>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington DC. >> Travis Painter: Hello. It's not every day that
we get to have Lady Gaga and RuPaul's Drag Race welcoming
us to the Coolidge Auditorium so this is a great event. Good evening and Happy Pride. >> Woooo! >> On behalf of the Librarian
of Congress Dr. Carla Hayden, I want to welcome you to the
Library of Congress tonight. It's great to see
everybody here tonight for what was a sold-out
event celebrating pride month so we're very excited
about that. My name is Travis
Painter and I'm the chair of the Library's LGBTQ+
employee organization, it's called LC Globe. LC Globe was organized 24
years ago and we are proud to represent the
Library's LGBTQ+ employees. Within a quarter of a century,
LC Globe has provided resources and information and supported
the Library's collections by hosting educational,
cultural, and professional programs. We're excited to
co-host tonight's event in celebrating a
brilliant author tonight. He's the writer of several
award winning novels, including the bestseller
"Call Me By Your Name," and that was adapted to an
Academy Award winning screenplay and best picture nominee. We're honored to have
tonight Mr. Andre Aciman. We're eager to hear him talk
about the "Call Me" book and movie, his memoire,
literary inspirations, and many other things. First I want to thank
our partners who helped make this
evening a success. The LGBT Congressional
Staff Association, CSA, the Senate GLASS caucus,
and the organizers of Capital Pride, of course. I want to encourage you to
visit the Library's display that we have out front
right when you came and you probably saw it. We have amazing items from
our LGBT collection here at the Library. We have iconic poetry from
Walt Whitman, we have some of the manuscripts from the
founding of LGBT activism here in Washington DC, Frank
Kameny, and we have the papers of Jonathan Larson, he was the
composer of musical "Rent," and it has his handwritten notes of how he did the
math tabulation for "Seasons of Love." 525,6... Okay. 525,600 minutes from the
song "Seasons of Love." And so I hope you enjoy
that song being in your head for the rest of the night. We want to remind you
that tomorrow along with the Pride celebrations
for this week, we have another author coming
and it will be Becky Albertalli. She was the author of "Simon
Versus the Homo Sapien Agenda," and that also turned into
the movie "Love, Simon." So we hope you can
join that as well. For tonight's event,
following the discussion, there will be a book signing
over in Little Pavilion, you passed it on
your way into this. And books will be for
sale so you're able to purchase over there. Andre Aciman is an
award-winning writer. He's the writer of many works of
short fiction and non-fiction, including his 1995
memoire "Out of Egypt." And that won him
the Whiting Award. He's also the author of several
novels, including as we know, "Call Me By Your Name," which won the 2007
Lambda Literary Award. And his latest novel
"Enigma Variations." The New York Times describes
Mr. Aciman and his work as "a magnificent
and living thing." And I think we all that have
read his books have found that to be very true. He'll be interviewed
tonight by the Library of Congress Chief Communications
Officer Roswell Encima. And like many of you, he
has read this book "Call Me By Your Name" at least
three times and counting. So please help me
welcome now to the Library of Congress Mr. Andre Aciman. [ "Mystery of Love" Playing ] [ Applause ] >> Roswell Encina: Well
good evening everyone. Thank you for being here and
Happy Pride as Travis said. So we're so happy
that you're all here at the Library of
Congress tonight. And of course, we're
here for this gentleman. So I'm hoping that
you're all anxious to hear what he has to say. You're having such
a year, aren't you? A bit of the past two years. How's it been? >> Andre Aciman: Unusual. Very busy. But gratifying no end. I mean I never expected this. So it was wonderful. And basically the trick
is get a movie made, and then the rest
just falls into place. >> Roswell Encina: Well, as you
see, I've been a complete nerd for the past two weeks and you
know, pouring through your books with all these tabs and stuff. So my boss was very proud of me. Your uncle Billy said in your
memoir "Aren't we or aren't we?" I think he used to say
this when he was boasting about his success or
when he, you know, he did something really good. Could you be asking
yourself that now? >> Andre Aciman:
Am I or am I not? >> Roswell Encina: Yes. >> Andre Aciman: No, you
have to be sort of arrogant. In the most vile manner to
say "Eh, am I or am I not?" And it was a very
boastful thing to say. And when you heard him say it, it was like "Please,
don't say this. Don't boast. We don't boast in this family." But he was all boast
and I don't boast. So, I'm saying, you know, I
wouldn't be writing the kinds of books I write if I
were a boastful person. >> Roswell Encina:
Well, for the folks who haven't read your memoir,
it came out in the mid-90's, "Out of Egypt," it's about your
childhood when you were growing up in Alexandria, Egypt. The characters between
your father, your mother, and all your extended family. There's a lot of fun
stories, a lot of sad stories, wrapped into the crisis
that was happening in Egypt at the same time. How did that shape you
as a writer growing up? >> Andre Aciman: I think I
always wanted to be a writer because one day I wrote a poem. I don't know why
I wrote the poem, but everybody says
"Oh, he's a poet. He's very good." And it was a dreadful poem because I read it
many years later. I said "How could you even
show it to your father?" But they were all very pleased. And so I realized that
if I write more poetry, that I'll get more
sort of accolades. And in fact, they did. The stuff I wrote was gibberish. But it doesn't matter. But I did like the
idea of being a writer. And I think since I was 10
years old I was always invested in the idea of becoming
a writer. I wanted to go to law
school and then I said "You're going to be a lawyer?" I was never going
to be a lawyer. I want to business school
and I thought about it, I can't even do anything
much less sell anything. And so it was always literature
for me, ever since I was a kid. >> Roswell Encina: Well
you talk about like a place that doesn't exist anymore. And it's so beautiful. And you end the book by saying
you always hated the place but on your last night,
you fell in love again. >> Andre Aciman: I did. And that is one of the
biggest thing about writing. Is that essentially it can
change anything you say in a minute. I wrote about Egypt,
where I suffered a lot, and at the very end of
the book, I say you know, here I am looking up to the sea, this is my last night
ever in my whole life. I knew that. In Alexandria. And Alexandria's never
going to be the same. And I never knew how
much I loved this city. Except that I had written "I never knew how much
I hated this city." And my editor said
"You can't do that! You've been saying that you
loved and longed for this Egypt. And now you say you hate it?" I said "You want
me to change that?" And she said "Absolutely,
you have to change that." I said "Fine." So I crossed out
the word 'hated' and I put in the word 'loved.' And it was very easy. But that's what--
that's what writing does. You can make up things
as you go along. And that's the joy of it. Is that none of it
has to be true. >> Roswell Encina: Is that
what attracted you to writing? The making up stuff? I'm-- just based on your memoir, you admit that you weren't
really good at school when you were in Egypt. >> Andre Aciman: I would
as terrible at school. I hated school. I still hate school
and I'm a professor. And I get total anxiety
in the fall. As soon as fall approaches, I
know school is going to start. Summer vacation is
over, I get anxious. And I look at my students, I
say "Aren't you guys anxious?" "No, we are looking
forward to it." Say what kind of
people are these anyway? >> Roswell Encina: So your
memoir was your first major published book. >> Andre Aciman: Yes. >> Roswell Encina: You had a
lot of essays and short stories that you wrote afterwards. Then what was the tipping point
that you decide "It's time for me to write a novel"? >> Andre Aciman: I did. I wrote a chapter of a novel
about a man who meets a woman at a party and they have
a-- they clearly are in love or will be in love
or might be in love. I never made up my mind. But it was published
in the New Yorker. And I said "Okay." And so publishers right away,
as soon as they see anything in the New Yorker
they contact you. And they said "You
want a contract?" So I said "Yes, I
do want a contract." So we signed the
contract right away. I loved the contract. Then I started writing the book,
and it was a difficult book. Basically because the man and
the woman, I didn't want them to have sex right away. I wanted them to
wait a few days. Which people looked at me every
time I told them the story they said "how many days?" And so eventually, I
needed to take a break. And so I started something else
called "Call Me By Your Name." >> Roswell Encina: Well
speaking of sex, yes. >> Andre Aciman: I
wasn't going to go there. >> Roswell Encina: Well
I just want to point out that you are a straight man. >> Andre Aciman: Yes. >> Roswell Encina: With a beautiful wife
and three grown kids. >> Andre Aciman: Yes. >> Roswell Encina: That said,
what, who were your inspirations for these gay characters
and why did you decide to make your first book
about gay characters? >> Andre Aciman:
Well it started, it wasn't even a character. It started with a house. It was a house in Italy and I
was going to go to that house in Italy and I was fantasizing
about the house and then I said "Okay, there's going to
be a bit of romance." And this is all happening while
I'm stopping this other novel which I'm on contract for. So that's not out of my mind. So and then I said "Okay, it's
going to be boy and a girl and he's 17 and she's whatever." And then I said no, no,
no, he's going to have to, it's going to be two guys. And that, as soon
as that happened, as soon as that decision
was made, I decided, I just got consumed. It just wrote itself. As if it was waiting since my,
you know, birth, to be written. And it wrote itself
in three months. And I was done. And I remember I was visiting
Washington with my family and I'm reading in the train
the finished manuscript. And correcting it. And so it was done,
sometimes I think less than three months actually. It was very, very fast. And then I went back
to the other book. It was a disaster. Nobody reads it. >> Roswell Encina: Somebody
on Twitter actually asked to ask you how do
you know everything about the things that matter? I mean that goes back
to what Elio said, it happened on page 72 here. >> Andre Aciman: Yeah. >> Roswell Encina: He says
"I know nothing, Oliver. Nothing, just nothing." "You know more than everyone
around here," Oliver says. "Why was he returning
my mere tragic tone with bland ego boosting? If he only knew how
little I know about the things
that really matter." >> Andre Aciman:
Things that matter in that particular context is
his, I don't know if it's love, lusting for, longing for. Oliver. That's what
really matters to him. At that point in his life,
this is all he cares about. And he's trying to hide it. And so they have
this conversation. Which wasn't easy to write. That was the only time that
I had difficulty writing because I didn't want
him to say "Oliver, I think I'm falling for you." Which would have been very
gawky and awkward and eugh. Okay. I wanted him to not want
to say, but it sort of slips out of his mouth and the other
person immediately suspects what's going on. Nobody knows, nobody
said anything. But they both know what
they were talking about. And I wanted it that way. But what really matters is
that he is longing for Oliver. >> Roswell Encina:
You talk about longing or you describe longing and
I guess lust in "Call Me By Your Name" and
your latest novel "Enigma Variations"
very beautifully. Actually one of the reviews
by the New York Times says "Aciman writes arousal so beautiful you miss
it when it's gone." How do you feel about that? >> Andre Aciman: It's
nice, it's very nice. I forgot that line but it
makes me like some kind of profit of desire, you know? >> Roswell Encina: I
should say though, how, who inspired, or
what inspired you? >> Andre Aciman:
To write this book? >> Roswell Encina: Yes. >> Andre Aciman: There was,
when I was a boy, I was 9 or 10 years old and
I was in Egypt. And there was a beach area where
we rented the house every year. It was the same beach house. And right across the house,
there was a volleyball court where people just go, gather in
the afternoon to avoid the sun. And then they would
play volleyball. And I was 9 or 10. And there was a guy who was
probably 17, 18 years old. I never knew. And I wanted to be his friend. And he was the macho
of the group. He commanded everybody, everybody followed
what he wanted to do. He was the captain of
the volleyball team. I was not even on
the volleyball team. But I wanted him
to be my friend. And it was very disturbing. Because I never quite
understood what it is that I wanted from him. And I still don't know
what I wanted from him because I knew nothing. And if I had suspected
something, I would have snuffed
it out right away. But I, that was the
inspiration for the story. It's about a boy or an
adolescent in this case, who has a very clear
longing for an older man. And I wanted it to be sexual
as opposed to just nothing. And that was the
seed of the story. And it went in its
own direction. >> Roswell Encina: Let's
talk about the title. Or the line in the book. "Call by my your name." Where did this come from? Because it's so tender
and very innocent. I think that's what we all
kind of like about the book. >> Andre Aciman:
Well it's ideally, it's swapping of identities. It means call be my your
name, in other words, I want to have your name and
you're going to have my name. And we're going to
not know where I begin and you end and whatever. But it came to me
because I had two friends and they were a gay
couple, female gay couple, and they had the same name. And so I mean, you think
I would make this up? But they did have the same name. And they were very
close friends, one of them died eventually. But they had the same name
and I always wondered where, when they were having sex and in
a moment-- okay, I'll shut up. >> Roswell Encina: Keep going! >> Andre Aciman: No but I always
thought, "What do they say?" >> Roswell Encina: That
may never be my problem. >> Andre Aciman: But
the idea came to me that if they call each other,
and meaning the other person, what if they took a step
forward and when I call you such and such which is your name,
it's really my name I'm using. And that swapping of identities. I think if you think about
it, the most beautiful thing that can happen in life, it's
not lasagna and it's not Proust, it's none of those things. It is really being intimate
with another person. Being completely shamelessly
intimate with somebody else. In other words you have
no more inhibitions because you've left them out. They've been out. And that I think is
the best thing in life. I can't think of
anything better. >> Roswell Encina: And there's
so many instances in the book that address that from the scene
in Rome to everything else. >> Andre Aciman: Eventually I
had to go to vomit to toilet and to everything just to make
the point if you didn't get it. And of course, don't
forget, fruit. >> Roswell Encina: I'm not
sure if you're opening a window for me to start talking
about that. We'll get there in
a second, though. So how much from your personal
life are the characters? I know you could speak
French and Italian and Greek and Elio does, too. >> Andre Aciman: Yes, Elio does. He doesn't speak
French in the book, he speaks French in the film. But the film basically
figured it out. That you have a cosmopolitan
family. They are living in Italy
but they could be living in North Africa as
far as I'm concerned. And that was a moment of genius
and necessity on the part of the director who
figured there's got to be something more
ample to give that family and that's what they did. I am Elio, I am very
much like Elio. I'm hesitant, timid,
dividend, insecure, inhibited, the whole thing. And I think that's what Elio is. Oliver is somebody
totally different. Oliver is almost arrogant, he's
self confident, he is the kind of person that I
never understood. People who are self confident, I usually don't even
want to talk to them. Because there's nothing to say. They don't want you
to think too much. And so people ask
me all the time "Could you please write
'Call Me By Your Name' from the point of
view of Oliver?" I said "Oliver would
never write a book!" >> Roswell Encina:
He'll correct you. So [inaudible] has called
"Call Me By Your Name" like the successful gay novel. Or the successful
crossover gay movie. Over the weekend, there's
been a lot of discussion. Booker winner Allen Hollingshurt
says "The gay novel is dead." Then a writer from
the Guardian came back and says "Gay stories
still need to be told." Last night I was at an author
event at Politics and Prose with the latest Pulitzer prize
winner, Andrew Sean Greer, and he piped in as well. And he says that there should
be no gay fiction or gay erotica or gay non-fiction and that
they should all just be fiction. And non-fiction and erotica. Where do you stand on this? >> Andre Aciman: Oh,
god, I don't know. It seems like basically
I think there was a time when they said the
author was dead. Then the author turns out
not to have been dead. They said the novel was dead,
and the novel is not dead. We like novels. In fact, we like
19th century novels. [Inaudible], you know. I don't know. I think that people
want stories. Whether they're true or not,
the people love memoirs now. They're consumed. And so I think they're wrong. There's no such thing
as a dead-- I was told when I was writing
my other love story, "Oh, nobody writes a love novel
any longer, those are dead." Well they're not
dead because we want to see romance in the movies. When you go on a
plane, you know, "Notting Hill" is still
played all the time. It certainly is not dead. And there's "Love Actually"
also on the same thing that you have to
click, whatever. So I usually go from
one to the other and I've seen them
a million times. >> Roswell Encina: A friend of
mine describes both the book and the movie as very positive. And I tend to agree. A lot of gay movies or gay novels always
have, it's very tragic. >> Andre Aciman: Yes. >> Roswell Encina:
Either connected to AIDS or they get beat up or just
something really awful happens to them. But with this one, and with
some new novels like the author that we have tomorrow, the "Simon Versus the Homo
Sapien Agenda," it's just love and relationships and I think
whether you're straight or gay, black or white, republican
or democrat, you can always-- >> Andre Aciman: No. >> Roswell Encina:
-- relate to it. But do you agree with that? >> Andre Aciman: I certainly do. I think that, we
discussed this before. But basically the typical 19th
century opera always had a woman who had basically
misled her life or was leading the wrong life. And she has to die at the end. And she dies of tuberculosis. I mean this is the
typical ending, you know. She has a bad cold and she dies. She has to be put away. For those of you who have
seen the movie "High Noon," at the very end of the
film, the woman who's, I think she is Latina, she
has to be gotten rid of. She takes the train and leaves. But she could have been killed. It would have had
the same effect. Basically you want to get rid of the person who's
creating the problem. And as, I didn't want that. I wanted basically,
because it's a distraction. It is true that AIDS existed
and still exists and one has to sort of deal with that. But eventually what really
matters to somebody who is young and desires someone else,
it's, he wants to bring about the object of his desire. Which is to have
sex with a person. And to have a relationship. So to have other things
coming in the way, it becomes a bit
of a distraction. A necessary distraction,
it's politically correct to have that distraction. But fundamentally,
it's not necessary. And the beauty of a romance
is the fact that it can happen in a household that welcomes it
among parents who are not going to give you trouble, there are
nobody in the streets is going to prevent you from
kissing in the street. Nobody's going to beat you up and there's no AIDS
and whatever. And I wanted it then because
I wanted to focus on desire. And not fear. >> Roswell Encina: Speaking
of accepting parents, I think I could probably speak
on everybody here in the room, one of the best parts of the book is the father's
monologue towards the end. >> Andre Aciman: Yeah. [ Applause ] >> Roswell Encina: As
a gentleman who came out in his 20's, I was hoping that my father would give
me the same monologue if he was alive today. What was your inspiration
for that speech? >> Andre Aciman: It
was actually my father. Because my father was a very,
very open-minded person. I've said this in public,
I mean, in the 1960's when we had all the
sexual revolution, he used to make fun of it. He says "What's new? What are they saying
that's new?" Basically "So?" And my father said essentially,
he was always telling me, "You have to go and
sleep with someone. This is not going
to go on, okay?" Because I was always
reading books. >> Roswell Encina: And I think
Elio's father tells him the exact same thing. >> Andre Aciman: Exactly. And I showed my father
the passage, I said, "Do you recognize yourself?" And he did, he did, he
was dying at the time but of course that's
a different issue. But the point is that
my father was such-- he was a brilliant man,
he was extremely well read and had been a great
business man so he had both ends
of the spectrum. And he was a womanizer. There's no question. My mother didn't
like that very much. But she didn't have much choice. But my father had once given me
a piece of advice which stayed with me for the rest of my life. He says that "Whatever
you do with a human being, once your clothes are off,
there is no shame left." In other words, nothing that
you do naked is wrong as long as you don't kill somebody. But essentially that was
such a freeing thing. He said once your clothes are
off, then everything is okay. There's nothing you
should be ashamed of. If you think about it,
there are certain things that we might want to do-- but my father said "Don't
even think of it, do it." And-- >> Roswell Encina:
Before we take questions from the audience, I wanted to
hear your take on the movie. >> Andre Aciman: Okay. >> Roswell Encina: How do
you feel about the ending? >> Andre Aciman: The ending. When I heard about the ending,
because the director said as we are walking
through the piazza and he's mining a
million things, "Oh, at the end of the movie, we're
going to have Elio looking into the camera and he's
going to be crying." And of course I said
well, that's very nice. I told the director of course
I'm muttering to myself, "Who wants a boy crying?" Because that was
not in the book. And it's not the kind of
movie I would have envisioned. Crying in front of the camera because he's brokenhearted,
really? That got me a bit annoyed. But then I saw the film. And oh my god, this is a
better ending than my book. And I told him that. I've said that to him twice because he didn't
believe me the first time. It is an amazing ending. We've never seen an
ending of a film like that. In other words, it
was such a long wait. For those who didn't
know the story, you had no idea where
it was headed. and that is a wonderful,
because you just are incubating in this Italy thing for a while. And you don't know
where we're going. And suddenly, you have a
moment in which Elio realizes that he's really interested,
more than he had let on. And then you have the
very ending of the movie, which takes about three to
four minutes of actual sort of staring into a camera. Where have you ever seen that? With the music in
the background. And I thought it was
a wonderful ending. Because it wasn't just moving,
it was, I think it was a moment of recollection for Elio. To basically, he's going
through the whole episode of their summer together
and then suddenly, as you're watching the
scene, and I don't know, how many of you have
seen the film? Oh, okay. Fine. But basically at some moment,
it's a wonderful moment, because suddenly, and this
has never happened before ever in my life, you see
the credits coming on. And as soon as you see the
credits you say "Oh my god, this is the end of the movie. The story is over. Oh gosh." Basically because
you thought maybe there's hope, maybe something is
going to happen. And as soon as you see the
credits, there's a kind of finality about
credits and they come in very softly, unannounced. There's no clamorous
music in the background where that's the
end of the movie. You pick up your coat
and you want to leave. Here you don't. And so you want to stay
until the very, very end. I thought it was a
wonderful ending. >> Roswell Encina:
Who read the book? But I mean, there's
that whole part in Rome. The whole [inaudible] syndrome. I mean, I think it
kind of illustrated of what could have been. And I felt like that's what
was missing from the movie and I kind of wanted
to see that more. Do you feel the same
way or is that just me? >> Andre Aciman: Well, when
I met James Ivory and Luca, I met them together
in a restaurant. And they said "This
is what we want to do, we're really very excited." Yeah, of course they
have to tell me that. Okay. And I'm going
"Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." They say "Well, we're
going to sort of dilute the scene in Rome." I said "Well that's
fine, yeah, go ahead." "Actually, we're going to
reduce it quite a bit." I said "Yeah, sure,
I can see that. That's fine with me." "Well, actually Andre, we're going to eliminate
it altogether." And I'm going "Okay, fine,
you know, it's fine." But it also explains why there's
a need and talk of a sequel. Because the Roman part for me was the most
intellectually satisfying. Because nothing happens in Rome. But they are together
and they're going from one restaurant to
a bar to a book reading to a company together. And you suddenly have
the feeling that Elio for the first time in his life
is among adults and he says "This is the life I've wanted." To just be in Rome on
a evening with people who have read all the
books in the world and know all the
music in the world. "And I'm among my own." And he's there, and
he's with Oliver. And people are talking
about them. "Look at these two,
they're totally in love." And basically it's the most
welcoming thing he's ever seen. So that part is missing
from the movie. And so they moved
it to [inaudible]. And it's a shorter scene. But I understand that
the Roman thing can eat up the whole movie. And it made perfect
sense to avoid it. >> Roswell Encina: You
mentioned a sequel. Do you think there's enough
there to make a sequel between the scenes in
Rome and the flash-forward at the end of the book? >> Andre Aciman: The sequel is
going to be a bit of a problem. Because you're going to have
to bring in novel information. And that makes me a bit nervous
because it might be districting from what is actually
the story itself. So that the story
might move elsewhere. And we don't know
where that might be. And we still don't know that
there is going to be a sequel. >> Roswell Encina:
I mean there's talk that they may fold
in the AIDS crisis. >> Andre Aciman: Yes,
he wants to do that. Because he's been told
"There's no AIDS here. What are you going to do?" And okay, fine, we're
going to have AIDS, okay. But it's still up with talking. We're just talking, so. I have no idea if it's
ever going to happen. >> Roswell Encina:
Speaking of the movie, how many of you caught
that he's in the movie? He's, if you watch it again,
he's one of the two guests, you know the couple
that was gay? [ Laughter and Applause ] I honestly caught it on my
third time I watched it. I didn't really notice
it at first. How was that? >> Andre Aciman: It was
the most brilliant piece of acting in the movie. [ Laughter and Applause ] No, it was, basically I arrived
in Italy, they said "We want you on the set," so I said
"Well I'm going to go to-- ", we arrived in Milan, and
so I said "I'm going to sleep" because I wanted to catch up. He said "No, he wants
you right now." So I go there and they say
"We want you in the movie." I said "What do you
want me to do?" They had asked for my size and I never understood
why they wanted my size. But they put me in
this ridiculous custom and because I made the
characters ridiculous. There was a reason. And then my partner
has the same suit on. So we both look totally
ridiculous. And he's the producer of
the film, the partner. So we were like basically, as
I like to say "free talent." Talent is in quotation marks. But it was wonderful. It was a lot of fun. I was not nervous,
he said, you know, "You can say whatever you
want, it doesn't matter." And I did. And it was a lot of fun. >> Roswell Encina:
Well it looked like you were having
a lot of fun. How many takes did you do? >> Andre Aciman: Four. Which was nothing, if
you think about it. But it wasn't that important. It was almost incidental. But it brought up something
about Elio which is, I thought that the scene was
important for me as a writer because I wanted to have the
cliche gay couple come in. And as the father says "Do you
dislike them because they're gay or is it because
they're ridiculous?" So, and they are ridiculous. And what I wanted
is on the same night that these two guests are
there being whatever they are, ridiculous or whatever,
they're a good couple, upstairs, Elio and Oliver are going to
have their first night together. >> Roswell Encina: Midnight
was going to happen that night. >> Andre Aciman: Yes. And so I wanted the
contrast to be there. And they kept it. >> Roswell Encina: I know
everybody here probably wants to ask, now they know that
you were in the movie, how was it with, you know, Armie
Hammer and Timothee Chalamet? >> Andre Aciman: You know what? They're wonderful people. Armie Hammer called
me Mr. Aciman. I said "Are you joking?" I mean he's very nice. And so Timmy is also very nice. He went to school in the same
school where my kids went. So it's a whole upper
west side thing. And lovely, lovely,
lovely both of them. And Michael Stahlberg
is also very nice. He's much younger than
he looks in the film. And I felt he should have
gotten an Oscar for that part. Just for the monologue,
just for the-- he needed it. It was the best thing
I've seen in years. >> Roswell Encina: I love
that you call him "Timmy." >> Andre Aciman: Ti-mo-thee. Okay. >> Roswell Encina: So, let's take some questions
from the audience. I know you're dying
to hear from everyone. So there's going to be people
running around with microphones like Phil Donahue and Oprah. So. I'll let you point to them. >> Andre Aciman: This is the
first time I see the audience. Whoa, there's a lot of you. >> So after I read the
book the second time, I read "Enigma Variations." And I was really struck
by the intersection between the two books, especially because the San
Clemente syndrome discussion in Rome at the end of
"Call Me By Your Name" is about bisexuality, which is
a theme of Enigma Variations. I'd love to hear how you
think the two books connect to each other and especially
about the first section of Enigma Variations, which seems very
parallel to young Elio. >> Andre Aciman: The first
section of Enigma Variations, for those of you, I'm not
going to give away the story, but it is about a young
boy who's 12 years old who has a crazy, crazy crush
on a man who's in his late 20's who is a cabinet maker and comes to their house to
fix the furniture. And he goes and visits the
cabinet maker's shop almost every day eventually
after he has his tutorial in Greek and Latin. Because he failed his exam. And his mother makes him feel
very badly about having failed, she hates him, whatever. It is the same story
in many respects. It's as if I hadn't
worked out something in "Call Me By Your Name." It's in Italy, it's sort
of the same situation, except the boy has no
sense of what sex is. Now kids at 12 know everything
there is to know about sex. When I was 12, I knew
absolutely nothing. I'm not going to be specific. But you understand. The reason why is because
it was that same story again with that guy already who
when I was 8, 9 years old, and I was very interested
in becoming his friend. And I wanted to play that again. It's as if I hadn't finished it. I hadn't worked it out. Enigma Variation, as
Call Me By Your Name, assumes that everybody
is bisexual. And that is a given in the text. Now you may agree, you may
disagree, that's another story. But the fact is that in
Call Me By Your Name, Elio has a girlfriend,
it's in the book, he has seen prostitutes
before that in the city. And it's done very sort
of cagily but it's there. And you don't know what the rest
of his life is going to be like. You have no idea
that when he speaks of subsequent love
affairs whether it's with men, women, or both. And you have the same
feeling about Oliver as well. There's a moment in Call Me
By Your Name for those of you who read the book when Elio
goes to visit him at school and Oliver doesn't
recognize him. And he immediately suspects that they may have met
in a very lush place. And suddenly it goes away because he suddenly
realizes it's Elio. But I wanted that, these sort
of insinuations to be in place. And in Enigma Variation,
it's the same thing. He has a girlfriend, he's in
love with a man, he's in love with a girlfriend, again. She tells him that he
should go back to his man because that's where he belongs. And eventually there's
another revelation at the very end of the book. So you have a sense that everything is open,
everything is fluid. And I do believe that
everything is fluid. In everything. My nationality, my religion, everything about me
has always been fluid. And I believe that that's,
if ever I had a place, it would be in no man's
land between two opposites. >> Roswell Encina:
You mentioned faith. Many, most of your books,
including Call Me By Your Name, faith has a big part of it. Is that a conscious
decision, or? >> Andre Aciman: Faith. I am Jewish. And I don't practice
Judaism at all. I was not bar mitzvah'd,
I was asked. And I said no. Okay. That's my father. And I don't believe
in any Jewish rituals. I've been to more churches
than I've been to synagogues. And in fact, I avoid
all religious houses. The house of the lord is not
for me, I'm not interested. And so except that
there's a sort of, a sort of a spasmatic appearance
of Judaism in most of my books. >> Roswell Encina: And
they both, Elio and Oliver, connected because of this. >> Andre Aciman: Yes. It's as if there was some
sort of connection or bridge between them that was there
before even they recognize each other, the Jewishness was a sort
of a statement of some affinity between them that they
don't realize they have. But that's never been
the case with me. I know that when I met my
wife, I went out with her because I had forsworn
going out with Jewish women, I was never going to go out
with a Jewish woman again. And I thought she was Catholic. And so I started speaking
about Christianity. And she goes "I don't know
about this, I'm Jewish." And I said "Oh god." >> Roswell Encina: Let's
take our next question here. >> Great, thanks so much for
being here and for writing such a wonderful novel. One of my favorite parts of the
book, which is hard to translate to any movie, is your use of
various literary references. You know, Elio is very well read and cites a lot of
different authors. And I was wondering if you
could comment more about that. Particularly the use of Dante,
you know, an Italian poet, who, you know, puts homosexuals
in one of his circles of hell and so, but like reclaiming
some of that language to tell of their love story
is very powerful. I was just wondering if you
could comment more on the use of that reference
and any others. >> Andre Aciman: Well,
Dante's references to homosexuals, there's
quite a few. I think in 15 and 16. And he's extremely nice. Very kind to his teacher,
who was a homosexual. But I find that literary
references are sometimes, they're not an attempt
on the part of an author to show off his novel. That would be very bad. It's in bad taste. It's as if saying that Montagne
was showing off every time he quoted a Latin or Greek writer. That's not the case. It is a shortcut to a
bigger piece of information that an author doesn't want
to get into, but he assumes that you will understand
the reference. If you don't get the
reference, it doesn't matter, it doesn't change the
story in the slightest bit. I mean there's a line by
[inaudible] in the book itself, Call Me By Your Name, which
is a beautiful verse about, it's between "never and always." Actually it's between
always and never. And I always believed
that this is where I live. Between the always,
I've always wanted you, I've always loved you,
and I will never have you. You know? That's really
what I write about. So references are plentiful, but
they're not meant to intimidate or to offend or to infuriate,
as some people have said. The most important reference,
and I'm just going to say this, is the third chapter, which
is in Rome, and it takes place where they're all
having dinner together. It's very much of a banquet. And eventually somebody comes in
whose head have arrived earlier but he got lost in his car. And he's drunk now and he
comes in now and makes a speech about whatever, desire
and whatnot. And the whole thing is taken
out of Plato's Symposium. Now do you need to know that? No. I'm having fun
as an author with it because it says something
that I want only the people who know to appreciate. And trust me, nobody has. >> Roswell Encina: We'll
take a next question here. >> Hi. I wanted to ask you,
I was living in Florence when this movie came out. And I was actually trying to
avoid it because I didn't, I was told by a friend of mine
that it was this huge love story and I was going through
a break-up and I was trying to
stay away from it. And I got dragged
into the theatre and this amazing thing
happened in Florence where suddenly just
the rainbow kind of came out of the woodwork. It was hiding while I was
there for most of the time and I hadn't seen it and I hadn't been near
it in a long time. And I didn't realize
how much I missed it. In what way do you look
at your work as operating in this global space
and in what way-- I don't know, what I'm
trying to ask I guess. Because I mean, in China
it got rejected from, or there was a conversation
about pulling it from the itinerary
of a film festival. So I mean, in what way do you
view your work as operating in this global, public
space and-- >> Andre Aciman: In this globe? I'm sorry. I'm having a hard time because
there's a lot of resonance. >> It's okay. In what way do you view
your work as opening spaces and what do you think
about the reaction that this piece is getting
on the global scale? >> Andre Aciman: Oh. Let me put it this way. I'm a very self conscious
author. In other words, there's
very little that I say or do that I haven't mulled
quite a bit. Even if it's done very fast. I think I'm maybe one of the
few writers, and this is going to sound terribly
arrogant, I don't mean to be, who really know what
they're doing. Many authors will tell you
that "I know what I'm doing." And maybe I don't
know what I'm doing. But for me the most important
thing is the sentences. The style. What does the style
do to someone? In other words, if
you're a decent writer, anything you say provided it's
done within a certain kind of style, with a particular
kind of rhythm and cadence, whatever it is, what you're
asking a reader to do is to follow in your footsteps. You're giving them your hand. You're walking them. And you say "Okay, now
we're going to stop because there's a comma here. But don't stop walking, we'll
take another few steps further. Now there's a semi-colon, we're
going to stop a bit longer, now catch your breath." But once you do that to a
reader, what you're forcing them to do is to believe everything
you say, trust in what you say, and basically open up to you. Basically, to use a cliche, you're introducing the
reader to himself, herself. That's the point of
the whole exercise, as far as I'm concerned
as a writer. Is I'll say things about myself,
and lay myself open to whatever. But in fact what I'm trying
to do is by doing that, I'm forcing you, or at least
inviting you, to open yourself up to what I have to say. And at some point,
we become really like very, very close friends. And you're saying you know, I've
always known this about myself, I've known it, you're
not telling anything new. But I never quite considered it. And I think that's what I
want to bring to people. So it takes a lot of work
because it's all, in my case, it's all not in the
story, not in the plot, there's hardly any plot in
anything I write, it's not even in the characters, whether
they're flamboyant or not, it's all in the style. And that's why I said, an author who doesn't understand style
should maybe go back to school. >> Roswell Encina: You talk
about Italy a lot in the book. >> Andre Aciman: Yes. >> Roswell Encina: I should say that country should
give you a sort of award because I'm assuming you
increased tourism there. I know-- >> Andre Aciman: People
go to [inaudible] now. >> Roswell Encina: There's
a lot of [inaudible] going and even touring the
house or the villa where the movie was shot. >> Andre Aciman: Yes. >> Roswell Encina: I understand
it's for sale and people are-- >> Andre Aciman:
Nobody's buying it because it needs a lot of work. But no, I think that Italy for me is really a
metaphor for the body. For pleasure, for desire. For all those wonderful things that basically make
life worth living. And for love. >> Music plays a large
role in the book. And music plays a very, very
large role in the movie. So I was wondering if you could
talk about your relationship with music, do you play
instruments, or, and then talk about how you brought
it into the book and also what you thought
of the filmmaker's choices and the selections that
were included in the film. >> Andre Aciman: Sure. Well let me start
with the selection. Because I've gone
public with this. When Luca Guadagnino told
me they were going to, that Sufjan Stevens was
going to compose two songs, I said "Oh, that's great." The problem is that I had never, ever heard of who
Sufjan Stevens was. Never even known, I said
I was being nice, okay? And so I went, I spoke to one
of my sons and he said "Oh, he's very famous, how
could you not know?" So and it was not,
I mean for me, the book has only
classical music. And all my books have a
lot of classical music because for me it's one of the
ways in which I punctuate what, again, same thing as
literary references. You punctuate what is important
to that particular sensibility in the book or in the
voice of the character. But I think that the music
that was played, I don't even like John Adams, the composer. I know that Luka adores him. So we don't get along
on that, big deal. But I do think that the use of
the piano music at the beginning of the film is magnificent. And I think the closing song by Sufjan Stevens is
absolutely amazing. In fact, I own the music, I
listen to it occasionally. And it works. It's the soundtrack. Even the Italian songs
in the film I like. >> Roswell Encina: So
you must be very happy that they pretty much verbatim
copied what was in the book and translated it into the
movie, that whole piano scene. >> Andre Aciman: Oh yeah, yeah,
that was, that's the Bach, [inaudible] and [inaudible]
thing. I love that the thing,
they kept it. And I think they did it
so well because at some-- I didn't have that in the book,
but when Elio plays the music with another variation, this
kind of savage [inaudible] one, Oliver says "Okay,
okay I get the point." So he walks out. And at that point he plays
it the way Bach would have written it. And Oliver comes back into
the room and sits down. And it's a wonderful,
intimate moment between them. >> Roswell Encina: Beautiful. >> Andre Aciman: I was
very happy that they kept-- they kept a lot of the
stuff from the book. So how could you not be happy? >> Roswell Encina: Let's
take another question. >> Mr. Aciman, thank you
for being here tonight. This is actually a good time for
the question that I had in mind. The life of the mind plays a
central role in the relationship between Elio and Oliver. They share language and
music and sculpture. They banter back and forth. That could have been about
tourism or food or sports. It could have been anything
that they might have in common that you could have
expounded upon. Why did you choose culture? What's special about culture
in the life of the mind in a romantic relationship? >> Andre Aciman: Good question. First of all, I know
nothing about sports. I don't. I just, I
don't, I can't stand when I hear it in
the background. I just don't like sports. The best I can do is watch
tennis and then I get bored. And I play tennis, so. I do like performing, but
I, the whole sort of-- I think that culture is
the only thing I know. And so I wanted characters who would basically not fear
basically discussing culture with one another. And because culture is
the highest thing I know. I mean, and I treasure it. Classical music, classical text. The canon for me is
extremely important. These are things that I consider
are the base of a relationship. It can be of course, if they
were both interested in pugilism and they wanted to discuss
it, that would be fine, too. It would bring them together. But I know nothing about boxing. So, that's out of the question. But they do discuss
enough culture. And Elio is so well read
that he mentions people that Oliver had never heard of who had just discovered
a few weeks earlier. And he's impressed. And yet Elio knows
that, you know, all this culture doesn't
add up to anything. Because what really matters to
me are the things that matter. >> Roswell Encina: What
things that matter? >> Andre Aciman: The
things that matter between you and me basically. And I think that's a reduction. So it's, again, it's not that
I'm elitist, it's what I know. And I felt very comfortable
moving from [inaudible] to Homer to Heraclites to all that stuff. It was comfortable for me. It was easy. >> Roswell Encina: We
probably have time for two to three more questions here. >> Thanks. Bonsoir, Monsieur. Thank you for being
here tonight. I mean your movie, your novel
has really changed my life, I have to say. I just want to say I
came, I just arrived from Switzerland a
couple of hours ago. I'm here actually for
business but my friend Kim here from the Facebook group told me that this event was
taking tonight place so this is just an example of
how you bring people together from around the world. My first question is are
you going to come to Europe at some point to give
talks like these tonight? And my second question is you
were speaking about a sequel, you were talking about a sequel. If you're familiar
with Before Sunrise? Takes place in Vienna,
which is my hometown. And it sort of has some
similarities maybe if you talk about the chapter in Rome
and Before Sunrise and maybe that could be an
idea for a sequel. >> Roswell Encina: Thank you. That's a good question. >> Andre Aciman: Actually yes,
it's a very good question. And the thing is that Luca
Guadagnino, the director, has brought up you know,
the triple series of films. And also the Before
Sunset and After Sunset and whatever it is in between. And that is a model for a
story that is not ending. And that we don't
want it to end. One of his arguments is
that he's trying to wait for the actors to age a bit so that he can capture them
slightly later in life. And that's a terrific idea. Then the other one is
I am going to Europe. In fact in a couple of weeks. And I'm going to be all
over Italy to speak. And I adore speaking in Italian
because it makes me very happy. Even though I make a lot of
mistakes, but it doesn't matter. And then there are other
places that I'm mostly going to South America as well. So I mean, there's
something going on. And it's not unusual, I'm sure
the Godfather has played all over the world. And I like the Godfather
because whenever I see it on TV, I'll watch it. But there's something
in this story that basically moves people
beyond their borders in a way. And that appeals to them and
tells them there's some form of love out there
that is desired. And not just to be
respected and tolerated, but that is actually desired. And when people love to see
that, and they respond to it. I mean the ironic thing is that
in China, it was slated to be in the Beijing Film
Festival, then they sort of removed it from that. And the Chinese people who have
read my book, there are many, many of them, and they
watch it all illegally on their computers, you know. And I have never had a problem with people downloading
my books and whatever. I don't care. You know, the technology
exists, take advantage of it, that's the end of it. I have no problem with that. But it is a wonderful thing to
hear that people who are living in countries where they
cannot watch this film or read this book
basically have to go through all kinds
of shenanigans. They can't even order, I have a, I met a kid from Iran who's
translating the book in Persian and I said "But you can't
sell this book in Persia." He says "Doesn't matter,
people will read it anyway" because there's this
whole network of people who basically pass information
from one to the other. And it's wonderful. It's almost like Tiananmen
Square happening again. >> Roswell Encina: Two
more questions here. >> Hi, yes, again, thank
you so much for being here. And I wanted to talk about the
narration, which I feel is one of the most appealing
aspects of the novel. Elio's narration. I think you tap in very well to the hypersensitivity
of first love. So I think my question
to you is do you see Elio as an unreliable narrator? Is he somebody that projects
his insecurities onto Oliver and his family and friends? >> Andre Aciman: The
answer is I don't know. Because you don't have
enough information. The unreliable narrator
is also dead, by the way. I don't know if he's unreliable. What I wanted him to
do is make mistakes. He, basically when he assumes that Oliver has a
particular personality when he's wearing
his red bathing suit, but when he wears the
green bathing suit, he is more welcoming,
and blue is even better, and yellow you don't know. Okay, he knows he's
interpreting in the void. He knows that this is not true. But he likes to see patterns
because when you're in love with someone, and desire
someone, you cannot say anything to them, you want to understand
what their life is like. So you're trying to take
guesses at what are they doing? Who are they really like? And there's a wonderful scene
in the book where he says "I know he sees other
people at night. I don't know mind,
I'm not jealous that he's with other people. I just don't want him to turn out to be somebody
totally different when he's with other people. I want him to be
the Oliver I know." And that's I think the biggest
danger when you're jealous of somebody who is
cheating on you is that they become
somebody totally different with different people. You want them to be the same. Okay cheat on me all you
want but as long as I know that you are who you
are consistently. So I, he's interpreting. That's-- it is about
adolescent love but it's also about adolescent love when it is
constantly trying to make sense of what it is, and what
the other person is doing. And it's constant
interpretation. Constant. It's tireless. And half of the time it's wrong. And it admits to
itself "Oh, I was wrong. He was not doing that. I was misinformed." That sort of thing. I don't know that I'm
answering your question. >> Roswell Encina: We'll
do one more question. >> Hi, thank you so
much for being here. I just wanted, I guess we
can kind of end on this, it's a nice note to end on. Any advice, you know, obviously
you've peppered in a lot of advice and thoughts
on love and writing. But any final advice you have for young lovers
and young writers? >> Andre Aciman: Oh, god. The one advice I have, I
always say this, is patience. Because it takes, experience
is not necessary for a writer. Because [inaudible] observing. And intuiting and projecting. You're constantly projecting. You don't need the experience,
"I haven't had enough experience to write about this and that." You don't need it. You can imagine it and
that's good enough. But it's patience. Because that some point, you
will know, you will just know, you're no longer
writing for yourself or for the publishing
world, you're writing because what you're
doing is important. At some point, you just know. Now, you may be mistaken,
but it has to feel-- no, it has to feel
totally important. In other words, I'm going
to sacrifice this whole year and I won't take this job, I
won't do this, I won't do that, I won't travel, I
won't go out at night because I need to write this. It matters to me. It matters to me. And that's the beginning of it. Then the other part is the
probably more difficult one. Is to read good writers. Not just published writers. Good writers. The ones who really changed,
basically who change us. Who changed humanity. I mean you can't read The Iliad. Sorry, this is boring. You can't read the
Iliad and assume and that it's just
another story. The Iliad changes you. You can't read Proust
and say "Okay, this is about a tormented
rich kid." No, it changes who you are. It has to change you. Otherwise, you don't
know how to read. But those are the, I
mean basically you have to choose a certain
number of texts that you are willing
to learn from them. Because they also happen to
be great craftsmen as well as great thinkers
and great writers. They're really good craftsmen. And ultimately it all boils
down to me in this sentence. How you're going to lead your
reader down this sentence. And that's important. Magazines will not
teach you much. >> Roswell Encina: That's
a lovely way to end it. I'm actually surprised no one
asked about the peach scene. >> Andre Aciman: Nice audience,
thank you for not asking. [ Applause ] >> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress. Visit us at LOC.gov.
