Distinguished Speaker Series - Ursula Burns

this is Duke University welcome to the distinguished speaker series please take a moment to silence your cellphone's and any other devices this evening we are fortunate to welcome Ursula burns chairman and chief executive officer of Xerox to the Fuqua School of Business Ursula is a true leader of consequence as we like to say who originally joined Xerox as a summer intern 35 years ago and rose to become the first african-american female CEO of a fortune 500 company a native of New York City's Lower East Side Ursula earned degrees in mechanical engineering from both NYU Polytechnic and Columbia her rise through the Xerox ranks includes nearly every aspect of the company product development and manufacturing supply chain operations in R&D marketing and distribution domestic and global long and best known first for its success and document technology Xerox is now expanding into new spaces by leveraging services technology and consulting expertise under Ursula's leadership Xerox is revenues in business processing Business Process Outsourcing and IT are now larger than those from its document technology business in addition to leading the Xerox board as chairman Ursula serves on the boards of directors of American Express Exxon Mobil and the Ford Foundation in 2010 President Barack Obama appointed Ursula vice-chair of the President's Export Council she also provides counsel to a number of community education and nonprofit organizations with a focus on improving the u.s. education system in science technology engineering and math it's an honor to have Ursula with us today and there will be an opportunity for audience questions following the moderated portion of the hour please join me in giving a warm team vehicle welcome Dursley burns so it's such a privilege for our community to to welcome you here I some roll I see you rolling your eyes that chap intro was like twice as long as it what's allowed okay so I I want to frame our conversation with two quotes and the first quote is from you and and what you said is the accolades I get for doing absolutely nothing are amazing and the second quote that I want to make reference sue is something that your mother told you which is where you are is not who you are and so in our conversation I want to focus on and who you are and what you've done rather than than where you are and so let's start with who is the single biggest influence on you in terms of who you are as a person and a leader yes it always sounded whenever I hear this question I give the answer it sounds real hokey you know like my mother her mother was I was I was raised in an environment that most people would consider one that would be improbable or more than improbable impossible to actually rise up out of to success and I don't mean success in in work but success in spirit and you know dreaming etc my mother we were really poor my mother was single-parent we had there was three of us and her and she may he had zero money and we lived in a really bad neighborhood bad place physically unsafe just really a bad visually on you know unappealing and my mother did not get stuck on any of that she almost it didn't it appeared to me that she lived somewhere else because she actually believed in her head that she had great opportunity to create a life and a future for that was amazing for these three children and she didn't get wrapped up and no money and you know you black we're poor you know really bad neighborhood gangs drugs it was not it was not important to her what was important to her was our education and our value sent and every single conversation that I had with my mother and my in her life she died when I was 25 years old so she was 49 every single conversation that I can remember had was all around what I control so you know if I complained about something human so what part of this statement do you have do you control can you affect him as one and the second thing is so how are you behaving how are you acting if you you said something that she wouldn't have said it a little differently you know prepare you being prepare your life and decisions and everything that you do projected on the big screen would you be proud of it and if it was on your tombstone would you be proud of it you know that act that thing knowing that obviously I'm not a saint you know and no she surely but that we should actually strive for this ideal which is a good life that's a reasonably good life and so she was the most important person in my life and to this day she is and she's been dead for 25 years or so and it's primarily because more than that she's been dead for more than almost 30 years primarily because she did with nothing what I'm trying to recreate with everything and it something's hard so you realize just how great she was right I had I have two kids and I try to raise them with this with this expansive view of positive expansive positive view of possibilities and we have everything and it's hard to do and you realize that she did that with three kids with nothing and so she's the most important person me like so so she was the first mentor leader role model when when you try to when you clearly think about her all the time what do you think made her so good as a leader in a mentor and a role model for you clarity when she was very simple and extremely clear remember my mother used to tell me that in her eyes the world could be black and white because I was always saying you know it's more complicated than that mom it's you know she said you know killing is bad not killing it's good you know there's a whole bunch of conversations about you know under what conditions you do things and what would make things acceptable and she says you have to kind of enter mo this is her life and to most situations would have set of clarity she did that was amazing and her thing was that we had a large amount of control of our life and our outcomes there's a lot of stuff that's in front of you and you have to you know figure out your way around and all the stuff but you have a lot more control than you think and so you should actually walk in with this idea that you have a lot of control that's one second things she always said is that you know stop complaining about this today in the hearing and now and where we are and it's really poor that doesn't define at all who you are so just because we are unable to buy the newest clothes and we sometimes look poor does not mean you should act poor if she was on this all the time and there's a way to act poor and by the way most of the rich people that you see on TV Act or Danny they acted poorly and so and so she was trying to make that distinction and said that that's the part that the most important part it's not this other stuff by the way she also had and we had a sign in our house that said poverty sucks so she's did this is not like let's let's shoot for poverty because she also didn't think that was a good outcome but it was more about it was more about you control a lot of your life you goodness is clear and and conversely badness is clear there's a lot of stuff but goodness is clear and badness is clear and we want to kind of lean toward this end of the spectrum not towards that end of the spectrum and the measure of your success is not going to be at the end of the day how much money you make she said to me who you are is not where you are and you didn't read the second part remember that when you're rich and famous this was in this is before there was any prospect of me being either rich or famous and literally because I was not even in college at the time and we lived in a place that you would never expect anybody to be rich and famous from unless they were like criminals and she said to me she would say who you are is not what you are remember that when you're rich and famous and I remember very specifically the first time that I recalled in real life you know versus just a proverb in the back of my head that statement was when I was made president of the company it was a massive deal I was made president and a name to the board it was huge and I got calls from everywhere and that's where this other statement and I got called the smartest the most attractive everything every accolade you could possibly imagine was I was called it's a great person great strategist great decision-maker great and I sat there and said you know this is my mother is kind of in the back going ping ping ping remember that when you're rich and famous right so we you are now as these people think you're this great person you've done nothing yet you know I've just earned my way into the court to be debated you know for that for those greatnesses to be debated about me but they've already kind of gave given it to you people be careful might be careful because it's so it's it was I when I was growing up I thought it was kind of whole bunch of BS you know do I have to hear this every single day mom every day and now I say I hear I hear it every day and she doesn't even have to say it to me excited say to myself every single day yeah yeah so as you moved into your your professional career how important has mentoring been to you in terms of your development and and in terms of advice to the people in the audience how do you find those mentors yeah it's probably this this is another thing I didn't know until much later in my life and when you look back you look in hindsight and say oh my god well I didn't know that it's probably the single most important piece of actual learnings that I got came from people who cared about me and spent time with me because I was taught I'm an engineer so I went to school and I learned how to do engineering mechanical engineering I was really good at it everything was fine you put me in a lab I can do a set of equations and I can figure out a way to make things spin fast and whatever I was doing at the time but what you find out early and in life and in your careers that you can do very little by yourself you can do very so you have to actually engage the rest of the world for engineers and for scientists this is a little bit unfortunate right because we kind of think it's you know math is pretty finite I like it one plus one under all circumstances though - it's never two point one or you know a little bit better if you say it and I say it and I like that perm that that finality and that clarity of things what you learned and what mentors have taught me throughout my career is that all you have to be able to operate in the gray space you have to be able to manage with people I always say I say a lot that one of the toughest things about work is that humans are involved okay it would be great if it was just to a set of machines right they come to work they don't have sick kids they don't get tired the weather is not bad etc except they're not distracted the most exciting thing about work is that humans are involved because literally what keeps the place going and what keeps creativity coming and new problems being identified and solved is that there are these people who kind of run around and they are not organized they're not they don't follow the script that you wrote and then by not following the script that you wrote they literally create new opportunities for businesses to grow and thrive but for individuals to grow and thrive as well so it's yeah it's so following up on this engineering background how how has that engineering training informed your leadership style it is the foundation I actually have to have - it is Who I am my engineering thinking I you know I happened on the perfect career for me the perfect career training choice for me I am as I said I like black and white things like clarity and like you know problems solve them and then you perfect them later let's figure out a way to get ourselves out of the corner and then you can perfect it later that's what engineers do I do and so I it's perfect choice for me it's kind of the personality that I have however that came about my mother however came about I have this I like clarity and I'd like to know the end of movies before I go in relax my kids by the way I do all movies I do not walk into movies that I don't know the end of the movie I don't need to stay a minute why do you need to stress I so these suspense things I'm not too into so it's perfect for me the career I chose is perfect for me what mentors have done and what most of my learning is is in how to deal with the real world which is mostly movies without knowing the ending and that and so mentors team members the rest of the world helps me to fit into the world in an appropriate way if we're just not up to me most things would we would not be as creative as we should be I just want to note a simple solution so so given that the people kind of get in the way of things the the mentors help that light bulb go on for you that you you could actually lead people yeah and teaching me how not by saying it but by doing it by you know you watch great leaders of which I'm not one yet you watch great leaders and you are just mesmerised by their ability to create followership their ability to not this is not like Houdini like you know spend golly it's not that it's literally to work the room over a long time to you know weed out but also but not not know select out but you know we know non conformist in the worst way bringing a lot of non conformist in the best way and create an arrow that people can kind of walk down so they're you know the people who break off to the side but the vast majority of people are going to be on this path towards a greatness or and they're gonna use most of their energy towards moving the ball forward the greatest leaders can do that and that's what that's something that I spend a lot of time looking at people I select my boards for that I select I max to go on all kinds of boards and all kind of do all kinds of things and people say well why don't you pick this company in that company primarily I picked American Express and excellent metal mobile because they have amazing leaders these guys are they are clear and human and fallible and they learn and they tell stories over and over and over again that cause people to align around the cause and that's and that's I think the highest level of leadership that you can have you've called yourself chief storyteller so can you can you tell us some stories maybe the the saddest story you know that is a cautionary tale that you use to keep from repeating mistakes and maybe a story about something that inspires you and you hope others most of my sad stories are personal stories there are very few things in business that make me really sad now I have I I got a excute I have a board member here so he's a boss of mine so I'm I'm a little nervous about having him here all my my secret stuff so he's my board member - so you know so Bob just be kind yeah you know I say that in a very serious way there are very few things that happen in business that I care about about that much that I would divert my emotional sadnesses toward if I so most of my sadnesses are have to do my sad occasions that are memorable have to do with things that I missed with people individuals well my mother died the most heartbreaking the saddest the most amazing thing in my life was when my mother died very young very unexpected and I was unprepared and so the the conversation was that you would have if you knew something was happening was very different than if you didn't know right so I did know yeah it kind of nude she got sick of it but still even though she was dying so I missed a whole set of opportunities to tell her what I'm knowing people now about how important she was to me business is not that way for me it's a little bit more I'm the caretaker of a legacy that we want to keep going for a long that we want to keep creating every single day I'm just one of many many many of those caretakers they're things I'm very passionate about business but I'm not I don't lose emotional you know it's not the whole part of my life at all most of the joys that I have are also personal but I can tell you some unbelievable work Joy's so most of the sadnesses are personal the joys are our mixed you know one of the things that was amazing was when I when the company decided to buy this other company I remember we were I was thinking about this I had two years of being president before I became CEO and we knew that the CEO then knew we were kind of stuck a little bit if we didn't do something fundamentally different with the with the assets that we had we had a lot of them great research institutions spread around the world unbelievable people you know really customer centric and problem solvers dealing with complexity very well you know pushed through any wall amazing set of people that are part of the Xerox family permission by my clients to do stuff then customers liked us and they actually wanted us to succeed even if we screwed up they were willing to kind of hang out with us for a while so we had this brand that people liked and the question was what do you do with it right if you are in a business that that is changing not by anything that you did and changing for the better what you did the service that you provide is changing fundamentally for the better you don't have to print all of this stuff you can view it yeah everything was changing and it would change our business very substantially and we I had time and the company had a little bit of foresight to think about what do you do we could fight this and we there's a company that did it you know it's not doing too well right now oh it's actually almost out of business literally companies that do that we had the benefit and the foresight to think about what else could we do and one of the most amazing times was when we went to a bank myself and my CFO thought about buying this other company from more money than we had during the banking crisis where nobody else had money either but at least a company that we were buying didn't have a lot of suitors because nobody had money right so it was like the perfect time to buy because nobody else was shopping and we were shopping and a little bit desperate from a from a future perspective and we went to the bank to JPMorgan Chase and Jamie Dimon is the head of JPMorgan Chase and he's you know reputed to be a lot of things one of the things that he is that he's reputed to be as smart and he is pretty smart you know we sat with him and he said to me so Ursula here's to here's the deal we can get you money other people could probably get you money too but the reason why you're gonna come with us was is because I believe this is the smartest move that I've seen in years and that was one of the few times that I said yeah wow this is a guy who is smart and he so these kinds of does you get some joy in that some personal joy also a lot of joy when we when you actually have groups people who solve big big problems on your you know for the company or customers call you and say that more often than not that you screwed something up but you fixed it because that's generally what happens if you just do it right the first time they don't generally call you but if that's enough or somebody messes up and you fix it those are those are happy times in my two kids being born joyful times like two kids getting into college joyful times my two kids getting the graduate school joy sometimes most of the joyful times and sad times I said are our personal things not too much work so moving to some some different kinds of behaviors and emotions you talked a lot about the need to be fearless and and you also have said that you sometimes think that Xerox suffers from terminal niceness now what's interesting is that there are two really pivotal pivotal moments in your career where you openly challenge some senior leaders and and instead of being reprimanded or fired you were offered new jobs and promotions so that the question is what what can you tell people around how you approach things without fear and that that you have the candor and the honesty but you say things in a way that people find engaging rather than off-putting yeah the second part let me start with that that's where mentors help a lot they helped me a lot to help me understand how to deliver messages that people could hear the message versus the way I was saying the message and that's an art form that I'm still working on but I got a lot of help on it because I was significantly worse at it when I was younger than I am today because how you say things actually is important I used to think it was only what you said it's the one plus one is to know why do we have to debate about anything else but it is important to actually make it so that people can actually not put a barriers and hear the words to actual words mentis have helped me a lot on that helped me a lot on how I speak and not the pace or the diction but the the gentleness or the harshness of the you know under what you you say things I'm still working on that my team my direct team helps me a lot illness in this area Beth who's here where's Ben she's the brunt of the most she's the brunt of the worst of Ursula burns so what I mean by that is that part I have good thoughts we all have good thoughts and if you don't check yourself before you open your mouth sometimes you say what you feel and before you say what you think you know so I'm annoyed will be the first words but the question you know I mean I'm annoyed but it's a teaching moment so why don't you just go to the teaching and not go to the annoy moment so a lot of a lot that that that what I just said is open for a lot more deep diving but mentors helped me a lot and people who are patient with me helped me a lot to kind of balance out a conversation so that I can be heard and my voice so that I can be heard versus you know be off-putting but what I've found out and one of the things that's really shocking to me throughout my career has been shocking throughout my career whenever I run into it which is often is that very well educated broad flexible meaning the option people with options work hard to not offend or to be to be to conform and I think that there is a balance between not offending of course as I said I'm still working on it but people work so hard on it that their voice gets totally and completely shut down so you sit in a room one of the things that Xerox that I that really shocked me is we would sit in rooms and we would listen to a presentation and people would say a nice presentation great slides it was beautiful well done John really beautiful John would leave the room we would say we're never gonna do that that was a stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life so I say well the presentation was nicely done the slides were nicely done but wouldn't it have been useful for John to understand because he had some Coronel of a good idea wouldn't have been used to for him to understand if we could have said it without saying the stupidest thing in my life right wouldn't have been useful for him to understand that that was not very useful that what he was doing was not something that we wanted him to do continue to do and we we always felt as dull and I think companies do generally they don't want to actually insult people and there is a good thing don't everybody don't run around thinking that I installed people all day I don't do that but I think that we also actually tolerate from people who can do better and should be able to do better who are in this small group of very gifted well-trained high expectations people we tolerate averageness and it's not just average listen of intelligences of a behavior and just and I don't think it's necessary I think we can actually step above that put communally if you're close to each other particularly if you all know each other the ramifications around my team leadership table is what what is it right what are the ramifications I'm gonna fire them no I actually depend on them unbelievably right so I want to be able to have a conversation where they say to me earth that idea that you just said or that the way that you approach that is just not gonna fly it's just not good however they want to say it I want them to be able to say it versus worried about ramifications of saying it if it's the right you know if it if it's not stupid if it's new but then we didn't we start to do education kind of things but what happens is that I find so often people are more cautious I spent I go to Washington a lot not more than I thought I would ever do as a as a business leader by the way necessarily importantly it's it's required you probably know this policy is made and if you don't give them some insight about the effects of the proposed policy then you live with it so you'd better have some voice but in Washington you go and I have the privilege to sometimes sit with the president one of the things that's really interesting is people say to me I am just amazed that you would you would actually speak to the president that way and I say oh was I you know was I unkind oh no no was that did I say something did i insult no no you just didn't agree with him and I say I say this to my team when I come home he asked me to the office to to talk to him and I would assume that what he wanted was my opinion not in his opinion told back to him Frank and so this idea that that we have to we have a responsibility to use our brains to move cause this forward for the better is something that I think we're losing a little bit of with this terminal you know politically correct very nice so we spend so much time on that that we that the words become hard to say you know it gets confused and in your family the one thing you can count on your family is that after you say something really bad to your husband or your children let's say your children they love you anyway right and so you try not to say it awful often but you have to be comfortable enough to say yeah you know I'm really not happy today I'm really pissed off today and this is what you did and they have to be able to come back and say I think you're unjustified or justified in that and have a real conversation back and forth and Xerox would tea I'm teaching that a little we are terminally nice and we're getting less nice that doesn't mean that we're mean we're getting more able to have frank conversations about good things and bad things where we have to improve what business types would want to go into whether this person is going to be successful whether this strategy makes sense those are conversations that we have to have openly and not with without fear of reprisal yeah well you're you're you can't afford either mediocrity or a lack of candor because you are leading a major transformation at Xerox and so it's a it's a huge amount of change and maybe people don't know that you've transformed the company from one that was a product technology company to one that is now the larger percentage of the company is a service a service process business so was that transformation hard for you personally given your mechanical engineering background or did you feel like you had the same I'm not hard for me personally you know I think the discipline of the thing about process I love the word process because it's kind of like the middle name of engineers right and so first first lay it out and then figure out a way to perfect it and then lean it out right but the reason why wasn't by the time we made that transition it was more my job was more about leaving than managing anything Hey we were talking about this a little bit earlier in the lunch I've managed very few things I'm smiling you know do a lot I don't hire a lot of people anymore I mean if I hardly anyone I lead a lot of people who actually also lead things and so by the time we made that that transition that by the time that transition was you know well underway which I was the leader of this daughter of I didn't have to get too far into the details of managing the things it was more about orchestrating a set of changes I think that if I were still an engineer and somebody told me you know doing engineering that we were you know we're gonna now do I don't know what Business Process Outsourcing it would've been a little confusing and so I do spend time actually trying to make sure that people understand the change but for me now it's not it's really not a big deal so the one of the leadership challenges with that transformation is that the growth is on the service side and and you don't see the growth on the technology side but you can't afford to have to too little activity on the technology side as you and that's really interesting so how do you how do you motivate the people who are on the side of the business that doesn't see the same upside yeah it sees the same it sees upside but different upside so what how do you motivate them you got to show them their upside the upside in our company is different for the different for the two different types for the many different types of businesses that were and it's not only just technology and services parts of services that are declining as well or have a different economic model or economic dynamic that we have to pay attention to but your question is actually one of the most challenging things that I'm dealing with today one of the you know we bought this company we changed we were you know we're still struggling our way through bringing in all of these people and you know under standing the real details of some of the business that we have that's all good fun that's what work is about part of the thing that I was not prepared for was how much conversation I had to have with the people who were on the technology side about whether or not we still love them so literally the vast majority of time that I spend on technology with the people in the company who were historical Xerox people 90% of the time is on we still love you and it's in you know my team will tell you I was so frustrated with this conversation because I would say I've already made it clear that we love you so do you want me to say it every single day you you know even when I'm speaking on earnings calls by the way we love the technology guys because what happens is everything is accessible to everyone so they read something that you do in earnings and they say well you didn't say that you didn't mention that we love the technology guys I'm like well so part of what I had to do is become a little this is my this is the engineer part or the I don't know what it's not that more than engineers it's the personality part of isn't it clear I said it I meant it do I have to say it every single time my kids teach me that yes you have to say it every single time but because they actually need to be reassured that it's not it that their jobs are still valuable to the company that their value is still useful to the company and that's what in its and it becomes extremely personal it's you know the group but what it comes down to is that I it's not am I gonna have a job only but is is it worthwhile for me to be here and that's something that I miscalculated underestimated how important it was to actually have that conversation to know that story continuously in many different languages and many different you know ways of telling the story it's a continuous thing and we bought the company six years ago and I'm still I opened up most conversations with technology guys you're very valued it sounds a little bit rote now but because it's true they are very valuable I mean they're parts of our business are growing every single person in technology contributes disproportionately to the success of the company today the people in services they overachieve on just about everything that we give them to do we're experts at it so and we're still learning on the other side so they cover a lot of sins of the other side they are extremely valuable individuals groups and as a section of the business and I underestimated how important it was to continue to say that and this is another leadership thing you know some of my board helps me with this the soft side so so you've said that women are different damn that and the difference is you know that everybody know that and the differences should be celebrated absolutely so do those differences carry over into how you think about leadership absolutely absolutely by the way I don't know a lot about how men think about leadership in from the inside out obviously but I've lived with it for my whole life because most of the leaders that I've worked for our men yeah one of the reasons why I say this is that there was a time I have a son and a daughter and the son is the most interesting one that the daughter is the most challenging one son is the most interesting one and the son is he's we spent a lot of time together he would he would say things to me like you know I don't know whether I should hold the door open for this woman or not because you know sometimes they're confusing and by the way some of the statements were that basic you know I held the door open and the women was insulted and it's someone and so forth we actually have created this we women have created this unbelievable situation for the world we said we are different but we wanted but we want to not be different we want you to pretend as though we are not different except for when it's convenient for us to be different and we're not even gonna tell you when you should know now it's funny but it's really kind of it's nerve-wracking because women are different still today they're the only people who can have the babies are the women so I don't care what you say for nine months of your life or you know plus or minus a month you will have you will have a physical you will be physically burdened for nine months of your life men will never experience that when you walk into work in that state things are different for you you will have to be treated differently now that doesn't physically differently that doesn't mean your mind has gone away or that you know that not that but it's trust me that you can't do the same thing you you're not gonna be able to jump off the 4th store you know that could be able to do that we've actually confused things we've actually swung the pen this is my opinion so everything is my opinion this one is definitely my opinion we actually have swung things over to the far I think too far the things that we celebrate the things that we should celebrate about being a woman often we are trying as women to push back and to kind of make it not important it's really not a big deal yes I know I'm pregnant but the fact of the matter is yes you're pregnant and it's not but it's end the things are changing for the next couple but am I going to come back to work I'll be fine I'll be yeah but when I come back to work guess what we'll have a baby maybe two of us and things will change when you have a baby if things don't change and I'm wondering what the heck are you doing so I just think I think what has happened is that we've actually taken all the nuance and the beauty out of difference by trying to drive this though don't hold the door for me I mean how dare you give up your seat I say to my son you give up your seat I don't care what the hell the woman looks like pregnant or not old or young or for her your seat that has nothing to do with whether I think she's weak or strong at all it's a value that we've carried in our family and I'm not willing to crush that value right so it I just think we have to kind of loosen up a little bit and actually focus on the most important things we have a mind that is equal to a man's mind we have we don't have generally physical capability that are equal from a strength perspective okay with that so therefore the men carries more stuff tonight I'm making a joke out of it but I hope that you get what I mean this is it's not about women are stronger or weaker or smarter or we're different different things that we're stronger at certain things that men can't be strong around we can actually have a baby we actually are still tribe the primary responsibility of a young child the primary responsibility for a young child is with the mother by the way all kinds of variations of that are being crop create being created I'm fine with that until they're in place guess what if the baby has to be fed and you don't have formula there's only one person who can do that and that means that the person who has to be prepared to do it does it right the woman has to be prepared to take care that responsibility or else why have the child now we have to have a society that works on a set of structures companies government structures schools whatever that works on a set of structures that that kind of even it out for women but until it's done until it's evened out you're gonna be fighting a cause I'm fine with that because I fight them all the time be prepared that you're fighting for the next generation because you're probably not gonna benefit that much from it today but that's part of what life is like that's what we do I just don't think we can throw away the differences without being prepared for the vacations and one of the ramifications is that we have children we have families we create institutions that go on for a long time and I kind of like men to be men they look like men and to operate like men and women to operate like women and by the way if you're gay or transgendered you like whatever you like but that should we should allow that those differences to be celebrated not to try to home how many many guys ourselves to one which it seems like what we're trying to do that gets me really nervous you know so shifting to other so I will actually I wanted to bring another group into the spotlight here so another group you're you're a part of which is business and you have said that there is an unhealthy distrust of business oh yeah so what what what have we done collectively to create that distrust and what can we do to to bring trust back into the the world of business I this is so I know we're on some thing right taped so if I'm going to caveat this with the fact that anybody who I insult or or get angry has to understand that this is my opinion I run a company and unfortunately I don't want to buy my opinion so I think that what we in the last couple of iterations of global elections global policy setting we've created a way of winning by creating losers so what we've said is there are people who have a lot of stuff there are this many and there are people who have a little bit of stuff in there more and the people who have a lot of stuff is the cause for your having a little bit of stuff they are the enemy they're smaller numbers so it doesn't particularly matter because I can't really vote more there's small number and those are that's the the cause of all the all of your unhappiness and unsuccess whatever it is is are those guys over there business has become particularly big business has become that really I whenever I go to Washington I'm like are you serious I employ a hundred and forty thousand people so what are we talking about that are you talking to one hundred and forty thousand people or you're just talking to this building because the business is nothing but a whole bunch of people and there's this disproportion view that these leaders me Bob Keegan and the old life whoever it is you who run the business school you run this I 1 Z rock so that I can get the last penny out of my workers pay them the least amount of money give them the least amount of health care literally so I can keep it all for myself really is just not so we just don't wake up thinking that way we don't go to sleep thinking that way it never enters our mind never and by the way if you listen listen you say they stuff my god CEOs who would want to be one of those they're worse than the president worst in Congress they're worse than lawyers right because we've been vilify mean by the way I'm not I don't think that we need a lot of people defending us that but I don't think it's unhealthy it's unhealthy the world runs by a whole bunch people doing different things not for profit for profit things organizations like churches do there be peace governments do there peace businesses big and small do there peace there is no part of the groups that I just talked about including armies that that are inherently bad we just make them bad when you actually have a zero-sum game that you lay out for your citizens and I think that often what happens particularly now in politics it's a zero-sum game the only way that we're going to actually be able to have you people out there happier is by taking it away from the people who have more by the way I think that there's a fair amount of that that has to be done which is called a tax system which the last time I looked at was pretty hefty amount of taxes that we pay corporations and individuals at least that I pay in my company pays corporations and in businesses so we're not sitting there all kind of taking the money and saying yeah these guys don't deserve it whatever but there's a way to do that legally government should structure a system that does that legally you know put tariffs on things and then everybody should go off and play their games by the rules of a good organized well-meaning society and not pit people against each other and right now I think in it's really dangerous what's happening in the view and the voice about about corporate America by the way the view and the voice about banking is the worst of all I mean so banks are the leaders they're the they're the devil incarnate in business and then businesses are the little whatever the angel collides and I just think I think it's inappropriate I think that what you know this this world was built they're bad actors everywhere in everything government everywhere and and in business they're bad acting businesses is bad acting individuals and business I that's all that's why we have laws that's why we have you know governance structure but business is absolutely fundamental to successful society big business for sure but soul is the minim side medium-sized and small and we've actually created this this voice around them that they're they're inherently bad and inherent the leaders not personal but the leaders are inherently greedy and blood-sucking individuals I think it's just not true yeah that's not healthy okay I'm gonna ask one last question and then turn it over to the audience and and I think maybe this question I should ask of the audience because when I when I start off with a quote from your mother you reminded me that there's more to that and and what I had written down was don't get confused when you get rich and famous and so I guess the question for the audiences do you think she's doing okay here you know so do you still think about that all the time time you know all the time you know I said this earlier and it's so hokey when you say it sometimes but I say it all the time because it actually is true there is a point in life when the next million dollars or ten thousand dollars or five doesn't make a difference it comes earlier than you think the first time that you have you're faced with a loved one struggling or a massive success that has nothing to do with money you realize that all of the joint all of it 110 percent of it is totally devoid of any economic measure it is all about and you know for somebody who had no economic measures I had like negative I can we lived on borrowed money we lived on borrowed everything right we lived on the handouts and the grace of you know strangers when I was growing up and the state provided us with all kinds of you know food assistance cetera so I thought that when I got money I would think it's really a big deal it's a huge deal and early on unfortunately I realized that there was a there's a level that above which is nice to have but unnecessary and then above there's a level above that that it's literally total is almost meaningless right it happens quicker than you think and what happens is people don't but what happens what can you think and people try to dampen that feeling out that yeah I'm happy without it I'm I'm kind of accomplished with I have great kids they are independent they are well-meaning and well doing and they're happy I mean we've got a whole sit around and we kind of hang out we have a good family and that's pretty cool and the first time you run into something and by the way we live in a great place or we we have all the benefits that money gives you but we would be at half the money and a half of that again and half of that again we would still be happy and my and I and I'll play the other thing forward people who have a whole lot of stuff and does totally dysfunctional families spend all of their time all of their energy all of their money Plus which can't buy it for them they try to get order there and I just say don't don't shortchange don't shortchange the things that are really important that you think will come later they don't come later if you don't build it and don't over emphasize the things that you know when you get there you go okay fine so so we're here so what now what next right you got you got the Maserati or whatever it is I don't have a Maserati but if you got a Maserati and you say what am I gonna get the second Maserati you read some of this stuff right the people have to really you can't why do you need them because the reason why you do it is because you can and it gives no joy to you right so it's just a continued almost biding time by crossing off days and that's what I just hope that we get back to raising families people including university education posts so post secondary so universities post graduate education is everything that has something to do with caring for each other and laying a foundation that is not measured by how big the place you live in and how many of the things you have are that can't be the measure because then it is a zero-sum game because then what you do is you try to hoard everything and there will be a huge amount of people who have nothing and that's not that you know we know what that ends up you know you we see societies like that today where it's not that same I'm preaching but it's it's so important to me that we that somebody who had nothing to somebody who has everything today the everything is all about non-monetary stuff reasonable organized life reasonably good kids who are doing reasonably good things a reasonable husband you know reasonable family members living and reasonable community this is good this is good okay all right questions from the audience a great question it's about a question I get asked to do a lot of things and in the beginning I was pleased to try everything but you know one of the things I say now and I thought a lot about this so you know how do you focus your energies is that I ended up in the place that I think was the opening door for my entire life because of two things one is I had a great mother so a great structured structure and a person who could teach me some values it could have been anybody in the priest but it would happen to be my mother and the second as I loved into engineering I lucked into engineering literally lucky I had never heard of a friggin engineer when I was going I went to a Catholic schoolgirl Catholic school and my senior year I had four classes one was belief in Jesus is really was really good the second class is called leaving cleaving and becoming oneself it was a marriage of class on how to be a good and in some other class and then I had a physics class and I actually liked the physics class the other classes were interesting I took some English stuff anyway they were interesting and I was really interested in this other set of classes and I did a lot of Investigation and real by myself go into the library and realize that you know we were really poor so one of the things that I was trying to do is find a job after four years of college because my mother had there was no choice you had to go to college even if you went for four years this fat no frigging cafeteria she said you're leaving this house and you're going to college and we will figure out a way to pay for it so I had to go to college and so I I went to college and I actually looked before I went to college I looked for what careers could you have after four years that made the most money literally there's a book called a barons book you had to go to the library because you couldn't could there wasn't Google yeah it wasn't even personal computers I still had the TI the TI t remember that the reverse polish notation calculus and I went and it was Chemical Engineering you can make most money after four years of college if you became a chemical engineer I said that's what I'm going to become I had no idea what the hell our chemical engineer was I really didn't so I actually applied to all these schools took all these tests and you know apply to all these schools and got into a lot of the schools about all of them and with with a proviso that there would be help I was led in on this thing called Hyup the higher education Opportunity Program it's for people who show promise but are not prepared so you go to the college and in the first year of college you take all these remedial classes and you get tutored and you know so on so on and then by the time you finish the first year at college you actually are in the first year of college and I actually did that I went I went to chose to school close to my home and in chemical engineering hated Chemical Engineering really hated Kevin you know the thing about Chemical Engineering is you have to like chemistry I kind of forgot about that part I didn't really like chemistry but I was really good at physics and I really and so instead of just dropping out of school my advisor said mechanical engineering is the thing that and I turned out it turned out I was a good student very very good student was a really quick learner so all the stuff that you had to do to lose the year I didn't do I you know got now that's you went to my luck going to the thing make most my have someone someone chemical energy I didn't hear about engineers I got passionate about so if if that's what if that kind of crooked path is how I got there with a mother who was someone who was patient enough and forceful enough to keep me on the path how do we make it so not happenstance for other people how do we make it such that other people actually don't have to have these you know all the stars aligned with these unbelievably superstar you know mothers how do we make it more natural for people that actually understand their choices and that's what most of my activities most of my the games activities 95% of them or around this how do we give people insight and more access to options options that can improve their life by the way and people think all I want is people to become engineers so my son is getting his PhD in earth sciences petroleum engineering from Stanford University's at MIT boy and four people say you must love him manly so of course I do but my daughter got her undergraduate degree in math and creative writing and he's get it heard she's getting her master's degree and guess what creative writing and by the way I couldn't care less whether or not she chose man for creative writing she understood options and she picked the one that's best for her and we have so many people the vast majority of undergrad minorities and women in this country listen to them half the population women and then another 30% of the population literally has no idea that they can actually become engineers and have a great life they have no idea and so why is that I mean we tell them how to dance and play basketball and everything you can imagine right so why is it that they're and then we don't we don't get out there and talk to them we don't actually show them what what we do we don't inspire them and that's what what I want to do is actually do that you know people know every bit starting basketball player for Duke I guarantee you the kids miss in this community they do go to the school and accidents they know who won the Nobel Prize in Physics or who cured whatever the thing that was curious they will have no clue I just want to and it's never gonna match right because Duke is on TV all the time and they're pretty good but but they should at least have a level of curiosity and ability to kind of connect the dots and right now that doesn't exist so I think it's my story which is this supernatural storm people like oh my god it's so amazing how do we make it less amazing how do we make it more very that's what the whole goal is give them access by the way if they don't take advantage of it and they don't they fail okay we'll lose some but right now we lose many most because they don't even know didn't even try hi so you talked about how you picked the chemical engineering work for his chemical engineering but you became a chemical engineer because you wanted to earn a lot of money after graduation when did that change as soon as I learn earned so it's alright for me a lot of money my first job I was paid twenty nine thousand and four dollars I got a job offer from Xerox I will never forget this um I had got my master's degree PSMs I went straight through to get my master's degree and they offered me a permanent job at twenty nine thousand and four dollars that was when I had made enough money literally I could not believe that I was going to be paid twenty nine thousand dollars to do anything and so I and I literally was more than capable in living living with far less than twenty nine thousand and four dollars so even met of taxes so I thought at that point like wow wow people pay that much money for you to do this thing which is pretty cool it's fun it's they give you stuff to work with they give you equipment they fly you to places to to go visit other plants and do work another place you get to see the world I thought this was the most amazing value proposition in the world by the way this was before the internet so you couldn't find you know in order to see England you had to go now you could see it on TV and people actually think that they've been here so I learned that early and what I had a whole bunch of experiences throughout my career that we kept that continually recalibrated me down to what was really important so first was my first job that said wow this is amazing a lot of money a lot more than I needed because I was living on significantly less than that and then when my mother got sick and died that was the second point but I thought I was making let's say $100,000 which was 1983 so maybe $75,000 and I had more money than I needed and with all the money I could not rescue my mother I couldn't change that outcome and the most important thing would have been to change that outcome and I realized you really quickly that okay what's this gonna buy you it's gonna buy you know the ability to get back and forth and see her more often you know right before she dies but it wasn't gonna fix her and that probably because of the way I was raised was very very important it I realized it really early and then the last time was just recently my husband got very very ill and nearly died I'm never sitting I'm CEO of a company I'm sitting in my mother my husband calls somebody calls and says your husband is in the hospital I fly this is the part that when he helps you on you just doesn't matter this fly to the place it doesn't matter what the fear is you just get there when we're walking into the hospital room and my husband was my husband is this he's a different kind of a guy but he's extremely powerful in his way you know in his way and his impact on our family he's totally intellectual he's very disorganized so when you saw him you wouldn't think that he was just this earth mover but he is in our family he has lots of fortune but but he's great and we love him and he's 20 years older than I am and he was really really ill and I remember then calling one of my board members and saying that I'm not gonna be able to deal with this I'm not gonna be able to deal with this and the person said to me first of all God doesn't give you any more than you can deal with in any given time there's no fee anymore so you'll be able to deal with it and make sure you keep falling back on the things that carry you through everything think about those things and I think every day he called me then this board member and said have you thought about those things what's important what's important what's important and the thing that was important then was that I kept close to my husband physically so that he could see so he could feel the strength and that I was his hope that was it and it had nothing to do with money nothing to do it never came up and didn't you know and so I those are the I get reminded about this as you go through life and and it generally is when you actually about joy and sadness and stuff and it sounds kind of unemotional that I don't have this massive the joys are not generally about about they're about things that are that if they let if they changed if they left you you would be a long time for you to overcome them and fix them and that's generally emotional things and people things for someone I learned that I keep getting reminded right when my head gets a little bit too big and I you know go to spend them a little bit too much money and not give enough of it away I get reminded how come back down to earth Ursula you know it's not about that it's not about that it's not about that it's more about this we got to do one more so she did it right I always do this we I say one more so we're gonna do two more we're gonna do yours and then one more thank you so much so given the impact that your mother has had on you and how close you are with your children what is the legacy you hopes leave with them were the key lessons that you hope that they carry on that effort is important that good matters and that good is not confusing it's pretty clear and that my mother said this is another one of her statements it's um you have to leave behind more than you take away she said it to me throughout my whole life leave behind more than you take away you do that in the company you do that in relationships and by the way if you have relationships where you can't do that don't have the relationships that's all you can be I say this to my kids all the time you can be a bad person all by yourself there's no need to spread it all right so leave behind more than you take away is this big thing and for kids of parents with means it's really particularly parents with means who came from parents without means it's kind of a really confusing place because you know we trying to raise them like we have absolutely no money you know you can't have a car car people have cars when they're 16 and 17 that's like there is no way in the world you're getting the car I had a car when I was 25 and it was a broken-down jalopy and these kids that he's going to school with are driving these new cars and I remember one of my mentors in Mackay he said to me you're trying to raise your kids like you're poor you're not we have to raise them as rich as good rich kids and what and it was an interesting statement because she said the values that you're trying to impart on the kids are going to know immediately if you go to the to the Bahamas and stay at the four seasons they're gonna probably realize this is not referred to these days so there's this kind of confusing thing and she said don't confuse them make it really clear so raise them as good rich kids so leave behind one you take away is the one thing and by the way these kids are struggling they're struggling because they are the expectation for them for them from our family is high and it's not it is high in this kind of amorphous be good people way it's kind of hard yeah so it's like I want you to be good people so looking around all the time I hope I'm being a good person but it's it's kind of I think it's okay it's kind of the normal Catholic Way like that you know Jewish people suffer black black people suffer Christians suffer we actually like to you know beat ourselves up and feel uncomfortable all the time like that's what we do love the cat I'm a good Catholic girl and I want my kids to be good Catholic kids struggling last question question is coming from a background where your parents did not work in corporate America they weren't able to provide you with that guidance how did you grow comfortable navigating that environment and dealing with the intricacies that you didn't even know existed when you got there yeah I think that I was most of the answers to questions like this I it sounds flip it sounds like and it's not meant to be that way it's not that complicated I think we overthink a lot we are almost too smart for our own good one of the things I learned earlier is that I am Who I am and I know what I know and I'm willing to learn more every day but you know I I am Who I am I it's not like I can become somebody else there's certain things that I know and things that I don't know and so I approached most things like hey yeah you know I am boy am I my mother didn't work in corporate America my father wasn't even around by the way most people in my generations mothers and fathers you know they didn't work in corporate America so it's normal we actually believe it's more complicated you just walk in with your best game whatever that game is right and generally it's your education it's the best game you have and yeah you guys are going to going to me the Fuqua School Duke I mean really you walk in with that credential that's what you have and you don't have to cover you don't have to you have that a lot of people don't they may have some father or mother who worked in corporate America you don't it all normalizes itself so it's just normal life you wake up every single day you use your best hand the hand is dealt with you you make it the best hand you actually stay focused on the areas that you can improve you have some fun joy I mean literally you have some fun you find people that you like you learn things you go to work and you do good and then you start moving you don't get pigeonholed I got asked about that earlier no that's not the way it is it's just it's just a part of life just like you live your life every day with your family you should actually approach work that way I make mistakes I learn I engage I engage with people and there's not like a chess board with a master manipulator and say well that person doesn't have not it doesn't happen everybody walks in with some their 10 cards that everybody should have multiple walking with 4 or 5 they may have a different 4 or 5 than you but ok so you have your 4 or 5 they have their 4 or 5 and it's not that kind of a competition where oh my god I'm going to it's not that way most of the time it's just go to work do good work learn expand yourself find a place if you like you know use the time that you have to experiment this is it you know try things move around have fun take risks all through your life take a risk but you can take bigger ones when you have less people depending on you then then we not and just kind of have a normal day and not try to be so prescriptive about I this and that have to be prepared for this and then I don't have this experience of that experience it comes it comes one thing I told the lunch now I'm definitely over is that most people think that corporations love people think that corporations want to weed out employees it's the farthest thing we want to find these bad guys and get it out we hide we go through a ton of time interviewing screaming training doing personality tests now you know drug testing because we don't want agree we want you to walk in and be successful it is a disaster even if new hire if we hire you and you're not successful so you should walk into a company big small not for profit for profit government whatever would the idea that there's all these people who are rooting for your success because your failure is a really big deal for a company and most people actually think that there's something else happening but they're trying to find some gap they if they are they're trying to find a gap in it actually help you fill it not trying to find a gap so they can throw you out and it's it's it's approach it from that perspective they're trying to find a gap you were trying to find a gap so that you can learn right so you can say okay I don't know how do I learn somebody could come in and out me etc it's all upside it's all upside and we should play it that way that's the hands that we're dealt particularly if you're sitting in this room the hand you're dealt is upside you should walk out of this room and say my god I have upside hand let's go let's find a great company that wants me to come work let me find out things you use the things that I know do it really well be really good at that and I'm gonna there's a whole bunch stuff I don't know I'm willing to learn guys I'm willing to learn and that and that's and if you do that it generally is pretty good thank you thank you

Channel: Duke University - The Fuqua School of Business

Views: 8,816

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: Duke, University, Duke University, Fuqua, School, Business, The Fuqua School of Business, MBA, Durham, NC, Xerox (Business Operation), Ursula Burns (Organization Leader), Ursula, Burns, Leadership

Id: yb5OEvjVoqs

Length: 70min 59sec (4259 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 31 2015