Dead Famous_ Melbourne Gangland War

[Music] [Music] thank you [Music] it's Hannibal like this stuff Mike don't they it's a jail inside a jail the moment he goes out of that trail anyway he's Shackled and handcuffed it's easy to forget the threats that they faced it's easy to forget the sort of fear and intimidation and other tactics that were used against them I didn't doubt our capacity to crack it and get on top of it but I was worried that we may have run out of time you're going to be charged this afternoon with two cans of making threats to kill I think they might have been using his own product a bit and people were getting a museum the paranoia was sitting in and people are getting killed for nothing you know it's just a waste of life you know I put my hand over my head I thought this boss is going to come along and finish me off and you're answering your question yeah it would have been a Target [Music] foreign the culture of the underworld has certainly changed over the last 20 years once upon a time it was the hard men who had the respect now it's the money man [Music] the big difference is drugs the people who make the money are those behind the drugs and with that they can hire The Hit Men to do their dirty work for them John Sylvester I've reported on Australian crime for 30 years when Fairfax Deputy editor Andrew Rule and I began writing the underbelly books we had no idea they would become best sellers and inspire a television drama this is the true story behind that Gangland War of course these drug pushers didn't invent Gangland violence in Melbourne they'd always win Gangland violence in Melbourne the painters and Dockers knew all about it in fact I think the painters and Dockers might have buried more people back in the 60s and 70s than we saw killed in this latest Gangland War but the difference was the old timers did it quietly they did it secretly they got rid of the bodies they buried them deep or they dropped them out in the bay wrapped in Chains underworld War of those days was about money and about honor you had to be able to fight to get anywhere in the criminal world you had to be able to [ __ ] fight and Along Came drugs and you didn't have to be able to fight anymore I mean the village idiots and town mice were becoming uh were becoming drug lords these people got more colors these people started to behave like the the South American gangsters and the uh the Miami gangsters I saw on television they started to shoot each other in front of families they started to involve families and they left the bodies scattered around the streets and some of them even made the great mistake of seeking publicity obviously it was about business some personal animosity but I guess also we've got some responsibility to a certain extent in that we let them so as I say I'm not sure it was a conscious decision I think it was just something that evolved over time and and then it just became the way um payback started to happen it became a way of doing business by the mid 90s I'd been reporting crime on and off for nearly 20 years but I have to say I've never seen anything like the rise of the drug trade at that period because it split up out of the traditional areas of heroin imported by the Vietnamese and Chinese the marijuana distributed largely by the Italian gangs out of Griffith and Mildura and shepparton and the speed are distributed by the bikies it started to grow in other ways too because they were getting so-called party drugs they were getting ecstasy and other designer drugs which were being produced by a new breed of crook and it was being sold to a new breed of buyer thank you Carl Williams is the perfect example of how drugs made bit pliers into major players seemingly overnight Carl was a supermarket showstagger and not a particularly good one but along the way he learned that there was more money in drugs but the other group heavily involved was what became known as the Carlton crew this was a group of let's call them colorful identities who were Loosely connected they weren't a gang as such they worked together they were friends but they had their own interests it was Graham kinabra for example Graham kinabra was a former safe broker he was an elder Statesman Mario kondello a former lawyer who dreamed at one stage of being a Crime Boss and a high court judge I feel interesting combination he was Mikado a colorful identity involved originally in illegal gambling and much later in mediation and there was Louis Moran an old-school crook drawn into drugs through his son Jason and stepson mark they were the New Kids on the Block there was of course at one stage Alphonse can katana who was murdered he wanted to be a Godfather but he was Notorious he was violent and he was charismatic oh he was an egotistical character he wanted me to team up with him and join up with him but that would have meant wearing a suit and hanging around Johnny's green room and going yourself once no wealth wants three bags full elephants you know the tour the doors come open elephants these boys are there and they're kicking their heads in I just remember I might be bum and I got up and I started punching and shut my eyes and I'm punching him back out the door and I've opened my eyes and I'm punch in the bounces elephants has vanished and I said [ __ ] elephants you know the police case was quite simple Jason Moran was driven to Alfonso's house for a discussion during that discussion Jason Moran produced a firearm and shot Alphonse dead crime Canaveral was present and he ran out of the place unable of course to help police with their inquiries those close to Jason it's where he wasn't involved the police are adamant he pulled the trigger the amount of money that can be made through illegal pills and powders biggest belief with a bit of help and a bit of knowledge they started to realize that they could produce ecstasy and pseudo ecstasy in pill form Melbourne had always had a strong strong market for amphetamines but this was a new market young people who would gobble these things up at the weekend so was endless but at the same time the Victoria Police made a huge mistake with its Drug Squad The Drug Squad was planned to be a super squad of up to 200 people usually you would move on out of an eruption-prone area like that after two or three years but it started to let people stay for many many years which increased the risk of corruption he was by the late 90s a very messy setup with a lot of people making a lot of money and some of those people making money happen to be police one of the methods that the police were using was called controlled deliveries and what they were doing was that they were buying chemicals at a wholesale rate and then by using informers selling them at the black market rate and were following them in the bid to get to the Mr Biggs either using them as bait to catch Cooks allegedly to know that they were actually the biggest customer for Sigma the wholesale drug manufacturers they were the biggest customer Magnus it was inevitable that it would come to a bad end because that Drug Squad wasn't up to handling the pressure put on it and in the end they collapsed under that pressure [Music] there is no such thing as a war on drug trafficking it was lost if there ever was one a long long time ago and whilst the people in the drug field have the such vast sums of money at their disposal then I'm afraid corruption will continue when you talk about corruption police have many many defensive methods and they just avoid ever dealing and never confronting it because when you're chasing a crook it's not personal he's a two-dimensional object but when you're chasing a policeman who's a crook he's one of you even if he's bad he's like the bad relative very very uncomfortable the sense of betrayal that's felt in an office when that happens and I've been in that circumstance it's unbelievable you just have people walking in the days you have people in tears and quite frankly some of them never ever recover from it and they never get back to work in those areas again these people tend to live their life like they're out of a Hollywood movie but they didn't actually have the the brains or the decency to actually start the war in that style [Music] they behaved in the way that they've watched on television I had a meeting with somebody connected with the Carlton crew and during it I realized he was doing Marlon Brando out of The Godfather and that's the trouble with many of the gangsters is they they learned it all they thought The Sopranos was a documentary the funny thing is they don't realize it's called the underwater yes outside there's not a lot that's nice glamorous exciting about the way they lead their lives and I think it's unfortunate that some of them have almost taken on Celebrity Status some people think because you're looking after a Crooks you're a crook yourself I mean you you've got to deal with all those things the culture now it's more difficult to speak with younger members of the police force because of perhaps a distrust you're going to have a feel for this uh to work in the Dustbin of life Carl Williams he really looked like the kid next door if the Kid Next Door had a baby face and weighed about 17 Stone and lived on nothing but fast food and soft drink Kyle loved fast money he loved fast women and where he came from there's only one way to pay for it and it was with selling drugs and it wasn't long before Carl was a bit of help from his father George who was really just a petty crook got hold of a pill press and started to make a lot of pills and selling them into nightclubs and of course I made the big mistake of undercutting some very dangerous people who are in that line of trade the Moran Brothers now these three men knew each other but they weren't friends they had worked together but they still didn't like each other Carl Williams had married Roberta and Roberta was the former wife of a good friend of the Moran so they weren't happy with him over that secondly Carl was selling his drugs much cheaper than the morans they didn't like that there was also a dispute over the ownership of a pool press the morants believed it should be theirs Carl Williams had possession of it said it was his and lastly Carl Williams had actually done a pill press job for the morans but he hadn't used enough binding material so the pills were falling apart and the Marines couldn't sell it [Music] the date was October 13 1999. it was a tiny little Park in Gladstone Park no bigger than two Suburban blocks totally open houses on three sides nothing else and that was where there was going to be a meeting between Carl Williams and Jason Moran and Mark Moran so there's an argument over pills and over money uh if Carl thought he'd be safe he was wrong because Jason Moran pulled out a small pistol a 22 Derringer his house when described but certainly a small pistol and he threatened Carl Williams with it and his brother Mark said shoot him in the head shoot him in the head was that effect [Music] Jason said something like well if I shoot him dead how are we ever going to get our money back and um he shot him in the belly instead and that is actually how the underworld Gore proper the the hot end of the under mobile began because had they killed Carl Williams that day none of this would have happened there would have been no underworld War Jason shot bloody Kyle in the guts Mark was right he should have killed him he should have Bloody killed him that was his great mistake if he'd killed Carl when he was then it'd just be another dead gangster people would have thought it was the morants but it wouldn't have gone anywhere but they let him get up he went home his mum had baked him a cake because it was his birthday it was his 29th birthday on that very day but a shot in the stomach tends to dull the appetite [Music] he was motivated for Revenge he ran off and made a lot of money and he spent a lot of that money making sure he got his revenge on the Moran Brothers [Music] but what happened and consistently happened over the next few years was a bizarre set of circumstances which made all the planets line up so that we had this unprecedented War count got out of Hospital and he must have been a workaholic because he was straight back into making drugs the local police at Broad Meadows were doing a very minor fraud case involving credit cards they went out to a Housing Commission property and they heard this crunching of the machine it sounds like the Ford factory rally I realized exactly what was going on after Dory and there was the purpose going a million miles now let's look upstairs there's Carl Williams flying in bed with the shade diagram they put it back he's wearing a red Mambo shirt he's fully dressed split infinitely he's charged and that job was worth 20 million dollars so he goes into jail but while in jail he makes a crook that we can only refer to as the runner and he offers that crook a hundred thousand dollars to kill Jason Moran yeah the runner who's a man who did armed robberies the career criminal and been a gunman for two decades his trick was to park his car his getaway car a long way from the bank or whatever his Target was he'd do the job and then he'd run hence the nickname anyway he doesn't blink an eye and he just goes yep no worries I'll do that when I get out so he's got he said man so what we had we had Carl Williams and we had the morans all facing different drug charges but remember you've got corruption charges against The Drug Squad as well and quite rightly it was decided that the corruption charges against the police had to be dealt with first because these detectives were the star Witnesses in the drug cases what will in fact emerge is that there was a fairly higher level of corruption that particular individuals some of whom are still waiting trial I shouldn't mention their names but who were undoubtedly paying off police for protection and information uh there's a need to be a little bit cautious here because there are some current matters before the court where this whole issue May well be Central um to those matters um but I think it's now a matter of record that corruption police corruption was definitely a factor in allowing some of those people to get to the position they got to and then assisting them to remain there [Music] but what happens then is that Carl's bailed and around that time in that very same week Jason is jailed for a series of assaults in a King Street nightclub which left several people including one woman badly injured so like ships in the night they pass Carl's out but Jason's in Carl decides at this time that it's probably best if he goes after Mark Moran who's isolated without Chase in there first off mad Richard miladovich is shot dead it's believed that he was probably Mark Moran's mind so Moran's exposed now these crooks are often considered to be cool and calm and calculating well they're not they're idiots Mark Moran has good Security on his house and in his business you'd want it but he Parks his car outside in the street perfect spot for Carl Williams in the dark the ambushes mark Moran and shooting Mark Moran is shot dead outside his luxury 1.3 million dollar home in aberfeldy Carl Williams is probably involved in up to 10 murders but this is the only one where he pulls the trigger that was the best of the lot I love Mark entirely different position Mark was a lot harder than Jason a lot of her Jason was a [ __ ] compared to man Jason I can remember him crying on my shoulder at least four or five times Bernie I've killed Mars Mark Moran into an unemployed pastry chef where does he get the money that's the clear message having covered this for so long is that people want to know how come these people had so much money and no one was locking them up why wasn't the tax department going through them good point the morants have a council of all they look at the potential list of enemies which is not short Carl Williams name is on it but he's not by any means the first name on the list they still think of him as like their puppy dog that they've hit with a rolled up newspaper and that he'd cower away so they didn't think he'd have the dash to do what he did [Music] Jason Moran gets out the parole board aware of the risks to him actually let him go overseas which is highly unusual Jason Moran is given a second chance he can take his family he can live overseas he can live a relatively normal life but like many of them he was in love with being a gangster a mob Star as long as the word star was there they were happy so he came back even though he had to know that there was a great risk to his life the runner by this stage is out he's teamed up with Carl Williams he's prepared to do the job again we refer to these Hitmen as cool and calm most of them are totally stupid [Music] and changing the dressing is pretty good out of those crooks are I always said listen I'll live longer than you Jason I said it to him two weeks before he died meeting up here in Smith Street Collingwood and I was wearing a coat like this and I walked up and shook his hand he backed off I knew he was carrying a gun I wasn't carrying a gun but he thought I was carrying a gun and he gave me a shady handshake and I said you don't want to pull up Jason I said I saw them I'm going to live longer than you he said we'll see about that I think we all realized how low the crooks would go when they shot Jason Moran and Patty Barbaro in a van at a little kid's footy match out of essendon a gunman ran up and he shot the two men in the front seat of the van while the little kids were in the back so close that they were actually spattered with blood it was a terrible crime foreign [Music] in front of the kids I think everybody all Australians realize just how evil they were [Music] mark my name is Q2 who were in the house when their dad was killed and then are in that van with their uncles killed yeah and Pasquale Barbara I was just sitting there I mean like who killed him didn't even know him in the car never deal with this as to think some sort of romantic battle between two sides it's not it's about killing people it's about ambushing people it's the most awful hideous traumatizing saying for strangers to see a body that's been mutilated by a gunshot what it would be like for kids just Beggars for life there was blood everywhere take the bigger picture you've got a lot of kids there and parents and what would have happened when the runner ran if a parent had tried to grab him well we know what the runner would have done [Music] collateral damage everywhere did you throw the guns down or one of them did if I met you [Music] the runner gets away goes down to St Kilda where he meets Carl Williams and tells him I've done the job Carl Williams full of gratitude opens his pocket and produces an envelope with two and a half thousand dollars that's all he got he was promised a hundred thousand and he got two thousand five hundred dollars didn't stop him going out that night having a lovely meal with his family didn't seem to worry him about the fact that he killed two people earlier in the day [Music] I don't think any any others expected of the car because he was just a as he's been portrayed the fat boy that was a hangar on her was doing his best to learn a trade that uh eventually majored in but that's the initial suspect no I think he pushed it a bit too far and I think he might have been using his own product a bit and people were getting a museum the paranoia was sitting in and people looking for business you know saying kill this one kill that one and of course there's all sorts of money being frowner there was no Carlton Crew That's just all been a myth it's uh you know it's not true and it's just been invented just to sort of sell papers and and make good television I guess [Music] people tie you together unfortunately the media do that they're tired of everything I would I think there was a deaf noticing in from Iran that sort of put me with the rest of them there and and they tie you into it all and yeah answering your question yeah I would have been a Target the runner came from a life of crime uh his father I think was basically insane this is the primary school kid who came home one day to find dad was actually stabbing mum so that wouldn't help you spent much more of his life in prison than out well I always say if you do more than five years you'd lose your life I mean I don't think you can mentally recover from more than five years in prison [Music] the changes in the drug World meant that some Crooks just came from nowhere and became big players seemingly overnight Andrew veneman was one of them he was just known out in his suburb there's a bit of a hothead but within the same months he became a major player to be responsible for several looking back on it it seemed that the police didn't really take a lot of notice of what was going on until the body started to hit the paper the public became concerned the media made a splash of it and suddenly the police command realized that they had a problem and that problem had got away from them it was then they realized that they had to make up for lost time that they didn't have the criminal intelligence stored up about these people [Music] and one senior policeman did say that he feared that all the answers to the underworld War were out there with his own members what I'm about to say in no way reflects on the troops because I think they were working hard and doing their best in a pretty difficult situation but I think at a higher level we dropped the ball in a couple of ways one is we didn't actually recognize what we were dealing with and deal with it in a joined up way which is what we subsequently did and clearly our intelligence wasn't up to speed up until this point they've been chasing after the event after a crime they had refused point blank to accept that there was an underworld War [Music] they had individual homicide Crews looking at individual murders and not connecting them up everyone had a piece of the jigsaw but no one would actually put it on the table that's where piranha came in by gathering it so what they did they actually for once they allocated the Manpower and the money and the time and the resources and my resources I mean things like wiretaps phone taps and listing devices just to nail down the prime movers [Music] and they started they were able to track some calls and through that they started to link in to Associates of car winds and of the runner now what the police did and how they did it I don't know but they bolted in front of the crooks for the first time putting them into a position where quite legitimately we could put a lot of pressure on them to think about what they wanted to do and get them into a position ultimately where they rolled and would agree to cooperate give us the information that then allowed us to further develop the picture fill in some of the missing pieces and then go again I had good psychological advantage in this way don't they you know it's the one thing they can offer somebody's doing life is you're never going to get outside that cell again unless you come out for a week with us and talk to us right it's a great incentive the one thing that they can do is break the boredom [Music] never lost a client who's rolled over sure as in being shot or the demise in another way yeah yeah anyone in particular no one that I want to know so while the shootings continued they started to profile the crooks who was Andrew miniman who was Carl Williams how were they connected [Music] I'm at a loss to understand why it went on for as long as it did without somebody without the police being able to find out from an Informer whoever else it was but for example Andrew vinnyman had killed six seven or eight people whatever it was somehow police found the clean car that the runner would use in another job and they put a tracking device and a listening device in it so they were in front the crooks come and get it hop in it drive away and the brake light starts flickering the crooks stop and they find the tracking device in the car the job's blind we'll say you would think but what happens is they drive to Carl Williams who by this stage to save full of himself he refers to himself as the premier because I run this state so at this point they show the listening device the car and Carl goes I don't care we're doing the job what place don't know is what is the job the job is to kill a fellow by the name of Michael Marshall lives in a double story house in South yarra Michael Marshall is a hot dog seller so it doesn't take too much to work out what else he was selling on the day which was a Saturday the tracking device or the electronics drop out right at the wrong moment and they're a bit like a mobile phone so they don't know what's going on by the time it's back on the runners out of the car going and the next thing they start getting calls from triple zero Michael Marshall has been shot dead next to his young son the runner has run up it was raining he fires one shot slips on his backside when he does it gets up and keep shooting until he kills him the runner hits home guitar he's got to know he's hot and what does he do he picks up the phone and he Rings Carl and he says you know that horse you liked it was scratched well it's probably the worst cat in the world and it's picked up on a listening device he's arrested as his car wins [Music] I provided you with advice and respect you uh manner in which you should conduct yourself in the interview today yeah just on our chest and one advisors they provided with you an uncommon record of interview or remain mutant but with him starts to realize they've got the runner cult so he tries to distance himself all of a sudden Carl's being looked after by a QC the runners on legal aid Carl wants a separate trial the runner says to him we'll look at least be decent and look after my old mum can you give us some money he sent a 10 grand car Witnesses making a hundred thousand dollars a month in his prime 's big mistake was shortchanging the runner he had promised him a hundred thousand dollars for killing Jason Morant he paid him two and a half thousand on several occasions he was dotted and he was entered it and we'll never know but the likelihood is that if Guy Williams kept his promise so would have the runner very very stupid move to shortchange a hitman these people have been allowed to just continue on with their trade and get bail continually get bail continually offend continually Drive their organizations and influencer organizations while they're out on bar I mean how can you place something where you're locking people up and they're going through the revolving door and thumbing their nose at you slowly many of those connected with the morans were hunted down and shot dead Graeme Canberra old school killed outside his house in queue he turned up at home and the hit team was waiting Graham got one shot off but it wasn't enough that was the murder that really really affected McKenna that wasn't business it was personal Carl Williams was an unlikely looking gangster he is a bloke with a ready smile it was difficult to sit and talk to him knowing what he'd done after Graham kennebra was murdered I sat with him world's worst coffee shop and he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt and he sat with his back to the road and I wanted to actually say to him look you know in gangster 101 you don't do that you've got to wear a designer suit and sit and scale of it but that was part of his not his disguise but probably put a lot of people off in that you looked at him and you thought I don't see him as the sword who can organize all those hits car wins what about him you had a meeting with Carl when he was trying to sort it out at one stage well I wasn't trying to sort it out I was trying to find out he killed Grant and uh until that point you know it had nothing to do with me um you know it was a war over him getting shot by Jason and whatever happened there was their business nothing to do with me um but once they killed Graham yeah you know it involved me then and uh yeah I was making active uh moods to find out who was behind it and and that was a reason for the meeting with Carl and he you know denied it strenuously he said he he respected Graeme he never knew him he had nothing to do with it um I don't know about that I think he did police warned Louis Moran that he was likely to be on The Hit List and they urged him to be less predictable in his movements but Lewis didn't listen we didn't really care we thought we were all-time gangsters and and took no notice of the up and camera so to speak whereas we should have learned and we got death threats every year every every week wherever we were drinking and usually Carl on the phone screaming and shouting both the The Drug Squad and piranha I'm about fairly down on us more so The Drug Squad because if we were pinched with a young being on bail we would have gone straight back unremand it was a game deadly musical chairs and every time the music stopped yeah one of them got shot [Music] [Applause] certainly Andrew beneman idolize McGarry at one point conventional wisdom is that he started to work for the Carlton crew doing jobs for them then there was a bashing in lygon Street which left a man in hospital and around that time betterman appeared to change sides and became close and personal with Carl Williams Carl Williams wanted him to deliver Jason Moran to be killed and venomen never did so even though Williams always said venomen was his closest friend in reality he didn't trust him he wasn't actually sure that if he changed sides once he wouldn't change again towards the end Williams would never meet venomen on his own frightened of an ambush beneman was becoming increasingly isolated and in that world you need all the friends you can get another all right you take care of yourself thanks very much buddy thank you everybody [Music] still got to come and see I hadn't seen him for a couple of months he was running with the other side there and uh and I was just curious what he wanted so I ring him on this day and uh he rocked up down and he was the one that actually uh suggested we go at the back and have a quiet chat and uh and that's when it all took place you know I was telling that the rumors were still right that uh that he had something to do with Graham and uh and uh he said motor wouldn't do that too you're a friend of mine and mostly what's funny is say that PK and uh and Deborah were your friends do and you killed them and uh anyway we're getting a little bit of a heated argument I just said I'm look you can't be trusted and I don't want you in my company in our company simple as that and the next minute just stepped back and produced again and then we had a struggle and uh one nearly in the head and uh fortunately uh he got shot I never he died and uh that was the other [Music] 14 months I spent in my accountable Lecter walked up and Shackled like a dub but anyway when the jury came back he sat there and he addressed his family and he said we're going to hear the most important words of our life there'll either be one word or two guilty or not guilty the jury returned they looked at gato which is always a good sign and they announced not guilty [Music] thank God for the jury system Mikado told the jury that he was glad he'd shot Benji because he said if I didn't do it he was going to kill me and he said if it wasn't if it wasn't me I would have been given the case to the city for doing it Andrew veneman at the time was under constant police exposure and it was said that he'd stop routinely carrying a firearm [Music] but mcgetto's version of events was that he had a gun on this occasion we'll never know what Panama had to say about it [Music] police suspect that Andrew veneerman was present during at least seven murders and probably the trigger man in nearly all of them for Lewis Moran it was always going to be a case of when and where it was March 31 2004. and it was the Brunswick Club over a cool beer I turned around to pick up the change off the bar we were going and I said let's get out of here Lewis I had a bad feeling that night this Black Bush through Alibi May aside put a shot into Lewis's gone and pushed him towards the passageway and uh lost he did that oh he had the shutter enemy turned around and smiled at me and you can see underneath these felicana gave me a good look then are you ran towards the front door as I'm going towards the front door I see this uh other black point in the shooter it made it was going to hit me right in the head and span around tried to kick him he shot me with a yeah nine mil Hydra shot I put my hand over my head I thought this bus was going to come along and finish me off which is what you normally expect anyway that must have had me on the stretchy bar then and I said um my mate is he is he off and I said yeah he's dead he's dead before he hit the ground and then finally Mario kondello killed when he returned home to make sure he made these curfew for bail that there is at least one Hitman waiting for him [Music] piranha are desperately trying to roll over key players connected with Carl Williams to get evidence against him they're having some success they don't even bother going near the runner because he's so old school he's never spoken to police ever all of a sudden and there's a letter that arrives at the director of public prosecutions office it's a letter from the runner saying you better come and see me members of piranha go out grabbing take him out to a secret location keep him for three weeks or he makes statement after statement after statement at the end of it they say what he want he says oh I'd kill for a vanilla slice the Code of Silence a lot of rubbish as far as I'm concerned every one of them 90 of the people will cut a deal when it's their neck that's in the Noose we were doing deals with Shooters but quite rightly the police in the direct Republic prosecution said there is a higher group that we want to get they're the ones who gave the instructions who paid to have these jobs done so a deal was done for the runner if he is lucky he won't die in jail he'll leave Joe as an old man but there is light at the end of the tunnel is it your intention to remind you for the reminder [Music] the murders of Terry and Christine Hodson was the low point of this whole Gangland War previously people thought it was Crooks killing Crooks Terry Hodson was the police Informer he's killed before he can give evidence in a police corruption case the case collapses if it is true what Petra say that these events are linked well you're killing a freaking star witness you might as well go and kill a judge [Music] labor already frightened they had guard dogs but they let someone they knew into their house and their reward for that was to be made to kneel down on their own kitchen floor and both of them were shot dead Christine was shot dead merely for the fact that she was there and she would have known the shooter's face to kill Terry Hodson who was really an attack on the whole criminal justice system to kill a witness is to attack the system itself it was no longer Crooks just killing Crooks it was an attack on all of us when I did the planning for the phase of piranha that I ran part of that planning was corruption I told my people we you will encounter serious corruption during the course's investigation I didn't know what it was going to be but I knew we would uncover it because it's endemic to organize crime organized crime does not exist without some form of corruption [Music] Tom was running out for Carl if all the trials went ahead and he was found guilty he was certainly going to be sentenced to life with no minimum his lawyers wanted him to do a deal so he could get a minimum sentence but he kept playing games until February of 2007. virtually just before a jury was impaneled he made noises finally that he would do a deal Carl Williams was escorted into the court he needed to formally plead guilty to three murders if a deal was to be done during the delay Carl's parents George and Barbara were allowed into the court proper and while George remained silent Barbara begged her son not to plead guilty and then the court was convened everyone held their breath and then Carl Williams pleaded guilty to three murders Jason Moran Louis Moran and small-time drug dealer mark Marnier [Music] [Applause] the deal Williams wanted was 33 years as a minimum that would mean he could get out when he was 69. to do that he needed to cooperate with the authorities so Carl got up and he made a self-serving and clearly bogus statement it was designed to show his colleagues that he hadn't rolled over on them and it was designed to actually damage prosecution witnesses in upcoming cases he sat down with a smile but the judge she wasn't smiling at all and just as king made comments about the clearly disingenuous nature of the statement it showed that he hadn't reformed at all so instead of getting 33 years as a minimum he got 35. Williams was filthy and tried to make a statement from the court but Justice King simply looked and said take the prisoner away and that was the last moment that Williams was seen is almost a free man [Music] now police would like to say we've learned from our mistakes well let's wait let's wait and see in five or ten years whether that will still exists the challenge for us is to manage organize crime and to keep it at a level that's acceptable to the community that's what we've got to do but to pretend that somehow we're going to make it go away or disappear I think it's just we're just kidding ourselves [Music] of that era there were 33 underworld deaths 17 of those were Loosely connected in some of the cases they were innocent victims people not connected not gangsters but Witnesses or people who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time Paul Williams says he can look in the mirror and what he sees looking back as a soldier he's just got it so wrong he said he never shot any innocent people or had them shot Carl Williams in one regard became a serial killer in that he wouldn't stop until he was caught you begin to believe your own [ __ ] I suppose some of them did that's for sure I mean Carl Williams refer to himself as the premier because he said I run this state correct he lost the election I got 35 years yeah I mean it's all it's a long time in office [Laughter] so this is not based on Greed it's based on the drug Market there's no honor and what went on and even now if Carl wants to glorify what he did well if that gets him through the night in maximum security good luck to him [Music] because he won't see his daughter's 16th birthday her 18th birthday the 21st if he's lucky he'll leave jail an old hunched over desperately saved me if he's lucky [Music] thank you join us tomorrow as time is running out in the Intriguing case that has everyone guessing will new evidence be uncovered to point to the prime suspect don't miss the gripping new series Hunter 8 30 tomorrow night on ABC one thank you [Music] foreign thank you

Channel: Timothy Cahalan

Views: 454,247

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Id: fzYOWXDjZlM

Length: 54min 13sec (3253 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 15 2017