Dr. Mike Eades - 'Does Fat Really Burn in the Flame of Carbohydrate?'

okay first you got to give me some props on the photography here so I mean it's uh it's not anel Adams but uh there's a real story behind this I wanted to get this picture and so uh took about an hour to get it on a clammmy cold drizzly atypical Southern California night in the pitch black out on our patio and as I said it took about an hour and what I ended up getting out of it were about two good shots and a pissed off wife I was the cameraman she was the uh the food stylist the prop girl the production assistant the uh uh the intern and the caterer and she went out and got these marshmallows that were as big as a cat's head because she wanted to be able to see them the problem is you couldn't light the things so we had a fireplace going so she had to run in the house light the things in the fireplace and come sprinting out into the patio which is you know a long way away and she would get out there and I have a new camera and so I'm fumbling with it in the dark trying to to figure out how to do it to focus it and just about the time I get focused the marshmallow would fall off and splat and so we went through multiple iterations of that and finally got this picture so it's a a lot of effort like a professional picture thank you all right we're gonna title of the talk is uh does fat really burn in the flame of carbohydrate this is a an old saying that's been around a long time and it uh is from an old German paper from 1906 and actually uh I've heard from some people that that uh Rosenfeld heard it from a guy named hershfield that wrote a paper in in 1895 I don't know but this is the first time that I know of it's being printed and Hans KB said that this was the first time so I'll go with Hans but anyway you can read it it's pretty easy to translate I'm not going to read the German but it's that basically fat Burns in the FL excuse me in the flame of carbohydrates and if you uh if you look at this here's how they figured this out back then they took fat I'm not sure that they ate a lot of avocados back in 1906 but they took fat and they realized that if they gave people only fat to eat they produced ketones now back then they couldn't measure beta hydroxy berate they could only measure acetone and aceta acetone and so it came out that these people were producing uh ketones in their urine if they fasted people they they got the same result and of course uh when you're fasting people they're eating their own fat so they were on a high-fat diet too and then they discovered that if they added carbohydrates to the mix that the uh ketones went away so they said aha fat is burning in the flame of carbohydrates because they thought ketones were just sort of partial breakdown products of of fat metabolism they didn't realize that ketones were actually an essential Fuel and it wasn't until the 1960s in George Cahill's Monumental studies that showed that ketones are really a fuel of respiration Up Until then people thought that they were just sort of partial fat uh breakdown products and kind of dangerous so if you look at the the modern-day textbooks and I apologize for how crummy this slide is but it's the best I could do uh they say that the the dependency uh on fat to burn uh I mean carbohydrates burn fat is the molecular base of the addes that fats burn the flame of carbohydrate because they used to say it because they didn't really know what was going on and now they say it because of the way the whole uh um um KB cycle and glycolysis works now if you take this cell and going to try to make this simple so one will uh confuse me with Ivor Cummins but if you start out with if you start out with glycolysis uh you know a molecule gluc glucose breaks down a couple molecules of pyruvate it goes across the mitochondria it goes into the acetal COA pool and it gets in there and everything kind of goes through acetyl COA through the acetyl COA pool even our friends the Ketone bodies who weasel their way in through the acetyl COA pool and if you look at this you got the the pyruvate goes into the acetal COA pool like Salo acate that's OA goes around and the crb cycle turns around and it turns off some some high powered electrons couple nadh's on one side and and nadh and fadh2 on the other side and these go into the CIT into the uh electron transport chain and go through oxidated phosphorilation now while we're here I got a quiz how many people recognize this guy how many people recognize this guy well the first guy's intellectual achievement in my you equals the second guys this first guy is Peter Mitchell and Peter Mitchell is kind of a weird guy he's in English when he's dead now but he is the guy that single-handedly elucidated the electron transport chain in the Chim osmotic Theory which is a just a hellacious undertaking if you understand this thing and he thought this up by himself when everybody else was looking the other way and he was kind of a weird guy he was up on the faculty of the University of Edinburgh and he got in fights with the faculty members and he was kind of a flamboyant guy cuz he had a lot of family money and he ended up saying to hell with it I'm quitting Academia and he left and then he thought about it and he had been thinking about this whole electron transport thing and he decided maybe I'm not going to do that so he took some of excuse me his family money he bought glenhouse which is a a big mansion down in Cornwall he wanted to get as far away from Scotland as he could get and this is down in the southern part of England so he took and he renovated this mansion with his family money and he made this a lab and in there he elucidated this whole electron transport chain which is extremely complex and it's just amazing that you could do it and that's how the cell respires when you talk about cellular respiration that's it you get 88 89% of the energy from the cell through the electron transport chain and nobody knows this guy and when I was in taking College biology we had a professor and I can't even remember then how they taught uh biochemistry and cell energetics but I remember the guy say you know there's this crazy guy in England that's got a theory about this that's just totally nuts but there's a chance he might be right he was right and and he got the Nobel Prize for it and so I wouldn't be me if I didn't leave you with the book recommendation so you ought to get wandering in The Gardens of the mind that's a biography of Peter Mitchell uh great guy anyway so infomercial is over we return to our regular programming here so we're back to the uh to the uh oxidated phosph phation phosphorilation so beta oxidation is the breakdown of longchain fatty acids beta oxidation go beta oxidation sends two carbon chunks of fat basically into the acetyl COA pool and pyruvate keeps on going now pyruvate can actually jump in and help accelo acetate a little bit if it needs to if accelo acetate is running low for some reason and there's some reasons that it can run low because it it makes other amino acids and sometimes you need amino acids and it makes them and those are not just the amino acids from Ayo acetate but a bunch of other precursors of the KB cycle that are before uh uh Ayo acetate make amino acids and if they make amino acids they're not there to make Ayo acetate so you can have a a decrease in Accel acetate pool and pyruvate helps u u take up the slack for that okay now let's say that all the perate goes away and we start with gluconeogenesis because we're on a low carb diet or we're fasting and so you you've got to make sugar and you make it from ealo acetate so once again that jerks it out of the kreb cycle so when it jerks it out of the kreb cycle the accelo acetate can't condense with the acetal uh COA to go on around the cycle and throw out the the high energy electrons so what happens well you replace it with some amino acids that's one thing you can do amino acids of course are protein and protein makes makes up your lean body mass so you can lose some lean body mass now you don't have to worry about this too much if you're eating a protein diet with your eating protein with your low carb diet because they will replace U whatever you're taking for alyo acetate unless you're really low on protein too in which case you can have some Lan body mass loss and I'm going to show you this in just a second okay now beta oxidation on a low carb diet you're mainly burning fat so you do a lot of beta oxidation and because you do a lot of beta oxidation you get a big acetal COA pool and that acetyl COA pool a lot of people believe is sort of the trigger for ketogenesis because you got to do something with it it can't go into the KB cycle so you got to do something with that so you end up making ketones and when you make keton we'll get gluconeogenesis out of the way there when you make ketones you first make HMG COA uh which is an interesting molecule and the second step is that you make ketones but HMG COA is an intermediate step in the synthesis of cholesterol okay and so if you go up there you can make uh if you take this step from hmgcoa to to mevalonate uh and then on to cholesterol you've made cholesterol with it and if you are making a lot of ketones kind of by mass action you you run the stuff down the Ketone pathway and you don't make as much cholesterol and that's why a lot of times you'll notice if you have overweight patients and they have uh hyperlipidemia and you put them on a ketogenic diet their cholesterol goes down even though they're eating a lot of fat because they're not making as much and this hm gcoa the the place between that and the the mevalonate is the place that the statins work that's uh that enzyme is HMG coenzyme a reductase and that's what statins block so you can kind of do your own Statin things if you're making ketones because it it pulls the ketones down there oh okay that every time I every time I did this reviewed this talk I forgot to bring that up and that was my carefully encoded uh message you you can go on a you can go on a ketogenic diet believe it or not that's all potatoes or all rice as long as the calories are low if you're not meeting your caloric needs you're going to end up burning fat and you're going to end up being in ketosis some of the time so people say that well you can never go on a ketogenic diet that was all potatoes but you really can't if keep the calories down enough and I'm going to show you a picture a little later of a person that this happened to okay now people say and and one of the themes of this talk that I forgot to mention I should have had one of my little drop down things at the start is I want to talk about how uh kind of behind the times medical textbooks are because that textbook thing that I showed you about the the fat burning the flame of carbohydrate that is from the most recent Berg medical biochemistry textbook now that's the textbook I used when I was in medical school a million years ago but it was called strier then and he's still on the the list but he's at the bottom of the list now uh but it's now Berg and that's the one that everybody uses and it's unbelievable how far behind the times it is with a lot of this stuff I mean there's so much stuff going on with ketogenesis and ketogenic diets that knowledge is way jumped ahead of the textbooks but what's really sad is a lot of this stuff was done back in the 50s and 60s and 70s and 80s and it still is not shown up in the textbooks this medical textbook has one and a half pages on ketones and ketogenesis it has 12 pages on cholesterol so now people generally think that write textbooks that that acetal COA pool that I told you about that was really big in that that last slide that that's kind of the trigger but that's not necessarily the trigger one of the triggers is the brain because if if you're low on glucose the brain has to have either glucose or ketones or a combination of the two usually a combination of the two uh and so the brain puts in a call for ketones now it puts in the call to the liver because that's where the majority of them are made and when when the liver makes ketones and this also is going to show you why ketogenic diets people lose weight a little bit more than those it's not you know the calorie is a calorie is a calorie deal and ketogenic diet you get more bang for your buck because you get a little bit more weight loss and that's been shown in a number of studies and people are are you know trying to deny that all the time but this is one of the reasons that I think it happens because the brain demands uh uh ketones liver makes ketones you get rid of a little of them in the breath and in the appropriately colored urine but that's a minimal amount that you get rid of but what really happens is because the the brains needs and the liver's needs are not coupled the brain needs it and the liver has to produce it and in the process of producing it it generates a lot of ATP and that's the energy currency of the body and so what ends up happening with the does when it produces all this ATP it's got to get rid of it somehow and so what it does is it runs for example it runs a lot of this to the G glycerol 3 phosphate shuttle which is a shuttle that looks like that and basically it takes one product and uses up a high energy electron to make another product and uses a lower energy electron to return it to the original product that was made and in the process of doing that a couple of times it burns up an ATP but no real work is done because it would be like my putting 500 concrete blocks right here and then spending half the day carting them and stacking them down there and then bringing them from there back to here at the end of the day no real work's done the concrete blocks are still here but a lot of energy has been expended and that's what happens in feudal cycling it's kind of like the heart uh is on a treadmill I mean it's going but it's not going anywhere and that's a way that uh that the brain's demands for ketones uh kind of help create a metabolic advantage on a ketogen diet now this whole thing with the glycerol phosphate the g3p shuttle that's in all the biochemical textbooks all the biochemistry textbook but they never correlate with this you have to look up obscure papers to find it or figure it out on your own okay now here's my big buger bear this is the thing I really want to get to this is in the very Brand New Berg book it says animals cannot convert fatty acids into glucose and it says when glycogen stores are low why can't the body make use of fat stores and convert fatty acids into glucose because animals are unable to affect the net synthesis of glucose from fatty acids because aalo cannot be converted into pyate or Ox oxaloacetate in animals now if you've been in Biochemistry I don't want you to get hives when you see this next slide but this is the this is the kreb cycle and this question that is in that little thing that I just read has tormented biochemistry students for Generations they always ask the question you convert fat to glucose and directly to glucose and the answer that you're supposed to give is no and what the the thinking is back to beta oxidation again the break down of fat it takes two carbon compounds into actil COA and if you radiol label those carbon compounds and find out where they jump out of the kreb cycle you find out that one of them jumps out there and one of them jumps out there so you can't possibly get those around to oxaloacetate and recreate that and so the answer is no you can't feed it in through there and get it there but is the answer really no not really and I want to switch gears just for a second these are the fuel res because we'll get back to this other in a minute but these are the fuel reserves available in a 70 the the famous 70 kilogram male Jesus uh the famous 70 kilogram male now this just a chart so it's hard to see but if you look at it uh graphically like this and you see the blood there's very little of anything very little anything in the liver the brain the muscle got a lot of protein that's available for fuel and the atpo tissue of course has got a lot of fat and if you just look at it broken down by fat protein and I mean carbohydrate fat and protein you see this giant wat of fat and you see the protein and then you see a very small amount of of glucose over there and would it make sense to design a system where this is the fuel this big giant column of yellow fat where that's the fuel and yet you couldn't get to it without destroying your muscle which is what they say I mean Paleolithic man had to have his muscle to chase down musk oxes or whatever uh so you had to be able to convert this to uh glucose even if you weren't taking in any glucose now part of this fat is glycerol and glycerol when the when the fats come out of the fat cells the fatty acids break off and the glycerol is freed up and and the freed up glycerol goes into glucon neogenesis so that's one way to do it but there are a couple of other ways too in fact there are a bunch of other ways this is the guy I was telling you about earlier this is a guy named Sam leg and Sam leg was a conscientious objector in World War II and he was working for the Civilian Conservation Corp and he decided that he was going to volunteer to go into anel key Minnesota starvation study and what that meant was he was going to be locked away in the basement of the Minnesota Stadium where the Gophers played locked away down there for 24 weeks on a starvation diet now the starvation diet was about 1,600 calories so it's not you know like 800 calories or anything it's, 1600 calories and the majority of it was carbohydrate it was about 230 240 grams of carbohydrate look at what Sam looked like in 24 weeks and Sam's case was not unique all all the guys look like this and they were all young and healthy going in so you can see that he lost lean body mass and he lost fat and it's because he actually was on a ketogenic di to because his calories were so restricted so I apologize for this slide I couldn't get it big enough but this is just one way that somebody showed in 1986 is energetically positive in other words the things going downhill you don't have to overcome energy barriers to get from uh aceto acid acetate through to acetone right on down to right on down to pyruvate over to oxaloacetate and back to glucose because you can't see it I kind of wrote it down on the right but that's just one pathway that you can get from fat because acetoacetate is a is a ketone so the fat goes into the acetel COA pool comes out as a ketone and then can be regenerated as glucose here's an AR Le uh that was 2011 where these guys went through and did a computer analysis of all these metabolic pathways and they found 22 of them that energetically could convert fat to glucose here's one that was done in 1979 I like this one because this guy injected radiol labeled acetone into into fasting humans and what he ends up saying is radioactivity from the C4 acetone was present in plasma glucose lipids and proteins glucose synthesis from acetone is possible in humans which I found that really strange because this was a human study but anyway uh maybe the maybe the peer review may even put it in I don't know anyway this process could account for 11% of the glucose production rate 11% of the glucose in these people and some of these subjects came from acetone so you can definitely do it this was in 1979 and the textbook are still saying you can't make it from fat you can't make it from fat cuz they're just just focusing on that one pathway now you probably didn't want to see that slide again but here we are all set up with our ketones and let's look and see what happens what happens in actuality here's your AAL COA pool you're making the ketones uh ketones one of which is acetone uh acetone can convert to aalo acetate acetone can convert to pyruvate pyruvate can convert there and acetone can convert to glucose so fat and acetone actually can convert to atil can go into atil Quay so fat Burns in the flame of fat too it burns in the flame of carbohydrate it burns in the flame of proteins remember how we used you saw that the protein got into the KB cycle uh and and got the protein actually converted to OAA and got into the KB cycle so you can say that fat Burns in the flame of amino acids and actually Burns in the flame of fat so this is what I have to say about the whole thing is that you know thank God biochemistry textbooks writers weren't in charge of evolution or we would have been in a world of hurt and this guy kind of sums up this Nim Nicholas TB who's got one of my favorite quotes which is that the three uh most terrible addictions are heroin carbohydrates and a monthly salary but he has another he has another one that I think is appropriate to what I'm talking about right now and it says the problem of knowledge is that there are many more books on birds written by ornithologists than books on birds written by birds and I say the same thing there there are a lot more books on ketosis written by biochemists that have no experience whatsoever with ketogenic diets there need to be more books by biochemist with experience in ketogenic diets thank you very much

Channel: Low Carb Down Under

Views: 75,603

Keywords: Low Carb Down Under, www.lowcarbdownunder.com.au, LCDU, Low Carb Breckenridge, #LowCarbBreck, Dr Michael R. Eades, Mary Dan Eades, Protein Power, Carbohydrates and Fat, Low Carb High Fat, LCHF, Nutritional Ketosis, Ketogenic Diet, Low-Carbohydrate Diet, Ask Dr. Mike

Id: 7MTNJNAZPiw

Length: 23min 2sec (1382 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 29 2017