Converting Delta Saw to Metal Cutting #488 p1 pull gear tubalcain

hello once again this is tubal-cain your YouTube shop teacher thanks for joining me and this is tips number 488 possibly the first of a series on turning Delta band saws into metal cutting saws now as you know these are wood cutting saws the way they come from the factory they did make some in a combination wood cutting metal cutting and I talked about that in a recent video but these are 14 inch band saws I've had this for many years I did purchase this one from JC Penney's and it is going to be absolutely perfect to convert or attempt to convert into metal cutting and the whole thing that I have to do here is put in metal cutting blades and reduce the speed greatly and I am going to indeed in the beginning video here talk about or not just talk about I'm going to convert it into a slow speed machine using the pull gear planetary gear reduction that I have talked about in several other videos so take a look at what I'm gonna show you now if you do not know what the pull gear system is go back and watch these videos of mine where I rebuild when I talk about them and I use them on a drill press I've turned the Rockwell bandsaw Rockwell Delta bandsaw around so we can talk about it from the backside but this was again bought from JCPenney so the stand that asan may have been a proprietary item that is sold only at JC Penney's because these saws came with several different stands this happens to be I think the perfect platform to do what I'm doing here in the demonstration and converting it to metal cutting with different motors and so on you probably don't have this stand in fact if you do have a delta bandsaw most of the stands are much narrower from left to right take a look at Jimmy directors and you'll see what those typical stands looked like there may not be room on those stands to do what I'm doing and they conversion would have to be down at the bottom similarly when you look at my other one that I've shown there probably isn't room inside the cabinet this is more of a cabinet stand so I will open that up later it probably will work with the pull gear I don't know if it will work with the other systems that I intend to use if my conversion is successful I will probably try to mount this right angle drive motor gearbox that's a worm drive and that will slow it down that's a 36 2 or that's 36 rpm I forgot what the ratio is I can I'll tell you when we get to that also as you know I have two of the DC motors with controls I've shown a video on that and I have one mounted on a drill press but this other one I probably will mount on the bandsaw to see what happens and in addition I do have one or more of these right angle gearboxes they also probably would work but they have to be used in conjunction with an electric motor so you've got belts to deal with and you need belt guards and all the danger there off I'm not really sure why I am doing this video because there does not seem to be a demand or really any interest by people and having a vertical bandsaw but if you have a machine shop to me it's an essential and in general they were only available in the much larger versions that is do all Grob and you know just large saws that are either too expensive or too large to get into the average home shop so whether this is not as wanted or not I'm gonna go ahead with the video because I myself am interested in it even though I have the other boy screen bandsaw which I have shown in a recent video and I understand that the possibly the reason the Delta didn't sell many of these did I've only ever seen two or three of them that were equipped with the gearbox from the factory because it probably doubled the price because if you were to buy this system that I got right here you couldn't get it for less than $500 if you were to buy one of these brand new I'm sure it's 500 or more and even buying a a gearbox like this and then a motor would be probably too expensive for the average person now I have seen I know I'm jabbering I have seen several people that have converted these saws into metal cutting by using a jack shaft that is there would be four pulleys two belts and kind of a monstrosity if you will and it probably does work but it would be difficult to build a belt guard around it and it would be obtrusive in the machine cabinets or stands that I just talked about this is the 1954 delta catalog and they offered that bandsaw and that was the typical open stand and then they also had the cast I understand you'd never get one of this conversion inside of there but on the back of the bandsaw was a gear box and they don't seem to show that in any of their literature here but my brother had one so if you turned the saw round to the back side there was a gear box that was in the approximate position of that upper pulley apparently they sold more than one type of gear box or one type of reduction over the years very little is said about that here but I am going to zero in right now to the paragraph that talks about the gear unit and you can read that if you desire this is a description of the gear box in 1954 it required only a flip of a lever as it says it did not require a belt to change let's take a look at what they did in the 1958 catalog because they made a change and who knows probably was to cheapen it this is a copy of the 1958 Delta Rockwell catalog they cover this in a little more detail here including telling you that the speed now is available between 40 and 3,000 feet per minute so read this paragraph beginning right here and continuing up here they call it a new gear box so they made a change apparently that year or the year before so you can read through that that is of any interest to you to show you how Delta did it my brother saw which would have been from the late 60s and it was mounted on an open stand on the one like Jimmy's there was a gear box or there was a cover right here probably a foot wide and 18 inches high and it had a door on it you could open the door and you made the speed change I don't remember exactly how it works I've only ever seen one of those and that was my brothers he did not like it he did not like the whole saw because if you are used to do all saws or grove saws or that as industrial saws this will not satisfy you if you're only used to a hacksaw you'll love it so how am I going to do this well I've never done it before but taking that cover off and then I will also have to remove the other half of the clamshell diecast zinc guard and take that belt off and I don't know what I'll have to do but I am going to change some pulleys I'm not sure just what remember that's a 1750 rpm motor and the gearbox will slow it by a ratio of 1 - I should say four and a half - one but we've got a four inch pulley on one end we've got a two inch pulley on the other end I think I will need a further reduction than than what we have here but we'll see what what happens when I do I did a little math in my head or really on paper as to what the speeds would end up being but I think I want to get down to a hundred or a hundred and fifty feet per minute and we'll see if I can do that so in the next scene I will already have this disassembled and I'll be talking about mounting the pull gear all right have a gander at what I've done so far now I pulled the four inch pulley off the main shaft that may not have been necessary but and it did require a poor I must tell you be very careful when you pull die-cast pulleys off that you don't break them because they are brittle this just needed a little persuading it wasn't terribly bad but that'll give me a chance to polish these two shafts so that I don't have to fight pulley changes and all of that but what I'm gonna do now and again let me rain just a bit the opening faced motor of the open frame motors that allowed us to go all through them that it's an insane thing that they do when they provide a motor like that because you'd well I I expect it to fail although this is already thirty years old and it hasn't but I don't like the idea of sawdust in there and I think I will blow it out before I finish this project now I may have to I may not have to take these two brackets off I don't know if there are the way but it looks like the one here on the motor probably is going to be in the way so I'll get back to you in a couple minutes after I've got this pole gear mounted on the motor now this is a 3/4 hole 3/4 bore and that's a 5/8 shafts so remember I had this bushing made a long time ago with the hole for the set screw and everything so that'll make it easier for me and I hope I have the belt alignment and everything and I will have to probably go out into the garage into my stash of hundreds of e bells to find the right size belt I do have the motor loosened that's slotted so it's I had to move it to loosen the belt so I didn't have to fight the belt and I took pictures of the position of the pulleys before I took them off why because someday I'm going to convert this back to wood and I will forget about what was what even if I do it tomorrow I will have forgotten so pictures are a very handy thing I've talked about that before I know a lot of you do that well I'm back in it's about 45 minutes later I'm sweating like a hog it's kind of warm down here well look what I've done I've got the pole gear mounted on the motor and got a step pulley mounted on the main shaft the the four inch pulley just isn't gonna be big enough so I'm using the six inch pulley on the step pulley that still gives me a range here and I'm on the smallest pulley remember there's three grooves on the pull gear so doing the math and I won't belabor this but the pull gear reduces the 1725 motor down to three hundred and eighty-three rpm so we've got three hundred and eighty three RP on here now the ratio here between the two and a half and the six is really a a two point four to one ratio so doing the math again the final RPM as calculated mathematically is a hundred and fifty nine our pm and the short order tachometer doesn't really go very accurate at that point but we're gonna attempt to measure it here in a minute but I want to tell you a few other things now and number one is make sure that you have your motor unplugged when you work on the pulleys and the belts that goes for any machine safety first now when I use the pull gear on a drill press somebody said well why do you have that strapped down and I'm going to have to tie this down with a wire tie or make a bracket or something because when you start it up there's quite a rebound quite a rebound so it needs to be retained and I will do as so in a minute and you can see also that this does not lend itself well to put the belt guard back on of the machine but since this is just a trial anyway I guess it doesn't matter a whole lot but let me get this fastened down and then we'll take some readings and of course I still have to change the blade we have a woodworking I have a woodworking blade on there I hope you enjoy this even though probably nobody and all of Christendom will do this because just how many people when you think about it first of all would want to do this but what's the combination of people that would have both the saw the pull gear and the desire to do that you know it's gonna be minimal but remember my videos are edutainment okay so I did put a heavy-duty wire tie on here and that is necessary because of the rebound so that was my fix for that even though it is strictly hillbilly style but for a temporary video and a temporary application I think that will do the job by the way I didn't really need a step pulley here it's just that this step pulley happened to have a 6-inch shave on it so that anyway that's the largest that I got but now that some of the busy work here is done I'm I have done the mathematical calculations remember there's a four and a half to one ratio here and then the ratio here I gotta look it up again I forgot what it was but doing the the math for this real quickly Oh about two point four two and a half to six was that was the ratio there but the two ratios combined still mathematically produce only an RPM right here of about 160 I really wanted it much lower than that so this is not going to be slow enough for for steel cutting I'm quite discouraged now but what I'll do right now is to take a reading and I'm going to use this to Commodore because the Stuart Warner - Commodore does not do that well at low rpm and this is more precise that's the German one here the whatever the however you pronounce that I just call it the epoch that's the New York name probably the importer but that's the the German name so I'm gonna turn it on now and I'll take a reading here to verify the mathematical UH one that's really eighth grade math it's just that there's there's two computations there that have to be added together and then well alright let me go ahead and take that reading and then I'll tell you what the actual blade speed is yes my math was correct us right about at 160 rpm that's the black scale on the outside there and boy that pole gear is loud isn't it I did put grease in there too it's not just oil but I suppose that's just worn and well I can't be worried about that but it is loud so it's going way too fast at this point I am mildly actually more than mild I'm extremely discouraged well I did the math on that that's just on scratch paper here but the six inch pulley had 159 rpm in a 14-inch wheel on the bandsaw I won't tell you the formulas I did that in another video but it comes out to 583 feet per minute my target was more like a hundred or so or between 100 and 200 so it's just way too fast so all right what's the plan here in my discouragement I quit for a while and I went upstairs I'll check my email and just collect my thoughts here so when I checked my email I cannot believe the coincidence tom kriste a regular viewer sent me an email with an attachment and in the attachment what a coincidence that this should come in the middle of me making a video about speed reducing on the bandsaw but anyway this is an article a page out of the Popular Mechanics magazine in February 1969 where a man makes a speed reducer and as I told you it requires Jack shafts and there it is and I do not intend to do this but I just thought it was unique that that would come in and thank you Tom for sending this at that time and you can go into Google and find that should you want to because this is probably something that everybody can do by buying some pole pulleys and belts the problem here is that these as I mentioned earlier in the video or did I are quite a large they got a big foot space and would we would be hard to install in the cabinet of a bandsaw so but I thought that was pretty neat well I'm back and I'm renewed and refreshed a little bit us a couple hours later so what am I going to do here because this is not usable it does not meet any of my objectives remember that the the speed over there on the boys crane was what only 40 rpm or something here to give me that a hundred and five well I know I'm not going to be able to get a hundred and five unless I put a pulley on here that was so big that it would actually strike the table so I'm thinking what I don't know if they have a 12-inch pulley down at the hardware store but that's probably about as large as I could get in there and I didn't want to spend a lot of money on this because it's all temporary but I just did the math on that and if I were to install a 12-inch pulley that would reduce the speed here half of what it is now so that would bring me down to about 80 rpm or so at at this point the shaft would be going 80 rpm well that's still not gonna give me all that Lois be but it'll bring it down to about 290 feet per minute and that will work it's just a little faster than I wanted it to be but I'm gonna go ahead that's the plan I'm gonna put a 12 inch pulley so I'm gonna go down to the store downtown and check that out now I think I'll take a short video of of me looking through the pulleys to see what they got there it's a farm store so they might have that kind of stuff again I looked at Ace Hardware earlier in the weekend that I didn't like what they had so all right let's go shopping alright I'm into the farm store right now and I'm gonna buy a pulley just for this job I hate to spend the money but right here a twelve inch pulley that's fifteen dollars and then I have to buy the appropriate hub 3/4 that's six bucks but sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and that hub will well into the pulley it doesn't go in right now because of that plastic well that's what I'm gonna have to do this is 12-inch and they do go up to 14 a 16 inch which I don't think would fit on the machine so up to the cashier I go did you like that little shopping trip it's just done with my phone so I know it's not very good but there are again was the hub and this was 2250 it rang up at 20 to 50 for the both of these so there's the 3/4 hub I will check that now to see that it goes on the shaft without it struggling and then I'm going to take the grinder and just remove a little bit of paint there this isn't painted that should blue done and that will go on like that and I'm gonna just tack it on there no big deal though it doesn't have to hold very much but boy they hit a nice selection no no it doesn't well that should slow me down to the figures that I just gave you a few minutes ago so I'll see you in an hour I gotta eat breakfast and then and then weld and I know the video is getting long it's an hour later and I still don't have the pulley ready and I ran into a little problem and it is just this that I cannot get the belts to line the Bell grooves to line up this way so I still may have to move the motor out a little bit toward me here but you see when I had this pulley was dished in here and it would go in far enough to where it would go over this casting part here now so what I have done on this one first of all I machined it off I took almost three sixteenths off then I counterbore that's because there is a thread here on this shaft that is larger than the diameter of this shaft so those two things aside I I got the hub to go in farther I think it'll line up but finally notice that the keyway here ends well I gradually you know how they taper off but right where my thumbnail is so really I added another set screw so that this one will catch at least a little bit of the key and again this is all temporary so that's going to do nice man I removed some paint here so now I truly am finally ready to weld be back in a little while actually it's only 1 minute later and it's raining outside and guess what that's right the water is creeping in so I have to hurry up and get done with this before I reach flood stage Wow it's really 2 hours later I had a rain delay I did not want to weld in the rain because I have to weld outdoors so I got a couple tack wells I I never like to paint myself in a corner so I just make short wells in case I have to cut them off and that's plenty strong to hold and I got the 12 inch pulley mounted I needed a 50 inch v-belt and among the hundreds of belts that I have I only had a 49 and a 51 notice it's only a dollar ninety-nine for whenever that price now that would belt was triple wound like a bandsaw blade into here so it's it's not running very true I got pretty good alignment at least good enough alignment between the two pulleys for the purposes of this video I do want to point out that unless you had a slow-speed motor even with this 12 inch wheel on here and if me let's say you went 14 or 15 there would be clearance here you still would not get it slow enough without the pull gear you'd have to have a 24-inch pulley here and a 2 inch pulley down here probably so it can't be done without either jack shafts or gear boxes or the pull gear according to the mathematical calculations the RPM of the shaft now and of this wheel for that matter should be around 80 rpm so let's check it and as I've talked about in other video since it's a 14 inch bandsaw wheel the circumference of that wheel is three point six seven feet and we do the math there and we come out with 293 feet per minute and again that's quite a bit faster than what I was planning on I was planning on about 100 or 150 and it's just not possible to get there without much a much larger pulley so this will have to do for this experiment and now what I'm going to do is change the blade put a metal cutting blade on and turn this all around and we'll try it out alright a couple of weeks ago I ordered from KBC to 3/8 wide metal cutting blades and they are starett and they're the duratec which actually is their cheapest blade I did not buy one of the good blades these are I think only 15 or $18 a piece because again this is an experiment I didn't want to buy a $40 blade bi-metal blade for this so these are cheaper blades but probably what you would buy at home because it's affordable so I will go ahead and install one of these blades and I do have to readjust the blade guides because the blade that is in there is quarter-inch and did you watch one of the previous videos where I did cut aluminum using this skip tooth blade at very high speed and it was quite a successful successful for aluminum but it would have ruined the mount the the blade instantly if I cut a steel with it now the other thing that I am pondering here is again this is only a 1/3 horse motor and it is not capacitor start does it have the guts to do the actual cutting it is geared down quite a bit so I suspect it will be ok see you in a few minutes when I change that blade alright the metal cutting starett blade is mounted the guides adjusted and before I start cutting I know it's a lot of before wasn't it I'm gonna verify it with the tachometer here so I'm using a difference now the 400 to 5,000 scale so that'll be the inner red ring there and I have to rub the tire against the blade but not the teeth I don't want to hit the teeth so there you can see that I'm basically almost up to the 300 feet per minute remember 293 is what I calculated so it's just a little under 300 so the math was correct as verified by the tachometer I don't believe that I mention it but this blade is 25,000 stick and it's 14 teeth and it's a regular raker type set you want to look at the teeth they're closely so that's what I'm using and here's a piece of eighth inch steel so drumroll please [Music] [Music] and yes Virginia it does cut steel this is quarter-inch thick hot roll and I wonder if I should have ordered slightly coarser blade it's a little bit slow cutting but when you're you don't want to change blades alt all the time you have to find a pitch that is is going to work with different thicknesses so if I were to cut something real thin like sheet metal I need a fine blade but it's gonna cause it to cut a little bit coarser or a little bit slower on real thick metal again sometimes these vertical metal cutting saws were called contour saws however with a 3/8 blade I'm limited as to what to curve I've got you you understand that it's the same thing for a woodworking so I'm just gonna make straight cuts here in less than I were to have a narrower blade then the blade gets kind of delicate when you're cutting metal this is a thin chalumeau [Music] half-inch-thick rolled aluminum [Music] and of course that doesn't cut nearly as fast as that skip tooth blade the other day at high speed if you watch that video this is some real nasty looking 3/4 inch thick steel hot-rolled I guess now that's pretty small going as you would expect to be on something that thick but of course it sure beats the heck out of a hand hacksaw alright I'd like to wrap this video up if you think it was a long video to watch boy it took me two days to make it so a couple things I was worried about number one with that little one third horse motor be powerful enough well it certainly is of course it's geared down so majorly secondly I thought possibly the belts would slip but I don't see that happening at all and I was really laying into that last piece and finally since this is a wood cutting bandsaw and this whole frame here I talked about that you know is is not rigid and hollow and tubular like the original so I thought there might be some flexing there and some vibration and chatter and all that bad stuff but there doesn't seem to be any so I am more than pleased at the way this experiment turned out I would call it a great success and in converting a wood cutting 14-inch Rockwell into a metal cutting now I am not going to leave it set up with the pull gear for several reasons that pull gear in is to go back on my drill press and secondly the follow up videos here will be made and be sure and watch those with the gearboxes and the DC motor and other things like that now I really hope you enjoyed this view this video and that some of you can apply this into your own metalworking basement shops if you're desperate for a bandsaw so this is table cane saying so long for now and be sure and watch that follow-up video see you then you

Channel: mrpete222

Views: 78,641

Keywords: delta bandsaw, delta band saw, delta rockwell saw, lyle peterson

Id: Gtg4kMFZmmU

Length: 33min 51sec (2031 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 09 2018