Delta Force Operator Tyler Grey | Mike Ritland Podcast Episode 121

uh hitting solder City again sarkawi Target which was common house the most gunfire I'd heard at one time by far and we were kind of at a tactical conundrum because you had a hallway and at the end of the hallway was a door you know maybe it was 70 meters I don't know but you can't hook a grenade you know into a door so the only way to do it is I'm gonna shoot you know through the wall and then at the door frame to where we can just go up close enough to hook a grenade in that that was it was the only thing we could do I remember him going down to grab a grenade and then that was it everything exploded [Music] [Music] welcome to mic drop the podcast where relevancy is irrelevant and we don't give a [ __ ] about your feelings ladies and gentlemen as always it's both an honor and a pleasure to welcome my next guest to the podcast he spent 10 years on active duty and that's between the second ranger battalion and Delta or KAG a total of three combat deployments he's the co-owner and involved with Specter which specializes in high-end r d for top tier operational units he's an actor producer and director on the hit CBS show Seal Team and he took bang the gray man to the absolute Next Level ladies and gentlemen welcome to the stage Tyler Gray hello thanks for coming on here yeah I know you're a busy guy and uh and you've been kind of burning at both ends here for the last couple years is it weird um playing your idol idols on TV or the better of the two operational units I mean it's I it doesn't matter how many times that I say that I was Army Special Operations I still get Instagram messages asking me how Buzz was and how to prepare for Buds and I'm like dude like how many times can I say this like I was not a seal I play one on TV I actually a funny story um I have played a seal four times really four times oh [ __ ] yep I played a seal oh well obviously on the show um in Suicide Squad I was a seal in uh a movie I did called um uh free uh Rayshawn I was a former seal and then I was I should not missing one um and then something else I did I was a seal again or a former ceiling here that's why I had to think about what it was now yeah I mean I guess in all seriousness is there any uh any weirdness or any things that you screw up or or kind of step on your own deck as far as uh you know playing a seal on TV when you were you know at such a specialized unit but just in a different way well you know whenever we you know advising it whenever and it's happened whenever you know every once in a while we'll do an episode that'll involve you know water boats Beach submarine and you know the last man I'm like I have no idea how do you lock out of a sub yeah I don't know you know they're like how do you stand on a rib I don't know and so I'll defer to you know one of the yeah you know because we have seals that were stuck or we have seals that are you know some of the doubles or you know we have quite a few seals that work on the show so I'm just like hey man I have some if it comes to how do we get onto the beach no clue ask one of the one of the seal guys so um yeah any any time we do stuff like that it kind of it's funny yeah have you uh caught a lot of [ __ ] from uh your comrades for playing a seal on TV um and not that they've vocalized it's all behind your back no I mean you know it's one of those things where um you know for me all the inner whether it's you know big army you know rivalry between big army and Marine Corps or you know seals Rangers all those unit rivalries to me at least um okay they happen while you're in but at least for me once you get out yeah dude like we're all the same and have way more in common you know being out than we have uh differences so for me you know playing uh playing a seal or portraying a seal I I don't really see it as I just see it as portraying the community yeah in general um because and no different you know you go uh to any NATO soft unit even different countries as you know it's a lot of same guys different countries you know so um I I just see it all kind of as the same I'm going to take a quick break I do want to let you guys know um the way that you can support the show is to support our sponsors I know some people don't like to hear ads but that's how I do what I do for a living so any support you can show for our gracious sponsors is much appreciated and again it does uh does support the show so thank you what are the two key components for canine success that's effective training and proper nutrition fueled by team dog brings those two components to your family and best friend the perfect nutritional balance that results in a higher mental acuity energy overall vitality and even an improved appearance every product you will find in my company's store was born from the battlefield and not from the boardroom letting my life's work help you become your dog's hero I mean to me I would almost take it as step further and say that even on active duty like not in peace time because we haven't been in peacetime in a couple of decades now but like back home training Etc there's more of a rivalry but when you're overseas it's like you know you guys are blood brothers and yeah you know fighting together and whatever but very true because I mean I was in were you in before 9 11 yeah yeah I mean I remember you know the years before 9 11 like the Rivalry especially between us and like force Recon guys was fierce yeah yeah and you know green berries Rangers what have you um but you know 911 kicks off and it's just just different you know um well and the other thing too that at least I noticed is you know the kind of the 90s like people that got out before 9 11 still hold on to those rivalries and and to me those rivalries went away not just because of combat but really the combat put those units working together yeah which hadn't happened it's easy to think someone's different when you never see them never work with them they're just a you know a group of people you hear about but as soon as you work with those people you go oh man they're just like us you know and um I think or I don't think 911 you know working with other units I mean I worked with you know you know conventional Marines you know everyone at one point or another so um to include you know international units as well so um and you really learn a lot about them and uh um in in your perspective opens up of again it's just generally everyone in soft pretty much the same type of person we just chose different you know people ask me why I didn't become a seal it's a very easy answer I can't swim at all I don't float oh no [ __ ] at all at all like I will well when I say at all you know because people are like oh everyone floats and I'm like okay I've seen it you know there's people that [ __ ] don't dude thank you thank you God I just I had this conversation the other day and I was trying to explain and and they're like no everyone floats I'm like we'll do we'll go to a pool right now and I won't go to the bottom of the ocean yeah but I cannot float and keep my head above water yeah which is kind of important you know so I was like um yeah there was there was never uh uh never a Navy career in my future but I grew up you know for me I watched Rambo yeah and I wanted to be a Green Beret yeah that was it for me it makes sense um in terms of uh one thing I like to ask all guests um what is your your daily morning routine say the first three hours of the day on on a normal day if one exists oh um like from the time you get up to you know eating drinking work out what you do Etc yeah I mean uh when I'm filming I mean it's wake up at you know usually five and just head to head into to wherever we're filming um if it's not that you know I'm I'm generally getting up and uh um I mean I kind of got off my routine actually um there's a routine that I want to get back to quite frankly which is um and I'll mention it here and I'm gonna forget the acronym or I'm going to remember the acronym but I'm going to forget what it stands for but there's this book called uh Sabers and uh so I went to Warrior's Heart [Music] oh God when was it year I don't know a year and a half year you're in four months ago um and uh my therapist there um you know recommended this book to me called Savers and it's awesome I mean it's it's great and again you know look it up or maybe we can put the thing but it's like you know each letter stand it's like reading you know spirit it's got these you know things that you do every morning um and it really it really did set up my day in a in a just a great headspace and a great framework yeah um and uh I want to get back to that and and to do that I need to uh I just need to carve out a window of time before I'm committed to doing something you know and um so that's something I'm definitely going forward going to get back to because it was a great routine oh well how long were you at that program 42 days 42 days yeah and was that during the transition out no no that was like um so uh you know as I was mentioning to you before we started recording you know I uh season five season four no sorry season four you know man I just I burnt myself out on that on that show and uh um I was just you know producing I was directing I was acting you know I was I mean it was just you know 16 hours every day and and no rest during that time and I just worked too hard and burned myself out and um and then I got into uh two years ago December 2nd to 2020 uh during uh That season I got uh I got hit by a car on on my motorcycle and um it just uh you know it it I was messed up pretty good and I was on camera you know on the show and it was one of those things where I just I wasn't really replaceable at that time um and so I I really just you know I was on a bunch of pain meds to I mean I was in quite a bit of pain but I think I missed four days of work after getting hit by a car and so I just went in there and and I just finished the season but I I burned myself out doing it and um at the end I was just a wreck and so I went to Warrior's Heart yeah what uh what was that what happened with the accident what happened I just the guy you know literally I was riding my motorcycle and a guy makes a U-turn right in front of me oh wow like across from the far right lane he makes a U-turn you know across two lanes of uh of you know you know what I'm saying you turn across two lanes never looked left so you T-boned them or or no uh basically I kept going left trying I got into the center turn lane I got all the way to the double yellow and he just kept coming never looked my way and and then I couldn't go any further because it was oncoming traffic and basically we we hit at the corner wow and I actually I got lucky uh or not lucky but I I knew that you know at the last second you know I'm gonna get hit there's no question and I was worried about my right leg getting hit by the car which as you know on a bike is a big concern uh so I I just jumped off the pegs yeah um almost cleared it but um but yeah then just you know flew probably I don't know 50 yards I mean and uh landed on my my head my shoulder so and you were on uh BMW Scrambler yeah yeah and um what year did you have on uh so I had a helmet obviously and and this story couldn't be more it happens every time I was literally going to the ATM yeah it was probably a mile from uh because I left the gym to go to the ATM my jacket with all the pads yeah I was going in a mile and it was it was summer it was hot um or no actually it was December but it was well it's La so it wasn't I didn't need my jacket and I just didn't feel like putting it on so I left everything there and of course that's when it happens always is you know I know it I mean every time I I ride a sport bike I have every [ __ ] thing on even if it's dude that that time I didn't wear my that's probably one of two times in years that I didn't wear it and it's just like yeah you know that being said I I probably it was a hard enough impact where I don't think it probably would have made a huge because I didn't really skid yeah um I just landed I separated my shoulder and and um and you know my head actually I never go cheap on a helmet I was I was lucky that I had a a really good quality helmet but um but anyways yeah that just man I just uh after that I was just basically taking meds to get through work and um it just it it all come Came Crashing Down and um I ended up going to to Warriors heart yeah uh you know the acting career dovetailing on to a pretty significant uh high-level military career is is an interesting path and one that seems pretty unique I don't know of anybody else that served at the capacity that you did that's in a prominent career acting wise that way uh you know maybe an extra in [ __ ] Transformers or whatever but but to have like a legit role and be a guy you know in a show like that is pretty neat um do you find that um like from a advisory standpoint um is there like a a give and take where it's like dude this is [ __ ] this would never happen this way it has to be changed and they're like yep tough [ __ ] this is how we're doing it like is there struggles that way oh yeah I mean it's a constant compromise constant um you know the the thing the the thing that I learned very early on is that you know you have to understand the it's not enough to understand the the military and you know you can know what's correct you can know tactics you can know gear you can know everything but if you don't understand fundamentally the way production Works um it's you're not going to be able to um you're not going to be able to really effect change and what I mean by that is I'll never I'll never say no I can make if it has to happen in story do you want to go camping what's that you said you'd never say no oh yeah no let's do it um but no it's all I'll never say no to you know something needs to happen like there's a story that they you know that they write I can figure out how to make it make sense I got you um I'll give you an example and someone said you know someone said I had another veteran say you know well no not everything you can make happen and I'm like no I can I can reverse engineer anything um because I understand story and if you go backwards you can make it make sense and they're like well something that would never happen a veteran burning a flag and I was like I can make a veteran burn a flag and they're like [ __ ] batch would never burn flag okay listen listen to this and I'm making this up obviously but here's a good example of of how you Converse reverse engineer a story to make sense or to get a desired end state I'm like you know uh pretend there's this guy that gets this flag you know given to him by a kid from his dad then he joins the military and he deploys and he carries that flag with them everywhere that flags with them on every deployment you know and then he gets out and then he starts having problems and you know next thing you know he's homeless and you know goes on for years and it just keeps getting worse and worse and you know he's under a bridge and you know he's on substances and all this different thing and where he's at is freezing and one day he has nothing he's literally freezing to death and he starts a fire and he doesn't have anything to burn and he pulls out the flag and he starts crying because he has to burn it to stay warm to stay alive yeah there you go you know what I mean like there you can make anything happen um and so it's one of those things where you just have to understand how to maneuver um the story and and and basically anytime we have something that maybe doesn't make sense then we just I just figure out how to reverse engineer it to make sense yeah you know and that's that's really a critical key in advising is is just understanding that you have to insert authenticity within the structure of a dramatic one-hour TV show yeah because they're not going to they're not going to cater to what you want you have to cater to what they want yeah is it weird at all uh playing a role that you did in real life and now doing it fake maybe fake whatever you want to call it about yeah I don't no it's it's the best way I could say it is it's less weird than you'd think and I it just it never it's so artificial it never feels even closer yeah and it never does but there there I mean there are some times where it's odd you know like like you know coming in on a Helo and jumping off and running to Target but you got a camera following you I mean it's just a it's a strange experience I I don't really know how to how to describe it but um I'll say this about it it's it's quite frankly pretty therapeutic yeah you know because you know you talked about you know as a kid playing Guns you know I was a kid playing Guns and then and then we played guns for real and now I'm back playing Guns you know so it's in that way it's it's fun to to to you know in a way it's it's therapeutic to to just have some kind of semblance of of that um life even though it's completely artificial does the level of camaraderie uh mimic the artificialness uh on the show is for like you know the band of brothers that exists in in real world is significant uh is it not really that way with with a group or are you guys pretty tight no we're pretty I mean it's you know I would say I would say how do you get you know how do you get that camaraderie in in um you know in the military well you know it's arguably through shared misery over time you know production's hard you know it's long hours it's you know wearing a kid all day and you're out in the you know Boonies it's you know it's it's there's no life risk obviously but um but the conditions for at least that show you know if we filmed a on a studio you know a 30 minute comedy it'd be very different but filming action filming action you know it it has to be it uh the the environment has to be tough for it to look tough so um yeah everyone's you know pretty tight especially after you know six seasons now yeah um you know we've been together for a hundred and I think 104 episodes you guys prank the [ __ ] out of each other the way uh um not as much as you'd think um Max who is the the big prankster um he he was he was the prank Master but um I you know I was always too busy to to come up with pranks um and and but Max came up with some good ones but yeah you'd think there would be more but it's just um generally the the filming is so busy there's generally not a lot of time to to do anything but I imagine with time being money to to such a degree there if you're [ __ ] around you're gonna piss people off like yeah yeah sign your check and whatever yeah exactly I like your OIC it's like what are you gonna do fire me like not for that yeah Productions you know uh shockingly expensive yeah um is there anything that's gone horribly wrong um during any of the filming where like it just couldn't have gone worse like where there was a big accident or you know anything that's uh no I mean we've um no we've we've been pretty lucky as far as um you know safety and everything and and I mean considering considering what we've done on the show I mean we've definitely done things we did you know live spies extraction you know um are you guys all doing your own [ __ ] um so you're about to call some people out here no no um so for the first uh I did all my stunts and Justin did all of his I think for the first um the first time I was doubled was like season three that they were doing some I mean I can ride a horse but they were like riding a horse on a ridge like super fast and I was like I actually it wasn't my choice they're like no you can't do that um and then there was another time where um the uh the stunt coordinators like hey can you uh can you get a car sideways and I'm like oh yeah of course yeah absolutely he's like okay cool and then we get to Serbia and uh he's like all right so you're gonna go and you're gonna get it sideways and then the camera is going to be right here and and you're gonna stop right here and I went uh wait what he's like yeah yeah you just get it sideways and then you know you you stop like you know five feet within camera and I'm like you said get it sideways you didn't say that yeah specific yeah I'm like no you're gonna have to double me for that but um and you know the last season though um you know we've had doubles I'll say this the first three-ish Seasons um I mean there was the actors did a lot more than in my opinion probably they should have because things could have probably been done faster um but uh yeah the actors at this point or not even this point season three like as far as CQB like just clearing like they they know how to do it you know because I didn't teach him I didn't teach them every scene do this this and this I just taught them the overall Concepts yeah and then that way they don't you know because the cameras will move around them yeah so they just the way we film it they just do the movement and the camera will figure out where to go yeah um and and so yeah they they've done a lot of their own stunts the big stuff's generally been doubled yeah um but I suppose tactics wise if it's too choreographed it'll look too choreographed too right absolutely yeah and that's why it's just easier to to to give them the the other thing too is you know you we want it to look right but we don't want to give away any actual you know uh playbooks yeah Playbook tactics so everything we do is is you know authentic but not necessarily how you'd really do it right because we don't want to do it exactly how we would do it now because we don't want to give that away but it has to look right but it's not exactly right yeah uh how did you get involved in it how did that take place um well so I started working you know when I got out um the two things I want to do as a kid was be in like I said Rambo I wanted to be a Green Beret which I never was but um but uh you know wanted to be Army soft I guess and then I wanted to work in the entertainment industry yeah so when I'm medically retired that was what you know I moved out west and that was kind of the what I started doing I mean it took me a long time to get even my first job um but you know I started working on movies well actually I started working on like you know like National Geographic specials you know and Charmin commercials yeah exactly and I just kept building you know my resume and and or maybe not my resume but my credits and then you know I worked on a video game and then I worked on uh again more movies and then um my my like what I like to call my my waiter job you know while you're trying to make it in Hollywood you know people are waiters and bartenders but mine was you know I was uh doing EP it was a bodyguard for pretty much almost a decade um until the show because I would do movies but you know you do a movie three four hell six months and then you don't do another one for three four yeah six months so you needed some consistency yeah and if you're not getting 10 million for that movie yeah yeah yeah I know and so I um it wasn't until the show came up that I I actually they called me up and the executive producer of well one of because there's several but um you know he was a former member of the unit that we portray and uh he couldn't advise because he was doing something else and he knew me and so they called me and they said hey can you go uh leave in like two days to go work on this pilot and so I I quit my uh I quit my bodyguarding I had a corporate EP job at that time and uh I quit it to go work on the pilot which would which was a pretty big risk because most Pilots don't get picked up yeah especially a military one at the time and uh I was just kind of like this is what I want to do and you gotta you got to take a risk to get a reward yeah and so um I went out there for six weeks and uh did the pilot and next thing I know it uh and also when I did the pilot you know I was the advisor I wasn't supposed to be on camera how I got on camera was I was like I told him I'm like you guys don't have enough people to do this like what do you mean I'm like well you got four actors Mike as soon as we start getting into CQB I'm like you don't understand like people going you know I was trying to explain to them they're gonna break off and you just don't have enough people and then I was like again they really couldn't conceptualize that because we hadn't shot it yet I'm like all right well let me say this let's say you go into a room and there's women and kids I'm like and you want the four actors to talk about it it's like oh my God these women and kids are all wounded who's going and taking care of though like somebody needs to go to them and take care of them but you need the actors to talk and they're like oh [ __ ] you know it kind of they were like oh that that makes sense so they're like well you know what do you suggest and I'm like well I'll do it and um because also there we had like a shotgun breach and then the pilot and some technical things some an actual demo breach and so I'm like I'll just do all that technical stuff that way I don't have to train an actor for it and we'll do it faster and um that's you know how I got on camera and then six seasons later I I you know or actually you know within however many episodes they started giving me dialogue and I had to figure out what the hell I was doing um speaking of that like from a traditional or formal training from an actor's standpoint have you gone through [ __ ] like that or is it so it's that that's a a good question so season season one and season two I did and um I had no I'd never you know no actor training of any kind then I was starting to get like season two I was starting to get dialogue where it wasn't just like action like you know you know you know clear the room you know whatever the hell it is it was like either something funny or something dramatic and so at that time I was like I probably should like figure out what I'm doing so I signed up after season two I signed up for this acting class and I go to it and I think I went three times something like that and then I was like this is not this is not how this works like like I you can't all the stuff that they were teaching I was just like I don't have I can't spend 10 minutes to get into character for like when they say rolling you deliver you know and it just the the classes at least the one that I went to um it it was more about like it was an acting class but acting on TV was was very different the application was very different so I stopped going and then I just started really um asking the actors for advice and really watching them and studying them even within a scene and seeing how they did it and I just eventually you know picked up uh you know my acting class was watching these professionals yeah over you know now six seasons all right guys the economy sucks right uh it's up and down um anybody who's looking to invest is a little leery of investing in the stock market myself included I started working with Masterworks here recently they specialize in Blue Chip art which is very unaffected by the uh volatility of the stock market and so the way that it works is you basically invest with other people into paintings that are very safe and secure and reliable in terms of sales they've got a great track work record um of being able to sell these uh incredibly expensive paintings um and other artworks for um for profit and it gives you an ability to leave the volatility to the stock market and kind of hedge against that so it's a good way to I hate to use the Corning cliche diversify your portfolio but that's exactly what it does in a very safe and predictable manner if you go to masterworks.art mic drop you can skip the wait list again that's masterworks.art mic drop and you can get involved with again diversifying whatever you're looking to to put money into to to keep it in a more safe platform other than cryptocurrency or the stock market or anything else that tends to bounce around like a roller coaster in these volatile times so um in terms of SEC filings you can still register everything above board the way that you need to investment wise there's over 650 million dollars invested in in Blue Chip through these guys and over 590 000 users so this isn't some pop-up you know Fly by Night joint that has 10 10 members it's a totally legit and above board and and I've been working with them for a little while now and it's great so again that's masterworks.art mic drop and you can get all the details at that website the amount that you've done to this point do you feel like you could go be Michael Scott on the office or like like do you feel like you're you're not Typecast into doing the the role that you are like oh I mean I I definitely know I can go do something else um uh could I do the you know that Hive level you know the the the the the building process is like I know I could go do a comedy or because I want to make everything funnier when I'm yeah whether I'm directing whether I'm acting I always want to make it funnier so I'd love to do a comedy but um the thing that you realize you know when it comes to like um the you know like uh David boreanis or obviously Steve Carell on the office I mean their level of the level of pressure on someone that's leading a show or leading a movie is is it's unbelievable because they have to deliver perfectly there's no second chances for them and like the amount of dialogue that they have to just memorize on the spot it's it's pretty amazing to see um and that takes a while to get to and that's why almost everyone has like uh you know you look at like a Chris Pratt who you know but look where he started yeah you know I mean he Parks and Rec Parks and Rec exactly and and you know exactly and I mean he crushed everything he did on that but it was a building block before he was you know the lead of a of of um you know Guardians of the game exactly I mean he was in um what's it called uh Zero Dark Thirty and you know so there's a building process so um I would love to do something outside of the military space um and I'd like and you know I feel like I'm working towards that yeah um do you guys use plastic kit nope you just use the real [ __ ] all the kits real all the guns are real yep oh [ __ ] yeah so what with the guns being real is it like modified bfas with blanks or how do you so the way they do it um so we we're lucky we have I mean look the show the show is what it is because we have just a well for many reasons but from from from the beginning you know when I was on the pilot um it was hey like we want to get this right and that came from Chris chulak from the very beginning like you know he directed the pilot and like he Shepherd the show from the very beginning concept but it was we want this to be as authentic as possible and so that has carried you know six seasons and um when it came to the Gear you know like the prop Master we have you know usually a ProMaster comes in and says no we're going to do it this way because it's easier we were lucky on who was you know the team that was assembled to where the prop Master we got it's like all right let's talk about how to get this right guns we have one of the best armors in the business hey we want to get this right and that's why the show is what it is is because everyone on board is trying to get it right or I should say as right as it can be within the confines of a you know a TV uh a TV drama but yeah so the way our guns work is um like they're 416. well now actually we have the noveskis but um whether they're in the noveskis or the 416s in the barrel they have a um a screw essentially it's a Allen screw that goes in the barrel and there's a whole science obviously to where it needs to be and how tight and size blah blah but there's just that screw is the blank adapter and it's within the barrel what uh are you using the same blanks or similar blanks to what we used in the military so they're they're [Music] different so they're custom made by um I mean the armorer has forgotten more about blank rounds than you know probably the military will ever know so they know exactly like our guns work yeah it's very rare that we have a gun not work firing blanks which as you know in the military is exact opposite you know and it's just because again like we're saying you know they time is money and those guns they'd better work you know when when when when when you start firing or or that ruins a whole scene or whole take I should say sure um but yeah our armor um but yeah and the gear you know I mean the only thing we don't do obviously is we don't wear real plates because that would be stupid that being said I did wear real plates and a full weight helmet for the whole first season which is one of the Dumber things I've ever done like in my head I was like ah yeah I'm gonna be hard you know and now I'm looking at it I was stupid but um yeah season two I was like I don't need to wear real plates that's just dumb um it's also you know when you when you have to also act and do other things like the less weight the more you're able to concentrate on on what you're actually doing um and uh that being said I still hate wearing a backpack with you know I want a little weight in it to where it doesn't look like it's you know I hate when I'm watching movies and it's flopping around you're like there's nothing in there yeah um as far as the gear goes you said uh you know you're rocking 416s and then noveski's how competitive is it uh I can only imagine that every [ __ ] Gear Company gun manufacturer in the world is trying to get their [ __ ] on your guys's show um ironically it's the opposite really yeah because you know for them it doesn't or at least there's no way that they could know that it directly translates to sales so I guess just looking at the the John Wick Terran tactical model of like that being taken advantage of a lot um yeah um I but that was a that was an outlier you know um that was an outlier usually it's um the shows don't want something heavily branded yeah because they're in the business of selling advertising so you know they they don't want to push a brand they're not getting paid for um and on that note too you know CBS Paramount plus is not in the business of of I mean you could imagine they don't want exactly a gun friendly Corporation you know they don't want to push you know gun Brands and all that stuff so we the stuff that we put in there um we're doing it just to it's a it's a hybrid between about half of it is what people are really using or at least what the units are really using and then sometimes we're like all right they're not using this but this is really cool yeah and you know so we the the gear gun porn sure we'll throw stuff in just because it's cool it's not being used but it's cool like we we took a we were in a we were using um uh indige weapons and because Sunny has a saw you know Mike the armorer and I were talking about it were like you know it'd be cool is let's take an RPD and chop it at the gas block and then suppress it yeah and and so he did it and I mean it's you know like I I don't think there's ever been one on a movie or show ever you know and it was just so we'll do stuff like that where we'll just kind of um we know that people are watching the show just like myself that would watch you know when I was a kid and I'd see gear or guns and be like oh that's cool we know those people are out there and so we put little stuff in there specifically for that that makes sense uh pyrotechnic wise is there a hybridization of breaching charges uh you know things that you or the team would would use and the pyrotechnics experts like how does that kind of go together yes that's that's been another great relationship Chris uh who uh Chris Nelson who does our our special effects um you know we there's just a lot of you know you look in the script of what something is you know breaching a door or whatever and then you know we we talk on you know okay this is how you'd actually do it and then he figures out the the special effects way to do it and we've we've actually done stuff in the show that's pretty um you know pretty unique like we did a double breach which is um uh so the way so I can't initiate anything as as the actor or even as a stunt man it has to come from the special effects person so I've got my initiation system but I'm wired to a receiver that he is actually controlling with the remote so basically we did in an episode where I had two different rigs on and I basically went in so I'm I'm wired to the charge but it's not actually initiating it the the thing is so anyways we did this double breach which without cutting so I I basically put on a charge blew the door and then I think I had scissors and I cut it off and then I went to the next door and then did it again which you know again it people don't know that that's that was very hard to do but so we'll do stuff like that that you won't generally see because you know you can't uh um we had to come up with a an in an Innovative way to uh to cheat it yeah so uh acting on a show for six seasons now that uses guns pretty much in the whole thing and and you know that's kind of the the main gig um I'm curious to get your take on the Alec Baldwin thing like how could something like that have happened uh you know I'll tell you when I first heard of it and even now I knowing set protocol I I I just I don't understand how it's possible that being said I know the details of the the thing that happened with Brandon Lee yeah and if you know the details of how that happened I mean it's what did happen I'll give you the very short version but the very short version is um so there was a scene in which well so first of all it was a low budget Crow was a low budget movie under extreme pressure of time and you know again they they cut Corners rust was from what I've heard uh no no different and that that's the that's the um that's the core fundamental issue right there but so what happens is is the uh armor or I think it was a property I can't remember there's a scene where they're pointing the revolver at the camera well you're pointing a revolver at the camera so you need to see the bullets in the chamber well he didn't have dummy rounds so what he did was he went and bought real 44 Magnum rounds and pulled the uh you know probably used freaking pliers pulled the bullet off dumped the powder out and made and then put the bullet back and made dummy rounds well there's only one problem with that primer still a primer so then the actor you know gets the gun points it to the camera and at some point he pulls the trigger and primer goes off now I'm sure no one heard it because the guy was you know there's sound you know he's saying dialogue I'm sure no one even noticed but that primer goes off and it was enough to push that 44 magnum slug into the barrel so then the scene's done they hand off the gun the armor whatever empties it out now one of the bullets doesn't have uh or one of the rounds doesn't have a bullet but again you know it could have fallen on the ground you know it was just like oh [ __ ] I don't know he never checked the barrel I don't know where it went whatever so then that gun sits in a bag for like I don't know a month or 45 days is a long time and then it gets pulled out again again Barrel does not get checked gets loaded with full um full blank 44 magnum loads and then it's the scene where the actor shoots Brandon Lee well now you've got a slug in the barrel and you got a full power blank you basically have a full power 44 magnum and it hit Brandon Lee in the stomach and and they didn't know he was I mean uh how would why would they expect they thought he was acting yeah why wouldn't they and um and that's how randomly died yeah but the fundamental problem which the the sad part is this whole thing has a very simple solution it's a very simple solution and that is um the all three people that have been killed with with um with guns on set in the last you know I don't know how many years um were revolvers the one before Brandon Lee was an actor if you get his name but he put a I mean it was a blank but it was he put it to his head you know um revolvers are not plugged remember I was saying the screw in the barrel revolver's the only guns that aren't plugged because they work they don't need the gas to cycle the action the trigger does it so they've just never had plugs so all you have to do is plug revolvers yeah that's it and then it will it could never happen again because nothing could ever go through the barrel um but how that happened on set how because it was apparently an actual live round I mean the the series of of small or you know the I shouldn't say small but just the amount of things that had to have been messed up and gone wrong are just crazy to me I mean to me the the amount of negligence taking place there is a catastrophic absolutely I mean I I again having worked on you know oh you know a couple dozen sets I don't understand how that was possible yeah knowing the checks and balances yeah we'll get back into some of the Seal team CBS stuff but I want to talk about uh your military career as well because it's pretty significant uh and you've got a lot of experience that that I know people are going to want to hear about where are you originally from uh Bakersfield California that's a nice area do you ever did you ever great valley fever growing up beautiful uh no but it was always a uh that's funny you say that it was always a race I got it oh really really yeah I got it out at uh about an island uh out in the desert Eastern California and uh yeah I mean it almost they tried to medically retire me for it oh it's yeah I mean it's a bad yeah it's like I mean it's bad yeah um all right so you grew up in Bakersfield did you uh in terms of encapsulizing your uh your childhood did you have siblings did you play sports what was growing up there like um you know for me it was uh you know I mean I I played sports but you know I was uh kind of a lonely nerdy geeky kid Star Wars fanatic um my favorite thing to do is play guns you know I would just that's if I could do that every day all day that's what I would do and um and you know Bakersfield then was a very strange place you know it was like part farmland and then part you know it was kind of dangerous in one of the ways I mean there's some really bad areas um but yeah growing up there I mean I just uh idolized from as early as I can remember you know anything military I'd go to the air I hell I'd I'd wear camo every day to school I mean that's that's the kid I was yeah um did your dad or or parents or any relatives serve um no just you know grandfather World War II you know which is common obviously but yeah no my dad didn't go to Vietnam he had I think a hernia and some you know whatever he got he got drafted but then uh they denied him um but yeah no no immediate relatives in the military it was just you know people have asked you know uh why did you choose to join and I always say I I don't feel like I chose it you know I feel like it I had to do it it just it was never a choice for me really uh did you have siblings yep yeah a younger brother brother um what sports did you play um football soccer where my I mean I played some baseball but um football and soccer I mean soccer was my main one I played soccer for like you know most of my life yeah uh not not something that you wanted to pursue obviously into college whatever wasn't that big of a deal I never wanted to go to college you know I stopped playing sports in in high school like my sophomore year and I was just I I at that I mean my freshman and sophomore year uh to be honest I I mean I had to go to I had to go to adult I pretty much ditched almost my entire Junior and Senior year like I'm not I'm not exaggerating um for what works yeah I had a job at um I had a job at the gym oh really yeah I was selling memberships at the gym I was like [ __ ] school um great but yeah I actually had to go to hood told school to to make up the credits to graduate yeah yeah did you join right after high school no I I first um you know going back to entertainment and and uh and uh entertainment in the military and being in Bakersfield you know it was an hour and a half from La so I went down to LA and tried to be and again I didn't try and be an actor or or I didn't know what I wanted to do in Hollywood I just went down and tried to find work in the industry and obviously as an 18 year old [ __ ] that didn't go well and then I realized uh correctly that you know this is going to take some time to figure out uh and I just kind of knew the military it had an expiration date and so I I somehow at that age knew hey I I should do that now and then so I joined actually I joined literally out of the Hollywood Maps so when I was in MEPS everything said Hollywood and you want to talk about [ __ ] getting [ __ ] for that man oh in hindsight I definitely would have joined from a different office did you get any any work in Hollywood uh doing anything before then no no no no no I I think I went I actually went to like a couple auditions um to be like an ex that was weird it was weird stuff what year was this I was like 97 yeah yeah it was it was wind up on the cast or no no no this is 90 sorry it was 96 95 96 yeah that was a joking but uh yeah you wind up on the casting couch with uh [ __ ] like that no dude it was there was one particular I'll never forget it there was one particular casting I went to that they didn't want to let me in it was at a bar that's good and it was at night and they didn't want to let me in because I was 18 and you know it was a bar it was 21. I'm like dude I have you know I mean I I'm supposed to be here and I there wasn't even email then but I forget what I had you know I was on a list or whatever and so they finally let me in I dude I don't even remember I just remember there was all these girls all these pretty girls and I remember talking to a girl and she was like 25 and I was like 18. and it was just a world that I couldn't I just couldn't fathom it you know it was just it was very strange and even in hindsight knowing what I know now I still look back to that and I'm like what was that yeah you know what I mean because it had to be like a porn audition or something because it was just it wasn't normal I didn't have a mailing address of Chatsworth California I mean who has a casting in a bar it was just it was weird yeah yeah that's [ __ ] wild all right so you joined uh join the Army I'm assuming you went to Fort Benning uh yeah yeah yeah did you sign up for the ranger program yeah so I went in um and as I said again referencing you know first Blood I I went in and I was like I want to be a Green Beret they're like okay awesome no I was like wait what yeah what and uh so there was no 18 x-ray program so I went in you know I just was like all right you know and then I knew what Rangers were I had actually had a ranger um poster I had a Green Bay I had a bunch of them and um so I'm like all right well you know what what can you guarantee me a chance you know and they're like well you know we have a ranger contract and I'm like done sign me up and uh I mean hell you know Hollywood MEPS they they were just they were happy that I passed the ASVAB you know they were like oh my God you passed the ASVAB you qualify yeah and like I had a GT score of uh uh 122. so which they were pissed because my GT score which again I I don't remember even taking the test but it qualified me for every job yeah so they were like no no no no no do not join infantry like you don't understand you can do this and I was like yeah but I don't want to do that you know but for them to have somebody in that maps that qualified for everything they were not happy that I was taking a ranger contract for infantry yeah in the Navy they would uh they would snag you for the nuke program yeah that's yeah exactly yeah the submarines but um so you go through was it relatively smooth sailing or what was the pathway you know I I mean I had fun in in I I wanted to do it so bad you know it's like as you know it's all it's all proportionate to motivation you know um I you know basic training Airborne rip all that stuff I mean I had fun I thought it was I mean you know obviously it sucks at times but overall it's exactly what I wanted to do yeah and uh then when you know done with uh that process was like six or seven months I forget exactly and then I got assigned a second range of Battalion Fort Lewis yeah Fort Lewis which Fort Lewis is awesome it's a great great base um you know it's uh especially then yeah you know Seattle was very different than obviously and um so you know I get the second range of Battalion and I'm like all right dude I'm gonna [ __ ] CQB I'm gonna do all the cool [ __ ] you know I was all excited to to be on the line you know yeah and I get there and they're like all right you're an assistant Gunner you're like well what the [ __ ] is like yeah what does that mean you know they're like all right so at that time you're in ammo and barrels that's it yeah I didn't even have a rifle yeah I had an M9 and a bag with a freaking tripod teeny two spare barrels and you know I think at that time you know about 700 rounds of 762 which is 7.7 pounds per 100 rounds each Barrel was 7.7 pounds which is ironic same as 100 rounds and then she don't even remember how much the tripod and teeny weighed but and I slept that thing around for freaking you know a year I think about a year I can't remember exactly but now that's what I did until I went into Ranger school was just and you know an AG which sucked but but it actually it it it it it really set me up for Success later because I was used to carrying you know 100 pound Ruck yeah you know no problem yeah I mean it it sucks but you know you you just get used to it yeah was Ranger School uh any different than you thought it would be was it as big of a kick in the nuts as you thought or about I was about the same I mean you know the thing I learned in Ranger school is just you know you take away sleep it sucks if you take away food it sucks but when you take away food and sleep it really sucks it it that is a unique combo that will just Crush you and um and so that was definitely uh I mean you you definitely learned a lot from it um and again though yeah it I mean I had fun yeah you know how much weight did you lose I think 45 pounds yeah yeah about 45 pounds I mean I have picture I look like you know broke out yeah yeah I yeah people don't even I show them picture after range of school and then that's you and I'm like man that's me yeah but um uh yeah it was I mean you know it I mean that part sucked but I learned a lot and I it just again it was all ultimately it was just it was fun you know and and I got back from that well and this is kind of a funny story I got back from that I'm like all right now I've got my tab now I'm somebody and so I go back to my gun squad and everyone else had their tab so I was in ag still and I was like are you [ __ ] me you know like seriously we had an all tabbed weapon Squad which uh anyone listening to this from Ranger retire that was that was rare yeah very rare in fact I don't I've never heard of it happening before since but um so I had I had enough of being on a weapon Squad and um then they had the sniper section was uh having you know like their little selection tryouts and um I went to that and made it then I went and became a sniper what uh what was the path like once you did that did that change a lot as far as where you're at and what you did I'm assuming oh yeah I mean being I I I loved being a sniper I mean it was and the reason is is because it was especially then because back then back then we were doing everything meaning we were doing the shooting and the recce all of it now it's split into like snipers and I think there's a recce platoon now but back then you know you had to do it all and it was so much from just the field craft reconnaissance part to learning cameras to the radios to call for fire to you know and then learning the sniper shooting part on top of that I mean it was an unmasterable job and I loved how no matter what you did you'd never be a master of every aspect of that yeah what uh what was your first deployment um at second Ranger bet um overseas was Afghanistan in O2 what uh where were you at when 9 11 happened at at the Battalion no I was actually in pldc um so I was I was at Fort Lewis at pldc which is uh primary leadership development course so basically the course you go to to be a sergeant and uh I was there and actually I was um you know we were up early uh running uh doing PT and I came back and I was changing and they allowed us to have the radio on so I had the radio on and I heard about it on the radio um and then weirdly unfortunately quite frankly in that school um because we're students that kept us from the TV so I didn't see a lot of it initially so it was like you'd be in the chow hall and like you'd walk by and you'd see a tower fall but they wouldn't tell us anything it was it was very strange it's like uh listening to uh War of the Worlds Orson Wells on the radio that's really how it felt you know and and they just and I get it where we were students and they kind of insulated us from it but it was it was very strange and then they all brought us together like I think the end of that day and yeah and then the whole rest you know like starting on September 12th I'm just like all right dude where are we going yeah pull me from this course give me the [ __ ] out of here you know this is not important and uh you know the way it worked was uh for Rangers at least you know third bat jumped into Kandahar October 19th that was defer the start of the Afghanistan and then uh after that first Battalion rotated and they did basically uh qrf out of Kandahar and that's when Robert's Ridge happened well towards the end of their deployment Robert's Ridge happened and then we subbed out with them so we came right after Anaconda after Robert's Ridge and then what obviously Anaconda pushed um you know all the bad guys into packet on the border so when we got there basically we were building all the out stations so all the first bases on the uh on you know or along the pack border saw the badge jalala bad you know skin all those is is what we basically built oh uh gentlemen and ladies are you tired of having uh buckwheat in a leg lock as far as your downstairs is concerned I know I was and so I turned to manscaped and this one which reeks of Excellence is the actual one that I 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manscapes.com the code is mic drop all one word capital letters and that's for 20 off all of the ball manscaping products that you could possibly want and again ladies you can use these too because uh God knows we all need a little bit of help down there was there uh in terms of interaction slash engagement with Taliban Al-Qaeda Fighters was what was that like at that time at that time it was it was relatively light um because it was right after they got pushed out so um you know we were we were building all the bases um and and there wasn't I mean there was missions and there was stuff but it wasn't any legit [ __ ] ticks no not really like not not that deployment it well not for me there were um there were a couple well there was nothing super heavy um I'm trying to think I think one element did a supporting for um for my other old unit and they had a big engagement but it was just it nothing nothing major yeah um mostly what we did was uh or what my team did really was uh you know we'd go out for we'd do four day you know just my team and another team offset we'd go out outside the fob and and do recce for for four days which you know in hindsight shoot sending four Dudes out for four days [ __ ] no way they would do that later in the war you know and we'd be out just kind of hanging it out there and and we actually got compromised one time straight out of straight out of Lone Survivor straight out of Lone Survivor and um um and you know we didn't you know we didn't kill the guy um it was a goat herder literally and uh we just picked up and [ __ ] moved like four clicks but um but it's one of those things where you know I learned a lot uh during that deployment that the big thing that happened for me at least was uh when I was at the out station one of them um uh shin uh there was a a unit team there that doing uh afo stuff and essentially you know they didn't have a you know it's Afghanistan so they were going to do something I don't even remember what exactly it was but they ended up taking my Ranger sniper team because you know long-range Sports so um and I did that mission with them and after that I was like I'm I'm gonna go try out for there when I get back and that was just concrete concrete you know just put in my head and then I had no other I had a great time in range of time while I was there and but when I was I you know at that time I was like a sniper section leader I want to say so I was teaching and I wasn't really learning anymore yeah you know and I was like dude I want to get back to where I'm like the low man on the totem pole I want to get back to where I'm constantly learning and not teaching and so um after working with unit I was like I'm gonna drop a packet when I when I get home how is that received within Battalion is that something where they're like oh well [ __ ] you if you're leaving here or is it encouraged um no it's encouraged um there's places that are not encouraged which I won't say but that is kind of the no no one's going to give you [ __ ] for that yeah what uh can you say why the places that aren't encouraged or not is it because it's not combative no I think it's just um you know Ranger what defines ranger battalion is is always doing things the hard way I think I can fill in the blanks of where that place yeah I'm sure I'm sure you can but it's just it's it's like Cayman like it's the hard way the hard way is the right way and and again that there's there's a reason for that sure um especially when you're getting you know 18 year old you know new people off the street you know it's it's definitely um I put it this way I wouldn't have wanted to start anywhere else but ranger battalion yeah especially at that age yeah it was it was a great uh Foundation of you know it's it's a well more of a special operations unit now but then it was more of an elite infantry unit yeah um and and I think having you know any it's like when I teach CQB I I teach CQB it's it's just um it's it's infantry combat in a combined space yeah there it's nothing disproportionately different than basic infantry things and so I think having that basis of infantry uh Knowledge and Skills is is absolutely critical it's it's the foundation for any kind of special operation yeah um speaking of you know I guess Rangers going to to Delta what is about you know ballpark breakdown of Rangers versus Green Berets that are that make up that unit I say the rain I'm sure many people have said but it's it's high it's more Rangers and green races oh without question really oh yeah it's yeah um what's the weirdest MOS that's not one of those two of a guy that you knew there uh well that's actually easy um that's easy so when I got blown up um the guy standing literally to my right his prior to being in the unit he was a Navy hard hat diver get the [ __ ] out 100 True really yep that's amazing yep Navy hard hat diver that and where he even found out about the unit from I have no idea but he went to selection and made it the fact that he made it is is incredible well if you knew him it would make more sense that guy so I won't say his name to protect his identity but he well I'll tell you so I'll tell you a combat story this is my first mission ever with the unit ever uh in Iraq and so we we go hit this house and I think we're looking for I think we're looking for hostage somebody had been taken I think it was American hostage I I don't remember exactly but we're looking for these sausages anyways we go there and um some we hit it and there was some squirters right and so um and I was a decent Runner and so these squirters man they took off and they're like hey we need uh we need some people to go you know grab these squirters um they weren't using dogs yet no no no well no no we weren't and so um so so this guy volunteers guy what I'm talking about and this guy in my uh Team volunteered who who I knew was a good runner because we'd run together so I was like well if he's going I'm going so you know the three of us are like Hey we're gonna go track down these quarters so we start running what I didn't know was that the guy leading this Chase and these squirters man I give him credit dude they didn't squirt like 200 yards these dudes like squirted like two and a half miles I mean they took off and they didn't stop um but anyways what I didn't know about him is that you ever heard the bad was the bad water Marathon so it's an ultra marathon where they run From The Bottom Of Death Valley lowest point in the United States to the top of Mount Whitney Jesus the highest point in the United States how [ __ ] far is that dude it's like 50 [ __ ] miles it's 56 miles we'll look it up it's the bad water Marathon well this [ __ ] dude had the record Jesus for like four years I didn't know that when I started running so we're running man and I'm like I'm you know in full kit and this dude's like I mean I'm a machine and I'm dying dude I got there and they they were ahead of me and they got there and I'm I'm providing security for these guys I'm about ready to puke and I'm like I can't even get my rifle up I'm so freaking smoked and uh but I'll never forget that I'm like dude later I was like I did not know that did he come from like a crazy upbring or anything I from what I was told and and again I don't want to get too much in his story but I was told that I think of like Forrest Gump yeah he just ran everywhere from what I was told and but I mean yeah he he was he's the best runner I've ever seen wow and so that's why I mean we're talking freakish like I don't think his body builds lactic acid I I don't know what it is yeah yeah yeah so that's what I'm saying it makes more sense that he made it once you know he could run probably for you know when you're doing 56 miles or whatever it is from the bottom the top like he's a machine yeah uh So speaking of the selection going through there how did that compare to what you thought it was going to be oh um you know I didn't really I don't know I don't really remember what my kind you know I I I've always been pretty decent about not having a plan and just kind of going in and seeing what happens yeah I've seen what happens uh I mean selection that selection was like everything else which was you know it was I had a good time you know I mean again did it suck well yeah it absolutely sucked but how much of the breakdown of how it works can you share I I mean I I can't share anything because I don't know anything oh I gotcha I mean literally it's the best kept secret in the military I I every time I thought I figured something out some I'd learned something else that would throw that off like I I literally have no idea and I can tell you that guys that have been there 20 years we've all look all straight up say we're all curious and trying to figure it out figure out what exactly just something like something I mean you know what you went through though right yeah but but but like time standards or like how how it all works together yeah nobody knows anything I mean are are the guys even even the people when you run it don't know oh who the [ __ ] pulling the strings there's one person that knows everything and all of it gets reported to them and they again I don't even know what it is but they're the ones who there's one person the person in charge knows the standard and that gets passed down to and and that's a placement yeah and that's the only person who knows so there's probably now I don't know maybe 10 people who have ever known yeah I mean the the one thing that would concern me about an organizational structure such as that is that it it almost in not almost I mean it invites good old boy corruption as far as who makes it and who doesn't you know um to to a large extent you know well no because the standards the standard there there is a standard but nobody knows what it is well but so I mean I guess to to play Devil's Advocate is that how do you know that it's consistent though with you versus another guy if there's one guy making the decision you can be like yeah I don't like this [ __ ] guy but this guy do you know what I mean yeah I mean I I was saying you're saying but it just when you go there the it really is black and white I mean there's no the level of professionalism in in that course I mean there's no um there's you you know what the the you know you know what certain standards are and if you don't you know and then you don't know what certain standards are but there's no you either make it or you don't and they really like I'll give you an example you know my um My OTC class graduated two enlisted operators myself and another guy that's how many uh how many well so it's it's I don't remember how many we started with but it's also you know from the class because it's a little bit different because you have the selection class and then OTC is a little bit different because you'll have people that may get pushed because of different reasons and people Sub in and out but my point I'm making is like they don't care yeah like they'll run a whole course for two people yeah you know they'll go through the whole process I mean it was you know in total about a year you know probably a year and a half of total work for that so wow um you know it's it's pretty um and and they've had you know they've had also times where people you know have complained about it and Military goes and investigates and you know I don't think they show them the details of everything but it's like no this is this is what it is so they have some kind of tracking system but it's um I have no idea the details of it I mean can you lay out just from your experience what the the different phases look like or um I mean really it's just uh it's really just a land have over open terrain you know um by yourself which is easy and hard you know and and what I mean by that is the the easy part for me I you know I I didn't mind being on my own land napping on my own you know for others you know if you're second guessing yourself or you know that can be miserable um it's it's very you know there's some people that'll make it in a team environment because they can you know kind of get through being the gray man um whereas in that it's all on you you're either um you know you're in your head the whole time and uh you really have to trust your decisions and and you have to also just live with your mistakes in the moment and it's just it's a very it's yeah you're carrying weight over long distances but really mentally it's um it's a mind game yeah against yourself how long is this just the selection uh that's 32 days 30 or 32 days I forget and that whole time is [ __ ] land nav day in day out uh pretty much yeah well yeah I mean there's some other basic stuff but by and large yeah Atlanta wow um and then you go to if if you make it do you remember how many people started and is it broken down that way where it's a class for selection and yeah I mean I don't I don't remember the numbers um I know our class or I remember our class was smaller than usual because it was 2003 and and Iraq had just kicked off yeah um and I was there because I was like we're not going to Iraq we're in Afghanistan there's no way yeah no way then of course I'm in you know selection and Iraq kicks off and I was like wrong about that one you know um but so therefore it was a a smaller class you know ballpark how many started how many things I really have no idea um no I I actually I mean whatever I say won't be right but say probably maybe 50 something something like that started around there I mean usually it's bigger I mean that that was small yeah um I'm just trying to go off the picture in my head but probably 50 something maybe about how many made it through um on that I think it was four or five wow maybe five damn that's crazy uh do do people quit during selection often or is it usually they get cut so the short answer is you don't know really they just disappear no [ __ ] yeah it just disappeared that's some [ __ ] mystifying [ __ ] I mean I think I get that I mean well because because you're alone yeah so yeah you don't they just they're there and then they're gone yeah like I'll I'll I'll say this there was a guy um so you do a 16 Mile Road March um which is like a like in addition to the PT test and again I'm not saying anything that's not I can't go look up on the on the website for the thing but it's a 16 Mile Road March and uh and then and I forget the time you have to do it and I don't remember for me I don't give a [ __ ] about the standard I'm gonna do it as fast as I can do it so I ran the whole thing fast fast I could go which um and this guy this guy passed me at the end who later would be a good friend of mine but um he's a freaking animal but I was like son of a [ __ ] because I thought I was in first and then I get passed by this guy and I'm like damn it you know second all right fine whatever and I just keep going I keep going and I mean I forget the time I did it in but it was good you know I was I was in amazing shape and uh especially with you know uh Running With The Rock and um I'm done and this freak and I'm like all right I got second you know and me and this guy get back and and we get back to like the where we had to like you know take off our [ __ ] and there's another guy there you're like who the [ __ ] is that yeah Mike and dude he had already changed wow he must have been done 10 minutes I'm like how in the [ __ ] I mean do he and I'm not exaggerating he had to have ran five minute miles wow and it's it's a pill like he there's he did five minute miles with the 55 pound Rock God damn and I was like holy [ __ ] like dude but but the the reason I tell that story is I mean that's I was like I was impressed I was like that is incredible and then like a week later that guy was gone wow and I was just like that guy I'm like I'm still here yeah that guy that guy was an animal yeah um but yeah it's just it's weird man it's it's a weird um and it's because you're by yourself so you don't see you don't know who quits who gets pulled whatever it's just you just you you do your thing man and yeah you know you can't uh can't compare yourself yeah and you just keep going yeah so that's 32 days ish and then OTC operator training course yeah is uh your ish I mean again there's some additions to it there's like the core and there's some additions to it yeah and is that uh primarily CQB or are you guys no it's everything look the one thing I'll say about that course on why I think it's amazing um is you because you can come from anywhere yeah a great example being a Navy hard hat diver so it can take a guy that knows nothing in tournaments they go I don't give a [ __ ] what you know you're relearning everything from zero you start with basic rifle more expensive yeah now granted it progresses insanely fast but they start you back from zero which again is it's just it's very well yeah it's a very well thought out um uh structure how they do it and then everyone's on the same sheet yeah well yeah I mean I'm a firm believer and you can't over learn the basics no no no and you know the assumption is you know you were taught the basics wrong which is largely accurate the largely accurate yeah yeah you go back through it you're like oh [ __ ] all right well um I've been [ __ ] that up for 20 years yeah exactly so it's um it's it's again that was I'll say this I would go through selection five times again before I do that course again really yeah well yeah that was a meat grinder no [ __ ] yeah yeah that was a meat grinder um outside of the the Marksmanship the the I guess Small Arms fire maneuvering tactics Etc uh what else is there in that course that you can talk about I mean is it there's air Ops right jumping and you're learning you're learning see so you're getting into true Special Operations and and what I mean by that is you're also learning where you're transitioning from military things to things not in full military like Very Special Operations yeah stuff like OSS kind of [ __ ] basically that would be the you know again the the you know the term Commando yeah you know you're you're definitely getting into things that that are not just Special Operations but specialized Special Operations um which for me you know being there again going back to like first blood and all you know there was stuff there that I was like okay this is this is movie cool yeah you know like this is this is this is what I'd always hope for this this is that level of cool and and um and it was it was exciting for me that that existed yeah you know what I mean after being in the military and you know you're always like ah nothing is ever as cool as you think and then this is the brochure yeah I was like all right this is the video you know this is the this is this is what you had always dreamed of and and um and you know it's um and then same thing you know with deployments you're doing stuff that you're like this is movie cool you know and and that was always I mean it never stopped being I won't I fun isn't the right word it's just rewarding yeah it never you know I was always aware of you know you just it just felt it sounds dumb but you know it felt like uh you know felt like a superhero yeah you know what I mean you're like like this is like Iron Man Jump um you know obviously those movies run out but it just felt like you were in a movie yeah you know is there an example even if it's vague that you can share during the OTC of of something that fall falls into that category of like God damn I can't believe this existed or finally [Music] um so it was uh doing a hit on an aircraft and I think that's pretty known that the unit does those and but it was doing an aircraft hit and I was on the wing coming through the window I just I'm just like crouched there and I'm like this is this is pretty [ __ ] take my picture yeah I was like this is pretty [ __ ] cool you know like thinking of like gsg9 back in you know I don't know I was just that was just one moment I remember I was like night time you know crawling up on a ladder on it I just I was like this is [ __ ] cool yeah you know yeah um and uh yeah that was that that was just one of those moments I remember yeah that's awesome um in terms of so now you make it through your one of two [ __ ] guys um is there a a graduation for two guys where it's like an actual ceremony is like all right you made it [ __ ] go to the squad and [ __ ] off um I I don't I won't say what it is because I don't want to ruin it for anyone but there's something um there's something yeah and uh and then it's [ __ ] off um I mean it's it's not [ __ ] off but it is [ __ ] off because you know you you feel like you're cool and then you get to your team and you do your first thing with them and you go I suck yeah you know you're doing CQB and they're you know you're you're moving you know you're like at a fast pace and they're running yeah and you're like [ __ ] I suck and they're taking running headshots and you're like dude like I thought it was good yeah um and uh and and and then really you know being there the rest of the time there is just struggling to keep up with with everyone around you how has the the reception from from those guys is it very side eye suspect oh when you show up yeah oh it's just like anything you've it's like you know no different than when I was when I showed up to range Battalion no different than when I was a ranger and then I became a sniper it's always starting over yeah you know you suck until you don't yeah you know uh did they hate you at all like welcome aboard hazing um no not hazing but you know they played some some jokes on me that um did you have a favorite of a favorite favorite joke that was played on you um or a best one [Music] time they I was like using a computer this is influja I was using a computer and my email and this is dude this is just this is just chance so I mean what are the odds of this so my email at the time was um like I had done like you know like 666 but my joke was six six two six so it was like a joke well when we were [ __ ] there our task force was six six two six oh man well what are the odds what are the odds and um so they had some like CIA or NSA guy I can't remember basically say that it was like downloading porn on one of the computers and and giving away confident uh classified information that's more than a prank yeah dude I was I mean I was oh dude I was like I I I was freaking out and he's like you know and your email 6626 if you can't give away the Task Force dude they they played that [ __ ] on me for like man it was not fun it was a couple days and finally they broke and no that wasn't funny to me I could tell you I was not laughing [ __ ] um that's brutal yeah yeah that's big boy pranks yeah yeah it was but again you know you got to see what your reaction is to that's you know to stress and things like that but uh but yeah the six six two six I was like dude what are the odds yeah as you guys know uh health and fitness is a big part of my daily routine and my lifestyle I have a number of guests that come on that uh you know that we talk about all all sorts of things health and fitness related uh diet nutrition Etc I started taking athletic greens a few months ago here uh for that reason is that it's a uh all all-encompassing vitamin and mineral supplements 75 vitamins and minerals uh it's lifestyle friendly whether you do keto paleo vegan it's dairy free gluten free less than one gram of sugar there's no GMOs or nasty chemicals there's no artificial anything in it and it's just very nutrient dense and and give you that that supplementation that you need to combat cold and flu season coming up to bolster your immune system and just help with a with a healthy lifestyle right now the the subscription if you sign up for it comes with a year's supply of vitamin D which again uh is is crucial to immune support as well as five on the go packets with that first purchase whether you want to invest in in your health or just supplement an already existing protocol that you have athletic greens has been a a phenomenal staple that I've added into my regimen and I couldn't be happier to be working with them if you want in on that deal go to athleticgreens.com forward slash mic drop and they they do a phenomenal job at all the things that health and fitness wise need to be done on a daily basis so check them out the go to athleticgreens.com forward slash mic drop and they will hook you up with that special deal but was there a point at which you felt like you were one of the guys like or did you always feel like you're just not as good as everybody um no I'd say I'd say by after about a year there yeah I'd say once you get a new guy yeah on the team then you're like okay I'm not the new I'm not the new guy anymore yeah so yeah once we had a new guy then I was like okay I'm I'm not that guy anymore is that uh turnover rate pretty average where it's you know a couple new guys a year or is it more than that less than that no I mean it's pretty slow um yeah it's pretty slow Maybe maybe on average one guy every couple years I mean ish you know it's it's it's a pretty slow um turnaround well there's just not that many numbers yeah and I mean you guys get assigned to like an operator number right uh you mean like uh like your your number well you're just 176 of oh uh no or at least not not then no um no I got I thought that uh like each each guy had had a number like a serial number for for the unit basically that there's been you know X number of hundreds of um I mean not not that I know of I mean I I knew when I left how many there had been total but I didn't know what number I was not a number you can share no yeah no yeah I'll see this though it was lower than I expected a lot lower than I expected yeah yeah and that and that's since the 70s since 77. yeah the number I was like really yeah I was I was shocked wow um in terms of the uh the pipeline you finish OTC going to the unit how long had had you been there before you deployed with them oh uh good question um well so I went it depended on where you went so where I went um so my buddy went and then deployed like right away like I think he deployed within two weeks to depend on which Squad yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah he deployed within like two weeks um for me it would have been after them so I learned it's at least six months I don't remember exactly but yeah in that six months was it uh was it all very similar training in terms of of the skill set or was it a lot of different types of things uh yeah it's pretty I mean you know if if there's anything negative that I'll say about that place um it's and I mean it's not negative about the place but it's just like the it's kind of like I was talking about about being a sniper it's like the the amount of stuff you have to be good at is is too much it's too much in my opinion you know it's it's it's it's so many different skills and so many different missions and and to me maybe it would be sustainable without combat but when you throw combat into it you know you're you're robbing Peter to pay Paul all the time because there's just not enough time to be good at or I shouldn't say to be good but to be current on everything it's just way too much is there a skill set uh a that you can share and B uh that surprised you the most that you guys had to learn how to do um that you're like why the [ __ ] are we learning how to do this or why do we need to know kind of like geometry in high school not not a why I mean everything made sense but I mean I'll just give you an example of like like jumping you know like do the amount of training it takes to execute a Halo or a Halo Mission is absurd it's absurd I mean it's it I mean you know it's a ton of of of jumps as a team and and um again I didn't think it was absurd but I just I was shocked at how much how much training every single aspect took from infill to to x-fill Method you know it's it's an unbelievable amount of time to to get to the level of skill that you need to execute a special operations Mission you know with those capabilities yeah um so you go on your first deployments to Iraq with them the first uh actual Mission you go on you end up chasing squirters down for yeah two and a half miles yeah yeah that was yeah that was yeah that was awesome and that was that was straight off the plane too that we got that mission on the plane oh [ __ ] on the C-17 when we got it actually before we landed so we did that mission from the Airfield if I'm I was taken yeah I mean so [ __ ] the turnover op right no uh yeah no it was just right straight go yeah and again that's you know I think I was building charges on the play I can't remember but it was you know and it is what it is you know that's that's what you're there for yeah did uh did your first time uh being on an operational Mission with KAG um how did that kind of resonate with you internally or did it or were you just so fast-paced that it didn't even set in dude I'm a Delta Force [ __ ] operator doing [ __ ] I mean I was just excited you know it was just Again drink I mean quite frankly a dream come true you know um you just look at the people around you and you know I mean you suck compared to them but you're there yeah for a reason too you know yeah I mean you'll you'll you know everyone starts somewhere you know but um but I just I was just excited to to be there and and to be with um you know it's the culmination of you know however well I mean really a lifelong dream quite quite frankly and um yeah it was just uh I was excited yeah if the minimum standard wasn't enough it wouldn't be the minimum exactly exactly um as far as that deployment how long were you guys there for um well so we that that that was out of um well obviously we landed in Baghdad but we spent the rest of that deployment in well mostly in falluja um this was in o4 I forget how long we're there maybe four months three four months whatever and um yeah so we were in Fallujah after that um I don't know maybe we were there for a week and then we spent the rest of the time pretty much inclusion yeah and uh Fallujah at that time was uh it was it was Insanity yeah it was it was surrounded by the Marine Corps at the time and this was post um in the Blackwater incident on the bridge and and it was just it was like World War II yeah you know I mean freaking I remember getting I'll never forget going and we were going to some Marine outpost on the uh would be the north side of falluja and I remember coming into the I don't even want to call it a base it was like a even calling it a compound is is kind of an exaggeration because it was so small but I remember coming in there and getting out of the vehicle and just up on like a little perch this dude was just cyclic with the mark 19. you know and I'm like all right so so that's how it is here okay cool um yeah it was uh yeah it was it was just you know Colin Cass in the city and freaking watching Cobra gunships you know tanks it was just it was on a scale that didn't even remotely compare to Afghanistan yeah um was the operational Tempo constant when you were there um there it was not compared to the next one because of Fallujah we would still have to go do stuff like we ended up jumping onto hits you know and we bounced around um but the the next deployment was not even remotely comparable in terms of of uh Pace yeah way faster oh we've yeah we were we were doing hits every single night and that was in Afghanistan no no this this the next one in Iraq again was just based out of Baghdad non-stop yeah non-stop missions uh going back to the Fallujah stuff um was there a a general 30 000 foot Direction given to you guys as the Storm Troopers if you will like either going there getting ready to go there once you got there of hey here's here's kind of the the general concept of why we're here what we're doing what we're trying to accomplish like here's our goals yeah yeah we all yeah the that place was very good at that we always knew how we fit into the bigger pitcher what the intent was we always I always knew I always knew what what the big goal was what our part of it was what our intent was can you share that well at least uh you know at that time so at that time in in Iraq like you know everything was was uh um essentially you know taking out the um the facility you know the the I mean until we went after zarkawi for [ __ ] I don't even know how many years you know five years or whatever it was um so it was always related to taking out the exactly and that that was always there was always the the general concept of what it was yeah um throughout that uh that deployment where they're operations that went um horribly wrong for you guys um so there was there was an operation that um was very it's very frustrating so essentially what happened was um a marine unit was I forget why but they were basically going from where they were at they were pushing like 100 yards into another part of Fallujah to get a different perspective so they pushed and and you know we we didn't go as a team which was frustrating um and again a lot of politics involved you know but a team did go um a team and some elements got to go and I remember just I mean I just knew I just knew it was going to be bad and um and sure [ __ ] like I mean they got hit hard hard hard hard and uh so then we came in as qrf and uh I mean the Marines got hit hard or the team from Europe well both because they were they were with them so yeah they I mean it was for lack of a better term like Somalia you know level stuff and uh um it's in a book I'm trying to think of the book that it's in uh but you know to uh of the three you know unit people there two of them got DSes um one got a silver star um I forget um I know one Marine lost his life named Austin I can't think of his last name uh but it was just it was It was a it was just frustrating you know because you know you knew it was going to happen and there was like nothing you could do to prevent it and then by the time we got there you know the most of the stuff had had been most of the damage had been done and it you know I I still wish you know that that uh now that being said had we been there you know maybe we would you know we would have all died who knows but um but that was a hard one um what did you guys do once you showed up didn't mean were you able to break contact and no see that we pretty much they had to well what got him out of it was freaking tanks like Abrams came in and just freaking I mean it was it was extreme did tank stuff yeah and did take stuff yeah well that was you know Abram's one of the few things that the the Insurgency was scared of for for good reason because RPGs bounce off of it but um yeah they came in and and and basically bailed them out uh by the time we got there you know most of the you know most of the enemy was gone yeah um and it was just uh I mean you know our one of my buddies you know he he was literally covered head to toe in blood oh like head to toe in Blood and uh and so we got there and I saw him and I was just like dude like you you need to change like because they were going to the funeral of the guy that just died which he was carrying which is he had his blood on him and I was like dude you need you need to change and so he went and put on a new uniform to go to the funeral and or not the funeral but the you know um yeah it just I don't know man it was one of those just uh I don't know you just feel like you know something's gonna happen and it does there's nothing you could do about it the spidey sense yeah just I don't know I I remember just knowing what was going to happen and and couldn't do anything about it and and then then after it happened it was just like one of those things where it's like well what you know well had you been there what if and all these different things and um uh but yeah that that I mean that was a a big uh a big big battle um and I was just pissed we missed it quite frankly um another thing I was you know that was a very frustrating deployment too because I set it on the invasion of Fallujah briefing I walked out of it no I was so disgusted I walked out of it oh why because it uh and just in in the plan you know you know people are going to die like there's no way you just know was it I mean were you thinking yourself like who the [ __ ] came up with this or was it just there is no right answer and why are we doing this I mean personally I I I to me I looked at it and went this is like you to me I was like you don't have to do it this way like you don't have to do it this way this is a very conventional way to do it there's a another way to do it like where unconventionally where I think you literally risk way less and again you know who am I to but I just remember looking at the plan and just going you know like there's going to be dozens killed from this from this plan and and with this plan there's no way around that and to me it's just like well then don't go with that plan yeah you know and of course they didn't invade then but whatever it was six months later it's like over 50 Marines lost their lives on Fusion I just again I remember watching it on the news and just [ __ ] being disgusted by it yeah and again you know it is it is it is what it is but I just remember and we'll go into the details of the plan but I just was like dude that's literally the worst way to go about this yeah um on that same deployment was there an operation that couldn't have gone better that you're just like dude is this a [ __ ] movie like you just crushed everything and I swooped in and [ __ ] the prom queen or what yeah there actually was one um actually it's funny you say that this this was in missoul I think the first one I didn't I don't remember but I through we I can't remember if we I think I was the ground element oh yeah I had to have been I had to have been so we were at the front door and we were already set up on the door had the charges and uh they came in I don't know who I forget who but they roped and um on top and uh and just I remember being where I was and the charge blew and just all the windows shattered right around me was this just an hvt yeah yeah yeah yeah I remember who was or what you know whatever but I like I think by the time we got to him like he had his uh I can't remember if this this is the one and a lot of them bleed together but one of them we I think this is the one where we caught the guy in bed and um he had the AK next to him like and my buddy basically just like he went to reach for it my buddy muzzled and split his head open actually it wasn't that hard but it's just like nope yeah and uh and but yeah that one was just like I don't know again it was one of those movie moments where I remember hearing the helicopter you know they you know blew the thing we got in there and cleared so fast we got to him in bed and reached where they came everybody's like nope just slammed him on the head but that was yeah that was that uh again it's just a yeah I mean it wasn't a cool gun fight but it was a cool moment of like yeah I mean the big thing about that was it was it was fun to you know you have all these turds you know setting IEDs and and doing all this stuff and and it was nice to hit them at their house yeah and be like yeah come literally with their pants down exactly you know you're you're now we're at your house buddy you know and I always I don't know that was the the fun part about that job was was hitting them at their home yeah on on their Turf and uh not the other way around yeah um did you uh like I know operational Tempo wise it wasn't like the subsequent deployment but um could you ballpark about how many operations you went on there I I don't remember whatsoever I mean at this point it's so long ago I mean yeah I have no idea yeah were there any uh that stood out as being like long dick dragger like several hour gunfights no not on not on that one I mean most of most of the things at least in Iraq were relatively quick yeah um relatively quick um those would be or at least from what I know that that happened way more often when Afghanistan resurged later um that's when you know yeah that three days well and the thing too is I think it's just it's also dictated by the terrain you know when you're in the center of Baghdad it's yeah you know just a bunch of houses and and uh it would be it's just so easy to maneuver and or you know call in you know little birds to come and just drill it or whatever so um were there instances uh where you did that where it was like uh let's say it's even a couple hours or an hour where it's like pretty intense and little birds come in and [ __ ] just lay waste um no the well we had um oh no we didn't have little birds on that one the like in Fusion we were calling um calling uh f-18s yeah and just dumping freaking 500 Pounders on it and then and then we'd call Specter but but you couldn't fly little birds over Volusia because they get shot down yeah um so it was it was fast movers and then uh and then Specter um which actually I think we now I think about it I think the we called the f-18s it was day I mean obviously a hall they all asked they're not getting shot down I don't care how low they fly um and then when it hit dusk we had the uh the Specter that we called in and just I mean I remember I mean we hammered this one uh this one building I mean pretty much shot I think everything I I think Specter left because it was freaking Winchester but um yeah little birds they had cobras we we never messed with Cobras um or Apaches uh no we didn't uh we never had Apache well it was because the Marine Corps was there so it was all cobras but they called cobras and I don't know why the the cobras you know could come in um even in the daytime whereas the little birds can't maybe I don't know how they operate differently but uh but we never wasn't a platform we had access to yeah um were there instances where you could pinpoint um close air support 100 saving your ass [Music] um not there um not not there yeah again that would probably be because you really you just couldn't generally get to that in Baghdad yeah you know and then in Fallujah um because you couldn't get into the city so you'd be on the outside of the city you know firing in and and but but you weren't like in you know um you couldn't like again that Marine unit pushed 100 yards and yeah you know it it blew up the next morning uh anything else on that first deployment that's uh no I mean you know again it's all um I mean for me at this point it feels like a million years ago yeah it feels like another lifetime you know I for sure know what you mean um so you come home how long were you home before you went back um well I think probably nine months or eight no no it'd be like eight months yeah and was it pretty Turn and Burn as far as doing lots of training when you were back yeah yeah you you know paced in you know still busy training doing everything yeah it was uh are you married uh no no were you then or uh no I so I see when did I so I'd gotten separated right before the second deployment okay yeah I mean just never there and it's just kind of standard [ __ ] no no it was I never should have got you know I was young stupid so say no more yeah yeah yeah no no I mean I look actually ironically I haven't talked to her in like 12 years or whatever it's been and I talked to her literally like three weeks ago out of nowhere yeah but yeah I mean I was just military married you know you know for BAH they dude for all the for all the usual wrong reasons you know and then um and then I got this new girlfriend you know and and uh or I met this new girl and then I was like dude I should have never got married and so I I got separated and then I had this new girlfriend right right before my second appointment yeah uh so you go on the second deployment was it a similar uh 30 000 foot view of hey we're here to take out key or something no it was it was it was more kind of a hybrid between zarkawi at that time and um and and IED makers okay specifically I mean IEDs were so it was let's we got to get rid of the ID makers yeah or the sorry vbid makers yeah this is 0.506 yeah yeah uh yeah I mean that's the height height of the time there for sure um so what was that like when you went back uh was it noticeable that this is a different deployment it was night and day how uh how how was the what was the biggest contrast I mean just every Target was bad guys yeah yeah it was it was it was way hotter yeah way way way way hotter yeah and uh from from from the jump yeah I mean I don't even remember the first mission second point but yeah I mean it was it was every Target was was bad guys yeah um do any of them stand out that you uh that you do recall for any reason yeah I mean I I you know one stands out just because it was um it was just a interesting it was an interesting self test for like a bit of terms so we hit this house well actually ironically um we hit this house and uh again the guy that I mentioned earlier the Navy hard hat diver who would be next to me getting blown up later but we're hitting this house and dude he pretty much mag dumped and shot like I don't even know how many guys like six eight I don't know but they all kind of channelized trying to leave the front and so I mean he shot like six or eight dudes with the full Mech and um think we came in from I don't remember how we came in but uh anyways I mean there was like I said six or eight guys all shot to [ __ ] and uh um and you know once once Target was done uh at that time I had a camera and I was doing the digital photos of you know the faces and everything and so um I come into the kitchen and uh there was a guy that was still I mean he was shot up but he was still breathing but I could tell just by labored breed you know just sounding his chest and everything I'm like this guy's not gonna make it and um so I kind of went down and I took a picture of him as I'm supposed to and then I just kind of realized like he's probably gonna die in 30 SEC you know just quickly and again call it morbid curiosity but I just I just sat there and I probably had my foot or my face a foot from his face and uh I was just curious to see kind of what I thought or what I felt and nothing like I didn't it didn't even didn't even um like there was no Universal human set nothing like it just it didn't even register I didn't give a single [ __ ] you know and and again though it's because as I think you said earlier you know I mean I knew before even going on that Target in the briefing I mean these were all either they were either suicide bombers or they were part of making the VB IDs so you're well into the piece of [ __ ] category in my world so I just I mean but still even in that category I was thinking maybe there's some Universal sadness or something and and there wasn't and uh to be perfectly honest I I felt kind of bad about it you know I was kind of like [ __ ] so let's it's ruthless you know like I thought there'd be I really thought there would be something like and I and I think I was I think I was watching to hopefully feel something and then when I didn't I was like oh [ __ ] you know what does that say about me you know and um but at the same time to this day doesn't bother me like I don't you know [ __ ] that guy has there have you thought about that uh periodically since it happened is it something that no no not not I mean in a not not in a feeling or emotional way like I said like I could to this day [ __ ] them yeah like I I'm glad he's dead yeah but um but I had to kind of understand why I didn't feel anything I had to come to terms with you know I'm a good person and I have the utmost empathy for good people innocent people but as soon as I put you in the piece of [ __ ] category and your Universe you know like for sure I [ __ ] dude I'll watch you burn and not give a single [ __ ] yeah you know and that's just I think that's something in all of us that allowed us to do that job yeah was there any exceptions for you or for any of the guys that you worked with that you ever encountered um people like what do you mean any exceptions to that like second thoughts or second guessing or no no and I would say no because we were very lucky to do the job we did with the Intel we had it's very black and white very black and white yeah I mean well so there was one time and this might have been the first point I I don't remember in fact well no I don't remember but we hit this dude's house and man I think this was second deployment actually we had this dude's house and and freaking I remember I remember my buddy going through The Interpreter and interrogating him and then he caught him lying and I remember him pulling the bookcase down and it was just like it was crazy and then we found money and it was just like you're [ __ ] lying you know American money that was like red flag bad guy thing and dude we keep going through this and then they told me to blow up the cars and like I remember these two little kids coming up to me and being like you're gonna blow up our cars and Michael I'm going to blow the [ __ ] out of your cars like I'll never I'll never forget that long story short I don't it wasn't even that night it was like I don't know Days Later find out that the guy was like he was working with the 101st Airborne total good guy working with Americans but he and we the intel was wrong and and and what but but he you know what he was used to in Iraq or the corruption and different units he was lying to us on who he was working with because he didn't know you know and he's like and he then he's like well if I tell him I have money maybe they'll take it so it was just I that was the only thing that I ever did that or you know the only thing we ever did that I was a part of that I I felt I mean you know they they took care of him you know we didn't hurt anyone yeah yeah no no one got hurt and I mean they we definitely I mean I personally blew up his cars and you know we [ __ ] that house up but I'm sure they made it right yeah yeah but um but I'll never forget that because it was just like kids you know they were so you could have pull up the curse oh I'm gonna blow the [ __ ] out of this boat that go to English yeah oh yeah they spoke English yeah yeah yeah yeah what did they do when you told them you're gonna blow the [ __ ] off they were excited and that's again I remember thinking that's that's odd yeah yeah you know they're not afraid of me like they're they're excited and I just remember thinking I think that's where I fell into the sewer too if I'm not mistaken um you know how they just had the holes within like [ __ ] oh disgusting but I think it was the same Target but like I said it all you know yeah I have a buddy who every Target he'd write an AR every single one and personally or officially no no personally in in hindsight man like yeah dude that was so smart is he still on active duty no he's out now I asked her about it he said he still has it yeah yeah um the uh same question on that deployment were there any operations that went catastrophically wrong uh on the second one well yeah the one you got blown up yeah yeah I guess I'd like to if we can save that for the last story um yeah no nothing I mean nothing catastrophic other than that one any other uh memorable ones that uh that you can share were you guys using dogs yet yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah do you have a cool dog story uh yeah yeah I got a cool dog story so um we came upside a taser at the time really yeah like the military like yeah and um car battery taser oh dude it was I mean that thing was [ __ ] strong and uh we came up and it was like they had like a firing position in a in like an old bus I I don't remember where we were but um we came up and I remember thinking like I was going to get up because I mean we do bus assaults you know so I knew in my head what I was gonna you know go do and I was gonna pop up and but again we didn't know what they had at the time and I mean we were prepared and we were just about to hit it and dude they sent the dog and and as soon as the dog got sent I remember we ran after it and dude that dog when they pulled that guy out I mean it looked like he wrestled a chainsaw dude it literally tore his arm off it hit his arm was just done yeah like and that was and it only had a hold of him for maybe maybe 30 seconds maybe probably not even and dude it pretty much chewed his arm to [ __ ] and I was like holy [ __ ] I I mean I was I was you know I'd seen the dogs do bite but not that was the first live bite I ever saw and I was like like he didn't bite him he [ __ ] ate him yeah you know um and that was when I was like I'm not [ __ ] with that yeah I'm like yeah I didn't [ __ ] with them to begin with but I was like that's not what I expected them to do yeah um but uh what was the uh so did that end it did the dog basically nullify you oh yeah yeah yeah well because we were gonna you know we were going to basically do like a bus assault you know and just kind of come over the top Through the Windows and then they're like no [ __ ] it we'll send the dog and then the dog went and we chased the dog and then like I mean that that ended it yeah done did you ever uh get to take down an airplane like you did in training oh no no one's there's been no uh no live uh aircraft stuff I would imagine I mean clearing Wise It's probably it's similar to a bus though right oh yeah it's the tubular assaults are all very similar but but aircraft has some unique nightmares yeah I mean to me no one wins assaulting an aircraft there's live I don't think there's a way to do it without losing people you know both uh hostages and and uh um part of the rescue team yeah uh any other good dog stories whether it was uh finding IEDs that saved your ass or any other good bite stories um no just because we at that time we didn't do as much dog stuff as as it really picked up after that yeah um that's the only I mean there was other well I mean I remember actually another dog thing that I do remember is I remember how our dog could go in and and know whose house it was which I was like how the [ __ ] like how does the dog know yeah and we came to a theory which is if if it's your house and dude hit it your fear is going to be the highest yeah well I guess if you can uh explain the the context around knowing whose house it is and in what regard well the dog would go to the person whose house it was so let's say there's 10 guys there the dog would go and like bite the person whose house it was oh I got you and we're like how the [ __ ] does it know I mean it's purely old Factory at that point yeah yeah but but you know what I mean we were like the dog it's not yeah yeah so it's supposed to do that but yeah and we were like it wasn't trained to how would it how would you train it to know you know yeah I mean you I mean that's a that's a hard wiring so you know one of the things uh from a dog training standpoint that uh I tend to find amusing is when people say that they're they're teaching a dog tracking um you're you're not teaching them to track you know you're refining left and right flanks to which you want them to track they obviously already know how yeah which is why they're a species at this point you know because if they couldn't track they wouldn't be but um but so in in an instance like that no different than most people's assumption that a dog because their hearing is so much better than ours that that's how that they understand that somebody is in your house that isn't supposed to be and while that does take place uh overwhelmingly it's the smell that a dog picks up that somebody isn't supposed to be there or that somebody like as an example if you've been gone and you come home you know from a protection dog standpoint a common theme is you know hey we travel a lot and we come home we want to send the dog into the house first Etc um you know and that dog moves through the house it's going to smell if somebody is there uh far far faster than they're going to hear something so no different than um you know the way that a dog tracks a human being is through the the sloughing of skin um you know that that falls off of your body yeah yeah you know and so if if house x uh you know has all of the same sloughing of skin that this individual has then it's a it's an easy pairing to make for the dog at that point but all right so obviously the uh that's the the last of the dog stories nothing else or does anything else stand out uh before we talk about the the injury operation uh not offhand did you guys lose any guys uh from your team um not no not then no um so if you could kind of give us the uh the play-by-play on uh the day that you got injured that would be yeah that would be good yeah so there's some critical um unfortunately there's some critical things that set it up that I that I can't talk about which is unfortunate because it would if I could it would make a lot more sense why certain things happen the way they did but um anyway so uh it was you know uh uh hitting Slaughter city um again sarkawi Target which was common um and did a uh a video vehicle drop off you know because it's Sutter City you know so we walked into Target um it's a you know weird area um kind of a shanty town um but so we come in and um and then the house that we were told it was you know we I don't think we put charges on the door I can't remember but anyways we um I was a breacher at that time and uh we hit the house you know came in and pretty much right away I at least my Spidey Sense was like uh I this is these aren't these aren't bad guys you know the just everything that I had come to know at that point and I was like yeah I'm just I'm not I'm not getting the vibe you know from these people and um so I remember I was uh pulling Security on like I want to say a man a wife and I think one kid I don't remember exactly but um but anyways I'm there and uh and then we get the call and this is like 30 45 minutes go by you know you got The Interpreter or the interpreter's got to come in and figure [ __ ] out talk to everyone you know it takes time and then uh after 34 30 or 45 minutes you know we get a call um you know here over the radio that my team and another team are getting pulled outside so we go outside and the other team that got pulled was actually a team from Dev from the unit you know I portray on TV um you know so we had a whole team with us and um so we both get called out that team starts to just like another it's about again from what I remember 100 yards away I'm sure that's not accurate in reality but that's what I remember and um so they start going around to the front side of the house and we're heading towards the back side and um you know next thing you know it's the most gunfire I've heard at that point it was the most gunfire I'd heard at one time by far um and I think from what I remember was like eight dudes like in one room with AKs shooting like a hornless nest yeah it was it was it was excessive I mean it was it sounded like Fourth of July and uh so immediately I want to say three or four guys got shot up on on the front side um I mean they hadn't even made it to the door obviously because you know those guys were it was an ambush they were waiting for him um and then so we ran um you know I was breached like I said at the time so you know I'm thinking of uh you know getting a charge up whatever getting in the the backside door so we go over a wall get inside there um cleared [Music] um like a kitchen cleared room um which kind of an interesting story The the room um second room that we cleared I went in and uh uh AK hit me in the chest wow that's how close he was as soon as I turned right the gun hit me um and you know behind him was an outline at least you know I can't remember if I saw this through nods or under nine you know I don't remember but um but I remember well it had to be under nods because I remember it being either pink or purple I I don't know but I knew I was aware you know that it was probably his wife or a woman I should say and uh just assume they're gender Tyler is that what happened yeah I'm a real piece of [ __ ] um and so I I you know I just my gun was up but you know at that time so much HR hostage rescue uh shooting I I didn't you know bullets will go through so I just and it was very quick decision but I ended up grabbing the gun and uh um and not shooting them uh anyways and then we came outside that room started to go down the hallway and I just the whole hallway just lit up and it was basically that room and those guys were shooting through the wall was there a pretty constant gunfire the entire this entire time oh yeah yeah yeah yeah well but it wasn't it was happening but I don't think they knew we were in the house again it's what I remember I don't think they knew we were in the house I think they still thought they were just in front until we were in the hallway then they figured out that oh [ __ ] they're also here so then they just started shooting through the through the hallway and the guy to my left at the time I think he got hit three times I don't remember um and I just remember him saying I'm hit and then so well and had he not said that it wouldn't have mattered I mean the the just the the concussion of the rounds coming through the wall I don't know how it didn't hit me but it was it was it was intense so we backed up if we would have kept going we didn't done for sure and then we went back and uh and then that guy went I assume outside to you know to get some Medical Aid and then I ended up or the guy told you about ended up next to me um and we were kind of at a tactical um conundrum because you had a hallway and at the end of the hallway was a door I mean uh you know maybe it was you know seven eight meters I don't know but you can't hook a grenade you know into a door there's no way to throw a grenade you know into that door so the only way to do it is you know the plan we're coming up with is that you know I'm gonna shoot basically I'm you know we're gonna basically really [ __ ] put down some you know through the wall and then and then at the door frame to where we can just go up close enough to hook a grenade in that that was it was the best it was the only thing we could do and um and we just okay that was the plan and then I remember him like going down to grab a grenade and then that was it I just everything exploded um I don't remember I remember being on the ground and I remember looking up and I remember seeing like oh so it blew the nods off because that's probably important it blew the nods off my face so I had no nods so I just remember seeing like like a glow like an ember glow and this like swirl of you know it's obviously Dusty as [ __ ] there and just the dust swirl it was just I just remember being confused and just being like what you know what the [ __ ] just happened and um I mean the power of the explosion was just do you know what it was uh did they ever find out what yeah eventually they found out um but it was uh it was it was a very large explosive was it ammonium nitrate no no no no no no but it was it was a very large amount of explosive that's one of the details you can't get into and uh and it it basically um I mean the pressure it just like the way I describe it is you know like in the in the Avengers movies when the Hulk grabs somebody and he just like slams them yeah that's how it felt you know just I felt like uh Ragdoll yeah I felt small to to the power of it and um and then I also felt like any I know it sounds weird but it felt like my arm was gone like I felt that I couldn't feel it I know it sounds more makes sense yeah it was just and so I was like well my arm's gone and maybe it's because I'm a movie fanatic I don't exactly know why but I like flashed to Saving Private Ryan and like kind of felt on the ground from my arm and then I was like well that's dumb guy I couldn't see anything and um because it's still dark in there and then I don't even know you know so blew the nods off it [ __ ] up my gun I mean my arm was [ __ ] and I don't even remember seeing like the guy who got blown up next to me he he was unconscious but I I didn't even I don't even know where he was like I don't remember seeing him um and so I remember kind of like standing up and then going like I need to I need to figure out what's going on so I walk out out back and there's like a porch light and that's when I looked at my arm and I mean this you know was flayed out I mean from here to here it was just hamburger meat and it blew up eight different like chunks so I I can't even it was holding on by the like half if you think about it the fact that they were able to fix it I I mean when I looked at it there was Zero question in my mind that it was done yeah not even debatable and um so I looked at it I'm like Oh my arm's gone and then uh and then I remember thinking well I'm going to be that guy with one arm and then I remember thinking [ __ ] I've got an arterial bleed and I'm like I don't have that long before I'm gonna pass out you know because you're walking around thinking this while shit's still going on yeah yeah yeah well I wasn't really I was probably maybe I was taking a couple steps in the back but because I was stepping away from the door frame um what was not to interrupt but what were the other team members doing were they still react I didn't see anyone oh wow no I think and again that's not to say they weren't I just I was like in my own world I I don't know how to explain it pain um I was aware I was in shock so I was aware that it was severe like in my head I was like I am [ __ ] up you know you know what I mean um but I wasn't I could I could feel it but I was also a little detached from it or hard to explain and then I saw the wall remember that I came over and I'm like well that ain't happening no so then I just ended up putting my back against the wall and and sitting down um and then I you know how do they teach you to put on tourniquet when you put your arm out well that ain't [ __ ] gonna work right now so like I've got this tourniquet I don't know what to do with it because I can't I I just I couldn't do it well yeah because it's like you gotta Loop it around it was just it just wasn't possible and um uh and here's an interesting true part of the story is so then somebody gets to me I don't remember them I I just remembered them appearing I don't know how they got there and uh they put the tourniquet on me Again by chance coincidence fate whatever you want to call it it is the same guy that I went on the mission with in Afghanistan in 2002. no [ __ ] what are the odds wow yep that's who the tourniquet on me ultimately saving my life I mean among other people along the way but um yeah sheer sheer crazy [ __ ] and um really solid guy so he was one of the four guys that you were on the recce mission with yep dude that's crazy yeah I actually won a three I think it was only three of them at the time does he go through selection after you I take it oh oh no no no he was he was in the unit uh no no he was in the unit he was the one of the guys in the in the uh the unit team I got you yeah he was he was a way senior yeah he was a team leader actually of a team um wow yeah which I don't think he was team leader yet when he was in Afghanistan but um and uh so yeah he puts the tourniquet on me and then he hits me with the you know gives me because I think it blew it like I had all been morphine in my right pocket when I was gone it reminds me of Matt nyman's story which I'll I'll tell you oh really it's kind of a similar thing yeah so uh but he gives me the morphine auto injector and like five minutes goes by and he's like how you feeling I'm like I still feel like [ __ ] you know so then I think he gave me another one and five minutes goes by yeah yeah not good long story short turns out in the hospital I'm morphine intolerant doesn't do it oh [ __ ] doesn't do anything to me is that all opioids uh no it's just morphe that's why they um it's actually why they developed Dilaudid oh okay for people like myself that morphine doesn't work on so um so I was not feeling awesome um until I finally got the uh the fentanyl when the medic finally got to me because he was doing with the guys that were shot on the front and then you know he finally got to the back and dealt with me and then I mean I was lucky you know I got um I was lucky because I got uh you know they had they landed a little bird um I can't remember if it was a or if it was a gunship I I don't remember um but they literally put me in the hell hole on a on a little bird wow and then the medic just sandwiched me with his body um and then they flew me to uh the cache in Baghdad um so I was evaced pretty quick yeah which which again you know had had I been probably conventional for I mean the medic alone you know the the immediate treatment I got from that guy then our medic who's one of the best you know one of the best 18 Deltas ever and then you know getting to the to the the hospitals so quick I mean all those things if it wasn't for any one of those factors I definitely wouldn't have my arm let alone would I be alive I I doubt it yeah you know I had a doctor tell me that that because I was doing I don't remember why I was so focused but for whatever reason at the time I was really into cardio and I was doing a [ __ ] ton of cardio and um on my blood volume and the doctor was saying that he has had you not had your heart not been in such a shape he's like I I don't think you would have wow I don't think your heart would have uh or I was able to to keep pumping at such a low heart rate or whatever it was yeah he said that was a that was a factor too because I lost you know I mean a [ __ ] ton of blood but um and then I got the hospital and then they told me when I went into surgery or right before I went into surgery I would say before they well actually they told me after they hit me with drugs they're like uh you know we're going to remove your arm you know and I was like [ __ ] whatever dude do whatever you want go crazy yeah I don't care take the other one [ __ ] it yeah as I cut my legs off I don't give a [ __ ] you know um and then the next morning I woke up and and uh arm was there and the doctor literally told me um that they just had done so many extremity blast surgeries in in uh in Baghdad at that time that that they were just able to do things that they couldn't do even a year or two prior yeah that's incredible yeah so you had the the initial big surgery in Baghdad yeah so so kind of an interesting tidbit on that is you know Baghdad didn't generate any records I have no idea who the doctors were that ultimately did that initial saving in my arm wow no idea I mean there's no record of it so I don't know records records weren't generated till uh Germany that's incredible I mean you understand you know it's they're probably pretty freaking busy you know they don't have time to yeah you know they're not billing your insurance you know out of Baghdad but um you know well do you have Tricare coverage for this so um yeah I've no idea who who those doctors were that are obviously very significant to my life now and I have no idea who they are I mean I'm sure I could you know spend a lot of time and try and figure it out um but uh unfortunately there's there's not a I would love to just say hey thanks you know yeah uh do you know slash can you share um what happened at that Target after after you got hit do you know what the outcome was so uh entry was made and uh all those dudes died yeah that whole room got smoked yeah how many guys were there eight I mean I think it was eight in that room again it's been I'd have to talk to you know I mean I guess total on the Target because there were six or eight initially right well there was one in the so so so the intro and this is actually an interesting thing is you know those guys all died however many there were in that room 60 again I I actually never saw them personally um that was just what I was told but um the only guy the only person that lived on that Target was the guy that I didn't kill really yep that guy right well and the the woman obviously um but that's the only person that lived and if there's anything that I regret it's not shooting that guy yeah and the reason is I should be clear the reason is it was his house oh well he was the facilitator that's why his wife was with him and that's why the other guys were in the other room is they were sleeping in sleeping bags in the other room yeah it was his house you know he was in the bedroom with his wife and you know for many years I thought uh you know did he you know go through the process get out like many did and and then go start you know jacking Americans up again you know I don't know but so that ironically my biggest regret is not I mean just sidestepping at a different angle and shooting him but again I mean it was so quick yeah I I can't blame myself um and probably grabbing his gun was probably the cooler thing you are a Hollywood guy yeah it was probably the cooler move if somebody would have been filming it um but uh oh [ __ ] but I you know I just uh I always regretted um that especially after what happened to me obviously sure you know did the guy um your teammate that got shot up was he everyone everyone was fine he that guy was like a [ __ ] robot built out of like I mean his guy was a big muscle so yeah he everything was pretty superficial like I think it was the arm bicep you know it was all because if you think about the angle it came from this way yeah and he was like further out so it was all kind of relatively superficial stuff the guy that got blown up next to me um he was unconscious for like two hours holy [ __ ] yeah it was all he took a lot of um and actually true story him and I figured out later if if we switch positions we would have both been decapitated really yeah because it would just it would have the frag that so my helmet I mean I I've got my helmets because of the height difference yeah oh wow yep damn that's [ __ ] crazy yep yep um also also of note um I was wearing a groin guard with a hard plate really four by four hard plate which we had just got and I was maybe one of two or three people wearing them and uh I've I've still got that to this day and uh it still blew off part of my scrotum holy [ __ ] I have not had that hard plate and that um that grain guard game it would have taken out everything [ __ ] man yeah does that injury [Music] um have an impact on you no it's it was aesthetic well at first so what they basically did was they took some of the some of my scrotum and like cut it off so like for like four years my it was lopsided which is funny because over time well it just balances out like the weight balances out so I I mean I had I again super lucky I had God damn lizard's tail down there I I had no negative effect from it whatsoever but that's true man yeah and now you wouldn't even know or dude like I mean you can slap your sack on the table if you want dude four years ago I [ __ ] you know well maybe I don't know how many years ago but I was like in the shower and I just kind of thought of that scar or you know because they sewed it back to like you know my body and so I was like I wonder if I can still see it I'm like in the shower you know I got like a mirror down here and I'm like I hope no one comes in right now it's so really weird but but I could I mean I found it but it's it's you know scars Hill crazy over time you know it's wild no no other damage other than that though no it's you know the arm the the scrotum and like I think my leg took you know I still have the casualty card yeah but or I can't remember if it was my right or left leg I don't remember but um um yeah it's you know it's it's all uh it's just a strange you know I have all my kit yeah I'm at you know blood I got I can still got my boots with the blood on it and all that [ __ ] yeah I dude I actually actually this is a good story so you know we got the helmet I got the [ __ ] you know the vest got blood all along and all this [ __ ] and I just it's it wasn't a I it wasn't a big deal to me I mean obviously it's a big deal getting hurt but so I kept that stuff whatever and one day so the girlfriend I was talking about that I still had this is like you know I had already gotten out and and you know I was out medically retired and we were at our house that we bought and I forget why but I opened it up and I pulled the [ __ ] out and she just lost her [ __ ] really and and I and and I I I get it now or I get it I got it then afterwards I did but I didn't even think about it you know what I mean I just [ __ ] I think I was even like showing like oh here's my helmet you know like I mean to me I was just like I've never showed you this and the blood and everything and she just started crying and I was like I felt so bad because I I didn't think of it that way and and she was just you know to her it represented such a important moment and and to see the effect of it that she wasn't there for um yeah I mean it's almost like seeing a motorcycle or a car that somebody died in or something yeah yeah but man I was so unaware when I when I start like oh hey look oh hey the blood's still on it do you have pictures of that stuff uh no what what's a bummer is uh huge bummers I remember I remember Boone when I first got to the hospital to the back I was I never lost well that's not true the only time I lost Consciousness was maybe I don't know how long 10 minutes when they how old they got me over the wall I I have no idea maybe there was a gate I I don't know but somehow they or maybe they took me out the front door I don't know but when they moved me I lost Consciousness um but that was it other than that I was conscious the whole time until they knocked me out for surgery but when I got to the the cash uh into the room you know there was a nurse taking pictures and I was like I want these pictures like here's my email and I [ __ ] gave it to her and like I never got him and I'm still pissed off about that because I would love to have seen what it looked like yeah because I though the first pictures I have are like a month later yeah and I mean it still looks like dog [ __ ] but I can't imagine what it looked like initially um do you know about how long you were in country before they sent you did they send you to Germany oh dude I was I was I got out of surgery and they sent me I got out of surgery and they sent me within within six hours of waking up to Germany yeah how long were you in Germany for a week and then to Walter Reed or I was in Walter Reed for like a day and then they sent me back to Bragg so I could be close to the unit yeah well how long were you in the hospital when she got back to Bragg I don't know I think it was like two months something like that and uh were you medically retired shortly thereafter or no I mean that process while it took you know I mean I guess for all intents and purposes were they like you're going to be medically retired no no they were kind of up so so what they told me was I mean this took a while this took about a year to have surgeries and stuff but they said that you had I want to say it was like 30 I can't remember exactly but it was like there's a you know and obviously this is a guess but you have like a 30 chance of going back to a team after five years that that was the well kind of the prognosis and for me I was like that's too long it's a too long it's B too low and and again the the sad the sad part is at the time you know this is like I don't know six whatever seven I'm like five years five years okay Afghanistan's already over with boy was I wrong about that but you could see what I why I thought that at the time or you know it was right at the time Iraq will be done which also was true but you know I and then I'm like I mean dude Isis wasn't even a Isis wasn't a thing you know and to me I would maybe go back to a team that was now done with war yeah so I was like [ __ ] it I'm out so I I chose they gave me every option I could have done a million things they were great about it and I was just like I was aware enough to know that if I would have stayed and just watched everyone deploy for five years yeah that sucked yeah I would have freaking yeah I I wouldn't have been able to do it yeah uh is there a percentage on how much in terms of the usability of your arm exists uh it's like 30 something it's actually much lower than most people think but you know you know like I can you know these two fingers don't work that well but you know you you get away with it it's deceptive most people most people think my arm's fully functional yeah um but it's it's only about you know it's under 40 yeah as far as uh certain motions pull-ups push-ups curls so so I have to I use a strap and I have to strap into the weights yeah but but I can do everything I just have to I can't grip it is it painful oh yeah still oh yeah oh it hurts every time workout yeah yeah um I don't I admittedly don't watch the show on on CBS uh when it's finished I'll binge watch the whole thing I have a thing about shows I can't stand watching I I understand well yeah I mean I I do the same thing yeah but uh so I'm looking forward to watching it but uh I am curious does that play into the show at all uh it's funny because no we've never addressed it really never do you see it much or at home yeah I mean can't avoid it a lot of times but we've never know if you're like in Full full kit where you're never no I mean you know I wear short sleeve shirts all the time on it we've just never addressed it directly of what it is I mean obviously it plays it would make sense in that former injury yeah from another operation but we've never we've never directly addressed it which you get a lot of questions fan wise about it um every once in a while or do do most of the the hardcore guys know your background I I think so yeah yeah sorry to be boring no no no no no man I'm yeah sorry I know I've been drinking Bros all night I've been flying every day every last like four I've been I've been on a podcast uh uh a podcast uh what's called um uh tour yeah tourists geez that's what I was looking for yeah podcast tour um the does that uh does the the usage of your arm has that uh been a hindrance in terms of what you do on the show at all like have you had to make accommodations for that no no I I can get away with pretty much anything um you wouldn't be able to fast rope right oh yeah really I faster up with it is it hurt like [ __ ] um I really have to like I'll destroy a pair of shoes because I really have to pinch in with my feet because I'm because I it really doesn't the sandwich with my hands doesn't really work that great so I really have to yeah to to get a good bite with my feet yeah especially especially if I'm doing like I'm trying to think of what I fast dripped on the show but you know I think I've done like a like legit broco or or a or a freaking um uh or a saw you know so there's been times where I faster up on the show and I'm like oh [ __ ] you know like like oh I don't want to go this fast um but yeah it's definitely interesting yeah um so in terms of the transition out of the military um that was was a difficult uh process um yeah I mean I I you know I've talked and I mean this podcast is by far the most I've ever talked about being in I I usually talk about being out and don't talk about being in um so this is by far the most I've ever talked about being in uh I appreciate your uh candidness with that oh no no no no I mean it's look it's all relative um to you know being you know being in is is a part of being in sets you up for being out no and what happened when you were um you know it's all relative for for me the thing I like to say is um you know when I got out um and I went into a lot of depth on on another podcast on this which um if somebody wants to know more about it but really the the problem that I had and I think a lot of guys experienced this is that there's no way to do that job without it being your identity yeah so when I was no longer doing that job I no longer knew who I was so what really and I didn't plan to get out it's like I didn't it's not like it was time you know it was it was I got out before I wanted so my identity felt stripped from me felt taken and so when I got out I and of course it's not like you know it's not like I was like oh you know what I'm having identity problems no it's I'm [ __ ] in the head I I don't know what I don't know what my problem is I don't I don't know why I'm having trouble with this I don't know why I'm you know it's it's a bunch of problems that you don't really know why your experience and experiencing them and um now of course over time now I can look back and it was an identity crisis and and I had to uh I had to figure out who I was outside of what I did and that took time yeah uh is there a most difficult part of that process that you recall or like a lowest spot lowest um I mean I've hit several lows um I think the big one was initially finding purpose um that that was you know Finding purpose and finding an identity was kind of one of the same um and then and then I hit another low you know the other low that I hit was you know like and and I'll say it this way is it's very easy to think that life is a mountain it's like you know it's One Direction but it's not it's it's Hills and Valleys Peaks and valleys and um just because you're on a peak right now doesn't mean you won't be in a valley you know in in you know in a year and a week whatever and and just because you're in a valley doesn't mean you're not going to hit a peak so it's to me you just have to to be okay with the highs and lows and you know my last low was like I said before I went to Warriors heart you know I was I you know my girlfriend cheated on me and for reasons that quite frankly were my fault I was working too much and and and and many other reasons but and that just broke me that broke my brain and uh um and then I was because of the accident I was so you know heavily medicated which also contributed to not paying attention and again these are all um regardless of why it happened ultimately it was my fault and my responsibility and um and then I was just I was broken it was absolutely broken and um I had to part of the difficulty of that was it happening again you know it was like [ __ ] how am I here again you know going back to when I was injured post injury it's like okay you know then it had been a pretty good write-up and then this happens and I'm like [ __ ] how am I back here and and what I figured out quite honestly through going to Warriors heart and doing you know 42 days of just work on myself was um I never I realized that I never really my whole life um thought I had value really yeah when it goes back to my childhood what uh what do you think from your childhood uh stemmed that train of thought um so my parents it's a long story but my parent my dad was an alcoholic and just I never saw my dad and then my my brother kind of that I mentioned he just he had a lot of issues and I was a good kid so they just kind of left me alone yeah you know I had imaginary friends and the whole thing and I spent a lot of time alone but subconsciously um I just you know as a kid you develop Things based on a child's perspective which is not accurate and um I developed the that I wasn't worth attention that I wasn't worth love that I wasn't worth all these things again that's not accurate but you know kids are stupid and and you feel like that kind of cemented into the hard wiring of your psyche for your entire life no question no no question I think there's so many things that we don't realize that are so hardwired and it really took I mean I I wouldn't have thought that until really spending a lot of time dissecting every issue that I had and and then that kept coming up which again surprised me but but then when I really thought about it it made so much sense because I was like I mean look I've had you know I would always I mean I I was I still am I still am working at it but I'm a fundamentally self-destructive person really fundamentally uh in what ways well I'll say it this way like you were a seal would you say that's not a self-destructive job no for sure it is and that's my point yeah so it's it's I guess out outside of that are there are there like a number of of examples that are from different perspirin not perspectives but angles lifestyle wise that you're that way we were just talking about it like racing yeah you know motorcycles you know adrenaline yeah it's fundamentally self-destructive I guess I'm getting my eyes opened over here yeah yeah yeah yeah I know that's that's why I'm kind of giving you that look I'm like it's the same thing it's well so I'll give you this because I I haven't explained this on on you've maybe not heard it but so I kept um so I kept getting you know uh first time I went to the VA you know I went I was like okay I'm I'm having some issues I I and I don't know what really even they are and they're like uh all right you got PTSD and I'm like all right what's that I'm like I don't think that's that's no that's not what it is well that's definitely what it is denial is part of I mean I'm you know exaggerating but and I just they kept telling me all these different things and I just kept going it just doesn't feel like that and then one time this thing happened to me which we don't have enough time to go through the whole explanation but I'll give you the the realization I got from it was I realized I'm like I don't have PTSD so then this thing happened and I had to make up what my I had to make up a theory to to to explain my actions and what I came up with I call ltsd I don't have post-traumatic stress disorder I have lack of traumatic stress disorder I need traumatic stress in order to feel comfortable and normal wow is that uh is that your coin I made it up yep yeah yeah I made it up but is there something more to that than so think of it so think of it this way when the environment is absolutely chaotic I'm chill as a cucumber in my mind yeah like I need the chaos in the environment because I'm reverse wired now combat is chaos and the only way to be good in chaos when the environment's chaos is you have to be calm in your mind well once you're reverse wired that way it doesn't go back if it's calm then you're a mess there you go once the environment is calm you're chaotic in your mind so so how do you how do you calm yourself well it's very simple you have to create chaos yeah that's fascinating so you create the chaos you drink and drive you go 200 miles an hour on a motorcycle you get into a fight with your girlfriend your wife your spouse or whatever you yell at your kids you do anything to make chaos happen and then everyone starts freaking out and then you go oh man I can be the calm guy yeah what's the problem here it's all it's all good yeah you know what's interesting is that to me seems like a microcosm of of the American society's problem is that we've been so good for so long that like now we're having to create issues to worry about and that's why a lot of the things that are big ticket items not to say that some of them aren't legitimately catastrophic because they are but a lot of the societal or social issues that people are being Justice Warriors about in the grand scheme of things like that's not really a [ __ ] problem but we're making it a big problem because you know lizard brain wise we don't we don't have tigers chasing us and you know yeah we we don't have the the big problems but you're always trying to to improve your your survival or whatever you need some sort of struggle and some sort of unified fight against some thing yeah so this is like an internal microcosm of that that's fascinating absolutely true and and again every time I bring it up the people go oh that makes sense yeah you know there's a truth to it and so the other thing too is you know it's I I accepted that that okay I need chaos to to um to to be calm and and that's okay and and then it came to all right well then I can't just I just can't go back and I mean just think of this logically this is America first world you know Society This Is War if you're good here you suck here right if you're good there you suck here yeah it that couldn't be more obvious and logical and yet for some reason people act like you can jump between the two yeah and it doesn't work that way so we've been reverse wired to be good in this environment well we now suck here yeah and it brings up something else which is about you know a term that driving you crazy is reintegration yeah reintegration what you're did you join at 18 yeah okay would you say that you were integrated into society as an 18 year old no I mean I I went dude you're in school yeah I mean I I graduated at 17 so I had to wait to turn 18 and then I mean but I grew up in the same [ __ ] house in the same bedroom in the same bed my entire life until I went to boot camp an 18 year old is not in society I could I mean I grew up in the Navy yeah exactly exactly and so what I always say is they always say reintegration and I say [ __ ] you're integrating yeah you've never been in normal society yeah you know you don't know it's not like you knew then you adjusted and then you went back to it you never understood it you were never a part of it to begin with yeah and if you look at it that way well it changes your perspective because then you go into it a little bit more like all right dude this is completely new to me and and I I have a lot to learn I've never been a part of this almost like starting OTC right right down level start start from the beginning and not only that but however long you were in that's how long everyone has a head start on you yeah as you know yeah was there a singular takeaway from whether it was Warrior's Heart or in this journey of yours of of a coming to that conclusion of the self-destructiveness um but more importantly is that did you have a okay this is how I need to reconcile this and work through it and and balance enough chaos but it's strategic enough to where it's not gonna [ __ ] kill me so self-destructive like I was somewhat aware of it um but it took over time me realizing that I was self-destructive but I Justified self-destruction as growth which the [ __ ] up part is it is that's exactly that's exactly how I did it for so long I'm like dude discomfort is growth the more I self-destruct the more [ __ ] up [ __ ] I survive the more I grow and and it's true but at a cost but at a cost and so then I had to at a certain point go okay why do I keep self-destructing why do I destroy all my relationships why do I do why do I do all this why do I push everyone away why why why why why and eventually it was through Warrior's Heart really through the therapist there that it's because fundamentally I didn't believe I deserved it and I was destructing things I was destroying things that I subconsciously didn't feel I deserved how do you get past that then like what that's a great question um it's I mean obviously but but the biggest part is [ __ ] recognizing that that's the problem which took me years and years and years and and I hope anyone watching or listening to this you know if the faster that you realize that that's the problem man I it took me way too long and um but once you realize that's the problem um the the solutions are much easier than the pro than recognizing that that's the problem so a solution is simple as you know um and we were just talking about it the other day but actually you and I were talking about earlier buying yourself nice things yeah that is a subconscious way of saying I deserve this and I'm not saying spend money you know previously or or and it's not money is going to give you value or worth but subconsciously treating yourself well and this could be buying things for yourself this could just be treating yourself well in general don't eat shitty food don't freaking you know get two hours of sleep a night treat yourself well and the better that you treat yourself the more subconsciously you will feel that you deserve it yeah you know Bruce Lee himself has a quote of of saying and don't talk negative about it never talk negative people yourself even as a joke and I and I think I mean yeah Bruce Lee was a martial artist but what he really was was a philosopher for sure it was a [ __ ] smart dude um and you know I think about that all the time it's absolutely true and and so I've had to continuously it's it's the way I say it is consciously consciously there's a lot of things I know do I know I'm worth it yeah I know that but subconsciously have I accepted it no no so there's a lot of things you know but if you really dig deep enough you'll realize you know them but you haven't accepted them and doing the little things every day on on just telling yourself your work worth it uh you know doing actions treating yourself well you know not taking any [ __ ] from other people all those different things contribute on a daily basis to your subconscious accepting that you're good enough learning to say no to things you don't want to do exactly no exactly that's awesome man um well [ __ ] hey man I I gotta tell you it's been a really really enjoyable uh podcast I can appreciate or thank you enough for coming no thanks for having me is there anything else you want to talk about I guess the biggest thing I'm curious of is is what's next for you do you know um got a lot of product development stuff I'm working on um as far as the show um I don't mind saying it yeah I legitimately don't know if there'll be another season um if there is you know um you know I'll hopefully be a part of it in some way it's you know there's a I haven't mentioned this yet but you know there's a big weight to that because um early on on the show I think season two you know is getting like Instagram messages from kids you know watching the show and being like Oh it's motivated me to join and I was like oh [ __ ] yeah like that was a show called Tour of Duty for me in the 80s you know and and I was like oh my God this this is some kids Tour of Duty yeah and on that um looked as just fast dropping out of helicopters look cool yeah it does is it cool yeah it's cool so I feel a responsibility with the show to yeah we're gonna show the cool stuff and it is cool but if you watch the show what it really is about on on over time is the self-destructiveness that this job has on these characters lives yeah and I feel that's we'll show the cool stuff but at the end of the day we're also making a very honest portrayal of what that life will do to you yeah and it will as you know a little true true any anybody and everybody up and spit them right the [ __ ] out and you know and but the worst case is you and I both knowing that would still join oh yeah because that's just what we you know I watched First Blood and I was like oh I want PTSD I want to get chased by the cops yeah like oh I want to fight the cop at the end you know but by the way I got to mention this because this is fascinating as written in the book as written in the script and as filmed in the movie Brian did anyhee's character is a Korean War veteran really edit it out dude if you watch it again it'll make so much more sense to you wow he's a Korean War veteran the reason he tells Rambo to get out is because he knows the [ __ ] he's going to go through because he went through it and he's saying I don't want you to go through that [ __ ] in my town no [ __ ] that's why he has to fight him at the end but that's also when he finds out Rambo's got a medal of honor he gets pissed off because Rambo is the veteran he wasn't yeah professional jealousy isn't that crazy though like and wild they they cut it it makes it so much better if they cut that out just for time and whatever but dude there's it puts it all together it changes everything when you re-watch the movie it'll it makes a lot more sense uh that didn't his character is a Korean War and his whole thing too is oh yeah they're spitting on you well well they forgot about my War at least they're acknowledging you yeah there's all this stuff anyways I'm gonna have to re-watch it now dude it'll you'll see it it's it's obviously there that's that's awesome yeah uh fascinating uh story in life you've lived and again I can't thank you for yeah thanks for coming thank you enough for coming so I hope you guys enjoyed it uh to me uh it's one of my favorite episodes uh hands down thank you and uh you know I just I I appreciate your guys's support for for tuning in uh please tune in to uh to his show as well as uh uh Specter uh right is it the uh yeah we'll we'll have some cool stuff coming out yeah down the pipe you can be expecting that but uh at any rate I just uh I do want to um just continue to say thank you to all the listeners for uh tuning in show after show if if not for your support we wouldn't be able to bring amazing guests like Tyler on so I think yeah thanks for you guys I hope you have a good holiday season Merry Christmas sing Happy Birthday to Jesus or whatever it is that that you get behind and uh until next time this is mic drop thank you [Music]

Channel: Mike Ritland

Views: 1,120,434

Keywords: tyler grey, actor, producer, director, cbs, seal team, david boreanaz, army, spec ops, buds, devgru, suicide squad, warriors heart, trent sawyer, hollywood, california, john wick, taran tactical, crow, rust, bakersfield, valley fever, fort lewis, cqb, ag, gunner, ranger school, afghanistan, kandahar, qrf, lone survivor, infantry, badwater, hvt, fallujah, depression, ptsd, zarqawi, rambo, sylvester stallone, seal, iraq, green beret, delta force, operator, classified, combat, military, footage, disabled, handicap

Id: 8vG-xxdAbxk

Length: 185min 3sec (11103 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 11 2022