David Paulides 2017 Missing 411 January 31 ,2017

most credible books about the search for truth about Bigfoot and that search led him to something entirely different a different kind of mystery that is represented in now three volumes of his book missing for one one this latest one North America cases and beyond Dave great to have you back on the show hey George thanks for having me I don't want to dwell too much because I want to talk primarily about your book but we have to talk about Bigfoot and the DNA study I should remind our listeners that you were one of the instigators at this you helped collect the samples you went out and look for somebody to conduct the DNA search you settled on you and your partners settled on Melba Ketchum talk to me in general reaction about the study results and and perhaps more importantly the reaction of the Bigfoot community to the results because it's been it's been all over the map but in particular has been pretty harsh you know it's it's mixed bag just like you said I think that the people that are making derogatory comments I would say probably ninety percent of them haven't read the study and that's unfortunate the the study is found we got over a hundred different samples we were the group that brought in other groups to help us bring samples in from throughout North America we had nuclear DNA and mitochondrial DNA that was accumulated we had three different labs do the testing it wasn't one lab we had several ph d--'s write the paper it wasn't one we've had some comments from some people in the Bigfoot world that i was shocked that they would say something like they did and I think that we've ruffled some feathers of many many old-timers out there because they've lived in a world where Bigfoot was an ape and for the people who don't understand this there's really just two factions that either believe it's a human based creature or it's an ape or a gorilla and if you look at all of the older researchers that have been around 4050 years the centerpiece of their books is Apes in the north or apes and North America etc etc and just to bring some reality to this there's never been any April gorilla bones never any ape or gorilla hair ever found anytime anywhere in North America and wild if you talk to any Native American group or First Nations group in Canada they all believe Bigfoot Sasquatch is a human every tribe states to human many tribes in the Pacific Northwest that I've written about in the past say that they trade with them that they communicate with them this is what this was written in newspapers in The Oregonian way back in the 20s and the 30s now why these people seem to ignore all these facts I have no idea and when we first got into this realm of research we didn't have a dog in the fight we could have went any which direction it was just to get to the truth and part of that truth is accumulating DNA and having labs tested III don't believe that they liked the result and unfortunately many of the journals in the world seem to be less than honest and what I mean by that is that the PhDs that wrote this paper scientific white paper submitted it I was privy to the response from some of these journals the questions that came back from them were embarrassing in the least and criminal in the most and what I mean by that is that they asked absolutely stupid questions that were easily answered and completely addressed in the paper it was as though they never read the papers they never wanted to accept the paper and they never really wanted to review the paper so in dr. Ketchum's defense and the rest of the PhDs they never had a chance with many of these big journals well I you know I I should reck I don't want to say I told you so but I should let the audience know that you were kind enough and dr. Ketchum to share with me some of the initial results two and a half years ago and I was floored by the initial information that had come in the initial analysis but I suggested to you at the time that it would be pretty hard to get any journal to publish it even though the work was done as legitimately as possible and you know that's probably the sobering reminder when you step into a world as a group of amateurs as we are we're not academic community which is where most of these papers come from the journals review and most of the people that sit on the boards that review these papers are academic types as well so maybe it's because we were Outsiders maybe because the findings completely fly in the face of what science may believe is the evolutionary path of a human I don't know but it's very disturbing were you surprised by the results I mean you said you know you had an inkling that it was a human that's what the tribes had said all the way along but when you finally saw the DNA results were you floored I would say yes because some of the DNA there isn't answered by going through GenBank and and normally if we swab our mouth you and me we're going to see back thousands of years where we came from and our our path with this DNA it's it's highly unusual and I suppose that part of it was pretty surprising but in general you know when you have dozens and dozens of tribes singing the same song and saying that they've dealt with these beings for hundreds of years you know that that has to mean something you know there's been a lot of nitpicking in the Bigfoot community about the study a lot of it nitpicking about dr. Melba Ketchum herself for things that she said but I have yet to see any kind of a really solid scientific refutation of the results I've seen some allegations that must be contamination but really there are answers to that wouldn't you say I would think there would be and as as the people in this world know there's a professor named Brian Sykes from Oxford that took on a study and said he was going to be out with his results around Christmas time he didn't come out but now that he has our results and he probably understands the path that we took to get those results I would presume that was sometime in the next four to six months either Sykes will never come out with his study on Bigfoot DNA or it's going to come out and it's going to mimic what we have well that mimics what you have I mean that's that's that's a heavyweight back in yep absolutely talk to me about I will ask one more question on this dr. Ketchum we've had her on the program and I appreciated her coming on to tell us about the work and to defend it what's the relationship there now is it strained because I know you don't see eye to eye on everything and I don't know if she's if you are still on speaking terms or whether there's been harm caused to the overall cause by things that have been said you you want to tackle that or not well I'll say this that we are the group that went out to find someone to do the study and we went to three or four different academic institutions explaining that we have the specimens we have the DNA we need someone to do the genetics behind it George there wasn't one University that wanted to touch the topic so we had to change paths and we had to find a lab that had the background and the expertise that was willing to take it on and we weren't funded in with a deep well of money we were we were lightly funded so we needed somebody to do this on almost a pro bono basis and there were a few doctor Ketchum's the courtroom certified expert on genetic studies she's qualified in the Texas courts many times and she was one of those people that had an open mind about the topic and we went with her and she poured her heart into this and she succeeded where other people have failed and I think that that some of those people in that genetic world that have made these comments have tried to get to the core of this DNA and they weren't able to and I will say that it was Melba's undying attempt to understand the secret behind that genetics that allowed her and her diligence to get to the point of finding it so I will say I have the utmost respect for her for what she's done and she has been an M before the study ever came out we had talks and I explained hey this is what's coming I mean the reason other scientific people don't want to come into this Bigfoot world is it's a world that's filled with hate I mean there's so many Oregon and there's so many people that call themselves researchers and things they just want to belittle everybody it's very easy to say something negative about someone but it's very hard to say something positive and that comes out in this world and the attacks are endless and when a scientific person or an academic person outside looks in why would they ever want to take part in that and melt at least stepped into that world and she did a stellar job and for that I respect her immensely well I'll tell you I thought the UFO world was crazy but I've it's been an eye-opener for me about the Bigfoot world I mean there are obviously some very well-intentioned folks or a curious and open-minded but it seems like a lot of them are drowned out by people on the fringes who they're more interested in being right or being loud than they are in getting to the truth I think the most interesting part of the study is are the blind tests is that you and a doctor you submit the samples to dr. Ketchum she gives them to these high quality labs and doesn't tell them what they are and then the labs discover on their own and they're kind of floored by the results and they ask you know what the heck is this and then you have some of them once they find out what you're up to you can't use our name you you can't publish these results because then that is so telling I think it's amazing I you go into this thinking well scientists are in discovery they they want to find new things they want to be challenged they they want to be that person on the paper that finds a new entity in the world in reality I think it's just the opposite when it comes to Bigfoot and again it goes back to that craziness factor there's there's so much disturbance in the community that it almost it almost seems to us as though it's a manipulated process just to make everybody think it is full of craziness tell me this one last question then we move on where does the study go from here do you have something else in mind additional samples additional tests you know I honestly I've pulled back a lot from that Bigfoot world part of our edicts as an organization was to prove at a scientific level that the biped exists and I think we've done it whether anyone wants to admit it whether anyone wants to to study and take it to that next level personally I hope that another academic institution takes a look at this and says you know what there is something here let's engage let's get more specimens in let's write it at a different level who knows I do know for a fact that there are two universities out there that are at least looking at it and have people in the field so that's very promising that's good let's shift gears now what another reason why you're pulling back from the Bigfoot world is because you've got a heck of a mystery on your hands with the missing for 1/1 volumes vol 3 is out North America and beyond it's just as stunning as the first two I guess so to begin with maybe you can tell me are a lot of these cases from your radio appearances that people hear you talking about cases in various parts of the country and then hey there was one like that here let's send it to Dave oh absolutely and I've got to thank the readers and your listeners for opening our eyes to things that we probably could have never found did you suspect I'm sorry go ahead I was just gonna say it's hard to go out and cover entire area of North America on an archival search so when people call in or write in and say hey have you heard of this case we heard of that case it's great we appreciate it did you suspect all along that you were going to find cases outside of the US we had a hunch at the beginning but we weren't sure let's start with we're gonna be taking a break here in about four minutes or so let's start with the basics to read recap some of the basics so that those who have not heard you previously understand about the kinds of disappearances we're talking about first of all the numbers a general number that you know of so far how many at least 600 650 right now most of them in national parks and national forests and open spaces in North America tell me about the clusters so the first two books we identified 28 clusters were up to I think 34 now and those involved three or more people missing within geographical proximity to each other and how many clusters do you have I think we're up to 34 35 right now in North America what would be the top one yosemite usually how many cases there there's got to be at least 25 I remember my first reaction when you told me that the general topic and I thought to myself well gosh yeah people disappear in the wilderness in parks in forests they get lost they fall off a cliff they get eaten by bears what's so unusual about that walk us through some of the steps about the kind of characteristics that separate these cases from just a normal kind of a disappearance so any type of disappearance which is related to water and the waters suspect in the disappearance meaning i drowning they got float they got taken downstream those are not in the study any type of suicidal tendency is not in the study if there's any type of obvious criminal conduct meaning that the case is cross defied as a possible homicide that's not in it any type of animal attack is not in the study and how do we know about animal attacks search-and-rescue people they're professionals they know what to look for in these things they're not in the study it takes after reading thousands of missing-persons cases certain elements start to come out at you and they just they hit you in the face time after time you read the same thing and you start to say how could this be it's almost like it's a mimic of the other four cases in the same state and as an example in Pennsylvania between like 1930 and 1950 there were more kids missing in that state during that time than anywhere I've ever seen in North America and it's not even close and I wrote about that in the Eastern book so and the disappearances in those areas almost mimic each other many of them involve small children at a farm or in a forest they disappear most times they're never found a lot of times the people disappear with a canine many times if they disappear overnight bad weather comes into the area rain snow etc if people are found many times they're found in a creek bed or riverbed other times if they're found they're missing clothing or shoes if they're found an older person they can't or they don't want to remember what happened other times it's a disabled person to the point where they can't speak so they can't communicate what happened or it's a very young child and they can't speak at all berries swamps and boulder fields are three of the predominant things that keep coming up with missing people from the East Coast and the West Coast and again it's that clustering aspect if he went up through the middle of Northern California all the way the Canadian border that route of the Cascades has more people missing under unusual circumstances than I can ever tell you and it has more clusters of missing people up through that area than anyplace else I can imagine so those are some of the few there are other ones that that really jump out at you the fact that you know that they are the ones that are found either bodies or found alive are found in areas that have been searched repeatedly in your book you mentioned one case where the searchers had walked right over that spot 50 times or more and not found them it's as if they're taken somewhere and then redeposited or little children who are found miles and miles away impossible distances walking uphill talk about that for a moment well I'll tell you what we're gonna take a break here in about 30 seconds so maybe we save that how many cases do you mention in in the new volume how many how many are are new I think there's about 200 in there and what are they talk to me about how many countries you now cover well we we included stories from five countries predominantly Australia England Indonesia Iceland and France and the Canadian you knew there were going to be Canadian cases did you know there would be this many well if you look at the topography of North America you kind of imagine that if there is some type of criminal activity or there's some kind of consistency and disappearance it's not going to stop at the border so we kind of presume that it would be happening up north when we come back dave Politis i want to get into some of the other characteristics that make these these cases less than prosaic and then we'll get into specifics a case by case state by state country by country missing four one one with Dave Politis coming up after this on coast to coast am we're talking about Dave Politis back to talk about volume 3 of his monumental work missing for one one and I'll tell you there's a lot of really interesting cases in this new volume but one really jumped out at me it's the story of we'll call him John Doe that's the reference in the book a young child who went missing then was found alive and what's most striking about this story is his description to his mother and father about who he encountered during that time when he was missing it'll chill you to the bone we'll get into that in just a couple of minutes here on coast to coast am David want to spend a few more minutes sort of recapping for those who have heard this before and don't remember it and for those who haven't heard it why these cases are so weird there are a couple of characteristics that really jump out at you a one is about where the kids are particularly kids how far away they're found about that that's one of the most unusual aspects to this and when we first got into this we read just about every search-and-rescue manual you could find and when professionals go out into the field they set up grid patterns to search for people and it's based upon the topography are n based upon the age and the health of the person you're searching for and for a child say under 8 years zero 8 years old they're usually found within 2 miles 90% of the time usually within the first 4 to 6 hours well in the western book that I wrote I described a kid named David Allen Scott who was 2 years old and and I usually stop at this point when I'm talking to an audience and I say how many people in the room have have children and I say think back to when your child was two years old how far could that child walk without dropping from exhaustion and how fast could they move how quickly could they get out of your sight well David was with his family vacationing at a place called mono village kind of on the eastern side of the Sierras down near a city called Bishop and he disappeared from his family as he was down near a lake and everyone initially thought he went into the lake make a long story short they searched everywhere they finally brought in some soldiers and for some reason they started going uphill and they didn't go a little uphill they went way up hill and when you look at the valley that David disappeared in there's a trail that almost goes straight uphill in a zigzag fashion up up this mountain they went over the top of that mountain down into another another valley back up Parshall another mountain total 3,000 feet and they found him deceased behind a boulder they tried to interview the soldier that found him and they asked him if he had any injuries and the soldier said no comment I thought that was interesting but that one of the stories in the new book involves a boy named Clarence Murphy and he was vacationing in the central Sierras in a place called Camp Sacramento which is at about 6,000 feet the place where families go take their kids try next to the American River yeah that's a weird case that's just booked even yeah and Clarence was vacationing with with his mom he was in a sandbox at the camp and his mom just stepped away for a couple minutes and she came back and he wasn't in the sandbox and she he they had had a conversation and he said he would stay there and they searched initially all the searchers usually go to the river or they go to the lake and they search hard there and that's usually where kids end up dying and being found but in the cases here that's not where they're found that's not where they go and Clarence did the same thing that David did and whether it was against his will or with his will or whatever he went uphill again and I can tell you as an adult when you're at 6,000 feet and you have a choice between Cohen uphill over downhill you're gonna go downhill because it takes the wind out of you at that elevation and initially they search for two weeks they never found them and they search hard they brought in a tree they pulled out everything they could define this boy well fast forward from April 14th 41 14 months later to September 22nd 42 there was a deer hunter that was up a Ridgeline 2,000 feet uphill two miles from where Clarence disappeared he saw a shoe on the ground and a little child shoe and he he knew that somebody had disappeared in that area before and he went got a sheriff they started searching and they found little tiny bits of bones and they didn't find a full skeleton coroner made a determination based on a tooth that they found that it was Clarence and they made a determination that he died of exposure and exhaustion which is just ridiculous because there's no way they could have known no but he was in an area that would remind you a lot of Yosemite because there's a place there called Lover's Leap I've been in this area many times filled with just huge pieces of granite boulder fields it's a hell forsaken place great place for deer hunting and this hunter was on his horse and I think that's probably the only reason he he was there because it's so rugged you have cases of where little kids 5 or younger disappear into thin air and they're found hours later miles away right 8 9 10 miles or further in wilderness yes now there's there's a story out of Oregon where a boy disappeared he was found 12 miles away 11 hours after he disappeared over two mountain ranges in and over two or three different creeks and rivers and he had to have gone through fence lines he was found unconscious the next morning in a creek bed by a search group but what is the more interesting to that case and there are many others like this is that why would searchers be in that location it makes no sense at all there's no way in the world a search group would be that far from the scene unless they had some other kind of information I mean it's as if these kids in the case of children are picked up and transported some how far away they couldn't possibly walk that with that far under their own power I don't believe they do I mean it I have two kids and everybody I talked to about this there's no there's there's no way that could happen a name to your point earlier on about where kids are found many times they're found on the main trail the searchers are using and they're found unconscious sometimes laying on the trail laying on a boulder next to a trail but they're in a place that it would be impossible to miss them when you go out that next morning it's almost like they're put there to view or to or to find because they weren't there every day that the surgery went out another weird aspect is the the inability of dogs to follow a scent I think that was true in the Clarence case in that camp Sacramento absolutely they brought up multiple multiple canines in fact in every story in my books the canines failed to pick up a scent that eventually finds the victim sometimes they go a ways down the trail and then they lay down and they don't want to search or there's no more scent this past summer I was asked to talk at the largest group of search and rescue professionals in the world in Lake Tahoe it's called NASA or National Association of search-and-rescue professionals I gave him the kind of the 50 cent addition because I only had an hour in front of him but I gave him that outline of what we're doing and what the canines do there was a line out the door of these guys want to talk about the same things that data experienced but they thought they were just so isolated and unique and I've been around canines before in the police department when we searched and these dogs just live for the search for a search dog to just lay down at that time or not wanna track these searchers that had the canines they said it's one of two things either there's no scent there or it's extreme fear on the dog's side for some reason that we can't comprehend another aspect that's pretty weird is that people just basically vanish into thin air you got kids who are out in the yard playing their their parents or 10 or 20 yards away and boom they're gone in an instant or adults who are hiking with a group there the last one online boom they're gone in an instant talk about that for a moment well there's an interesting case in this new book about that exact incident and it involves a boy named Jamie Bordenkircher two years old disappeared June 12 1965 North Shore Lake Tahoe and right away for the people that know that area it this isn't down in the populated area by the lake his family had a summer home up above Kings Beach on kind of an isolated Road almost to the back of the wilderness just almost less than a mile mile from the Nevada border and Jamie's parents lived in Butte County up in Northern California they drove down they parked their car in front of the vacation home there's no other cabins around and there's a swing set in front of their house well the family's going in unloading their things and Jamie gets out and his brother says he goes to the swing set and he gets on the swing so he his brother goes in and is in the house less than five minutes comes back out the swing is still swinging and Jamie's gone and nowhere to be seen and the family got frantic looked everywhere found nothing huge search that went on for weeks and for some reason the canines on this one kept going downhill to the water of the lake and for the people who don't know this area it's pretty steep walk downhill you cross the road that perimeters the lake and there's a lot of homes down there and it's a very very busy highway that crosses that area so they brought in the Coast Guard they brought in everybody they searched everywhere they didn't find anything and the interesting aspect to this case is if you go north east from there there's a couple of disappearances in an area called slide Mountain a ski resort near incline village and on the Nevada side and there's also a disappearance of a girl back in the 1940s from an area on the borders Reno in that slide mountain area that's in this book so this is a four person child custer area that's evolving just in the last six months one other weird aspect is what happens to clothes in particular to shoes that is highly highly unusual and it's initially something that we were told well it could deal with hypothermia except the issue with this is is that it happened so quickly the hypothermia can't be setting and when these kids take their clothes off and many of the cases it's it could be within 200 yards of the point where they were last seen the clothes are off and they're gone sometimes the clothes are found and the shoes are found sometimes no clothes and no shoes are found and in many of the cases the kids are found and they're almost naked or they're found sitting down in a thicket without any clothes on and without any shoes on and what we're always wanting to know is what's the condition of their feet but obviously and the articles that are older etcetera they're not going to have these kind of notations but if the child walked two to four miles through the woods without shoes you know they can have some injuries on their feet there's no injuries on their feet they were carried there I know in the previous volumes you had instances where clothes were found it folded up or or laid out as if in a ritualistic fashion and I know in the new book you've got a case I'm trying remember it was but it's an elderly lady who was found wearing different clothes from when she disappeared yeah that's that's an interesting case from Central California a woman disappeared for she's a very wealthy lady she disappeared from a kind of a rural ranch and there was a lot of suspicion that the family was involved and a lot of inner riping going on and finger-pointing etc but they didn't find her for months and months and then somebody said that they saw they thought this lady picking berries off a berry bush in this remote location near Lake Berryessa and she was eventually found wearing overalls like men's overalls and shoes and she was found dead but where she was for the previous two months how she survived where she got the clothes there were a million unanswered questions with that case but in many ways they mimicked other elements that we see in these cases so that's why it was included I would like you to address for a moment the questions that are buzzing through people's heads that is why isn't it a bear or a mountain lion why couldn't it be drug smugglers or Hermits or mountain men living out there that are abducting people and taking them away somewhere and those are the first places everybody goes when they first hear me speak and and I like to say that when we're speaking here on the phone you're hearing probably less than 1% of the entire story and so I really don't want anyone to go anyplace in their mind that can reconcile these thoughts because once you read the books I have yet to find anybody that'll say hey this is just bogus everyone reads these and they they will see that there's a commonality here of elements in each cases in each of the cases now one of the things about animal attacks is that if somebody is attacked usually you have time to stream you have time to make noise and if it's an adult you're usually going to fight for your life and that fight is going to result in a huge disturbance on the ground hair blood tissue etc it there's going to be a crawl most like a major crime scene and dogs and canines are easily going to pick up that scent and track that down the reality is is that in all of these cases animal attacks have been excluded and at them men excluded by me they've been excluded by search-and-rescue or by the law enforcement agency that to win the case same thing for people say drug smugglers out in the national forests I mean dogs could follow that scent as well if they were responsible oh for sure and you know the last thing that somebody who has a meth lab or somebody who's growing weed the last thing they want to do is do something that's gonna bring any law enforcement to the scene they don't want to cause any disturbance they don't want to they don't want to do anything that's gonna bring any awareness to what's going on there think about that and if it's an adult and they're gonna try to take you where are you gonna go and it goes back to well the canine is going to be able to track you as well and it's going to be able to track scent and if you have a meth lab or you have a drug marijuana grow they're the flyovers are going to they're just going to be in the area to such an immense degree they're going to found they're going to find it it's going to be revealed the idea that somebody's in the woods abducting people has been brought up in the past and I don't want to point this at the National Park System because it's an unfair allegation but all I will just say it is that some people have heard me talk on the radio and say well maybe there's a serial killer that's moving around park-to-park and killing people the reality is when you read these stories it's essentially going to be an impossibility based on the facts and the stories yeah it has to be it's a serial killer who doesn't leave tracks doesn't leave a scent has never been caught leaves no clues exactly well said in your new book I mean the new volume a lot of the law enforcement folks go as far as to say we don't think this is a normal disappearance this was a kidnapping of some sort they don't take it as far as you do because they don't have the database you do but they think it was a kidnapping just because of the circumstances that you're describing well even going back to the Bordenkircher case in North Lake Tahoe it had been 4050 years now since Jamie disappeared in 2007 his mother gave an interview and in it she said well you know original I think everyone tried to get me to believe that he drowned in the water the more I look at it is I believe he was abducted and when you look at the cases in their totality and you start to read the opinions of law enforcement and adults involved loved ones you will see the word abduction in there many many many times boy well and it ends it has to be frustrating for these law men to be out there often with so many resources with hundreds of people searching to go through an area almost arm and arm and and not be able to find something and then have the the body or the the missing person appear in an area that they'd walked over 40 50 or more times and I think the public sometimes gets a numb to disappearances especially children when a child disappears in the wilderness the forest or on a farm or a ranch the idea that they're not going to be found should not be really in our vocabulary and when you talk to searchers they're going to tell you we're going to stay until we find that kid and most of the searchers probably 95 98 percent of them are volunteers and when I was in lake tahoe that's what it was there were all these people here voluntarily spending their own money and they're all to own time to get trained and they have a passion for doing it and kids that disappear can't go that far they can't travel that fast and if you start to think about those two criteria and they usually the number of resources that are at people's disposal meaning you're gonna put helicopters and planes in the air with their forward-looking infrared radar to see a heat signature on the ground well son of a gun in all of these cases flare fails yet there are so many cases where children disappear and FLIR works Dave when we come back we're gonna take a break here I want to talk more about the use of FLIR and I want to when we come back yet into this case of John Doe because in some cases kids are found alive and the stories they tell are chillin much more to come here on coast to coast am we are rockin and rollin with my guest Dave Politis who the third volume of his book missing four one one is out and it's it's incredible it's chilling it's spooky scary if you are familiar with the first two volumes or you've heard our interviews with Dave you know that in many of these cases most of these cases in fact the people who are found there they're not found or they come back and they're unable to explain where they've been there either stunned a lot of them have handicaps they can't speak or they're too young to express where they've been but in a handful of cases the people who are found alive youngsters in many cases are able to give clues to where they've been and and some of those clues are just astounding jaw-dropping we're gonna get into one of those the case of John Doe where he was and what he remembers from the time when he was missing right after this on coast-to-coast am dave polite is the new book missing for one one North America and beyond looks at new clusters also has fresh cases from clusters you've talked about before I seem to recall that and you did talk about Mount Shasta cases before but this new one this John Doe case missing child three years old is a jaw-dropper tell us the story well it's interesting because actually heard of this case years ago when it was evolving and the reason being this is one of those strange coincidence is that John Doe disappeared along a creek River that I used to fish as a kid and I'd probably been there at least 50 times and the area is world-class fly-fishing very very thick woods there's a couple real famous Hollywood types that owned hundreds of acres in the area it's just pristine wilderness great fishing what happened was is he was there with his family and happened on October 1st 2010 about 6:30 p.m. he disappeared and one of the things that I didn't state earlier on is that that late afternoon early early evening is the prime time for appearance anytime between what's a 2:30 and 6:30 or 7:00 at night is the time that these things seem to happen this area of this disappearance has a very long history of strange things I mean they people have said that their people called Lemurians that live beneath Mount Shasta there's been a history of Bigfoot sightings in this area there's been tons of UFOs flying around Shasta so and I've written about a cluster in my past western book about Shasta specifically a cluster of disappearances well this boys three years old he disappears from his parents they immediately call the sheriff a big search starts and they don't find him I mean they looked everywhere this area doesn't have a lot of low ground coverage it's a lot of big trees with a lot of open area underneath but near the rivers and things and some of the trails there is some shrubbery but not a lot so anyhow we fast forward five hours at about 11:30 at night they find this boy sitting in the middle of a bush and a thicket and he doesn't say anything he's taken home parents talked to him he's in sort of a stunned disbelief so finally the next day they get talking to him and they said well you know explain what happened because I really don't know he says I just kind of disappeared and well where did where were you and he tells this story that he is taken into a cave and he thinks it's underground and he says I know it's dark outside but when I'm in this cave it's I could see the entrance and it's light outside and he says that he's with a woman that looks exactly like his grandma and originally he thought it was his grandma but then he said that the in the cave there's a lot of other things that look like people but they're all robots and they're not moving and he says after a while he figures out that this woman really isn't his grandma even though she's really nice to him and very polite but he believes she's a robot as well she's got sparks around her hand or something like that yeah he made some kind of comment about yeah there was some kind of light or sparks or unusual light coming from her head and then he says that she was real nice until she started to get pushy and she took out some sticky paper and laid it on the ground and told him he had to poop on it and he told her that he didn't have to go and she got mad and he says now as I'm sitting there he says they asked him what else did you see there and he said he saw a lot of small guns and things around the outside perimeter of the cave and they all had a lot of dust on him so then then you kind of fast forward a little bit and the boy went to go spend time at that grandmother's house the following weekend and he tells the story to the grandmother well the grandmother then told us that three weeks before the boy disappeared the grandmother and her husband were at that exact Creek River spending the night and they actually woke up in the middle of the night because the grandmother felt a pain at the base of her neck and she had her husband look and there was a small bloody spot at the base of the neck and she says you know I don't know if it's related but I just wanted to tell you that I thought that was strange I happened to be there where the point he disappeared and he sees a grandmother and and I have this bloody spot on my neck I don't know what to think of it make a long story short the boys mind is developing fine he hasn't disappeared anymore but that is probably the most unusual story that I've ever heard about a small boy disappearing it's like granny had a DNA sample taken from her when she was there before I mean I only had two weird about it but that's what it sounds like that's that's what we thought how many other cases for those who hadn't heard your previous interviews how many other cases do you have where children are able to come back they're alive and they're able to give some kind of clue about where they've been I know you don't have any exactly like that but you do have some other versions of pretty weird tales you know it's very very unusual there are a very small group of cases where a child comes back or they're found and they tell unusual stories there's some from the East Coast where the person says you know I saw this giant thing standing behind a tree and it was kind of swaying back and forth and then I don't really remember much and and then you kind of found me other times there's a story out of I think was Arizona where three poor three kids disappeared from a picnic ground and they were gone for a day and a half and when they finally the searchers finally found them they walked up on him and the kids immediately went down and were hiding searchers walked up to him and said what are you doing why are you hiding he says we thought you might have been to eight people again wasn't there a girl who talked to us story about a talking dog yes and that's you really don't know what to make about some of these stories because this so outlandish you don't know what the what the belief in the UFO world you have what's known as screen memories or people who claim they've been abducted and I know I know you don't want to veer into that but they claim to have had some sort of an abduction and a screen memory is implanted into their head that what they saw wasn't it alien it was a big eyed owl that sort of thing it's almost like an implanted memory in some of these kids stories well you know one thing I tell people that are in the Bigfoot world and I tell law enforcement people who I talked to today is that I think one thing that's unique about our group is that we read everything we can get our hands on related to something like this and there was a guy named John Mack who wrote a book about UFO abductees and you read about the circumstances and what they find out from the individual during hypnosis and we've always thought that it'd be fascinating if we could get some of these people at a conference room and have them go through hypnosis and I think the similarities between them and them knowing that there's other people just like them out there it would be fascinating no but you haven't done that I've never had our regression you know I have it and the reason for that is is that when I first got into this a group of missing organizations had heard what we were doing and two of them got ahold of me and they're really nice people and they said just be careful Dave and when you make that approach on somebody who has gone through an incident like that they can easily take what you're doing the wrong way and that you're trying to profit from their loss and from their injury and a lot of people don't want to be talked to so kind of the stance that we've taken is is that if people want to talk to us absolutely we're going to open up and do everything we can on a few cases like the Dennis Martin disappearance the Great Smoky Mountains National Park we did approach his dad and we got a lengthy interview out of that but we're very careful about that yeah I can understand that maybe what you need is somebody who was abducted as a child who's alive now hearing this for the first time and needs to come forward and try to retrieve the memories of what really happened to him right that if that's the case folks give us a call let's go to talk about some of the new clusters that you discuss in this volume 3 Mount Rainier National Park I mean these are as good as stories that you've had in any of the books and I think our listeners up in Washington State are gonna be pretty pretty spooked by it go ahead and tell us a few of these tales well I think one of the best ones and we got there a Freedom of Information Act request we got the case file on this person and his name was Joseph wood jr. 34 years old disappeared July 8 1999 this is this person is unusual and in the thousands of cases we've reviewed this is only the second black man that I've ever written about that disappears under these under the criteria we've set down Joseph was a super super smart guy Yale graduate Eagle Scout he was an editor for a New York newspaper then he moved on with a publishing editor at a publishing company and he was in Seattle for a conference and during one of the days they had a break and so he decided to go to Mount Rainier and do some bird-watching he was an outdoor enthusiast and a burden Susi's and he went to a place called Longmire parking lot parked his rental car on a beautiful day and sit down on a very very large trail and started to hike up and it was a nice day there was still some snow on the ground and as he's walking up the trail he comes across another birdwatcher and they stopped and they talked to each other and they have a great conversation they kind of compare notes this guy says this is how far you can go up the trail and then there's going to be too much snow and it wasn't that much further and joe said good and they separated he walked further up that was the last time you was ever seen and again an established trail in good weather in the middle of the week broad daylight disappeared huge search what I tell people about Joseph is that not only was the a brilliant guy but he was also an Eagle Scout and I think that's the first Eagle Scout I've ever written about as well and Eagle Scouts are are trained in the outdoors they have to do good in their lessons otherwise they never reach that rank and you have to have a certain amount of common sense to reach that level as well and that area of Mount Rainier that he disappeared in isn't one of the most rugged areas of the mountain it's a it's a pretty mundane area and searchers were able to track down that witness he saw and he said there was nothing unusual was a great conversation it was upbeat we talked about the birds etc so anyhow after about a 10 day search the Park Service was ready to call it off and his family and a newspaper in New York called The Village Voice wrote an article about it his disappearance and again just like we've talked about earlier abduction comes into the scenario an abduction comes in because searchers and family members have a difficult time reconciling what happens to these people if somebody disappears chances are they're going to start dropping things when they get stressed so in Joe's case he might drop his book he might drop his map he might drop a backpack whatever he's carrying in these instances they find nothing it's it's so strange and in Joe's case they never found anything they never found his body they never found his coat books maps nothing and so a very very unusual case but as we sort of suspected about Rainier years ago the more we got into it the more strangeness went into it and when you talk about the abduction scenario you don't you don't really think about abductions on the side of the mountain or abductions when people are hiking you tend to think of abductions around parking lots maybe or around populated areas near a lodge but on a trail where there's only two cars in the parking lot Jose and the guy he saw on the trail the idea that an abduction is going to occur there almost unheard of and how that could it be of compound that could have been accomplished that's a million-dollar question and it wouldn't have been in the time of the year when wow weed was growing up on a mountain that wouldn't have been it and guaranteed there wouldn't be anybody with a meth lab on the side of the mountain because it's normally way way too cold so it's a big giant whodunit and yeah you had another disappearance on Mount Rainier a little girl this is a long time ago not as recent as that Joseph wood case but a little girl four year old girl who was found alive yeah and there are so many of those little kids say under the age of six or seven that vanish in that exact scenario that it's actually on our end it gets to be you get to be numb to it but the reality of it is when she disappeared she shouldn't have disappeared she was in close proximity to her parents and she's found again uphill from where she passed from where she was lost but her name was Marcella Rimouski back in 1950 she was four years old but I like to talk about things that are that are really really abnormal and there was a guy named Eric Lewis I don't know if you remember that one it disappeared in July 2010 57 years old absolutely phenomenal shape climbed as a career all over the world and was climbing with some super experienced climbers on the side of Rainier and this is they were doing some technical climbing high up they were pulling each other up and Eric was on the other end and all of a sudden the line kind of goes loose so they pull it up and the carabiner at the other end is there but there's no rope attached to it so they decide they'll go down and because of yelling form and they're not getting anything and they can't see him this and we're talking about nothing unusual here they're climbing the mountain the guys attached to the line he's over the side of the cliff he didn't fall there's no screaming or yelling there's nothing they looked for him they looked for him they called in the National Park climbing team this guy was never found and he was attached and they were starting to pull the rope the Rope went limp their carabiners attached to the other end Eric's gone and never seen again you say in the book that he was among the top 1% climbers in the world per the National Park Service climbers that were there they said he knew that mountain better than most of the most of the professionals at climate he would have had to a disconnected that kid the the rope himself on purpose almost yeah exactly it didn't break because it was never attached to make they said it made absolutely no sense I don't want to backtrack too much but I wanted to just to mention that they're one of the reasons I brought up the case of marcella that four-year-old girl we were talking about a moment ago is when she was found alive we had talked about clothing that was weird her dress was on backwards and it was something weird about the laces of her shoes exactly and her mother made that observation and said you know she doesn't even know how to dress herself that way and she doesn't know how to tie her shoes and they were tied in a way that she had never seen the entire thing didn't make sense but it didn't make some sense when you look at the clothing and the shoe you that we've seen on many other cases they're off or they're gone it's almost like some of these crazy abduction encounters that people report is that it's almost made to look ridiculous on purpose yeah so so that no one will believe it right we're gonna take a break in about a minute but I wanted to let's go to the other side of the the country the Adirondacks in New York you mentioned that as a new cluster area that you focus on in the book how many cases first of all I think in total there's there's at least eight maybe nine because I there were some in the Eastern book that first came out namely a small boy named Douglas leg who disappeared and tracking dogs did track him all the way around Lake Placid and back down the other side and I don't know if people remember that he disappeared on a on a some family acreage and completely under someone's watchful eye the boy was never seen again and the area he would have had to gone through and the high peaks of New York a normal man couldn't have made it and yet tracking dogs not only went north they went north way up over the top of some of these mountains and then back down around the other side of Lake Placid and then he was lost in the middle of a swamp that really started us to pay attention today Adirondacks and what was happening there welcome back to the Adirondacks there's a case of a guy named Steve Thomas that I want to talk about then we'll talk about some foreign country cases as well much more to come would Dave Politis author of missing four one one we're talking about Dave Politis author of missing four one one now out with volume three when we come back we talk about the Adirondacks maybe pop over to Florida and talk about some cases there the Sequoia National Park and then some foreign countries as well much more to come here on coast to coast am Dave Politis we'll get back to cases specifically the Adirondacks in a moment one thing we haven't touched on and I want to at least cover it briefly is the lack of cooperation from government agencies that's another really interesting aspect that this whole mystery is that you know the National Park Service the u.s. Forest Service those agencies that you would think would want to keep a list of missing persons just to figure out how many people might be vanishing from within there and their purview they don't they don't keep a list like that and they certainly are not very cooperative when it comes to sharing records are they no they're not and I think the audience needs to understand that why we went after the National Park Service from the very beginning is because they're one of the few groups that has a large law enforcement contingency that patrols wooded areas namely national parks and they have a wand forcement grip that's federally trained probably better trained in most municipal law small law enforcement agencies in the US and tend to go to federal law enforcement training center they're dedicated law enforcement people they don't pick up garbage they don't clean campsites they don't do those kind of things they are true professionals and they're assigned to the parks for patrol and a subcategory of that is they have special agents that are the detectives in the parks that do the follow up on criminal activity and missing people and when things get really complicated they call them the FBI and the FBI will take the case so we knew that these people had been trained at the highest level and law enforcement they know the needs for documentation they write quality reports I've read hundreds of them and these people are professionals so when we first asked them for a list of missing people from their park system and they stated that they didn't have any list we thought it had to be in the writing we were doing in the semantics of it and we resubmitted again and they said no we don't have these lists we don't keep track of missing people and I tell the audience of what I'm speaking is that you look at any website from any medium-sized to large Police Department in the nation and on that website there's going to be a section about missing people in that jurisdiction a lot of Sheriff's Office carry those information interesting part is you won't find that anywhere in the national parks and when you dig a little deeper they tell you that no we don't keep track of missing people inside of our parks and when you ask them why they say initially well we don't have the wherewithal to keep that information but we're planning a computer system in the future that's going to be able to do that and we will have that and that's where we were told four years ago they still don't have it I mean come on how hard is that exactly George now what I do tell and I actually put a poster up on the wall when I'm giving a talk and I say this isn't rocket science people with a piece of binder paper and a clipboard and you divide that binder paper into name date of disappearance location and the final disposition and there is your tracking mechanism for almost every Park in the nation and this isn't hard to do now one of the guys on our team has been head of one of the bigger law enforcement agencies in the US and when he was told that the Park System wanted to charge us 1.4 million for them to establish a list of missing people in their system and $34,000 for a list of missing people from Yosemite he said Dave guys you got to think about this if they want to charge you that much money and they want to take the heat for not maintaining a list as that is absolutely politically incorrect it must that heat must be a lot less than they take if they did release all that information to you Oh for example Yosemite you say that that is probably the number one cluster in the country let's say there's two dozen three dozen cases of missing people it might be it's probably a lot more but that you've been able to dig up the records about how hard is that to maintain a list of a couple dozen names it doesn't make I mean we try to rationalize it here it makes no sense at all I mean we could talk about thousands of law enforcement agencies in North America and Canada where you know when I know that missing people are something that everybody tracks everybody understands everybody can go to a site and they could pick it up National Park System doesn't it's like the mayor in Jaws doesn't want people to stop going in the water yeah it's a good analogy I I noticed in this in the new volume that you make a distinction that that I think is important because it further complicates things and that is that people are missing persons for a while and then the search ends and they give up and they are legally dead so they're taken off a missing persons list so it really it distorts the true picture of how many people are actually missing and that's a very confusing aspect to this entire situation the National Park Service has a classification called missing presumed dead and no longer missing now there are cases out there where saying adult disappears and the family has to get them to declare dead to get the benefits right so they go to court they get a judge to say okay we're gonna cost us five minutes deceased who's been gone for a year all of a sudden he's not on any records anymore either now as more time goes by it's harder and harder to find those files if there's nobody looking for you anymore basically you've been able to find the files because you go to newspapers databases online records things of that sort but not through any cooperation of the government it's very hard there I will say this about the National Park Service when when you take them by the hand and you walk them to the case and you give them the case name the location the time all of a sudden they come usually usually I say find that case there's a series of cases out of Crater Lake National Park and I was told that from say 1978 and 1992 all the cases were thrown away because they didn't have any place to keep keep them and I think in the day of microfiche and things that that's that's highly suspect but that's what they said there's a case right now of a girl that disappeared about two months ago in the Grand Canyon in Grand Canyon National Park school was actually from Colorado so she was on a month-long trip with a group floating down the river they stopped at an area where a small Creek comes into the Colorado they were camping in the middle of the night the girl disappeared the case is classified as a missing persons case and they all stated at the beginning I'll you know her body will come up she just fell in during the middle of the night well other people said no this girl's done this many many times she's a seasoned camper she knows where the river is in the middle of the night if she had to go to the bathroom she knows where to walk something else happened well it's one of those really unusual cases I have contacted the Park Service twice now and twice I've been refused and what they said was is that the case is still in process and they're still investigating again I go back to him and I say is there a straight missing-persons case they say yes but they're still not releasing the case yet it's one of those unusual things that happens every once in a while let's jump forward I mentioned about Steve Thomas this is a guy who went hiking with five of his friends in the Adirondacks northern New York and vanished what's unusual about that case was from 1976 this is this is one of those really fascinating cases where all of these guys were outdoors people they were on a break from a community college on an Onondaga Community College Steve was 19 years old and they were on the side of a mountain called Mount Marcy and they had stopped at a place called Hopkins lean-to to kind of spend the night put up their tents and have fun and it was the five buddies and their dog and as they're getting all their things together to camp out for the night Steve says hey I'm just gonna walk up this trail a little more I'll be right back I'm just gonna get my legs going again and he walked out of sight wearing a yellow rain slicker and last time anybody ever saw him he was in a good state of mind he was having fun nothing strange unusual to him physically or mentally he didn't have any disabilities and about 10:00 p.m. they started to get really nervous because bad weather was coming into the area when rain and some light snow the guys got out walked up the trail a little bit yelling form screaming for him looking for him nothing they came back into their tent and as they originally tried to leave they tried to bring the dog with him and the dog wouldn't leave the tent and when they came back to the tent the dog was whining and would not move from the inside of the tent now flash forward a few weeks Steve had a brother named Bob Thomas and Bob actually committed his life to trying to find Steve and the Rangers in that area said Bob Thomas knows Mount Marcy better than anybody and the following summer after Steve disappeared Bob and his dog were out searching and they actually found the body of another climber named Buddy Atkinson and the Doug that his dog started to dig through the snow and they found this guy who's been dead for a couple years that's how thorough Bob and the search group was in looking for Steve Steve's never been found he's one of a group of people in this area of the Adirondacks that it disappears is missing you find nothing one thing about this case that we haven't talked about before that is bright colored clothing and I've written about that in the other books and there seems to be a correlation to pee people who wear bright colors and they disappear yeah that's that's a pretty weird aspect let's jump to I promised that we'd talk a little bit about foreign countries Canada you you've got some amazing cases all the way across from British Columbia to Nova Scotia which which of the Canadian cases do you think are best exemplify this mystery and jump out at you you know there there's a case that of out of the western area of Canada involving a lady that was a a lookout tower fire spotter and her last name was Stewart Stephanie Stewart she's she was an older lady she was in her seventies she'd been doing the job for decades and she was in the tower this is an isolated Road up and down to it this is I wrote about in the western book and in the middle of the night she disappeared and somebody came to sear and she was gone and Stephanie again was an older person in good health but she wasn't the type of person that could really or would really get out and start moving around she had water on the stove what was missing were the most unusual things her blanket and her alarm clock in her room and some people may say well you know a rogue killer drove up that road kidnapped her and took her but from a law enforcement perspective that would be the last thing that a serial killer or a murderer would do because this road going up there's like six or seven miles long it's a dirt road one way up one way down if you're a killer you don't want to be taking a road like that because there's too much of a chance someone's going to see you and spot you and identify you and it it just doesn't make sense they searched for her for days and they never found anything all of a sudden after that the Canadian Natural Resources group started to change the way they did things with look out people and you know we started to look at lookout towers in the United States as well and there's a lot of weird things that have happened around those towers at night and during the day that I can't say directly related to Stephanie's disappearance but they go to show that there's a lot of unusual events that happen around them what is the level of cooperation that you get from Canadian authorities or have you even tried to see if they have records do they keep records about disappearances in in parks for example that's a great great question and they have something very similar to our Freedom of Information Act but they only respond to Canadian citizens luckily I got a couple of buddies that are Canadians and they do the dirty work force and phenomenally they don't carry those records either let's jump to Australia down under what made you suspect that that would be a place where this this kind of activity takes place and and give me a representative case from Down Under well you know Australia in some ways there's a lot like the u.s. they have topography that's really different and right away when the first books came out there was a lot of interest from Australian residents and I got a lot of emails and things and probably got sent maybe 50 cases and 48 out of the 50 you didn't qualify and didn't meet the criteria there were a couple that did one involved a boy who was climbing a mountain and on this mountain there's a lake that's within sight and not that far away he goes on a cell phone and he he calls and he says I need some assistance and he doesn't it isn't real clear what's wrong but he's on this mountain and and then the phone goes dead and searchers go out they searched the mountain and they they don't find anything and days weeks go by they find this guy on the side of the mountain in a boulder area deceased and he had water with and when he made the climb he didn't have water with him at the time and they stated that he died of exposure and dehydration and honest to gosh at the bottom of this mountain probably less than a quarter of a mile away is the biggest lake in the world in this part of the country it doesn't mean any sense at all he was he was in perfect health it it's a very very strange case but nobody that was sending me this information believed the facts about it I know I'm jumping all over the world here I were trying to cover some ground I can't think of two countries more different than Iceland and Indonesia the one thing they have in common they both start with I but you've got cases in both of those countries do you want to touch on either of those okay I'll tell you about the Iceland case and that's that's not necessarily a missing-persons case it's a societal belief that that I was told about and I looked into and it was there's a phenomenal concurrent element there between US and Iceland that being is that I've stated in many of the books that there is correlation between people distal tearing around boulders in boulder field etc and I couldn't put my finger on it somebody sends me a story that people in Iceland believe that spirits live in boulders and these spirits come out of the boulders and they do things meaning that let's say you lived in an isolated area and you kept your hammer out they would take the hammer and they would move it or they would take tools and they'd disappear sometimes if you disturb them the wrong way they might do bad things well I looked into it and there's there's a group that actually made a movie about this and it it's on YouTube I named it in the book I could never even pronounce it but the Icelandic people believe in these spirits so much that when they build roads they don't displace large boulders they'll make the road go around them even if they could be moved in some cities the boulders have names and addresses this it's phenomenally I read this I couldn't believe it because it fits in with people disappearing around boulders doesn't make sense there's not there's not that many places you can go yet these people have known about these spirits that come out and do strange things mischievous things and sometimes bad things and they've had this belief system for hundreds of years I know it seems people can cross that off and say oh it's just folklore but as Jacque Vallet is written about folklore in connection with UFO cases and beings fairies trolls leprechauns the things of that sort the modern equivalent they become aliens you know and I is there a connection is there something comparable say and the Indonesian disappearances well again we go back to the bright colors I was on a show with whitley strieber and whitley he had read my books and in fact willie writes the back cover for my current book but he said Dave you know I read your book and I immediately stopped thought about cases in Indonesia where people had disappeared and the villages in this area always tell people not to go into the woods wearing bright colors otherwise you're going to be taken and it turns out that there was a guy from Europe that was living in this Sulawesi village - validated everything that Whitley was saying and that there's been a whole string of people that have disappeared and they didn't know about there were visitors and things didn't know about this bright-colored a abduction scenario that is related it was very strange you're very careful to not jump to conclusions your your conclusions in this new book is like one page long but I'm gonna press you a little bit when we come back to see if your your thinking has evolved on this at all we'll be opening up the phone lines a lot of you have been on the on the phones ever since Dave Politis came on the air tonight so we'll get to your calls coming up here soon on coast-to-coast am we're talking about a dark topic tonight with Dave Politis my guest I remember after his first appearance to talk about volume one of missing for 1-1 I wanted to sort of put it to a test with government agencies give me the same response they gave to him and sure enough when we filed Freedom of Information request with the National Park Service and u.s. Forest Service here in Nevada to check out missing persons lists we found out that those agencies don't maintain such lists here and we're not all that cooperative about the cases that we knew to exist when we come back I have one more question for Dave about what it might be we've heard a lot about what it isn't I don't think he's going to give us a solid answer but we'll give it a try and then we'll open up the phone lines with your questions much more to come on coast-to-coast am Dave we talked a lot tonight about what it isn't and as in previous appearances when you've been on the show what it isn't are you any closer to saying what it is I mean at a minimum I guess you can say these aren't just disappearances that people seem to be taken by something or someone and not only taken but transported somehow I mean that's basic right so not my words I'll leave it in the words of the parents and in the words of law enforcement the vast majority of the time to go back to abduction abduction my child was abducted and in them in this latest edition I write about it because there's a section where there are multiple disappearances in a small confined area meaning two people disappear and in close geographical proximity to one another this happened in the 1950s in Yosemite to students at the University of California at Berkeley grad school students they didn't know each other they weren't taking the same classes and they didn't live in the same building one disappeared I think it was in June during summer vacation another one disappeared three months later the guys didn't know each other the parents didn't know each other they were both camping in the valley and they both went for short walks after the second one disappeared the families found each other because they were both demanding more searchers they want the part service to expend more resources etc etc both parents finally got together and they wrote a letter to President Eisenhower and they asked for special warfare troops to come into the park and search and their words they felt that their kids had been abducted and therein lies the continual theme in these that people understand their kids they understand the situation they understand the psychological aspect of of their family members and law enforcement and them come to this determination more often than you would ever believe that still doesn't tell us what it is but like you're reluctant to point a finger I will say this because a lot of people point the finger at me and they say you I got an email about six months ago you know you know exactly what a 'king meet these people and you're doing a disservice to society but not naming it so let's go back for years when we first started this I might have thought it was a back then in the last four years I've got no less than ten emails that are like doctorate dissertations that's how long they are very well thought out very sincere they give a multitude of things I know nothing about I'll just name one reptilians I know nothing about this I've never met anyone that's saw one but I have no less than probably 50 emails of people saying this is what's taking people you also hear stories it must be like flying dinosaurs something from the sky well there's a historian in this book I'm sure you read it in Nevada where a boy walked up supposedly walked up into an area where an Indian tracker was on a Ledge it's like a 400 foot cliff and he crawled and he should have fallen an end up finding this boy and like a crow's nest in the middle of nowhere off a cliff on an isolated mountain in the middle of Nevada it makes no sense at all I mean it could be that this is a mystery that's not solvable or if it is solvable it's not an answer we're gonna want to hear there you go that's that's small consolation or comfort to the families of the who-who are still missing I will have one more story for you as in the Western book there's a story about a guy named Alfred Beale hearts in 1938 he was visiting Rocky Mountain National Park with his family they were walking about thirty-five feet above a river and they said that their boy was right behind him he was five years old they turn around he's gone Paul park service immediately they get approval from the Department of Fish and Game to block the river that's the place that everyone always goes they went to the river they didn't find him and there's there's pictures in the book of this river and there's probably five hundred guys searching this river in a in a one-mile stretch they searched everywhere they didn't find them as the search is going on 3,000 feet further up into the park and up in elevation there's a husband and wife that are coming out of the high mountains and they're sitting and they're resting and they hear any they hear something 300 feet above them and they get out their binoculars I made look and they see this little boy sitting on a Ledge in this cliffy area and they can't believe what they're looking at they're saying what parent would let their child do this this is insane and any other I don't know what kids missing or anything and they Pike down trying to get into the basin and they see thousands of people milling around they still don't think anything they drive down into Denver next day in the paper is Alfred's picture and they say oh my gosh this is the boy we saw up on the cliff they drive back to the park they tell the park people Park people don't believe them they split them up and they actually think they played some part in the abduction and they're interviewing them and they tell the same story and they said well that's impossible a kid could not get into that area it's going to take us sending 20 guys up there with ropes Pitons carabiners because it's so difficult terrain and plus you know what it's called Devil's nest needless to say they send a whole group of Rangers up there they search for two days they didn't find anything never never did no never was found I'll touch on one more thing and I promise I go to the phone lines I think that the case that jumps out at me from last time you were on the program is the the case where it's a disappearance a very strange disappearance for multiple reasons and then these families see Green Berets that suddenly appear in the area as if searching for something I was hoping that after we broadcast that that maybe somebody who had been in this service and might have been part of that mission might have come forward any further developments on that and would you like to just briefly recap that part of the story I should in there's two cases in the eastern US where Green Berets were brought in and that was the Dennis Martin disappearance and great motor Smoky Mountain National Park and it was a Douglas Lake disappearance in the Adirondacks of New York in the Great Smoky Mountains Dennis disappeared with in the essentially almost in the presence of his dad his grandfather and his brother they're playing hide and seek on Spence field up in the middle of nowhere you have to hike into this area Dennis disappeared there was a huge huge search and unbeknownst to anybody is that the Green Berets flying there's been some talk amongst some news services that they were training nearby and happened to come in well if that's true I can't find any evidence of that anywhere and in fact the National Park Service didn't know why they came in and to add mystery to that when the Green Berets flew in by helicopter and landed they established their own command post with communication center until the Park Service they didn't want any assistance meaning that they didn't want to work with anybody who knew the park they didn't want to partner with anybody inside the park and they didn't talk to anybody about what they were doing other than they said they were looking for Dennis well they were there for a number of days nobody ever knows what their assignment was I filed a Freedom of Information Act against the army asking for orders on what their mission was inside the park not only did I not did I get it didn't get a denial I didn't even get a response on two separate fo II's I filed they never even sent anything back nothing so yes the Green Berets coming in is unusual and last time I was on the show I asked there were ever any Green Berets listening to call me because I'd like to understand it since that time I've gotten two emails from family members of Green Berets Green Berets wouldn't talk because they sign a secrecy oath and that's the reason that's unusual normally National Guard's people from a community come in because they're in the community and they come in and assist on a search Green Berets sign of secrecy oath they don't talk about their missions well this is holding true because both families who contacted me said that their parents their brothers cetera was a green beret and that quote-unquote both emails almost said the same thing Green Berets don't search for missing people well okay that solves it we're gonna go to the phone lines now a lot of folks been holding on and the phone lines are full east of the Rockies ålesund in Portland Maine hi Alison good morning hi good morning boy your shows mister Politis the tonight and last year and that was Odie actually they're really creepy and I just love it your own anyway are you meant to out of Australia and I know this is probably long before the sort of time frame you're with but there's the very famous case they're a century ago now of the Picnic at Hanging Rock at the Ayers Ayers Rock Inn in Australia where the group of girl girls vanished it was made into a book and by John Lindsay and a film in the seventies by Pierre we are really excellent movie and I think that in the film at least one of the teachers and somehow it came back or something I don't know how accurate that was not but it's a very this day it was never quite explained yet Dean doing do you know about that jazz something I've heard of it but we really don't know much about it no no I know it's just it seems like a really strange one you know and so it shows that these things have been going on if they haven't going on for a long long time most likely you know Ayers Rock is a is a strange place to sorry we couldn't answer your question Alison west of the Rockies Jeff in Culver City good morning Jeff how you doing George and mr. Politis welcome back yes often wondered about all those missing people who have just disappeared without a trace around the world especially little children for example the little girl Maddie McCann vanished in Portugal has never been found yet on a few television news programs they showed age and hands picture of how she might look now as a teenager you know it's very strange that she was chosen on all these other kids that are missing but it seems mr. Politis that someone somewhere is behind these numerous abductions and when they show news programs like that it's almost as if they're testing the public to try and see who's paying attention to what's happening or who can remember this kind of stuff my question is mr. Politis do you believe these abductions could be part of some type of nazi-like master breeding program or if there are alien abductions being conducted do you think the various governments know about these abductions are and are incapable of doing anything about it so they just keep quiet not taking us off there thanks Jeff so that's that's a good question in the sense that do I think the government knows about it yeah I believe in one of my past appearances I spoke about the FBI being on scene on many of these missing kids cases and not taking an active role but just quote-unquote monitoring the case and if you look at the FBI website they have a special section for unusual disappearances of children now that's not a crime but that's an FBI criteria and one of the reasons that they'll come in to investigate and I find that highly unusual because the FBI was established to really investigate criminal activity and now they're they're also investigating unusual disappearances I've stated in the past because I have friends that are agents these guys are phenomenal at documenting things and phenomenal profilers I've when I was a policeman we would get profiling reports on what we're looking for and I'm telling you when we finally found the criminal it was exactly what the profilers wrote they were great at what they did now going back to all the cases that we've documented where the FBI was on scene monitoring the case I know that they were writing reports and as I've stated before these guys are really smart people if if we are smart enough to figure out that there's Colin common elements that run through these cases you know the FBI knows as well I could guarantee it they have put these pieces together much better much faster than we have at the present time now I'll go back to the Dennis Martin disappearance where the Green Berets were there there was actually an agent on that theme the same agent was on scene for many of the disappearances in those mountains during those time frames as a very very weird circumstance I was interviewing mr. Martin and one of the last things I always ask anybody as I say is there anything else about this case that wasn't made public that I should know about or is there something missing in a documentation that I haven't talked to you about and one of the things that mr. Martin told me was is that well Dave the agent on this case committed suicide and we did validate that he did it makes you wonder whether a folio works with the FBI I mean it's tough I've done it on other subjects and you got a really tailor the request to get specifically what you want so I'm not sure you've probably tried heaven today we have tried many many times and in the rare instances where we get a report it's almost worthless because it's redacted so much first time caller Thomas in Waco Texas welcome to the show Thomas hey real quick August 16th 1942 the LA the LA blimp which is now the Goodyear blimp down in Carson went out of Metro without its crew was armed with machine gun and the radio went out the wind blew it back in at the base crews never been found and and it was no sign of any foul play on the blimp or anything that's documented on the web to the previous caller talked about the children there's there's an astronaut amount of children that disappear every year also the Ortega Highway down in Costa Mesa people disappear out of there every year and also Paul I sent you an email I was living in Phoenix for seven years since 1999 to 2006 and I'm an aerospace engineer and one day I was in my backyard from Tucson to Chandler there was almost 40 Hill copters and single file that came up to Chandler turned me the left turn and went to Phoenix I'm assuming that we're going to loop here for space nothing on the news absolutely nothing on the major still copter military convoy and I've never seen anything you like it in my life well you're saying that somehow related to the missing people no 16 to his previous Dave had a previous show about hill copters and stuff and and things and nothing about a military activity nothing you know nothing recorded nothing the news major military movement of hill copters and I've never seen one thing like that and never made the news complete blackout alright Thomas let's see if we can get David to react to this David I don't know if you're familiar with the blimp case he's talking about about a crew that disappears from a blimp and you know I've got cases here in Nevada that we've talked about on this program about the old guy who was driving up north on highway 80 and vanished I guess if you really wanted to expand your parameters to include strange disappearances vanishing into thin air you could have a heck of a lot more cases but there has to be a limit at some point yeah and we're trying to keep this really tight with the elements that we have and boy I'll tell you you know we've had missing people families contact us about their kids and it's it's hard to turn people away especially when they're missing loved ones but we got to keep that that tight because if we go outside the bounds of that then we're stepping into areas where we really may not understand what's happening whereas we're getting closer to understanding this but you're not quite there no I'm not any plans for another edition of this book I mean I think you could probably go on forever good yeah this week I was sitting in the office of a very rural county sheriff in Colorado and there's a couple of disappearances in his County and we were sitting around talking and I was explaining the things in the book and he his eyes lit up he says you know he goes I've always thought these disappear is up here don't make sense you guys I don't have the manpower to commit to really do a thorough investigation but he says when you show me a map of Colorado and I start to see that there is some consistency amongst okay in the northern part of the state there's three boys that have disappeared in 65 years and there's not another boy that fits that criteria for the whole state he goes what am I supposed to think because you're the first group that's ever put this together in a way where we can sit down and understand it because something is going on we need we need some help with this well that's another aspect we haven't even touched on tonight but we've talked about briefly in the past is that in these clusters they seem to come in groups like young boys in in one cluster older people and another cluster adults and and that just is another weird aspect of this that's hard to explain we're gonna go to a wildcard lines all of them full when we come back our conversation with Dave Politis continues right after this on coast to coast am all right here we go to the wild-card lines Tony in Illinois thanks for being so patient what's on your mind thanks a lot George absolutely Dave why this absolutely great work I'm definitely looking at this hey Tony I got to tell you your phone is really breaking up so you're gonna have to jump into this real quick because you're making an awful noise on our end here I was eight years old I thought I was a different it back to the table next thing I know I was completely displaced it took me two hours to fly my way back home just for my dad working with a hammer but it completely displaced me from a pond to a complete part of Missouri strange when I got back my dad said that that's not the only thing strange that happened if you got lost because when he was hammering out on his house some giant shadow went over his house and you know when he looked up he didn't see me he thought he was gonna see a bird he did not see anything Hey I'm sorry to cut you off but you're the sound from your phone on this end is really terrible but I'm telling you that you have a great story here to tell and I'd like to hear more of it if you could try to call back or if you can contact Dave I think if he'd like to hear your story in great detail we'll provide information Oh people hang on for a second we'll give you a link where you can get ahold of them but I I'm sorry that we we have a problem with your phone I know you've been holding on a long time we're going to go to Andy in Los Angeles on the wild card line hi Andy I enjoyed your great interview I really enjoying you in babe you are also a great guest I have a quick comment and then I'll bring up a few quick points and you can please feel free to comment on any point that you think is of significance you know it's very unusual to me that and I don't believe in coincidences either that the government was not keep records or leave a paper trail and secondly because if the public is not aware they they will not be able to the pieces of the puzzle together secondly if you can comment on one or more of these points that I make rapid-fire here what was there any one or two colors that seemed to stand out in the affections number two an entire village in China in a mountain village disappeared in the last five to ten years and it's on the internet many women and kids all gone number three has anyone checked into the possible in the cluster areas of the GPS coordinate approximate the coordinates if there's a pattern there also Andy that that's all you get we got a whole bunch of people so three questions is all you get but thanks for calling Dave did you write those down what colors to begin with no specific colors just bright colors in general yellows oranges things like that GPS coordinates I can tell you that we put up we put the disappearances on a map and that's how based on the last location the person was seen and that's how we determined the locate for us the other question was about China some disappearance of an entire village is that ringing a bell no it doesn't okay Andy thanks for the call appreciate it Dale in Kansas City Missouri good morning hello George hello Dave quick comment and then a question and I hung up I grew up in the st. Clare County Alabama and an area called ball Rocks and growing up there in another neighbor friend went up on ball rock because he could get there by Road he points out to me at cave we spend down in this cave and I get here come out of it because we are no flashlight or anything next thing as there been any cases reported in Alabama I know Matt chih-hao is the highest point two thousand hundred and seven feet but have there been any missing cases in Alabama thank you for taking the call okay Dale any come to mind you know none come to mind but I do know that there were some in Alabama in the eastern book we documented it I don't recollect I mean there's 600 cases that come to mind you know George one thing I did get a question on my end as well it said have any military personnel vanished during training exercises none that I know of in North America but I doubt that they had released that information and then one other thing is that we have always looked for someone who is a remote viewer who's retired from the military we would like to use them and that question has come up many times and if we don't know how to find one but if somebody is listening out there and wants to work with us we would like to work with them I'll help you find one in fact I'll help you find a group of them what can talk about that off the air Dale thanks for the call Joe in Washington on the wild-card line good morning Joe how you doing George it's an honor to talk to you another great show Thank You mr. Politis I really appreciate your tenacity in this subject I think you do a great job with it quick story we got a call one day that a missing person so we went out to to lend a hand we probably sent my officers and horses and and there was Sheriff's Department there's probably 60 people total and we're looking for about a six year old girl that had walked to a small Creek from a campground with her cousin probably 50 yards from the campground and her cousin went back to the campground and this little girl disappeared so we looked for two days she should wear her flip-flops her shorts and a tank top and it was temperature was 12 East 65 degrees during the day and give it down to 30 32 at night and we searched for two days we had to milk Air Force helicopters with their flew units at night flying we had a law enforcement helicopter flying and the search went on 24 hours a day well about two days later this little girl just walked out to the road probably less than half a mile from where she disappeared and looked like nothing had happened I mean she spent two days there two nights in the woods and she came out looking like nothing it happens you were in great shape she was you know my question is how many many girl how many kids do you think that that disappear like this that to me it it was extremely strange we couldn't believe it that we found her we couldn't believe that she was that close when we could voting that she was in that good of shape Wow and how many kids do you think just disappear and then I found a day or two later and it's never reported as like a missing person many many in fact that scenario you just explained has happened many times and the issue with that is is that the the victim isn't debriefed many times and questioned everyone's happy that she's found but nobody wants to take the time at that point to really sit down with her debrief her and find out how this thing involved well she was first Native Americans and she didn't hurt foreigners didn't want anything to do with talking anybody once we 500 she was just they were gathered up there pretty much come on but so that there was no debrief in this one for sure yeah that's unfortunate but that's the norm as well it's as if people are happy look we're glad the kids alive and been through this ordeal we're not going to bother her anymore right and you know that she is Native American puts that much of an unusual twist on it because I am somebody that knows a lot about Native American history and Native American lore and their myths and legends and that that just brings that much more question to my mind right away Joe appreciate that call I hope you'll be in contact with with Dave and maybe you guys can swap some notes on that case if it's not in Dave's database it's one that maybe needs to be there appreciate the call wild card line that Athena in Durango Colorado good morning Athena hi George hi Dave there seems to be a very peculiar pattern to these abductions number one the people that are taken are spying on nature the people in the watchtowers the guy bird-watching or their conquering nature they're trying to climb a mountain hiking you know etc and you know nature doesn't deal a lot with technology maybe nature is trying to find out how to use technology against us the way we use technology against them you'll notice that when the children are taken they leave behind all the technological things the clothes and they and the children are usually found because children are not so technologically advanced they probably wouldn't need as much information but the adults don't seem we found as much and when they are found they're dead like maybe their technology information has been sucked out of them talking about those spirits that came out of the boulders you know come at night and how nature is angry at us about our technology you hear that all the time maybe they are really angry and they're they're tired of being spied on and not getting any feedback for what they're giving us that's an interesting perspective day any thoughts not really no I you know it's not it's it's interesting speculations it's not something you could prove one way or another but it's as interesting and idea as we've heard thanks technology yeah we got you understand I wish we could prove it one way or another thanks to the call east of the Rockies Mike in West Palm Beach hi Mike how you doing I won't tell your listeners the Bermuda Triangle is alive and well a little West Palm Beach which is at the at the apex of a triangle and if you go to Google look at the following Florida missing or disappearing swimmers every so often a person drowns of course the tourists they find the bodies later two recent cases got the attention of the press though one was a Israeli millionaire disappeared off his yacht who was parked right near Fort Lauderdale then found his body then there was another one a few months ago that really got people where I live upset there was a girl who was going out in the water got caught in a Riptide I was screaming for help a man jumps in in front of dozens of witnesses James the girl and he disappears they never found his body that really got the press attention another issue was this every few weeks an empty boat comes ashore here and these are from illegal immigrants and the assumption is that come in the beach and they run inland but the problem is no one would go because these are heavily these are condos on the beach there Rush Limbaugh's lives here you've got tremendous police patrols they never report what happened to these people all those reporters these boats keep coming in every few weeks they're empty and there's no one around and there's another issue too but I again I look with the reader triangle the press doesn't mention anything they don't give follow-up stories about these boats or what's going on okay Mike we're gonna give Dave a chance to talk about that Dave you you mentioned earlier you try to weed out cases involving water I guess because you have to draw a limit somewhere but that's pretty interesting stuff you know he brought up an interesting point that I've never talked about publicly but about three weeks ago I got a letter from a man in Finland who had gotten my book and he's done some research on his own and that in my missing East and West books he found that on one day where two kids disappeared a plane disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle and then he found that another plane disappeared in Lake Erie or Lake Michigan that was a navy plane and that was in correlation to one of the disappearances in one of the books appreciate the call Mike west of the Rockies Reba in Washington which as we learn in this new volume of missing for 1-1 is a hotbed of these kinds of cases Reba yes hello there I have three areas that I'm kind of curious about I do rockhounding and I'd like to know if there have been any of these disappearances around the Lolo Pass Montana area or the red-top mountain area northeast of Cle Elum Washington or the Colville National Forest so I would say that anywhere in that Washington Cascade corridor there's been disappearances unusual disappearances and so I would say as I've told everyone that I speak in front of that I wouldn't hike alone number one I wouldn't go into the woods without a firearm and I wouldn't go into the woods without a personal locator beacon I've never taken a case where somebody's disappeared that was armed and had a locator beacon there's been people that have disappeared under the criteria that have been armed and there's been one person that disappeared under the criteria that had a locator beacon never with both I also asked she asked about Montana Dave I know you do have a section in the new book that talks about cases from Montana yes and it's it's lengthy and there's a lengthy section in the western book as well I mean when you have 600 cases I just can't remember them all sure I understand first-time caller Alan in Texas hi Alan welcome to the show okay yeah one afternoon I left out a Reno Nevada heading towards Portland Oregon and I was a my truck driver and I was bobtail and the letters from to deteriorate and I was on a California 89 and stopped at a rest area and went to bed on Friday afternoon Saturday early morning and I have a computer in the truck that tracks my movement in time and this showed that I had stopped Saturday and didn't wake up until Tuesday morning when somebody knocked on the truck and I I don't know if I was taken or lost of time I've you know does that seem to happen sometimes to are there Dave among your cases people who just basically go to sleep and then wake up days later and it's that's all they remember you know that that sounds more like something John Mac had written about in his book but the consistent element there is that the people just don't have a recollection of what occurred yeah missing time type case thanks Alan sorry we can't give you more info there's a caller named Leon in Washington who says he's got a case involving a disappearance of a military personnel but I'm sorry that we're not going to have time to get to it Leon I hope

Channel: Missing 411 Daily

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Length: 111min 9sec (6669 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 30 2018