley Osada Hien why shadow NSA ADA now in a VA now I have even a mohammed ur rasoolallah vitamin MBA he was a little more saline a lot more suddenly were said Amanda up the chorus will occur and a weakened me Muhammad in salalah are you seldom well early he was so happy he other than hot over here in Mohave he Okada Masaki Tabuk what of the love man said that in a be back tomorrow Osman our Alan - Oh Hobart had mine on a table in a hotel in the sand I owe me Dean my dear brothers and sisters Islam Salaam alaikum warahmatullahi were a care to and my sincere thanks to the organizers and to you for the privilege you give me to share a few humble thoughts about the economic challenge of Muslims in North America the topic is part of a general theme of this conference Muslims from survival to success it is therefore natural to begin by shedding some light on the terms we are using what is survival and what is success what do we mean when we speak about survival are we talking about physiological survival of the species in the same way we speak about the survivor of sharks elephants humming birds and crocodiles where you have lots or abundance of that here in Florida and then what is the end of this survival for any particular generation of animals or humans or Muslims for that matter the cycle of life takes its course and the generation is gone like Ahamed orizari may Allah forgive him and bless his soul once likened life to a conveyor belt that's moving slowly on one end of the conveyor belt people are born and they keep running they crawl for some time but they keep running they run and the conveyor belt is moving and at one point of time at the end they fall into their graves and another group is dropped in the beginning of the conveyor belt what a description it follows then that the survival true survival of Muslims is the survival of the message they carry and the continuation to perform the duties entrusted to them to be the trustees of Allah on earth and the witnesses over mankind and if facing economic challenges is seen only as a means of achieving those responsibilities then be it that's good the second term success what do you mean by success we have successful Muslims in North America wealth power and influence Fame and prominence then the question is like the same question raised about survival what is the end an ultimate goal of that success suppose Muslims in North America become the most wealthy the most influential so what and for what purpose if power and wealth are ends then we are in trouble if we see power and wealth as means to more noble ends in the same way that the wealth of Abdul Rahman above and Osman Abner fan were used to help Muslims then this is the kind of success we're talking about if we look into the Quran in my humble understanding the closest term to success in the Quran is fella how does the Koran describe success or fella just two samples what top allaha la allakum to flee hone to be conscious of Allah to fear Allah to love Allah these are all meaning that goes with taqwa it's not just one fear love and feeling of the presence of Allah is the key to follow the success but even when the Quran goes from the generalities to specifics to define fella you look at the beginning of surat amin on the 23rd surah in the Quran Allah had me noon successful indeed are the believers and what descriptions are given it did not say la Jara simile on our list rocky you and I will have Nia Oh Elmo telephone did not say the successful are those who are capitalist industrial magnets what is Fela described here and maroon believers first with all the description that goes with him and that's not the main topic but then the characteristics of Allah they are humble in their prayers they are the ones who keep away from vain talk Lusaka teeth are not big will repay zakah did it didn't sell it the cut it of your own the car actually means purification they pre of purifying themselves which include also purifying wealth by paying zakat chastity guarding their chastity fulfilling the only then it says I Iike Homewood very soon and levena a typhoon and 4,000 theophylline these are indeed the heirs who will inherit the Firdaus the paradise in which they dwell in forever but then a third observation what does that all mean and why should the topic on economic challenge begin with shedding light on the terms survival and success does that mean that the economic prosperity of Muslims as individuals or communities in North America is a relevant unimportant the answer of course not Allah subhana WA Ta'ala says in the Quran what CUDA washable air to Shifu in na hoona a bull moose Rufin Pohlman Haram a Zenith Allah he let he Alfred le I bet he what I bet Meniere's Allah says eat and drink and commit no excesses Allah doesn't love those who commit excesses and then says who say who has forbidden or made Haram for people the good adornment and hold something that he made for his servant the prophet sallallaahu seldom says Naaman mellow saleh then abdus salam what is better than good that means pure wealth for a person who's also a pious person in the advice given to Korra or karun most likely the biblical correct the Quran says approvingly web tele FEMA attack allahu dar al al kharid well attention hace became in at dunya well I seen cameras on Allah awake what a tabatha said of an audit in a lotta University seek in what Allah has bestowed upon you the Hereafter but that's not all and forget not your share in this life be good as Allah has been good to you and seek no mischief on earth for Allah doesn't love those mischief doers it follows then that the purpose of that introduction is to put our topic in proper perspective more specifically that we cannot on economic issues begin from the reality the situation we're living in and then go backwards to try and find some justification in shariah example a typical example I might be losing some customers if I don't sell beer in my store then it is the duty of Muslim scholars to find him find me some custom-made fatwa that would get me out of that mess and guarantee that I'd make the maximum profit I can make but this does not mean however that the realities of life is something that has absolutely nothing to do with Sharia otherwise the rule of the ruler absolute necessities would not have been there in Sharia realities of life real problems faced by people has something to do with Sharia there's no question about that but we have to put things in the right order we don't begin from these realities and demand that Islam should accommodate the kind of profits that we want and the kind of life we perceive but we begin from what Allah wants from us what the limits that he set for us go back and check that reality and then try to see if within the rules of Sharia there could be some accommodation and how far can that accommodation be made without trespassing the limits of Allah subhanAllah the key approach for presentation insha Allah will be by taking at least three major challenges elaborating on them a little bit not much and then takes six other areas rather quickly and each of the major ones will begin inshallah with a statement first of the type of challenge secondly to follow the same methodology suggested to find what are the Sharia our limits what is there in the Quran and Sunnah about those challenges and thirdly how can we deal with that situation if it is not an ideal situation what alternatives might be available in the short term and hopefully also in the long term the three areas is selling things that are forbidden the question of RIBA and the question of insurance and then there will be a few more issues maybe I'll mention them from now so that you can get your questions ready because I try to be as brief as I could so that an issue like that could be covered more with questions I intend insha'Allah also to talk very briefly in on the issue of the the RIBA being part of lots of other dealings other than the direct dealings the issue of saving plans matched by the employers pension student loans brokerage fees working in insurance companies or banks and the issue of interests that is accrued on one's account in the bank but let me begin first with the first major issue what is Haram and what is halal the typical questions how could I have a store without selling things that would attract customers like swine meat beer wine or having lottery ticket sold and if I don't sell those things customers won't come because these are the thing that attract people to come and buy from me so by cutting off these things I'm cutting off also lots of other customer might buy otherwise health stuff how could I get a franchise when the franchise requires me to sell beer or pork I be losing customers this way now is that a problem it sure is a problem but let us begin again with the second question on each of these topics what are the rules of Sharia our first of all what is there in the Quran and Sunnah about it can a Muslim sell forbidden things under any circumstances the answer come in the hadith of the prophet sallallaahu silent as narrated both in Ahmed and Abu Dawood in Allah either high drama she and her drama Samana if Allah forbid something he also forbade eating its price so it's not the issue of eating pork but eating the money resulting from selling pork in another hadith narrated both in Bukhari and Muslim of the highest authenticity in allah rasool allahö drama by al hamra when made that I work in 0 and Islam Allah spinel Allah and His Messenger made it unlawful to sell intoxicants animals that died without properly slaughter swine meat and statues for idols in another hadith narrated both in eternity and open imagine and it was reported that there were the narrators are thought that they are trusted ones Lannon abuse illallah WA new aceldama phil camry Ashura Asura Hamato Sara ha wash Arriba Abajo Milla Hal my mullet ala was happy ha baba yaga were Acula the maneja well mr. eel aha one moose territory that means the prophet sallallaahu Salem has cursed in in toxicants 10 means 10 categories the one who makes it and the one who wanted me or had it had have it made and the person who drank it the person who carried the person to whom it's carried the person who gave it to other to drink the one who sells it the one who eats its price the one who buy it and the person to whom it is purchased a person wanted to give a gift to the Prophet sallallahu wasallam of wine it's very strange gift then the prophet sallallaahu Selim said innallaha Haram aha Allah made it forbidden and unlawful so the man said a fella a bureau huh should I then sell it the Prophet SAW said and say in a levy her drama sure bah ha ha drama by ah ha the one who forbade and made it unlawful to drink is the one who made it unlawful to eat its price or to sell anything that need to be more clear than this then the man said a fella Oh Carrie movie halia how should I just give it as a gift to Jews maybe that was in Medina too they drink it anyway the Prophet sallallahu wasallam said in a levy Haram ah ha ha drama and youa Kurama be had yahood the one who made it unlawful made it unlawful to give it as a gift to the Jews the man said what should I do with it Allatoona ha ha that means spill it on the ground that's the way to deal with it to be more specific now how does that apply to contemporary life of people or Muslim doing business here 1 a Muslim is not supposed to be selling pork meat whether in the form of meat ham sandwiches or products that carry a major part of it as pork like pizza with pork pepperoni or salami secondly it is unlawful for a Muslim who fear Allah subhana WA Ta'ala to sell any in toxicant in any form and by the way they were hammered in the Quran does not mean wine this is mistranslation summer is a Zamora the Allah man who had this natural talent of the language understood it when he said Al Hamra muhammara luck come is anything that big clouds the mind so whether it's hard liquor beer smoking marijuana smoking whatever banana LSD crack you name it would fall within the same thing and the Prophet SAW Allah made it quite clear as narrated in ahmed and abu dawood and at-tirmidhi man Escarra Kathy Rowe who vocally lo had on anything where if you take a large amount would cause you to be intoxicated even a small amount is also Haram no more and more hadith on that subject a third application that selling not only taking selling any intoxicants is unlawful as well fourthly that selling lottery tickets whether it is government lottery or any other type of lottery is Haram in fact it is mentioned in surah al-ma'idah and surah 5 ayah 90 and on yeahyou alladhina amanu in the Malcolm rule may sit one on saab well as lama richest anomaly Shaitaan touched any Google document of Lahore that intoxicants and gambling and other aspects of the pagan practice of the Arabs is of the deeds of Shaitaan you should avoid it or keep away from it that you may achieve success number 5 living in North America again we know that there are other aspects as well that are Haram it is not lawful for a Muslim to sell or rent videos and you know what I mean by that video tapes containing things that are contrary to Sharia not only x-rated type of videos but things that are semi ex as well even if they are imported from the so-called Muslim world carioca and all these other stuff that comes from the so-called Muslim countries with belly dances and all of that and say no no I'm getting it from a Muslim country it cannot be Haram it is not lawful for a Muslim to sell anything that is worshipped instead or beside Allah subhana WA Ta'ala a person a Muslim who sells articles like crosses the statue of Mary may Allah be pleased with her or any other object that some people are used by way of adoration and worship would be obviously Haram as well then again we come back to quite the question that many people will be pressing we will lose customers we'll be losing customers but again sometimes you forget that it is not the customer who gave us risk it is Allah who gives us this through customers and let me tell you a little story that happened with me many years back I forget how long 10 15 years I was giving a lecture in Denver and one brother there had a store sandwich store in a very strategic location in downtown and he was doing all right because lots of employees come during lunch hour to buy sandwich I'll have some drink and then he said I feel guilty he said why brother he said because I have lots of good things juices and sandwiches but some people come and ask for you know ham sandwiches and occasionally beer and I feel bad about it I remind that the brother he said Allah gives risk say what should I do I said you focus on quality and if somebody asked for a ham sandwich say I'm sorry I don't have but have delicious Turkey this or that make sure that you have really good food diversify have lots of attractive types of juices range of that and try it depend on Ilan try it at the beginning he sounded like this man doesn't know what he's talking about he doesn't know the realities of business but later on he told me that I kept thinking that it's not practical but then I said one time let me try it and then he said in no time his business even went up from the Baraka of dealing with Helen but it you might get some people who say that I tried that and I only got you know that loss got losses I had less income I have less profit but suppose even you don't have the same situation like that brother in Denver again Lester comes from Allah and what would wealth do if allah subhanaw taala punishes us suffice allah forbid that a person get a serious disease and all those tens of thousands of dollars are spent in no time might cost $2000 just for one night in hospital what's the benefit and above all if we think long-term how would that affect our well-being in front of allah subhanaw taala in the ultimate day of judgment the question of franchise is difficult I admit I know one brother or sister asked the question last night and not all franchises are the same I heard of some cases with some of the less known franchises were a Muslim demanded and he said you know I cannot sell this items like it said or other sandwiches but not this item they first and argued but finally in few cases they exceeded and made exception but of course I'm not talking in vacuum and I do know that there are some franchises where they will be very very strict about their products if you want to get a franchise like on the submarine sandwiches or McDonald or burger burger king or whatever they are very strict on that because they make national advertisement of their products some of which contained pork and it's very very difficult for them ready to give exception even if the marketing manager might might be willing to do this it's very hard but of course we can say that long term if Muslims unite together a sort of coalition of Muslim business persons and the continent and keep writing and pushing those big franchises may they could make ultimately in the future I'm not saying this will happen immediately franchise contract a and B giving some concession to Muslims and possibly Muslims and Jews for that matter this is an area where some cooperation even could be productive I know some of you might say this is not realistic but only two days ago yeah two days ago we received a letter in the Islamic information foundation and Halifax based on a big fight that some sisters I give credit to the sisters actually had with the Tim Hortons doughnuts oftentimes we used to ask them is there any large in the Tim Horton products but they were evasive the user say oh no no if we fry it in pure vegetable oil and some people took that as a sufficient answer I mean though fried in vegetable what's what's the problem with though but to their misfortune one of those sisters happen to have a degree in nutrition and she knows also that the mixes even the flour could be mixed with with other products like fat so ask them specifically about that they were evasive and they were lots of battle that went on for several month several months and ultimately the letter will receive two days ago that effective immediately Tim Horton donuts I don't know whether to operates in United does top rates in Canada effective immediately all their big products will be free from any pork products even the glazing some people not even notice that the glazing would also be free of any products and they expertly and willingness to accommodate major religious groups in this country so this is something that may not take place immediately but we can work outwards but if and Muslim investors think that a franchise is better for him at the expense of his Dean or her Dean then maybe they should try some other business they can start independent business if they could let me come to another issue without doing much of the questions allowed my deal with the particulars as we move on and I'll pass the questions so that you can study them the issue of of RIBA and the typical question nothing in this country is free over ever even in some Muslim countries they deal with ribbon is River the same as interest how its defined how could we really live our lives here when RIBA is all around us it is a challenge but again the second typical question what are the limits of Allah what is the beginning point the Quran and Sunna first and in the Quran we read yeah you alladhina amanu talk allaha wa the room about him in a river in kuntum mu'minin' so in lambda farofa then will be her peyman alahi wa rasoi well into Morocco Morocco Salaam alaikum that of Lim you know a lot of them all believers fear Allah and leave whatever remained of RIBA and I'll come to the definition later if indeed you are believers if you don't be notified of a war to be waged against you by Allah and His Messenger man these are powerful terms aren't they had women allahi wa rasuluh a war waged by Allah and His Messenger can we after that trivialize the issue of RIBA how many times in the Quran does it say be notified of a war against you by Allah and his messengers then we read alladhina Karuna Rabelais a homeowner in la cama a community a taaha bottle shaitan minimus those who devour river do not stand except as one who's touched by set instance and I'll come to the rest of the a I wanna come to another point but then a number of questions sometimes are raised all right nobody denies the quran and hadees the amplified what the Quran says about Reba but his Reba the same as interest the reason for that confusion that in the English dictionary there is a difference between usury and interest and usury is simply defined as exaggerated or excessive interest whereas interested just three is number one 6% 8% but usually acting like a shark a hundred percent and fifty percent and all of that and what some of the people who make this argument forget that the Quran was not revealed in the English language and the oxford dictionary or Webster's dictionary are not an argument to explain what the Quran says because it is not in English the Quran was revealed in Arabic the language it happened with the language of the prophet of Allah and his people which means that objectively speaking we have to go to that language and find what the word riba mean there is no distinction in the Quran between RIBA an interest rate become from Mirabeau which means increase and for in fact you find that term used in the Koran in the the in a verb form yam hakalo Arriba why you're a beast sadaqa your be from which conduit ribbon Yoruba sadaqah Allah increase means increase the reward or barakah of sadaqa of charity oh man at item 11 layer Abulafia Marlon a thief a liar brand Allah again in the verbal tease our form that whatever they take from the property of people to increase that this will not increase in the sight of Allah so Arriba means something that would increase means any increment over and above the capital without participation fully in profit and loss a second question yes wait a minute but maybe the Quran here speaks about exploitation but when the bank gave me interest on my deposit it is not really exploitation because the bank the bank uses my money lend it to others they make their own cuts and profits and I take part of that so what's wrong with that is that a new argument we think it's new it's not look at the Quran and what it says about it then it can be a new home color in the man by or mister river well halala whole buyer or Haram Arab that is because they said Commerce or trade is like ribbon but Allah made commerce or trade permissible and made River unlawful another question some people say look even if you look in the Quran itself you find that what is forbidden is excessive River not the small one not the six percent why or because they say yeah you had ladina a man who led a coup deliver Alba a fun mood Rafa takuna don't devour RIBA often twice and thrice multiply it but there is a little linguistic problem here because they say all right six percent even over three or four years would not even come to 100% of the principle so is that a lava Madhava it's not but the Quran did not say don't eat the Prince fell and River at the Armada after it says a river the excess which means the first year the excess is 6% the second year even if you pay some installment the excess is another 5% so over 10 15 years it is aadhavan Madhava is it not the river itself the rip apart over the number of years is a lava mother-effing but more importantly than this argument in fact is that this is a figure of speech in the Quran which is meant to dry up to make things look bad in the eyes of people not to say that a small amount is permissible example when for example the Quran says let Oklahoma ty Atacama allenbury in Arad not a hassanein don't force your girls in prostitution if they want to remain chaste that means if they don't want to remain chaste it's okay to have the prostitution as a trait obviously not but to show how bad it is how bad it is does not mean that the smaller amount is tolerated or acceptable now we come to the realities applications what can a Muslim do well first of all the thing that should be definitely avoided our bonds not talking about shares bonds whether they are company bonds or government bonds because the whole idea of a bond really is basically alone and there is a certain interest that is guaranteed and anything even that carries variable interest still Haram because it's interesting that they say it could be according to the market the market rate is 7% 8% 6% it's still delivered because there is no there is there is no participation in profit and loss they simply guaranteed but then two questions may arise how about buying a car or equipment if you don't have the money in cash from an Islamic perspective which I hope also is a practical perspective let me put it this way obviously and frankly when you say I have to go to the bank to borrow 18 thousand bucks to buy whatever a gym track or whatever first of all if you don't have the money in cash do you really need to buy an expensive new car if you're in the beginning of your career and you haven't got much money you haven't saved enough can you do for the time being with public transport until you save enough money but some people say I work out of town it's very difficult to get public transport I need to occur to have shopping and also other things so the next question can you do for the time being with a good used car I'm not saying a lemon that you spend on it many times what you paid for some we might have had that experience I did want that if you get a reasonably good used car and as you know after three years the price would really go down quite a bit can you do with that until you save enough to buy a better car in cash but even if you have to and you don't have the money and you don't have any person to give you a car the Hasaan which could have been could be done through the various Islamic centres or communities is there any way of buying a car well your brothers and sisters in Toronto already developed a system for car buying you can contact them for details but in essence they used one fatwa that while some scholars did not agree with that some scholars believe that I'll buyer but agile Nadia determined that selling for a term with the increase in price is permissible in Sharia that means I want to buy this house for now if I have to pay cash I have to pay a hundred thousand if I pay on an installment over five years or later or pay you after five you then it's 115 for example while I have some reservation on that because again it it might have some element of similarity with Reba but at least for the intellectual honesty that even though I'm not comfortable with it at least the this room for that in among some jurist so what they do is to let you shop around to find the car that you like most they buy it and then they made an make an agreement with you to resell it to you at a higher price in return for that for the payment on installments or later payment again like I said you might say what's the difference it's not exactly the same like when you buy from the the car dealer who tells you openly the market price is 7.8 percent they have the tables amortized over so many months this is what you're supposed to pay this is a different concept to some degree that is if need be how about the big problem of buying homes it's very difficult especially with the skyrocketing prices of home for anyone to to buy in cash you've got to be a millionaire to do that it's very very hard to do the answer to that question in fact comes from reality and some of you might have been exposed to that already as early as I think was 1982 as part of the Islamic series teaching but brother Mooji referred to which is now available in album 5 of the Islamic teaching series a very simple idea was presented basic notion or concept for people who want to buy home and the model actually was designed without any ambition even at the time of having a cooperative or big organization it is a model that can work even among a few people and in fact it was implemented in Halifax on two homes very successfully and the idea basically is that you want to buy a home that's worth let's say hundred fifty thousand you've got only one-third of that just to make it easy so you need another hundred thousand and you find a number of Muslim who want to invest their money and some halal project you divide the value of your home into shares so 150 thousand means 150 shares $1,000 each you get one brother or sister want to invest ten fifteen five so you collect the amount and pay it all in full okay those contributors for the time being are co-owners of that house according to the their shares then the co-owners agreed to rent that house to you and a fair rental value and I'm not going in details we can discuss it that in question as appealed and the program there is one our description in the tapes how could it work rented to you which means that the value of rent would be divided between you as a co-owner yourself future owner of the house and others but then you are allowed to buy back some of your shares so as time goes on your shares will go up your equity so instead of having 50 shares you'll have 55 60 and so on which means also that your share of the rent would be higher their share would be lower until you fully pay for the house at that time when the idea was presented nobody even could think that your brothers and Trentham masha'allah have taken the basic concept and developed it in a full-fledged Islamic housing cooperative that now has more than 250 homes under it I've gone through it more than 250 homes and it's not really that big cooperative as such a sizeable in one sense but that shows the success in a span of maybe 10 to 15 years the dividend to my recollection never went below something like 7 percent was 77.2 like last year 8 percent the maximum one year twenty ten percent but of course now with overhead you could expect between 7 to 8% that's not determined in advance this is shares in the rental value so there's no connection with with interest here so this is another thing you can establish a cooperative housing here I know that the MSI Muslim saving and investment tried that but perhaps they got into some other business that put them in some problems but I think there's a potential for that it could be even independent it could be even among a few people who can come together to help each other with this like in Egypt they used to have the system because it again I yet they say by the guy like a man you know this this Egyptian speak like that you know it is you say when the we used to have that system that everybody pays I'm saving every month and then give the entire amount to one person who might need to buy something so it comes in turns depending on the need so you can have come a year - if you want to all right I must bring to your attention one thing that some people also might have misconstrued of a fatwa that was issued by the fatwa Commission in Kuwait in response to a question that was directed by Sheikh Mohammed and Hannity I read the fatwa I read the texts of the question and the fat one and the question that Sharon ot asked he said in this country people are reluctant to rent to people with large family or something to that effect and he said the person might have a large number of kids and cannot find a place or could be thrown out in the street and can't live in the street on the basis of that the fatwah said that as you know in Sharia there are three categories there is the rot there is had yet and there is the sin yet but escena that means in the degree of needs of people there are the Rewa which has been absolute necessity like life saving things that's why the Quran for example allowed eating pork if a person is going to die unless he eats that's the only food available absolute necessity or using some form of anaesthesia for operations whatever that's for saving person's life or in sailing the pressure from injury or extended disease but this is the highest and then there's had yet things that are needed highly by people it is not a life-saving situation but things without which people will find that their life are very very constrained like a person for example in Florida having to live in a tent well you can do it in Florida but come to Nova Scotia you will freeze to death it becomes the rora so in other word people also need certain things that might not be absolutely needed but absence of which make their life very constrained and the quran says may you read allahu ta âlâ alaikum feed in him and how that Allah doesn't want to put you because of the practice of your face in undo harsh difficulty but then is there is that CNET having a better car you know enjoying myself and all of this that's additional things that take only a third so basically I give that introduction to give the rationale of the fatwa that they say in that case it becomes had yet if a person's life becomes very difficult and unable to find an appropriate place to accommodate his children and cannot live in the street in that case you know the concession was given I'm not getting now into the recent fatwa giving by dr. Yusuf al-qaradawi I did have some discussion with him after that just to seek his advice but I leave that maybe to the later part of discussion let me move to the third major issue because of time about insurance again the challenge you can't live without insurance here in some cases it's compulsory even if it's not compulsory it is a necessity without which you could be subject to huge losses that you could continue to pay for the rest of your life okay we go again to the Sharia part and two basic points one many scholars would say that the idea of insurance even though in Islam we don't call it insurance we call it the careful it's not itself contrary to Sharia in imprints in fact they refer to the hadith of the Prophet SAW seldom which is again tough upon Ali in Bukhari Muslim man Tariq a melancholy whare 30 he moment Eric adenine how d'ye and Aleya wa ali that anyone who leaves behind any wealth or property it is for his heirs for his descendants and relatives a song for his heirs and anyone who leaves behind a debt or means diamines family and children who are in need it means then it is my response it is to me and upon my own shoulder upon me I mean the Prophet SAW said which means the state an Islamic state or the community if there is no state would be responsible that the idea itself of the careful and mutual cooperation and solidarity is Islamic in nature but then without getting into great details because each of these topics you can go on forever we have to make a distinction between insurance on property and maybe by analogy maybe health insurance or medication on one hand and life insurance on the question of property insurance according to the dr. Khaled Ali that there is a form acceptable in fact known as the bad rubbish uttered a word which means donation on condition of compensation and while the system in its perfect Islamic form does not exist at least in North America it is his opinion that especially cooperative insurance on property in this country would be the closest to that and obviously the insurance on liability for the car that's compulsive he can't even drive the car without having that and if you don't you could be really in grave trouble I remember hearing doctor car we also indicating that preservation or protection safeguarding of the property or wealth is one of the five major objectives of Sharia anyway and he says suppose a person have a home and he borrowed money even thought the husband or have a system whatever Islamic acceptable system suppose even know Reba is involved and then one night the whole house is burnt to ashes the person would be in debt for the rest of his life so there are a number of consideration I'm not saying that all scholars agree with that but I think I would be more inclined to dr. Cardell is position on this on the life insurance however there are some scholars who dissented from the majority opinion like dr. dark and others and allowed some forms of life insurance I am more inclined to dr. Corrado his opinion and I think if a person really want to have something for his children it might be better to invest it in some Islamic project rather than paying as insurance insurance installment Muslim community should develop also some joint project along that line for the benefit of all now with the remaining minutes insha'Allah I promise to touch on six or seven areas very quickly because that might even save us when we come to the question I'm sure some of those might be raised one rudaba isn't everything you can't really avoid RIBA in some form or the other well in that case we refer to the Prophet sallallaahu Selim who predicted that they will come a time when Reba was so spread widespread that a person who does not directly deal with Reba will have a dust of it are we responsible for that dust and if we were to say all right you said earlier that you could buy shares in companies not bans provided of course that those shares are not an item that are hella Haram you can't buy for example shares in a winery because the major income basically is from Haram stuff but even if you buy shares in General Motors or Microsoft or whatever it's still those companies deal with interest to some degree or that I would extend that question further I say all right even if you work for the government and you get a salary your salary contained in part interest because the government also did an interest everybody does and if we were really to say unless every small trace of Reba direct or indirect must first before anything becomes a Hallel then life becomes totally impossible it becomes closed even to Dorota in that case so the issue then for the Muslim is whether I'm buying deliberately shares in companies that I know big shunt of their income come from Haram or whether the interest dealing of that company is only incidental and by the way I say with great respect that some scholars even with interpreted more strict and say no even that's Haram but that makes it very difficult it is a considered opinion but not the only one for that matter so that's one secondly some people ask about saving accounts I think what we call it what 14k or whatever some companies would tell you that if you save part of your salary the employer will match it to help you also build up some and the problem here basically is the issue of how this money is being invested a similar a third issue because I address them together the question of pension because again in pension you get deduction from your salary it's matched in some form or the other either hundred percent more or less depending on the whatever union contract or system of the company and then this money are invested of course for your future retirement well the issue of fringe benefit itself I know if I don't I know of no evidence that it is Haram in other words if your employer as a fringe benefit say you save two percent of your salary I'll give you two percent as a fringe benefit there is nothing that's Haram in that that I know of the fact that he says that if you if you contribute five percent of your salary for your pension plan and I'll match it with another five again that's not Haram to my knowledge because it's basically fringe benefits an addition and benefit and it is known for anyone in human resource management like myself that this is one way of attracting people to work for you it's not only the state pay but the contingency fringe benefit as some call it even though it's a misnomer to some degree that benefits perhaps would be a more accurate term now the first thing we should try in both saving and pension plans is that if the company or organization offers more than one plan in other words some offer plan a and Plan B I've seen that myself for example in our University in one of them it would be basically financial market or buying instruments like bonds and dealing mostly with RIBA others might have the bulk I'm I'm not saying there's anything that's hundred percent bulk of their investment in something that would be permissible like buying stocks in the marketplace so if there is a choice obviously you should opt for one that is largely in Hallel investment I don't know whether it might be practical I'm not an expert on that in the future to try to work out something with employers even to have something purely Islamic maybe some banks might accept the idea of administering some people's pension funds under some control so that the way it is it is invested in certain Islamic in fact they have been some attempt and I don't know how far it is now in Toronto to have an Islamic RRSP register saving plan where you could also qualify for tax deduction for the amount contributed so this is an issue that we have to cope with and perhaps you need a learned scholar not me I'm a student of the scholars to address the age of suppose the pension is inflexible and only invest in a combination of halal and Haram should a Muslim lose this huge contribution and his riot of those benefit from the employer or should he take it and if you want to purify his money later on he might calculate the amount of interest that might have accrued and give it to charity without being part of it this is I'm not standing here as a monkey but I think it's an issue that perhaps may have some room and perhaps you should ask our scholars on that issue student loans well ideally of course if a person is able to work and study even though it might take a little longer that could be a solution for the problem you don't have to borrow secondly if there is no need to borrow if the parents are helping let them consider that card has and even if the their means are limited consider that card the Hasan to their child if not an outright grant so we should first of all minimize the scope where the person would have to have a student loan I love the person if possible to earn some money to pay for his tuition fees and study when absolutely necessary there is only one thing that I can speak about with comfort but you ask more Lenin scholars about a more complex issue if the student loan and the system it works is that you take the amount of money there is no interest charge so long as you're registered as a full-time student and there is no interest charge if you pay the entire amount within a certain grace period after graduation I have no evidence to say that anything is Haram in that dealing because there is no interest charged while you're studying no interest charged for a grace period so if you're either sure or reasonably sure Allah but has done that you feel that in all likelihood insha'Allah you will be able to pay the amount without incurring any interest then I don't see any problem with that they have been one case that the brother one brother in one of my travels mentioned to me that you could try that as well he said even in one case when the person was not able to pay it all in full he made some sort of negotiation with the government or whoever Commission isn't charged and he said look I am very eager to pay and by the way many of those student loans are defunct they're never collected or never collected in full and the government knows that and the bank's administering that no no that also is it I am eager I'm a Muslim this is my problem with interest and here as a good of show of goodwill I'm even paying this good amount but please if we can negotiate that you give me a little extension on that period so that I don't pay interest and I was told that this was accepted I don't know it may not be generalizable case but this is something also we might look into some people asking about brokerage fees even though people might be dealing and like somebody working in real estate and only take his brokerage fees for selling homes again brokerage fees is paid for a service even though it could be a percentage of the value of the commodity I have no evidence again to say it's Haram 2 more questions how about a person working in a bank or insurance company is that halal in itself well obviously it's not the most ideal situation because the salary comes from money which is largely interest some scholars however have the position that in only in the case where there is no other alternative like somebody having a degree in accounting or finance and there is no Islamic finance company that could accommodate all people in this area there's only one thing that there is full agreement that should be avoided to be a loan officer and the reason is that the prophet sallallaahu seldom when he spoke about RIBA he invoked the curse of allah subhanaw taala about driba the one who gives it the one who takes it and then he added the one who writes a contract involving RIBA and the one who witness a contract like that so that would put a person in a loan officer position in difficulty other branches in the bank like foreign exchange letter of you know other issues that may not directly involve those feasibility studies or whatever accounting in itself is only putting numbers it is at least you can say makrooh but to say definitively it's haram it's an issue that perhaps scholars could differ on that but there may be some room for that and finally what happened if I put my money in the bank and they added interest I did not seek it what should I do with that this issue this is an issue where a number of scholars including moral animal do the sacrifice and malawi and yusuf al-qaradawi and others said that the basic rule in sharia of Haram money is that it should not be destroyed cannot destroy it but it becomes it come to vital man to be spent the benefit of the poor and need in that sense the money cannot be used to pay traffic tickets taxes or any other thing you cannot benefit from it in any way shape or form you cannot pay it as part of your Zika or sadaqa even but you paid for the benefit of the poor and needy this is in brief the three major issues and the seven other quick ones I hope I did not bore you too much with this but I thought that I wanted this topic or this presentation to go beyond generalities of course we need to remind each other of the fear of Allah we needed to remind each other of the true meaning of survival and success in the sight of Allah long term not only short term but of course as Muslims we have to deal with the realities of our life and I hope at least we started some sort of debate on these vital issues which I hope will be again only means to a more novel object more noble objective and that is to achieve our khalifa on this earth as individuals and collectives salaam alaikum if there is any place on earth where the islamic economic policies are being practiced or is this just all theory practical attempts are made practical cases of success are reported even in North America like I said about the housing cooperative but need to need more need to be done I wish I can answer all like that quick these cars from them is it halal the contract the lease contract itself is not Haram because you're renting certain equipment and you're paying for the utility and then you're giving the choice of buying afterward but I would not extend that to the lease commonly offered by car dealers because it's hundred percent interest based I know the difference here is basically rather hazy but we know that they calculated as such so if you have it as an Islamic type of lease without this shopper it may not be itself bad I see vendors selling jewelry with an eye on it is this around I prefer it not a kraaho I don't like it better just say Haram it's too big for me believe in America some of us are planning to stay here or some will leave sooner or later how do we reinvest how our money how can you keep our money safe in one bank or to avoid RIBA and also we do not have strong Islamic institutions there are some emerging institutions already there is the housing cooperative in Toronto and people can go there also as investors not necessarily as prospective homebuyers there is the MSI that need more strengthening they there is the vital melody slammy in New Jersey which is very successful hamdullah making dealing with the real estate and equipment and there is the Amana fund also which is supervised by Nate it's a different company but supervised by net and they have a board to make sure that the investments are Hallel and there is of course the possibility of buying shares after the screening them as indicated earlier so this might be all possibilities if we buy a home Islamically it will cost us more and increase then it would cause us to buy one with the current interest rates renting an apartment we are paying more than when we are purchasing a home also our taxes which support anti-islamic activities are much greater just relax issue our taxes are used to pay riba two points number one I would much rather have an home have a home financed Islamically even if I have have to pay more than the current interest rate suffice that it is Baraka suffice its Hallel and please be honest Pantani but but if I am looking at it only in purely materialistic thing then if the offer made by the housing cooperative is more attractive I don't go to the bank if the bank is more attractive I deal in the river but that's not the mindset of a Muslim who's seeking the pleasure of Allah subhanAllah however I must say that those in charge of cooperatives like that have the responsibility also to make sure that in setting the rental value or other procedures that they should also keep in mind fairness and making it easy for people to acquire properly I haven't heard that complaint by the way and you came from Toronto so you know I haven't heard that complaint for example about the Islamic housing cooperative in Toronto but like I said even if it's slightly more and at 11 even if I'm forsaking part of the tax benefit there's no problem and by the way for the tax benefit one thing we try it in Halifax in one of those homes and it was accepted by Revenue Canada that for the sake of accounting we considered the income as rental income which qualified also for deductions and it is quite possible also to consider it even in tax systems that do not allow that as equivalent to interest in the site of a let's not interest but if you can say that it like interest only for the tax purposes because otherwise people who are in the same position are benefiting from tax deduction this is something that you could check may become a combined accountant lawyer or a committee of accountant and lawyer to find some way and even getting in touch with Revenue Internal Revenue Service here in this country to find if some arrangement that would be equitable so that those who are financing Islam it can benefit also tax wise some of the people I speak with Americans they say it doesn't make sense to them when we speak about interest they say these banks has to make some money out of you to keep their employee salary and businesses up how can you tell them and convince them about the interest is around for many of those non-muslim it doesn't make any sense not to eat pork it doesn't make any sense to have even a beer very light beer one or two doesn't make any sense for them that the Muslim woman observes her job so what what what were we seeking are we seeking to mold Islam so that God and God it makes sense to other that's different from hikmah the wisdom using terms of using concepts or ideas that convey the message of Islam that suits them intelligent people that that's a definition but we don't have to make everything that makes sense to people secondly that objection here is very weak in itself yes meant to have to to make profit to pay its overheads but that's how Islamic banks operate and they succeeded you see it tell them the substitute Islamically is to have investment banks people put their deposits but in an Islamic bank unlike the other commercial bank your capacity there is dual capacity your investor and deposited at the same time your money is used and out of the profit they make from halal dealings you deduct the overhead so the question of taking care of expenses is there and what remains would be like equivalent of net profit that would be distributed as dividend so no problem with that so we can make sense to it but the principle of the issue of making sense to others that you can make sense of it Salam alaikum just a quick comment about the 401 k plan that a lot of companies have I have talked to a company called Aetna it's a pretty big company in the United States they are coming out with a plan what they call a socially responsible managed funds what they call Karanka and what the reason is a lot of Americans like do not want like their dad may have died because of smoking cigarettes or something so they want to invest in companies that do you know business selling cigarettes or making cigarettes or something like that or in beers and all these so they're coming already with a plan like that and they were basically saying that by by middle of this year they should have it ready so if you are working in a company and you have a plan through it you can probably talk to them somebody and Hum Dil I am very glad to hear that and that confirmed the point I said earlier that you could did sometimes with the short-term problems but long term we should not assume that the reality can never be changed you cannot put it upside down but the reality here if people find that it's profitable it's useful they will do it they as you know some in some Muslim countries some of the commercial banks because they saw the success of Islamic banks is to have departments for islamic investment because they can make money out of that easy to be Islamic it doesn't mean that you lose money or you don't make prudent business decisions ceremony in my understanding the condition for a valid Asian or deferred payment or Islamic whatever you call it in English is that the sitter has to be the owner of the product is not going into a third party for financing at all so if we look at the major car manufacturers and united states like GM for example they are they do the financing themselves in the way that they tell you the car value is cash value is twenty thousand let's say and if you want to buy it in installment we give it to you for sixteen months and it's four hundred dollars a month if you add it out you wind up paying let's say twenty four thousand dollars so actually you paid extra four thousand dollars on the top of the cash price isn't this deferred payment now we can argue how did they calculate the extra four thousand dollars let's not care about it because they could have calculated it in a way that they say okay two point nine financing or 5.9 or whatever they they say but I don't care what I care about is someone is offering offering me a car a car surprise 20,000 or installments 60 months for four hundred a month which will which which means at the end I will be paying some extra thousand dollars can we think of this as V imagine the condition here the way I look at it is the dealer is out of the question as of the picture once we sign the contract there is no one making interest on the way it is the manufacturer which is the owner of the car and it is the buyer can we think of this as deferred payment I think as mentioned earlier that the reason why some scholars had reservation on it and personally I'm not as comfortable with it but I for intellectual honesty I had to say it is like say which I Behati highly revered like Sakurada we said much about it it has some element of similarity with River because even like I say if you have the the tradition and the traditional situation where this was permissible really is that you have just one item you know a tool or whatever I sell it the price is $15 today if you pay me after a month is 17 it was just like a straightforward type of thing did not have the complexity that we have today with the tables calculating amortization over so many months and what at what kind of interest rate so I think what you you said shows or confirms what I'm more inclined to that it the difference is very hazy and I'd rather not personally get into this kind of dealing specially like I say if I don't if I don't have to get a twenty thousand dollar car I can save I can go buy with a good used one until I'm able to pay it or cash I'd feel more comfortable but I don't impose what I prefer myself on everyone else but it has I understood from Utah then leasing is not allowed in Islam isn't it like a form of rent leasing leases yeah it's not allowed then is it permissible in Islam if I understood your question you're saying is our release is permissible leasing equipment leasing equipment or occurred mentioned earlier that I have no evidence to show it's Haram because you're paying for man far for the utilization of the equipment you're not obligated to part to buy it so you have that list for example for three years after that you can buy or refuse to buy so in that case you're paying for benefit that you derive from the equipment I have no ground to say to Hannah salamualikum' regarding the life insurance my understanding even if the scholars who said it's halong it's for term life insurance because there's another kind which I think I forgot the technical word but I think it's called whole life insurance which you pay more but you also invest the money and you can get some of the money back I just want to clarify there's like a lot of thing I didn't go into details but you're quite right there are there are varieties of life insurance plans some of which are basically almost like saving plan you know raising all these questions I believe that the time is up now

Channel: Islam On Demand

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Keywords: Jamal, Badawi, Jamaal, Bedawi, Compounded, Interest, Riba, Ribba, Ribaa, Ribah, Ribaah, Mortgage, Loan, House, Home, Finance, Financial, Bank, 401k, Invest, Investment, Stocks, Stock, Market, Wall, Street, Dow, Jones, Day, Trader, Mutual, Fund, Funds, Money, Credit, Cards, Usury, Business, Commerce, Car, Note, Bills, Payments, Sell, Trade, Halal, Halaal, Haram, Haraam, Pork, Ham, Beer, Wine, Alcohol, Liquor, Islam, Islaam, Muslim, MeccaCentric, Euro, Dollar, Islamic, Banking, Religion, Qur'an, Quran, Allah, Prophet, Muhammad, Hadith, Hadeeth, Sunnah, Sunna

Id: c3P9uyDm1-U

Length: 73min 30sec (4410 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 10 2011