WORSE. >> GARRETT HAAKE WITH THAT REPORT. A SOURCE TELLS NBC NEWS, ATTORNEY TODD BLANCHE WILL REPRESENT TRUMP AT TODAY'S HEARINGS. IT'S NOT CLEAR WHO ELSE MIGHT REPRESENT THE FORMER PRESIDENT. JOINING THE CONVERSATION, WE HAVE DAVID RHODE AND ANTHONY COLI. HE WAS THE TOP SPOKESMAN AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE UNDER ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND. ALSO WITH US, NBC NEWS PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN MICHAEL BESCHLOSS. >> MICHAEL, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT TODAY? >> WE ARE LOOKING AT SOMETHING WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAD TO EXPECT IN HISTORY. I LOVED WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT A LITTLE BIT EARLIER, THE FACT THAT -- LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. THE LAST 70 YEARS. REPUBLICAN PARTY, AT LEAST STYLED ITSELF AS THE PARTY OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND LAW AND ORDER. WHEN DONALD TRUMP BECAME PRESIDENT, 2017, THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE STUPID, SUCH AS MYSELF, WHO THOUGHT THAT ONE RESTRAINT ON DONALD TRUMP SINCE THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT PUT ENOUGH RESTRAINT ON PRESIDENTS WHO SEEK POWER, ONE RESTRAINT MIGHT BE THE FACT THAT REPUBLICANS WOULD SAY, WE'RE THE PARTY OF LAW AND ORDER, WE'RE THE PARTY OF NATIONAL SECURITY, WE WILL RESTRAIN OUR PRESIDENT FROM DOING CERTAIN THINGS. NOT ONLY DID THAT NOT HAPPEN, BUT LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENED IN RECENT MONTHS. JUST AS YOU AND THE OTHERS IN THE GROUP WERE SAYING. 70 YEARS AGO, DWIGHT EISENHOWER PUT NIXON ON HIS PARTY. HE DID THAT BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ESSENCE WHAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS. FEW ARE WILLING TO OPPOSE THAT. LARGER PICTURE -- I WILL SAY THIS BRIEFLY. FIRST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY FEDERALLY INDICT AND CHARGED TODAY. NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE. ALSO TO BE ACCUSED OF VIOLATING THE ESPIONAGE ACT. CAN YOU IMAGINE DWIGHT EISENHOWER LYING AND TAKING DOCUMENTS BACK TO GETTYSBURG, LYING TO THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT THEM, HOLDING THEM BACK AND AT LEAST RAISING THE QUESTION, DID HE SHOW THEM TO FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS OR SELL THEM? YOU COULDN'T HAVE IMAGINED MOST PRESIDENTS EVEN THINKING SUCH A THING. >> IT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY MOMENT, A LOW MOMENT FOR THIS COUNTRY THAT DONALD TRUMP -- >> HE DOESN'T DENY HE TOOK THEM. HE DOESN'T DENY THIS. AND YET REPUBLICANS STILL CONTINUE TO BACK HIM. >> RIGHT. NONE OF HIS DEFENDERS DENY IT. THEY JUST POINT AND ENGAGE IN WHAT ABOUTISM. THE REPUBLICANS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE PARTY OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND LAW AND ORDER. YOU HAD THE SENATE AND HOUSE DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OVER THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS TO HOLD HIM IN CHECK. STILL NOT DOING ANYTHING. IT'S CRAZY OUR FOUNDERS ACTUALLY SET UP A SYSTEM WHERE THEY FORESAW A WOULD-BE TYRANT BECOMING PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THEY NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS IMAGINED THEY WOULD HAVE A CONGRESS COMPLIANT TO THE TYRANNY. WE HAVE A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS COMPLIANT TO AN EX-PRESIDENT'S STEALING OF DOCUMENTS. IT'S CRAZY. ANTHONY, LET'S TALK ABOUT TRANSPARENCY. I WAS SURPRISED THAT THE JUDGE IS NOT GOING TO ALLOW PHONES, NOT GOING TO ALLOW RECORDINGS, NOT GOING TO ALLOW AUDIO EVEN OF WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE THERE. WHY? >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. MY HOPE IS THAT ONCE THIS TRIAL GETS UNDERWAY AND JUDGE CANNON, A LOOSE CANNON IF YOU WILL, JUDGE CANNON TAKES A MOMENT AND RECOGNIZES THIS EXTRAORDINARY MOMENT THAT BE ARE FACING IN AMERICAN HISTORY. I THINK WHAT IS CRITICAL -- DAVID AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS EARLIER. WHAT IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL IN THIS MOMENT IN TIME IS THAT FACTS REMAIN FRONT AND CENTER. MY HOPE IS THAT ONCE WE GET TO THE TRIAL, ACTUALLY HAPPENING, A LIVE AUDIO RECORDING WILL BE ALLOWED, WILL BE ACCESSIBLE TO THE PRESS AND THE PUBLIC, THAT WILL GO A LONG WAY OF ENSURING ACCOUNTABILI, KEEPING THE FACTS FIRST. AND I THINK PUSHING BACK ON SOME OF THE MISCHARACTERIZATION WE HAVE SEEN FROM REPUBLICANS THAT STARTED EVEN BEFORE, JOE, THE INDICTMENT WAS UNSEALED. >> RIGHT. >> DAVID, LET'S TALK ABOUT JUDGE CANNON. YOU ARE WRITING A PIECE ABOUT HER. MOST EXPERTS OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS HAVE COME ON, SHE WAS A TRUMP-APPOINTED JUDGE, RAN INTERFERENCE FOR HIM THAT WAS SHOT DOWN BY AN APPEALS COURT. THE SAME THING COULD HAPPEN HERE, COULD IT NOT? IF SHE MAKES RULINGS THAT ARE OBJECTIONABLE, THEY WILL BE SHOT DOWN BY THE CIRCUIT COURT. ARE THE CONCERNS OVER HER PRESIDING OVER THIS CASE WELL FOUNDED OR NOT? >> I THINK THEY ARE GIVEN THESE PAST THINGS. SHE WENT OUT OF HER WAY TO BACK TRUMP'S ARGUMENTS. SHE INSERTED AN ARGUMENT HE HADN'T MADE, IT WAS DAMAGING TO HIS PERSONAL REPUTATION IF THE FBI SEARCHED HIS HOME. THE GOOD THING IS, THIS APPELLATE COURT -- I KEEP TRYING TO BE THE OPTIMISTIC VOICE. THERE ARE TWO TRUMP APPOINTEES ON THE APPEAL COURT. THEY TWICE OVERRULED JUDGE CANNON. BUT SHE HAS TREMENDOUS POWER. SHE CONTROLLED HOW QUICKLY THE TRIAL PROCEEDS. WILL THIS HAPPEN BEFORE THE 2024 ELECTION? SHE OVERSEES THE CHOOSING OF ALL THE JURORS. SHE WILL DECIDE WHICH EVIDENCE THE JURY HEARS. >> WOW. >> IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY MOMENT. ONE ANALYST TOLD ME, THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT CRIMINAL TRIAL IN AMERICAN HISTORY. I WANT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC TO TRUST OUR COURT SYSTEM. I GAVE ANTHONY A HARD TIME WHEN HE WAS THE SPOKESPERSON FOR MERRICK GARLAND, BUT I AGREE AN AUDIO WOULD BE GREAT. IT WOULD BE GREAT IF PROSECUTORS WOULD REQUEST A LIVE AUDIO FEED. THE MORE INFORMATION THE AMERICAN PUBLIC GETS, THE BETTER. >> TO UNDERLINE HOW BADLY JUDGE CANNON MISHANDLED HER ASSIGNMENT BEFORE LEGALLY, I JUST WANT TO READ, AGAIN, JUST QUICK EXCERPTS AND CONCLUSIONS FROM THE 11th CIRCUIT, WHICH WE SAID IT BEFORE, IT'S A REALLY CONSERVATIVE CIRCUIT. ONE OF THE MOST CONSERVATIVE IN AMERICA. THEY WROTE THIS. HER SPECIAL EXCEPTION, QUOTE, WOULD DEFY OUR NATION'S FOUNDATIONAL PRINCIPAL. WOULD DEFY -- JUDGE CANNON'S VIEW OF THE LAW WOULD, QUOTE, DEFY OUR NATION'S FOUNDATIONAL PRINCIPAL THAT OUR LAWS APPLY TO ALL WITHOUT REGARD TO NUMBERS, WEALTH OR RANK. THEY GO ON AND SAY THE LAW IS CLEAR. WE CANNOT WRITE A RULE THAT ALLOWS ANY SUBJECT OF A SEARCH WARRANT TO BLOCK GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATIONS AFTER THE EXECUTION OF THE WARRANT. THEN AGAIN, SPEAKING TO HER RULING, THEY GO, NOR CAN WE WRITE A RULE THAT ALLOWS ONLY FORMER PRESIDENTS TO DO SO. EITHER APPROACH, AGAIN TALKING ABOUT WHAT SHE SUGGESTS, WOULD BE A RADICAL REORDERING OF OUR CASE LAW, LIMITING THE FEDERAL COURT'S INVOLVEMENT IN CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. BOTH WOULD VIOLATE BEDROCK SEPARATION OF POWERS, LIMITATIONS. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HERE -- 11th CIRCUIT COURT, SHE MAY HAVE MISREAD THIS. MAYBE SHE WAS LOOKING AT SOME ADMINISTRATIVE LAW. NO. THEY SAY, HER VIEW UNDERMINES FOUNDATIONAL PRINCIPALS IN OUR CONSTITUTION AND IN OUR COMMON LAW. NEVER, IN ALL OF MY YEARS, READING OPINIONS, I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY JUDGE EVISCERATED TO THIS EXTENT. >> EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER LAW. IT'S THAT SIMPLE IN TERMS OF THE AMERICAN IDEAL. THEN THAT OPINION, AGAIN, WAS WRITTEN BY TWO TRUMP APPOINTEES. >> REALLY CONSERVATIVE JURISTS. >> OUR SYSTEM CAN HANDLE THIS. THERE CAN BE CORRECTIONS MADE. TO BE FAIR TO HER, SHE COULD BE HUMBLED BY THIS. SHE COULD TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH, LIKE IT OR NOT, THIS TRIAL WILL DEFINE HER CAREER, HER LEGACY. >> SHE UNDERSTANDS THE 11th CIRCUIT, THE VERY CONSERVATIVE 11th CIRCUIT -- I PREDICTED THIS BEFORE. I KNOW SOME JUDGES ON THE 11th CIRCUIT. THEY ARE VERY CONSERVATIVE BUT YOU DON'T MESS AROUND WITH THEM. >> THAT'S RIGHT. WHAT SURPRISED ME NOT JUST ABOUT THE STRONGLY WORDED -- THE STRONG WORDS OF THAT OPINION, BUT HOW QUICKLY THEY DECIDED THIS. RIGHT? IT DID NOT TAKE MONTHS OR YEARS FOR THEM TO DISMISS JUDGE CANNON AND TAKE THE RULING AWAY FROM HER. >> ANTHONY, YOU TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE MISINFORMATION THAT'S BEEN OUT THERE, EVEN SINCE BEFORE THE INDICTMENT WAS UNSEALED. ONE OF THE THEMES WE HEARD, THE NEWS CAME OUT THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAD BEEN INDICTED, IS THAT THIS IS JOE BIDEN HIMSELF TARGETING HIS POLITICAL OPPONENT. THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IS CALLING IT ELECTION INTERFERENCE. SORRY TO TAKE YOU BACK TO REMEDIAL CLASSES. BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO ESTABLISH HOW THIS WORKS. HOW THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS SEPARATE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AND HOW EVEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HIMSELF SEPARATED HIMSELF FROM THIS BY APPOINTING A SPECIAL COUNSEL. >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. I WAS AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR WHEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MADE THIS DECISION TO, NUMBER ONE, APPOINT A SPECIAL COUNSEL AND, NUMBE TWO, TO CHOOSE JACK SMITH. HE DID THAT TO ENSURE INDEPENDENCE AND ACCOUNTABILITY. I THINK TO ALSO REASSURE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT WHATEVER DECISION WAS REACHED IN THIS CASE, THAT IT WAS INDISPUTABLY DETERMINED BY THE FACTS AND THE LAW. FAST FORWARD NOW NINE MONTHS LATER, WE SEE IN BILL BARR'S WORDS, OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE, DAMNING EVIDENCE. THERE'S NOT A HINT OF POLITICAL INTERFERENCE HERE. I WILL SAY ONE ADDITIONAL THING ABOUT SPECIAL COUNSEL SMITH. HE SPENT ALMOST HIS ENTIRE CAREER AS A PART OF DOJ'S CAREER WORKFORCE. HE WAS NOT SOMEBODY LIKE ME WHO WAS A POLITICAL APPOINTEE AND COMES AND GOES WITH A POLITICAL ADMINISTRATION. HE DOESN'T HAVE A POLITICAL BONE IN HIS BODY. THERE ARE
