D&D Isn't Slow - A Response To Runesmith

before we get into the video i'm gonna shout out the sponsor right here so i don't have to interrupt bing bang boom world anvil world anvil is a world building tool and platform that you can use online for your rpg games including dungeons and dragons you can import maps characters and all the lore and notes you want they have a family tree system a way to put notes on a map and then in that map put more notes and then put another map inside the map so it's like this really cool map inside a map inside a map you can also now roll dice put in stats make articles there's so many things you can do with world envelope you guys get started today with my code xp to level three for twenty percent off your subscription there's a link down below you've posted cringe and now it's time to die i'll use my ultimate power to strip you of your title be prepared this is a response video to uh logan also known as the runesmith who made a video called why d d feels too slow i watched his video multiple times and uh yeah there's a lot of stuff in there that i agree with his points are pretty well illustrated i guess he's pretty good at what he does this video i'm making right now is not an attack on logan he's not dumb or crazy this isn't to like roast him or anything i just have different thoughts than what he illustrated in his video he goes through three major points that to him slow down d and d a lot his main solution which he mentions at the beginning of the video is because we overthink it and use too many rules which is a little hyperbolic but i get where you're going logan compares it to occam's razor which is a theory that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interesting because occam's razor can kind of go both ways even though its base definition is to be used against things that are over complicated you can also make an argument that occam's razor can be used the other way around where just because something is simple does not mean it's right logan effectively thinks that d d takes too long because too much stuff gets in the way i disagree with this take so much that i made this video i'm gonna break down some of his points arguments and solutions and show why d and d isn't slow and the true hidden meaning behind logan's words that i think motivated him to write this script and make this video in the first place before we get into it let me remind you all that logan is my sworn enemy no really guys this isn't beef this isn't drama we just disagree logan and i have been friends for a long time and i'm pretty sure he's gonna send a thumb in response to this video and say different strokes for different folks all right so the way that we're gonna do this is basically run through the points logan expressed in the video and i'll provide my thoughts behind his statements i'm not going to cherry pick and twist his words i'm going to be as respectful as i can and run through all the points that he makes in this video while also not trying to make this video 30 minutes long we're trying to be more positive here on xp to level 3. after the introduction logan's first point on why d d is too slow is the opening he basically says every dm starts their session by describing surroundings and where the players are currently and then they don't make anything happen the players are launched into an open ocean without any means of moving in any direction i often run my games like this as logan said hyperbolically every dm does this he doesn't actually mean every dm does this but a lot of dms do do this me included this is the primary reason many dm's recap last game so most players know what happened last time you're not doing a great job as a dungeon master if you're just starting the game and the players have zero direction which is exactly what logan brought up now a strong opening into the game can definitely motivate players right into the action this is the point where the dm hands the reins to the players and allows them to decide what will happen in the game this is the back and forth two-way street of dungeons and dragons the dm sets up a thing the players respond and then the dm gives them more and then it goes back and forth and back and forth for hours and hours and hours until it's two in the morning and you didn't realize how long you were playing the game this is pretty much the beauty of role-playing games that the dm is not in charge of everything i think what logan is complaining about is indecisive players now here's a point i'm gonna bring up a lot in this video i'm gonna compare a lot of logan's points to this other role-playing game system that we both really like called city of mist logan i know really really like city of mist and i'm not using it as a way to go uh hey idiot remember how you like this well you're wrong and stupid logan actually brings it up in his video and i'm pretty certain he likes it a lot more than dungeons and dragons and the reason i bring it up now is because this argument of a game starting with the players having to take the narrative forward and decide what to do is the exact gameplay loop of city of mist the entirety of city of mist is that there's almost no dungeon master whatsoever in fact it's called an mc a master of ceremonies and the players themselves are the ones who are kind of describing what's going on they kind of narrate the game the mc just kind of either lets things happen brings things in or tells them yes or no but it's mostly completely up to the players on what they want to do and accomplish and what they want their scene in this movie style role-playing game to look like to me this is a natural part of games and not to get a little theoretical but even life you take initiative in something this isn't the dm's job to constantly throw players into an exploding lava volcano wipeout obstacle course a lot of d indeed games are gonna start with you guys are here this is what you did last time with that information what do you do but logan goes further on to kind of explain his point which is this suddenly we all have to figure out a plan even though we probably had one when we left off and just forgot but every party members differences shine here in a bad way when they start disagreeing on what to do for the next hour and a half and that's not really their fault because they sat down to role play so they're gonna slam down the gas pedal on their character's personality except their only outlet right now is the other players arguing with one another is still role-playing sure some people may not find it as fun as relaying your tragic backstory or buying things or discussing the water deep stock market this may sound strange but deciding what to do at the beginning of a dnd game can be a lot of fun getting to strategize weigh your options consider outcomes that's like prime role-playing you get to think and consider your abilities the people you've met the actions you've taken the consequences the story the dm has laid out the world where you've been what your character cares about and so on i don't understand why logan is caught up on this part of the game being a slog decisions matter so much in role-playing games it's what sets them apart from literally every other medium in a video game your consequences don't really matter that much because you can always go back a save or even replay the game in dungeons and dragons your choices are permanent and you can't go back on them so yeah i think they're gonna be a little important i actually have the opposite problem where the players do the opposite and they just rush forward to the last thing that we remember without considering any of our other options i find this so frustrating as a player because i care about everything else and what we could do logan goes on to explain what dungeon masters should do because of this dungeon masters please have a direction planned at the start of the session and let your players know immediately what it is don't have them figure it out this isn't a mystery and you're not making it interesting by being quiet the beginning of the session is the tutorial the least you can do is let them know that they can press a to jump i agree with logan's point here the very first session and most sessions definitely require a catalyst for the story you need to have a direction for your party of course my question to logan is more what d d games are you playing where you're starting the game in the middle of a barren field with zero direction on where to go i have to assume that the d d games that you are playing are the ones where you are getting to go in multiple directions and accomplish multiple things because the party has to obviously argue about something so i'm confused you want a direction to go which you have the party is willing to argue about this but you don't want the dm to give multiple ways to go is that what i'm understanding you basically want the dm to give one single direction to the party and ignore anything else that they could do just so the game can actually begin i think this is amazing advice for session one session one of your d d games has to have some sort of prompt goal and action it's still the player's choice on what they decide to do and you really shouldn't be like go here this way this is where the quest is but that can be really really helpful for session one games because there's no prior knowledge it's just here's the game now what are you going to do still my point stands do you need to be reminded on how to jump with the a button every single time you pick up super mario 64. so from this section or chapter of your video i've gathered this as a perfect fast start to a dnd game we start the game we last left off in a town the party learned that there is a troll hiding in the town somewhere they must slay it before anyone gets hurt we left off last game with the party deciding where to get leads on the trolls whereabouts a guard told them that it could be a tavern the sewers or the slums no time for discussions suddenly a man runs up to you and says i think i saw the troll at the tavern well let's discuss if we should go to i think it would be better if we went to the sewers less people could get hurt yes but more witnesses at the tavern maybe we could go there to inquire on its whereabouts oh no my players are bickering this is not fun this is the slowest part of the game they're deciding where to go i just wanted them to go to the tavern immediately i think the only way as a player in this scenario that you would find this slow and boring is if you just didn't care about what anyone was saying or you don't care about the outcome of this scenario you just want to go do the thing with no one disagreeing with you logan then goes on to his second point which is combat and no matter how well planned combat was the game still comes to a massive halt when everyone rolls initiative sure it's iconic but only because of how often it happens initiative is iconic because the term role initiative is when the action starts it's the buckle your seatbelt [ __ ] it's time to fight a troll now i know that's not what logan actually means he's more saying that rolling initiative is iconic in the game system and that it's been in the game system for a long time and that's why everybody likes it i personally really don't like the initiative structure and turn-based combat is naturally much slower than the actual fight d d combat feels like x-com if you give everyone one character and then the dungeon master controls eight other characters but doesn't use any strategy logan who hurt you i don't have a great solution for this because it's a core mechanic but let me speed it up a tad first stop using initiative roles you're married to them now but they're abusive and they're lazy put the ring down walk out the door and try to experience new relationships broaden your horizons try other systems put the d4 up your butt so from what i'm gathering too many players of d d are just too married to initiative because it's iconic with dungeons and dragons it's just so ingrained into our heads we can't even possibly think about using something else so logan's solution is that he doesn't have one because it's too core and ingrained into the game and you should use passive initiative or try other systems and use what they use first of all um those three picture examples that you gave us pathfinder uses a rolled initiative system shadowrun uses a rolled initiative system even furry pirates uses a rolled initiative system so maybe just maybe the millions of us who play roleplaying games haven't been brainwashed into liking initiative maybe it just works because a lot of systems use it now i'm not saying that you have to like d d combat i know very well that there are other combat systems that are probably more fun and straight to the punch and work a lot easier than other systems but those systems aren't dungeons and dragons and your idea that initiative is slow is your opinion i don't think it's fair to tell everyone that the initiative system that we all use and like is abusive wrong and we should try something else basically i disagree with this point from logan purely just to say this initiative system works really well for what it is and it works really well for a lot of other systems and i don't think there's a really good way to avoid it and shoving in things that make it quicker will in theory make it a lot quicker but you're sacrificing so much like dice rolling and the randomness of initiative just to save a couple of minutes and i think that that is not as fun but hey it's not like you can't listen to logan at all if you enjoy this more as a dungeon master as a player then just do it he's like i said at the beginning of the video logan isn't an idiot he's not being he's not wrong in any way here i just disagree with him i think this is not a good way to save time for dungeons and dragons during combat you can have too many players and too many enemies what you want to do is essentially cut as much fat from combat as you can and don't keep secrets that you don't need to let players know armor classes use average damage rolls make similar enemies all act at the same time totally agree that you should cut fat in combat i've learned this from my campaigns and years of being a dungeon master unless absolutely necessary like your players are deciding to encounter a huge amount of enemies at once and this is the direct choice that they made and they want this you don't need to have a combat with 20 things in it it may sound really cool to newer dungeon masters but i i promise you the amount of stress you will go through as a dungeon master to keep track of 20 things at once is really not fun unless you can keep track of all of that using average damage is awesome i do it all the time i don't need to constantly roll dice but if you as a dm enjoy the random dice and can keep the combat rolling while you do it then just do it that's what i do with online virtual tabletops i i like to do the rolled dice because it's just as fast as doing the average dice making similar enemies act at once is a great way to speed up combat but can easily overwhelm the players so long as it's not 10 goblins at once cause you'll just tpk because action economy but not keeping secrets giving players armor class i don't agree with this at all basically you want every combat to be everyone has the same exact turn enemies do the same damage the whole time ac is always known that to me sounds way more boring as every combat would get stale after the first round just to save a couple of minutes i don't really think that necessarily speeds up your game anyways because you're gonna have to explain the ac you're going to have to pre-write down all of the encounters further subjecting that your game is a set certain way they're gonna go here they're gonna encounter this i already have the initiative prepared and since they already know the ac it's just gonna be a combat with i do this i go there i do this i go there there's no room for creativity here it's just d i know if i hit and i know the damage it does that can get stale really fast and a very big one let players combine their turns completely remove the help action and instead have people coordinate their stuff for avengers style combo moves it's also really good because while other people are taking their turns the players who are bored can still talk about what they're gonna do next together geez logan first you tell us not to coordinate now you want us to coordinate during combat joking aside though i actually think this would make combat way slower mostly because in the middle of combat having two different players talk about their turn while another player is trying to take their turn can really slow down the game and make everything a lot more monotonous because then you introduce crosstalking two players are now going to try to plan their turn while somebody else is planning their turn and then they have to explain all their stats and abilities and spells and whatnot to them it would just get so complicated it wouldn't even be worth it plus in the regular d d combat environment you can already do this the help and ready action allow players to combine their turns and use them together the great part about d d combat is that its narrative opportunities are completely open to the players just like in city of mr 10 candles the narrative control is completely in the hands of the players during combat allowing it to be creatively freeing this is why people like to roll dice you say that eventually excitement would be replaced by monotony but i don't want to play in an rpg game where i just succeed at everything i do randomness is the exciting part of d d you've got it backwards i don't understand how rolling a lot could eventually get boring it's what actively changes up the game this brings me to your third point debating a course of action goes on too long you suggest a city of mist rule where everyone only gets five actions before a scene ends city of mist works in scenes and much like a movie a scene ends after so many things happen you also suggest using a timer or the threat of death i assume you say a swarm of rats but i don't think you would want to start an encounter because that would add more time and take longer because then you would have to roll initiative or go into this automated initiative and now you would have to make a new initiative with the rats in it god it just sounds like you want to play a video game regardless all of these options are great for high stakes moments maybe the walls are enclosing in on the players they only have five actions to get something done or maybe they're sinking into a sand pit and uh you pull out the timer to decide what they're gonna do or maybe they are walking down a hallway and suddenly a thousands of swarms of rats are coming at them and if they hit them they're gonna die but you say that this isn't for high stakes this is for something like crossing a pit which is just something the players can discuss i forgot you hate that waiting for the players to figure out how to cross a pit and they're all mad at each other bring out the hourglass and then bring out the rat swarm and whenever someone actually tries to cross the pit just let them do it so ultimately your advice is that if something takes too long the dm should just let the player do what they want and immediately solve the problem with no rolling at all in this idea of a fast game just like the example earlier the players are thrusted right into the tavern once the players arrive at the tavern the troll is attacking the dm tells everyone the ac of the troll and the same cookie cutter initiative is brought out rogue is always first then the fighter and ranger go at the same time and always coordinate their attacks because it's better and they can't coordinate with anyone else because they're stuck in this basic initiative and the wizard is last after defeating the troll the party must now decide on how to take a trophy back to the king as proof for killing it as the dm you'll say it'll be difficult as the troll is heavy and to cut off a piece of its leathery body would be difficult a party tries to come up with a plan to cut off parts of the troll and the dm decides that this is taking too long and gives everyone only five actions to tear apart the troll they all then decide what exactly their actions should be and who has the best skills this conversation is now longer and no longer about the creativity of the situation and it's all about who can succeed on the highest roll the dm pulls out a timer and says they have two minutes to figure this out the ranger just gives up and decides to cut off its nose the dm says it succeeds with no roll because that would take too long and they move on to get their reward clearly a d d game filled with choices stakes and variety yeah i know that's ridiculous but that's kind of how i see logan's advice here just to put it plainly and to be honest and to be fair to him this isn't what he wants what i'm hoping is that my viewpoint year will further push his mind and imagination to discover new ways for him to play the game that isn't destructive because in my opinion a lot of this advice is destructive and i think the real ideas logan has in his head is not that d is super slow i think logan doesn't want to wait for other people to decide he wants to know what is going on and to be in control of the situation and take on the game with his own wit and understanding without anyone to slow him down which to me just sounds like he wants to play minecraft and i think that this is my advice to you logan or to anyone who agreed with his video there is a joy in the people you get to play the game with you get to have a shared experience that combines the wit and sometimes stupidity of your friends d isn't about winning or being the best or knowing everything or even telling the best story it's about the fun you have with everyone around the table and sometimes that doesn't have to be perfectly acted out i implore you to explore the minds and thoughts of others because they can very much surprise you and together you can create something that wouldn't have been possible by yourself anyways make sure to have fun in your games guys and don't take this too seriously logan is my friend and he was at my wedding last week and said some really kind words that i will take to my grave so i love this man if you guys go flame him that is basically a slight against me and yes i'll take it personally because he is my best friend okay anyways that's the end of the video

Channel: XP to Level 3

Views: 408,438

Keywords: dnd, d&d, dungeons and dragons, how to, tutorial, funny, monk, fighter, 5e, player, book, dm, dungeon master, roll, ranger, rogue, paladin, cleric, barbarian, bard, wizard, sorcerer, warlock, artificer, mystic, skits, idea, character, stats, build, new, tips, gm

Id: ZUxr_CcXAlM

Length: 21min 6sec (1266 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 03 2020