Conversations with Diahann Carroll

who's had a chance to read the whole thing already nice who got it tonight and has read the whole thing already nobody not one person so the problem with the title however is the legs haven't gone they're still there and you'll see she read it you ready to come in no you want me to keep talking she's here ladies and gentlemen Diahann Carroll thank you are you all here because of me [Applause] what's your name I would test you anymore well then I'm gonna ask a question what does it mean to you to be first it's a good thing I didn't really think about firsts until I was more than halfway through my my work my career other people you know the press so until they give you names they give you categories they give you something and then you begin to think about it you think is that something that I want in my life and what does it mean actually so yes at this point I have to agree that I have had a lot of firsts and I'm grateful that I was able to to the best of my ability and looking back I feel that I did the best that I could do and I'm happy that I was given the opportunity you said looking back that sometimes you had to decide whether you wanted to be first ooh are there times when you definitely did not want to have been first for something no I think I like being first I liked it when I learned that it was a first I was very pleased to have that opportunity to bring my colors my aura my character my good manners my bad man to the tool to the project I like to tip we're gonna start the beginning tell me about New York when you were when you were a child what was New York like that for you fabulous incredible still is a wonderful city but when I came along it was extraordinary and I really thought that the whole world was like New York I thought that the whole country the United States of America I thought why wouldn't they be like New York everyone knows that New York is a marvelous place so they will model themselves after this incredible place called New York and then I began to travel I couldn't believe how separate apart the thought process that is developed in New York how it really was not something that was coast-to-coast and you didn't have to go very far as soon as you leave New York just a little bit yeah New Jersey's doing a hell of a lot better it really is when I came along to New Jersey was really it was not good you know it's not good not a good experience and they're very narrow-minded I don't know what happened but certainly television and being exposed to news around the world and everything changed our films changed everything so we were exposed to each other other human beings and so New Jersey they had to open their minds and say Oh everybody doesn't do it the way New Jersey does it so let's see who these foreigners are from New York City and I think New Jersey is much more sophisticated than it's ever been really silly racially it has grown tremendously and I'm happy because as a New Yorker born and raised I hated to think of New Jersey as being such a near neighbor such an uninformed near neighbor but we've done much better now do you know anything about the New York subway system that the average New Yorker doesn't know I think it used to be a nickel I don't know if the average New Yorker knows that but I think when I went to school NYU it was a nickel and it was quite an experience riding on a subway you met all sorts of people my father was a subway conductor that's right and it's a job that he as a man without an education he came to New York and he really wanted to be a part of he study he literally studied it was still quite segregated this area allowing people to have these jobs on public transportation there was some advantages to having these jobs on public transportation also bus drivers so on and so forth but it was asking him to grow he was a little boy from South Carolina and that this city made him grow as it made my mom grow and they shared all of that with me so it was an experience that we had almost together because I was born 20 minutes after they got married you know but they were fun-loving and smart they had a kind of smarts that helped them because it was strivers really you know strivers row well that's where my parents fit into that category yes they did yes what brought them what your father from South Carolina what about your mother where North Carolina most black people wanted to go north all those old movies those old movies told us so that's gone No so um like everyone else they came to New York and it seemed that the opportunities was certainly there for them the jobs were very few far between but the same as those that came from other parts of the world they found kind of work that made them happy they were earning they were able to have a home send me to school we weren't worried about food and for two people my mother had no education as well she went to a prep school in in the south which was called a school but I'm not certain that it really was we had a lot of those particularly those in the black community but it gave her a kind of style you know to say that she'd gone to mrs. so-and-so's school but they were babies in New York City and it was a great place to be New York was if you couldn't grow in New York then you couldn't grow anyplace we really what what did you take from your childhood as a New Yorker when you say usually New Yorkers are pretty clear about I'm in New York or wherever they've gone in their lives post to New York they're still they still carry that New York what what has how has that helped you in your career being a New Yorker that kind of an attitude or definitely there is a kind of almost arrogance that we have I think primarily because we have wonderful theater or we used to have we're doing teeter-tottering now but if you could work eight shows a week in the theater doing either a musical or drama you felt that you conquer the world and that you'd learn to do something that was a special kind of art and particularly if the reviewers liked the work that you did as a youngster it gave you fire under your wings to challenge it to go on and very often you were working with brilliant directors writers other actors it was a school it was a camaraderie and very often there were older actors who would take me under their wing and make suggestions and it was always a growing period always something new yorkers are very stringent we tell you you know what we think and you may not like it but you know we're telling you how truth so you can trust it at least and i was not very good as i began to move around the world with people who powder sugar powder things and i thought well they know that performance didn't work why are they saying that it worked how are we going to learn what is proper if they're going to play with us as though we don't have the capacity to understand that's not fair so that's one of the things I loved about New York and then we do have the fashion industry in New York which teaches us about another section of living that is a really an announcement of what you are as you enter a room and we're very arrogant about that we know that that's ours it's a nice thing to have what do you remember from your childhood that the first inkling that you were interested in performing in all in any arena what did I what did I learn no what went looking backwards what when do you remember in your childhood the first inkling that you wanted to be some kind of performer oh oh I'm sorry because that was one of those menopausal moments I'm sorry how I suppose I was um I was about six my first performance in elementary school and we used to stand in a line in almost all our elementary schools and the poem was read from right to left or left to right and I was so working so hard on this particular appearance with the costume crepe paper costumes and my mother thought that I obviously had the whole poem when she arrived she saw that there were six other children who had a line too but I stepped forward to say my line at the top of my love it was so obvious that I wanted to be in front of an audience and I think from that day forward we all understood that this was a journey we should probably make together parents and child because I really could not have done them without done anything without their support how do they encourage you my mother told me that I would probably one day be President of the United States I was never good question that I thought that sounded good to me and if you fall short of that in any way you can't fall too far if you're aiming for president of the United States and I loved her for that she supported me with she spent her money on me you know she was given an allowance and whatever lessons were necessary voice piano violin I learned to play neither but I have the lessons oh you can hear me you can we hear you I think they were yes anding you oh yeah yes so alright now you you you're getting your encouragement your you're singing around the house I assume when did you first start to take it seriously in some way not that you weren't taking it serious yeah really right really from the beginning I was doing a cricket in something called what's call the lead character is a puppet Pinocchio that's try and I was Jiminy Cricket and uh I had to sing I think Jiminy Cricket has one song that is very much attached to to the character it's I don't think we've had too many productions of Pinocchio the last few years I'm miss Pinocchio it was wonderful it was such a time of innocence anyway we all knew that I was I was going to do this it was not to be questioned and it may have made my father and happy because you know like all fathers he wanted me to go to Howard University in the black community and become a doctor that's what every Jewish parent wants and that's what every black parent one egg that ride and they were disappointed that I have chosen show business but it was obvious that that I was serious about it everything I did went in that direction then I want a scholarship from the Met the Metropolitan House and every day she no matter what kind of weather whatever it took she got me there and I think it costs her a half dollar each class but she wanted me to do it and then the theater she I had to see something she found everything she could that was here towards children there was something called the voices of the turtle and my mother did not investigate that thoroughly yeah and she took me to see voice of the turtle kind of very happy voice did it it's not but also is about two prostitutes and soldier and my mother loved it she was enjoying it very much and she said you know when we get home we don't have to tell daddy about she had a great sense of humor just great I lost her recently and I really miss her very very much but I'm happy to tell you we still have conversations but she really whatever there was that meant to her that it was a stepping stone for me we went we went to see uncle Dom oh I don't know how many of you have ever heard the stories about uncle Donald who sang it around and around and around whatever and every we went I think it was the only black job there my mother never let any of that bother her but then uncle Donald thought he had turned off the microphone and uncle Donald said I hope that holds those little sons of but this week and I said you see he is human and he's naughty and he's just like everybody else so I don't have any problems thinking myself as being in show business there's not a god it's not a you know it's not to be idolized he does surrounding around and around the tree very well but he gets angry and says awful things I was happy to hear that you you you won a scholarship to the Met and that was for opera no I was an alto and of course we did yes opera so because it was a true alto voice I enjoyed that very much it was very challenging and the first things that happened to me in showbiz were musicals my first show was some house of flowers written by Truman Capote and when Harold the music of Harold Arlen I want an award it was really quite an auspicious beginning your first time at about first time out of the box yeah which led to another a few years later Richard Rodgers wrote something for me called no strings and I thought for a while like this was just going to be a piece of cake I was gonna go from one wonderful production to another but then there was a long dry spell very long that's when you learn really all about yourself if you can really go through this period but eventually it came back and I did Sunset Boulevard for a year and a half and that was really hard right the music is difficult to sing it was a different era and the melodious wonderful time I had with the music of Richard Rodgers and and Harold Arlen it was different the culture had changed every place and Andrew Lloyd Webber was a part of the new voice and the new voice had a lot to do with as high as you could possibly sing it and as loud as you could possibly see and it was a challenge but it wasn't beautiful so he wrote one or two beautiful songs and there was one in insensible vile it was just just beautiful but the whole culture has changed definitely theatrically and when you're speaking about the theater when you say the culture it well the theater is you know it's a reflection on what goes on every place else and uh yeah we had changed everything had changed Madison's yes which we continued to do it's um from the outer to the inner we were different people we I think for Andrew to decide to expose us again to what happened to the screen actors when talkies became a challenge to their lives and and many of them committed suicide many young it just wasn't something that they could continue because they were movie stars because they were interesting to photograph interesting to see but no one really knew how they would speak so she lost her mind Norma Desmond and that was great to play it's great to play those over-the-top roles when you can stomp all over the stage and be crazy nice how do you begin to approach your character very carefully hmm I think always the beginning work is the same you read it until you can't read it anymore and it's a part of part of everything you do from eating to walking down the street to talking on the telephone and then when it's that much a part of you then you usually begin to work with the rest of your your company so that you can you can involve the characters of the other people with whom you're going to work you involve them now and what is this thing that you've been building on your own that's a slow process everyone has a different trail to to create for themselves but then as the company comes together and then each job has its own life it's on its own family and that's when it becomes exciting would you say you're most often eager or is there trepidation at that moment when you have to now take the character you've been building the life you've been building and now mesh it meld it with the rest of the cast and the director and start hearing from their input is it always is it always exciting or it's always exciting and it's always filled with joy and fear and leaves you very off center and then it's up to you to pull it in all of it in into a kind of focus that allows all of it to work together it's not the same as doing a nightclub at which I have done most of my life and that's with one person to really be concerned about but the whole show has to be a package that makes this one person work for the audience so they're both very exciting things to do I have enjoyed it very much when you were talking about Norma Desmond and how the silent film characters sound film actors had a difficult if impossible transition sometimes you however are I think in finance we call it diversified you were doing everything the whole time how did your singing inform your acting how did your your live performing it inform your film work how did they all work together well or sometimes not there they're all really the same it's telling story everything is telling story the the the singing is storytelling with with music but still the words are the most important thing for for me and they feed into each other it's it's a wonderful experience to take a song pull it apart find out why as I did the last act we did um with a Joni Mitchell song that was a hit during the 70's and I didn't know anything about it it was not my kind of music and then Joni Mitchell took it and she reduced it to something that was closer to what I was brought up with in the 40s 50s and 60 and the song is called both sides now and it was fascinating to listen to what Joni had done and what she did with it in the 70s and try to pull it into how I feel about music and how I like to interpret music it was a little presumptuous but I think if you're gonna take a step with a challenge that you you have to be ready to be a little presumptuous and when I got through it it was a glorious experience it was almost like doing a three act play you know it's really wonderful when she was working with you no no no I was stealing from her we tell yes stealing from her but she's a good person to steal though what what are you looking from looking for from or what is different when you're looking in what you're looking for from either a director on the film theater side and an arranger or an accompanist or someone like that who's how does it how does your working relationship differ I understand and I can't really tell you that there is a difference it's I want to hear what what that character means to the person who's supposed to write the chart which we don't talk about so much today and music people don't really write charts but orchestrations charts were very important and and the interpretation of the person who's writing the orchestration may have a great deal to do with little changes you might make and what your perception is of this piece of material but it's all a learning lesson I mean doing theater musicals dramas nightclubs as long as your mind is opened and you believe that what you're going to bring to it is as I said you know your own truth you will do what you can to make it as exciting interesting whatever but great artists are all looking for the same thing and that is how do I interpret this thing that I feel inside so that I take you with me on this journey and that's why I think it's it is amazingly similar it's almost the same journey putting a melody to it is that's why this thing worked called musicals you know there's it and it's it's an honor an absolute honor to be able to say I I'm working with Harold Arlen it's an honor to say I'm working with the director Peter Brooke so it's all it's all of a piece for me you know it's it's the same thing really tell me about working with Howard Arthur Harold Arlen wrote over the rainbow he wrote stormy weather he was a Cantor's son who became the darling of the music business particularly with his music for theater and also his songs with popular songs as well and he was a mixture of the synagogue and the Gospel Church and his music says that he wrote I wonder what became of me which is really quite a glorious song so working with Harold was you you entered his world carefully because he knew who he was what he was and what he wanted what he wanted from you so how do you make that comfortable for both of you it's a challenge when someone is his genius it was genius without being so intimidated by him that you can't do your own stuff you know so I loved it I loved I love working with people who are very secure about what they're doing even if they're wrong the fact that they come to it with that kind of assurance and arrogance it's divine we're in New York it's very New York yes Wow was your first day like with him with had to enter that his world carefully did you were you aware of that did you walk in prepared and did it go well yes when you hear his music and you know the things that attracted him is his body of work before the two of you met I think you enter very carefully very very cautiously Truman Capote the same he was not an easy person to to deal with he was really rather demanding but in that demanding you know he said things to me what makes you think you can play a 15 16 year old girl and I said I well you know I really don't know but I think I can't and that's the beginning so it worked and we had a wonderful love affair a no sex I'm not talking about sexual oh yeah but people in in my business have love affairs all the time with with people for many different reasons other than sexual relationships everything will we do about our work is a love affair I mean you can't give that much and be involved with other people to that extent without it having the feeling that everything in you is responding and it's the love affair certainly sex would have been a deterrent to relationship with with with with Truman and with many others as well but it's it's lovely to work with people who are that gifted so going from being an honest knew someone young for I'm sure that how does the relationship change have you worked with some of these people multiple times over the years and how does the relationship change from you being the the person who's perhaps learning or the student in the equation and then as time goes on and you both have success and you come back at another point in your careers well in my career something happened that changed so many people's lives because they had much the same experience television beckoned and I left my Broadway and I became a part of a world I was totally unprepared for television completely as most of us are really on for television but because the work that we've just done is meaningless in this work over here called television it's it's about you know the camera and what sort of character will appeal to you no forgive me but our lowest common denominator you know it's it's it's a medium to make money and it's not about a great deal of making art you know it's making money and I don't put it down it's been very kind to me so I can't put it down but we just have to remember what it is and I I didn't understand that when I went into it it was quite a learning learning process yeah but it came into my life and then I didn't have the opportunity to work with the people that I had started with so I moved into another many of them would not come to California to do television they didn't want anything to do it and I was one of them I several people said to me you're a fool don't you know what television is going to become and I said no I really don't know what it's going to become but I know what it is and it is not something that is fascinating what was the implication what was it going to become huge the whole world was kind of it was bad no but what we were looking at at the moment didn't have a great deal to do with craft mm-hmm maybe for the writers directors it had to do with you know we've got to get this in in 19 minutes and you have to make that impression immediately they have to see that you are such-and-such and hone it so that you can put that on the screen so everything was hushed and and rushed and but there was a glamour to it that I had not enjoyed on on stage I mean I was in living at the Beverly Hills hotel with my daughter my assistant my daughter's cat my hairdresser and 20th Century Fox and NBC took care of me very nicely and I thought divine Julia this is for Julian yeah I'm sorry for Julian 1960 779 or something like that yeah so my whole world turned but you had already been doing television you had already received I believe an Emmy nomination before that brief guesting guesting on this is this was my show and I done lots of musicals we were filled with wonderful musical shows I mean it wasn't just and Sullivan we had lots of other things yeah and then we have the something our beautiful 27:37 piece Orchestra the best writers in the world it was really very heady stuff you know though that era is gone we don't have those TV shows any longer tell me about working on some of those shows but some what was what I assume your agent would call it how did you end up on one of those shows I assume you had to be Diahann Carroll well where everyone watched television when it was new they still do but it was a way to find out what was going on in the business and what was going on so it it informed us and we were we were attracted to it from that point of view if nothing else and I'd been constantly moving up in the business one step to the next and and singing my little heart out to recording and doing quite well and that's how we learned about each other we were always exposed on someone's television show and Ed was very good about that Sullivan bringing new people that we'd not seen before so that the the country could see who was coming along it wasn't hard to find any of the new people coming along so how just take me through like I quickly through a year at this time when you're doing so many things whose how are you choosing did you have a manager at the time yes yes indeed thank you god I still have a wonderful manager mr. hello what's up with me I'm not as easy these days as I was when I was earlier as you get older or younger when you get older you're really are since you think you're a pain in the ass when you're younger but when you get older you are sincerely Thank You mr. Cannella and sitting next to mr. Pinellas my press agent for 20-some odd years is it that one he never talks about you he's too young and and without the combination working together and and enjoying whatever it is that is left over after you've finished becoming a pain in the ass that's what makes it work they contact everything how did you pick and choose where there are situations where the careers would conflict I can't do this because I'm doing well sure there are times when you just you you know you're just not available to do that because you've signed to do that and that's why you have to be very careful to do a Broadway show you have to really clear everything in a way because you know you're in New York and lots of television is out here but it was it was all learning example of something you believe you missed out on or or the converse a situation where you thought you made a mistake and it turned out to be much better actually well I I really made a mistake in my judgment about Julia because I turned it down so many times and I think the thing that was most interesting was when the casting director from NBC and someone else from NBC called to say the least you can do is fly into California and meet with these people who have said they would like very much know if we could work together then you have to remember I had a background I've been around for a while and coming to California was always a problem for me because California was so place that rejected me they rejected me they rejected the color of my skin they rejected my work except do that one performance and then leave so each time that I was in California I made a request that I my part my segment of the show was taped first so that I could catch the red-eye and get the hell out of here it's not good to be around people who don't validate you in everything get away from them so I did not stay here and I think that that was one of the reasons that it was so difficult for me to accept that I would have to come to California to livia for 13 weeks to do television series and it did not excite me you know and I think how Cantor who wrote a wonderful script when we had a first sit down you know what is this thing about you're not wanting to be in California and I told him exactly what I've just told you this was not a comfortable wonderful place for me to be it was a very prejudiced place and a very limited place culturally and and I thought what you know the palm trees are cute but please I have to take care of myself mentally it is amazing and I never thought that would happen I never thought it would happen but being here for that period of time and treated the way 20th Century Fox and NBC treat you thought well you know this is wonderful this is an incredible life I have a big home that they found my daughter is here she's in a wonderful school and it's just wonderful and years many years later I was doing a television show that was Burt Reynolds munitia evening shade and one of the Stars was Ossie Davis who's always been an activist Apple did an incredible man and I said how you enjoying doing this you would never move to California Ruby Dee and Ossie Davis would not California they were East Coast people and they had their own I said how you enjoying doing this show he said I am they just suck you in don't they I say yes they certainly do where do you live he said in a big beautiful house right over there I said and who's driving you he told me he had a driver and I said are you hoping that the show will have a long run he said please forgive me God yes I am so California has a double-edged sword for so many people who are considered quote third-world uncaught so where did this question begin but how about this you were involved then at the beginning of Julia they came to you did you have input into the development of your character right off the top and did it change from what you originally presented with and what ended up on film on tape yes yes and I credit my my writer my writer creative he Hal cam just one of the best writers in this town and he's an old man now hi there you know if I how is his daughter here no she's not he he is really an extraordinary piece of this whole tapestry out here so he went to a luncheon one afternoon and the speaker was Roy Wilkins it was the president of NAACP am i correct yes and he was very moved by the speech because in the speech Roy Wilkins announced to all of them these very successful men of the room all white men that each one had a responsibility for what this magic box called television was going to present to the world and that they should all go home and think about what contribution they could make to help us become much more involved with each other and create something was really American not just white American and and when he told me about that I was very moved and how is a white southerner Jew with many complicated things and I say that all the time I want you know I say that it's important when you're talking to people and you're dealing with them if you're gonna have to work with them you should know who they are you know where they came from and what they think and how they came to these thoughts you have to know all of that before you can really trust each other I guess so anyway the house said to me that he was happy with the fact that I decided to do the show we did have a camaraderie we really did my being out so I didn't know that how had a reputation for being very outspoken very judgmental and caustic and so we hit it off right he when I said I would like to be able to say you know what I think he sort of he was all right will will attend to that when we get there and then later as this show began to take on situations that I really didn't think Hal knew anything about you know and when you're dealing with a black American are there things you have to know something about black America and our specific example yes the child was saying glorious things about certain movie stars and I said how I have not seen any of these people that you're glorifying here in this script because I didn't go to see those movies when I was a child and he said what do you mean and the most interesting discussion was about John Wayne and he told me well John Wayne an American digit and I said well you know do much for my dad my didn't care for that so I didn't see too much huh you didn't see I said that's why I told you we have to talk you know we have you can't decide there's a one-level thing here from this little boy who's my son I'm you know I'm not one-dimensional and either you so give me the same and little by little we and he had a situation where he threw we were supposed to throw a baby in the air and I was supposed to forget to catch the baby and it was a joke of course but I think it was a pillow that I somebody thought it was a baby and I I didn't put my arms out and not supposed to put my and I said hell don't you know that black women have been hired for ever to be the mother of everybody in the world how am I supposed to stand here with my history and let someone throw baby in the air and I just look at it and and tell a joke I know that's part of your background [Applause] so we had wonderful you can see we had a hell of a good time we really did and he would look at me and say you know that makes sense and so we have a black psychiatrist to help us so that we could stay on the right page and not tell this little five-year-old boy to say that John Wayne was the greatest American in the world and the result is that that discussion what did you did it change the name of the Oh John the name was deleted yes yeah it was and rightly so rightly so from the background as he wanted his character Julia to have as the mother of this child might listen so it it was so good wine who were you watching growing up other than Cary Grant oh I thought he was so beautiful um let me see poor my movie stars when I was a girl because I really loved the musicals for singers well I suppose the most overwhelming overwhelming reaction I had was the first time I saw Lena in one of those musicals those MGM musicals if they made all the time but I expected them all to be incredible I mean I expected Betty Davis and Fred Astaire and and Barbara Stanwyck and and Judy Garland and I expected them all to be great so all those experiences were wonderful and as I say if you're the kind of person who watches anything and you walk into it and you take it you take it as a part of your life you there's nothing to do or say if I saw a bad performance I didn't know if I would really recognize it at an early age but seeing Lina on screen in a movie and having to come to terms with the fact that she was not only breathtakingly beautiful she was very well mannered and schooled and dressed beautifully I was so happy that she was there I don't think I was able to evaluate her talent until later I was just overjoyed to see that someone had stepped into a position that I felt was first really at first but I don't I just loved all of the movie stars I did my favorite leading man was Cary Grant and then I fell in love with Sidney Poitier early you were very careful to draw a distinction between falling in love with Truman Capote and and falling in love with Truman Capote we don't quite have to draw the same distinction here with Sidney dull this was my second movie of my is called Porgy and Bess and I had nothing to do with the success of Porgy and Bess it was not a property that I wanted to do at all and I I was as Ozzy day a lot of people were at that time that surely we could you know pony invest was written in nineteen 130 something or other and when are we going to get off of this train this is a ridiculous thing to keep saying that people are walking up and down selling cocaine in on catfish row because they've now moved to Manhattan they're in their downtown Manhattan if you hadn't noticed standing on the corner selling all kinds of things and it would be more interesting I think to examine it from that point of view movie was very beautiful the music is unbelievable it was a bore it was a repetition that we did not need but I'm happy that children are able to see the talent other people involved in them though I'm not happy that they're looking at the characters in the film I don't want my grandchildren to see the film actually so what all right and did you feel that way at the time but yes I refused so no yes this film comes out yeah how did how do you take that walking around well I'm I had to come to terms with it before I flew to California to do the film and they were going to do the film with it without me I I certainly was not the lead well it seems at this point you've come to terms with it and the fact that you've come in terms with the fact that you didn't particularly like it right by the time you I assume came to the same conclusion so you were still walking around while this film is in theaters and everybody's walking around what did how did that make you feel you did you was it a compromise was it oh it was certainly a compromise it was a compromise for all of us was a compromise for Sydney as well but there were certain words that are thrown at you at that moment early and you don't want this movie to become a part of American history and you are not a part of it you don't want this movie to go on and it's not anybody's will do it right yeah let's put you in it and put the people that we know can give this the best dignity the most dignity I don't know how to say that and so you do it and then you don't really talk about it a lot after that you know it's just something that you it's there is that where you met Sidney Poitier or you had you met no I'd never met him before and you were aware of who he was oh yes and what it what is that like to be aware of someone I admire and that kind of presence it's he's an incredible presence if he walked into this room right now in the dark eventually you'd say is that Sidney Poitier is standing over there and so I was overwhelmed I was young and impressionable and and he leaves quite an impression did it make your work more difficult or raising the grade of heights I must tell you at the time it made our lives more difficult we were both married and it was certainly a very difficult time for us to try to negotiate that I had really planned that after this movie this wonderful man to whom I was married the Reuben have a family and so Sidney was a major complication and I was for him as well those things happen can you tell me any stories from the time not about the part that was difficult but about watching him work or working with him it was important that I be there to watch all of us really to watch the network or Sidney is an extremely dedicated actor who examines very carefully before he accepts a role but he's so to watch him not just watch him on set to watch him negotiate the powers-that-be and his he had an enormous presence that really had a great deal to do with the fact that he was not born in this country he was raised elsewhere and he came to this country when he was what 12 or something like that and it's already set the fact that you know all of his presidents were black all of the people that lived around him were black and one was rich and one was poor and so there all black and my experience was exactly the opposite all my presidents were white and the people that lived around me in the area where I lived with my parents were black when I moved my neighbors were all white so we brought a lot of things that's why I say you really have to get to know and I say it now from a great place of understanding if you're going to spend time and work with someone and that means working on a marriage as well you have to know who you're talking to and it took me a long time to understand city and I we may have been together in terms of skin color but we were very very different very different people I know it now that I've been married four times that it takes a long time to get to know somewhat four marriages four marriages more because you of your career or if you had been a make another occupation would there have been four marriages in other words did entertainment show business was that a big determining factor on the beginning and ending it was the determining factor yeah it's almost impossible to do both and to do it consistently and to do it well I mean if you're someone's wife and he's your husband you really have to try to make as much of an effort as possible to be together and showbusiness means leaving leaving that home you can create it but you're not going to be there and did it work you toured with Vic Damone he worked so basically you took you were touring and working together and being together you were saying that being together was important did it work no because Vic knew one thing and that was to be on stage and and I knew one thing that was to be on stage neither of us knew very much about being a partner a husband or wife we knew how to travel and sing and that was the most successful part of our marriage you mentioned a couple times talent and greatness what makes a performer talented and or great I don't know that I've ever seen the definition of that for you ah I don't know that I've ever come to terms with the real definite I think it's maybe something that cannot be defined I know it has something to do with before you are born it's somehow it there's no one in my family who's in show business there's no one in my family who's been attracted to the things that attracted me all my life and there's not a great deal of understanding about what the hell I do so I can't define it that sounds lonely very don't say sorry all right I'm gonna go to a couple of cards what so I guess it's been it's like pornography you know it when you see it greatness [Applause] since there is it isn't a definition of greatness and you know it would you see it can you give me some examples of what you've noted and seen it greatness in performance there are times when you see an actor an actress they can just walk on stage and something will happen to you or they can walk in front of the camera and something happens I remember one of the first times like this is straight Dick Van Dyke the very first time I saw him I thought oh oh my god what is that and it became someone who was an actor dancer he really is a and a very complicated man very not necessarily happy you know but I can't be specific at this moment I don't know why but I I can't be have there been moments when you believe you've approached greatness greatness being grateful you know they asked so much as asked of you as you turn each corner and you have to go there I really know if I can go there at this moment I can only tell you that when you're asked to do something you have to make it great you have to keep working at it until it is as great as you can possibly make it so I don't know that I'm not judgemental with myself about all right so the thing that I did on stage that I enjoyed very much and created a character that I really enjoyed was not a musical was called Agnes of God and I loved it I loved that I could feel sometimes sitting there I'm looking at Geraldine pages know I worship this woman's work and knowing that we were absolutely on a par on par here and we were we were making something happen that Geraldine was resisting as hard as she possibly could and I was making it work anyway that was fantastic that was a great moment she'd make me cry it go upstage and said I got you and then she'll in love me a little and I learned to love her a lot but I guess competition is very much a part of my life you know so greatness pretty complete peace of mind having after after the the bulk of your work saying I did give everything I had I did my best to make I had to say I gave everything I had each time Allisyn somewhere Allison wants to know what guidance her advice would you share with a newcomer to the craft of acting I don't give advice fair enough it's a dangerous thing to do but just make sure that you love it more than you love air but don't don't go there sara is there a type of role I'm going to slightly alter is there a type of role you particularly are drawn to mm-hmm no one that the writer has chosen to explore with some depth yes I'm not very good at saying the coffee's ready or you know inane things like that how do you always trust your judgment in choosing projects well you know as as I come along with these youngsters today I I find that I'm not as sure as I as I used to be because there's so much that I don't understand about what's going on in in the industry and that's been for a while now so when a when a producer creative things we see you in this those words are very seductive you know and if in truth as shonda rhimes who created Grey's Anatomy and I called and I said what do you want me to do on the day that we're going to meet how how old do you see this woman and what is there about me that makes you think I could play this woman she said no no no no no no no I wrote you this woman is you you just come to the reading whatever you do it's you that's that's nice with was she suggesting that had interpreted you I don't quite understand what she said she wrote you what did that mean well she's obviously we'd never met so she'd obviously seen me someplace and are you is it possible to catch you anyway yeah and whatever it was the character that she wrote as the young man who was my son she felt that this woman would have raised that that young man that she wrote in great depth great detail and I I could see that I said I see that and she also knew that but by sitting there listening to the reading and watching the other actors I would understand even to a greater extent what it was that she was saying and it was you know naturally I was very flattering I didn't want to disagree with her so I just really brought my own in and as she became accustomed to my sense of humor she was able to put a couple little things in there that were definitely Diane Cal not asking you to dish or anything like that what were your observations that they were now Grey's Anatomy that was their fourth or third fourth fifth year or something like that they had had a meteoric rise and some turmoil and things like that what were your observations of this cast is young and you said because you were talking about not understanding not necessarily connecting with that I don't remember exact words the younger people you yes yes so what do you observed from a TV set in 2008 what do you see something new something that it was not a part of the workplace that I grew up I was fascinated by the shooting schedule how one scene went immediately into because I've not worked on television in a very long time and also I don't watch television I don't know anything about television I know that there's a hit show called the American American and I'm very proud of the fact that I've never seen it and you know you don't have much of this thing called your mind left after you reach a certain age and you have to be very careful what it is is you expose it to so that it can hold on to it so how does this a so what do what did you observe oh and also um the the the shooting was we didn't do a setup and then the scene it's just the camera kept moving and we were in a scene and then all of a sudden they were walking down the hall and the scene continued and the camera continued so I thought hmm I better learn everybody's part so that I could be ready whenever they say you're up because I didn't want anyone to feel they had to give me special you know special attention or time and that would have been embarrassing so that was a lesson that I learned and I learned that they all knew everything there was to know about that script and about that shooting so they really came to that set almost almost as a part of the crew the director the lighting person the hunter oh oh god she's just watching her I couldn't believe what I was watching she didn't go home and learn her lines and come in and she was beautiful waiting for her lines this lady watched every camera move every it was very very exciting and and I'm thrilled that saundra gave me that that opportunity at this point in my life describing Sundra Oh paying attention to all that did you did you ever direct anything did you ever want a directing I've never wanted to direct anything which is very strange and Debbie Ellen has asked me about that many times the maybe it's changing for me now but I think that having the responsibility of everyone I don't know that I could give to my character if I'm in the piece what I'd like but as Debbie has said she wants me to come to watch her and I will I watched a few directors and I'm still not certain that I want that responsibility that's everybody's life you know that you let you take it none I've had a hell of a time just managing my own what do you want from a director what's the ideal working relationship with a director I want him to be overpoweringly prepared and clear thinking about what what he wants from that scene that actor that I I really am much happier when I have that and yet I want him to be open and I don't think he can be open unless he's incredibly prepared and I like him to like actors I'm not mad for directors who don't like actors some of your favorites well I worked with that brilliant man on Sunset Boulevard and it'll come to much thank you Trevor Nunn and I like very much the way he catered to whatever was we we brought to the table you know we were talking about that earlier and sort of pulled it out of you and and then added his he was gentle with that he had very thorough so that the melding happened almost seamlessly it was great then I years ago I worked with Otto Preminger on a couple of films and he wanted to frighten all the actors and it was adorable because my father always said to me you know you should not be in show business it's not it's not good but I'm giving you this airline ticket and no matter where you go if you're unhappy just take that airline ticket and come home and I had no idea how much strength that gave me and so yes so working without him watching I don't yell at people and carry on and one day he started yelling at me and I said I don't ticket man at home who doesn't speak to me that way and he's my father and if he can't scare me I don't know what the hell you think you are doing we we are both here to make this work I'm not your adversary speak to me with lovely anyway we became friends we became friends yes and he said a lovely thing he said I'd like you to see my art collection I thought is he putting me on he didn't and he really had a wonderful art collection and a lovely wife and I think a child something we had a wonderful time together I'll go back to the car Gilmore RISM got tired over there when you recorded a sleeping bee you said you had a cold years later when you listened to it do you hear you're cold or do you think it's as fantastic as we do oh oh isn't that sweet thank you so much well the reason I always remember that I had a cold is because the high note Harold Arlen sang the high note and it's always a reminder standing there Beckett that's Harold doing that but uh you know is my first musical and look at the people I was working with so yes I think about the fact that I did my first Broadway album with a terrible cold but that's when you begin to learn all of those awful things you have to do for the rest of your life like take cortisone and see the doctor immediately go home and don't speak I have dinner at 4 o'clock afternoon why 4 o'clock you couldn't eat late no it needs 4 hours to do it before you went on yeah do you listen to or your recordings watch your work you recorded work very seldom very seldom which is which are you more likely to do listen to or watch I think watch hmm I think watch because I came to this business of acting after i singing started lessons in six years six years of age six seven years of age something like that and I don't know I enjoy the visual I'm very visual I like that you don't watch TV what do you do what do you do with your spare time I dine I spent my whole life working and watching people dying in night clubs and theatres restaurants they were all dining and I couldn't dine until two o'clock in the morning when I could maybe have some fruit or something and so I dine where is your favorite place in the world to dine oh they're too many to mention I love being in New York really I do there's some wonderful restaurants in New York but we've done much better out here we really are doing better and I came here first time in the 50s and there were no restaurants one or two just the ones with the big donut or the hamburger no no not even no I don't think we had I I speak and I don't know what I speak of I've never been into a McDonald's or those things I don't want in my life but favorite place they a couple places in Paris I really love because the rooms are absolutely beautiful tapestry closes the rooms and Europe dining alone with your friends and they select the wines and they say it's absolutely decadent it's delicious you're you're performing took you all around the world tell me about some of your first experiences outside of the country my first experience leaving this country I flew into London in the 50s and the area that is now for our luggage those were sleepers and it was it was quite special because you know they're people who say who does she think she is you know what does she I mean she just thinks you well I am I mean I'm sitting here telling you about a time that will never come again and all the gentlemen changed into smoking jackets on the plane and this steward served before dinner drinks and then after he came with a little ladder and lifted helped you to climb up to you and I was lying there I could see the sky and he brought a cognac or something I don't know and I see and I thought my god what am I getting myself into what were you getting yourself into heaven a whole new world how do you like London I didn't because the producers that brought me to London this was a funny little hotel and there was no heat and the restaurant was terrible no I try to keep it there though oh I slept under all of my coats and so on and so forth but as I began to move around a little bit I thought London was really a fascinating city and I've grown too careful London very much because my family's there my daughter's there my grandchildren but the the theatre district really fascinated me because I needed it you know I'm from New York it's a great I like something I do but your first time there my first time there was just waiting to be picked up for some little rehearsal it was not it was not memorable really what is your fondest this from Dwight what is your fondest memory from dynasty and was dynasty the dream melding of performing and fashion well it was certainly about nothing but fashion I mean I've asked oh I saw you on dynasty really what was it about I don't know but you were so dynasty was just really a comic strip but it was a very glamorous wonderful time we all had such fun and we were grateful to the audience for allowing us because we were past our prime we were all fifty something or whatever and I guess some 60 something too but we had such a good time and you seem to like us you tuned in often to watch us parading around in these gloves saying absolutely nothing oh dear when they had on a coat it was stable and it was to here and there's a sable hat and just in case I was cool there was a sable muff and we were in a limo and I got out of the limo and I was walking towards door to start the scene and I turned to the script supervisor there and I said [Applause] that was dynasty unbelievable but the errand had that much money in that much power so we did a fashion show how often how often have you had have you made it up in the moment and how do you feel about improv um I love it in class I love it in the class um I have had that thing happen in no strings the play that Rodgers wrote for and I couldn't get past this same place for about three weeks song I couldn't remember the line so I filled in a line a horse appears and then it's May and absolutely nothing but I couldn't remember the line so my dear friend whose name was Richard Kiley excuse me said to me I'm coming to your house of what we're going to do is I will play your part and you will play my part and he broke the spell he played my name is Barbara Woodruff in the play and I played his role for those two scenes and I was able to crack I didn't know what to do every time I got to this place in the I would look at Richards as if to say help me I cannot find the words and we done it for months but that happens that happens it's really strange when it happens but thank God friends yeah oh but all the eight shows a week and all the shows you can remember the single time that that happened to you yes that's amazing it's a terrible thing yes well sure but think of all the times it didn't happen oh that's wonderful mrs. Carroll raise your hand we're not willing to fess up Essence magazine is honoring you later this month at the black women in Hollywood luncheon is that correct that's correct could you tell us the significance of this honor from this magazine and what it means to you well Essence magazine is a wonderful publication that's gone through many metamorphosis weather is that right and I'm happy to see them come to this place in their in the community because they become a much more sophisticated eloquent kind of publication in terms of the language that is used in their articles and how they have everything the photography everything so for them to come back and get me because they gave me this award about 15 years ago is great honor really an honor and I am so proud and happy that they hung in there until I think they absolutely are on the verge of becoming a very important public publication what what do awards mean to you or do they they that's not that's not why we work you know what I mean yeah and it's but it's lovely you know it's um it's very nice to know that someone said oh I know let's give that to Diane Carroll that's very nice and it makes you feel good for a little bit and then I think it's important to hang it on the wall and remember that it's lovely it ain't got nothin to do with whether you're gonna eat next month what is it what is it like to be nominated and not win oh you go to you went and I was so certain that they was mine I think Ellen Burstyn won that year and she was wonderful I thought that first of all I was shocked that I was nominated because it was a small independent film and I didn't think it had received much attention or now this is called Claudine 1917 [Applause] [Applause] [Music] oh that's lovely yeah was a good film it really was and James are always my leading man and he was outstanding I was able to let everything go just everything was against me the world was against me the everything life's love pursuit of happiness was against me I had five children that I couldn't feed and so it was just constantly it's just a kind of thing you love to do mm-hmm you just love to do and the fact that I was nominated was just oh yes I was very very honored how have you been he'll do a do you feel you've been held to a different standard throughout your career different from one I don't know do you feel you had to do more to get the same recognition do more than my white counterpart yes I I think I think you can answer that what do you ask me that question cause it's always there's always more asked of a third world person always and it's a double-edged sword because some of it is very profitable to know that you've been asked to do more it just makes you better but and you don't really know that until later I mean you can say it but you after you've lived it for a while it just have you ever been on stage when a cell phone went off in the audience you just stand there and look at the person and you tell the audience he's over here this is kind of safe [Music] all right mark day hi mark good what was your most challenging role and did you know it was your most challenging role with or at the time and then therefore how did you prepare for it most challenging role other than being Diahann Carroll that's a that one and a mother most challenging law they're challenging in different ways for different things son simple or was very challenging as I said the music was very difficult and also playing a woman who was lost her mind but trying to give her some sat it was a very challenging role but nothing really was more challenging than Agnes because I stood on stage for two and a half almost three hours much of it alone and smoke these awful cigarettes there's nothing to give me a little moment not a song not a costume change wear the same costume through the time that was really and not not lose the place because it's there many there were many things that was similar and I could very easily make a mistake and go back to seams and that's scared the hell out of me it had happened to other actresses and I knew that I was in line for it to happen one night it happened but it didn't take very long I could hear him offstage just and you are really because that means it's someone is supposed to make an entrance that they made already and if that isn't frightening so when when I started and I realized that you know what this feels like and I realized that the play was that dangerous it had that many holds in the potholes I sat down with the offstage hood right and we found keywords so that if I did make that jump back because as you're trying to make the scene work sometimes you go two or three lines you've when you've said oh god that's not where I am so we found keywords and I would kind of walk over towards that eye that kind of freedom because most of the time I was on stage alone and he would say you know silver or anything milk whatever whatever we have selected and throw me to the place where I belonged but that's the play you have to know backwards forward sideways upside down everybody's part because you'd never stop talking for the whole play it's Geraldine and myself and that's it and when Geraldine isn't there it's me anyway do you want to be frightened when choosing a role if you want to look at it and say that scares me does that is that a exhilarating feeling for you ah scares me in the sense that I don't know if I could make it happen scares me the sense of challenge of getting this do that that's that's outside who I have been to this point I don't know if I feel like you do it I don't do it I have to believe somewhere inside of me that I can do it you know I may say you can't do this but there's something inside that doesn't believe that I know I don't know anything about walking out there thinking uh I tried out the West Side Story and I can't dance that's the only time I remember walking on the stage I'm saying I can't do this I want it to be here but now that I'm here I know it's because it's my favorite show I don't know what I said but I knew that I couldn't I felt sorry dick I love the music of it but wasn't it fabulous that's Jenna but I couldn't do it I'm always curious what people's answers are for this and it applies in several areas so I would guess you'd say no that you can't teach anyone to dances that you can't teach everyone no you can't I think act just you can oh you can't or can someone learn yeah they have to have something a germ of it a need for it and they can embellish upon that but [Music] you know I've seen and I've been with people who want to sing and there is no such thing in their body as a melody it's yesterday there but they so devoted to it sometimes you can even enjoy the performance you know because they want to do it so badly but not everybody can sing a melody this is a really silly question and I'm gonna apologize right I heard somebody and outside my window today singing to one air supply song after another at full volume terribly flat yeah have you ever done karaoke no I yes I did yes I did in a snowstorm outside of Reno [Laughter] would you recommend it yeah yeah why not it's a challenge did you do it I I actually worked in a cab bar that had karaoke and window and was singing it was the bartender's responsible so yes I have done karaoke Thank You Diane it looks like a parrot's is it a tea parents lloyd Nolan a joy in the beginning no this happens all the time Lloyd had lived when you're dealing with people who've lived predominantly segregated lives you usually have one or two or three programs in your head as to how it is to be dealt with and I have so much respect for Lloyd Nolan and had I mean I'll probably all my life so I'm in film and every once in a while I would catch him watching me as I was working and we have seen Stan but finally I knocked on the door and I said you know whatever I know I'm taking my life in my hands but I've seen you watching me a couple of times I want to talk to you about it is that Alright and he said come in come in now we talked for a long time and I told him I didn't understand much about television and someone who suffered he was extremely helpful and loving to talk and eventually we learned things about each other raising children became a part of it and he has a son who was ill and did not live with him and we so those areas where we found a bonding helped me to learn how he could help me with my my problem I want to I felt I had a problem with that and he was wonderful about it he was really he was really wonderful Nancy Lee Kelly what's next after the book after the book this is quite a book I worked on this book for six years and there's a lot in the book that's extremely interesting and telling I think it's better after you've seen me because some of it is silly and I don't I think most people don't associate silly with me and I am silly and it's part of me that I like but it's dry you know it's East Coast silly and it is and and I think that some of the stories are worthwhile because they are filled with information about this business of I just have already confessed I've been married four times about this business of thinking you're going to have a career and a home and a family in that it's very hard to you know Halle Berry won the award what last year are you before three years ago and then she decided to have babies and we haven't seen Halle so much if I had anything to say about it I'd say good choice Halle you know get your footing here and find out what you're doing as a parent as a wife I don't know I don't know if she's married it's not my business but she has these decisions to make that we all have to make what did you say oh that I like the book for the most part some of it is probably revealing things that are going to surprise you and I've chosen to to reveal them they're an invasion into my privacy as well as some other people's privacy with whom I was involved but there are life lessons in the situation and I think that's what makes the book valid how does that work is that a a solitary choice do you decide what you are and are not going to reveal do you talk to some of the people that you might be revealing something about first I did with some of the situations yeah some of them there's no need to talk they knew that I was gonna say things that were unpleasant about them as well as myself in this situation and I think that I had an editor at HarperCollins and she was very good and her input was it was quite wonderful younger point of view sometimes in mine because she's a woman in her 40s and we work together as closely as we possibly could we fought together and I think it's an interesting and an interesting read it's not a difficult read there's nothing about it this is the kind of depth that is a confusing confusing it's kind of a joyride really Markus Fulmar have you ever pass on a role and regretted it I can't think a role that I passed on and regretted it I've passed on roles I just didn't think I wanted to do that go there you know it was you know there there's certain films that you feel television as well though I mean there's just you don't feel that story needs to be told again and if they are going to do it let them do it with someone you really do feel that way about it and it's very profound feeling it's and so you walk away do you remember the first time you felt you said no to something I don't know because there's a black actress you you have that so early you know if someone sees you and things that you you have a towel and they go home and they write a script and send it to you immediately because um but I I didn't understand that I'm sorry I'm sorry so you get so many scripts when you're young and you're black optimism because they're looking for someone to do this work black writers and so on and so forth and we had the Negro theater in New York but they're always there and you knew when something was not right for you you also know when someone was not really a writer yet you know and they wanted to be a writer and I'd had some wonderful teachers really marvelous Hector studio I know who thank you Strasburg and and that's just a few was New Yorkers Phil really some marvelous teachers so no I do remember the first time I read Julia because it was called mamma's man I thought what kind of junk is this so we we had a discussion about about the title and because it was really basically about my relationship with my little boy so he was mamma's man and I said you know we've done that enough really it does not talk about how the strict powerful black woman can raise this child and make him in something that can go into the world and face it can we call it that mouth please so they did and Hal didn't mind at all and I had met help Earl and so that was one of my first major no I don't want anything to do with this let you see how that changed was did you I mean is that him as an empowering moment I mean he is it is it do you second-guess yourself do you walk away you think about it for a long time and why is this bothering you and talk about with people that you can trust and it there's nothing empowering about it it's just really understanding a little more about what you're all about and the the it was interesting to me the way we remember things the gentleman marked day who asked a question earlier he said that he remembered as a child watching Julia and he couldn't wait for Tuesdays at 7:30 p.m. it's interesting to me that somebody's the milepost stays with someone they knew it was Tuesdays at 7:30 p.m. he was watching that show now that's daunting not really yeah that's fantastic that makes me feel empowered yeah yeah that's lovely I imagine yeah thank you I like that this is an interesting one Demitri merit me tree anyway you were there at the famous 1962 birthday party gala for President Kennedy that correct yes what was he like President Kennedy did you have a did I have a what and and was Truman Capote therefore that no did you have an amine did you have a relationship or an understanding or a perspective on President Kennedy no no President Kennedy was a man who was very very self-assured about all the women being attracted to him and so there's no mystery about him at all and he he you know I say there's certain men who had that and I don't want to be a part of baseball team I really don't so get you get you little other players not far to me and then he wants to know what Marilyn Monroe was like she was darling I met her when I was pregnant and I was working here this week God we still in California the Mocambo yes on Sunset Boulevard and I was working there and I was pregnant and and the president of United Artists was a friend brought Marilyn to see my shell and I was a little tummy and as soon as I walked over to the booth she put her hand on my tummy and I said what are you doing she said I want a baby I said well you're not gonna she was so warm and so really sweet and it's just too bad that she was so gorgeous and just oozed sexuality I think she could have had a more interesting life if she wasn't so easy but it was a part of her and it was what she was all about so Who am I to know but she said all the caring things that someone who wants to have a child would say she asked all the questions and make the decision did you how did you do this and I told her that I had difficulty becoming pregnant oh she that was the most fascinating thing she'd ever heard so we talked and talked and talked women talked and we hugged and I've liked her I really liked her a lot and I knew she was sad I knew she said I knew she wasn't in control it's the same feeling I had when I met Dorothy Dandridge so where are we now you

Channel: SAG-AFTRA Foundation

Views: 21,457

Rating: 4.9289341 out of 5

Keywords: SAG Foundation, SAG-AFTRA Foundation, Acting, Actors, Q&A, Interview, Diahann Carroll, Career Retrospective

Id: b6HDWLHacnQ

Length: 104min 33sec (6273 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 07 2019