- I'm going to react to an
old Dolly Parton interview that's gaining a lot of attention lately. My older brother recommended
this one, actually, and he was one of my first
subscribers almost six years ago. And he is still watching. So this one's for you. So we're gonna look at how
Barbara Walters and Dolly Parton, handle themselves here. And I welcome you to
offer your own comments in that section below. I'll put a link to the original video that I'm watching from that channel. And thank you, Happy
Mag, for re-posting this. For some background, this interview happened in 1977. Dolly was around 31 years old and Walters was 16 years older than her. I believe about 47 at the time. So by then, both Walters and Dolly were
already known public figures. Dolly had had huge hits
already like, "Jolene," and "I will always love you". She was on a popular TV show for years. Walters was an established
and respected TV journalist. She was interviewing
people like Fidel Castro and other high profile figures. From an educational standpoint, it's true that you and I won't be in high level interviews like this, but we will find ourselves
in difficult conversations, job interviews, and handling questions and
answers after presentations. This conversation has a
lot of lessons to learn about what to do and what not to do. So we'll take this one chunk at a time. - Dolly, where I come from, would I have called you a hillbilly? - If you had of, it would've been something very natural but I would've probably kicked
your shins or something. (Dolly chuckles) No, actually- - But when I think of the reason, I'm thinking of your kind of people. - I think you probably are. The people that grew up where I was, were the ones that you would consider
the "Li'l Abner" people, "Daisy Mae", and that sort of thing. They took that kind of thing from people like us. But we were very proud people, people with a lot of class. It was country class, but it was a great deal of class. And most of my people
were not that educated but they are very, very intelligent, good common sense. "Horse sense," we called it. - First, Barbara Walters' questions here, are already fairly insulting. She's deliberately communicating in an "Us vs. Them" mindset. She says, "Where I'm from, would I have called you a hillbilly?" - Dolly, where I come from, would I have called you a hillbilly. - She contrasts, "Where I'm
from" with your kind of people, and even points at herself and then points at Dolly. The word, "Hillbilly," is considered an insult. But I love how Dolly playfully says, that had Walters said that, she probably would've kicked her shins. But Walters just looks
at her with a stone face and interrupts Dolly as she's trying to answer and asks her again. - But when I think of hillbillies, am I thinking of your kind of people. - I think-
- We're one segment in here and she's already said hillbilly twice. Walters is trying to
use a soft tone of voice as she asks her questions. But I don't see the
benefit of these questions in the first place. She's not showing any goodwill. She's not trying to
establish any common ground. Her questions seem designed
to antagonize Dolly but the big news here
is how Dolly answers. She takes the high road. She stays composed, stays 100% positive. She describes the people
in her hometown community as proud people, people with a lot of class. - Most of my people were not that educated but they are very, very intelligent. - She's polite, respectful. And if you only heard Dolly's response, her side of the conversation, you'd never know that Walters'
question was a cheap shot. You can see the different approaches here in the conversation, already very clearly. Check plus for Dolly Parton, check minus for Walters. - Dolly, did you look like
this when you were a kid? - [Dolly] Not quite. - I mean, you didn't have the blonde wig. But when you went to school, when you were 11, 12, 13, was it this about you? - Well you mean the full figure? (both laugh) - [Walters] Yeah, that's what I meant. - Yeah, I thought that's what you meant. Well, actually, I've always
been pretty well blessed. As a child, I grew up fast. Other members of my
family have done the same. - My assistant asked me something and I'm gonna blame it on her because I wouldn't have
had the nerve otherwise. Is it all you? (Dolly chuckles) - Well, I can't show you
here right on television. - I'll take you word for it. - I get asked that question. I always answer that by... Because people are in
all of the whole thing. A lot of people say I have. A lot of people say I haven't. I always say that if I
hadn't have had it on my own, I'm just the kind of person
that would've had this made. - You can see Walters give
Dolly the elevator eyes for these questions. She looks her up and down and she asks if Dolly
looked like this growing up. She points at Dolly's body and she asks, "Is this all you?" Walters literally blames her
assistant for this question. - My assistant asked me something and I'm gonna blame it on her, because I wouldn't have
had the nerve otherwise. - This is an old version
of a journalism trick. "I'm not asking. People are asking. I'm just reporting." But look, Dolly's been asked
this question many times before about her, "full figure," as she puts it. This is familiar conversational territory. And she handles this personal and potentially rude comment with charm and class. She was obviously more
comfortable talking about it than Walters was. Again, check plus for Dolly, check minus for Walters for asking very stereotypical questions. - You don't have to look like this. You're very beautiful. You don't have to wear the blonde wigs. You don't have to wear the
extreme clothes, right? - No, it's certainly a choice. I don't like to be like everybody else. I've often made this statement that I would never stoop so
low as to be fashionable. That's the easiest thing
in the world to do. So I just decided that
I would do something that would at least get their attention. Once they got past the shock of the ridiculous way
I looked and all that, then they would see there was
parts of me to be appreciated. I'm very real where it counts, and that's inside, and as far as my outlook on life and the way I care about people and the way I care about myself and the things that I care about. But I just chose to do this, and show business is a money making joke. And I've just always liked telling jokes. - Though Walters says here, "You don't have to look like this." And this I obviously is not a question. It sounds like Walters
just wants to provoke Dolly and push her around in the conversation. That, yes, she tells Dolly
she's very beautiful. But that momentary compliment, came across as a way to
justify the other put downs. Saying, "You don't have
to look like this," is clearly what we call, a "One Up" move. Walters is attempting to
assert her dominance over Dolly in the conversation. She's playing the role of mother while giving Dolly what we
call, "unsolicited advice." The problem is for most
people in Dolly's situation, it would be very difficult to not reply with another "one up" comment. She could have easily said, for example, "Well, Barbara, you don't
have to look like this." That would be a "one up" move. But Dolly had the good
sense not to do that. I've noticed over the years that anytime a question and
answer scenario is happening, if you respond to a hostile question with a hostile response, you're the one that ends up looking bad. If the person answering the
question loses their composure, it's the only thing anybody remembers. But Dolly is smart enough to use what's called, a "One Across" move. That does not try to
control the other person. She just says and I'll paraphrase, "Yes, the way I look is exaggerated and this is entertainment. It's show business." But if people stick around, she says, "They'll see that I'm
very real where it counts, and that's inside." She's asserting herself but she's not trying to
put herself above Walters. And while Dolly is talking, this seems to be a rather
pleasant conversation. So, check plus for
Dolly for not escalating and another check minus
for Walters for trying. - But do you ever feel that you're a joke that people make fun of you? - Oh, I know they make fun of me. But, actually, over these years, the people has thought the joke was on me but it's actually been on the public. I know exactly what I'm doing and I can change it at any time, where I make more jokes
about myself than anybody because I enjoy, I know it. Like I said, I am sure
of myself as a person. I'm sure of my talent. And to me... And I'm sure of of my love and for life and that sort of thing. I'm very content. I like the kind of person that I am. So, I can afford to piddle
around and do-diddle around with makeups and clothes and stuff, because I am secure with myself. - This is a low point for Walters, asking somebody if they
feel like they're a joke. But Walters uses an open door, created by Dolly's last statement that this is show business, it's entertainment, and that she likes telling jokes. But imagine how you'd reply, if somebody asked you if
you ever felt like a joke. That would really throw most people off. And I was very impressed by how Dolly actually reached a high point and shined even brighter
here in the interview. So before I dissect this moment more, let's talk about the way questions work. In conversations, exchanging statements keeps the
conversation relatively open and statements can make
the conversation go in any direction. But questions instantly narrow
the focus of the conversation into a cone of possible responses. Questions don't force you
to answer in a certain way but they do constrain what you say next, because you're supposed
to sound reasonable and what you say is
supposed to be relevant to the conversation. So the more challenging the question, the more constraining that could feel. Given those constraints, Dolly handles this moment like a genius. She stays within that
narrow conversational cone that Walters' aggressive
question outlines, but she uses the "Agree
and Limit" technique to express herself in her own terms. I've heard people use
versions of this in sales, but Dolly uses it authentically. So first she agrees. She says, "Oh, I know
they make fun of me." So with that response, she's already diffused
most of the question, but then she limits the
scope of that agreement and gives her own
affirmative point of view. She replies that the
joke is on the critics. She says, "Look, I make jokes
about myself all the time because I'm sure of myself as a person." - I'm sure of my talent. I like the kind of person that I am. - This is my favorite
moment in the interview. And if I could just read
into this a little more, I think this is a not so indirect way that Dolly is also implying to Walters, the joke is also on you, Walters, because you have clearly underestimated this so called hillbilly. Dolly gets another check plus and Walters gets a double check minus for another low blow. The big takeaway lesson I get from this, is that even though
Walters took the low road on almost every single question, Dolly never took the bait. She always took the high road. And that's a great lesson for all of us. Anytime we're in a tough conversation, question and answer, interview, despite what the other person does, we can always strive to take the high road and speak in our own terms and tell our own story. Now, to be fair, I think Barbara Walters did
do some great interviews over the years, but this was not one of them. If you would like, I put a free PDF download for you in the description below on the seven instant tips to help you to become a more
confident public speaker. But what are your thoughts
about this interview? What did I miss here? And who else should I react to? There's a little more to the interview and I'll put a link to the original clip that I watched, below. And I look forward to
reading your comments below, take care.
