David Seymour: Disrupting the Status Quo in Kiwi Leadership

what is the role of government as a way of being self-fulfilling you don't want to over tax young people have them bugger off to Australia but I can't say anything vaguely unpopular because I might lose a vote at the margin just be terrified of the polls and the media there is a political party called tepatu Maori that represents this very divisive visual I look at most of the current government's policies there tends to be a goodie and a baddie they bring in laws that basically transfer rights from one to the other business gets beaten for some reason because it's somehow Sinister it's tempting to to close everyone off the government has laws and regulations up the wazoo David a huge welcome to the lead on purpose podcast thank you very much for having us here I'm glad glad to connect and thanks for creating a space today not a problem I want to chat a little bit around leadership but first things first what does it mean to you to be a New Zealander um We're a nation of pioneers you know every single kiwi whether you came here a few years ago or a few centuries ago uh you or your ancestors have traveled further to give their kids a better tomorrow than anyone else in history and this you can you can test this just look on the map so we are a pioneering society and we love that stuff about the Kiwi came to attitude the number eight wire and Hillary Clinton Everest and Blake won the America's Cup and Kate Shepard led the world for feminism you know I mean we we love all that stuff my concern is that the way we've gone in the last 15 20 years is that we've kind of become a country that says no too much and I think what's essential if we're going to solve some of our bigger challenges is that we rekindle some of that original DNA that can do attitude it's not there right now but it hasn't gone away we can you know replenish it and if we don't what's the the potential consequence if we keep going down the path we have been going down what does it look like for a few Generations well I mean I look at places like New Zealand I look at Islands with nice beaches and nice climates and most of them you know just sort of turn into a nice place to visit but not a place you'd want to stay so I'm talking Greece I'm talking Fiji Jamaica Cuba you know basically there's something about a nice lifestyle where you can actually be quite happy without doing too much at least for a while um and also being a bit isolated from the rest of the world so you can kind of go off course and delaminate from what's Happening elsewhere um that you would think would be New Zealand's long-term trajectory to become another nice Island Paradise like Fiji say on the other hand um I think that we have a track record of keeping this dream alive first world nation in an island paradise we seem to have a unique blend some of the British institutions that we inherited some of the nature of the people who had to make this big Journey that seems to be our core DNA that has allowed us to thrive and beat the odds and at times be one of the wealthiest countries on Earth despite our isolation so you know we can overcome the isolation but but that is the the gravity that pulls us down if we're not careful thanks for sharing that and I think a lot about New Zealand being very multi-cultural you know I'm from Ireland I choose to come to New Zealand I look around and there's so many different cultures what's the opportunity here uh with the right leaders in place to really bring all of those cultures together so that we're a more prosperous country well I think it's an extraordinary dream and it's something that New Zealand has made a reality perhaps more than anyone else I mean there are high schools in Auckland where they tell me uh the students speak 58 different languages I mean these are there's probably kids at these schools where you know their home countries are at war or have been recently and yet you don't see that sort of sectarian violence so that basic kiwi idea of egalitarianism I think that's what brought a lot of people here um you know a lot of people came from England to get away from the class system you know people have come from Iran to get away from their oppressive regime people have come from China where they have a one-party State people have come come from Ireland to escape the English but sadly they're still here yes they are so you know I I think that simple idea of human dignity and egalitarianism that's a key kiwi ideal um but of course the rock always comes back so today in New Zealand Society you see people who want to Res sort of I guess restore a kind of a feudal system where they say well because we are born to fenua then we should have a different set of Rights and you have to consult us on this and all the rest um now you know good on them for having a go but I think the onus is on them to point to an example of where that's been a success before um and I I don't think that there is any good example but there's a lot of bad examples and so we're going to keep that egalitarianism you know why did our ancestors or even in many cases ourselves come out here probably for a fair go and that's that's something that we need to really Champion I think that's some important and I just I want to ask you have Maori lineage yeah I do yeah and I think that's really incredible that one that you do and two that you can speak out and go actually we've got to make it fair we've got to make it Equitable and if if we don't what's the risk if we looked at other countries we've done it poorly what would be a good example of how it could go wrong for us well I mean look there's many examples and and you don't want to uh you know go to the worst of them but certainly wherever um a country has tried to make you know someone's background somehow important in terms of their political rights I mean you know Ireland of course has a storied history based not around race as much as religion um you know South Africa is a really obvious example the United States has has really had you know a quarter of a millennium of struggle to try and make that all men are created equal a dream and to a reality and that they're still struggling with that um so you know throughout history people have subjugated each other with prejudice and discrimination you know I think New Zealand perhaps more than any other country has actually realized the dream of equality and it shouldn't matter that some of my ancestors were Mario first of all I'm human and I think when people one thing people forget is you know that there is a political party called tepati Maori that represents this very divisive Vision however last election I think they got 1.2 1.3 percent or 17 percent of Maori identify um or so of new zealanders sorry identify as Maori so as far as I can tell they're representing about six or seven percent of of maudum there are many of us who identify as Maori who don't agree with that Vision at all we actually see ourselves primarily as human beings citizens of the world new zealanders long before we get off into any sectarian Division I love hearing that and the reason they do loving that dividers I came from Northern Ireland and as a kid you know I remember asking my dad I was about five or six and I said dad why are there so many boys in wheelchairs just going down our little town down the main street he had to be kneecapped some I said what do you mean they've been kneecapped I think their knees have been shot off by local paramilitaries so from a young age I was like why but that doesn't make sense and so I obviously started to realize this Catholic versus Protestant thing so from a young age I didn't feel like it belonged so the opportunity to come to New Zealand and be 12 000 miles away from that sectarianism was just a gift now I've got a little boy who's seven and I'm so glad that he gets to grow up here but I want to think about what's the future going to look like for him and potentially my grandkids so what leadership decisions and mindset do we need to be really embracing to make sure that our kids and our grandkids have a really connected cohesive New Zealand well I think it's really important to think about what are the possibilities of a win-win situation so you know I look at most of the current government's policies there tends to be a goodie and a baddie so you know environmentalism good Farm is bad landlords bad tenants good employees good small business owners bad and then of course they bring in laws that basically transfer rights from one to the other but if you think about it farmers are some of the best environmentalists are the only ones who depend on the natural and violent environment for their livelihood they're not trying to destroy their own farm so they can go wrote next year you know landlords and tenants have a symbiotic relationship we should be trying to make it easier to be a landlord bring more people more competition more choices for tenants um that's a win-win situation and in terms of employees and employers you know actually um you know they it's another symbiotic relationship so I think starting to think when when how do we create this the environment where people can come together trade value for value and get stronger together that's really important for New Zealand um we haven't had enough of that win-win thinking and I think the other thing is being prepared to actually say things that may be unpopular initially rather than just be terrified of the polls and the media I mean I'll give you a classic example um basically every country in the west that I can think of you know Ireland Italy Spain Israel Taiwan Britain America Australia Germany all of them are raising their age of entitlement uh to superannuation and the the reasons are simple people are living longer and they're having fewer kids so there's more retirees less taxpayers and the ratio doesn't work the simplest way to shift the ratio is to shift the age and it's fear and just because if people are living longer and healthier they don't need retirement income as early as they may have in the past it's basic mathematics right yeah it's it's just arithmetic and you know act has never flinched from standing up as long as I've been on Parliament saying this needs to happen and it's actually going to be easier if we start earlier so labor are now despite having criticized National for not raising it in opposition 10 years ago now staking their campaign on we will keep the age at 65. the Nets and I'll say no no we will raise it but what they're not telling you is they want to start adjusting the age in 2044 in other words in 20 years which interestingly the last announcement in 2017 was that they'd start in 2027 so they're always promising to do something in 20 years time that's an example where political leaders need to stand up have the courage of their convictions explain the maths and say this is why we're doing it ultimately it's fear and it's in your best interest because you don't want to over tax young people have them bugger off to Australia because then you've got a really big problem with affording super um so you know that's the other thing I think think win-win but also be prepared to make hard calls and explain them rather than you know I can't say anything vaguely unpopular because I might lose a vote at the margin um yeah you might but I think you get more votes in the long term if people believe that you have integrity and are truly committed to the country and while and I I get this a lot so I don't always agree with David Seymour about at least dot dot dot and and that's I think more important than you know chasing every single polling figure and I love the word integrity as you were speaking I was thinking of integrity and congruence and clearly they're important values for you so what shape your values your leadership values was there were there people in your life at a young age who really shaped how you see the world yeah I mean you know a lot of people start with the Imam in fact that's a biological fact um yeah I I my mum was interesting and that she was one of the last people in the Western World to contract the polio virus wow um and you know being born in 1956 totally different attitude to people with a disability then I mean now of course if somebody's living with a disability we all you know do everything we can to to try and you know treat them as people but for that disability which we try and help them overcome by being as courteous and helpful as possible at least that's what I would hope back in her time I think she got the sense from a lot of people that having a disability was almost like you're letting the site down a bit totally different view so she was told that she wouldn't walk she wouldn't drive she wouldn't have kids she wouldn't work and long story short she became the chief pharmacist for the Northland dhb which involved going to UNI which they also said she wouldn't do she you know did have she did was able to walk thanks to extraordinary surgical procedures in the late 50s and early 60s which I won't go into the full details of right now but um amazing that she was able to walk against the odds and she had you know two really upstanding kids and one politician so I managed to do that as well um although I always see it I think the critics were half right about her driving the reason I tell that story is it's you know it's a simple idea people can make a difference it's not like bad weather you know you can overcome things but she overcame it with with help with a generous wealthiest state that that was there for you if you had true Misfortune and you know at that time New Zealand was I think one of the top three wealthiest countries in the world um mainly thanks to selling wool to the Korean War but it's another story um and um you know they were able to do World leading surgery to help people in need so that's a vision of New Zealand people can make a difference and and the state is necessary but in concentrated ways for genuine Misfortune um not you know just handing out money to win the next election um my um her father and my grandfather and their wider family they were a literal contractor so they had a business where you come in at the end of the job when things are already behind time um you know you have all sorts of things that can go wrong and Contracting you're usually doing one job to pay for the last one um and I grew up hearing about the effects of exchange rates copper prices very important when you're pulling cables a lot of copper there and the copper price can affect that pretty quickly um and so you know I grew up hearing about the the trials and tribulations of business on a pretty sort of edgy end of of business being electrical contracting um so that really shaped me too that I don't see business as bad I think when people you know entrepreneurs workers investors and customers you know it's four types of people voluntarily coming together to provide what can't be done by any of them alone I think that's actually a beautiful thing um but unfortunately oftentimes you find that business gets beaten for some reason because it's somehow Sinister I think that's wrong you know thank you for sharing that and I certainly as a small business owner I know where you're coming from and I appreciate that viewpoint on it I want to talk a little bit about culture obviously running a country understanding culture and high performance culture what that looks like is important but also right down to your culture here and at the party so you do things a bit differently here just would you mind sharing we obviously chatted off air beforehand but you've got a really cool unique model and I think it really devolves the power and empowers others yeah of course I mean I it for me it goes back to um I don't know why but when I was in my late teens I wanted to try and Coach a rugby team so I coached for seven seasons in total um and what I discovered pretty quickly is that while the the players I had no offense if any of them are watching that um were probably never going to be all blacks the years that I managed to create a good culture and was happy to come along show up to training you know supported each other oftentimes these players who you know may be at the people their career already would do astonishing things on the field because they felt empowered and we've tried to create that basic Insight so uh or use that basic Insight here at act if you look at the way that most parliamentary officers are organized it's one MP one EA off down a corridor with these two adjoining officers I call pregnant officers there's a big office for the MP and a sort of bump on the side for the EA and of course what you've got is a whole lot of employment relationships and a high stress environment often with an inexperienced employer and one person that's asked to provide a whole lot of different services that may not be possible so having had six years as a sole MP to think about these things um when I got you know a big caucus coming in and a lot more funding I said to my MPS look you can do that if you want you take your funding sorted out see how you go or we can do something different and what we did was we all pledged on the first day to pool our resources and then the MPS effectively became shareholders in the caucus support center so then our chief of staff Andrew cattells is an extraordinary guy he has gone and built this caucus support center and there's a Research Unit so you know if you're an act MP instead of having one person with five jobs you can go and get really good research done by people that specialize in that there's a comms unit so if you want to put out a press release or you get a request from the media we know we've got a couple of top comms people and then another person on digital that can do that for you if you want to get out around the country the Outreach you know will do you know coherent tours and engagement so you get out and talk to a lot of people instead of sort of wandering around in the middle and oh who sent me here and you know don't you know that no there's no no it turns out that there's two havelocks I'm in the wrong one you know um so you know that's that's really uh important um and the other one is the admin team who quickly renamed themselves the 18. I love it so they make sure that everyone's in the right place at the wrong time and the correspondence is sort of and so on um but the other thing it did so it's the ACT MPS get these specialized Services much higher level of support than if they just hired an EA in their own right but they also um you know are in this open plan environment you know I don't have an office um what it means is that our team uh instead of being off down a hall with you know relationship breakdowns and personal Grievances and all the stuff that happens all through Powerline um you know our folks are out in the open in a really positive environment and I think you've started to see that that um you know xmps people say oh I don't hear enough from your MPS well actually if you think about it um or must be at least 30 or 40 MPS came in in the 2020 intake you don't hear from any of them you hear from ours more than most yeah um and I think that reflects the fact that we created that good culture see that's a to me a difference that can make a difference for a culture and often with corporate CEOs I hear the saying hey James it's really Lonely at the Top I said okay tell me about your office setup oh you know I've got this beautiful corner office and I say okay door closed yeah I'm so busy so that's why it's lonely yeah so I love that you're like getting out amongst your people yeah rubbing shoulders hearing conversations that's modern leadership well it is and it's also you know it's it's it saves time if you catch Things Early um so it's you know while it's tempting to to close everyone off um chances are that you'll have to Circle back and fix stuff that you weren't aware of so I'd like to think and you know of course you never really know but I'd like to think that I'm more touch with what's going on because it's a real danger is that you know people stop telling you stuff they think oh I shouldn't bother David about that and you know I'd take all our folks aside when they start and I just say look we've got a policy I'm like a parent of teenagers you know if you're in trouble you can call me anytime um and you know not many of them have but I think it's useful to at least send that message from the output that you know I can't help you till I know everything 100 and in terms of dealing with pressure so I think of we've always got an ambush we don't know when ambushes will come but we've always got an ambush just around the corner it could come in the form of a pandemic an earthquake a disaster economic uh stress how do you respond have you got a way that you respond so that you're clear you're concise and you calm um so you're talking about you know natural or other man-made disasters that might confront New Zealand yeah yeah I mean I think what's really important for act and it's the strength of our party is that we do come from a clear sense of mission and that is that we want to cut back the amount of government activity in favor of civil society and business or private Enterprise activity so we want to shift from one bucket to the other two because we think they're more efficient and we think government has a way of being self-fulfilling so it often grows and eclipses other areas of activity in the society um so then when something like covert happens um you know having a principled conception of the role of government is really helpful so what should government do well I think the government was probably right to buy time but once it had done that initial seven week lockdown had become clear that the infection fatality rate was much lower than previously thought it had become clear that it was going to be really challenging for the economy to survive if it was locked down for a long period of course if you borrow 100 billion bucks and pump that and that can can work but you get inflation and so we were saying things straight away like the government needs to make clear rules of the game those rules need to be proportionate to risk so if it's safe to go to your Supermarket butcher it's probably safe to go to your local butcher in fact say through I would argue um you know the government should use the best possible technology and allow Innovation from the private sector if people can bring in a better test why shouldn't they be allowed to unfortunately in many many areas the government didn't have a clear conception of its own role it was my way or the highway that confiscated people's tests having previously banned them completely they didn't involve the GP Network or pharmacies or private business and the vaccine roll out anywhere near early enough or are you for that matter and as a result uh things weren't anywhere near as effective or efficient as they could have been and we paid a much higher price um to save the lives that we did um than we otherwise needed to so I think having a clear philosophical Mission and in this case an understanding of the role of government and where civil society and the private sector can be more helpful that allowed us to position you know I think and and quite sophisticated ways we put out four different policy papers um throughout the covert pandemic and I look at those papers now and I still stand by them I think they were right and David when we think about that you know we're going to have more challenges come along if you were to step in and to help lead this country to be prosperous to be connected to be thriving you know what would you do differently and you know what's in terms of leadership what are those values that you'll bring to the table well first of all I think in terms of values for the country um we need to start being a lot clearer about first of all there is an objective reality and there is universal Humanity there's not Different World Views there's there's one world and we're all part of it and we're all humans and we're all equally part of it I think second of all um we need to start being a bit more respective of success so for the last five or six years you've just heard constantly you know if you've done well if you're a farmer if you're a landlord if you're high net worth if you're high income if you own a home if you own two homes then you know somehow you've done something wrong and any effort or sacrifice that you made to get there well that doesn't count I don't think that that has been a good communication of cultural values for New Zealand so I think we could do a lot better in terms of underlying values that cause and effect are important then when it comes to a more technical level it goes back to that idea of what is the role of government so what are the things that if Government didn't do nobody else would and would be worse off for it I think there's a lot of stuff that governments currently involved in doing that it doesn't need to do and actually cost money twice once through funding the people to do it and second of all through the effects of it so I look at the regulatory space you know the government has laws and regulations up the Wazoo produced at an enormous rate and all it does is it actually reduces New Zealand's Prosperity because people find themselves spending more time in compliance activity less time and productive activity and we're poorer as a result I mean early childhood education centers just a classic example you know they tell me they get a weekly update on the new rules the ministry has made they have to open with 303 rules to comply with every day they have to keep a record of every bit of food that has been given to kids for three months um and you just have to ask yourself you know is that actually the best use of people Simon is it yielding benefits well probably not um but you know in every area from farming to finance to construction to you know resource use we find ourselves tied up in Endless rules and Regulation and it's making us a lot poorer than we need to be so that's just one area I mean there's a whole other discussion around expenditure but just in the regulatory space we should ask you know is there a problem that won't be solved without the government making a law and does the government's proposed law have cost benefits that are exceed its cost uh if you start from that perspective I think we can make New Zealand a much more prosperous place next to me smile inside and I I hear pragmatism and Common Sense thanks we need that you know it's incredible so thank you got one last question for you sure so if we were to fast forward way into the future many years it's your last day here on Earth you know that it's your last day someone very young maybe it's a grandchild or someone that you've got a lot of time for and that you love they come into the room and I say David how do I go about leading my life on purpose what would you say to them well I think you have to really sit down and think hard about what your values are um so you've got to be mindful of first of all what works for you um but that should be pretty strongly rooted in the impacts it will have on other people um so you know I actually have a if I've got it here little card that I carry that's probably quite useful and it just says speak well of others so you can recognize the best in each person use my time on Earth to leave the planet and people better than I found it be self-aware and take responsibility from actions be kind to myself today and make decisions to come to my future so that's um that's what I carry and I don't claim just for anyone who's wondering to be perfect at this um you know in fact the reason that you have goals like that is that you often don't achieve them um but that's the whole point you're supposed to stretch I love it well David thank you so much for taking the time to connect and best of luck over the coming months thank you oh thank you cheers thank you hey guys if you enjoyed the content today please smash that subscribe button below all and if you want to become part of my community I've got an amazing free 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Channel: James Laughlin

Views: 45,613

Keywords: How to disrupt the status quo, How to lead New Zealand, How to be a good Prime Minister, How to be the leader of ACT, How to lead a nation, How to create change, how to empower people, why should we empower people, how to lead local communities, thinking exponentially, how to think like a winner, high performance, leadership lessons, learn about leadership, how to lead from the heart, the art of leadership, James Laughlin, Lead on Purpose, transform your life

Id: rkHxljMLOGE

Length: 28min 39sec (1719 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 24 2023