Dead Famous: (Melbourne's Underworld War) Carl Williams

[Music] [Music] [Music] it's Hannibal Lecter stuff Mike I mean it's a jail inside of jail the moment he goes out of that jail anyway he's shackled and and handcuffed it's easy to forget the threats that they faced it's easy to forget the sort of fear and intimidation and other tactics that were used against them I didn't doubt our capacity to crack it and get on top of it but I was worried that we'd may have run out of time you're gonna be charged this afternoon with two counts of making threats to kill I think he might have been using his own product a bit and people were getting in his Ian a paranoia was setting in and people getting killed for nothing you know it's just a waste of life and I put my hand over my head that's what this bastards gonna come along and finish me off and yeah answering your question here would have been a [ __ ] autumn [Music] the culture of the underworld has certainly changed over the last 20 years [Music] once upon a time it was the hard men who had the respect now it's the money men [Music] the big difference is drugs the people who make the money are those behind the drugs with that they can hire their hit men to do their dirty work for them [Music] my name's John Sylvester I've reported on Australian crime for 30 years when Fairfax deputy editor Andrew rule and I began writing the underbelly books we had no idea they would become bestsellers and inspire a television drama this is the true story behind that gangland war of course these drug pushers didn't invent gangland violence in Melbourne they'd always been gangland violence in Melbourne the painters and Dockers knew all about it in fact I think the painters and aqus might have buried more people back in the 60s and 70s then we saw killed in this latest game way more but the difference was the old-timers did it quietly they did it secretly they got rid of the body so buried them deep or they dropped them out in the bay wrapped in chains the underworld war of those days was about money and about honor you had to be able to fight to get it anywhere in the criminal world you had to be able to [ __ ] fight and along came drugs and you didn't have to be able to fight anymore I mean the village idiots and town mice were becoming a were becoming drug lords these people got more callous these people said that behave like the the South American gangsters and the Miami gangsters I saw on television they started to shoot each other in front of families they start to involve families and they left the bodies scattered around the streets and some of them they even made the great mistake of seeking publicity obviously it was about business some personal animosity but I guess also we've got some responsibilities that you to a certain extending that we let them so as I said I'm not sure as a conscious decision I think it was just something that evolved over time and and then it just became the way payback started to happen it became a way of doing business by the mid nineties I'd been reporting crime on and off for nearly 20 years but I have to say I've never seen anything like the rise of the drug trade at that period because it split up out of the traditional areas of heroin imported by the Vietnamese and Chinese the marijuana distributed largely by the Italian gangs out of Griffith and Mildura and Shepperton and the speed distributed by the barkis it started to grow in other ways too because they were getting so-called party drugs are getting ecstasy and other designer drugs which have been produced by a new breed of crook and that was being sold to a new breed of buyer car Williams is the perfect example of how it drugs made bit pliers in a major pliers seemingly overnight Carl was a supermarket shelf stacker and not a particularly good one but along the way he learned that there was more money in drugs but the other group heavily involved was what became known as the Carlton crew this was a group of let's call them colorful identities who were loosely connected eyewear did gang as such they worked together there were friends but they had their own interests it was Graham King Abra for example ramekin aburrá was a former safe-breaker he was an elder statesman Mario Candela a former lawyer who dreamed at one stage of being a crime boss and a high court judge a fairly interesting combination there was meketa a colorful identity involved originally in illegal gambling and much later in mediation and there was Lewis Moran an old school crook drawn into drugs through his son Jason and stepson mark they were the new kids on the block there was of course at one stage Alphonse can katana who was murdered he wanted to be a godfather but he was notorious he was violent and he was charismatic oh he was an egotistical character he wanted me to team up with him and join up with him but that would have meant we're in a suit and hanging around Johnny's greenroom and going here cellphones no elephants three bags full of phones you know he's thinking that all the doors come open elephant's these boys are they're not kicking me hidden I just remember what be bummed that I got up and started punching and shot me I was and I'm punching him back at the door when I bite me or not punching the bouncers he'll Hans has vanished you know said [ __ ] elephants even and the police case was quite simple choice on Moran was driven to Alphonsus house for a discussion during that discussion Jason Moran produced a firearm and shot Alphonse dead crime Kenny Burrell was present and he ran out of the place unable of course to help police with their inquiries those close to Jason swear he wasn't involved the police are adamant he pulled the trigger [Music] the amount of money that can be made through illegal pills and powders beggars belief with a bit of help and a bit of knowledge they started to realize that they could produce ecstasy and pseudo ecstasy in pill form Melvin had always had a strong strong market friend betta means but this was a new market young people who would gobble these things up at the weekend so it was endless at the same time the Victoria police made a huge mistake with its drug squad the drug squad was planned to be a super squad of up to 200 people usually you would move on out of a eruption prone area like that after two or three years but it started to let people stay for many many years which increase the risk of corruption it was by the late 90s a very messy setup with a lot of people making a lot of money and some of those people making money having to be police one of the methods that the police were using was called controlled deliveries and what they were doing was that they were buying chemicals at a wholesale rate and then by using informers selling them at the black market rate and were following them in the bid to get to the mr. BIG's either using them as bait to catch crooks allegedly do you know that there was actually the biggest customer and for Sigma the wholesale drug manufacturers they were the biggest customer in Australia and drugs for the drugs for teenagers it was inevitable that it would come to a bad end because that drug squad wasn't up to handling the pressure put on it and in the end and collapse under that pressure there is no such thing as a war on drug trafficking it was lost if there ever was one a long long time ago and whilst people in the drug field have the such vast sums of money their disposal then I'm afraid corruption will continue when you talk about corruption police have many many defensive methods and they just avoid ever dealing and never confronting it because when you're chasing a crook it's not personal he's a two-dimensional object when you're chasing a policeman he's a crook he's one of you even if he's bad he's like the bad relative very very uncomfortable the sense of betrayal that's felt in an office when that happens now I've been in that circumstance it's unbelievable you just have people walking in their days you have people in tears and quite frankly some of them never ever recover from it and they never get back to work in those areas again these people tend to live their life like they're out of a Hollywood movie but they didn't actually have the the brains of the decency to actually start the war in that style and they behaved in the way that they'd watched on television I had a meeting with somebody connected with the Carleton crew and during it I realized he was doing Marlon Brando Etta The Godfather and that's the trouble with many of the gangsters is they they learned at all they thought the Sopranos was a documentary there's not a lot that's nice glamorous exciting about the way they lead their lives and I think it's unfortunate that some of them have almost taken on celebrity status some people think because you're looking after crooks you're a crook to yourself I mean you you deal with all those things the culture now it's more difficult to speak with younger members of the police force because of perhaps a distrust you're gonna have a feel for this to work in the dustbin of life Carr Williams he really took like that kid next door if the kid next door I had a baby face I'm right about seven million stone and lived on nothing but fast food and soft drink Karl loved fast money he love fast women and where he came from there's only one way to pay for that was with selling drugs and it wasn't long before Karl was bit of help from his father George it was really just a petty crook got hold of a pill press and start to make a lot of pills and selling them in the nightclubs and of course I made the big mistake of undercutting some very dangerous people who are in that line of trade the marine brothers now these three men knew each other but they weren't friends they had worked together but they still didn't like each other Col Williams had married Roberta and Roberta was the former wife of a good friend of the Moran's so they weren't happy with him over there secondly Carr was selling his drugs much cheaper than the Moran's they didn't like that there was also a dispute over the ownership of the pill press the Marines believed it should be their car Williams had possession of it said it was his and lastly car Williams had actually done a tool press job for the Moran's but he hadn't used enough bonding material so the pills were falling apart and the Marines couldn't sell it [Music] and the date was October 13 1999 it was a tiny little park in Gladstone Park no bigger than two suburban blocks totally open houses on three sides nothing else and that was where there was going to be a meeting between Carl Williams and Jason Moran and Mark Moran so there's an argument over pills a lot of money if Carl thought he'd be safe he was wrong because jason rhian pulled out a small pistol or 22 derringer of his house when described but certainly a small pistol and he threatened Carl Williams with it and his brother Mark said shoot him in the head shoot him in the head was that effect [Music] Jason said something like well if I shoot him dead here we ever gonna get their money back and they shot him in the belly instead and that is actually healthy unlivable proper the the hot end of the underworld war became because had they killed Kara Williams that day none of this would have happened there would have been no underworld war Jason shot bloody cow on the guts mark was right he shoulda killed him he should have bloody killed him that was his great mistake if he'd killed Karl when he was then it he'd just be another dead gangster people would have thought it was the Moran's but it wouldn't have gone anywhere but they let him get out he went home his mum would baked him a cake cuz it was his birthday was his 29th birthday on that very day but his shot my stomach tends to dull the appetite he was motivated for revenge he went off made a lot of money and he spent a lot of that money making sure he got his revenge on the marine brothers but what happened and consistently happened over the next few years was a desire set of circumstances which made all the planets line up so that we had this unprecedented war count got out of hospital and he must have been a workaholic because he was straight back into making drugs the local police had Broadmeadows were doing a very minor fraud case involving credit cards they went out to a Housing Commission property and they heard this crunching of a machine sound like the Ford factory really I realized exactly what was going on keep the door and there was the full phrase turning animals now they slip upstairs in his car Williams lying in bed with the sheets a room full of Becky's wearing a red man by shirt he's fully dressed split infinitely he of this he's charged and that job was worth 20 million dollars so he goes into jail but while in jail he made Sacro that we can only refer to as the runner and he offers that crook $100,000 to kill Jason Moran [Music] the runner was a man who did armed robberies the career criminal and been a gunman for two decades his trick was to park his car he's getaway car a long way from the bank for whatever his target was he'd do the job and then he'd run hence the nickname you know he doesn't blink it on he just goes lip no worries I'll do that when I get out so he's cutting [ __ ] me so what we had we had car Williams and we had the Moran's all facing different drug charges but remember you've got corruption charges against the drug squad as well and quite rightly it was decided that the corruption charges against the police had to be dealt with first because these detectives were the star witnesses in the drug cases what will in fact emerge is that there was a fairly high level of corruption that particular individuals some of them are still waiting trial I shouldn't mention their names but who were undoubtedly paying off police for protection and information there's a need to be a little bit cautious here because there are some current matters before the court where this whole issue may well be central to those matters but I think it's now a matter of record that corruption police corruption was definitely a factor in allowing some of those people to get to the position they got to and then assisting them to remain there but what happens then is that carl's bailed and around that time in that very same week Jason is jailed for a series of assaults in a King Street nightclub which left several people including one woman badly injured so like ships in the night they pass cars out adjacent in Carl decides at this time that it's probably best if he goes after Mark Moran he's isolated without Jason there first off from had Richard 11 [ __ ] his shop debt believed that he was probably Mark Marines minder so Moran's exposed yeah these crooks are often considered to be cool and calm and calculating within knock they're idiots mark Moran has good security on his house and in his business you'd want it but he parks his car outside in the street perfect spot for car Williams in the day the ambushes Mark Moran and shooting mark Moran who shot dead outside his luxury 1.3 million dollar home in a bath or tea Carol Dimas is probably involved in up to 10 murders but this is the only one where he pulls the trigger mark was the best of the lot I love my entirely different dejection mark was a lot harder than Jason a lot of Jason was a pushy compared to man Jason I can remember him crying on my shoulder at least four or five times birdie I've killed Matt [Music] Mack Moran he's an unemployed pastry chef where does he get the money that's the clear message having covered this for so long is that people want to know how come these people had so much money and no one was locking them up and why wasn't the text Department carrying through them good point the Moran's have a council of war they look at the potential list of enemies which is not short car Williams name is on it that he's not by any means the first name on the list they still think of him as like their puppy dog that they've hit with a rolled-up newspaper and that he'd Carraway so they didn't think he'd have the dash to do what he did Jason Moran gets out the parole board aware of the risks to him actually let him go overseas which is highly unusual Jason Moran is given a second chance he can take his family he can live overseas he can live a relatively normal life but like many of them he was in love with being a gangster a mobster Long's of which star was there they were happy so he came back even though he had to know that there was a great risk to his life the runner by this stage is out he's teamed up with Karen Williams he's prepared to do the job again we refer to ladies hit men as cool and calm most of them are totally stupid no way I said listen I'll live longer than you Jason I said between two weeks before he died meeting up here in Smith Street Collinwood and I was wearing a coat like this and I walked up and shook his hand he backed off by knew he was carrying gum I wasn't carrying a gun but he thought I was carrying a gun and he gave me a shady handshake and I said you want to pull up Jason I said I saw them I'm gonna live longer than you he said want to say that I think we all realized hello the crooks will go when they shot Jason Moran and Paddy Barbaro in a van and a little kids fully much out of this and then a gunman ran up and he shot the two men in the front side of the van while the little kids were in the back so close that they were actually spattered with blood it was a terrible crime [Music] when I killed Jason nannies might like that in front of the kids I think everybody all Australians realized just how evil they were think of my client you two who were in the house when the Dead was killed and then are in that van when their uncle's kill did wrote a poem and Pasquale Barbra I was just sitting there I'm in the black you killed him didn't even know he was in the car you can never deal with this as to think some sort of romantic battle between two sides it's not it's about killing people it's about ambushing people it's the most awful hideous traumatizing same for strangers to see a body that's been mutilated by a gunshot what it would be like for kids just beggars for life there was blood everywhere take the bigger picture you've got a lot of kids there in parents and what would have happened when the runner ran if a parent had tried to grab it well we know what the banner would have done and yet around solar system when our innocent victims well collateral damage it did he throw the guns down or one of them there for me [Music] the runner gets away ghost Anderson Kilda where he meets car Williams and tells him I've done the job car Williams full of gratitude open Z's pocket and producers in Imbler with two and a half thousand dollars that's all he got he was promised a hundred thousand and he got two thousand five hundred dollars didn't stop him going out that night never got lovely meal with his family I didn't seem to worrying about the fact that he killed two people earlier in the day [Music] but I think any any of us expected enough town because he was just as he's been portrayed the fat boy that was a hanger Allah was doing his best to learn the tribe that eventually made him but that's the initial suspect nah I think he pushed it a bit too far and I think he might have been using his own product a bit and people were getting in his ear and a paranoia was sitting in and people looking for business you know saying kill this so I can kill that one and of course is also its money being thrown up there was no count for let's just all been a misfit sir no it's not true or has just been invented just to sort of sell papers and and make good television I guess [Music] people tie you together unfortunately the media do that Batali giving Haywood I think there's a definite Essene info around that sort of put me with the rest of him there and and they tie you into it all and answering your question here would have been a target automate the runner came from a life of crime he's father I think was basically inside this is a primary school kid who came home one day to find dad was actually stabbing mouth so that wouldn't help you sent much more of his life in prison than out well how I was safe you do more than five you should lose your life I mean there I don't think you can mentally recover from more than five years in prison the changes in the drug world meant that some crooks just came from nowhere and became big players seemingly overnight andrew Veneman was one of them he was just known out any suburb there's a bit of a hothead but within ten months he became a major player looking back on it it's saying that the police didn't really take a lot of notice of what was going on until the body start to hit the paper the public became concerned the media made a splash of it and suddenly the police command realized that they had a problem and that problem had got away from them it was then they realized that they had to make up for lost time that they didn't have the criminal intelligence stored up about these people and one senior policeman did say that he feared that all the answers to the underworld war were out there with his own members what I'm about to say in no way reflects on the troops because I think they were working hard and doing their best in a pretty difficult situation but I think at a higher level we dropped the ball in a couple of ways one is we didn't actually recognize what we were dealing with and deal with it in a joined-up way which is what we subsequently did and clearly our intelligence wasn't up to speed up until this point they've been chasing after the event after a crime they had refused point-blank to accept that there was an underworld war they had individual homicide crews looking at individual murders and not connecting them up everyone had a piece of the jigsaw but no one would actually put it on the table that's where piranhas came in by gathering so what they did they actually from once they allocated a man power and the money and the time and the resources and by resources I mean things like wiretap phone taps and listening devices just to nail down the prime movers and they started to make it rose are able to track some calls and through that they started to link in to associates of car Williams and of the runner now what the police did and how they did it I don't know but they bolted in front of the crooks for the first time putting them into a position where quite legitimately we could put a lot of pressure on them to think about what they wanted to do and get them into a position that ultimately where they rolled and would agree to cooperate give us the information that then allowed us to further develop the picture fill in some of the missing pieces and then go again this way I thought you know it's the one thing that can offer somebody's doing life is you're never going to get outside that cell again unless you come here for a week with us and talk to us it's a great incentive one thing that they can do is break the border [Music] ever lost a client who's brought over sure as in being shot or they demise in another way yeah yeah anyone in particular no wonder what a Navy divers know so while the shootings continued they started to profile the crooks who was Andrea venomoth who was car wins how were they connected I'm at a loss to understand why he went on for as long as it did without somebody without the police being able to find out from an informant or wherever else it was but for example Andrew Veniamin had killed six seven or eight people whether it was somehow police found the clean car that the runner would use in another job and they put a tracking device in the listening devices so they were in front the crooks come and get it hop in it drive away and the brake light starts flickering the crooks stop and they find the tracking device in the car the jobs plan will say you would think but what happens is they drive to Carroll William C by this stage is so full of himself he refers to himself as the premier because I run this state so at this point they show the listening of us the car and Carl goes I don't care we're doing the job what place don't know is what is the job the job is to kill the fellow other neighbor Michael Marshall Michael Marshall lives in a double storey house in South Yarra my commercial it's a hot dog shop so doesn't take too much to work out what else he was selling on the day which was a Saturday the tracking device with the electronics drop out at right at the wrong man and they're a bit like a mobile phone so they don't know what's going on by the time it's back on the run is out of the car going and the next thing they start getting calls from triple zero Michael Marshall has been shot dead next to his young son the runner has run up it was raining he fires one shot slips on his backside when he does it gets up and keep shooting until he kills him the runner hits home get time he's got to know he's hot and what does he do picks up the phone and he rings Carl and he says you know that horse you liked it was scratched well be the worst car in the world and it's picked up on a listening device he's arrested aziz car Williams I [Music] provided you with advice and respect the manner in which you should conduct yourself in the interview that I do interest from nauseous and what applause if I provided with you just not to my interview or even you the William starts to realize they've got the runner cold so he tries to distance himself all of seven cows being looked after by a QC the runners on legal aid car wants a separate trial the runner system will look at least be decent to look after my armor can he give us some money he seemed to Tim grand car Williams was making $100,000 a month in his prime car Woodhams big mistake was shortchanging the runner he had promised him $100,000 for killing Jason Moran he paid him two and a half thousand on several occasions he was dotted and he was interred and we'll never know but the likelihood is that a girl Williams had kept his promise so would have the runner very very stupid move to shortchange the hit men these people been allowed to just continue on where they tried and get bail continually get bail continually offend continually drive their organizations and influence our organizations while they're out on bar well then how can you place something where you're locking people up and they're going through the revolving door than something your nose at you slowly many of those connected with the Moran's were hunted down and shot dead gram Kenna bro old school killed outside his house in Kew he turned up at home and the hit team was waiting Graham got one shot off but it wasn't enough that was the murder that really really affected McKenna that wasn't business it was personal Carl Williams was an unlikely looking gangster he's a bloke with a ready smile it was difficult to sit and talk to him knowing what he'd done after ground Kenna Burrell was murdered i sat with him in the world's worst coffee shop and he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt and he sat with his back to the road and I wanted to actually say to him look you know in gangster 101 you don't do that you gotta wear a designer suit and sit and scale of it but that was part of his not his disguise but probably put a lot of people off in that you'd looked at him and you thought I don't see him as this sword they can organize all those hits the Cowboys what about him you had a meeting with cowboy who's trying to sort it out at one stage of a percent well I wasn't trying to sort it out I was trying to find out he killed Ryan and until that point and I'd had nothing to do with me um you know it was the war over him getting shot by Jason and whatever happened near his their business nothing to do with me but once they killed Brown yeah you know it involved me there and you know it's my connective to manage to find ear there was behind it and and that was a reason for the meeting with Cowell and he you know denied it strenuously he said he respected Graham you never knew him he had nothing to do of it I don't know about then I think he did police won't Louis Moran that he was likely to be on the hit list and they urged him to be less predictable in his movements but Louis didn't listen we didn't really care we thought we were all time gangsters and and took no notice of the up-and-comers so to speak whereas we should have learned and we got death threats every every every week we were drinking and usually Carol on the phone screaming and shouting both that the drug squad and piranhas were both that fairly down on us more so to drug squad because if we were pinched with a gun being on bail we would have gone straight back on remand it was the kind of deadly musical chairs and every time the music stopped one of the bloodshot [Music] [Applause] certainly Andrew Veneman idolized McKenna at one point conventional wisdom is that he started to work for the Calton crew doing jobs for them then there was a bashing in Logan Street which left a man in hospital and around that time venneman appeared to change sides and became close and personal with car Williams Carr Williams wanted him to deliver chase him around to be killed and venneman never did so even though Williams always said venneman was his closest friend in reality he didn't trust him he wasn't actually sure that if he changed sides once he wouldn't change again towards the end Williams would never meet Penniman on his own frightened of an ambush [Music] venneman was becoming increasingly isolated and in that world you need all the friends folks many still got to come and see our discerning for a couple of months he was running with the other side there and and I was just curious what do you want so ring him on this day and he rocked up there and he was the one that actually suggested we go at the back I never quite yet and that's one it all took place on I was telling that the rooms were still right that that he had something rules Graham and and he said matter wouldn't do that to you're a friend of mine and I said what's funny you say that PK and and debris were your friends too and he killed them and anyway we've gotten a little bit of a heated argument I just said normal look you can't be trusted and I don't want you my company in their company as simple as that and the next money just step back and produced again and then we had a struggle and when the Lincoln ahead and fortunately he got shot oh I never he died and it was [Music] for nine months of spent in my accountable weaker what's up in a shack a lager dub but anyway when the jury came back he sat there and he addressed his family and he said we're going to hear the most important words of our life that either be one word or two guilty or not guilty the jury returned they looked at Godot which is always a good sign and they announced not guilty [Music] maquette I told the jury that he was glad he'd shot Benji because he said if I didn't do it he was going to kill me and he said if it wasn't if it wasn't me I would have been given the case to the city for doing it Andrew venneman at the time ores and a constant police exposure and it was said that he'd stop routinely carrying a firearm [Music] but Mikado's version of events was that he had again on this occasion will never know what venneman had to say about it police suspect that andrew Veneman was present during at least seven murders and probably the triggerman in nearly all of them for Lewis Moran it was always going to be a case of when and where it was March 31 2004 and it was the Brunswick Club over a cool beer I turned around to pick up the change after the bar we were going and I said let's get out of here Louis I had a bad feeling that night this black bush elbowed me Assad put ashati into Lewis is gone and pushed him towards the passageway and lost who did that all he had to shut him he turned around and smiled at me you could see underneath this fella car I'm a good look then I went towards the front door as I meant about the front door I said it's out of black point in the shooter at mate he was gonna hit me right in the head and span around tried to kick him he shot me with a yeah nine mil hard to shop I put my hand over my head that's what this bastards gonna come along and finish me off which is what you normally expect anyway I must have met me understood by then and I said might as he is a off and I said a is dead he's dead before he hit the ground and then finally Mario Candela killed when he returned home to make sure he made these curfews for bail but there was at least one he'd been waiting for him [Music] piranhas are desperately trying to roll over key players connected with car Williams to give evidence against it they're having some success they don't even bother going near the runner cause he's so old-school he's never spoken to police ever but all of a sudden there's a letter that arrives at the Director of Public Prosecutions office it's a letter from the runner saying he'd better come and see me members of Parana go out grab him take him out to a secret location keep him for three weeks where he makes statement after statement after statement at the end of it they say what do you want he says I had killed for a vanilla slice the coda silenced a lot of rubbish as far as I'm concerned every one of them 90% of the people will cut a deal when it's seen Nick that's in the nurse we were doing deals with shooters but quite rightly the police and the Director of Public Prosecutions said there is a higher group that we want to get the other ones who gave the instructions who paid to have these jobs done so a deal was done for the runner he is lucky he won't die in jail he'll leave jail as an old man but there is light at the end of the tunnel this is your intention to remind you for the reminder questions asked about the murders of Terry and Christine Hudson was the low point at this whole gangland war previously people thought it was crooks killing crooks Terry Hudson was the police informer he's killed before he can give evidence in a police corruption case the case collapses if it is true what petrol say that these events are linked me well you're killing a friggin star witness you mentally on killer judge [Music] they were already front they had guard dogs but they let someone they knew into their house and they reward for that was to be made to kneel there on their own kitchen floor and both of them were shot dead christine was shot dead merely for the fact that she was there and she would have known the shooters face to kill Terry Hudson was really an attack on the whole criminal justice system to kill a witness is to attack the system itself it was no longer crooks just killing crooks it was an attack on all of us when I did the planning for the face of piranhas that I brain part of that planning was corruption I told my people we you will encounter serious corruption during the courses investigation I didn't know what it was going to be but I knew we would uncover it because it's endemic to organized crime organized crime does not exist without some form of corruption time was running out for Carl if all the trials went ahead and he was found guilty he was certainly going to be sentenced to life with no minimum his lawyers wanted him to do a deal so he could get a minimum sentence but he kept playing games until February of 2007 virtually just before a jury was impaneled he made noises finally that he would do a deal Carl Williams was escorted into the court he needed to formally plead guilty to three murders if a deal was to be done during the delay Carl's parents George and Barbara were allowed into the court proper and while George remained silent Barbara begged her son not to plead guilty and then the court was convened everyone held their breath and then Carl Williams played her guilty to three murders Jason Moran Louis Moran and small-time drug dealer Marc Barney [Music] [Applause] the deal williams wanted was 33 years as a minimum that would mean he could get out when he was 69 to do that he needed to cooperate with the authorities so Carl got up and he made a self-serving and clearly bogus statement it was designed to show his colleagues that he hadn't rolled over on them and it was designed to actually damage prosecution witnesses in upcoming cases he sat down with a smile but the judge she wasn't smiling at all and just as king made comments about the clearly disingenuous nature of the statement it showed that he hadn't reformed at all so instead of getting 33 years as a minimum he got 35 williams was filthy and tried to make a statement from the court but just as King simply looked and said take the prisoner away and that was the last moment that Williams was saying is almost a frame now police would like to say we've learned from their mistakes well let's wait let's wait and see in five or ten years whether that will still exists the challenge for us is to manage organized crime and to keep it at a level that's acceptable to the community that's what we've got to do but to pretend that somehow we're going to make it go away or disappear I think it's just we're just getting ourselves over that era there were 33 underworld deaths and 17 of those were loosely connected but in some of the cases there were innocent victims people not connected not gangsters but witnesses or people who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time car William says he can look in the mirror and what he says looking back as a soldier he's just got it so wrong he said he never shot any innocent people or had them shot Karen Williams in one regard became a serial killer in that he wouldn't stop until he was caught you begin to believe your own [ __ ] I suppose yeah some of them did that's for sure I don't care wouldn't refer to himself as the premier because he said I run this state correct you lost the election about 35 years yeah I mean it's all it's a long time in office so this is not a war it's based on grade it's based on the drug market there's no honor and what went on and even now if Karen wants to glorify what he did well if that gets him through the knot in maximum security good luck to him because he won't see his daughter's 16th birthday there identify the 21st if he's lucky he'll leave jail an old hunched over this really sad me if he's lucky [Music] join us tomorrow as time is running out in the intriguing case that has everyone guessing we'll new evidence be uncovered to point to the prime suspect don't miss the gripping new series Hunter 8:30 tomorrow night on ABC 1 [Music] you [Music]

Channel: steve6231

Views: 80,641

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Id: B5yDUtaWjzg

Length: 53min 21sec (3201 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 25 2018