Discussing Heat (Michael Mann Analysis)

heat by [ __ ] Michael Mann man the man I'm here with my friend Craig and we just watched what I consider to be my favorite Michael Mann film is Manhunter but that's like mmm more purely subjectivity I think and I can make a great argument for heat being the the best American film ever made I think I could make that argument that it's perfectly composed the characters are dynamic compelling rich and fully fleshed out easily relatable I just think it's a the composition is just immaculate and flawless but now we're gonna discuss heat for the better part of an hour and let me do what I do every time Craig what was your initial response to this movie um okay so this movie was I mean you you put it pretty well like it's American it's very much so American the way it captures this city it does something that I feel often isn't done well in American movies when you are an American yes and that's make you feel like you're watching something fantastic like how do I put it like if you were to watch a movie if an American words to watch a movie set in like Paris Paris is gonna be present throughout the entire movie because it stands out to you but we've seen so many la movies so many New York movies Chicago will these stuff like that that it just falls into the background we know what to expect but with this movie it was alive oh yeah the whole time Michael Mann film cities like like no other director in the face of the earth in fact the city is arguably the main character most of his greatest films if not every single one of them the way he framed la in this film and I know that he and his longtime cinematographer who worked with him at least through his experiments with film was never with him on his more ruminative meditative digital works like like Miami Vice or Public Enemies on heat was Dante's spy naughty and I remember the way that they would capture the cities is really interesting they would use a different dude film them at different frame rates at multiple different camera settings and speeds in order to get some sort of more meditative exposure or more stylized exposure to the cities either the lights are moving faster or slower different things like that and I think of that express is a great deal about the cities with a very nuanced way that he films cities you would almost call the style new modernist meaning that it's highly stylized it is richly composed but not self-consciously or you're not aware of it when it's flowing over you nowhere but when it's happening and the multiple frames and speed rates that was something they first started doing in Manhunter back in 86 at the end of the shootout the reason why it's so dynamic and reminds you almost of Eisenstein's Odessa staircase sequence because they filmed the shootout at the end of the movie at different frame rates and different speeds which kind of caused a staccato editing process in the post-production and since then spawn auntie and Michael Mann had been spot on and how they not only film action but primarily cities and also what color they choose to bathe their primary characters with the color blue is the one that is most apparent in heat and I wanted to get Craig's opinion on what blue I think certainly represented a lot of things but did you think it had an overarching meaning um I felt like blue is supposed to be the color that represented the city itself and that these characters were enveloped in this city like but I don't think it's that the city in a literal sense but like what the city represents to these characters I absolutely believe you are agreeing with you is what I should say sir we're not convincing each other at these things we deeply felt them blue I know I know and more Eastern ideologies blue would mean rebirth but here in America blue means along with tranquility along with calmness it also means heaven and I actually get that a lot I think that the city is in a kind of heaven your point now that this movie has a handful of juxtapositions like the movie is called he yet the in primary color is blue and that's the coolest color on the spectrum the cost cost in the sense of like conduct temperature and vibes but like we were also point now that the fact that the characteristics on the primary you know bad guy in the primary good guy are flipped in this there are the opposite of what you would associate it that's probably the most fascinating part of the of at least that the character drama this is a very character driven movie as well d the action scenes are so I think memorable the the shootout that happens about two hours into the movie is so recognized and so Harold it because because the action scene looks so cool it is very well composed the cross cut montages are amazing in that scene once again make Eisenstein phone with the [ __ ] mouth man is a genius but the reason why it's so heavy and resonates so much with the viewers because of the characters involved in it because it's even a character-driven spectacle set piece but I do love that it's inverted Vincent Hanna as played by Al Pacino and and Neela Kali as played by Robert De Niro their characteristics their drives ambitions are not only parallel but they're also inverted at the same exact time whereas Al Pacino's life is falling apart and he's losing all of his attachments Robert De Niro is for the time probably ever in his life gaining them actually collecting attachments in the form of a woman that he has surprisingly fallen in love with and not only that as as we talked about there the way that they project their character the way they project their emotions are flipped as well as Al Pacino is so amplified so loud so unexpected to me in a very good way and Robert De Niro is incredibly reserved and super grounded and you would normally be told this story your hero would be far more rational Al Pacino walks around acting like a flamboyant comic-book villain sometimes whereas Robert DeNiro acts perfectly reasonable and and another thing we were talking about was the fact that these two characters are never filmed directly at once uh if you do see them both at the same time one of them usually has their back yeah one of the most famous scenes in movie history is them at the coffee shop talking to each other and the way that Michael Mann maintains the fact that they are two sides of the same coin while it well having to be separate is by never showing their faces in the same frame the same goes for not tensioning the way he frames the scene I'm trying to remember what it's called it's it's escaping me but when you show one characters face and then the other and then you go right back like reaction shot or cross cut I can't remember it's not important though people know what I'm sorry well I'm the way those both are framed if you were to layer them on top of each other that it's the exact same composition back and forth mm-hmm when they're on opposite sides of each other so it's fantastic because it's like the whole idea is that these two people are literally the opposite sides of the same coin exactly but Michael Mann keeps it finally separated even at the end scene which brings the most tender and powerfully constructed like and I think authentic and genuinely compelled like kind of tears to my eyes I love that final frame of the film where they're holding hands but yet again they're still separated because they're facing opposite directions but they're both feeling the same exact emotion and I that's one of the most powerful trains have ever seen is also one of the most beautifully composed frames I've ever seen and it's such an emotional and stylistic payoff it's just Rises and Rises and then when you get to the fade the black and I filmed by Michael Mann your your life's forever [ __ ] changed man I swear to god that's such a cool frame but that coffee shop scene we shouldn't just spend two sentences on yeah it was extraordinary I really liked it because I get the sense that like Pacino and De Niro and they didn't rehearse the scene at all Pacino loves to rehearse scenes but they're like let's just go into this without knowing what the other person is going to do I feel like that is when the movie um changed course because like up into that point you're just watching a good old cops and robbers film like you know this is the bad guy this is the good guy and then they sit down and have coffee together and then you're like this this is where they're gonna put their cards on the table and you know kind of like do a measuring contest but that's not what it is at all we completely come to understand these characters for who they are and what they want oh it's crippling animist that's so cool it changes the direction of the movie entirely because now it's not so much like man is he gonna get away with it it's like man like but it's not even so much that you're worried about is he gonna get away with that housing didn't catch them like that that's not important anymore you're you're worried about these characters more so than you are about the situation they're in and I would say equally you're equally worried for both and and it's not even come it doesn't even come down to rooting for either character you're not on one person so you're you're just curious because almost goes rooting for the other putting one and more favor than the other is missing the point entirely it's a moot point because they are fated in Michael Mann's fatalistic universe one of them has to die that's it you know and it'll be fair you know the one thing it won't be is unfair that that murder was the only reasonable thing I think that happened in the whole movie because it was fated to be so I'm still escaping the coffee-shop scene I don't want to escape it yeah I had to say some more about that scene because um that seems actually a large reason of why people even watch this film in the first place it was the first time they ever acted together in the same scene not in the same film of course the Godfather Part two they were both in but they were in separate timelines so they were never in the same scene and of course as we covered they're not in the same frame in this film at least not with their faces you see the backs of their heads which is a really inspired choice by man because if you had two of the greatest modern actors or I'll just say they were two of the greatest American actors who ever lived you would probably put them in the same frame if you were anyone but Michael Mann and Michael Mann was deliberately demonstrating the point that while they are in some sort of individuation while they are incredibly similar they are still separated by fate by the lives they be chosen to use and I get the idea that when the Niro and Pacino are acting they're they're kind of playing with each other they're like oh so you're the guy who I've been compared to my entire career and it's a slight friendly competition it's slight showing off a little bit by both of them like let's see what you got and they both rise equally to that opportunity even Pacino is noticeably more muted for that scene than in the other scenes and while we're on that subject I do want to point out that it just came out fairly recently that Pacino's character in the script or at least um his background that man gave him Vincent Hanna was a cocaine user so hopefully his performance makes slightly more sense when you look through it look at it through the framework of this guy's kind of snorting a little couple it's a coke a couple bumps here and there which is why he's so amplified but I agree with man focusing on his drug abuse or drug use would be distracting from several different elements at the film but most of all I think that you could actually blame what's happening to Vincent Hanna his his kind of the way to his life's falling apart Weis had three marriages all sorts of stuff on his drug you so you do not need to overcomplicate something so human with something that is so easily guilt but you you can blame him for that and I don't want ya like I almost wish there was a way he could have showed that he was doing cocaine but I do agree that as soon as you show a character doing cocaine it's a scapegoat yeah like there's no other question to ask it's like why is he acting like this oh he just did cocaine that explains his entire character now and it's like that is very shallow and it's but it's also hard 12 and that would be way to over as I covered they'd be kind of flipped the dynamics of Al Pacino kind of acts the way that an irresponsible villain would act or an unpredictable one if he also did coke on top of it and Neil McCauley hardly like maybe had a couple drinks throughout the movie like it would be way too much it would be like oh I can get exactly what you're doing as opposed to it was pretty nuanced what he did but speaking of nuance speaking of ability speaking of pathos what did you think of the coffee shop scene where they had their conversation think about it one Condors I mean like I know you said that the movie changed for you then but like do you think that that because what I think is this normally in that film the the bank robbery and subsequent shootout that is really well done I don't want to take anything away from that scene normally that would be the centerpiece but my theory is that that is the actual centerpiece of the film that that's the most crucial element of the entire film is that that conversation that they had as opposed to the major action seeing the house oh yeah that laser that was the art confessor especially I mean yeah um because you know there's the whole bell curve thing what's a story uh and then the resolution would obviously be when they're only bands at the end yeah I mentioned while we were watching a movie that uh I thought it was really interesting that he was able to take a giant shoot out like that which that shoot out was really big like oh yeah phenomenal part of the movie but you can literally sweep it under the rug you really can't and with this aim to think about it's really hard to think about cuz I'm like you know you can look at this movie and take it in as a Hollywood movie but but it's not it's not a Hollywood movies like Hollywood movies want to be this movie um because that shoot out in any other movie would have been at the end would have either been at the end or would have been the most important part a film where it's like the tenth most important part in my model it's like because it's like we were just saying it was the most complicated to capture though that might if I told you hey if we're gonna watch this movie there's got a giant shootout the shootouts so cool in the back of your head you're gonna be like okay that's gonna be the turning point of the movie that's gonna be when everything happens everything to where is in this movie it's like oh we gotta see this movie there's this conversation the shootout happens and not that much changes because of it I mean a lot of people die in issues but I it's but that's just like that's just gonna happen that's a step towards what the movies actually back talking about cuz this is cisely it's not talking about the crew the crew is just part of it just like Al Pacino has his crew it's it's about Pacino and De Niro the exact that's what the movies about and if you miss that then you might do think though that man doesn't how about this man adds complexity to that notion by I do believe that Val Kilmer's character is also deeply essential and not just a part of the crew because Al Pacino does not have his equivalent Val Kilmer character he doesn't have his own oh yeah prodigal son so to speak well I'm not trying to take away from the subplots oh no I just want to mention that that subplot was extremely significant to the story and it just add another level of complexity and I do want to point out that while I love that last frame in the film with them holding hands I think it's incredibly powerful my favorite scene in the entire film is when his wife Charlene played by Ashley Judd phenomenally well is waiting on the balcony and the police are inside and she's supposed to learn Chris played by Val Kilmer up to the apartment up into their home so that he could be arrested and he gets out of the car and his appearance is altered because of the effects of the shootout and she does these hand motions that they must have rehearsed and if ever this situation arose and is such a heartbreaking moment where he realizes what happened at lemon where he when he smiles at seeing her and then his cognizant of the fact that he's forever lost her and he has to get back into his car and he has to drive away losing what he called like she's she's the sky and the earth like she's everything to me the Sun rises and the Sun rises and sets with her but on and so sad but I love that he gets away I love it he escapes yeah and because in any other movie you would know know especially are like stop him and you're like oh he's done for they're gonna stop now he gets away but he but the whole point is he doesn't cuz he's a broken man yeah he's he's gotten away with nothing I kill Merce performance was so incredible and it's really tragic what's going on with him right now at the throat cancer watching the his performance in this film yeah I was really into it because there's slight because I think that Michael Mann circumvents expectations because at first he comes off as like oh this guy's the hothead he's gonna [ __ ] everything up he's just he's a problem but he really wasn't he really was not a problem in the film he was actually the most tender part of it from a masculine view he really was and his performance I think was outstanding it's just that he had to compete with De Niro and Pacino who are legendary Val Kilmer's performance I think was equally consummate but a generous performance because he wasn't trying to steal a show but every single frame with him in it was super authentic and val kilmer was amazing in this film but especially as reaction shots with Ashley Judd when they realized that they will never see each other again I thought that was available I might be a little bit off but I do feel like there was a little bit of like crossroads going on between the subplots that both Vincent and Neil had going on because trying to make sure that the Neil was the hero yeah okay so he's lost Chris right that was his name yeah Neil lost Chris that that happened and then you see that uh Vincent almost loses his daughter you know of course so like but at the end of the movie you have the dealing you're saying that Vincent throughout the movie is going through loss and Neil's going through gain but at the end of the movie it's almost like they crossed paths and then take each other's roles because Neil loses everything at the end of the movie he loses everything but so that so does so does Chris or val kilmer as the prodigal son is the pupil yeah but I'm saying like Vincent starts to gain again at the end of the movie no because he throws it away what he throws it away at the end of the movie oh I guess because I think they both did because Justine says yeah they both did it well just Justine it's like are you gonna go I guess things ever gonna work out between us and Vincent's like I wish I could say yes but he runs and he runs so fast that's true because that's what he wants to do and the Nero can't help himself when when he gets the call I think Mia from Nate telling him where waingrow is one of my favorite scenes is going to be right uh when he gets off the phone and he's like I'm home free yeah then they go through that tunnel and there's that really really bright light from and everything just goes blue and you're like okay this this is the end of the movie and then all of a sudden he just swerves off of the highway and it's not over because it was a compulsion it's his entire life enough and I just wanted to say one last thing about that Val Kilmer's situation the Chris situation as I was saying he was the pupil that he was given a situation in which he had to decide if he could walk out on something in 30 seconds or flat and he did it and now he's going and now he's a broken man I thought that was really really amazing and really heartbreaking and transformative for for the film because I've had it added a really tender quality or component but to go back to the scene you were just talking about when they drove through go through the tunnel before the before that blue is everywhere but blue is everywhere and either hues or in like the color of sugar packets people's shirts lights but it's all it's all really nuanced you might not notice it upon first viewing but it's in every scene it's littered it's just hues everywhere it was a huge part of the movie but um no but once they go through that tunnel we noticed that the color dynamic began to get more complicated because it was white and then it was blue again but then when he goes and he makes that turn he goes into the hotel the first thing you see is this super bright hallway which is half blue and half like a teal or it was still a blueish quality and there's just bright lights of blue right I mean sorry it's just bright bright white lights right which generally if you follow color theory encompassed all of the colors so he almost had everything in that tunnel but then he sacrificed it for the blue again for his city in a way for for his fate so he almost had everything almost had every color the entire spectrum and then limited and restricted himself back to the only thing that he knows what to do which is like benjensen crime and blue but at the end of the film I mean people are still seeing blue through video screen monitors of Wayne grosse hotel room door blue was still there and he was forsaking the white for the blue then at the end of the movie we finally see a lot of red in the in the scene where Burton actually dies where the endgame happens where what what was supposed to happen must happen did happen and does we see red and white now and and its heat another thing to point and blue is in this is in the background at that last scene it's just in like a few blinking lights off in the distance that blue isn't even there and you know it's you can see the lights from the city kind of shining yeah but but there in the distance they're not necessarily bathing everything unless you count Neil's shirt at that time blue but what's it covered with at the end red is covered with heat um another thing we pointed out during that was that uh the airplanes were really really loud and there was a lot there was a lot of airplanes oh yeah any like I don't know if that's normal but there's like five airplanes I'm sure it's not normal service diabetic and tactile yes um and it's to prove that like there are many ways out of this city exactly but it's showing you every option if we take white as meaning everything on the spectrum and both colors are bathed in white and both colors need to get out of that white light because that's how the other character can see where they are and get a lock on them but they both die when they're both surprised and in the white and they both have a lock on each other and I think that is deeply poetic do you think maybe the shadow anything though cuz that's the only way that thinks I saw him was because the shadow I think so but I think that's part of like the cruel idea of fate whereas justice eventually gets its man and I don't think it's optimistic I don't think it's an optimistic thing to say on man's a man's behalf I think that what he is saying is that certain aspects or components of fate are unfair certain ones are at least unreasonable maybe not unfair but unreasonable like that America does have a a more holistic idea and but that moralistic idea is kind of empty at the same time but I think it was also deeply metaphorical using it as Airport where a bunch of planes were departing because it was a landing strip but always already explains departing for the most part and these characters like you said can never escape their roles their functions what they're doing at that moment and they don't want to escape it I believe that both characters I believe that Al Pacino's expression after he shoots Robert DeNiro dead is one of it could have just as easily been me and I would not have minded if it was I also felt like there's a little bit of him acknowledging the fact that it's it's over like yeah he liked like well there was a camaraderie huh yeah well what got him going he's actually a deep esoteric understanding between the two yeah and um what really blew the he even said a himself II he he loves he is what he's chasing after yeah and and what he's chasing after he got it he killed a part of himself then so he killed a part of himself yeah he caught the thing is chasing after and now he's got to acknowledge that he's gonna be nothing until he's got something else absolutely absolutely and the amount of things be sacrificed just for the rush or the feeling that he captured but that that hand-holding that completely shifts the dynamic to it's amazing it's incredible um here's a fun little anecdote about Michael Mann I'm not sure if it was on the making of this film or a different one but Dantes Minotti is his uh his cinematographer was setting up a scene and Michael Mann was like what the hell's with that light turn that light off and Dante was like I can't it's it's the Sun turn off the Sun yeah Michael Mann told his cameraman to turn off the Sun because it was bothering him I think that's a pretty cool anecdote gosh what do you think of the film's influence really quick there are several different filmmakers who were highly influenced by this movie but not look into specifics maybe later but just overall like in videogames - you brought up like you've I've seen I've seen the essence of heat so many times so 90 yeah um I could not stop thinking of Grand Theft Auto 5 watching this movie going on like and even the main character them in the main character of Grand Theft Auto 5 I don't want to ruin it for you know it's a it's uh it's been out for like no I mean I can say some things I'm just not gonna ruin the entirety the beginning of the game you kind of you you witness this group of people doing a heist and they essentially get caught one of the guys is given a way out but it's basically selling everything out um he's he's given a new name a new life all that stuff he's he's given a second chance and obviously it's Grand Theft Auto what do you think he did if you went right back into it and uh I mean I I feel like that was highly I think that character now that I think about it was a mixture of De Niro and Al Pacino in one yeah I really feel that's true I mean that's amazing though that the essence of it creep into video games creeps into different kinds of mediums outside of the film I've seen it in modern crime novels I've definitely seen it at least Michael Mann's bluespirit I've seen in uh in photography actually a lot a lot of still photography shots but if we are speaking specifically a film the most note the most noteworthy filmmaker who who has been infatuated by his style is certainly Christopher Nolan which is really interesting because he is extremely British he says British as they [ __ ] come and he's obsessed with this American language and there's a really great Academy panel with Michael Mann Pacino De Niro you know actually judge wasn't there I'm sorry I was thinking of Diane bandura but a bunch of people were there and they were all talking and Christopher Nolan it was really endearing to watch because he reminds me of how I would be if I was around these people like he basically asked all of them a bunch of words salad that like they thought it was like obviously overcomplicated or pretentious like it'd be like what was the methodology or the bubble blow that's what I would do - I would over complicate this movie and then Michael Mann would respond with well we just wanted to get the best possible shot oh [ __ ] I've invested way too much in my life and you're neither language there but no one was really endearing and he's really open about the fact that he steals or borrows or lifts so much from man even says like like how do you like like garner emotive feeling from cities because I don't know how to do it I just don't have you do it and that's what I do kind of idea and of course none of his Batman films was just specifically the Dark Knight would not exist without heat being the ultimate template for that film and I think that that's what makes heat so perfect because it is the perfect criteria the perfect template if you want to make the perfect epic modern crime movie follow that formula I mean if if in your mind you're thinking well that can't be true watch the scene from heat with the truck becomes completely clear like everything about that scene is Batman it just is I think it's pretty symmetrical honestly I do don't do not think I'm doggin The Dark Knight I think it's a fantastic film I think it's great I just think that it is not a redheaded stepson it is a purely great kid but it's hates child it belongs to heat it's fired as opposed to highly influential exactly highly inspired but no one will be the first to tell you that's why I don't hold it against him and it's not like directly ripped off it's just well I have to make an epic crime superhero movie and Michael Mann made the perfect formula I'd be stupid not to lift that formula and apply it to this film and I think it is somewhat symmetrical they leave in the center of it just like we had the conversation at the coffee shop you had the interrogation scene which is the one true scene that Batman Joker actually talked about their philosophy is while being separate so I didn't want to get into a whole Christopher Nolan spiel but I think it's important I do think it's important to recognize the legacy of this particular Michael Mann film as compared to other ones it's it's definitely important to point out its influence because without you even saying any of this while we were watching that movie I just felt like okay this is the movie that inspired thousands oh yeah like in such a short in last 20 years I can't it changed American cinema I couldn't like it if you didn't name a couple of movies I wouldn't be able to personally point out any movie that was inspired but I could tell you that there's plenty out there and not even be afraid for someone to like say I was wrong because I know I'm right like it just is yeah and this is Man At not only his most accessible but I think most successful at expressing and fully communicating with his audience his unique visual poetry because it's stuff like Miami Vice which I love Miami Vice I'm obsessed with that 2006 film it is super challenging and it is super unforgiving whereas heat pure it's you can watch it as a purely entertaining film just to film just about entertainment you can watch it just as a cops-and-robbers saga and it's brilliant or you can watch it with kind of a more open mind or a more readily available spirit and look at what kind of grammar that he was using to tell his visual story and just be astounded and go wow wow this is how you can tell a cops-and-robbers movie this is what you can do with these kind of archetypal like things that we're all so used to seeing you can just and not even deconstruct them in the process like he didn't do anything ostentatious he just purely told a great visual web it just exists exactly like you didn't have to do anything insane or rebellious he just had to tell a purely American I would call it an art film but it's one that that will never be recognized as such but I think it's deeply moving and poetic I think that this is how I personally feel that every movie should try to be in the sense that you know if if I like if I go home right now or in the future if I if I were to speak to my parents about heat well maybe not my mom my mom doesn't watch a lot of movies but my dad my dad's definitely seen this movie spell Pacino and De Niro my dad loves Robert De Niro um if I ask my dad about he he'll have so many positive things to say about it and he's not into artsy films he's gonna see this in the same way as he would see just about any other heist movie yeah but but I know he's gonna respect it a lot cuz that's just natural like if you talk to a lot of people who don't love films in the same way they tend to give a lot of props to the ones that deserve it but um for people like us we've watched the same movie and break it down exactly you know we enjoy it in one way but it's still enjoyable on a very surface level I think that this is like objectively man's most successful film both compositionally artistically and also just purely thematically on an entertaining very very surface level he gets across so much information and so much so many thrills so many awesome dilemmas of character so many arcs are completely expressed in this movie he doesn't leave anything hanging everyone has an important stretch or an important curve and he does it all without ostentatious Nisour attention as' and without being self-aware you're not even aware of his direction for the most part like I said the blue hues could just easily just wash over you but it's kind of cool because maybe that's unconsciously or subconsciously puts you into some kind of tranquil feeling through some the film's even in contrast to the really exciting nail-biting things are happening on the screen yet to be fair like there was a lot of things happening in the movie that I didn't feel completely connected with like a lot of really messed up stuff mmm happened and it just kind of passes by and yeah and you're just worried about De Niro and Pacino like because he's given you that tunnel vision that they have yeah you had the same exact tunnel vision very really clever yeah because it's like all this stuff's happening to them too and it's like okay if you put things into perspective and you look at what all these characters are losing and all the things that they could lose then they're idiots yeah but but because you're watching the movie you completely understand where they are you've heard the saying about naivety when you're looking through Rose tinted sunglasses well Michael Mann's got some blue tinted ones for you but you're gonna see the world in the very fatal way yeah not in a pessimistic way there's nothing pessimistic about this movie but it is certainly preordained fatalistic full of fate it's like you know where you're heading but you also know that you have to and certain pieces of dialogue drive this point home the scene where Mykelti Williamson is talking to Charlene about you know think about your son Dominic Chris chose his chose his life Dominic has not chosen his implying that Free Will exists in a Michael Mann universe which is completely challenged by the idea that Vincent and Neil that their battle that their dynamic that their war that a little private war is inescapable so it's challenged but the but the option is always there Neil could have gone to the airport Vincent could have stayed with with with Justine in the hospital that didn't have to happen but at the same time it absolutely had to so that's a really complicated almost spiritual idea that man just put there if you want to pick it up you can pick it up if you don't then just enjoy the fireworks that's awesome to me and it's an it's deeply Eastern ideology but translated through American iconography and you know what one of the first um really active scenes in the movie that guy is standing in there and the other guy comes up so he's like he's like dude chill out and then right before they're all done he shoots them anyways it's like that's almost a perfect whole film yeah waingrow had a screw loose and but it was a meal could not resist going after him yeah what and and the way that Michael Mann framed or captured the waingro character making him into a serial murderer of prostitutes making and the swastika that you like the worst possible presence that you could conjure him and call himself like you they even told that girl he was like he was like you don't understand what this is the reapers come to visit you and stuff like that and it's like whoa dude well if you had the place symbolic value to his character which I think man certainly wants you to even his death scene is his final breath was demonic that character works really really well on multiple levels because like on a surface value you just watching this movie as just a movie to enjoy there's probably a lot of people like yeah [ __ ] kill that [ __ ] you know just get rid of them they were probably super happy that that guy just [ __ ] got what he deserved but me I was so disconnected I wasn't worried about him dying you know I was like Niels well Neil why getting away [ __ ] there and I almost feel like Neil at the beginning of the movie would not have done that I feel like he learned that he knew that he learned that character flaw or that mistake along the way like that was like a compulsion like that was like a strange odd bizarre rebellious almost immature impractical response at that moment that like I think that he was afraid of the life that he was about to live and that's where we go to how fatal and Miguel he's they did say no they are they did say I don't know how to be anything else exactly I don't know if I want to I think he was signing his own death certificate at that moment that so at the same time symmetrically right sent it right and he dies he says I told you I wasn't going back or I wouldn't go back exactly imagine it could have been easily turned and Vincent would have said like say I told you I wouldn't stop like it would have been the same singing and then de niro would have been left with it with his broken life just like Vincent has left with his I'm kind of glad that this doesn't exist but you could almost like if someone were to convince you like if you didn't own this movie yourself and you watched it with a friend and he wanted to convince you you would totally believe him after this explanation or this discussion right here that oh did you know they shot an alternate ending where Al Pacino's character dies you would just believe well that's the man set it up so that you honest it honestly could have gone both ways and it would have actually pairs the best part about it it could have gone both ways with two separate characters and had the same emotional response he would have had the same emotional connection it would have had the same exact poetic meaning no matter which character fell at that moment and that's the brilliance of the characters the brilliance of the way that man uses American iconography because and gives it a gives it to us in beautiful blue hues of poetry man it's like they both existed together and the part it was amazing it was so [ __ ] moving let me ask you a more character-driven question Edie the woman that that Neil fell in love with I want to know why you think that Neil fell in love with her and why do you think Edie fell in love with him you think I think they were just too desperately lonely people who just had this attraction to each other yeah I didn't I didn't ever worry or wonder about their relationship to be honest like though our time I just felt like it was another thing to drive drive the plot forward and that's all I cared about I think amy brenneman did do a fantastic job she was super emotive and just really full of emotion and sincerity for me and I really got the idea that Neil the near I was so good at nuance so good at subtlety I think that Neil really was happy like with her I mean obviously he really was or else it wouldn't have been a heartbreaking moment where he had to when he saw Vincent running towards him at the finale and had to turn away from her in about 30 seconds um there was a specific scene that I don't like though and it was Ashley Judd like there was a little like not pointing fingers that Pacino because we've already talked about that why his performance was young amplify and so yeah there was other parts of the movie that had overacting in it what was the scene with her um the one where he finds her like at the hotel with another guy I really liked that scene but she she she she kind of freaked so she's like she's like I'm done with it like it was just out of nowhere no I would defend that perfect I would defend that that performance and that seemed only because I think that it's a mixture of being both surprised and also frustrated and angry at the fact that someone has just barged into her personal life without but it was immediately shut down like didn't matter after her I don't know it just didn't work for me I guess I think it worked fine I think right I let her decisions were based in a place of frustrated anger it definitely showed all of neilandchris share of Neil's well it's like asthma it's like your husband's [ __ ] dad is coming in the fight is war is forum and you don't know what's going on as a husband and wife thing kind of thing like that so I really did not mind that at all I thought that was actually really good decisions and Ashley Judd did a really good job at acting in his film as well everybody did from John's lawyer didn't I is more and everyone I'm not saying that any actor was bad I'm just saying that there was a couple scenes that stuck out to me for one reason or another she's got a bigger eye it's all of it we had to watch that three times because it was brilliant I actually loved but she knows performance a scenery-chewing or not I think it's brilliant I think it's like just really entertaining so in Britain great contrast to Robert De Niro's super subdued muted really rational reasonable performance about Neal I mean I did enjoy it for sure um but like I could understand if other people found it off-putting a lot of people do find it off-putting but I find it full of character but you also have to take into consideration that like a lot of movies don't go for those I don't know what it is but like um me and you read comic books and and I watch like anime and stuff like that and what would be considered overacting as normal I think it like it exists I think it's fine because imagine if Al Pacino was was acting out that from the position of a villain it would be totally accepted yeah if he was the villain and screaming his head off like that you'd be like oh that's fair that's acceptable but Michael Mann inversed that concept and made the hero more erratic irrational and unpredictable then the villain was and I also think it was supposed to catch you off guard oh yeah um because the first couple times he did it it was kind of like wait what's going on but then you get used to it and it's almost like just quirky and it's it's it's enjoyable in that sense I thought I think that both performances are amazing equally but watching it this time nothing compares to Pacino and De Niro but once again this super impressed by Val Kilmer's role like really understated and like I said generous because he never tries even when he's in a scene with Ashley Judd where he's pissed off and breaking [ __ ] he's not trying to steal any part of the spotlight and I even like the anecdotes that I believe that he was working on this and the same time as Batman Forever and the reason why he wasn't asked back as Batman was because he really didn't know a lot of his Batman lines and stuff like it really really didn't put that much effort in the Batman because he was focused on this movie because this movie is obviously way more important than a Joel Schumacher like homoerotic Batman toy commercial but once again Val Kilmer killed it he really killed it and it's even more nuanced than the narrows performance and I would say even more like kind of angry than Pacino's like it's it's a really cool little mixture he did and for as long as the movie is for the movies length it doesn't feel unforgiving in any way because I think that the pacing is also incredible like I said this is a perfect formula for a crime epic it just feels wonderful what did you think of the pacing of the film of the structure well I can say that uh you're not waiting for word to be over um so that's definitely a good thing because I can't stand when I feel like I'm enjoying a movie but it just won't end yeah and this movies just didn't give me that feeling I didn't mind sitting there even though my legs were getting a little uncomfortable I just rather shift my legs and the movie be over I'm so I'm so grateful to not have to say the words hypnotic when talking about a long movie and how that that somehow it wasn't it makes up for the time because it wasn't hypnotic it was something entirely different yeah it's enjoyable it's kind of like when you're typically composed it's like when you're sitting there you know reading a good book or playing a good video game or something like that like it could be over you you you you could just shut it and move on but I mean you ain't got nothing else to do so why it's undeniable when you watch it that you are in the presence of a classic of a new classic and it's just so great and Michael Mann was this was a made for like TV movie it was like a really like really bad like 90 minute thing originally and Michael Mann had like a decade to just think about the fantasize about how he would make this perfect film and he finally got to do it which is just so awesome and he put so much thought into each individual character in fact he calls Chris Val Kilmer's character a postmodernist meaning that he doesn't fit he's without doctrine that he's kind of learning it which is a fascinating take on that character Greg what what do you think you would take away from this movie more than any other element I mean okay so as someone who likes to believe that they can come up with interesting stories it it's nice to know that you can take a very well-structured what's the word when there's too much of something that's uh oversaturated like genre a convoluted no no no um when you take another saturated when you take an oversaturated genre okay and you approach it there's no need to be afraid that you can't do something newer interesting with it because this movie definitely showed that you can yet still archetypal elements but you're seeing them in a new light which is a blue hue because because this movie was made 95 mm-hmm which these type of movies were really popular like through the 80s and 90s and this movie was already thanks to man and freakin yeah and this movie was right in the middle of it and yet it stands out so well at least for me in comparison to many and many have seen it's both of its time and beyond like it does have a transcendental quality but that's because such a pitch-perfect formula like man nailed it absolutely nailed it what did you think of his style as a director that he did he interest you to be captivate you um I mean we've already talked about it but the way he did capture the city was something really unique for me because like I said I only get that pure interest in us any when it's something I've never seen before like if this guy was to come here and capture you know our our city yeah it would make you want to go downtown yeah and just check it out again like we've been downtown a million times and it means nothing to us but this guy reminds you that sometimes you know you got a you got to look at something as if you've never looked at it before and then he captures that really well you know with the multiple frame rates we were talking about the bizarre use of green screen so that the city behind them wouldn't be shot at the same speed as the actors yeah like yeah I can't hold a grand screen thing against them to lose 90 no I'm not holding the green screen I'm actually I'm actually I was in supporting this language and he's not not what a use of green screen in general but the no disability yeah it was very very noticeable but it was also 95 but I thought it was look I don't mind the noticeability because it was for poetic effect I understood that he was trying to do something different with the reaction shots of each actor and then you know you know cuz the city's going at different frame rates behind them and in front of them so they're at different speeds but maybe they're both like coalescing or coming to some sort of same same speed okay yeah yeah an agreement or an affirmation it's really interesting then the movie you realize that's never gonna happen but but man not you gives gives these two characters every chance to get out multiple chances yeah um yeah this movie is inspiring that's for sure oh yeah um because it's super approachable too and also does you I told you I wanted to watch a movie that makes you really think American beyond what is obviously you can like I'm an American so when I watch an American movie it's not American to me it's just a movie because nothing stands out no this is it so right here this movie is America that's why I call Michael man the greatest American director because he is so obviously and uniquely American and the best possibly poetic and thematic ways like I don't believe a European could have made this movie and perhaps that's where Nolan's greatest fault lies you have to be of American iconography to truly project what Michael Mann captures you know it's something ineffable really almost esoteric you would really like the movie Miami Vice even though Dante's Panaji is not with him that's a digital experiment with form and I don't thinks Panaji is very interested in digital filmmaking I think Dion BB or Dion Beebe is a cinematographer on that film but oh my god like it's even it's a bit more kamikaze meaning that it's definitely not as approachable as heat is but it's it's way more meditative way more challenging and unforgiving but it is America once again it is him filming cities like you've never seen before only at this time they mean different things wow this is such a fantastic movie I'm I mean I'm completely without shame and overly confident when I say that I do think that this is like the best example of American filmmaking like this is what makes us important this is what gives us our unique language this is the pinnacle of our art and I think it best reflects our people and our idealized forms of the people of literature of everything and just for people out there who are probably thinking of a thousand like really Classic Movies in there know this movie is really highly respected and not like you know minority opinion oh but um I'm saying like uh just beyond being important as an American film it's important as a modern American film yeah it's a new - which I'll definitely have to look into that term this is the first day I've ever heard that new modernist idea well you see it in the architecture it that's what the form of architecture is called I think it was it started to gain popularity in Los Angeles in the 80s and Michael Mann certainly captured that in Manhunter the new modernist architecture which kind of collide and added his film with a super stylistic complexity reminding you that you are in America in a new modernist America and that transfers over to heat as well sigh listicle II and abundantly it was amazing and yeah I think this this movie can stand toe-to-toe with The Godfather with Citizen Kane with what people would generally consider possibly superior films I think he has farmed far better than those and I think that I it's mostly because of the unique American language that he uses because I do think that Citizen Kane has some European flourishes to it The Godfather most certainly does there's a 100% like a culture within a culture as opposed to he being a hundred percent America a hundred percent it could not be made anywhere else cannot even be set anywhere else like it couldn't exist anywhere else these archetypes couldn't exist anywhere else they're not necessarily Universal they're universally American and deeply reflective of our culture yeah yeah and uh I love how it didn't have to like uh and this doesn't mean talking badly about the Godfather because that's really hard to do but um yeah The Godfather is about you know the Mafia in like so it's got that to work off of it's more about it's more of a mafia film that it is an American film and this movie it doesn't have mafia it doesn't have any backbone to work off of like that it's just yeah The Godfather would have social importance of this largely an immigrant's tale yeah whereas this is not an immigrant's tell these guys are just American they were born in America it's not about it's not about rags to riches from him again immigrants point of view which which is definitely what the Godfather was about at its heart and its spirit was about an immigrant family playing out the roles of a Greek tragedy and this isn't even like the shallow concepts that you would usually think of America because America is usually like um knows like the fans possible parts of America that like you can't put your finger on but it's in our culture and it's on our television screens everywhere like it's what we relate to the most is just hops and Robert ship this is in home America mm-hmm this is a hundred percent from the hearth and not from the hearth because that's not what we would call it I guess but the idea is there like it's just it's not the heart of America it's not the soul it's just the breath breath breath of America man is pretty interest it's the realistic life force of America as opposed to the idolized life force of America I guess that's how I'm trying to say exact same perfect line between the two even it's just really ineffable and inexpressible it's really hard to pin down exactly what makes it so beautifully American it's really hard to pin it down but you can't deny it when you see it it's like no that's that's us that's our culture in every way pop culture it's ours if it is part of our spirit it's there it's all there and it's just [ __ ] incredible how man is able to demonstrate that and he does that time and time again to differing results but he always captures some essence of America which is so [ __ ] cool like this is like I said the films like these are why we are important as as filmmakers as a filmic force to be reckoned with and I really dig that I really dig that a lot do you have any any closing thoughts on the film we have now broke in an hour um I guess like another thought that I was having was I liked how the subplots were almost condensed versions of the overarching plot just to kind of run home the idea it was almost like this unforgiving fate yeah idea like the inescapability guy who stunning with the guy who was being treated like [ __ ] yeah what was his name oh I guess his character's name was Donald and you know he's working at that restaurant and he obviously hates it but he doesn't have an option out and then he decides to try to take an option out and like without III I don't feel like he even had a single line view after he decided that and then he's dead and Dennis Haysbert was incredible in that role and it also mirrors what Al Pacino says at the conversation at the coffee shop which is that the most important part of the film where Pacino says if you make some some woman an unlucky Widow out there I ain't gonna hesitate stuff like that and he is the personification of that sentence but when they say that there's a flip side to that coin the flip side is looking right at you this is it's more than individuation there they are two faces of America beyond the pale they are amazing archetypes they're incredible and you know there was a great supporting cast the coolest part of it not the coolest part but one cool part was that a Tom Noonan was in it briefly in a really cool scene of course he played the red dragon or Francis Dolarhyde in Manhunter but you also had Ted Levine as Bosco one of the chinos boys and Ted Levine of course played a Buffalo Bill from The Silence of the Lambs so you had two aspects of the Hannibal Lecter legacy in there too on opposite sides of the law which is pretty cool as well this absolutely fantastic film everybody did an incredible job on the film did you have any other closing thoughts um no I mean uh no I just feel that like we could talk about this movie for like another hour but those who have stuck with us this long we need to respect their time man we might revisit this movie because we're considering doing like a series on like revisiting films but that won't be for a while but I think we'd be dug into a lot here and there's there's so much that you can bite off that it's surprising because it's it's non it's not intimidating it's not like it it's approachable it's a super approachable art film to me yeah my only closing thought is that if you're the type of person that likes to make lists for movies I would add this to your must-see Americans like if you ever have a foreign friend who says show me what you believe is an American film this this should be right there alongside all the other favorites like if this isn't on your list then I don't know what to tell you and I will add to what he's saying you don't have to agree number one on your list or else you're an idiot there you go there you go what the ended the stalker talk with if you don't like this movie then you don't appreciate I mean if there's ever a video where we don't you degrade you and criticize you then you know and we're not they know we're sellouts so if if you do it okay it not liking stalker to us means that you don't like film then if you don't like heat you don't we don't marry you like America like America oh man well like they say don't don't talk don't talk about uh don't cover any movie that you can't talk about in an hour and six minutes flat that says that's it there's a flip side of that coin when I press the stop button but thanks a lot for watching you guys and there's actually a good amount of Michael Mann content on this channel already I got videos on thief on Miami Vice on collateral just to name a few Manhunter a lot there's even a playlist that should be appearing in the corner if it hasn't already appeared yet just called Michael Mann study group give that up give that a watch if you're interested in his film thank you so much for watching this video crush that like button share it to the world subscribe and thank you Craig for being around man alright thank you thank you she's got a big [Laughter]

Channel: your cult boyfriend

Views: 1,575

Rating: 4.8709679 out of 5

Keywords: Heat, 1995, Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, Michael Mann, Dante Spinotti, Analysis, Style, Ashley Judd, Blue, Cinematography, Review, Film, Movies, Diane Venora, Amy Brenneman, Jon Voight, Natalie Portman, Tom Sizemore, Crime, Action, Heist, Robbery, Shootout, William Fichtner, Masterpiece, Best, Greatest, Acting, Dark Knight, Batman, Christopher Nolan, American, Val Kilmer, Miami Vice, Manhunter, heat analysis, Michael mann analysis, heat movie, heat video essay, crime films, film criticism

Id: lNtqxEQ-9oY

Length: 66min 27sec (3987 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 02 2018