Dr Alan Reveals EVERYTHING That Happened w/ Panda! | Lights Out Episode 36

[Music] hey guys as many of you will recall a couple weeks ago I announced that we're doing a Smash Bros ultimate tournament for lights out that tournament is still very much happening however it has been moved back by one week so I apologize for that hope it doesn't cause any inconvenience it'll now be happening on November 28th still going to have that $2,000 prize pull available all information is available in the link in the description of this video sign up on start. and uh yeah come compete for a lot of money and have a good time it is once again time for what I would like to believe is your favorite time of the week coming to you a little bit earlier it's lights out episode 36 with e Cosmos and light before we do anything is imperative to remind you hit that subscribe button hit that like button comment on the content all those three things the big three right there the Triforce of algorithm to help push us further into the YouTube matrix and push us further into 75,000 potential Subs that we appreciate but this greatness that comes at a price the price being have to work with these two gyms Cosmos and light how you doing he's holding us hostage we don't see any of the profit margins we need help Patron coming soon how's it going today guys how are we feeling I'm feeling great great feeling great you know I finally finally um now as you can see I'm traveling to Ohio so I'm on vacation he's American again wait wait I could see the melanin why are you traveling to Ohio don't you live there no that that was that was a joke come on okay are you really are you really ready for this episode I don't think you're ready for this episode he's ready I'm choking already I'm not going to lie for everybody who doesn't know cuz there's no way you could know I had a dream about this episode cuz apparently it was just that anticipated that I had to have a dream about this episode and I can tell you that I'm pretty unprepared myself but he can tell you see it wasn't a dream he saw the future and he can tell you that we're all unprepared for this episode well I would like to bring up something that I think you are going to be prepared for my friend and I'm talking about Watch the Throne happening December of this year 8th through the 10th light shines through it Watch the Throne you're going to be competing at Watch the Throne right ooh this is probably the only tournament this year that has announced me and I actually knew I was going bro you could ask Cosmos there's been like three events this year that I'm like wait did I confirm for that like I don't remember but I do know that I'm going to this one I think I think so yeah I'm pretty excited about Watch the Throne it's going to be a really stacked event and I mean I'm going to do my best there I know you going to Genesis black for it like I really want to go to Genesis black but if you can tell by the background setting of where my where my living area is I can't seem to get out of this damn house so yeah what the heck you that even occur to me bro you know how hard it is to move when you have a dog it's like no one wants you I'm like I'm like I have money they're like no you don't I mean I just I just that's mind we'll save that for another wait Cosmos you're going to Genesis black too you told me in a DM that you'll be there so tell us a little bit about that yep I am going to Genesis black um they asked me if I would be willing to go out and I was like of course because you know lcq Cosmos has to have another shot at it so we'll see if I can confirm the spot I am feeling more mentally sound um with how I'm going to be preparing and practicing and all that so uh I do believe in my chances at getting in and I know that Z's going to be there he's probably going to be the um biggest challenge there because mut too oh mut is going to I heard I heard a rumor mutas is going too just let that's great because I actually I like the last couple times I played mutas I was definitely supposed to beat him I was up like 20 and then got revers three and then I was up 1 and a best of three and then was up two stocks and I got like reverse two stock and lost next game so I really want my run back against him too so I'm very happy that he's going to it's going to be a very fun tournament I do believe in my chances and I want to play the people that are there so I know I'm not I'm not going to be nervous or anything I know that they're going to be nervous cuz it's the last chance qualifier spot that's how the thinks go so I do think that my mental game at Last Chance qualifier tournaments is stronger than other players I like that mentality uh a lot and of course we're wishing you the best you know what else I like too guys this episode's guest Dr Allen formerly of panda Global or Panda before it was defunct will be joining us momentarily but we can't just jump right into we got to preheat the oven a little bit we got for that by the way let's get let's get this out the way why why did you leak it leak what you leaked it that Pand that Allan was GNA be here yeah I announced all of our guests before they come on the show it's a precursor so that people will want [ __ ] do you watch the content we got we got to have a surprise every once in a while you know I just think that I think the surprise would been crazy you we do have a surprise the surprise is that one of us is going to be here that's a surprise every podcast I just think that it could have been a little more crazy it be like what you know like I just I just think it could have been crazy you know maybe we I will consider that going forward but I thought it I just thought it made sense to announce it's a big it's a big Time guest wanted people to know what's coming to them that's all well sock right in and now it's all ulate we thought that was pretty cool I'm just saying but anyways fair enough like everyone is here stuff oh yeah that's right that's true any but anyways anyways stop trying to divert the conversation from you big man cuz you were at a tournament this past weekend and did not win can you explain what happened okay in my defense I don't have a defense there's no defense I I went to a tournament um I went there for one reason it was a very simple reason wanted to beat the crap out of web JP because Webb beat me at um let's make moves Miami and I was very excited to get my run back because you guys all know that I have my John's that are legitimate and I've been playing the game a lot and when people beat me and I think it's BS I tend to track you down I tend to hunt you like Craven I don't really care I become obsessive I want to win that's like one of my that's the thing my ego does so like a bunch of red fls right now I am a good I'm a good boyfriend I'm a good boyfriend we're done no so anyways he beat me there uh literally a few days after uh I lost to web at let's make Mo Miami I played him on Wi-Fi because I wanted to fight him and I kind of was destroying him and then we agreed that we would go to a tournament right in Connecticut and him going to the tournament actually bought a lot of Tri State there it bought Jackal there it brought um it brought up there it brought a couple other people oh guy guy who beat me at another tournament he's Luigi man he's really good I think he's the best in New York right now not counting zoma so yeah there was a lot of talent there I actually said that was the most stacked event this weekend it was definitely more stacked than LTC and wow yeah no it was a smaller event my sub tournament was more stacked than LTC but we goe we'll get to that a bit but yeah so it was definitely a pretty stacked event but it was just smaller um and I hate this because this happens to me all the time and I mean it with full offense I hate when someone beats me I hate when someone beats me and then we go to the same tournament and then they lose before they can get to me again and then it's like I can't play them for like another freaking year it happens all the time I just got my run back at Jake from Jake after like three years you know web lost early guy guy got like 17th un uncharacteristically and I was like what the hell is going on um I still got to fight Jackal and double eliminated me I'm going to say I think I could have played better versus serup but I think he is the best Steve in America I think he is sick I think he is really good at this game he's very smart and he's willing to do what it takes to win and the reason I say that and I said it on before the podcast started um when I played him in winers finals I'm not going to lie I didn't expect things to go the way they did I wasn't 100% on I didn't think it mattered because I was still playing good like I could have still played that way at a major and have been fine you know I I three Jackal you know I was still playing really good right but like serup was playing very on as if like it didn't matter what he was playing you know he just played very good no matter what and I said it earlier Steve Ms they're just always playing their Sunday Best bro like it doesn't matter it doesn't matter where they're playing they're still playing Steve and they can they're going to make you come to them no matter what you know and it's pretty hard for them to drop those up air like those up air bread and butters or like you when you really think about it everything Steve does is kind of like a bread and butter you know it's kind of hard to drop those things because it's just it's just textbook for them you know it's not like really like a creative path it's just kind of like something you do because you're used to doing it because your whole game plan is making your opponent come to you right know it's just resetting a situation so Ser was playing very freaking good because he's very used to resetting these situations and I don't think he was stressed as all I think Ser was looking for a big win because he got robbed of a big one at Big House in his opinion so like he was playing very well versus me and I'm not going to lie I just don't think I was ready mentally to fight a top level Steve I really felt like I really thought to myself like I'm better than this person I have like a lot on this person but like why does it feel like I'm playing catchup because it literally feels like I have to like keep approaching him obviously because I just don't like I'm playing against Steve bro I'm playing against some very good character and this is not me complaining about the character but this is more so me just saying like Ser play to is Advantage just very well you know he played very good and it was very surprising and I think I could win still I got kind of bullshitted with the ja block I don't know if you guys saw that on Twitter uh I think I could have won that set but either way I think he played very good I'm not going to John about that I think he's the best steeve in America or if he's not he's gonna be very soon damn so so what what was the jab block thing that happened because I didn't see it I hit him with up to on a PS2 platform down here to offit and then I sorry I've been dying for the last couple weeks then um I ran off stage and I Fair dragg down him on the edge of PS2 and then when I went for the jab block he just stood up so when I went for Ford smash he shielded it OB smashed oh it's like one of those ultimate things yeah apparently it's just the specific ledge of PS2 platform you know no big deal no big it's not like everybody goes to PS2 or anything like that I mean not like I live there yeah that's still a good still a good run I mean it's all about getting to practice and then you know Lord knows we need it against good Steves for said he would play Wi-Fi with me I felt really happy about that cuz like again I hate Steve but like I got to get better at the match up you know I I still think I'm better my ego will still put me there but like it just I got to learn how to fight Steve better man that's all there is to it there you go I want to give uh that's how that tourn went I do want to give a little mini shout out to or not mini shout out but just a quick point of order to our boy shadic he won uh low tier City and um I actually restreamed this tournament cuzz I was like it's probably going to be mute vers shadic in Grand finals mute got seventh lost to dark wizzy in in winners and then eliminated by doorstop in losers for seven so that was a big surprise but shadic in shadic We Trust held it down the young goat bouncing back from Port priority 8 to get a win at lower City now this tournament was not advertised well at all in my opinion I don't think they advertised it well people were in my chat like I'm live in Texas and I didn't know about this tournament so that's pretty bad I know people I'm at the tournament I didn't know about the tournament yeah I know people like Lou dropped out so definitely like I think it was like a high C tier but definitely far from uh the expectations of the old LTC ways but nonetheless good stuff to wizzy for a great performance and shadic forgetting that W I always want to give shout out shadik his flowers that kid is uh he's got next if you ask me up and coming yeah it's crazy because it kind of feels like he's just been really really young for like the entire life lifespan of the game like in Smash 4 and smash ultimate and I feel like he's just getting to that age where the people at the age are breaking out like how Spargo was breaking out at the age a cola broke out at the age and I feel like he's just getting to the age now yeah that's feel about syrup I was like how old are you he was like 16 I was like I was I was like I was like he was like 16 I was like still I was like Bro you've been 16 for four years what's going on he's a young gun for sure uh and that just goes to show it uh but I think it might be about that time hold on second I I told you we got Dr Allen I told you listen I had a dress for the occasion hold [Music] on I you didn't answer you school hold on okay I'm going to throw you under the bus right now hold on I had to dress for the occas hold on I to dress for the occasion for this you know we come correct all lights out what's up okay I'm going to throw you on the the bus right now okay all right so I had this idea about like three this is before Allan was even a concept on the show I was like what if we got Allan on the show and then we all just started the episode with panda Global merch like we all just have Panda Global Jersey on that' be great I don't I don't own Panda Global merch so that idea got thr out the window but apparently PHS ready listen I raided Charles's closet before the episode okay he have that no wonder no wonder TSM dropped them they do he was a double agent man I guess I am too don't tell LG baby Dr Allen come on in I'm going to tag him in the group chat he just doesn't join he just stands us up I've already had that happen to me once this week please answer oh oh this man is beautiful damn Allan about to make me act up that's a power to make me act up I might take the jacket off okay I don't know if he can hear us he's fixing he's fixing it hold on hold on okay oh he said can't hear one sec he's troubleshooting he's troubleshooting give him one second give look at his background bro this is Chris he got the hold up I'm zooming in I have so many questions right now Sonic has some fire backgrounds yeah if you look at it at a weird angle it looks like his uh Phoenix right what's the name from the the guy from Phoenix right yeah Phoenix right you J you got oh Alan waitan Yoshi head shut up like Allan talk how's it going guys I like the jacket nice e eat oh thank you come on man you know I had to come I tell listen on this podcast we come correct my brother okay I had to let everybody know listen first of all thank you for taking the time to come on the podcast that is point of order number one number two just off a glance it appears to me your love for gaming has going nowhere that background is sick my G oh thank you uh I actually spent a lot of the last year uh reconnecting with old loves and it's not just gaming but anime uh I spent a lot of time my life really I learned Japanese just from watching way too much anime um yeah so like I am fluent and I just never use fluent yeah I fluen is I mean I can have conversations but I can't when when patients come to me I can't like do medical Japanese that's very right yeah that's hard um but we can have entire conversations and I just got back from Japan actually so yeah you're seeing my new one piece haul over here too and uh there's a law back there as well you know some Buddha stuff as well too so is that berserk in the right in the background oh hell yeah yeah that's it oh yeah yeah really nice statue yeah berserk is one of the I I watched the original berserk as it was coming out the original anime in the 90s oh wow that's really cool actually so how you doing man uh I'm living you know one day at a time uh I have a you know I've got a full plate but I'm figuring out what free time is for the first time in my life I think in my adult life at least I've never really had time to just explore life and um you know I'm doing it man I'm doing it honestly you saying that makes me feel like a bum because I feel like that's all I explore these days thinking the same thing I can show you right here this is uh this is all this year all the books that I've been able to read uh I I forgot how much I love to read you read all them yeah uh I got a couple more I'm working on right now I'm working on we ain't [ __ ] I think you're a bit overqualified for this podast yeah we ain't [ __ ] Bro oh my God the LA I just I'm I'm on the last hour of the audio book actually this one uh Zen In The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and let me tell you if you want a mind [ __ ] that just it it takes you to another level of understanding the world around you this book is it's very good it's hard to find now but it's very good damn now I have to ask was the decision to be able to like kind of reconnect with gaming and do all this reading just kind of almost like it seemed like reconnect with yourself was that something that was just kind of like a byproduct of like you know kind of like the Fallout with like the smash Community just like yeah you know what I mean I mean I I lost everything I had worked on for almost a decade of my life right overnight for really unfortunately that I didn't actually do um and coming to terms with that um has been a struggle um and I also shortly after I you everything went down I did uh I did my own blood work which i' been avoiding for a few years before that all right morbius what the hell what do you think I do true true this what I do for my free time you know I diagnosed I think three people with cancer this year so far hell yeah yeah I mean not like hold on keep going you shut up sorry I'm a little nervous go ahead sorry right go on though you did your own blood work and what yeah so I did my own blood work and uh and I saw unfortunately how incredibly bad it was my hormones were off my vitamins were off my I had like mineral deficiencies I I abused myself as the CEO Panda and also still being a doctor and practicing I put my self not even second but like third or fourth and with everything that happened I had to spend time on me and rediscovering myself but that also came with health uh and and you know doing better for me on that end so you know leaving Panda isn't always is is not all a bad thing I actually did a genetic test recently that shows you your biological age so your chronological age is is how many years you've been alive okay your biological age is a very complicated calculator uh that goes over a lot of your DNA methylation which I won't even bother talking about unless you're interested umed but yeah keep going we're not qualified for that conversation interested yeah so it came back as uh as I'm I'm 36 years old but the calculator said that based on my DNA methylation uh tiir length Etc I'm 42 years old um and so I really uh destroyed my body um I put everything I had into into being a panda into into really trying to make uh make something that never happened before right so is what it is you know again I've I'm coming to terms with it the reason why I'm here is that I've I've uh I found Zen Buddhism and you know I think I can handle talking about things not disturbing my own inner peace anymore yeah because we we didn't um I want to make it clear that oh there's a little bit of echo I think you're echoing I think it's Alan okay how about that just no we're good yeah we just always assume it's it's a tech issue it's Cosmos we all that even when I not about me I've always cat some kind of Str we we love you now I was going to say uh yeah we we didn't bring you on here uh for any kind of like oh is it happening again hello I don't hear it I don't no I don't think I'm just paranoid anyway uh we didn't bring you on here for any kind of like anything like weird or anything like that we I was legitimately curious like because you might have saw that Nintendo put in some new rules in place and I was like H I feel like this is something that Allan had discussed prior to not wanting this to happen and that's why panda was kind of like running almost interference have you seen these Community guidelines that have that are at this time in effect technically yes so uh everything that I know right now uh with the community yeah has been given to me by other people like friends of mine people who you know still care about me and care about what's happening they just send me things they send me tweets or comments or you know this sort of stuff so I have seen the guidelines and um not really surprised I mean uh it's basically everything that you would expect Nintendo to do I'm more surprised I think about the people who thought Nintendo like was gone yeah I heard that some people felt that was the thing and I don't understand where that came from exactly explain that Alan explain explain why the the some of these people are nitwits well Nintendo just takes time to do things and uh from what I know again I'm just repeating things I've been told Nintendo basically shut down their Licensing Division this year this this calendar year and I don't think they've actually issued any licenses until now uh because they I mean look in 2019 when I sat down with the Nintendo when when the Panic up stuff first became a conversation they said to me they wanted to change their approach to the smash Community okay they're G to get more involved and they wanted to figure out the right way of doing it the panda cup was after many years of discussions and and negotiations the the idea that we came to to allow the community to preserve its identity and have its own official thing with minimal Nintendo intervention there was very little Nintendo intervention involved in picup and that was designed purposefully by both Nintendo and us right um and that was the hope was that the community could Thrive under the panda cup umbrella and do our own thing and then when Nintendo would figure out what they want to do outside of that if they even needed to do anything we would have a home and I say we as if I'm still part of the community but that's I think uh you're part of this podcast Alan you're part of this podcast okay that's true you are part of the podcast but that was that was overarching theme of a why we even were given a chance right you know Panda was chosen for a reason because we were part of the community we were I mean I was uh a Brawl player like I've been part of Smash since 200 I don't know whatever whenever the year before brawl came out I think is when I discovered smashboards d smashboard That's a throwback smashboard is a throwback throwback yeah that was the good times I I actually really enjoyed uh smashboard meeting people from smashboards in real life was such a a mind [ __ ] like you know you meet people who are complete [ __ ] on the forums and then you're meeting in real life you're like wow you're actually kind of a cool guy and then they go back to being an [ __ ] on the Forum like shout outs to Mango something's never Chang true I guess still is still the same yeah we'll say it's very interesting seeing your adjustment I mean I think it was pretty obvious to a lot of people like I I don't think anyone would think that like you'd be like in ruin obviously CU everyone knew that you were a doctor outside of the community I'm actually surprised that you were able to balance both of those things in your life but as you make it sound you know being a doctor you actually I don't know how long you've been doing it but you are able to have a lot of free times and do things that you enjoy I think that's really cool that that is another thing too because both my parents were also doctors so I know how like how timec consuming it can be to be a doctor so to be a doctor and to the CEO of a company and like it's very understandable to see how that could have like just take it away all your time because it's already it should already take away all your time to just be a doctor essentially yeah I I would like to point out I would like to point out yes Cosmos your parents were do are doctors that is very timeconsuming do you think it says timeconsuming is having to track down a runaway child bro why is he catching straight why go home to you're way too n I'm sorry I just thought it was funny but you know what I guess it wasn't I guess it wasn't he's doing F he's doing I'm to say I'm s to say I think that e prepared to have you on this episode and I think he is the least prepared for this episode it does that's generally how we operate I'm not going to lie because note no but seriously it really is good to have you on the episode honestly just hearing about what you've been doing your life I mean you explained it very fast in the beginning I think that's really cool honestly I'm quite frankly a little jealous even seeing like your little background stuff but I am happy to see like you're doing well I don't like social media and I don't like like the whole people are evil thing you know I think people I'm not here to point fingers to say who did what's right who does what wrong but I think over everything I like seeing people like mentally health healthy because life comes before everything in my opinion so I'm happy to see that you were able to find did you say a Buddhism Zen Buddhism Budd that's something I've really uh taken to a lot um in the last couple months and and understanding more about Zen and it's its philosophies it's not a religion it's a way of life really a way of perceiving life it's very very incredibly deep it's going on for thousands of years um so you know it's longer than Christianity they've been practicing meditation and and things that so um yeah it it was a struggle and that's that's the reason why I've denied a lot of requests for interviews yeah since you know everything that happened finding inner peace was probably one of the most difficult things I've done um and you know coming to terms with things that are out of my power um that no matter what I say or do there's there are people that will just always think that I'm a liar or a cheat or um or like a Mustachio evil uh you know villain from a comic book or something like stroking my mustache I've destroyed you Gamers yet again you know so something that is so an anical to who I am as a human being because I've literally dedicated my life to helping people my goal as a doctor is to help people and my the reason I loved entrepreneurship and and doing Panda so much was that saving lives is great it is it is amazing amazing feeling but I could create life with panda I could make being a professional gamer or or professional graphic artist or or special effects artist in Smash a full-time gig that was what that was my passion that's what really drove me that's why I didn't never paid myself because I didn't I always said I would rather hire another intern make another dream come true than spend any money on myself because that's why I was doing what I was doing I think and I I'd like to say I I wholeheartedly uh believe that just off of conversations I've had with like other members of like your staff like Keith you know what I'm saying that's one of my boys like he's always spoken very highly of you I actually helped facilitate this interview actually uh happening one thing I really want to ask you though cuz like again you said how like the internet can just they'll always just think you're evil you know if they read one thing just boom believe it as if it's gospel or whatever talk to me a little bit what are some things that like if you're comfortable discussing this what are some things that you had heard that you just like flat out want to like dismiss like that just aren't true in any capacity cuz a lot of people was talking but like I just want to give you an opportunity just be like n this this guy was full of [ __ ] or I made the unfortunate choice of reading a little bit of the Reddit thread that was posted after you mentioned on your stream that I was going to be appearing uh and I talked about that yeah there's so many people there confidently saying absolute lies like like like this is the truth the absolute truth and it's an utter lie right things like the panda cup did nothing but bring a license bro do you know how much money we brought these events do you know how much production value like I I put everything in my state I have no idea how my statement went went across I did not read the internet uh I've been told not great but I had so many receipts there so much evidence that people threw away and I literally disproved most of what people are still repeating and parting but there's also a disconnect where a lot of people say different things because I don't think anyone really has a grasp of what truly happened but let me actually ask you guys something real fast don't mind uh what exactly did I do let me say before we even get to this which I want to talk about this in the podcast and this again is not like a gratifying like oh you did nothing wrong or like people did nothing wrong vgbc I'm not trying to say someone was right or wrong I want to say because we talked about this on the podcast before that I want to apologize because I think if there's one thing that the community did wrong was we made a very super preemptive decision and I think people just responded to a tweet the way everyone would and I'm also guilty of this and I think that was very stupid for the sake of my own community and myself you know I think it's very I think it's very dumb because I think we were just believing whatever came first which is very stupid and I hate being part of that like joint cause and I mean I don't know what would have came after that but no matter what I think something as big as that should have happened that should have been handled with a lot more time and Care yeah so I am sorry for being one of those people who was definitely guilty of that thank you that that honestly does mean a lot um it was very very difficult to see people go back and rewrite history um to dunk on me and my character uh to misconstrue and say remember that thing that happened he did this because he was evil yeah right and instead of the reality of the situation which was never the case and it was also painful to see that happen from former people who I was close with people who I've done a lot for and really done my best to to be a good person to try to help uh had the response not been so extreme I think I would been able to handle the Fallout better I mean I'm the one that usually writes the or at least does the bulk of the writing for a lot of our controversial statements and stuff and having to do the pr that's me right you know uh I couldn't do it this time I mean I was I I literally fled my own home because I was getting doxed the harassment the death threats that's insane yeah my family got death threats people who shared my last name who are unrelated to me got harassed you know how this is how bad the harassment got so unfortunately there's a perfect storm that caused it to happen you couldn't change your handle on Twitter at the time was when Elon was trying to deal the impersonators so people that had Panda who were very proud to be on Panda at that point couldn't change their handle and hide that temporarily until the you blowback stop so everyone who was part of panda was getting insane insane amounts of harassment so while I'm getting harassed while I'm getting death threats while I'm I'm being called things and for for actions I never took I'm getting message after message saying I'm so sorry I have to leave Panda I'm afraid for my life I got text messages from people saying I I'm so sorry I can't say anything nice about you I have a family to think about and a career I I cannot go against the tide I literally got I have I have the text messages here I'm not going to show them because I don't want to yeah yeah no did that you know and but like these were real messages that I got one person even said they were in tears having to Tender the resignation because they were getting harassed so badly the harassment got so bad that uh on our website uh we had a model for the merch unrelated just paid for a onetime gig to boy our stuff take some pictures put it online they found the model and started harassing her for even wearing our clothes once we had to this is before I before to step down I had to take tell them to take down all pictures of people on the website on the merchandise website even Nintendo said the the level of harassment they were seeing Nintendo they get a lot of harassment yeah Nintendo told me the level they were seeing of harassment was almost unprecedent they've never seen anything quite this bad multiple law firms and PR firms told me the same thing later they were like yeah that was extreme and and you know what and I'm I'm obviously not glad that happened but I'm glad you gave some context to that because I think that maybe makes it easier for people to understand why the panda Cup finale had to be cancelled like straight like I know it's postponed inly but I no no okay let me give a little bit of perspective there too this is certainly something that's never been said publicly um so I'm not looking to shift any blame I'm not looking for anyone to be harassed or or or called out or anything okay the reason why the panda Cup finale got canel and and the re that cancellation is the reason why panda is not here right now yeah because that was such a massive Financial hit to to the company yeah um so the panda cup didn't happen and because of course there's a lot of death threats and stuff but we had great security you know we were worried about it and it made people uncomfortable the staff uncomfortable but we could have run the picup theoretically but before I left I said okay let's try to convert it to an Invitational only there are a decent number of players that are boycotting us who would not go to it right but we can use our Sunday venue at least which is very expensive theater we could use our Sunday venue maybe try to get a top eight or top 16 or something out of it you know and and fulfill our sponsor obligations so they can pay us because that $2 million made from the sponsors we had to give it all back yeah you know that million we didn't earn that we didn't earn that because that was the come after the finale right that was Inked the deals are signed so the reason why we had to cancel it was because uh lwig decided to run his scuffed World Tour on the same Sunday as our venue lwig came in to try to save the community but in doing so that's really the final nail in the coffin that lost over 150 jobs was Ludwig's scuff World Tour to raise money for the people who outside of Nintendo have done done the most damage to the smash Community ever uh and I lwig had probably no idea that he was doing that right but what world would a player choose to join a panda Cup finale instead of a lwig event right on the same day that's my boss this is where I keep my mouth shut this is I'm listening I'm listening it's it's unfortunate again there's no malice here there's no he didn't attend that but right that's the reality the reality is if lwig didn't run the scuff World Tour or if he just ran on a different day on Saturday or something there was a potential for pandas to still be around today did you feel there was no point in communicating that just because of the way things were or did you try to yeah no I'm just asking how could you say the Savior how you say Ludwick the most popular influencer the savior of the community is uh is at fault for killing for the final again didn't cause it but he was the final nail in the coffin for panda to go under by accident by accident I don't mean like I meant like was there ever like a a direct communication between you two no because you just figured it wasn't worth it the last message I I exchanged with lwig was I sent him a few days prior to everything that happened a a big invite to say hey I would love to put you in the VIP room come out it's in Downtown LA we'd love to have you you don't we're not asking for anything just come and enjoy yourself uh and then here's a response that DM was bro after everything that came out that was the last message I exchanged to love again I wasn't CEO there was a there's a transition of power uh like there was nobody there to message lewick right so would he have listened to us I have no idea man I I will say that I honestly you know I've gotten a and I I worked to scuff World Tour I I didn't know any of this this stuff uh like yeah obviously I just said right I'm not blaming L either I I think L's a great guy I like l a lot and I think had he been aware like if if I if this happens like this could this could be kind of what makes or breaks like Handa and then people's jobs I fully believe it would have been just another day but like with everything going on it's like it's just it's so much to have to balance and it it's very unfortunate uh that that was the case for sure like I always appreciate anybody who does stuff for the community uh it just it those circumstances are just unfortunate like it just that really is what it is like unfortunate it's like the word I would I would pair with that um it was a perfect storm yeah we had a company we had something very special with panda um and it was like all these little things that all came together to create the storm um and I unfortunately also pulled up the stream chat so someone says down with L please no again calm down Jim had the best intentions he had no idea he had no idea yeah exactly yeah no one's blaming L let's get it straight L's a friend to us in the show blaming L yeah obviously I I call myself look Allan you might know this I call myself L [ __ ] for a reason okay that's my boy so it's all good over there but with that said could is it could you tell us what if the panda cup had ran without a hitch with no problems at all can you tell us what we could have expected cuz I've heard so many rumors about what could have been like celebrity appearances and stuff like can you tell us what we could have expected oh yeah we were working on uh Anamanaguchi uh we were talking to them to create the theme song of the 2023 uh like I I really loved the World's theme stuff League of Legends did I want to bring a little bit of that element and they're huge smash fans uh they were uh you know stoked about the idea but we just had to get the ne negotiation done um yeah so that 2023 that leak of that deck that that one person did someone sent that to me that's real it's an old deck little slightly older I can probably pinpoint exactly who was the leaker because I sent different ones to different people um I don't care I guess it was discredited because of the last tweet where they said that super smashcon got C indeed and someone from Smash gon said no they didn't um which to the best of my knowledge they did not get ceent assist this year they did get the same thing lwood got the notice of copyright infringement or something that lwi made a video on yeah he got that uh as part of his event and as far as I know all he had to do was not use Frozen stadium and he was fine um smash I think was more intense than that so they did receive notice from Nintendo of infringment uh again to the best of my knowledge um but so that discreditation isn't it was just a minor thing they disced the whole thing over that but that's true so the so 2023 was going to be two circuits we're gonna have a summer season and a winter season okay we' already booked the summer finale the summer finale was going to be in Downtown LA or downtown excuse Seattle downtown Seattle and we had booked actually for Sunday ban Royal Hall and wait wait I thought it was La I I remember my hotel was in LA year okay got you got go ah go yeah so the next year the summer finals I hadn't figured out the name exactly I was I was leading toward summer finale but I didn't want a summer finale and a grand finale right I wanted like something else a summer split sort of thing but not quite so we were still ironing out the the the details of it so the summer finals was going to be in downtown Seattle and it was going to have uh uh we already booked the venues for this so this is another build that Panda had to pay uh that couldn't pay because no no money from sponsors anymore um but we also had Ben Royal Hall on that Sunday Ben Royal Hall is a big Symphony Hall and it's actually where uh DOTA 2's International 2 was held and so that that's was going to be in that uh in that Hall and it would have been a I think it would have been a phenomenal event we're still deciding what to do for the winner uh if we want to stay in La we're going to let the finale happen in the first the first finale happened and then decided we want to stay there or not after that point uh the date was not a date we chose uh I got forced onto that date because I had a date on the private calendar and then smash Roll tour booked over me and I didn't want to compete with them so I moved to the week before Christmas which is not historically a very good date um but I was making the best of it I was actually kind of excited about it because like it was in Downtown LA right next to the ice skating ring and like there was going to be a lot of like festivities there MH uh we actually actually did a uh an ad bu I was the middle of finalizing ad bu so there there's digital Billboards that were in Downtown LA and there was going to be advertisements for pan finale there oh and the finale was an open Event free to enter no spectator fee so we wanted people off the street to come in and discover smash for the first time that was that was one of the big goals and you know we want to we want to spread the love uh of Smash um and uh and really remove the barrier to entry because that was a big thing I did was try to remove as many barriers to entry as possible so we also had a lot of other fun things planned for 2023 um we had technology we never were able to roll out um there's something called the danger gauge I don't know if I ever showed this to you the danger gauge talk to me yeah all right we could have used that yeah right so it is uh it is a uh machine learning we were still working the technology it wasn't perfect yet but it was working uh we had a machine learning computer vision technology so it could read a game of Smash as it was happening my theory was that smash is the easiest ort to watch in the world but you can make it even easier by contextualizing every moment uh and I was like you know when you watch poker you ever watch poker on ESPN I I do I watch poker yeah this would be crazy when you watch poker you have no idea what the hell's going on unless you look at that percentage win rate on the side right all of a sudden when you see that you could appreciate the deeper game at Play here so we I I brought this concept to my engineering team and they were able to create uh an amazing tool they're very very skilled team by the way uh based off my idea the danger gauge would show at any given time the danger someone is could be koed at that given moment and it would fluctuate based on their percentage the matchups so this danger gauge could actually tell what match up they were in the stage size damn where they were positionally on the stage so if you're closer to the edge your danger gauge will go up oh God it's stuff like that that contextualize watching smash to a spectator and be like oh man there and like because what is a 100 mean if you're Jigglypuff what does a 100 mean if you are Bowser those are completely different numbers right right and I do feel like that's also one of the um barriers because a lot of people are like isn't like the higher number is supposed to be better like no the higher number supposed to be worse like that would just eliminate that barrier so we actually have the technology working melee was was a was the hardest one to get it to get it working because we had to also program in combos so like at what point could a drill wave shine up smash kill someone versus just an up smash like an ultimate um he stage no he's in danger yeah it was it was working and actually have a video where of the danger gauge uh working um was this ever public nope nobody ever knew about this nope wow just internally okay these were things we working on at Panda because at Panda the concept was we wanted to move every barrier to entry of watching competitive smash to create as large of a fan base as possible the more fans there are the more successful everyone is you know players get more people watching their streams uh you know the tournaments get more Spectators as well uh you know the sponsors are Happ like everyone is happier with more fans there's no downside to more fans so I mean I I convinced investors to let me spend over $1.5 million making a GameCube controller like the panda controller the biggest barriers of Entry was you can't find a controller right and one of my investors tried to buy find find a game controller for her son couldn't find couldn't find one she struggled to find a game controller so she understood that and allowed me to spend that much money on a game control which no one like that was a big point of contention with me raising money a lot of people did not like the fact we were doing a controller um but I believe in the project and you know based on you know how the kickstarter did I think I made the right choice is Allan that Kickstarter was beyond successful like I it crossed the million dollar Mark right uh within 24 hours I think yeah within 24 that's insane right and then I remember like it you had to eventually like kind of refund the money right you had to refund the money if I'm not mistaken right now what was the real reason behind that cuz I okay cuz like before I remember reading it was something about manufacturers and China couldn't produce it or something like that true there was never a lie there okay okay it actually took 20 days for us to come to that statement along with side Nintendo yeah um because after the third day they wanted us to take it down um and we would have but they said wait until we get the statement to together so you knew oh wow that sucks if you noticed no one tweeted about it no one talked about on any social medias yeah uh after the third day now Nintendo didn't say don't do it to clarify they just said we want you to go through our Licensing Division first okay got you gotta and there was a little bit of wires wires getting crossed because I explained when I explained to them what we were doing the point of the kickstarter was like we need to raise money for R&D because this shit's expensive like it's very expensive to make a controller yeah right uh to the caliber that we did and so they said oh okay we kind of understand but I don't think they really understood how far along we were that we'd show the product instead of just talk about the product uh so the again the wires were crossed and said hey look we would be a lot more comfortable given that you guys are our partner if you only really promoted licensed Hardware so they said they would hold our hand and help us through the licensing process that we'd go through like all the other partners that makes sense that makes sense uh and so we took it down uh with the idea that we we would work on it more and get it licensed so we're actually hoping you know fingers cross not we were hoping that we're going to get it ready in time for re- revealing at the panda Cup finale right uh we actually spent a year improving the controller so here's a here's a sound by for you that uh I think might shatter a few Hearts unfortunately so we we did a lot of small improvements to the controller in that whole year of development extra that we had uh but two big things we did number one that we created was the buttons a common complaint was that a lot of people didn't like the GameCube buttons so we decided we were going to make the buttons on a plate so you could remove the buttons so you take off the front shell and then you remove the buttons EAS so you could replace that with a diamond style Pro Controller or you could replace that with uh tactile if you like the mouse click feel or you could replace it with any other kind of button set that you wanted wow and if you wanted a custom one modders could make that we we made everything very mod friendly to make much business for modders is possible and they were very excited about it too from what they told me at least directly and then the other big thing we did was we created our very own hall effect sensors and that you know what the fob is yeah yes the fob has hall effect sensors in the control stick and these essentially make the control stick more accurate and less prone to Decay potentiometers which are the things on the side of the control stick on like those four things on the side of there those are the first things that go out for a controller and make a controller go bad and they wear out over time and you have to replace them constantly so we actually designed our very own H effect sensor that uh we applied for patent on uh and Not only was the hall effect sensor going to be hopefully one of the best in class for a GameCube controller uh and mass produced but we also designed it specifically so you could make it a dropin replacement for any T3 stickbox controllers translation if you have a controller that you were using for years and you want that controller to have Hall sensors you could go to a monitor and they could put our sensors in that controller we didn't want to gate people to have to get a panic controller to get hall effect sensors we wanted that to be widely available and we knew we could get that out earlier than the controller so we thought we could start helping the community and at least making finding decent controllers or repairing controllers infinitely Easier by making a drop in all effect sensor for T3 zbx so um so all this that you know the controller the danger gauge the controller dead danger gaug dead it's all okay all the stuff is gone P stats the pgr pg.com oh we had a lot of stuff with pg.com planned too so pg.com my My Hope one of the goals that we're we were uh going towards was making it have um automatic coaching because we had that machine learning I talked about that could read a game of Smash It could we also had a database of all the replays of like all of the best players right so it would go through the database and then you could upload a game let's say your Sonic versus a Pikachu right and You' upload a game to pats.com you upload game p.com I look I'm looking at at a [ __ ] Spiel behind e all right like mind so uh you know you you upload that game to the system the system would read your game the AI would read your game that's happening right there and then compare against every other top Sonic versus Pikachu matchups in its database and say Hey you Shield 50% more than top players do you use this attack more whereas top players use this attack more we had the technology we just needed to finish it and roll it out and we also had to figure out how to get the uploads done that was that server side stuff was uh was gonna be a bit more tricky dude that's insane you put medify out of business no no I don't think that would replace medify in fact we had some discussions with mety about that technology and about using it hand inand with them because it's just automated thei is not gonna make you a better player per se it'll just tell you what the differences are between you and a top player and stuff that might help uh but I think that it would that information could be used by a top player to then explain it like oh you don't want a shield use you use a shield a lot let's see let's see the instance you use a shield you don't want a shield here you want to run back here instead or run forth you know that sort of idea um I think it was hand in hand it's crazy how much quality of life stuff you have and like we' barely even really talk well we talked about it but like you know the tournaments is are everything right but you had so much prepared like outside of just the tournament it's just so much stuff that would make people a lot more interactive with the game and I think that's really cool yeah yeah even the tournaments themselves I mean you guys saw our player cards we designed using the same system that you guys saw our Deep dive pieces so the Pats YouTube channel yep my my concept uh was that stats are beautiful but no one understands how beautiful stats are so we have to show them we have to tell the stories of stats yeah damn that's why we did Pats YouTube channel I gotta ask something real quick which is not really related but um how interactive were you like just cuz I know you were a very busy person how interactive were you with like the people you sponsor and stuff like that I'm just curious of that because I'm I'm in like one of those few scenarios that you know it's really hard for people to like have direct communication with like the top boss you know and I'm one of the lucky people who's able to do that cuz I'm sponsored under Charlie and he's just a really like he has a lot more time than you would think so I'm able to talk to him when I can and so I'm just curious cuz I know obviously Mars being one of my closer friends being on your team and he loved you so I was just always he was 10 toes down about panda oh yeah for sure I'm pretty sure Mar Mars is one of those people who definitely would I don't think he would have ever left unless he was forced to which I'm pretty sure he was forced to un yeah so I just was curious if you ever were able to be like interactive with your team I had to tone it down um yeah making decisions as a CEO is very difficult when you're genuinely friends with your staff that's fair like letting players go when like they were like really actually friends like I used to house them at my H my home my my mom used to drive us at big house cuz big house is in my backyard my mom used to make banana bread for the players and uh and drive us to the events together and this is I mean we're still like we I raised $10 million at Panda spent every penny in Smash but that didn't mean I I wanted that to change how they're treated like human beings yeah that was a big big part of why we started but uh making the hard choices was more and more difficult so I had to find someone that the players would really connect to and I found someone the player manager who who who sort of took my place with talking to the players uh as as often as possible um you know they really enjoyed him quite a bit too um and I'm very thankful for that uh but that barrier was very very important for the health of the company and uh for me to be able to make impartial decisions because I'm it's tough it's tough like letting someone go that that you don't want to let go and you want you want to have faith in them yeah and you've given them you know try or chance for chance for chance and and just nothing ever worked out and you're like I don't want to do this on me hell I even reached out to Cosmos like twice after he left us and talk to him sorry I was I was holding back I was sorry sorry sorry I was I was holding back from the meanest Cosmos stray and I was trying just so hard not to say anything I still I still believe in Cosmos as a player and a content creator if you ever wanted to go ham on that Cosmos I do too I think I actually think Cosmos is the No let me go let me know no no I appreciate all you guys you know what all these stays they're all out of love they're all out of love and I really genuinely appreciate it I genuinely appreciate it I think you could be one of the biggest content creators in Smash and I think you were in that position at one point and I think you gave it up and I understand why you gave it up but I really want to see that consistency out of you again CU I truly believe that you could do it I I appreciate that I really do really really do appreciate that um but before I do say anything because I do have like some questions too but I do want to say that um hearing you talk about um that entire sphere like how the fall was and like how that all went down um that really did kind of that's kind of why I was like a little bit silent for a while because I kind of feel like I was um I could relate to that in a sense because like whenever like Kar got canceled like it kind of fell onto the house as well and like I was getting called a lot of things like I was like getting um a lot of the Flack for that because I was the other biggest person in the house um in the smash Community because obviously sanas was in the house too he had like a million but he wasn't really in the smash spere right um I was getting a big hit from that too and it really it was really hard to deal with that so I really do feel like I can relate with that and I am really sorry that that happened to you too because I would not even I feel like I heard you say it as well that you would not whisk what happened on your worst enemy too cuz that that's genuinely how I felt as as well and like I wasn't even the in the like the highest position where that happened I was just like kind of caught in the crossing fire and it really really did suck um obviously like I'm not like condoning whatever he did because it was really bad too but just being not really Associated to it and still catting catching Flack for it is really unfortunate and to see that other Panda players were catching Flack for that as well like that definitely does hurt to hear um when I when I got the messages of people leaving Panda I told them I can't blame you you have to do the best thing for s uh yeah I even though it was pretty extreme what I received I wish it was only on me right if it was only on me and there wasn't any spillage right there wouldn't have been a boycott you know of the panda cup there wouldn't have been theoretically right a a there a hypothetical world that we're live that we're talking about uh I think Panda could have survived it's crazy because you could even really you couldn't even really do that either because people just believed like even if you were out of the picture that you know you'd be working behind the scenes so like there was like no realistic way for like Panda to survive that what whatever that guy was LG or something uh the guy who I never knew who he was until everything that went down oh LG are you talking about LD are you talking about LD from Summit sure I don't care what his name is um I'm still controlling Panda from behind the scenes No when I left Panda it took like three or four days of transition stuff and then I was out you know that was it um and so despite the memes I have not been involved in Panda I actually not really too fond of the fact it says in the title Dr Allen of panda oh my bad forly of panda accurate I'm IGN you know that dog I'm ignorant I'm sorry wrong what's wrong with you bro Pand still exists it's a skeleton crew as far as I know um like 10 or less people they do backend things now um so I I'm not involved I I don't really um I don't really know what they're up to at the moment I know yeah General High Level things so in any capacity cuz like I mean I guess all this stuff is just defunct like there's just no shout like any of the the product the Technologies the ideas they could never like come back in any kind of form shape under like Panda or like a rebranded band brand like you're just done you're out you're done for good I what do you think I find it difficult like even if everyone came back said we're so sorry and stuff like P the Damage Done To Panda panda panda was like a super DOA Panda was like a a once in a-lifetime thing of of crossing of of incredibly talented people people that don't ever want to come back to smash a lot of them like they were all so burned yeah for what happened the sponsorship damage uh that was that was done as well I mean reversing everything is possible with time and effort but then I have to say to myself do I want to do that I can I think I can make a bigger difference outside of Smash than Le and smash yeah from what I can tell smash is just smaller now there's less to do like lower numbers you know and like I don't want to say smash is dying but it's certainly like agon yeah it's shedding a lot of like its bigger audience and that's while sad and I still have a lot of love for what smash could I have to look at people saying that they can't they can't believe anything I say I have to look at people uh in the redit thread legitimately calling me Harvey Weinstein yeah I saw I was like I was like I don't think they know who that is these comparisons are D which yeah I have to do all that and do does that make sense for me no it does not so the answer isn't exactly a no but more of a what reason would I have to to come back and do things now if they want to revive the panda cup at Panda again which again I have no idea if they would ever want to do that more power to them um you know that doesn't mean Panda can't do panda cup things but also people try to divorce me from everything good Panda ever did which is very fun to watch how like people are saying look all the great stuff Panda Global did we could just do all that without alens it's like I I did a lot of that I give all the credit to my team again they were the incredible people that made my my visions and my dreams come true right and my ideas but they came from me I did I did have to convince investors give me $10 million and spend it on smash on Smash right yeah no no you're no you're completely you're completely right about that it's really I I imagine it's very hard to convince people to get interest in a game that's like notoriously known from not getting support from like anybody so like and everything that's been happen like saying very hard is just an understatement to honestly soy bites yeah once you figure out how Nintendo like you understand their like what works for them and what doesn't work for them we're able to get approval for some things within a couple days like of using character IP which is a usually a big process yeah because we just like Keith actually knew very well what their guidelines were and like would design a graphic and they like y perfect done nice um so like it's not once you it took I mean it took me three years of work Nintendo to understand Nintendo but like once you did well enough it wasn't a bad thing it wasn't a bad thing at all nice yeah I actually think working with Nintendo uh helped our product become better yeah it seemed like a good experience because I remember like every I mean everybody was very like I'm friends with a lot of people on that Nintendo team they're very enthused uh about the project and that's why one of the reasons I thought it sucked that it just everything ended so prematurely uh for sure I mean hey maybe you never know they might elect to bringing some sort of Nintendo circuit in their own capacity back I mean off the work that maybe panda cup bro you okay so this is a common misconception um you do not want a Nintendo circuit we don't want a Nintendo circuit no a Nintendo branded Nintendo circuit will be done in a Nintendo way there will never be a Nintendo circuit with a big prize pool that's so anical to who they are it's against they stand for you can look in their history any Nintendo branded event doesn't have cash prizes it's not your classic let's do orts event right the panda cup was Nintendo's fora into allowing the community to become more official and more competitive and more professional gotcha that was the closest thing you're going to get to their circuit and now it's so you people I hear people say why can't Nintendo just come in and do the thing okay is the most successful game orts in the world League of Legends would you all agree with that most successful I think so right yeah popular yeah yeah one of yeah one of them you know that they've said several times the LCS still loses the money right yeah yes I know now I know that I know that's true yes okay that's the biggest esport that's an esport that has a game as a live service that can sell skins and they still lose money yeah that's what world would Nintendo want to do their own esport I mean if if they pull the marketing budget for smash one day because guess what they're not they don't have skins or DLC poof there goes a circuit like you don't there's so many problems with the concept of a Nintendo circuit that people don't truly fully understand um I understand the desire let me you know without a doubt you want you know you'd love to have have the same thing that Capcom gives or that yeah you know but Nintendo isn't Capcom Nintendo isn't Sony they're not Riot Nintendo is Nintendo and they do Nintendo things and that's why we love them but with the good comes the bad you have to shift your expectations so if you want a Nintendo circuit it's going to be a Nintendo circuit they were down with the way Panico was doing things in fact we were actually about to announce that week a doubling of the prize pool the milk sponsorship brought us a lot more money so we were going to take it from 100K prize pool to a 200k prize pool and uh we're going to do a I don't think we finalized the number between uh5 to $20,000 donation we're going to get a list of three Charities the winner both winners of melee and ultimate could choose from one of those three Charities and have a a like a 15 20K donation in their name to that charity I was going to hopefully have DCF uh like Trevor Project was going to be another one and we're still working at the third we had couple ideas like St judees and stuff so um that was that was that week we're going to announce that because the milk partnership brought us a lot of uh of uh liquidity uh see what you did there we have chocolate milk on site as well just take shots of chocolate milk if you wanted to Allan this is stomach aches in the venue yeah this is probably been like I told people like we were GNA get like some information that I felt like was gonna help put things more into context and you've given us so much more um and most importantly your time as well which I super uh appreciate I I'm I'm out of questions I I've gotten more information than I could have expected to digest I don't know if my co-host have anything else they'd like to ask you before we we let you get out of here um you want to go first the only question I have is um obviously one thing I do want to say is that um I know that you said that you were um learning from Zen Buddhism and I really do feel like I can because I'm I don't really know like like I'm not really like a religious person or anything or like a really like spir like I call myself more spiritual more than anything um and I really do feel like I can feel your energy and like I really do appreciate that the um the energy I feel is very positive from you um and I just want to say that um I am happy that I can feel that kind of energy from you um outside of that I do want to ask U because I know like I was part of panda in the past too um and I know that uh we had a lot of big plans I know Panda had a lot of big big plans and it was very familyfriendly or organization um outside of that I do know that when I was on panel like we didn't over see eye to eye and like we had like some backtracks and stuff but I do want genely want to like ask like what did you think about me as a player on Panda uh a lot of wasted potential like we wanted to tap into you um and that's why we kep find different things we invested in you in a lot hands down we we we to be frank Cosmos we' lost a lot of money on you U because we invested you in a lot of different things and rather than just giving you a big salary we tried like doing different content related things but what we didn't realize and I don't know if you knew at the time but that didn't really gel with what you want to do and made you happy yeah you know and I think that you were in your own path of Discovery at that time as well so um but at the end of the day when we had you it was really just like you're a ball of potential and we weren't able to tap into that ball that's certainly a regret that I have um but you know obviously when you were un happy I let you out of contract you know no you know that when you said you were done okay um and I released you you know we took that that loss on the on the chin right and I did really appreciate that because I feel like that was one of the things that we did um not see or the main thing that we didn't see ey on was because um back then obviously it was like more so like it was right after I moved out and the reason why I moved out of my house because I wanted to be like the best smash player in the world like I know that um what pan wanted for me was like more content focused but what I wanted more so out of myself in that moment was to be um the best smash player in the world and obviously like that's not essentially sustainable else I people people were saying that she was one of the best characters in the game it was working out for me at that point I still believe I still believe some people still believe Charles doesn't I can tell you that um but I I I I do think that um back then I was more immature I do feel like I'm matured more um throughout the years since then and I do think that obviously I know now that like content is more like the way to Sol ify your future because there's no way that you can even if you are the number one player for all time for the rest of your life you're not going to be able to make a sustained future for yourself forever yeah because at some point you're gonna have to stop competing um it's very very like I won't say it's impossible but it's very very unlikely that smash will ever get to the point where you will make enough money from winning tournaments consistently um and content is always just the future that you want to go towards my dream was to build this irrigation using the panda cup uh that's really what how I viewed the panda cup was an irrigation channel so when you irrigate Farmland right you're you're digging a ditch and you're putting water in and the water goes all around all the crops right that was the concept because you know e you're you're one of the most popular commentators in Ultimate right yeah I'm pretty good you are right let's be honest just falling off if you want to get married buy a house and have some kids yeah could you do that right now from the income you make from Smash uh uh that's a resounding hell no which I theorize is the reason I could never get pokey to return a DM Adam cookies working out for you the goal wasn't to Pok man to DM you back but the goal was to get that stability not just for players players were important I there had to be there had to be a pro player like an actual career of just playing like Faker he can retire just playing like he's streamed like three times in his life I don't know I don't really follow that that closely but you know he's just he's Faker right right well MK Lao or uh uh you know hungry box for the L wild depending on who you think the goat is mango or or Armada they can't retire on their uh savings or on their winnings right a football player can play for a few years and then retire and if they they use a money well enough be set for life yeah basetball but I also wanted the the production teams I wanted I wanted people in the back end the people that really worked hard like the toos and and everything like that to have income these permit lose money they do most of them lose money this is so unsustainable like once you actually lift the veil and look at the finances you're like what the hell is this there is no reason to run a tournament none none but they do it out of love out of passion because they want to and they do a damn good job most of the time they give a blanket you know great yeah that's a fact they don't get they I mean they get nothing but flak like being a to online is an awful incredibly stressful thing on social media but they deserve more for what they do and that was the point the panda cup we brought a lot of money to a lot of the tournament not every tournament but a lot of the tournaments we work with we brought a lot of money and and then I have to watch people say that I strong armed tournaments or I threatened them why would I threaten people to take my money I was offering them the okay so again hearsay but as far as I know smash R tour didn't offer the tournaments any money please threaten me Allan please threaten the [ __ ] out of me okay right and E you can you can attest okay so we paid for production for some tournaments that was I think for one tournament like $90,000 bill that we paid for on Panda's end to take that expense off their books we paid for you did you get paid well I got paid it's any panda in event I worked was one of the most well-paying gigs I ever had in Smash my time is smash there's a reason for that yeah we tried our best to make sure that people were made whole that people were paid Fair wages wasn't always successful again we tried our best uh but this was something that I really really wanted to accomplish and that I felt the smash Community deserved and I got Flack from TOS by the way multiple toos told me they were upset at how much I paid you yeah me specifically well I mean they also want to Blacklist you but I fought back Dam who whoa whoa whoa whoa you try to Blacklist the black male listen Okay listed you buddy not joke let let's let's get one thing clear right now you can't get rid of this guy okay you can't you want to know why you can't get rid of this guy cuz I understand no means no I understand what's appropriate and not's appropriate you can get mad cuz I like to joke around and have a good time okay just cuz I don't walk around and stick up my ass okay but you know what you can sit there you could try and you can ski you can plot and you can try and put these new little Jimmy Puppeteer commentators in the position ain't going to happen [ __ ] cuz the events that matter the squad is always at oh and you can sit on that you can digest that and I love that [ __ ] and you're watching right now and you're giving me that view and you're giving me that revenue and your dumb ass didn't even realize it but you're already an hour into the podcast so it don't even matter thank you he said notice how he said give him that Revenue we don't see it all right we're going to figure that out can we start I can I can we G to see this one though yeah you want to split the $50 you're G to make from this three ways there you go man it's like 75 if Allan really this podcast I'd see the margins that's true Allan do you want to come run our podcast give us give us a line to these sponsorships oh my God our podcast uh I I got a lot of uh a lot of cool [ __ ] that I've learned over last year that I love teaching people about wow yeah I was I was gonna say I didn't really I didn't really have a question for you but I just wanted to say like you said you also saw the Reddit thread and I saw it as well and just like you I don't usually look at Reddit I usually see these things the same way you see it where like people will send them to you it's kind of like they kind of like not like force it on you but like they try to make you aware even though you're not looking for it so I feel that and I I hated a lot of the comments on Reddit uh Reddit honestly like tries to make it's like they try to make you scared to do things because they like they they depict people as bad people and depict things as right or wrong because they think they could play God and stuff and I just think it's really cool that we were able to have you on the episode to get your opinion because like I said no matter what above everything I just like talking to people like seeing people's side of things and I like to see that you're doing well and that you're happy with yourself and everything that you've grown through in this past year it's really cool to see that because not a lot of people who were in the position where they got cancelled were able to like bounce back as well as you have and like again I think everyone figured you'd do well because you obviously didn't put all your bags into this because you're a doctor but like even so it's still nice to see you being healthy and doing your thing I think that comes before everything it doesn't matter what kind of person you are I like to see people alive and happy and healthy so I'm very happy to see you like that but what sucks is the people who didn't land on their feet after Pand you know yeah didn't get jobs um you know I really cared a lot about my team I have a lot of regrets certainly about the things that happened how they happened I mean a huge gr of mine is um I don't think anyone really knows this uh business is difficult um and there's a lot of weird nuances in business so uh in early 20202 no yeah 2022 early um we had secured some another like $1.3 million or something to come into the company uh from investors and um we also had some sponsorship money that was going to come too but they're all like four to six weeks away and we just got to this awkward low that has happened a couple times at Panda where the cash flow was bad we couldn't pay our bills we the money was coming but it wasn't coming immediately and I don't want to skip out on paying people yeah so we're in a tight spot and uh being the CEO is uh is kind of lonely sometimes so I was actually venting to my mom about it and uh and she actually said hey uh I could probably cover you for this month I could give you a personal loan you know better rates than a bank would give you and so you can pay your staff and uh I said Okay I I allowed her to give us a personal loan said to pay the bills until we got the sponsorship money and got the money from from from investors and we I'll pay you back after the finale happens once the once the cash flow fluxes a little bit better right I didn't know at the time but that was her life saving oh my Lord Jesus Christ and my mom lost her life savings um 35 years at Ford as an engineer yeah she was an incredible woman you know before way way before women ever did engineering she was one of the very few uh only only woman in her entire class um and uh and that's gone yeah I think I I lost my life savings too I ped everything I had every penny into Panda uh I emptied my bank account again in like August of last year uh you know for the controller uh to pay the the team there and thinking that it was just temporary thinking that everything was going to work out uh so I mean yeah there's a lot of things I'm still still trying to come to peace with for sure understandable and you know that's yeah I again it is what is and it's it's unfortunate that like I I have I mean after everything that happened I had too much time to think um and I went back through logs I have actually recordings with to's of conversations I had with them I forgot I took recordings of them I have mountains and mountains of evidence to disprove basically every Claim about me I think the only thing they actually said that was real was that I knew the smash tour was not going to be okay with Nintendo um and I'm like why why why bother putting this out there why bother stirring up the ship what is what's the point right yeah I don't to be Vindicated what you know everyone says oh great you know Allen was telling the truth Allen's right I mean sure okay great then then it's not going to change the community Outlook it's not going to help anything it's not going to do anything there's no point in that plus I unfortunately discovered there is a so um there is something uh in in medicine that I relate to this so of course as a doctor I relate things to doctor stuff they're antivaxers right this is pre-co antivaxers right these are people that every year flu shot time comes around like hey time for your flu shot I just got mine you know from the same batch let's let's get it for you too yeah and some people would say oh I don't get flu shots okay why not yeah my my job as a doctor is to oftentimes educate people and to and to discuss with them it's say oh it has mercury it has thermasil or it has this or it has that and I sit down and I show them with evidence this isn't true this isn't true this isn't true then they come back the next time want flu shot yet oh well this thing this thing this thing some new new things they bring up and then I said this isn't true this isn't true uh and I realized no matter how long I spent with these people I literally would spend an hour or so with them they never got their flu shot ever they would always come up with something else some other piece of evidence that that no matter how much data I show they give me anecdotes or say this one person had a bad reaction yeah that can happen yeah you know like and at the end of the day there's no point in doing that and I realized there's a subset of the smash community that is just like that they are like smash antivaxers you know and they've done entire studies on antivaxers by the way to say what sort of arguments could work for them and there was basically I think visual uh like like a video was one of the only things that ever helped but like nothing else worked to convince them that vaccination wasn't bad that do didn't cause autism right despite the thousands of studies proving that doesn't cause autism that's the same thing with smash commity I could sit here showing page after page of evidence hey void and they wouldn't that's all ever think that I'm not a villain they won't ever say that I I didn't destroy the community because that's what they want to believe that's their that is their world view and that's what sort of disheartens me as well and makes me realize there's no point in in trying to prove myself I mean again what value is there in that I think the real value came from what you just told us I mean I think all the Insight that you shed in from like the before the during the after uh just just much to be appreciated and like you know we know our audience like you know a lot of people like a lot of people will give you the benefit of the doubt they will believe you there'll be some people who are still detractors who will not you know what I mean that's just the way it is but either way we couldn't be more grateful for you giving us your time because this was uh Beyond informative and like I said dude like I hope this came to you feel like you were this was a comfortable setting for you to talk and express yourself and that that was the goal here thank you I appreciate the invite and you know I'm sure I cause more questions than answers uh for a lot of people but you know I don't if I'll ever be or I'll be active on my social media again I do want to eventually take back my Twitter because like I'd like to be able to use Twitter again but not for smash I like there's like a lot of medical stuff that I really love right now longevity science and and like the Zen stuff too is really cool um AI by the way the open AI stuff that's so much fun I if you guys have followed that at all it's insane Allan of all the things you said today that could get us in the most trouble so we're going to end it there we're going to end it there thank you my friend for joining us and and we'll be we'll we'll be in touch soon man take care appreciate you so much thank you so much man you have a good day all right wow oh man that that was wild like in a in a good way like that was so informative and just so much more stuff like wow I just want to say that that last thing he talked about with like you know the antivaxer analogy yeah I know I know me and Cosmos relate to that on a very heavy level like that hit hard because that was literally like that was my life like yes that's a Verbatim what we live and you know I made a I made like a post well I didn't make the post I made like a like a 10 it was a very long post that I wrote up on Twitter last night like at 400 a.m. right and I didn't post it but like that reminded me a lot of my posts because I think a lot of my fear from like making content and a lot of like the stuff that scares me into making content or doing anything or having spot is that I never want to I always want to like if I was a content creator I wouldn't want to be like an influencer yeah and I think a big part of that is because I don't really want to have a voice where like you get held accountable for every little thing you say and it feels like these like there's just this group of negativity that just constantly comes at you and I feel like that the reason I feel that way is because everyone has to deal with that but I feel like it's very strong in our community in the smash scene and it's very scary seeing that then just knowing there's a group out there that it almost feels like they just seek your downfall yeah and it's really sad seeing that and it's it's scary and relatable seeing other people talk about that you know it's something that scares me I think there's a lot of people in this community that remind you of how much bad you can do rather than remind you of all the good you can do as well right yeah and I think when he talked about that last part that part really hit home for me because that is literally where a lot of my personal fear comes from and like I said Kus we've talked about this stuff a lot before so I know that's a lot yeah we talk about this every day like this is like this comes off as just a topic point but this is like to get real this is a depressing point that comes off in our major talk like in a hotel room and majors at least like probably once a tournament where it's like we feel like we're just scared literally that's literally what it comes down to we're just scared and it's it is scary because like I feel like the way that I kind of live life is how he explained it and what he was basically explaining is that like you can't convince somebody like if somebody does not want to be convinced you cannot convince them they have to be open-minded enough to want to be convinced and basically there's a lot of people in the smash Community or just in the gaming community in general but in our smash commity that don't want to be convinced and they believe something specifically and they force that ideal down your throat and it's like you don't want to be that you don't want to be a part of that sphere essentially which is why light and I are basically scared of like social media like that's one of the reasons why I was scared about like whenever I was being becoming a very big content creator I didn't want to be like in that sphere I was scared that like oh I'm going to be in the in the position in the position that Naro was in or like this person this person I was like I kind of like would rather be a YouTuber than a big streamer where I'm always on camera all the time where someone can just like basically be watching hyper analyze everything you do oh no no no oh that that's going on that's what I was terrified of the entire time and like there are literally like the more viewers you have in your stream the more people that are watching your stream doing specifically that obviously not everybody's watching you doing that but it's not sorry it's not it's not even about like everybody doing that it's just I feel like the community we're in specifically again they remind you of all the bad that you can do and they never remind you of all the good you do and it makes you it makes it feel like every time something happens that it is way too possible that you are also capable of doing these bad things that's literally what it is yeah and it makes you feel like [ __ ] cuz it's just like you know you wouldn't do it but feels like people want you to do it in a way of course they want you to fail yeah it's really depressing because it's just like I hear it all the time yeah but honestly it's one of the reasons I never wanted to even do like the podcast in the first place right and of course my partners convinced me to do the podcast and I'm thankful for that because this is to e in Cosmos this is my introduction to content this is supposed to get me comfortable to make more content in the future but I still like I still get scared of that stuff [ __ ] I was scared of having Allan on the CH it's not cuz I think Allan's an evil person it's because I have to worry about the opinions of people who Paran on each other's downfall and stuff like that you know it's just a scary it's a scary concept you know it's really scary to deal with but yeah it's I I think it's crazy that he sheded light on that because we can't talk about it a lot yeah and I I will say that um I I do think that one of the reasons why I'm more like um comfortable and more excited to do content is because of this this podcast because this podcast is literally like we are the theme of this podcast is teetering the line so like we are basically like knocking on death's door the entire time but we're not opening it the entire time so it's like it basically makes us like okay with the fact that okay we can say this and people are going to think whatever they want about it but it doesn't matter because at the end of the day we are who we are and we will always be who we are for example people are going to look at the podcast today and take it as we think [ __ ] gimmer or something like that but it's that like I love there no anti vgbc here they are friends as well I love all the stuff that gimmer does I've talked to gimer last time I saw him was that rewired I appreciate his opinions I love that dude a lot and honestly he's also just like how PG is for some bgbc being near me help build my career and all that right I love them I love BTS and this wasn't a podcast about whether yeah who was right or who was wrong this was simply a podcast to see how Allen's doing see what he had planned see what could have been or what potentially could have been we still don't know but see his outlook on things and I'm very happy that we did that now one thing one thing that I think is really funny that I will say and I wasn't going to mention it while Allan was here cuz I didn't want it to come into a conversational point but as I was on the Reddit thread I saw people like bringing up like factchecking things we say or like like bringing up things we say and someone mentioned the sanas episode so I went back to the savanas episode yeah right and you know he did make one really good point that really good point that I will side with which is when he was like I don't understand why BTS came out to like basically help get rid of help get rid of they came out to help get rid of panda and then they just self-destructed and they were like they fber they they bed Vegeta and it's like what was the point of that if you weren't going to be part of the community that was [ __ ] hilarious it's funny I do kind of agree with it but either way um yeah this isn't an episode about who's right or wrong and I'm happy we got a lot of these points out because I'm not going to lie that tweet I made I mean I thought about making I just talked about a lot of it now and I never thought I would be able to get that out so even just getting that outf really great so thank you to Allan for being on the show and this podcast was this was an amazing episode it was it was and and I don't want to end it just on that CU I do want to get some predictions because we're going to we're going to talk about this next week there's a tournament happening overseas it's called UFA that's ultimate fighting arena has an ultimate bracket there there uh highlighted players are first CT second gluto MK Leos third Kurama sisy Bloom trick and Rao that makes up uh your top eight seeds uh he's winning just yeah I was going to say just give me your quick predictions on that um you said t is winning T is winning because T wins every single tournament that he's he enters in France why I T is winning I want I want Leo to win I think gluto will win because again if you are a top player you know gluto is freaking amazing at this game and as long as he doesn't get gimmicked he is like the best he is the best adapter in Ultimate he he probably has the best fundamentals in Ultimate he does yeah he does I think you know once again am I gonna am I going to go with my heart or my head here I want Leo to win I want Leo to win head says gluto takes this tournament heart says Leo and uh you know what I'mma follow my heart I'm going with Lao to take this Tournament down I know the seating has been designed so that to avoid any kind of conflicts and they're kind of void explain to me how a lot of them are like kind of interchangeable so it's not like a big deal so I'm gonna once again say MK Leo this weekend I will say that I genuinely do believe Leo will end up in Grand finals that's good I I want him to someone just said that gluto lost a te at porn he got [ __ ] on that's exactly why I think he will win because again he's he's very easy to cheese he is super easy to cheese but once he learns your matchup and he adapts on you he's like the best player in the world bro it's like actually crazy it's a different story him him losing the te is just information for him you know for the next event so I don't think that means too much I mean obviously I could be wrong T is amazing he's one of my if not my favorite Japanese player so I I think he's going to do really good obviously also he's funny as hell he is well we shall see uh what results come of that tournament next week you guys obviously see the result of the podcast today a great episode we covered a lot of things and thank you again Dr Allen for stopping by and just giving us all that kind of a different Insight but if you guys enjo blacklisted apparently I got to dig into that do you think it was the jacket it might listen it ain't it ain't coming off you it ain't coming off I tell you that much uh but we need you guys to keep coming back that's why it's important like comment subscribe you know the Vibes and we will see you next week take care everybody I promise next week there will be a patreon peace peace

Channel: EEvisu

Views: 40,123

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Id: l2DpSz8mpuA

Length: 95min 58sec (5758 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 21 2023