Dorman Lunch and Learn Ignition Tip and Tricks 01 17 2024

all right good afternoon everyone welcome to the DOR and lunch and learn today we're present the technician tips and tricks and with me is Josh Weaver new to Dorman training coming on as a new instructor yeah so Josh will be doing a bunch of this you'll hear me do some of the normal yaking so I am G Trula and he is Josh you'll see this in your handout and again this will be up along with the handout today what we're going to cover coil on plug ignition systems testing techniques with a digital volt meter testing techniques with a Pico scope or DSO and a case study or so and Joe's Electric has some neat stuff we're going to be looking at this piece here this ignition piece right there and um check it out Joe is on Facebook I know quite a bit Joe's Auto El electric yeah right on Facebook quite a bit and today we're featuring this and you can see the job it does and decide for yourself if it's good so far Josh and I like what we see yeah so coil unplug basically each cylinder gets its very own ignition system right now couple of things one you could have an internal module up here so you may not get a primary ignition signal if you have an adapter you can get a secondary ignition signal which we're going to show them right the boots are always a problem always look for the boots whether it's ceramic or Rubber and you all know oh my God if you're working on a Ford right those go pretty much right so any oil contamination obviously you need to take care of that a good little tip is take some tin foil for your lunch and you probably have some right in front of you save some of that take the mozarella off it or whatever junk you got on it the Mayo and the mustard take that off and you can save it in your toolbox and you wrap it why would you wrap it and put it back in a hole you can see the arc and coming across instead of going through the plug it'll actually shoot to the side perfect so it's a good way to check that out and you would know if you have a bad coil or boot now one of the things you know working on BMWs for years BMW to driving machine well if you let those boots go too long you would have to read their service information they wanted the boots replaced at a certain period of time because what would happen from heat they'd break down and you'd have a problem okay now the most common cause of a coil unplug failure is this baby right there the electrodes were wear down right spark plug or a very very lean condition so if you have a lean Condition it's going to put a lot of stress in that coil a lot of stress and be careful now sometimes using like on Nissan we will not put in anybody's aftermarket coil I hate to say that because we're working for Dorman I don't think we make coils but if we did i' still tell you you better use the OE coil on that car cuz you are going to run into a problem okay and dman makes plenty of good stuff but here if you want these things to survive make sure the plug is good so when it comes to diagnosis most common diagnostic approach is to play the swap game you know put one coil in switch it from one cylinder to the other cylinder well hey that's okay right we've all done it if it's easy pretty easy yeah take a little 10 mm in and out there's nothing wrong with that but many cops are hidden under a plenum now what do you do then take the whole damnn plantinum apart you try to play swap you really want to be able to diagnose it right so that takes some time so identifying the top of coil unplug system you know is the first step in the diagnostic routine CU Josh is going to go over he's going to tell you there's two wire three and four wire and four wire and there's a big difference between two three and four isn't there big difference so watch where we're coming from okay so two wire three wire four wire look at that it just said that and there it is right so if you look at this wiring diagram courtesy of pro demand the two wire system here is pretty easy we could go into one of those wires and get a primary ignition pattern right which would be nice if we have the adapter like we're going to use today we we could go right on top of the coil and get a secondary now secondary pickups you know I've done some in some other uh lunch and learns some of them don't work all that well you know one of the things that I always like is the gtc505 but you can't put that to a scope it's a great little tool and I believe when I spoke to Daniel the inventor of that tool I said you know my eyes sight's getting pretty lousy getting older and that little coil oscillation and the spark line the firing line it should be Spar line first coil isolation fireing line they're getting hard to see they are I said but you know what I do when I can't see stuff I take my phone out and I played a game right so he's going to be adding that type of screen he's saucing that stuff out and hopefully that'll be out in the near future you know on that note G when it's you have those potted coils are so heavy sometimes it's not just going on top it's going to the side of the coil to get the best representation of that pattern is possible a lot of guys think you just lay it on top very true it's moving it around you know the old days of like the old GM ignition with hii well it had a little piece to go up top but there were other car companies like Honda and Toyota where the coils may have been integrated inside the distributor behind the cap and you ought to play Move it around game okay and you're right you should always try to move it around and try to get the best position sometimes whether velcro it down tying it down uh ATS uses a bunch of different plastic type of holders that actually hold it there those are all things here so if you don't have a scope Josh is going to show you this here in a second check for 12 volts at the two wire cop connector would it disconnected on some OES this may have to crank the engine over to see to 12 volts if there isn't 12 volts refer to the wiring diagram if you have 12 volts test the switch uh switching signal using your test light one place that you could still use it right now you know test light is very little current flow so be careful with that very low resistance right connect the light to the B+ and with the coil disconnected insert the tip of the tool on the ground pin of the connector you should see the light flash or at least change State when you crank the engine over so this is on a two wire pretty simple okay with a scope connect Channel a to the coil ground circuit connect the low amp probe to channel B select the 20 amp scale zero to clamp before attaching it always zero close so if here's the coil I want to go close to it not all the way back here not when I'm connected close to it to zero that then attach it and you should get a signal going to let Josh take over now and shut my mouth here for a minute all right so the other thing I want to add to G is electrical is 360° so where we start we have to finish just because the two wire coil and plug may be under an intake we could still get to a bulk connector or or even to the PCM if it's easy enough and we could still apply that same circuit Integrity testing at those locations because whatever happens here has to happen down the line you bet so it's definitely nice that electrical is 360° so when you're testing these two wires they have a high inductive flyback takes a lot of energy to jump these coils you should really know what the value input that your scope is going to be able to take um older models are f 50 volts on like the Pico the newer ones are 200 know the ATS is 500 it's nonattenuated um but this is when we talk about what kills coils is this is your energy to jump that Gap so if we had to jump that Gap we didn't really need a lot of energy but you know if I had to jump from here to the other side of the shop as much as my dad body looks like I work out either one or two things are going to happen you better eat your weedies I'm going to make that Gap and never do it again or something's going to break that's true and that's where that Firing Line and that attenuator is needed because you need a lot of energy to make that happen and think about when that plug is worn or something that those KVs are going to go up aren't they yes and that's where you got to use this thing to save your scope you don't want to burn your scope out so a lot of Scopes do not have built-in attenuators the Picos do not no so you're going to need to use it if not you'll damage your scope always make sure by the way that you have a good ground yes that is another thing you know if you have a fluke scope fluke tells you they have isolated channels an isolated Channel with a good ground you're not going to do any damage to anything so here that is flyback like you said and you can get over 300 volts well that surp pass the 200 or the 50 or 100 that Pico used in the past yep so be very very careful with that uh Mr Casey Joe on his website I ride he puts a very good point out he says when you're doing the ignition coil testing you should walk around with your test light to make sure you don't have a secondary spark jumping back and damaging your scope as well excellent now do you guys all understand that so you take a test light make sure you ground it to the battery first make sure it works you know my Snap-on one broke many times over the years so make sure it lights up when you touch the positive side and then as Josh just said Joe recommends going around with the test light keep your finger off the metal or it'll be a shocking experience that you won't forget right so go around and see if there's any stray voltage maybe a coil yep you know when you see that blue and purplish color in yellow n not the stuff I did in' 69 okay it's really that's where stuff is burning out from that's where you're getting coil flash out rather than it coming from where the bottom of the coil to go to the plug it's going to go to least resistance and a good little tip too we'll give you put get a spray bottle get the use that test light or a ground wire on a long screwdriver again keep your hand off the metal bake soda and water and a fine spray what you do is you go near ignition whether it's coil unplug wires whatever then take that ground wire and that is a great conductor of electricity baking soda salt is too but salt is corrosive so don't use that so also the thing we can do with an amp clamp we can see the current we don't necessarily have to be at the coil we could be at a fuse or any because electrical is 360° we could be on the positive or the ground side to see the current as your dwell time comes on whatever is controlling your coil your on time your coil is going to start to build the current and ramp up and shut off when the spark plug's ready to fire and what I'd like to add here as voltage drops AKA dwell as that goes down notice how the current goes up and as it ends from the fire in line notice how the current goes back down so it is a relationship would you just use the the doohickey on it so look at that relationship down and up right and then it goes up and it comes all the way down after the fireing line so it's good to do that and by the way if you get a coil that does not ramp and it just goes up that could be a bad coil MH and we've had some I remember I mentioned Alaska earlier remember working on the emission program up there and there was an aftermarket coil that failed they changed it it failed the emission test because the ramping wasn't right okay okay so we we took a good one versus uh the one that was in there and the ramp in was not there it went rather than like this it just went up it had really no dwell time yep dwell is the amount of time that the coil is saturating so it can fire it and put some good Spar out you also want to take notice to the little tiny um inductance inducting the primary into the secondary windings when you probably saw your ramp in Alaska it definitely wasn't there just shorted right out yep and shut right up very good three wire coil on plugs little bit different than your two wi cuz now the transistor that turns that coil on is no longer in a control module or a PCM we now have turned it into right into the ignition coil itself where we can actually turn that on and off as opposed to externally so Josh does that mean I don't get that nice ignition looking pattern anymore no you do not if you are doing this you're going to have a power ground and a 5volt turn on signal and we're going to show you that because a lot of people don't realize that okay now the only way again excuse me again you can't get primary but you can get secondary if you have a good secondary pickup yes you'll see like Joe's Electric we are on a four we're on this Lexus here a four wire coil that we're going to be talking about now we have a question here uh what about those downward spikes on the end of the car current ramp I've been told that's a secondary issue is that correct so go back to that slide a second so right here the downward spikes not a problem that I know of oh just highlight that so I was talking about right there the bottom part downward spikes is's no problem on this particular setup that we did yes but very deep down spikes of course if something goes way down if we're talking well we're pretty low here on the screen but if we went maybe real low then there may be a problem yeah if we saw probably not much better but say the top one if we were really coming down you know three four lines yeah then you would have a problem yeah so good good question okay did three wire go so how we're going to test this with a three wire we're going to low test because some of these things pull 10 amps so you can't just you know put your lead in there and think that you know your noid light or whatever is a good enough load on that power and ground um they're going to pull some amperage on these things what do you mean I can't I can't just take that little test light or or My Power Probe and and see it sort of flash definitely not well it'll tell you something could be there not not but not enough to operate the circuit correctly always load the circuit up you know if you want to make sure that thing could work may have to put a headlamp or something on there right yeah something that's going to pull that amount of amperage you know also you might have to to get that power to come on it might have to be in the on or the Run position not just turning the key on correct it's not going to necessarily have a constant power there so once we low test the power in the ground on our trigger wire we're going to set our meter to Hertz we're going to put the black on ground and our red connector we're going to nice gently back probe to the back of the turn on wire and we're we should have some kind of frequency or fluctuating because that's your dwell time your on time just like we were so why don't we show them that on the meter yeah absolutely uh you'll be out here I'll go and start it up for you all right okay so Josh is going over we got a meter on on there explain again Josh where's the black wire the black wire is at the battery and the red our lead right here we have on our turn on at the coil we're going to set this up for frequency right now we're at zero nothing's happening say when see that okay all right start it up G and don't forget DC Hurtz [Applause] HZ sorry about that and then we have a fluctuation in the frequency which is showing our on time for that coil and look at the upper right hand part of the screen you'll see Hertz Hertz the amount of time something happens in a second seconds why is this not going to HS there we go right there as we're showing our Herz it down a little bit [Applause] more right there all right and again if your meter doesn't have that if you just left it on DC y why don't you switch it off Hertz for a second and just put it on DC what are you seeing I'm seeing Zero see so that's not a valid test but if you press the button and go to Hertz a few times there we go and now it doesn't hurt it actually gives you Hertz yep so there's a test if you don't own a scope pretty simple test three wire four wire anything that does not have that two wire set right so and by the way two wires are pretty old I we don't work on too many say we never get them in but there's really not many of them around anymore yeah not most of three and four Ford really went to the three wire after the two I know my brand new EcoBoost is three wire yeah well it's a way better way of controlling stuff mhm testing with the scope so we have we're going to put Channel a you're going to put if you want to see the amperage you're going to hook up your low amp clamp you're going to put um set it to 20 amps you're going to zero it near the wire but electrical 360° so we're going to do this either on the power side or the ground side doesn't matter doesn't matter you're still going to get the circuit you might just have to flip your amp clamp around to get it to go vertical or un vertical flip it then we're going to set channel B to a coil signal terminal our turn on wire Channel C to our voltage Supply and our Channel D to a ground if you have that all set up up it should look something like this and the yellow is not voltage drop it's voltage rise not going to have a voltage drop on the ground but we're going to have a little bit of elevated because we're pulling 10 amps as you can see in our amp clamp we max out right around that 10 amps where we said we were going to be we're going to have our constant voltage now we're going to have a little bit of a voltage drop with that 10 amp circuit and this is our turn on wire right here this is our on dwell time as it comes across yeah so the red that's that signal that if it was on a two wire we would have had our ignition yep pattern right but you're not going to get that so here we have the vehicle set up and a little bit we'll get on the vehicle with the scope and we're going to actually show you these patterns live right and then we're going to show you the secondary with the Joe's Electric um pickup pick up one four wire coil unplug it's the same exact thing same circuits as the other as with the other three but now we have a feedback circuit going back to the PCM to let them know that the coil actually fired we're going to test everything the same way or we're just going to use that fourth wire as a confirmation that something happened and this reminds me of an issue on a Toyota hybrid uh Rav 4 that problem you know mice like going out uh under the hood there and staying warm on this cold weather and they like chewing on stuff and when they chew on the wire it doesn't get the confirmation back there so you would think it's just a misfire you're going to get nope you're going to get a high voltage problem because the engine is not running right okay it's a little video on the TST uh seminar uh YouTube channel that I took of a vehicle with that problem and we've seen more than one like that so always make sure you know the most important tools that God gave us your brain your eyes your ears your nose your hands you use them and many many times you're going to find a problem so make sure that it does get that confirmation back yes and that confirmation signal looks this is where the oil fired if you had a firing order it' be 1 3 4 2 1 3 4 2 you know if this was missing and we knew this was one we knew there was something probably happening on on four if that did not fire back does it use a trigger wire on some models to get the feedback Spike to indicate spark happened well I believe that it's one and the same that is an inductive feedback signal from that coil dropping out out which sends that back to the wire I think that's what they're asking theree yep that answer their question yep yep did we all right same thing three wire coil but now we have a redundant ground coming back um for everything is the exact same on this guys we don't have to over complicate this one so there's that redundant ground ground then we have our power we have our power and our ground and our turn on yep yep so we have Joe's some stuff here from Joe that he had sent us and we have these are his noise detectors the left and the right here and then we have a secondary pickup wand we're going to demonstrate that here in a minute first we'll show you guys on the car how to what off four signal wires look like back probed live on the Pico and then we'll switch over to the secondary yeah you ready to do that yep click it I think the next one let's go to the vehicle there live on the vehicle live on vehicle okay all righty let's get this meter out of the way and in case you're wondering you know Joe sent this a lot of people send me stuff and if it's no good we don't use it I think this is a good tool and you let me know when you're ready Josh all right give me one and that's why we're using it in this webinar all right ready so let's just zoom in let's show the fit see if we can get the settings here we have a we have a four- wire coil so we have Channel a b c and d all hooked up so we're expecting to see a power a ground a turn on and a feedback on this car uh if you want to go ahead start that that up G here we [Applause] go so good keep going so what we have on the Pico scope is where orange is our onoff wire that is that 5vt onoff that we are looking at this dwell here we're triggered on that to keep the entire pattern on display our green is our con is our battery voltage see we have a little bit of a voltage drop there and then our ground is in the red there and you see we have a slight rise in voltage and then our yellow is our feedback I'm going to zoom out a little bit here put a little bit more time on the screen switch that and we can see that yellow is that feedback circuit that we were talking about so there's one 2 three four five six noise so we have that pickup there in the orange go back again we have like I said we have our orange is our on time our red is our ground our green is our power side and the yellow is that feedback so now what we'll do is we're going to disconnect the yellow and we're going to switch over to Joe's probe shut it off yep go ahead all right going to get that set up there going to just change our settings around here for a minute really get this down to about 100 for now you're not going to be on primary is going to be on secondary Yep this up a little bit all right I'm going to leave that trigger still on the turn on wire so we could see that secondary good [Applause] [Music] [Applause] yep bring that [Music] down there we can see that yellow secondary it looks like just like our primary from our two wire coil but now we can see it externally through the secondary side of that and it looks pretty damn nice it looks really good it really really look paints a whole picture of it why don't we turn off the other channels just leave that on and what I'm going to do is I'm going to get in there and press the gas pedal with throttle pedal all right [Applause] you can see how that moves yep yeah really a really nice pattern we were both pleasantly surprised really picks up those coil oscillations on the in there as well and you know Joe's not a big company he's a little guy that looked at something and figured it out and makes his tool I'm not sure how much it goes for go to Joe's Electric um I found it through Facebook his links through Facebook yeah that's where I first noticed it as well so he doesn't even know we're doing this and no he does not pay us for this if we see something that is good it gets on here next month we'll be playing with different scan tools inexpensive scan tools that basically could help you as a secondary tool in the shop okay so here really nice setup it you know works on other Scopes besides Pico as well you can put it on your Snap-on you can put it anywhere just you know always remember to have your scope grounded make sure there's no stray wire or stray voltage yeah from a wire or a coil that could be a problem oh so someone put that up oh good old Oscar Gomez look at that he's watching us from California Hey Brother send me some hot weather will you and that would link right to his store good thank you Oscar appreciate that it's another one of our guys he's out there in California and uh runs a bunch of different classes he does have I think he askcar you going to run another j2534 are you sending the heat my way thank you I appreciate it all right any questions on this so far before we go into some of the case studies Okay so good Oscar's going to do a j2534 in Spanish so he's bilingual does a great job Oscar will also be teaching at Vision he is an upcoming Star just like Josh over here in fact they were both in the same hybrid class years ago didn't know that till they told me so a pleasure to work with both of them they uh really do a great job anyway any other questions out there or comments before we kill this and move on okay I'm going to kill it all right think we have a case study or two in here coming up walk through them so we have Jaguar with a night with a nightlight that's that's awesome um this is a car that actually came into your shop correct you yeah was old student of yours yep so here you know it's hard to tell I wish I would have taken a video but I think visually if you look at these you can see there's other three coils here right never mind the other bank look at the difference where the red arrow is and Josh will be highlight in that click it again you can magnify it there you go look at that compared to that well when my student came up with this I was teaching a class at night he drove him crazy during the day he diagnosed it as a misfire code he oil orders a coil from whirl Pac it's a Oe type coil it was it was an OE supplier for Jaguar but not the actual OES original equipment supplier of the par and that's one of the things you got to be careful of sometimes this is a name brand okay not going to get into the brand because everyone has defective parts right just the way it is there a percentage of stuff during the day he could not see this thing flashing but when he brought it at night and before I pulled it in I said let's open the hood open the hood up and this thing is flashing at us like someone's taking my picture from under the hood the coil was no good he couldn't believe it we bring it in inside the bay with the lights you couldn't really tell you know so what do you do yeah that's right you played a swap game right you played the swap game I said hey pul this coil is yeah but it's so and so brand it's got it's no good period and don't always think something new is good we've had OE stuff go bad yeah we've had aftermarket stuff go bad not ever Works yet right you got to test not guess that old Sun saying right so this one was pretty easy because those important tools that God gave us brain Eyes Ears Nose and hands when you use them you be surprised what you find so that's a simple case study let's do another one all right we have a Nissan Versa that was setting a P0300 and a P0304 misfire Nissan Versa was setting a P0300 and a P0304 I think 300s are the toughest ones to yeah so 300s let's discuss that a minute so 300 what do you guys think when you see a 300 what's the first thing you look for let's say it didn't have that 304 just a 300 where are you going to go when you put it in thereand okay it's a random Miss that's correct yep but what are you going to do first what's going to be your point of attack what's your plan okay mode six mode six was a good one history misfire scan tool this fire okay y yeah I like mode 6 is a great thing if it has it not every vehicle dependent on the year y if this was a prean car you may not have it yep okay so then what do you do and where is let's see what that says fuel trims okay check fuel trims okay is that Scott Mana hey Scott got nothing better to do these days you retired individual you um yeah it's a good idea to look at that but is it always ignition what else do you need to do you know if you have that diagnostic game plan mhm we should always start with what what would you do well I'm going to start with a visual inspection just like you're know after your visual what's the next thing um we're oh someone put it right there for us look at that there it is relative compression yep at least do that right so the visual is good because just like that coil firing right there you could see it relative compression if something's low you definitely want to know mode six that you guys had there remember you know it could even be related misfires could be related random to besides fuel right it could also be an EGR EG are okay so always make sure that you have a plan so when you get that vehicle in just with a 300 you know where to go rather than just oh I'm going to put new coils in because you know Ford coils are not the greatest or this car has this issue and another good thing is maybe someone put different spark plugs in yes now brands are are important in today's modern engines okay also do you put antise on the plug or don't you and should you talk a plug or shouldn't you well of course you should talk a plug but how about anti-as now Ford Motor Company says no antias and hell I guess they don't work on their own 46 54 Motors right yeah because those things will break you use copper antise sparingly that doesn't mean you take the brush out and go and there's a Big Blob on it you put a small amount and use your finger make sure nothing gets on the electrode or on the porcelain part and you won't have a problem okay too much is going to change the torque value as well right yep so we don't want that and you know guys that just go n I've been doing it for years it's good enough it's not your fault as o mobile anymore no you want to make sure everything is perfect including like I said the brand that app plug you know some people go ah it doesn't matter you know I just seen that race and they had Champions or ngks or whatever it really does matter what you put in there yes it does so make sure you put the right one in yeah we get back to this 300 plug indexing oh indexing yes yeah so plug indexing you know when I did stuff at Team Talon this was the first time I had ever seen this they took one electrode and they weld laser welded other electrodes on it and put a ring around it okay now they sell these plugs so it didn't need to be index in the cyl so yeah indexing you know you may have to shim it or whatever but indexing is important well when you're chasing heat range yeah you know heat range sometimes we'd go one heat range hotter or colder in the old days can't do that stuff nowadays yeah those days are gone go ahead so 3 and 304 so we pulled the codes and we had a you know just like we said 3 304 but we always going to grab the lowest hanging fruit first we talked about relative compression we're in the scan tool this was a can car so we were able to grab the mode 6 data and we saw 501 hits on that cylinder 4 and nothing else on the other three but before you go further what code did we actually have what DTC 300 yep pending and a lot of you guys when you don't go into generic OBD2 big mistake yeah you always want to make sure you look at pending stuff you know mode 6 is before pending now whatever that number may be it could be 20 times it fails before it progresses it could be five times before it progresses to a pending code a pending code has to fail three times then it becomes the you suck light right so here a lot of people may not look at that 304 because it's pending do yourself a favor look at pending codes before you go into Chrysler or Nissan or BMW or Hyundai or kia whoever go and look at it generically yes don't just go manufacturer wise okay other part is I remember being on this car and not actually seeing misfire data on the enhanced side of the scan tool luckily the ATS keeps um it live the mode six data live and you could actually watch that count up and that's a good a good point so mode 6 most scan tools you only read it once there's only two companies out there currently that read it all the time one is auto Ingenuity owned by Opus and you have to click on that and the other one is ATS where you can click on it either read it once or more and that means rather than the one shot of going it's going give me update give me update give me update most of the time you'll have to drive the vehicle now you know Pete Meyer who also works with us we've done some TST and motorage things live and we had a very late model vehicle where the mode 6 misfire data was coming right up in the B okay okay now Ford Motor Company turns that stuff off because they don't want to show it at idol and I forgot if it was a Hyundai or Honda one of them but it actually showed you right then and there and if you only did once we took off using the ATS uh Ean if you only show Once you don't get any update update so it is good to have either one of those tools we're not here to sell you tools we're here to help make your job easier yes and that's what we're talking about right up here if you could highlight that Josh you see read mode 6 continuous you know and if you have you know Snap-on Orel launch all the other ones they don't do it and you got to keep backing you got to go back all the way out and come back in yep that's correct so so you wanted to show them something on there as well no I think we were just showing them the that we were reading this in continuous misfire that there was no misfire D and you know the other thing here is another great one time to temperature yes right because use your highlighter cuz you can't see my finger yep so time the temperature is important and fuel trim just like our buddy there freezing in freezing out there in Chicago we have power going here want to make sure we're at the right operating temperature so that we're giving enough fuel to keep that up with that current coolant temperature sensor to keep that perfect uh sto ometric air fuel ratio you know because colder engines going to take more fuel you know less engines going to sorry I screwed that up colder engine's going to take more fuel hotter engine will take less Fuel and I think it's definitely important to make sure we're at that time to temperature definitely true so the other thing besides using the misfire um Auto counter and mode 6 data I don't necessarily always believe that's the cylinder that's the culprit because a lot of times if somebody did not do a well I guess we can ask if you have a misfire yeah what do you what do you need to make sure is correct after you fix the problem any takers anyone guys anyone what do you need to make sure it's correct okay adaptive reset sort of neutral profile okay yeah so cam crank you guys are right just different names you use there so the cam crank correlation code Rel you know make sure that is set if not you may get the wrong cylinder cylinder now a little tidbit we I've done this in other uh lunch and learn webinars but on Honda they're one of the companies besides when I'm looking at my Factory Chrysler scan tool back there there another one that allow you to set through the scan tool Cam and crank so if you don't do that you may think you got a number four S the problem but it's not counting the fire and Order correctly whether it's 1342 or some other fire and Order yeah all so always make sure that you have that set correctly so what are you using here so we're using um ATS misfire software the exhaust probe is in the exhaust and then you count a trigger and by looking at the exhaust pulses it'll actually tell you you know a misfire you know the old dollar bill test so we have this right here if you actually look it's actually showing number three as our misfire with 48 misfires but the old dollar bill this would be equivalent to your old dollar bill being sucked back in the tailpipe and this is the tool he used okay so this is the ATS misfire software it goes in the tailpipe it's connected to the scope and the ATS software will show you the problem cylinder yep so in other words you could have been going to the wrong one could have been chasing well I've already seen people chase this you know we'll talk about that coil swapping and it actually still stayed on cylinder 4 because that's still what the computer thinks is the missing cylinder so it's always good to verify and back it up with another test so once again what you saying is if you did not get that cam crank sink right yes okay now again some of them just do it through the scant tool some like the old GM and Honda where you had to race it up and go want to fuel cut off and then it tells you the crank has been learned the Honda one has you A the profile first first then you get in there now sometimes some of the factory tools well the factory tool definitely does some of the non-factory tools may or may not have that procedure correctly okay uh Snap-on I think the last update did a good job on it okay okay so now we verified it was number cylinder number three just like we talked about earlier in the class we had zoom in here behind the yellow you can see the 5V red yep red that's our cylinder four turn on and then we put a 20 clamp around the fuse so we could see all four ignition coils and then from there we just counted off our firing order 4 2 1 3 and we could see right here that we had lower resistance on this Co coil right here and we replac that coil and it actually solved the problem right but from start to finish you could have went way wrong on this without really diagnosing this right you know some people go well you know what do I need all this scope stuff for this is the real way of diagnosing the vehicle and some as I know you know you're not into Scopes yet but you really got to start getting into them cuz vehicles are not getting easier no they right not they probably s become more complex and all of you have the ability to do it you know what it takes time and money right it takes your time to learn it your time to do it and the customer's money and your money to buy the equipment right but this is not in my opinion this is not a Tex equipment maybe Joe's stuff is yeah this is expensive yes but it works and when we do misfires again this this is what we're going to use yeah you don't want to take that back ho out if it's something simple right if you can see something it's all good so here he proves it out and again you know depends where you sink off of is how you going to count that fire and order out you know so I think it's just I bet a seven-year-old can yeah difference man out yep you know the other thing on that g we're talking about scan tools and people that aren't on Scopes do you believe believe your scan tools I don't believe our scan tools no and we we have a lot of factory scan tools and I don't put a lot of trust in them right even the factory stuff I mean we've seen these multiple times where some of the factory info is not correct okay so it's always better if you can take a meter or in most cases a scope out to actually verify if things are working right or not and it's not all that hard once you get used to it you could easily do it second nature okay so we got a couple of things that we need to speak about one is we got pave what's pave pave is online training and Dorman Products uh Dorman training is a sponsor of pave in fact you will see myself Ken xanders and Pete Meyer and Vin waterhous all doing classes for pave and it's this coming Friday you get 30 days and by the way yes you can go see all 20 some odd classes and it's not bad for the price okay it's two days of training this Friday and Saturday can't make it don't worry about it it's got 30 days 30 days to watch it okay so go check that out www paving.com then we got our TST big event Saturday April the 6 2024 we have Bernie Thompson the only place he's teaching that's right he's not teaching at Vision or wh pack or anywhere else he's only teaching at tsta brand new class understanding internal combustion uh then we have my buddy Wayne Colona is doing is a transmission to blame and Sherwood cook who has I forgot his website he has a big YouTube channel couple of shops down there in Georgia really is shop dude he does do classes for CTI and he'll be doing cracking the case so a real bunch of hard cars that have come up into his shop um keynote speaker before he retires I'm kicking my buddy Mark Warren in the butt he's going to retire from WHL pack he will be our keynote speaker you get a hot breakfast Hot Lunch uh you do get a Android tablet loaded with all the stuff on it it's in Terrytown New York you can go to www TST m i n a RS that's TST seminars. org check that out and another plug look at this plugs up the yin-yang we do have a couple of openings Josh and I will be teaching this Hands-On electric class is this coming Friday we do have a few more seats left Friday Saturday Sunday 8 to 4:30 everything that you really need to know whether whether it's a brush up or anything else check it out you can go to dorant trining docomo have upcoming classes again Pete Meyer and myself doing another lab scope class and all that and we're going to be right about on time so any questions we thank you for your time do you think this information was helpful if it was letter A why uh if you think it's sucked you can type in the letter N uh we do appreciate your time if you have any ideas what you'd like to see in the future please type them in I remember someone told me they wanted to see fuel pump testing and we did because you know I can't always think this stuff up we've been doing it for two or three years now I think three years so give us your input and thank you so much for your time have a great day I'm G Trulia and Josh Weaver thank you and thanks for coming out Josh appreciate it have a good day there we go e

Channel: TSTseminars

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Length: 56min 44sec (3404 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 17 2024