Day at Night: Edward Teller, nuclear physicist

James Day public television pioneer and chairman of the CUNY TV Advisory Board passed away in April 2008 his legacy includes the series day at night which aired for 130 episodes beginning in 1973 the program features interviews with many of the great thinkers and achievers of the 20th century these 30-year old programs have been restored the interviews remain fresh and relevant today exploring issues that are still important to society showing them again as CUNY TVs tribute to Jim and his contributions to public television dr. Edward Teller is a nuclear physicist whose name is inevitably linked to the key role he played in a development of nuclear fusion to atomic weaponry his theoretical physics and his persistence against many of his scientific colleagues who are unwilling to push atomic weaponry further were very important the development of the so-called hydrogen bomb as a theoretical physicist he's pursued an interest since the war in molecular physics in astrophysics and in the applications of nuclear energy to some of the world's most pressing problems he's also been a teacher and has a deep interest in the education of young scientists dr. tiller is currently the associate director at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory which he helped to establish which he headed from 1958 to 60 he's also University professor on the Berkeley campus and a member of the Commission on critical decisions as well as the president's foreign intelligence advisory board dr. teller has been an enormous explosion in scientific discovery and technological advances since the world war two has all that changed in any way the scientists role in society there has been an enormous increase in technology not in sight not in pure science not in a discovery of and there are some branches of pure science for instance in biology where great discoveries have been made in the field of my interest in physics the decades preceding the Second World War have been decades of much more rapid development and much more fundamental development actually of development or which most of the public is still really unaware ready they heard the words they haven't understood the meaning and the consequences are yet to to be felt by most people what are the consequences of relativity what are the consequences of the fact that an atom is as unpredictable as human beings are supposed to be what were the real consequences to humankind of the discovery that our planet is quite insignificant compared to the universe the importance of a scientific discovery is not measured by its consequences but those discoveries are building blocks for applications that may be made or we're locks there are building blocks for applications they are also remarkable values spiritual values in their own right and what I deplore and what I think is remarkable is that we are behaving today as people would have been behaving in the second half of the sixteenth century had they not known that the world is round educated people at that time knew that the world is old educated people today have not understood the really fundamental changes that have occurred in physical science and you're speaking now of educated people as a whole group or not educated I am talking about educated people I'm not talking about the 10% of the American people who do not believe that we have visited the moon there is 10% of - more than 10% my daughter as a high school teacher ran into a group of youngsters who are just laughing at her they were 15 years old they just knew that a whole moon landing operation was a fake as part of the sinister Sam I suppose it is technique is a part of the credibility of television how do you feel about the money that went into the moon exploration I think that this is this was not money spent on science it was money spent on an extremely interesting part of technology and it was money that was spent on public amusement and of all the man that ever has been being spent on public amusement this chunk of money was best bet because to CP landing on the moon was inspiring what about its scientific value it was there it was not very great that money could have been spent more more usefully in science but no no no that same money could not have been spent on science because we don't have enough scientists on whom to spend it money does not buy science money buys technology you see the tremendous progress that occurred in science between let us say 1900 and 1930 crossed practically nothing what first caught your interest in science as a youngster in Budapest you'd won in a chemical engineering originally didn't you I can't answer the question because it is not appropriate I wanted when I was very young person I wanted to become a mathematician my father said this is not a practical occupation I should do something that can be applied and we compromise on chemical engineering and I actually cheated because I took chemical engineering and mathematics at the same time and my father was not only reasonably well satisfied in fact completely satisfied but after two years he gave up and he said all right if you still wanted to do whatever you like by that time I was in Germany studying and by that time that was 1928 the fundamental discoveries on atomic physics have been made now I did understand by that time that the behavior of the atom was a completely new word was quite different of anything anybody the end of only ten years of 15 years earlier and the remarkable novelty the challenge of these new ideas that is what mean to a physicist when I was 20 years old and was exciting to a young boy it was it was very exciting it was and I think it was not only exciting because at 20 years I was more excitable hahaha see you want to Copenhagen to study Morgan that is I did spend a year in Copenhagen but most of my actual education occurred in Leipzig I was talking I was thinking of Niels Bohr with her well I I did visit in Copenhagen for a year and I knew Niels Bohr but I did not learn nearly as much for him as I did from Heisenberg whom I knew much better than him and Germany then I suppose was the center of science that Baylor is because in Hagen perhaps even more so I just had closer relations to Heisenberg who was also much closer to me an age you first came to America to teach at George Washington University in 1935 years what attracted you the job the opportunity well actually you see a left Giovanni when Hitler came yes and I was looking for a job then a very good friend of mine George Gamow got settled as professor of physics at George Washington University and he sort of sent for me he asked me to join him he was fun it wasn't very good to work with him there was an offer of a job I came and I didn't didn't we get it in anyway hmm how then did you go from George Washington University into the Manhattan Project you went in by stages I gather well what are the rapid stages and I don't think it's even worthwhile to think about those stages the main point is that two events occurred in 1939 or rather in the last months of 19th of the 8th shishun was discovered and that opened the possibility of the practical application of nuclear energy and the other is that the Second World War came along having escaped from Hitler I think I had a good idea or rather a horrible idea what was at stake and I was among those who were exceedingly eager to do whatever was possible to stop this horror these were the two reasons and perhaps it's not terribly interesting to think back on the question how in detail they operated yes on that day when you and dr. Leo Szilard called upon in Stein to ask him to sign the letter to President Roosevelt to push forward with the development of an atomic weapon you've had the feelings you've just described I assume that is to say the importance of applying what was known about fission well let me say that I acted in the very distinguished role of the sufferer of Leo Silla it was his initiative I knew him I liked him I tended to agree with him but I essentially helped him and actually on that day just a few weeks before the Second World War started in Poland on that day my own opinions have not yet been fully crystallized Silla was very definitely turning to go ahead and I was quite willing to help you although you know this is just a chance occurrence I drove Siddarth to a rendezvous this Einstein and Silla had a letter ready for signature which Einstein and he had discussed already earlier so let's not exaggerate the importance of chauffeurs and Einstein then obviously was prepared to sign there was no other argument relation he received us in slippers invited us to have a cup of tea read the letter and nod of his head inside was all there was to it the tea was good the consequences that flowed from that and I'm being a bit dramatic about this but the development of nuclear weaponry raised that very important question in scientists minds about whether a scientist has an obligation to consider the ethical moral philosophical consequences of his work how do you feel about that well today the I don't think I have changed my mind about that a great deal my strongest feeling is that it is a terrible mistake on the part of the scientists to take themselves too seriously and there's somewhat less of a mistake but still a big mistake on the part of everybody else to take the scientists terribly serious I believe that a scientist has an extremely important job and that is to make science nobody else can do it it's a wonderful business it is in a way what drives humanity forward it is what unites humanity in the end for better or for worse and it tells the scientist who alone can do that he has then a second responsibility that is a little less basic but very important at least for some scientists to apply what they have found I was not concerned with any applications prior to 1979 the Second World War bought me into the field of applications and I must say that pure science has attacked that me more than applications and if I would follow my tastes I would go back to pure science today however I also found that after the Second World War applications were dangerously neglected in the need for people to look after applications has increased ever see as is only too clear today in connection with the energy shot and has not been followed as you to say they've not looked after them as they should if I understand you correctly they have the scientists as a whole the academic community as a whole has neglected applications to the point where the United States is now losing its leading role in technology effect which has not been comprehended is that I great gate majority of the American people what's the importance of maintaining the lead in technology why isn't it alright to be number two number three well there may be some Christians like standard of living like survivor like maintaining or set of values on free speech you know I avoid that to tell you this a little while ago but I want to tell you now one of the decisive events watchcon which convinced me to work on nuclear weapons was a speech by President Roosevelt the day after Hitler invaded the lowlands where he said it is the duty of the scientist to contribute the weapons which are needed for the defense of freedom the duty I think he either said this or he very clearly implied it I do not know what his precise words were but this was their import and I believe that today when sahjhan et is not allowed to right inertia which is the country he loves freedom his air is in as great danger as it was on that day in the May in May 1940 they rose wealth spoke so I claimed that applications are important if we want to have energy and if we want to have freedom should these scientists make a distinction between destructive and constructive application let me perhaps a delay answering this question for a moment the answer is no but I want to go into more detail on that but I have not finished answering your queries question the scientists should do science the scientist should apply science and the scientists then should explain what the applications mean a very difficult task and the task on which scientists of necessity will work at cross-purposes because what the importance of something is on this there is no scientific opinion nevertheless the explanation is necessary but the science scientist does not make the final decision he said the only person who can the only people who can make the final decision ah the people in power in a totalitarian state all the people who go to the polls in a democratic state I believe in democracy however difficult it is to believe in democracy I do I have seen some of the alternatives and I don't believe it is the business of any group breathe politicians breathe generals beat intellectuals lead scientists to make the decision which belongs the people whom the decisions affect it is the job of the scientist to explain to advise and to explain to the people now let me come back to your other question which is air power perhaps the most important part of this explanation is there a difference between the constructive and the destructive inventions that was you can stress the question yes and I said that I tend to answer now and I will not attempt to prove it instead I want to tell you two stories which illustrate my reasons for saying no one is concerned but one concerns a weapon a weapon in the battle of the sexes I mean nylon nylon yes you know as a nylon slash and this most people will say is a peaceful invention yet when the pond first succeeded in producing nylon the girls didn't get any stockings they went somewhere else because you're at war and the nylon all of it was used intelligence it was used in war the inventor of night had no idea that it would be used as a better and when it claimed had no control over it whatsoever now let me give you an other example which is much more massive much more important perhaps less amusing in 1930 a German physical chemist Fritz Harbor discovered the method how to fix nitrogen how to bind nitrogen which we have in the air to other atoms and make it available for chemicals when Germany went to war in 1940 the High Command knew that a war would be ended by Christmas they knew it partly because they had a plan to be victorious before that the plan of course as we all know me scared but they also knew that they could not fight beyond Christmas no matter what because they needed guano from Peru to make more gunpowder and the British blockade stopped their supply of gunpowder then they noticed that a problem had been solved for them by Fitz Harbor the year before and this discovery has turned something that would have been a very terrible disturbance of four months or so into a worldwide catastrophe of more than four years that's what science did but the same discovery of its Harbor makes it possible to produce fertilisers and we dealt with Charles discovery we could not maintain more than two billion people on this earth today the survival of half of the people who live today depends upon earth depends on that discover I saw was that discovered something good or something Varys Nova who discovers anything does have or can have an idea how it will be used or the scientists can do is to go forward to understand to apply and to explain we have about one minute I'm going to ask you a trivial question I know you don't like trivial questions but I'm curious first a small country like Hungary has produced in science an uncommon lot of leading scientists I think of you as a lard von Neumann mathematician is there some reason that out of the small country has come so many leading men of science I have two answers one is it's an optical illusion Hungarians you mentioned some very wonderful people have a high visibility and that gives you the illusion that there are many of us my other answer is that we who came from Hungary have escaped a shipwreck and we have behaved like people who have been in a shipwreck and would prefer not to be in a second one death to a small extent does set us apart thank you very much

Channel: CUNY TV

Views: 72,052

Keywords: day at night james day cuny tv, Edward Teller

Id: z8uZKs0Pv68

Length: 28min 38sec (1718 seconds)

Published: Wed May 25 2011