Developments in the UFO/UAP Phenomenon with Avi Loeb

you have fallen into Event Horizon with John Michael godier [Music] in today's episode John is joined by Professor Avi Loeb Avery Loeb is the Frank B bird Junior professor of science at Harvard University chair of Harvard's Department of astronomy founding director of Harvard's black hole initiative and director of The Institute for Theory and computation within the Harvard Smithsonian Center for astrophysics he also chairs the advisory committee for the Breakthrough star shot initiative serves as a science theory director for all initiatives of the Breakthrough prize Foundation as well as chair of the board on physics and astronomy of the national academies he is the author of four books and over 700 scientific papers he is an elected fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences the American physical society and the International Academy of astronautics in 2012 time selected lobe is one of the 25 most influential people in space Avi Loeb welcome back to the program thanks for having me it's a great pleasure now Dr there has been a major development in the field of UAP which the Galileo project is actively working to study and we'll get to updates on that in a bit but we have a whistleblower that is claiming from some position of credibility that the US government does indeed have recovered materials from and associated with UAP if that's the case then the government needs to turn those over to the scientific Community for open study right yeah I mean the science makes progress based on evidence or materials that it can examine and in this case it's hearsay what David the grush talks about is based on documents or what people the independent people told him that's not sufficient evidence scientifically and but on the other hand it guides people in Congress to seek that evidence because apparently even the old domain anomaly resolution office claims that they have never seen any evidence to that effect so that means that the evidence if it exists is hidden from View and we better expose it because any such debris from an extraterrestrial civilization has nothing to do with National Security obviously you can benefit from studying it because you will have an advantage over other nations that do not have that information but that that is really not the right approach if when we learn that the most of the ordinary matter in the universe is hydrogen that was PhD thesis by Cecilia pankopashkin at Harvard the first one in astronomy about a century ago it was published in scientific journals it was not the preview of the US president to know it and so anything about the universe about our Cosmic neighborhood should be knowledge shared by all humans and that's the right approach it's simply inappropriate if someone withholds that information when it has nothing to do with their National Security it doesn't adhere to National borders because any visitor from far away would not care about how we split the geographical territories within earth I mean that makes very little that is very insignificant from a cosmological point of view so um if there is any truth to what David Gersh is talking about then we should all know it and I hope the Congress will take the relevant steps towards making it public but there is also another possibility that he was provided information that was fabricated because there is a special secret section of government developing very Advanced Technologies they invented the story that these are actually extraterrestrial in Origins so that nobody would realize that it was the US government doing it in order to rule out this possibility we really have to have access to either the materials or the data that is substantiating that claim of course it could always be a false flag the 70 or 80 year false flag actually that look look at these aliens but don't look at our stealth fighter you know something along those exactly or they have recovered something uh that they can't identify and maybe they can't even back engineer it if it is technological right well it's supposed you know there are potentially objects coming from the sky that were not manufactured technologically and I can imagine and objects from Interstellar space that do not belong to the solar system entering the solar system and in fact we know that if they have roughly a size of a meter we discovered meteors from Interstellar space with my student Amir siraj of that size and we estimated that they impact the earth once a year I mean the small size sub meter scale but if you consider a meter scale it's once a decade and Once A decade is a rather long time you can't really find it easily unless you realize that it was moving very fast before it impacted the Earth and we know that at least for two meteors one from 2014 another one from 2017 that collided with Earth and were moving really fast and we assigned them as being Interstellar and in fact we are planning an expedition to the Pacific Ocean this summer to retrieve anything that was left from the first Interstellar meteor from 2014 and we hope to be able to figure out what its composition was because it was tougher in material strength than all other space rocks from the solar system so that's one way to find the evidence for technological origin by studying the composition of objects that arrive into the solar system from far away and in fact the first Interstellar meteor was moving faster than 95 percent of all the stars in the vicinity of the sun obviously there are more small objects than big objects so when you go down to scales that are much smaller than a meter there are many impacts almost every year and if you go to a scale of a meter it's once per decade but the U.S government monitors objects falling from the sky because they want to figure out whether they are rocks whether they are spy balloons or perhaps drones or ballistic missiles they have to know that so they will be the first to recognize an unusual object if it came from Interstellar space and of course if it appears unusually doesn't mean that it's artificial it could be originating from an astrophysical natural origin that is quite different than the solar system for example if you have two neutron stars colliding the material that is ejected from the system is rich in neutrons and you could get fragments that are very dense made mostly of neutrons that then Decay through radioactivity and make some bullets that are moving with very high material strength and you can imagine relics from that in interstellar space you can imagine bullets produced by Supernova explosions when the core of a massive star collapses and then bounces back ejecting the envelope of the star you could imagine that in the blast wave that is produced that is sweeping material from the outside there is fragmentation into smaller pieces and perhaps some Interstellar objects are made this way we just don't know there might be many different environments that are exotic the key would be to figure out whether an object like that that came from Interstellar space is natural or artificial and one way to do that is through the composition another is if you have a relic that is big enough so that you can examine the structure you know in my last class at Harvard I asked the students suppose we recover a gadget from another civilization and it has buttons on it would you press a button and half of the class said no way I mean we are worried that it will of any catastrophe that it may cause and never press a button on an Interstellar Gadget the second half of the class said of course we will I mean we are very curious to know what will happen if we press a button maybe it's GPT 100 it will reveal some important secrets about the universe if you press a button and then one of the students asked me and what would you do Professor Lowe would you press the button or not and and I said well as a scientist I would treat it like an intelligent creature that went through a trauma I will not engage with it physically until I figure it out so I'll take it to a laboratory and analyze examine it so of course if you find a big enough piece and you see that it's technological you can learn much more about it now an interesting question is when David the grush talks about Crash sites are they associated with natural or artificial objects that crashed because I can imagine Space trash that is technological in origin you know we produce a lot of trash in space and and Voyager 1 and 2 will within a billion years will we look like a space trash and they can collide with the planet and survive to the ground and then someone will find them they will not be functional the other possibility of course is a space trash of natural Origins so the question is how well can the government discriminate between these two possibilities and maybe they can't well we don't know anything about their testing methods we don't know anything about the data collection on any such object you know we don't know it so it could just simply be something of mistaken identity in other words well we pick up this piece of slag that's weird but it's still just a piece of slag somebody made or is it actually of technological origin it seems to me though if it's very fragmentary it's only a chunk of something it would be very very difficult to reconstruct what it is based on one chunk of material if it's technological so you're you're dealing with I've made the Synology before you're dealing with a piece of piece of plan plastic from a television but it tells you nothing about the television it's just a piece of plastic that's right because when it collides with the Earth it basically melts just to give you a sense a meter size Interstellar meteor releases as much energy as the Hiroshima atomic bomb so it will definitely melt there would be a huge Fireball and not much could survive that the explosion of course it could be hardened if it's technological in origin we might never know and the thing about something you find on the ground without noticing it impact the ground is that you don't know at which speed it came the crater that it produces depends only on the amount of energy that it brings upon impact and you can trade speed for mass in terms of the total energy so we don't unless you see it coming down and you figure out that it's moving very fast must have been Unbound to the Sun and could not be for example a spacecraft that the humanity sent you can't really tell its Origins and I would argue that in this context it's not the documents it's not the eyewitness testimonies it's not people that tell you that there is a section of government studying this that matters it's really what what do they have at their possession and hopefully this testimony would lead to the release of the information it's possible that it will embarrass that section of government because once they release it as long as it's kept secret they can make the case that it could be extraterrestrial an argument once they release it to the scientific Community there will be an explanation that is rather mundane for this material now let me ask you an off-the-wall question so if somebody knocks on your door from the government and they say look we do have materials and we'd like your opinion but you can't talk about it would you accept or refuse the offer I will have to think about it it depends what it involves my tendency is to only consider open data open evidence so it can be shared with the rest of the scientific Community it really depends on the context and the issue that I have with classified data is that if I later collect my own data through the Galileo project through the expedition that I'm leading and it turns out that we recover information that is similar to the one that was disclosed to me under a secrecy then I will not be able to discuss it on the other hand if that if I'm not exposed to the classified data nobody can claim that I'm revealing secrets so there is a benefit to being open throughout and that is my tendency I have never been exposed to any classified information in fact today I was asked by an email how come my work on omuamua coincided with the New York Times report in December 2017 and was it the government that alerted me to the possibility that might have been technological in origin and I explained no because Obama was discovered in October actually in October 19 2017 and shortly afterwards I was very intrigued because I wrote a paper a decade earlier forecasting that we should not expect any rocks from other planetary systems to be discovered by the pan Stars telescope that found omua and so that was intriguing that it found something from Interstellar space and and then this object looks so weird it you know it had a very extreme shape it was reflecting more than expected and didn't have a commentary tale and so all together I was intrigued and immediately initiated a plan to observe it in the radio to see if it's artificial in origin turns out that a few weeks before the New York Times article there was an article in Scientific American that talked about my suggestion that this object might be artificial so clearly no correlation whatsoever with the government but it is interesting that this testimony by David grosh comes just at the just before we are about to Embark in this expedition to the Pacific Ocean to search for the relics of the first Interstellar meteor so you know if someone else is inspired by my work and God bless them I'm glad that the more people are talking or looking for such relics the better but definitely I you know I'm following my own ideas and as an independent scientist and I'm really reluctant to sacrifice that freedom for the benefit of looking at the classified data the Momoa does not work on federal government schedules unless it either wants taxes or otherwise but if it had it would have been moving much much more slowly when does the Expedition happen how far off are we it would be this summer so there will be a diary that I will maintain on the medium.com where I will report about the whereabouts of this Expedition and how where we are and whether we are finding anything it's a very challenging task because the ocean is a mile deep at that location and we're talking about many kilometers in size and so we are you know if indeed the object melted into tiny droplets they should be millimeter in size and it's very challenging to collect them after a decade from the ocean floor but we developed the machinery and we have the really the very best people in the world for such Expeditions so I'm very excited about it and and we'll do our best and of course my concern is that we we will find only Plastics from humans in the ocean Because by the year 2050 there will be more mass in Plastics than mass in fish in the ocean so just be careful when you order fish at the restaurant in the year 2050 because it will probably contain Plastics in its belly so I'm very hopeful that aside from Plastics and aside from volcanic ashes that may very well be out there we will be able to identify new types of particles that were left over from the meteor at the location of the meteor that of course the way to discriminate them is that we will find them only where we expect the meteor to have fragmented rather than in a control sample somewhere else and we will allocate several weeks for this Expedition it will be very exhaustive and we'll do our best we also have a second meteor that we're planning to follow on and whatever we retrieve in terms of a sample will be brought back to Harvard College Observatory I secured a place to put it such that if any scientific team around the world is interested in analyzing it we can loan it to them but we will be in full control and this is a scientific Mission no it has no commercial value and of course if we find any Gadget I will put it on display at the Museum of Modern his Modern Art in New York City what are the protocols for when you find something ouch I want to note here that this is not the first time this has happened the NOAA has actually recovered a meteorite or meteorite material from the ocean floor before so there's a good chance that you'll come back with something here once you find something coming up off the ocean floor what are your protocols for isolation and keeping it from contamination and all that what's the plan for that right so I wrote a memo to all team members in which I explained that we need to follow a very strict protocol where I will be in charge authorizing any use of the sample that we collect but there will always be at least two members of the team present whenever material is added or taken away from the box and we want to avoid any suspicion that there was salting of the sample by someone and just to maintain the scientific Integrity of this project and once we bring it back I have a group of experts at Harvard University that I solicited and they have access to the best instruments that can analyze the composition and anything we find will be made public and you will know about it and we will publish it in scientific journal that's that are peer reviewed this is a team effort it's um the Expedition itself costs about a million and a half dollars and I receive the donation that allowed the this funding and if we are successful we will continue searching for more Interstellar meteors and the advantage of this search is that we know the object was moving really fast such that it couldn't have been bound to the sun and the first meteor was actually moving faster than 95 percent of all the stars in the vicinity of the Sun so it moved that more than 60 kilometers per second outside the solar system and of course that would be a natural consequence of some propulsion that it may have had if it if it was a spacecraft now to go back to the recent controversy over materials that have been recovered say the government says all right you want to see them this is what we have Dr Loeb analyze these is the Galileo project ready or could be made ready to study materials of potentially alien origin handed over by the US government yes we do have have the machinery for example even on the boat we will have what is called an xrf an x-ray fluorescence device where that shines x-rays on the sample and from the scintillations can tell what the composition is but once we bring it to Harvard there are many other instruments state of the art instruments that can allow us to analyze those materials and we definitely have the expertise and the instrumentation necessary to examine materials in the case of the rest of the Galileo project we we are using primarily cameras in the infrared Optical radio and then we have audio sensors that are looking at the sky for objects moving through the sky so that's not necessarily learning about their material composition but just trying to look for objects that are different from birds natural objects different from drones balloons or spacecraft or Rockets or airplanes that are human made and we don't really expect anything we don't need to understand extraterrestrial Technologies in order to find them all we need to do is exclude the possibility that they might be natural or human-made that's all and then of course the second question is okay well they don't look in terms of their maneuvering capabilities in terms of their images they don't if they don't look like natural or human-made objects that are terrestrial then the next step is to learn what they are and if you can't put your hands on them then perhaps we need higher resolution images and monitoring them more carefully and that's the whole advantage of having a systematic study because you're not dependent on anecdotal reports that were unexpected the way that the arrow is studying right now all these reports from the past cannot be Revisited the instruments that were used were not calibrated were not under full control they just accidentally saw something unusual and you can analyze that data and it will never be conclusive because you can't revisit it you can't reconstruct it unless it's very high quality to start with perhaps then you can say something in fact Sean Kirkpatrick at his Congressional testimony said that they have two teams one of intelligence experts the other one of scientists and Engineers that are analyzing each of these events and more recently he said that two to five percent percent of all the UAP the unidentified anomalous phenomena are truly anomalous the rest are probably balloons drones objects that they can figure out and so we're talking if they have more than 800 such reports by now we are talking only about several tenths of them being truly anomalous and the question is what are they but if it's past reports we can't really get more data so you're sort of stuck when you deal with anecdotal past reports it's much better to do a systematic study with instruments that are calibrated that you have full control over we have that in the Galileo project we have one Observatory operating right now as we speak and collecting data 24 7 and we analyze data with artificial intelligence software and then over the past couple of weeks I was in contact with people who are willing to fund and five additional copies of the first Observatory placing them in different locations so that's very encouraging and the hope is to make tens of those copies maybe a hundred so that we will get very good statistics within a year or two on unidentified anomalous phenomenon figure out what is the true nature of those rare events that Sean Kirkpatrick calls truly anomalous so instead of asking the government to do it for us which is really the lazy approach you know you can sit on your chair and say I think this is that or I have an opinion and why don't I press on the government to declassify that well that's that has been the approach in the past but it didn't lead us anywhere and a much better approach is for for us to collect our own data that is open to the public and hopefully we'll figure out what these objects are now on placement of these sensors and the five new sensors that's that's quite a leap actually on observing three to six how do you define the placement of them do you actually go and look at data that I don't know move on or somebody like that says oh there's a hot spot here that people are seeing are reporting a lot of stuff or do you have a much more neutral way of doing it if in other words distribute them evenly or something like that what's the methodology there yeah we do have a subcommittee within the Galileo project looking into past reports and the one thing you you find is that the rate of reports is correlated with population density it's also correlated with special holidays during the 4th of July you have many more report basically what it tells you is that the more eyes are looking at the sky the more reports you get that will be a natural consequence of having balloons for example everywhere the Director of National Intelligence said in the latest 2022 report to Congress about UAP that they believe about half of them are balloons and the US government later on shut down four such objects obviously I'm happy that they shoot down some balloons and they identify half of them to be balloons because it reduces the clutter in the sky for the Galileo project I mean as a scientist I I really don't care about any human-made objects out there and balloons make up a substantial fraction of them so we will have always to filter out those obvious targets that are out there and we are also using satellite data from planet labs and looking down on Earth especially in areas that are not very heavily populated because if there are these uaps they might be everywhere and then you have less confusion in for example the Sahara Desert or in the South Pole Antarctica now what struck you about crucial's testimony or what is what he's saying publicly I guess we don't get to see the testimony uh that he made the Congress or anything like that but what struck you about that as being worth calling the government out and saying hey show these materials yeah so I think it was very credible what he said was verified and Inspector General also referred to it seriously and so my impression is it was reported properly there was no exaggeration what he said is what he heard he did not invent anything there was no fantasies in his report the only fundamental question is whether the people that informed him do not really know what they are talking about or maybe know what they are talking about but just fabricate a story for him to believe okay so is what is the source the primary source of information in this case and I wouldn't be surprised if it's all a story I wouldn't be surprised because there might be sections of government that want to plant the stories in the public domain in you know for other countries to believe in until I see the evidence so that's the fundamental question and of course there is a possibility that he's referring to something real and it's the task of the US Congress to get a hold of it and then let the American people know and it would be amazing to figure it out my fundamental belief is that government does not have does not have conspiracies that it's much more likely to be incompetent so if I were to imagine what's behind this is that they did retrieve something but this something has an origin that is not clear they call it extraterrestrial but they don't really know what it is and it's not as if it's a device that is functional and then you know the story builds up within government around it but doesn't necessarily mean that you know indeed we have access to a craft from another civilization that would be my simplest interpretation but on the other hand it may well be that they were hiding it so the only way to figure it out is for them to show us the evidence rather than us speculating about it or for us to find similar evidence on our own there is no reason why the US government should be the only agency finding those things if they came from very large distances tens of thousands of light years away and the only reason that it would be the first organization to find them is because the scientific Community was ridiculing this subject and saying that even extraordinary claim requires an extraordinary evidence but the point is if you're not seeking the evidence then you will never find it it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and in fact I don't think that an extraterrestrial intelligence is an extraordinary claim I think it's the other way around because I don't think that we are special or unique or privileged it's um I think the fundamental assumption should be that things like us existed billions of years ago they could have sent the space probes that would have arrived To Us by now and to find out we just need to look at our backyard whether there are any objects that arrive from our Cosmic neighborhood the Von Neumann 3D printer if you want to cross vast distances of space all you need is time if you're if you're a computer you don't care about time so much so you can then cover the entire galaxy with 3D printers in just a few million years it's sub light speeds right so that's a different that's an approach that doesn't require to launch too many probes yourself but I calculated that you know we are currently investing two trillion dollars a year in military budgets if we were to listen to the words of John Lennon imagine all the people living in peace and we would allocate the Surplus to space exploration two trillion dollars a year then by the end of this Century we can send the probe towards every star in the Milky Way galaxy we have the means to do that within one century so all you need is one civilization out there if you roll the dice of Technology billions of times on planets similar to the Earth surely there could have been one civilization that did that and we can find the relics because it takes less than a billion years to Traverse the entire Milky Way galaxy so if they form the billions of years before us the relics should be all around us and whether they will be functional devices or space trash remains to be seen and potentially crashes on Earth maybe just Space trash or this meteor that I'm going after because it was not maneuvering Beyond just colliding with Earth but there could also be functional devices and if you imagine a civilization that is more advanced than just sending a probe towards every Star what they can do is send fewer probes that replicate themselves and sort of like dandelion seeds that one seed gives rise to a dandelion flower that produces many more seeds and so it could be an exponential process once you start it and that could be a very efficient method of basically seeding the entire Milky Way galaxy with whatever you want if you have 3D printers with AI so we don't know if there was an Interstellar gardener that seeded our neighborhood with probes and rather than have an opinion let's just check let's hope that they are dandelions and not outright invasive Weeds now you could in principle if you had such a device that has populated the Galaxy van Neumann style and it's printing out you know if it can self-replicate it can print out anything so it's printing out UAP that are checking in on a particularly interesting inhabited exoplanet like Earth it could also in principle print out an organism right like a living organism an alien so to speak it could actually print that out in principle right yeah in principle what we're talking about is similar to biology in fact for Neumann came with the idea of automata self-replicating machines that do not produce the same identical copy every generation he imagined updating the information every generation which is similar to a what nature does with mutations and he did that he came with the idea a year before the double helix structure of the DNA was discovered we now know that nature biology does exactly that make copies with modifications to the information that is transferred from one generation to the next and you can imagine technological devices imitating nature imitating biology in a way that is more suitable to Interstellar travel because as I mentioned before biology needs water at least Life as we know it needs water it also cannot survive very long under bombardment by energetic particles cosmic rays in interstellar space so what you might want to do is develop technologies that can be hardened can survive the journey are not getting bored you don't need them to replicate while they're traveling only when they get to their destination to a planet they they can use the raw materials there to make many more copies and send them elsewhere and that would be a very efficient way of growing exponentially in terms of the number of seeds that are planted within the Milky Way galaxy and if only one civilization realized that that would be sufficient that within a few billion years the entire Milky Way galaxy will be full of whatever they planted and they could potentially produce biological life as well although many scientists believe that it happened randomly on Earth there is still the possibility of panspermia the transfer of life and there is a natural origin for that we know that there was a martian rock that was analyzing the about 20 years ago to have survived the journey from Mars without getting heated to more than 40 degrees about the freezing temperature of of water 40 degrees Celsius and then therefore if it had life in it if there were tiny microbes in it the tiny astronauts they could have survived the journey and you could have brought life to Earth from Mars This Rock demonstrates that possibility although there wasn't any life found in it that came from Mars but because Mars lost its atmosphere but early on in Mars it had liquid water so it could have been the case that life started on Mars and was brought to Earth and we are all martians and when Elon Musk talks about dying on Mars it's just like a kid that wants to go back to his family home childhood home and either we don't know if we started on Mars another thing to keep in mind is Mars lost its atmosphere about two billion years ago at the middle of its lifespan and if life Advanced twice as fast on Mars than on Earth before it lost its atmosphere then there could have been creatures like us on Mars when it still had liquid water and how can we find out well one way to find out is to go into the caves on the Martian landscape these are lava tubes and check if there are any markings on the walls or maybe skeletons hidden there because they were the environment in those caves in those lava tubes were protected from cosmic rays from Impact by asteroids I calculated that over the past two billion years every square kilometer was impacted by asteroids on Mars because there was no atmosphere with them the amount of energy that was released for every square kilometer is like 20 Hiroshima atomic bombs so anything on the surface would have been ground to dust we cannot find any Relic from it but under the ground in those caves Lava Tubes perhaps we would find some evidence for early life maybe early human-like creatures over there that's interesting so it is in principle possible or we at least we can't rule it out that there may have been a faster developing civilization on Mars that may have left evidence but we can't find it because it's been pulverized on the surface but if we go below the surface we might find an artifact or alternately some passing alien civilization decided to leave some sort of Tombstone or message on the moon where it will just sit there right I mean all you need for that to happen is that the intelligent life started on Mars twice as fast as on Earth which is not a crazy number a factor of two is not astronomical so we have never searched in those instead NASA sends those probes like the perseverance Rover to the surface and collect a sample and throws it on the ground and then we have to wait a decade before it might return to Earth and that's not really the right approach we need to send probes into those Lava Tubes we need to take a sample of the soil and put a drop of water in it and look at it with a microscope there are different approaches for searching for life rather than the way it was done so far now one thing we know is that there is a crashed Flying Saucer on Mars because we put it there and it was crashed deliberately because it was frivolous it had served its purpose so it just flies off and goes off on its own and crashes is it possible that that's what we're seeing with UAP and specifically these claims of crashes that it's actually used material that's being discarded yeah definitely that could be the case or it could be material that belongs to a technological object that is not functioning anymore so either it was done on purpose or by chance because this object is not functioning anymore I should say that a very effective Rocket Fuel is water because if you break the water using an electric current that for example you can make out of sunlight using the photoelectric effect if you break the water molecules into oxygen and hydrogen then you can use the hydrogen or oxygen to fuel a rocket that's why Finding water on the moon or Mars could be as important as finding oil on Earth it could fuel the economies there the other advantage of following the water is that you might find evidence for life Frozen in the water ice that you find on mars or elsewhere where there used to be liquid water and once again I come back to these Lava Tubes because inside of them it's possible that there are still some organisms that are Frozen inside this solid eyes that we can find so I think there is a lot to explore even within the solar system about life beyond Earth that we haven't done and asking where is everybody without even looking through a telescope or without checking our backyard for objects or without going to the cosmic Street near us and looking around you know that is really presumptuous you know Elon Musk was saying in an interview just last month he said you know I'm a space guy I know everything about space and I haven't seen any evidence for aliens and to me that was remarkable a remarkable statement because you know the region that Elon Musk explored is just around the orbit of the Earth around the Sun and it's a quadrillion times smaller than the size of the observable universe it's sort of like the Russia between the size of the head of a pin and the distance to the most the the most distant on planet in the solar system so imagine an ant that is exploring the head of a pin and tries to make a statement about the outer planets in the solar system it's it must be a very presumptuous ant so Elon Musk saying I don't see evidence for aliens just because he looked around here that is really inappropriate especially since he hasn't been searching and my whole point is there might be small objects you know objects need to be bigger than a football field in order for us to detect them within the orbit of the Earth around the Sun by a reflection of sunlight that's you know we've never launched even Starship is not as big as a football field so we can't see objects smaller than that and there might be a lot of them many more than 100 meters in size if we are really at the beginning only over the past decade we found the first Interstellar objects and in my forthcoming book Interstellar I discussed the implications the benefits for Humanity you know I'm an optimist I believe that in self-fulfilling prophecies and so if we believe in a better future we might actually realize it and and one way to inspire us is by finding evidence for other civilizations that went through the same technological Evolution as we did and if we look at what they produced it will give us a glimpse at our future something that we can aspire to be yeah I can't imagine I mean people have always predicted apocalyptic damage to society by knowing that that alien civilizations exist I don't see it they say it'll collapse the world's religions but most of them allow for it you know they allow for the idea or they don't mention it at all well there should be some sense of natural selection in interstellar space you know many civilizations probably perished they came to exist and then died either because of self-inflicted wounds you know just imagine some of the world wars not ending the way we ended them or a pandemic that is much more catastrophic than covid-19 or some nuclear war or or maybe some AI misbehaving in ways that are catastrophic so the point about the longevity in interstellar space is that it's given to those who are not subjected to a single point catastrophe to to those civilizations that are that decide to venture into space and spread their seeds in many locations so that they will not disappear and it's up to us to decide whether we want such a future within a billion years just 20 percent of the age of the Earth the Sun will boil off all the oceans on Earth so we will not survive and obviously other planets around stars that form billions of years before the sun those habitable planets that look like Earth were already sterilized and there must have been cries for help from those civilizations that perished on those planets there must have been spacecraft living in an exodus a lot of biological creatures wanted to leave the planet there was not enough room for everyone but we were not around if it happened billions of years ago and we couldn't hear those cries for help and my guess is there must be a lot of such civilization that were not Advanced enough to leave their Planet they died when the star evolved when some Supernova exploded nearby when a black hole became extremely bright by creating a cloud of gas in their vicinity many tragedies in Cosmic history that we are not aware of so then you ask yourself who survived well those that survived those that arrived to our backyard are probably the successful ones they were selected to maintain their longevity and we can learn from them and we didn't reach them we didn't even exit the solar system we are currently you know our most advanced spacecraft that are heading towards Interstellar space they only reached a tenth of a percent of the size of the solar system they still have a thousand times larger distance to go through before they will exit to Interstellar space so that's where we are and if we find something from someone else then it would likely represent and technologies that are far superior to ours because they had the benefit of billions of years ahead of us is it in principle possible and to go into sci-fi author mode is it in principle possible to have technological panspermia or in other words could the beginning of life on earth a biogenesis have been artificial and we are one of the seeds of course Evolution and evolutionary processes take over from there and it goes in all sorts of different directions but the very first beginnings of life could that have been artificially planted definitely that's a possibility of course it doesn't solve the origin of life because you still had the gardener the question about the gardener where did it come from and someone must have it's like the Chicken and the Egg problem someone must have started the process okay so but it is possible that the life was Seated on Earth for example just to give an example around the time that Mars lost its atmosphere Earth developed oxygen large quantities of oxygen in its atmosphere the obviously that oxygen was produced by cyanobacteria but it's not clear what triggered that very sharp prize in the abundance of oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere what triggered the cyanobacteria to produce to change the composition of the atmosphere without the oxygen we wouldn't exist complex animals wouldn't to be there so it's still an open question and you can imagine someone triggering the just the change in the composition of the Earth's atmosphere because they already know that this leads to more complex animals and then perhaps they decide decided to trigger that there are many ways to change the history of life on the planet and I went through an interesting sequence of factors of 10 in terms of our history so five years ago GPT one was introduced by open Ai and it contained about 100 million parameters today gpt4 has a million times more parameters it's the capabilities are growing exponentially 50 years ago 10 times farther back the final mission of NASA's Apollo program Apollo 17 had humans setting foot on the Moon 500 years ago Nicolas Copernicus proposed that planets orbit the Sun and the Earth is not at the center of the universe 5 000 years ago human history was recorded for the first time fifty thousand years ago Homo sapiens left Africa and replaced the indigenous neanderthals in Europe and then ten times farther back neanderthals originated from Africa and then five million years ago the last split between humans and the chimpanzees bonobos took place and it gave humans 23 pairs of chromosomes compared to 24 for Apes ten times farther back around 66 million years ago a 10 kilometer asteroid the size of Manhattan Island hit the earth and extinguished three quarters of all species on Earth 10 times farther back half a billion years ago Earth went through the Cambrian explosion of species when all major animals started to appear and then five billion years ago the sun form out of the collapse of a gas cloud and then I asked my class when I mentioned it to them what happened 50 billion years ago 10 times farther back they didn't know what we do know is that the Universe did not exist 50 billion years ago we don't know what preceded it we may never know and there's that's a whole subject in and of itself but well it could have been created in the laboratory of quantum engineers and once we will have unification of quantum mechanics and gravity we might understand how to create a universe in the laboratory an interesting feature about our universe is if you take a small region in this expanding Universe the energy associated with the expansion the kinetic energy of the expansion is exactly equal and opposite in sign to the gravitational binding energy so it sort of has zero energy and perhaps it's possible to create such baby universes in the laboratory out of nothing without investing too much but we don't really know we don't know the conditions necessary to make baby universes because we don't have a predictive theory of quantum gravity another realization might have it and if we realize that our universe was created by another civilization then it's sort of like making babies that can give birth to new babies new generation and that will solve the origin of the big bad problem I think it would be it would be the ultimate comeback of the copernican principle if it turns out that someone had created this universe in order to escape a dying universe and we are just a byproduct of that we're just an accident well but the the amazing thing is it gives us an inspiration to create more universes so you know the story never ends and and we are up to a brilliant future you know when if we create life in a baby universe that we made in our Laboratories it would be that would make existence all more amazing now I have two last questions for you before we run out of time first is any candidates yet with from The Observatory sitting on top of Harvard we have not seen yet anything that looks are not truly anomalous and I just asked before before we started to speak I I had a zoom conversation with my postdoc and I asked him to let me know if he sees anything because he is analyzing the data that we get from The Observatory so so far I have nothing to report about a normal truly anomalous objects but of course once we see something we'll write a paper about it that will be made public we will not hide it all you need is one now my last question is do you think personally do you think that we are at a turning point with this Revelation that maybe there are materials to study that we can Lobby the government to show us do you think this is the turning point where we start to take close techno signatures very seriously well I was asked this morning you know every day I have of order 5 to 10 interviews and requests for me to write things and so this morning I was asked by Wired Magazine to make a prediction for 2024 and I said that it's quite possible that the within a year we will have indisputable evidence for technologically manufactured objects that came from outside of this Earth from another civilization from Interstellar space and the reason I say that is because I will be leading an expedition to the Pacific Ocean looking for that there is the Galileo project collecting data and there is this possibility that David grush was speaking about something that really exists that there are materials there is clear evidence for something that the government keeps secret and my hope is that in the 2024 State of the Union Address of President Biden he will talk not just about the State of the Union but also about the state of the universe and will say fellow Americans we are not alone I think we are in for a very interesting year indeed Dr love thank you once again for checking in with us and I look forward to watching this unfold and having future conversations with you about it my pleasure Event Horizon and my channel are now available as a podcast on Apple podcasts Spotify and YouTube memberships early ad free episodes bonus episodes and sleep focused content sign up now by clicking the links below to your platform of choice foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music]

Channel: Event Horizon

Views: 402,957

Keywords: david grusch, UAP Task Force, non human intelligence, john michael godier, godier, event horizon, avi loeb

Id: 6Fs9C0rvUm0

Length: 55min 43sec (3343 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 08 2023