Cornel West on capitalism, Ukraine, and his presidential run | The Chris Hedges Report

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EDIT: Just saw this in the youtube description (video is only 9 hours old at the moment). Since the recording of the interview, West has announced his intention to seek the Green Party nomination (as opposed to the People's Party before).

Kind of a moving testimonial on his view of what is ahead of him (and what's behind us). As in other interviews, he says he is a "jazzman" and improvises his responses (he's been criticized for this), but I think he ends up covering a lot of interesting ground in an authentic and emotional way. It comes across better than a lot of the tired, rehearsed platitudes that a lot politicians use.

He wants to center "working and poor people of all colors" first and foremost. And by all colors, he's not afraid to talk about the disenfranchisement of poor and rural whites. Him and Hedges go into how from both sides of the political spectrum they are either lead by "pied pipers" or demonized by democrats, but either way basically looked on as dirt. West plans to specifically spend quality time in rural America talking to these people. "Not arrogantly," he notes. He says he doesn't have any illusions that you can convince all of them, but that it has to be tried. Very, very interesting.

I don't want to give too much of it away, but if you don't know about him, you should.

👍︎︎ 16 👤︎︎ u/big_meats93 📅︎︎ Jun 17 2023 🗫︎ replies

Better than the corporate co*suckers.

👍︎︎ 12 👤︎︎ u/59footer 📅︎︎ Jun 17 2023 🗫︎ replies

If he gets the Greens over the 5% voting mark to enable Federal funding then he'll have achieved an important milestone for US democracy.

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/MarketCrache 📅︎︎ Jun 19 2023 🗫︎ replies
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Dr. Cornel West, the moral philosopher  and Civil Rights activist, is running for   president on the People's Party ticket. Dr. West  will be a singular voice for serious social and   political change in an electoral system saturated  with corporate money and rigged to crush third   parties. He calls for a paradigm shift, a  realignment of the ideological landscape,   demanding that we redirect the focus of governing  institutions from the demands of markets and   corporations, the military machine empire, and  the ruling oligarchs to poor and working people.   His decades-long commitment to the oppressed,  his fierce opposition to American militarism and   empire, his condemnation of the grotesque  avarice of the billionaire class, and his   determination to halt the ongoing ecocide will see  him contemptuously dismissed by the establishment.  If this campaign becomes a movement, and it  will need a lot of organizing to get Dr. West   on the ballot and build grassroots support, the  array of forces that will seek to discredit and   sabotage his candidacy will be formidable. The  Israel lobby, the war industry, the courtiers in   the media, the corporatists, the billionaire  class, and the Democratic Party leadership   will be as vicious to Dr. West as these forces in  Britain were to Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters.   What hope third party candidates have of  achieving victory in our current political   system remains to be seen, but one thing is  for sure: short of a political revolution   that overthrows the ruling corporate duopoly,  we are headed not only for corporate tyranny,   but ultimately the extinction of the human  species along with most other species.  Joining me to discuss his candidacy is Dr.  Cornel West. Cornel, I want to ask you first,   you campaigned for Obama. I think you did over 60  campaign events for Barack Obama. You campaigned   for Bernie Sanders. So you certainly were embedded  within the Democratic Party machine. What changed?  Well first, let me just start off saying it's  always a blessing to be in conversation with you,   brother. These decades have been ones in  which it's hard to imagine myself without   the joy of having your brotherhood and  our friendship and your peace in Substack   that made the announcement, set the high standard,  and the high note. It reminded me of the high C   note in Louis Armstrong in the West End Blues,  brother. We keep that standard because we always   want to be clear what the standards are. It's  the only way we can sustain the courage and as   you know, courage is the enabling virtue. All  the other virtues are empty without courage.  For me, I've always viewed myself as a jazz  man in the world of ideas as well as the   jazz man in politics, which means I have to be  improvizational. I can't be dogmatic, I can't   be ossified and petrified in my analysis or in my  praxis. So I find myself always going in and out.   I've worked with my dear brother Bill Bradley who  I have deep love for, we had deep disagreements   too. Then I also worked for Ralph Nader and I  believe Ralph Nader's one of the great figures of   the 20th century and 21st century. I want to  say that publicly because he's been mistreated,   misperceived, and so forth. Then I went back  again with Bernie, then went with Jill Stein,   then went back again even with Biden, old  warmongering milquetoast Biden, over against   Trump. So I've tried to be flexible and fluid  enough, but it's always tied to putting precious   poor people and priceless working people of all  colors, at the center of my vision and praxis.  So I'm thoroughly convinced now that, at this  historical moment, you can never defeat fascism   with milquetoast neoliberalism. Neoliberalism will  simply put it off for a while. You've got to get   at the roots of fascism and the two-party system,  the corporate duopoly impedes and obstructs the   empowerment of poor people -- not just in the  US, not just in the American empire, but around   the world -- Given the militarism and given the  800 military units that represent the American   empire in terms of its military might. So this  particular moment, I'm just giving all that I can   to mount this third-party bid to, on the one hand,  be head of the empire and then to win and begin   to dismantle the empire in the name of poor and  working people here and abroad. So it's one moment   within a much larger movement. That movement, of  course, is not just national, it is international.   Keeping the focus on those the great Frantz  Fanon calls, The Wretched of the Earth.  Why can't that be done  through the Democratic Party?  The Democratic Party has proven now that  its corporate wing will always snuff out   the progressives, the Bernie Sanders. I  have great love for Bernie. I'll always   have a love for my brother and as a jazz person,  improvizational, I can love somebody and still   have big disagreements. It made it very clear that  the progressives will always be a window dressing,   especially every two years and every four  years during elections. Corporate interests,   military interest, military-industrial  complex, Wall Street,   Silicon Valley, Big Tech, they're at the center  of the Democratic Party. So it's the taboo issues:   corporate power, surveillance, ecological  collapse, fossil fuel industry. We saw it   with Manchin in the debt ceiling agreement. Oh,  you can make agreement with him, but you can't   make agreement when it comes to the needs of poor  and working people. Oh, I see. Reveal yourself,   Democratic Party. Of course, they've been doing  that for a while, but at this particular moment,   it's very difficult not to be able to see that. Then when it comes to militarism, oh my God.   Jesus Christ. Ukraine, the Middle  East, Israeli-Palestinian situation.   It's very clear that there's no commitment  to the suffering of the least of these,   be it Palestinians on the West Bank or be it  precious Ukrainians who deserve a central focus   but who are bearing such a brunt, in part, not  just because of Russian imperialism but because   of American imperialism. So the NATO expansion is  a fundamental factor here and it's been downplayed   by the rationalizers of the war. So we've got  to bring that war to a stop in the name of the   suffering of our precious Ukrainian brothers  and sisters and the acknowledgement -- Even   though Putin is in fact a gangster, even though  the invasion is a crime against humanity -- Any   empire who's pushed their back against the wall,  responds like empires. All you got to do is look   at the American empire. If there was missiles  in Mexico, or Canada, or Cuba, or Venezuela,   the US would blow them to smithereens overnight.  Why? Because it's the mightiest empire.  Russia is a wounded empire, got its  own forms of repression. I'm in deep   solidarity with the oppression of the Russian  brothers and sisters who are going to jail   against the invasion. See, that's serious moral  witness. That speaks deeply to me. So I don't view   Russians in any homogenous way, there's always a  variety of different voices. Same way in Israel.   You've got some Jewish brothers and sisters who  are in solidarity with the Palestinians, not   their government, but you never view the Jewish  community as a homogeneous community. There's   always a variety of different voices. So to keep  that moral and spiritual dimensions at the core   means everything to my own candidacy, my brother. I want to talk about both domestic and foreign   policy. We've seen the neoliberals dismantle the  New Deal. It started immediately after World War   II, all sorts of antilabor laws, the Taft-Harley  Act accelerated in reaction to the movements of   the 1960s, you had the Powell memo to Samuel  Huntington called the excess of democracy. You   probably knew Huntington at Harvard. Oh, yeah.  Talk about what they've done and  what we have to rebuild domestically.  Yeah, I think that it's very clear that the powers  in the US were frightened by the expansion of a   trade union movement that was going to bring power  and pressure to bear on the predatory capitalist   processes, in which profits were to be gained and  workers were to be manipulated and subjugated,   just for profit. The great CLR James makes  this point when he's in Ellis Island, 1946,   1947. Massive strikes, major challenges to the  corporate order, you see, and then boom, as you   say, anti-trade union policy tied to Congress and  the courts at the same time. Courts instruments of   corporate elites, ruling class. Congress already  themselves thoroughly subordinate to corporate   elites, ruling class. Trade union movement  not just pushed against the wall, but so   many of the precious socialists and precious  communists with the Smith Act are deported,   or thoroughly marginalized, or demeaned,  or lied on, and a host of others.  I was thinking of the great Louisa Marino,  who's one of the greatest Latina freedom   fighters of the 20th century, was deported from  California and had to go to Guatemala. She goes   there then the US has a coup there and overthrows  the democratic government, but she holds on.   The way Claudia Jones was deported, but held on.  The way Benjamin Davis, the city councilman from   Harlem who was taken to jail under the Smith  Act. For what? For being a communist. Wait,   wait a minute. I'm not myself a communist,  but I defend the rights of everybody. Where   is the libertarian sensibilities here among the  liberals? Oh, highly selective and you always get   that kind of hypocrisy from corporate liberals. What we have is an attempt between 1945 and 1973   to, on the one hand, push the trade union back,  but they had to come to terms with Jim Crow.   The vicious legacy of white supremacy that  had played a fundamental role in shaping the   American capitalist order, Indigenous  people subjugated, genocidal attacks,   immigrants tied to cheap labor, enslaved Africans  for almost 100 years, and then Jim Crow. They had   to come to terms with Jim Crow because they broke  the back of the vicious, indescribably evil Nazi   regime in the name of, we are against racism. So what we got between 1940 to 1973,   we broke the back of legal apartheid in  America. We broke the back of Jim Crow, but   the trade union movement being pushed back, issues  of class rendered invisible, or if you touch it   you're going to be thoroughly marginalized.  Think of the great W.E.B. Du Bois, think of   the great Paul Robeson, among others, who wanted  to talk about those class issues. That Black folk   then are included within the status quo there,  included within an order where it's difficult   then to talk about poverty and class. It's going  to only be talked about race and upward mobility.  So the very litmus test of progress, let's say,  in relation to race, how many middle-class Black   folks you got? What kind of representation do  you have at the top? So you end up with a more   multiracial and even later multicultural status  quo that still has contempt for poor people,   contempt for working people, militaristic  presences abroad, and yet now Black folk   are represented and included in an  unjust order, but slightly less unjust   because it's not as racist as it was before. But Cornel, it's just internal colonialism in   the same way that when it became unfeasible to  run the Congo, they assassinated Lumumba, who   was a real freedom fighter, and put in the corrupt  Mobutu to do their bidding. So it's really just a   species of internal colonialism, isn't it? No, you're right. It's just that you can   imagine the impact on my precious Black folk  after those years of white supremacist slavery,   and years of lynching, and years of Jim and  Jane Crow, to finally gain a foothold in the   American mainstream. See, in lived experience,  that has impact. You know what I mean? You say,   oh, my God. It looks as if we're really now on  the way to Black freedom. We're on the way to   liberation and emancipation, and you have  to do what? Stop, reflect, tell the truth.  The breakthroughs have been made for the Black  middle classes, for the Black bourgeoisie,   for the Black professional managerial class.  Absolutely unprecedented opportunities. That   cannot be denied. You can't account for Obama  without telling that story. But at the same time,   when you have the vision that I am concerned  about, which is the vision of the plight and   the predicament of what the Bible calls, "the  least of these": the poor, the working classes,   those in the hoods, in the barrios, our poor  white brothers and sisters in Appalachia, and   so many other places still catching hell. The  same would be true of women in the patriarchy,   our precious trans being viciously attacked,  precious gays and lesbians, viciously attacked.  When you look at the world from the vantage  point of their plight and predicament, you see   all the multiculturalism in the world is  still going to generate an unjust status   quo. Let us be very clear. When you have your baby  crushed or your mother killed on the West Bank,   it's not a big difference between the  Democratic Party and the Republican Party.  Yeah. Not at all. Not at all.  Let's talk about what Malcolm X called our  internal colonies. I also just want to throw   in there, we were both great friends with Glenn  Ford. He used to talk about the Black elite as   the Black misleadership class, he called it. Oh, what a great -- [inaudible] Margaret   Kimberley, and Brother Danny, and the others.  And we miss Bruce too, brother Bruce Dixon.  Yeah. Bruce Dixon. My God, yeah.  But let's talk about those internal colonies.  We both taught in the prison. We visited Mumia   Abu-Jamal together with the great James Cohn.  There's a protean quality to white supremacy   and racial suppression that it changes its  shape, but we now have militarized police forces   functioning as internal armies of occupation  with long-barrelled weapons, Kevlar vests,   kicking down doors in the middle of the night.  There's not much difference between a night raid   in Newark, or Camden, or Oakland, or anywhere  else and the night raids that are carried out   overseas. There's that tie with imperialism. But there is a huge section of this country,   both white, Black, of all colors, that have been  completely written off and by a corporate media,   rendered invisible. The heart of your campaign  is to address that huge section of the American   population, of all colors, that have been cast  aside as human refuse through industrialization,   austerity, and everything else. Absolutely. I think of that farewell tour.   Somebody I know wrote a text on that, name is  brother Chris Hedges, that talked precisely about   the precious folk who have been pushed against  the wall by corporate globalism, the kind of thing   celebrated by the Thomas Friedmans and others. Oh,  this is the way for not just liberty and freedom,   but democracy across the board. Well let's look  at the evidence. We ain't got nothing against you,   Tom. Let's look at the evidence. Well, we  noticed that in the US, the point that the   great William Barber has been making, is that The  Poor People's Campaign with sister Theoharis is   what? 60% of Americans are living month to month.  23% of Americans are still living in dire poverty   even as food stamps are cut given the debt  ceiling agreement between Biden and McCarthy.  What are we talking about in terms of human  beings who are unable to flourish because of   lack of nourishment, let alone lack of access to  serious substantive healthcare, care of quality,   even given Obamacare? I know I get that a lot  from my neoliberal brothers and sisters. Obamacare   came through and made the breakthrough. Oh, it  was a deal with big pharmaceutical companies,   a deal with the corporate elites in the industry  that's supposedly delivering medical services,   but profit at the center, leaving out so many. I believe in abolition. See, I'm part of the   Frederick Douglass school of thought. You see,  I don't want to chip at poverty. I want to   eliminate, abolish poverty. I don't want to chip  at homelessness. I want to abolish homelessness. I   don't want to chip at struggle for living wages. I  want to abolish unjust wages. I don't want to chip   at mass incarceration reform. I want to abolish  forms of injustice that incarcerate people as   if they're animals. There's ways of dealing with  murderers, and rapists, and so forth, things that   are criminal. I'd be the first to acknowledge  that, but there's ways of dealing with them.  We can learn from Finland. We can learn from  Denmark. We can learn from Sweden on how you   rehabilitate persons. I want to abolish corporate  greed and on, and on, and on. That kind of abolish   mentality and imagination the Ruth Gilmores,  the Angela Davises, and others have taught us,   mean much to me. Because that's what it  means in the end: to really bear witness   to the precious humanity of each and every one  of us, no matter what color we are, gender,   sexual orientation, or national identity. You're right. What's at stake is what?   You see it in New York right now,  you see it on the East Coast.   Ecological catastrophe. The future of the species,  the future of the planet. What's at stake?   The destruction of democracy. If the  only alternative to fascism we produce   is a corporate-driven, milquetoast, neoliberal  Democratic Party, fascism will come to America.   Let us be very clear. It's like a Weimar  America. You got to get at the roots of fascism.  That's why, as you know, I'm going straight  into Trump country, man. I'm going to talk to   many of those vanilla brothers and sisters.  I'm not naïve, but I'm going to say, I know   you want it. I know you're scarred. I know you're  bruised. I know you have not been able to flourish   under this corporate globalization, and the  arrogance of the professional-managerial class,   and the greed of the corporate elites. I want you  to be able to become a part of a movement that's   concerned by satisfying your basic social needs.  Give up on following neo-fascist pied pipers. Give   up on the xenophobia that makes you feel good,  yet you still catching hell economically and   financially. That's what is required. I'm not  naïve, but we have a chance of reaching some   of those white brothers and sisters. I don't  give up on them at all. They're human beings.   They just happen to want to come at Black folk,  and gays, and lesbians, and Jews, and Arabs,   and Muslims at the moment. They can be changed.  You go out to reach them, not in arrogance.  Well that rage is manipulated  and directed by demagogues.  That's right. Figures like Trump,   or DeSantis, and others and it's also buttressed  by a Democratic Party arrogance and dismissal   of Trump supporters, the famous Hillary Clinton  line being deplorables. On the one hand, they're   manipulated. On the other hand, by Democratic  Party stalwarts, they're rejected and demonized.  That's exactly right. Very, very much so. You  see, what's at the center of my campaign is to   reintroduce America to the best of itself. That  would mean, politically, movements break the back   of slavery and Jim and Jane Crow, movements of  workers to try to gain some fairness given the   corporate greed at the top, women control over  their bodies, women respect in the workplace,   any group that's been marginalized. The least of  these, these days, is our precious trans. I keep   coming back to that because I have a deep moral  and spiritual commitment to the most vulnerable   in that regard, you see. But the best of America  has been the Martin Kings, the Ella Bakers,   the Rabbi Joshua Heschels, the Edward Saids, the  Grace Lee Boggs. I'm talking Louisa Moreno. We   could talk about Chief Joseph, all of the  various voices that represent movements.  Of course, as you know, so much of the  best of the American empire is Black music,   man. It's the greatest artistic  breakthrough in the most barbaric   century of recorded time, the 20th century. So  when you think of gospel and blues, but especially   jazz and rhythm and blues and the best of hiphop,  what you're talking about is a hated, terrorized,   traumatized people who, with artistic creativity  and spiritual fortitude and moral courage,   provide a vision of a better world and provide a  conception of time that's connected to a future   that people are trying to cut us off from. That  future is one in which all of our humanity if   affirmed, all of our sense of possibility is  affirmed. That's John Coltrane's A Love Supreme.  I remember Richard Wright writing about the  blues. That's what we had in place of freedom.  Absolutely. Absolutely. I want to ask you about foreign policy   and Israel. As you know, I spent seven years in  the Middle East. I spent 20 years abroad. For me,   the empire was always the external expression  of white supremacy. I was with US Marine Corps,   went into 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, went  into Kuwait. The way they spoke about Arabs,   sand the N-word, there was ... It is the  subjugation Frantz Fanon who we both admire,   The Wretched of the Earth, but that quality, that  racist quality is as endemic in the outer reaches   of empire as it is within the racist. I think  they mirror each other and I know you've been   very outspoken about Palestinian rights, but talk  about empire and talk about US foreign policy.  One, being with the Monroe Doctrine. After the  imperial expansion of the United States from   13 colonies to a continental social experiment,  it was clear that you had imperial subjugation   of indigenous peoples and others. The Mexican  War, Ulysses S. Grant himself says phony war,   immoral war. He was one of the leaders of the war,  but he knew there were no moral ground. Half of   Mexico is now part of the USA. So we have to keep  track of that story if we're concerned about the   truth. Condition of truth is to allow suffering  to speak. To keep those suffering voices that are   resisting ... They're not just victims. They're  resisting. Monroe Doctrine says what? All of the   hemisphere is our backyard. No one else can ever  intervene. Then you've got the Philippines in   the 1890s, Guam, Puerto Rico, and Cuba. Now,  you got six million people of color under US   imperial [inaudible 00:26:12] outside of  the continent. You already reconstituted   American empire within the continent beginning  with 13 states. People need to be able to keep   track of that story, keep track of that narrative. Why? Precisely because when you get to US foreign   policy, it's going to be so deeply shaped  by the settler colonial experience of the   Europeans who arrived. They're just now going  beyond national borders. So they carry that   white supremacy with them. Look what's going  on in Uganda right now. You've got indigenous   hatred of precious gays and lesbians and  trans, but also you have American evangelicals-  Right. ... who have been   fanning and fueling the hatred of gay brothers  and lesbian sisters. Of course as a Christian,   I'm saying all these fellow Christians in their  dominant form, they are as dangerous as they can   be. Your text on American Christian fascists  many, many years ago laid that out. Again,   US foreign policy, imperial like any empire. I  mean I want to be honest. I want to be candid   about that. If people think, "Well  Brother West must be anti-American,"   no, no. I want to introduce America to the best of  itself. Mark Twain was anti-imperialist. He's the   greatest comic writer we ever had. William James,  the most adorable of all public philosophers,   vice president of the Anti-Imperialist League  talking about our vicious treatment of the   Filipinos, he's part of the best that we've had.  We can go on and on. When Martin King came out   against the war in Vietnam, he's part of the best.  A baby in Vietnam has the same value as a baby in   America. I believe that as a human being, as a  Christian, as a free Black man, and as a fellow   citizen in this American experiment given its  imperial backdrop and democratic possibility.  And you, like I, support the boycott, divestment,  and sanction movement against the apartheid state   of Israel. That's a very contentious point and  certainly one the Israel lobby will pick up on. I   just want you to explain why. Of course you were  very involved in the campaign to bring down the   apartheid state of South Africa. That's exactly right.  I just want to say that South Africa's apartheid  state, one of their closest allies was Israel.  And the United States. And the United States.  But thank God we had Jewish voices in Israel  who were critical of their own government,   critical of the apartheid regime. Again,  we have solidarity connection that goes   much deeper than just the elites  who are running things, but no,   I think it's fairly clear and this is one of the  litmus tests of the Democratic Party. You see,   the plight of the Palestinians, that's a taboo  issue in the Democratic Party. They can never   ever come to truth, come to terms with the truth  of the suffering of precious Palestinians, but   the point is this. If there were a Palestinian  domination and occupation of precious Jewish   brothers and sisters, then divestment, sanction,  boycott of a Palestinian occupation of Jews would   make you a moral hero. Yeah.  Now, I would be part of that movement too.  I'd be in solidarity with my precious Jewish   brothers and sisters. It's a moral and spiritual  issue, but what we have now is the rationalizing   of crimes against humanity when it comes  to our precious Palestinian brothers and   sisters. A giant like Roger Waters, what does  he get? Trashed. They lying on the brother,   lying on him. He's been doing that performance  for many, many years. For what? To resist fascism,   to resist Nazism, to resist any form of domination  that's crushing innocent people. People say, "Well   you can't even begin to compare Israeli occupation  to Nazi Germany." Well it's true there's no doubt   that they're no way identical in terms of scope  and range, but apartheid-like conditions are on a   continuum with fascist treatment of people and  they are crimes against humanity. That's what   Brother Roger Waters is talking about and it's  sad he has to undergo this kind of vicious attack.  I know I'll be viciously attacked.  I've been viciously attacked before,   but I just look them in the eye and tell  them that my calling is not one that can   ever be deterred when folk are simply trying to  tell lies on me. If you detect in my practice,   in my work my downplaying of Jewish suffering, I  need to hear that. I do believe Jewish security   is crucial. 2000 years of being hated with  pogroms, leaving for the Holocaust, absolutely   no doubt about that. It should never ever  be massive massacres of precious Jewish   brothers and sisters. I say exactly  the same thing about Palestinians,   about [inaudible 00:31:40] in India, about Muslims  in China, about landless peasants in Brazil,   anywhere that kind of thing is taking place  and of course it begins with me at home.  I want to thank the Real News Network,  its production team, Cameron Granadino,   Adam Coley, David Hebden, and Kayla Rivara.  You can find me at chrishedges.substack.com.
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Channel: The Real News Network
Views: 353,099
Rating: undefined out of 5
Keywords: real news, the real news, real news network, realnews, the real news network, therealnews, trnn, cornel west, presidential election, 2024, green party, people's party, Chris hedges
Id: CedmrfofTi4
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Length: 32min 36sec (1956 seconds)
Published: Fri Jun 16 2023
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